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#282 - Stephen Sondheim's Road Show

"You're the best thing that ever has happened to me..." Grab your con man schemes and changing motivations because this week we're diving into Sondheim's last (completed) show Road Show. This will dive into all the versions, so come join the fun... Read More

1 h 8 mins
Feb 1


"You're the best thing that ever has happened to me..." Grab your con man schemes and changing motivations because this week we're diving into Sondheim's last (completed) show Road Show. This will dive into all the versions, so come join the fun.


Hosts: Jesse McAnally & Andrew DeWolf

Podcast Edited By: Andrew DeWolf

Theme Songs: Robyn Nash of IOU Music UK

Keeper of the Cheese: Juliet Antonio

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00:06 - Jess (Host)

Hello, I'm Jesse McEnally.

00:08 - Andrew (Host)

And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

00:10 - Liz (Host)

And I'm Liz Eston.

00:12 - Jess (Host)

And welcome to Musicals With Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew and Liz to like musical theater. And today we're returning to the world of Sondheim because Andrew and I are going to go dig for gold and start Boko Ratone Florida.

00:29 - Andrew (Host)

Oh boy, Boko Ratone Are you?

00:31 - Liz (Host)

the widow in this allegory.

00:34 - Jess (Host)

Nope, you are a character that was very important in previous drafts and now just has a brief appearance and then disappears.

00:43 - Liz (Host)

That feels accurate to my life.

00:44 - Jess (Host)

yes, Um, yeah, I don't know what more to say. To give you a preamble for this. This show's weird, the show's very weird. Um, this week we are talking about Steven Sondheim's final completed show while he was alive Roadshow, or Bounce, or Wise Guys, or Gold Cue the music.

01:35 - Clip (Other)

You'll be right back. Don't delay.

01:39 - Clip (Other)

Bank a bar or hook on what may, to your sorrow you'll rule the day that you didn't say I wanna get rich quick Catch you hear the knocking, hear that sound. What is that? There's knocking all around.

01:49 - Andrew (Host)

That's opportunity knocking every property's prime and the views are so prime and the values just climb and climb and time and time and time, I thought Wise Guys was a different thing, written by a different person.

02:04 - Jess (Host)

That was written by Irving Berlin, but Soundtime took that and started working on that, so it was kind of the first version of it. So Roadshow, or Bounce, or Wise Guys or Gold, is a musical written by John Wideman, with music and lyrics by the one and only Stephen Soundtime, based on the adventures of Addison Meisner and Wilson Meisner. The show premiered in three different forms, none of them latching onto cultural zeitgeist and constantly being reworked. Today we're framing, based on the 2019 on-course production performed at New York City Center with Brandon Uranowitz and Raul Asparza. That played from July 24th to 27th of 2019. The plot of Roadshow is a larger than life account of two brothers, Schemer, Wilson Meisner and his more thoughtful sibling, Addison, who are fueled by a modest inheritance to stake their claim on a piece of the world. So here's where it's gonna get complicated. It's gonna be another one of those. Jesse's gonna talk a lot early on and then I'm gonna try to shut up later. Is that cool with you guys? Okay?

03:12 - Liz (Host)

Go for it, man.

03:14 - Andrew (Host)

Whatever you need to do.

03:15 - Jess (Host)

This is probably one of the more complicated musicals in Soundtime's history, just because of the hundreds of variations of it.


So, this is kind of based on the 1952 book the Last Resorts, which began as a musical project by Soundtime After the publication of the legendary Meisner's in 1953, he took from Irving Berlin's original attempt to make this musical and try to make it his own and then dropped it for many years. So he started. He started with it calling the wise guys in the 50s. He took a lot of them and then kind of dropped it and a lot of the songs he originally had for that would go on to like trunk tunes and not really be anything he would use. Many years later he worked for the first time with Hal Prince. So the first time he worked with Hal Prince since their breakup in Merrily he worked on it when it was titled Bounce. In this version he expanded Wilson's wife to a secondary lead named Nelly and they kind of got a bunch of songs in there, including the best thing that's ever happened to me, a love song between Nelly and Wilson. It's really cute, really well received song.


But this show just didn't hit. No one really liked it. People were like it's got flaws, it's very long and basically it stops becoming about the brothers at a certain point and becomes more about the relationship with the mother became more about the relationship with the wife and it just became a little, a little emotionally vague, a little distant. So then comes 2008, when they re-re-redu it as Roadshow. He added a couple of new songs, including one that sets up the emotional core of the show, called Brotherly Love, trying to emphasize the relationship of the two brothers, and the song best thing that ever happened was taken away from Nelly and Wilson and given to Addison and a new character, nelly, who did not exist in previous versions and is now overtly a homosexual, where it was only hinted at in previous versions. They also then took it a very long to act musical, shortened it down to one act and made it strictly about the brothers and their relationship, with little alternative character points.


And Nelly, who was a third lead in previous versions, has one scene in this version, and this is the one that I made you guys watch today. But for me I watched both Bounce and tried to find as much as I could of Wise Guys, and Bounce has a lot of good things in it. But I see why it didn't work. I see entirely why it didn't work. But there is some gold in there, no pun intended, that I wish would have gotten into the final version, but we're here to talk about that. So Roadshow in its final form. What did you all think of it?

06:26 - Andrew (Host)

I actually kind of liked it. I'm going to be honest, I mean I'm a sucker for these con men type stories and I just kind of found the whole thing kind of interesting and the music kind of works and is a bit lighter than what I feel like Sondheim sometimes does and I'm a fan of Sondheim's more comedic songwriting. So Did you feel this is more of?

06:59 - Jess (Host)

a direct comedy.

07:02 - Andrew (Host)

I don't know if it's a direct comedy, but I feel like it is definitely lighter than some of his stuff. I mean, this isn't like a passion or something like that.

07:14 - Jess (Host)

No, that being said, I find that interesting because other versions were very broad vaudevillian comedies trying to ape off of, like the Road 2 movies, like the Road 2, blah, blah, blah, the big movie kind of films. Yeah, that was also aping on the Road 2 movies. Like that is a, it would have been a lot like that, and this is supposed to be the serious, dramatic one.

07:39 - Andrew (Host)

Okay, well, it's not that serious. No, it isn't.

07:46 - Jess (Host)

What about you, Liz? What did you think of it?

07:50 - Liz (Host)

It's fine, like nothing about it, like blew me away. I like this. The songs I really enjoyed, I just think like the plot, I kind of got lost at times with like how quick it was going and like certain aspects of it.

08:06 - Jess (Host)


08:07 - Liz (Host)

Like I was legit looking at the plot story while watching it to make sure I got the order correct of what was going on. It was like okay, but I like the brotherly dynamic, Like it's a good core to it. I wish the only other woman with a speaking role wasn't like a joke character.


Or the mom you know, or the mom, but she dies early on. So like, thus pointless for the end. So it's like I enjoyed it enough, though Like it's Sondheim. I know I say this usually we cover Sondheim stuff, but it's like it's Sondheim. There's always an inherent like the songs are always great. Like you can't knock the songs.

08:48 - Andrew (Host)

I think that the relationship between the two brothers was really fun and sad at the same time, and I've really I found these characters interesting enough that I actually looked up the real versions and I looked up the real life people and wanted to know more.

09:11 - Jess (Host)

If you could describe the plot of this musical, Andrew, how would you? Okay?

09:18 - Andrew (Host)

there's two brothers. They're going out to get the gold and the gold rush and they find some gold. But one of the brothers is just like oh, you found gold on this lot. I'm going to sell the lot instead of looking for more gold because that's easier. And then he buys a saloon. But the other brother is like pissed off about it. He does not want to run a saloon. So he takes half his money and goes and invests in a bunch of stuff that all fails and then moves back in with his mom. The saloon fails too. So that guy moves to New York City as well.


And the brother Wilson, who is the more scammy like easy road brother. He just works his way up to the top in New York City doing all sorts of sleazy and scammy stuff. But it doesn't work out well for him and it ruins his relationship with his brother who is trying to be an architect. So that brother who's trying to be the architect moves to Florida because there's a land boom going on there and he starts kind of scamming people, although he actually doesn't. He's selling houses to rich people in Florida. So he's making a shit ton of money. And his scam brother shows up and is like what if we opened a town and we called it Boga Raton? And they start trying to do that and the scam brother is the one marketing it and he starts lying like crazy and it doesn't work. And then they die.

11:13 - Jess (Host)

Brilliant, I mean that is what happens.


Honestly, that is as accurate as it can. So in comparison to Sondheim's other work with John Wideman Pacific Overtures and Assassins I think this goes dead in the center of why the fuck would that be a musical? So Pacific Overtures about, like you know, the westernization of Japan, that sounds like a weird ass idea for musical Somehow it works. The other one about the random assassination attempts on every president, that is a weird idea for a musical. Somehow it works. Roadshow that's the premise of that, this show. Still I don't know if it works.

11:59 - Andrew (Host)

I think it does, I think it works. I'm gonna stick my neck out for this one. I had fun with Roadshow. I thought it was a good time.

12:09 - Jess (Host)

I think it's rough. I think it needs a lot of work, but sadly Sondheim isn't there for to fix it. I put out a tweet asking other people what they thought of Roadshow. What do you think the consensus was, andrew.

12:25 - Andrew (Host)

I think that, similar to the frogs, people are sleeping on this otherwise good show.

12:31 - Jess (Host)

There's a lot of people that say they absolutely love it, our good friend, brent Black, said I listened to it a few years back. I don't remember the details well, but it didn't do much for me. It felt completely generic. I heard Sondheim actually fell in love for the first time while writing this Makes me wonder if it made him lose his edge. I disagree with you, brent. I think that having happiness in your life does not affect your art in any way. Happy people make just as much good art as sad people.

12:58 - Andrew (Host)

This is a myth that dates back to fucking Beethoven. Please stop. Exactly, yes.

13:03 - Jess (Host)

However, someone named J Bliss replied to Brent with something I think is more of a critique. That, I think, is better. My professor was in the original production, believe it or not. She said the biggest problem is that if you asked the people behind the table what it was about, they would each give a different answer. Now that one, I think, is probably the source.

13:24 - Liz (Host)

My favorite response to your thread. That was the gift of someone who just posted a gift saying I can fix him. Yes and that was the only response.

13:33 - Andrew (Host)


13:33 - Jess (Host)

And that is also fair.

13:36 - Andrew (Host)

Which character can they fix?

13:38 - Jess (Host)

I think they're talking about the show. You're the showy-chatter, I think that's it. I think the most honest depiction of the issues with this are not in the songs, it is not in the music. I honestly think in between Bounce Roadshow and Wise Guys there is some all-time great bangers in them. Sondheim is working his ass off to characterize these men in a very effective empathetic way. The book is not good. The book is not meeting the songs at the level that they're presented at and therefore the whole thing kind of falls apart. There is no real emotional catharsis here and it got. It used to be so complicated, so weird. Until now it's broken down to almost two-dimensional and we're speed racing to the end of the story.

14:32 - Andrew (Host)

Yeah, I kind of like that. There's no emotional catharsis, though, it's just sometimes you scam your whole life and then you die. And then, when you're dead, you just are like, well, maybe next time.

14:47 - Jess (Host)

That is basically the last line to this show is we'll get it next time, or something like that.

14:54 - Liz (Host)

That's the last thing from the Curtin Closes.

14:56 - Andrew (Host)

If you keep doing it, eventually we'll get it right, is what they said.

15:00 - Jess (Host)

That is also what I would say to the writers of this If you keep putting on this show and keep fixing it, eventually you'll get it right.

15:07 - Andrew (Host)

But I feel like that's a deeply human thing, where it's just like sometimes you fuck up and you fuck up and you fuck up, and then you fuck up, and then you fuck up, and then you fuck up, and then you're dead and it's like well, you know the Ben Shapiro story.

15:25 - Jess (Host)

I do appreciate the fact that the this is one of the few musicals of late-sond time life I have not seen. Here we Are Yet. I've heard interesting things about it. We'll probably cover that sooner rather than later. I would like to. But as far as this and passion goes, his later career things seem to be between two people almost unrequited, like a complex loving relationship at the core and not much else to the sides, whereas a lot of his early work is very plot-based Sweeney Todd, west Side Story, merrily, it's very plot-based. Yeah, there's character stuff here. The main emotional drive is the character work and the emotion at the dead center and not much the actual plot and actions happening, and I find that fascinating.

16:19 - Andrew (Host)

Do you think that that's a critique, like, do you think that doesn't work? No, no, no, no.

16:22 - Jess (Host)

That is just an analysis of his later work. I think it's in its best form in the current 2019 production, specifically like the new songs like Brotherly Love and Isn't he Something those kind of things really bring him in. Specifically, in the previous productions, the mother character really did not like Wilson at all. She seemed very against Wilson. So having that kind of Brotherly Competition mixed with love made it a lot more complicated, and I really do. It was been interesting watching the development of this show to its final form and I understand why every choice was made, but I don't know. I feel like this would either work as the 90-minute version or you include everything and it's a four-hour play.

17:17 - Andrew (Host)

Can I be that guy for a second?

17:19 - Jess (Host)


17:20 - Andrew (Host)

Just a moment. You know what this really reminds me of. What Better Call Saul?

17:30 - Jess (Host)

Yes, I see it. I see your vision.

17:33 - Andrew (Host)

It is the first three seasons of Better Call Saul Sollen.

17:38 - Jess (Host)


17:39 - Andrew (Host)

Yeah, which, to be frank, is some of the best TV ever made. Agreed, we don't get a chicanery moment, but we get some stuff that comes close and I just feel like that's the vibe that I've got from it and that's I just kind of like that. I don't know.

18:01 - Jess (Host)

You see you were into the Brotherly stuff. I really got invested when we introduced Hollis.

18:08 - Andrew (Host)

Really I felt like Hollis was like a nothing side character.

18:12 - Jess (Host)

I love Hollis. Yeah, I would hate to have done that.

18:14 - Andrew (Host)

No, you're all wrong. I mean, I think Hollis is funny.

18:18 - Liz (Host)

Yeah, I like Hollis as a character. I think for the plot he just kind of exists to cause conflict with the brothers. He doesn't have a personality.

18:27 - Andrew (Host)

What I actually do like is that it shows how much the brothers actually cared for each other, because it's very clear that I believe it's Was it Addison or something like that. Was that his name? Addison is the one who was gay. Yeah, yeah, addison. I don't know if it's real life, it's debated, but Addison did genuinely love Hollis, but when shit hit the fan he threw that under the bus to help his brother, you know yeah.

19:00 - Jess (Host)

It was an interesting situation to put him in and narratively it felt fulfilled. But it felt fulfilled for me because I believed in their relationship just as much as I believed in the brothers.

19:12 - Andrew (Host)

So I don't know. I just feel like there's a lot of stuff in here that I just really liked and maybe I just Maybe there's just I'm relating to something here that other people that you aren't. I don't know, I'm not sure why.

19:25 - Jess (Host)

I'm not a scam artist, so I don't dislike this at all, like let me just put it like this, I would put this above a lot of, sometimes other musicals and would I don't know where it would fall on your list, andrew.

19:39 - Andrew (Host)

But I don't do that.

19:40 - Jess (Host)

It would be fairly up there. It would probably be slightly above company Interesting, like as far as my list goes which. I don't think I've ever done it to your list of Sondheim. Maybe one day when we get to the end. But I do kind of want to analyze the historical liberties and how the short of the show got and the further the development went on, the further away from real life it got.

20:08 - Andrew (Host)

It is essentially fiction from what I can tell, yes. It's just like incredibly loosely based on real people and uses their names.

20:19 - Jess (Host)

In Sondheim's own justification. His inspiration came from the legendary Meisners by Alva Johnson and he described it as an exaggerated biography and he acknowledged that they were a fanciful reporter. They wanted to maintain that tone, basically adapting that report rather than their lives itself. So Hollis in this version did not exist in real life. There was a real guy named Paris Singer who they didn't want to misrepresent or have his family sue them, so they created a fake character. They also had other siblings and a lot bigger family that were in previous versions that they cut out just to kind of make it more about the brothers. The father was successful and had a big career and Wilson's New York period was expanded a lot more and it just kind of is a cute little seed in this. He didn't want to. Sondheim addressed this by saying he didn't want to shortchange the emotional death by including interesting and irrelevant information. He wanted to really focus on the emotions in the final version and I think that is the right call to make.

21:35 - Andrew (Host)

I think part of what I do like about this as well is it is very concise. I think it being a one act is perfect. I think that it gives you everything you need and they don't have any extra details. They don't have any extra characters, which I think is big. Did you know that the Grand Floridian at Disney World used to have a Meisner cafe?

22:09 - Jess (Host)

No, that is hilarious, but I think we should go into our favorite segment of the show, Breathe U's, where we compare several views of the development of this show. One of the great things about the New York Times is they will see anything and they will have a living document of how things have changed.

22:33 - Liz (Host)

It's time for previews. It's time for previews, so.

22:40 - Jess (Host)

Andrew, why don't you read the first review from Mr Ben Brantley? This is a truncated review from the November 1st 2003 publishing.

22:49 - Andrew (Host)

Okay, alright, so this is of bounce. Apparently, no reviews of wise guys, if there was ever a performance of that.

22:59 - Jess (Host)

I don't think it was ever properly performed.

23:02 - Andrew (Host)

Or gold, whatever that was.

23:05 - Jess (Host)

I think that was just a brief period, very, very brief.

23:09 - Clip (Other)


23:12 - Andrew (Host)

I genuinely don't understand the name bounce, but that's probably why they got rid of it.

23:17 - Jess (Host)

There used to be a song in this show about how you'd bounce back.

23:21 - Andrew (Host)

Ah, okay.

23:22 - Liz (Host)

That kind of makes sense.

23:24 - Andrew (Host)

Alright, ben Brantley, what do you have to say? Life unfolds like a roadmap, neatly creased and popping with place names, and popping with place names in bounce. The singing itinerary of a show from Stephen Sondheim that opened on Thursday night at the Kennedy Center, okay, yet somehow bounce, directed by the mighty Harold Prince, never seems to leave its starting point. The map lies tantalizingly before you, its roots and destination smarked in bright colors, but it remains a wistful diagram. Rarely closer to the three dimensions than its outside, than the outsize, my goodness, what is he trying to say here? Rarely closer to three dimensions than the outsize, hand-tinted tourist postcards that frame the set.

24:18 - Jess (Host)

It's a classic Ben Brantley overly done metaphor that no one can quite understand or unpack.

24:25 - Andrew (Host)

I literally I didn't know where he was going, so I didn't even properly read the sentence the first time. Okay, it should go without saying that bounce is a big deal, being the first complete new show in nine years from the reigning genius of the American musical, and it arrives at a moment when the form is starved for the substance and inventiveness with which Mr Sondheim has always nourished it. The bounce in bounce is never very high. It's more like a close to the floor dribble by a basketball player stalling for time. Is that a thing they do in basketball? I don't think it is no.

25:03 - Liz (Host)

You run down the clock. Basketball. That's actually illegal Most of the time. I mean it's legal, but you have to have it a certain height or you'll get whistled at.

25:14 - Jess (Host)

Ben Brantley knows just as much about basketball as the writers of Damn Yankees knew about baseball Nothing.

25:22 - Andrew (Host)

I know what it looks like.

25:25 - Liz (Host)

I know you bounce the ball, do you do it? You do it. Different heights to play basketball.

25:29 - Andrew (Host)

I just bounce it really low and they wouldn't be able to take it from me. It's only. But his extraordinary gift for stealthily weaving dark motifs into a brighter musical fabric is definitely in evidence. Melifluously.

25:49 - Jess (Host)


25:50 - Andrew (Host)

Brantley, you can't just do that. Why is that there?

25:55 - Liz (Host)

I'm googling the word.

25:56 - Andrew (Host)

Rendered in the pureless Jonathan Tunik's orchestrations.

26:02 - Liz (Host)

Okay, melifluous means sweet or smoothly flowing.

26:09 - Jess (Host)

I just imagine Ben Brantley with his thesaurus and a typewriter. Couldn't you have written, smoothly rendered into Andrew People might understand what he's trying to say.

26:22 - Andrew (Host)

Hang on, let me get my dictionary for the Ben Brantley review Hang on. Got to be able to reference these words. What does that one mean? Alright, god forbid. You could just understand what someone's trying to say when they review a fucking musical.

26:36 - Jess (Host)

It's been a good long while since we had a Ben Brantley little cat.

26:41 - Andrew (Host)

More often, though, you wind up feeling that all the time spent on bounce has worn his customary sheen to a duller, more dutiful finish. It is the craftsman who dominates bounce. Since the composer has set such extraordinarily high standards for himself and everyone who has followed him, it's impossible not to regret the absence of the artist.

27:08 - Jess (Host)

That's an interesting review. Like we're making fun of it, but it is an interesting review because basically he said he's become too far up his own ass to actually create. It is more or less what he's trying to say there.

27:21 - Andrew (Host)

I don't know if. Well, I didn't see bounce, so I'll ignore it.

27:27 - Jess (Host)

I will say it is a little bit more show off-y in the lyrics. I think he rhymes under there with pubic hair or something like that. There is some like I'm trying to show off that. I still got it. I love that. And Richard Kind, as I'm trying to get the name right, is it? It's not Addison.

27:47 - Liz (Host)

Addison, yes.

27:48 - Andrew (Host)

It is Addison.

27:50 - Liz (Host)

Addison and Wilson Meisner.

27:53 - Jess (Host)

Richard Kind was Addison and he's wonderful but plays it much more pathetic, a lot more kind of sad. There's a wonderful video of Richard Kind at 54 Below, describing his experience in singing a song that has been since cut. Andrew, play a little bit of that here if you could. We've been through a lot, we've learned how to bounce.

28:23 - Clip (Other)

As Papa would say, you're hot and you're not. You'd better learn to bounce. If something gets wrong, that's alright, bounce along, just travel light. You go on the track, don't look back, that's the thing that counts. You hit a few bumps, you make a few gaps, you learn how to bounce, you take a few lumps, you have a few lefts and although while you bounce, don't dwell on the times that you fail, remember the times when you still find a new road For a new trail bounce.

29:15 - Jess (Host)

It's great. It is fascinating to hear about that production. It didn't work. It is very showy. I wonder if it premiered now as its own musical on Broadway, would I appreciate it more, just because we don't have anything like that anymore? Would it even survive against a six or a Mrs Douthfire, the musical how about I do? The next New York Times review from Ben Brantley of Roadshow in 2008. This is a Trunkator review from November 19, 2008 with a title Brothers in Flim Flammery on a Continental Sojourn.


It's raining greenbacks in Roadshow, the latest version of Stephen Sondheim and John Wideman's long, long-aborting, ever-evolving and eternally slender musical about the curdled American dreams. And with those ominous rumbles of thunder and punctuating the show, you don't have to look hard to see a timely metaphor for an economic boom Gone bust. But the show's greatest interest for fans of Mr Sondheim lies in seeing how what was once meant to be a light and Boy and Fair has been reshaped into something more somber. The picturesque work clearly has a lot in common with its central characters, inspired by two real entrepreneurial brothers who demonstrate a tireless gift for reinventing themselves. But the rethinking that has turned Bounce into Roadshow has also involved condensation and rewriting. By the show's end they are rung out red-eyed cocaine snorting wrecks.


Mr Cerberus brings a dangerous, feral charm to Wilson, who comes across as part weasel, part vaudevillian huckster, while Mr Geminiani has a sweet transparency of mine and voice here that makes Addison in this affecting. As the show allows. The bulk of Roadshow continues to be extend expository musical numbers that trace the brothers' travel schemes and metamorphoses In Assassins. Mr Sondheim and Mr Wideman create a gallery of historical figures who existed as American archetypes and also frustrated, lonely individuals, piercing emotional resonance. Like its leading characters, roadshow doesn't quite know what to do with the riches at its disposal. Basically, he says it's really confused. I don't get it.

31:28 - Liz (Host)

Been the wordiest way possible.

31:31 - Jess (Host)

He is not a concise man, ben Bramley.

31:36 - Andrew (Host)

He's paid by the word, you know.

31:38 - Liz (Host)

Yeah, true.

31:40 - Jess (Host)

How do we feel about that, considering we now have context for what that would become and what he thought of Bounce?

31:45 - Liz (Host)

I'm still trying to figure out what he thought of Bounce, because of all the words he used.

31:49 - Andrew (Host)

I don't feel like I agree with him, but I guess I don't know if I could put that into words. I don't know if I have like an argument against him.

31:57 - Jess (Host)

I think he's just like man I want it better. I think that's basically what the review of the last two both reviews basically are. Liz, would you be willing to take a look at Jesse Green's review from 2019 of Roadshow?

32:10 - Liz (Host)

I would be thrilled to read your time's review on this lovely podcast.

32:14 - Jess (Host)

Hell yeah, what do we got?

32:16 - Liz (Host)

Okay, so this one, jesse Green, is written in July 25th 2019. It's called Sondheim's Bumpy Roadshow. Now at the end of the line.

32:26 - Jess (Host)

Nice thing to say a year before a guy dies.

32:29 - Liz (Host)

Yeah, yeah, it's a bit bad. Jesse Green, come on, man. There are a lot of fingerprints on Roadshow, even beyond the ones that grub everyday musicals. Fans of Mr Sondheim, who, as a songwriter but also a drama dramatist, has done more to reshape the musical than any other artist, fear that this may be the end of the line. The genius glints through, of course. Still in evidence everywhere is the way he packs insights about human nature into tight coils of words that spring open like pen knives. But such moments, however they but such moments, however they may glint, emerge from a story that has become something of a what the hell?

33:16 - Jess (Host)


33:17 - Liz (Host)

Palimpset. Oh my god, put your thesaurus away in your times.

33:22 - Jess (Host)

Palimpset and does something of a blur A manuscript or piece of writing material on which the original writing has been affected to make room for a writing later. Okay, that's actually a good word. Okay, that's a very effective word.

33:34 - Liz (Host)

Okay, I'll give you that to a secret. His first instinct, though, is a good one. He frames the story as a radio drama, with actors in a recording studio speaking into mics and making their own sound effects, though there are charming moments throughout, especially when Addison finds his non fraternal love in the form of a rich dilaton.

33:55 - Jess (Host)


33:56 - Liz (Host)

Hollis Bessemer. The exogencies of staging the picturesque tale overwhelm our interest in it. What ultimately undermines Roadshow is the sense that diminishing is, that is, that sense of diminishing rather than increasing returns. In Roadshow, the portrait of America as a contest between inept dreamers and expert scammers is the whole story, relentlessly repeated. Mr Sondheim is not only one of the theatre's greatest artists, he is one of its greatest collaborators. What a shame that so much beautiful material was dropped like excess baggage along the way. And yet if he had the slightest sense of shame, it would be shame even here, even now, Isn't he something?

34:43 - Jess (Host)

I think that's one of the more fair reviews. Yeah, I think that he watched the same production. We did the exact same one, same cast and everything. I think this is a pretty objective, pretty well respected, smart review, and I think describing it as a palimpset is probably one of the most effective descriptions of Roadshow, where you're just rewriting on the manuscript to add different things.

35:13 - Liz (Host)

I was pretty middle on it, but I think there's a lot of good in here that is worth discussing.

35:18 - Jess (Host)

I would say there's some of Sondheim's absolute best work in this, and we can talk a little bit about that when we talk about the songs. Until then, let's go on to a mid-show. Hey guys, I'm sorry to tell you this, but this show is brought to you by extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. I don't know if you know this and this might be controversial to say, but Patreon is this place where you can get cool content from us that isn't released anywhere else as well. You get a full Discord chat with all alike-minded people, and I share bootlegs on there that no one else gets. I feel like I don't promote that enough, but I do that a lot. It's just a cool place to hang out, and you could be on there too by joining our Patreon. Andrew, who's on our Patreon, right?

36:13 - Andrew (Host)

now. Oh man, our Patreon is filled to the brim, so give me 15-20 minutes to read these names. Our current patrons are Melissa Goldman, danielle Renix, jesses Stampede, leela Arjadariga, julia McLennon, bjorn Hermans, toriana Frazier, nathaniel Sacy-Tomb, mary Lou Chouquette, john Vanals, russ Walker, musical Hell, sammy, the Adequate of Mount Jacobson, kaylee Blazier, cinemageddon Reviews Villanus, miss Sofina, ali the Omega Geek, paige Pearson, maddie Wargl, eliza Erdman, anilos Katova, sarah Den Blaker, evan Ball, zachary Torres, rora Marasso, mara Forloin, emily Gracie, kyle Summers, jenae C Scootin' the Technicolor Dreamcoat, lisa L, possessed Washing Machine. Nick Roten, puffy Boy, sydney Hicks, anna Bell, billy Clifton, andrew Wright, the Boos Kaboom, gold-plated, kiki Mora, julia Baldr's Daughter and Hut-Mut-Butt.

37:40 - Jess (Host)

They all give us some money to help us keep the lights on, to help us keep us working and getting musicals and getting access to things and repairing things and being able to work Basically. We're so grateful for them and we love them with all of our hearts. Give each one a kiss. Alright, let's get back to the show. So here's where I'm going to be a little useless. I've listened to so much of this show in the past couple of days that a lot of the songs have blurred together and I don't quite remember which one belongs to which version. I'm sorry to say that the conceit of this show is basically the brothers are being tortured by their father, who just keeps reminding them things periodically throughout their lives, and the first real song about the brothers comes in brotherly love.

38:38 - Clip (Other)

Are you sorry we came, willie, yes, sorry we came. Yes, no, go to sleep At midnight with everyone down at the lake To take in the fireworks show, oh yeah, I cried till I fell half asleep by mistake and I snuck upstairs and I shook you awake. You bundled me up in a couple of quilts and you carried me up all the way to the roof and that slippery patch. Yeah, we nearly got killed, but we got to see everything and broke the whispers.

39:36 - Clip (Other)

We had lots of good times.

39:43 - Jess (Host)

I love this song. It is so cute. It's so beautiful On the stage it is very like they are holding on to each other deeply. It is Unlike any other kind of song like there's not many fraternal love songs In musical theater and I think it's really effective and funny.

40:02 - Andrew (Host)

Just bros bring in bros. I'm surprised that this song wasn't in any of the earlier ones.

40:08 - Liz (Host)

This was added. That's really good.

40:10 - Andrew (Host)


40:12 - Jess (Host)

It was written specifically for this, because they really wanted to highlight this connection, this love, because they weren't really the focus of any other version. The final version of Roach shows the one that's like oh, brothers, first.

40:26 - Andrew (Host)

You know, and this is the one that I really connected with Must be because I don't have any brothers.

40:33 - Jess (Host)

I just like how. It's one of the best things about Soundtime. There's a famous quote where he's like you tell me to write a love song, I don't know what the fuck to do. If you tell me there's a girl that just got jilted in a red dress and drinking a martini at a bar at 5am, Then I have something to talk about. There's specific things I can work off of here. He's working on so many specific things, like describing whiz bangs and describing the quilts and the specific memories of these brothers, that I think it's just one of those things that Soundtime does better than almost anyone else.

41:08 - Andrew (Host)

Yeah, I think this is a very good song and it really describes all the themes that I like the most in the show, so I'm happy it's here.

41:20 - Jess (Host)

Well then, we should probably talk about the game. Okay, this is basically Wilson's big song where he his I Am song about how he's gonna play. He's gonna cheat wherever he can, he's gonna gamble. He's gonna do all this His view of life.

41:42 - Andrew (Host)

Yeah, Wilson is, he's Saul Goodman.

41:50 - Liz (Host)

I haven't seen better call cells. Though, any revans you make, I will not get.

41:54 - Andrew (Host)


41:56 - Jess (Host)

I mean, listen to some of these lyrics. The thing that matters is the game, more than just the winning. It's the game, the moment when the card is turned and nothing is the same. The only thing that matters is the game. Like, that is summing up what Wilson's gonna do every step of the way for the rest of the show.

42:11 - Andrew (Host)

He's kind of a gambling addict, like not even just in the sense that he actually probably does gamble, but like he takes big risks he'll win and then he'll continue to take big risks and lose.

42:27 - Jess (Host)

And we pair this up next to like the mom singing about. Isn't he something where he's just? She's holding Wilson up to this high standard of he's wonderful, and I love him, Even though he's fucking up so hard at every turn.

42:43 - Liz (Host)

I think the mother. He's using a rich lady's money just to gamble.

42:46 - Andrew (Host)

I think the mother just sees him as exciting, which is interesting, and it's also kind of just a thing that's also in better call saw, I'm sorry.

43:02 - Jess (Host)

Do you think that the writers, vince Gilligan, watched Roadshow and was like I'm gonna use?

43:07 - Andrew (Host)

this. I'm gonna use this. I'm kind of like thinking the scene where the mother dies is like it's in better call. Saw that scene exists in the show.

43:21 - Jess (Host)

It's like well shit.

43:22 - Andrew (Host)

They must have seen it Vince Gilligan.

43:27 - Jess (Host)

Did you watch Roadshow?

43:28 - Liz (Host)

Are you a Steven Sondheim fan? I'm trying to find an interview where he might mention Roadshow.

43:35 - Andrew (Host)

I swear there's no way he would mention it.

43:39 - Liz (Host)

Yeah, there's no concrete evidence of him saying I watched Roadshow and I wrote better call saw.

43:44 - Andrew (Host)

I'm not making this up. There is literally a scene in better call saw where the mother dies and the good brother, who doesn't like do all the crazy shit, is sitting in the room by her side, and then the bad brother, who's always and the mother is, dies and is like where's the bad brother? I like the bad brother better. And then the bad brother shows up and he's like oh my god, she's died, okay.

44:11 - Liz (Host)

Does the bad brother sell Goodman?

44:12 - Andrew (Host)


44:13 - Liz (Host)

Okay, that's my thought. This is why I get sometimes just you and Jess explaining TV shows to me I haven't seen.

44:21 - Andrew (Host)

Now Colombo. You know what I'm talking about, though, right, Jess?

44:24 - Jess (Host)

Yes, I do.

44:24 - Andrew (Host)

I'm not crazy.

44:27 - Jess (Host)

Now we gotta move away from the brothers because two of Sondheim's most famous, most covered songs ever are in this show Really, and we're gonna talk about the first one. First one is Talents, sung by Hollis.

44:44 - Clip (Other)

When I was a tyke, I said what I like is art. I know I'm a boy, but what I enjoy is art Looking at paintings, going to plays, music and books, informing my days, filling my mind, flooding my heart with art. I had this dream of becoming an artist, a painter, a poet, who knows? I had a nice little talent for drawing and a natural feeling for prose. I even began to compose. So many talents, wasn't I blessed? All of them good, a few of them better, none of them best, just enough talent to know that I hadn't the talent. So I put my dream and my self-esteem to rest.

45:37 - Jess (Host)

I've heard this song so many times before even seeing the show. It's one of those things where I'm like I know it's from something and it's a great song. It feels like it should be an I Want song. In a weird way it feels like it's an I Want song for a musical that doesn't exist and never happens.

45:55 - Andrew (Host)

So who's done? Covers of this.

45:57 - Jess (Host)

I remember it being in side by side by Sondheim or Sondheim on Sondheim as well as just look up Sondheim, you'll find 50 Twinks singing the song. I'm on it, a lot of people. It is a very well-known audition song. It's one that not everyone pulls out, so when you pull it out, you seem like, oh, what a deep pull. Oh my gosh, it is like one of those underground audition songs that I've heard so many fucking times.

46:31 - Andrew (Host)

So it's not underground anymore.

46:33 - Jess (Host)

No, it's basically become a cliche to use the song.

46:37 - Andrew (Host)

This is the song that you use when you want to look deep, but you're not deep exactly.

46:43 - Jess (Host)

I just love the idea of this person saying I love art, I want to be an artist, but I have no talent that is basically the summary of the song. And that's a clever idea.

46:52 - Andrew (Host)

It is such a clever idea it's, it's, it's clever and I love that. He's trying to start a Artist like commune, essentially like that's just what he's trying to do. I have one of those in Saratoga right down the street. It's called fucking. Oh my god, I can't even remember what the fuck it's called, but it's like a big place with a bunch of gardens and it's a huge mansion that a bunch of artists just live in.

47:18 - Jess (Host)

I like that. That is basically what Betty wanted to make and rent, and we're supposed to see him as the villain.

47:24 - Andrew (Host)

It's true.

47:27 - Liz (Host)

Also, I really realize that he's describing the entire premise of the team 10 house, where he's in charge of everything, gets a good chunk of the money, but they make art. Yep, but art is vlogs in the team 10 house case. So he just he invented the content house before it was a trend.

47:45 - Jess (Host)

Hollis, it wanted to make the the tiktok trend.

47:48 - Liz (Host)

I love the hype house.

47:51 - Jess (Host)

Honestly, can we do a reiteration of roadshow about a tiktok house? I Love it.

47:58 - Liz (Host)

Influencers means most of them make terrible music, so like they can try to sing.

48:04 - Andrew (Host)

The team 10 house is that doesn't exist anymore, right? No, it's gone.

48:07 - Liz (Host)

It's been gone for years, but that was like the thank. God content house. That was like on yeah, and. Then the hype house happened and there's like a bunch of branch spin-offs of the bunch of guys who were like shirtless all the time.

48:19 - Andrew (Host)

Can you imagine living next to the team 10 house Like, oh my god you you must have the worst. Karen, you must have wanted to sell your home at every moment. You're just like, all right, maybe it's time, maybe I'm gone.

48:38 - Jess (Host)


48:38 - Liz (Host)

I looked up the song in YouTube. I only found guys who kind of look like twig singing it. That's what I say.

48:45 - Jess (Host)

That being said, the second most famous song Sondheim wrote is in the show, and that is the best thing that has ever happened.

49:19 - Clip (Other)

They say we all find love. I never bought it. I never thought it would happen to me. You are the goddamn, this thing that has happened to me Ever. When did I have this much happiness happen to me? Never. I can't believe my luck and all I can do Is be the best thing that's happened to me.

50:05 - Jess (Host)

I mean this is a great duet. Sondheim doesn't write many romantic songs like can you think of His most famous romance song is unworthy of your love about John Hinckley singing to Jody Foster can we call that a romance song?

50:25 - Andrew (Host)

I would say that's an anti-romance song almost. It's literally a. It's a stalker song.

50:30 - Liz (Host)

It is number five on Jess's top five Sondheim battle that you can currently watch on YouTube.

50:35 - Jess (Host)

Yep, it's plug, plug, plug. I do that one's not getting as many downloads as the pattern songs, the better.

50:41 - Liz (Host)

I'm blue up recently, I don't know what the fuck happened.

50:44 - Jess (Host)

That's fucking. That's weird. But I think that ever has happened is so famous, like so famous that, like celebrities have performed it. Yes, I am setting this up. Would you believe Barbara Streisand and Alec Baldwin would sing this together?

51:01 - Liz (Host)

Okay, just get to the Alec of it all. I don't I know how Barb sings.

51:04 - Jess (Host)

I hate that album because it's just a bunch of Celebrities singing along with Barbara Streisand and they sound horrendous. Daisy Ridley, melissa McCarthy.

51:14 - Liz (Host)

Daisy Ridley.

51:18 - Jess (Host)

It was written for Nelly and Wilson in the original version and it is now for Wilson and Addison, or sorry, not Wilson and Addison, wilson and Hollis, and it is so much better so much Addison Hollis.

51:34 - Liz (Host)

God damn, wilson is the gambling one.

51:36 - Jess (Host)

I've had a long day. It is between Addison and Hollis and I think it is wonderful. I think it is so perfect here. It is such a cute song and it lives up to the hype and it fits well in the story and it might be the one like positive romantic song in Sondheim's uvra Aside from not a day goes by, but that starts as a divorce song. So I don't think that counts.

52:04 - Liz (Host)

Hey divorces can be positive.

52:07 - Jess (Host)

It's about not a day goes by and you won't leave, and it's just a genuinely good song based on character interaction it's.

52:15 - Andrew (Host)

It's a genuine straightforward song and it's it's like Looking back on the song. It's almost tragic too because of what happens later in the show.

52:24 - Jess (Host)

But perfect song. Honestly no notes.

52:27 - Andrew (Host)

We got to go see the Addison stuff at Boca Raton. Apparently there's still some buildings left that they built.

52:33 - Jess (Host)

I Would, I would love to. I would love that we should do a Florida trip and then write it off on our taxes.

52:40 - Andrew (Host)

Yeah, florida is the best state because it was started by scam artists and it's now run by scam artists.

52:49 - Jess (Host)

Who are losing the presidency to a man who's about to get indicted.

52:52 - Andrew (Host)

Hey, I saw a video where he won a participation trophy. Okay, you should be proud of that. I don't have a participation trophy for wait, what is the patient trophy for? Some pranks are actually just walked up to him at One of his rallies and handed him a trophy instead. It was a participation.

53:12 - Liz (Host)

That's a very Eric Andre. I love it.

53:15 - Jess (Host)

Finally, I want to talk about get out slash go, which is back-to-back songs where Addison tells Wilson to get out of his life and Wilson says I'm gonna go oh.

53:27 - Clip (Other)

Get out of my life. Get the hell out of my life. Whatever this race we're in, okay, you win, it's done. And now that you've won, get out of my life. It used to be fun to watch you scheme and even be a part of it, but at the start of it it used to be fun to stand and be that. My brother was so fucking smart. I thought we could go from scheme to dream, but then I thought we were a team. Amen, no more. I've looked at the score.


You owe me a life, a life of my own. I wanted to cry like you before I do. Please leave me alone, get out of my life so I can live it.

54:27 - Jess (Host)

Then they both die right after this and they their ghosts make up in heaven.

54:32 - Andrew (Host)

Yeah, it's it's funny though this is act, it's actually sort of true. They die within like a month of each other in real life. That's so why.

54:41 - Jess (Host)

I like when they're just like wait, you're dead. Does that mean I'm dead too? Yep, well, shit 1933.

54:49 - Liz (Host)

Addison die in February of 1933 and Wilson died in a April. So, few months out, but same year. Yeah, just a bit close enough close enough that it makes sense, yeah.

55:05 - Jess (Host)

Well, it has like one of the most heartbreaking parts of any song time song where, basically, wilson says you have to tell me you love me like and he's like fine, I loved you. Now get the fuck out of my life.


Yeah which is Such. I don't know about you, but that hit me really hard in a way. I did not expect to feel anything in this weird comedy musical. That lyrics basically are come on, addie, you love me, come on, say it loud. Come on, addie, you love me, you all of me. You always have and he's like alright, yes, I love you, I always have loved you. Does that make us even? Does that make you happy? And I want you to go? And no, I don't want you to go, which is, if those are the final lines, on time wrote. That would have summarized his entire writing style, which is complex, contradictory and emotions sung beautifully.

55:58 - Andrew (Host)

I Love the ending to this, to the show I really do it is a perfect ending. Truly, I love that. They just, they just leave each other and then they die. And then they're back together and they're just like, well, we fucked up everything, what now? And they're just like well, we'll get it right next time.

56:21 - Jess (Host)

Amongst Sondheim and John Wideman's collaborations we have Pacific Overtures, assassins and this. How would you rank those three?

56:30 - Andrew (Host)

alone, I think I'd probably put this one the highest, but only like a little bit above assassins probably.

56:37 - Jess (Host)

All right, that helps me. For context. Let's rank it among the rest of your Sondheim tier list, so let's remind people of where your list is currently.

56:47 - Andrew (Host)

Oh, my goodness, it's a. There's, there's four tiers, if you haven't seen one of these before A, b, c, d. These are only ranked among themselves, so this is not like Most of this list in like a list with any other shows there. All they would all be an A tier, probably, but because it's ranked between themselves, some of them are not. Yes, so a tier is a Sweeney Todd, the one that I am not gonna say, because you know Rose show my road rose the mama road show and then into the woods, beat here.


B tier of Follies Sunday Merrily, west Side Story, company Brog's. C tier ass Forum, pacific overtures, passion. And then D tier is Evening Primrose, which I'm surprised I remembered the name of.

57:58 - Jess (Host)

That was actually impressive. Assassin's, assassin's yes, okay. As far as I know, that only leaves us a couple more Sondheim musicals left to cover on this show, because now he is dead. Which so as far as I know, I believe our anyone can whistle. Do I hear a waltz? And here we are and that's it oh on. Saturday night.

58:27 - Andrew (Host)

I'm gonna get controversial here.

58:31 - Jess (Host)

Is it going in a?

58:32 - Andrew (Host)

it's going in B, but it's a ball, my gosh. It's above West Side Story, in below Maroon. I just think it's a tighter, better written show than some of these other ones.

58:44 - Jess (Host)

Would you really put it above the frogs cuz?

58:47 - Liz (Host)

I think the frogs you, I was there for the frogs.

58:51 - Andrew (Host)

I love the frogs, but the frogs is a bit long.

58:54 - Jess (Host)

I Understandable there enough um.

58:58 - Andrew (Host)

Look making a show short Immediately brings it up a tier.

59:04 - Jess (Host)

I'm actually surprised. I'm actually surprised folly's is so high on your list.

59:09 - Andrew (Host)

I remember really liking that one? I don't know.

59:11 - Jess (Host)

I love folly's. I just didn't figure that would be a Andrew favorite.

59:16 - Andrew (Host)

Well, and sometimes I have different tastes, you know, it's okay I.

59:20 - Jess (Host)

Mean, that's fine. I am always surprised that folly's is so high. Not that I have a problem with that, cuz I love folly's Truly. I agree with Andrew. In any other situation, all these would probably be in a also.

59:33 - Andrew (Host)

We're gonna take frogs and frogs is gonna go up above Company company. Now that I'm thinking about it, company goes lower.

59:42 - Jess (Host)

So the current ranking of Andrews Sondheim musicals is Sweeney Todd, mama Rose into the woods. Folly Sunday in the park with George Merrily Roadshow, west Side Story, frogs, company assassins, forum Pacific Overshires, passion and Evening Primrose.

01:00:00 - Andrew (Host)

I think there's only a few of these that wouldn't be a tier in like a list of every musical, um, namely probably Evening Primrose.

01:00:14 - Jess (Host)

That's barely a musical. It's about Anthony Perkins staying in an apartment store and then all the mannequins come to life, and then he becomes a mannequin at the end because he stayed too long, was that?

01:00:30 - Liz (Host)

It's mannequin without the fun adventures.

01:00:32 - Jess (Host)

Yes, a hundred percent it is.

01:00:34 - Andrew (Host)

And also Anthony Perkins can't really sing, so oh yeah evening primrose might be near the bottom of any tier list.

01:00:43 - Jess (Host)

I don't know. I feel like that's just a very bad version of it. I've seen the version with Mandy Ptankin and Bernadette Peters just singing every song and that works like as like just a review of People just reading it and singing it.

01:00:56 - Andrew (Host)

It's great. Maybe we would go and see tier for some, for most.

01:01:00 - Jess (Host)

Yeah, I think that's fair. I'm not calling it great, I'm just saying that might be the worst way to watch. It is the way that they shot and originally intended it. But what did we all think of roadshow and our cheese ratings? Andrew, we know you loved it. What's your cheese rating? Oh yeah, yeah, this is real.

01:01:20 - Andrew (Host)

Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, I was remembering, right. All right, I'm giving it a Mickey Mouse grilled cheese from Disney World, which is a. It's a grilled cheese shaped like Mickey, with with the ketchup for the pants, with two little yellow dots. I don't know what the yellow dots are, probably probably cheese, and I'm only giving it that because Florida Also, I'm pretty sure this, this architect guy we didn't talk about his architecture or anything and they don't really show anything.


But I'm pretty sure, like a ton of Florida architecture is entirely inspired by what this guy made, just looking at some of his buildings glimpse.

01:02:03 - Liz (Host)

He's almost influential people on Florida architecture that to this day that's like being that the tallest of the seven dwarfs.

01:02:14 - Andrew (Host)

No, like Florida, architecture is like really gaudy and ugly and his buildings are exactly that. So I think he really, he really did inspire an entire state.

01:02:29 - Liz (Host)

So brah, this one goes out to you. As in Miz Mizner, who indirectly created the Florida man with gaudy architecture.

01:02:38 - Jess (Host)

He, he did it. Here's your crown King.

01:02:42 - Liz (Host)

Liz how about you.

01:02:44 - Jess (Host)


01:02:45 - Liz (Host)

I like roadshow, where we've we've discussed and thought about. I've really enjoyed it more than I did, I think at the moment. I was just kind of like middle on it while I was watching. I like the brotherly dynamic. I just I didn't connect with it a ton for a lot of it, so it was probably just a me thing. But like it's enjoyable. I wouldn't say it's like really bad or anything. The songs are enjoyable at the time, actually the two really famous ones and I think the acting in this version especially is good and it's a pro shot. So, like you don't want to find in a sketchy way. So unless you want to message Jess on our discord server via patreon, you can get it a sketchy way if you'd like. Yeah, he's got the hookup, but yeah, I don't mind it. I it's not my favorite son having we've ever seen, but I haven't seen a lot of son time stuff, admittedly, because I'm uneducated. So, um, I Enjoyed it so I'm gonna give it. Sant Santori, bella Vita, no gold cheese Cuz gold. I.

01:03:52 - Jess (Host)

Love it, I love it, I love it. Um, I like this show a lot. I still struggle with it. I stand by everything I said. I I see all the fingerprints of previous versions on it, but that does not make it worse.


It's almost a problem with the way that we kind of do musical theater in in the public and release pieces of it and and we expect it and it changes and that's part of the beauty of musical theater and I think this is like One of the most changed son time shows and it's interesting to watch him adapt because we don't get to do that. We see Andrew Lloyd Webber do that a lot and I think as a piece of Analyzing how someone works, that is fascinating like it. I feel the same way watching bounce and road show as I do listening to boom crunch, compared to last midnight, like alternate versions of son time show. Songs are just other wonderful songs, like Happily ever after and being alive. I see where you're coming from, I see you where you ended up. I like both of the songs, then. That is kind of how I feel about bounce and road show.


I see where you were. I see of where, where you became. Both are valid, both are interesting, both are very different. So I'm gonna give a personal cheese rating, which is cheese curds, because when me and my partner go on a road trip for a road show, we always get cheese curds as a little treat for ourselves on the drive. Nice, speaking of little treats.


Thank you guys for listening to our show. Please follow us an iTunes Spotify stitcher at musicals with cheese. We're on patreon at musicals with cheese. We're on Twitter at cheesy musicals. We have a YouTube page musicals with cheese. I don't have my doc up right now, so I'm just freestyled right now. Ghost, send us a like over on the YouTube's. We have a lot of fun YouTube videos that Liz Estin throws together and does an amazing job there. Go check some of them out, and a lot of them are kind of getting weirdly a lot of downloads and views lately. I don't know why. Emails and musical theater lives, a gmailcom. Our keeper the cheese is Juliet. Antonio Road show is great, don't you think, juliet? This show is edited by Andrew DeWolf and I'm sure he's gonna have a lot of fun editing this one. Thank you to the Broadway podcast network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for Calling Florida gaudy. All right, anything else we have left to say?

01:06:11 - Liz (Host)

I hate to say this, jess, but you might need to bring back this year's. You make me watch musicals, cuz I feel very behind on many Sondheim related things.

01:06:20 - Jess (Host)

Sondheim is the best of us. Come on, I'm.

01:06:22 - Liz (Host)

I will show you all the song I need to force me to watch.

01:06:25 - Jess (Host)

I will. Any excuse I can have to watch musicals, I will do it, but how about we go on to our own road show into next week's episode? We'll see you next time on musicals with cheese. When I was a tyke, I said what I like is art. I know I'm a boy, but what I enjoy is art looking at paintings, going to place, music and books, informing my days, filling my mind, flooding my heart with art, art he covered his tracks.

01:07:02 - Clip (Other)

He got that idiot at the coffee shop to lie for it. Oh please, you don't have to. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This, this chicanery. He's done worse. That's billboard. Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No, he orchestrated it, jimmy. He defecated through a sunroof and I saved him. I shouldn't have took him into my own firm. What was I thinking?

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