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[0:00] Martín Acuña: Hi everyone, I am Martín Acuña and you are listening to Backstage Talk.

[0:15] Martín Acuña: Hello everyone, today's guest. I am between fanboying and starstruck because he is an amazing actor, director, and choreographer. And I actually saw him on Broadway. We were just discussing this before recording. I actually saw him on Broadway and I didn't know about him when I saw The Lion King in 2008. That was my first Broadway show and full circle moment. I saw him on stage and probably he was one of the inspirations for me to do musical theater. Today I have Kenny Ingram. He is an award-winning choreographer. He won a Jeff Award for 42nd Street and he was in on the beginning of Broadway in Chicago with Joseph, with Donny Osmond, Showboat, Ragtime, and Disney's The Lion King from the original company in Chicago.

And then he moved on to Broadway. He has recently won a New York Film Festival Award for outstanding choreography for Emojiland, which ran Off-Broadway. And he currently is in Marriott's Theater Suite Charity as Daddy Brubeck. Kenny, thank you so much for being here and welcome to Backstage Talk.

[1:49] Kenny Ingram: Oh my goodness. Wow. You're like making me cry. I've done a lot of stuff, honey.

[2:00] Kenny Ingram: You have. I thank you for allowing me to be here and for finding me interesting enough to interview me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Backstage Talk. This is outstanding. I'm excited to speak with you. What do you want to know?

[2:17] Martín Acuña: Literally everything about your journey from the start all the way to Broadway.

[2:25] Kenny Ingram: Well, I took the old-fashioned way and I'm probably one of the last of the last that's done this way. I climbed the ladder. I started off in high school with my speech teacher and my speech teacher saw something in me and she suggested that I audition for the high school musical. And I did and I got it. And it was really interesting because I was literally looking at something this morning from that high school production and who that young kid is or was and who I am now. It's such a beautiful thing because I set out to do what I truly wanted to do. And after that, I did theme park. I started taking dance classes at a studio in California. That's where I'm from, San Jose, California. And then after that, that theme park moved me to Chicago because it's the same theme park in Chicago that it was in California.

So I continued. I did this theme park show where I played Little Richard and I sang like Tootie Fruity. So then I did that. And then being in Chicago took me to Hubbard Street Dance Company. I don't know if you ever heard of them, but it's through Lucanti Dance Studio and I got a scholarship there for a whole year. And that scholarship was built upon taking 15 dance classes a week, ballet, jazz, tap, modern, and to really skill your craft. And that's what really helped me out a lot. And I didn't want to do dance concert. I always knew I wanted to do musical theater. Lucanti, who runs the theater, who runs the dance studio, also did musical theater. So I think he took a liking to me. And after that, I just started to shine.

I auditioned for A Chorus Line and I actually did the very first A Chorus Line at a regional theater. So after it went from Broadway, I was the very first Richie to do it at the Marriott Lincoln Shire Theater where I did Daddy Brubeck in Sweet Charity. So that was a full circle for me. That was back in 1985, 84, 84. So I was a kid. I was literally 21 years old. And Chicago was a great place to start for me. I don't know if I would have been ready for New York. I don't know. Maybe I would have been, maybe not. But from doing that, I got my equity card and I started doing all of these different shows in Chicago. I started doing industrial shows. I don't know if you even know anything about that.

Industrial shows is you take a product like Oreo cookies and the whole company of Oreo cookies have a meeting in Las Vegas and they hire dancers and singers to sing about their product. So I did stuff like that. So that's another climb. I did dinner theater. Then I started doing stock theater. Then I did bus and truck. I did Bob Fosse's Dancing. That was amazing. That was a true turnaround for me doing Bob Fosse's Dancing. That was at Burt Reynolds. I don't know if you know about Burt Reynolds, but Burt Reynolds was a movie star. And that was in Jupiter, Florida. We did that. And it was amazing. Burt treated us so well. He gave us cars. He gave us a house. He fed us. And doing Bob Fosse's Dancing was like doing a dance concert.

Anyway, after I did Bob Fosse's Dancing, I went and did 42nd Street. I did, again, just climbing the ladder from bus and truck to, I went to Europe. I toured in Europe. I did the Jasbo and Sophisticated Ladies, Duke Ellington, Sophisticated Ladies. I did a tour over there. I stayed there in Italy. I lived there for six months. I taught dance at a dance studio there. And then I came back to America. And then I started to get more into choreography. And that's where I did my transition. My first show I choreographed was in Chicago, the Rocky Horror Picture Show, which was a lot of fun at the Organic Theater, which doesn't exist there anymore. And then I did Little Shop of Horrors. I choreographed that.

And then I started to meld into the Broadway, Chicago on Broadway scene. And that was really special because Mayor Daley, his wife, Jane Daley, wanted Chicago actors to work like we do in New York. So they literally went through downtown Chicago, renovated all of those old theaters. And I did Joseph with Donny Osmond was my first show with Live Int. And then I did Show Boat. I was the assistant residential director for Show Boat with Mr. Hal Prince. I sat next to Hal Prince. I learned a lot from Mr. Hal Prince. I worked with Dorothy Loudon. I worked with John McMartin, Marilyn McCoo. It was the type of Anita Gillette, Dick Van Patten, his sister Joyce Van Patten. Those are really old musical theater legends.

And Live Int. had that repertoire where they brought in big name stars. And I would teach them the show. I would choreograph them in the show, teaching Susan Stroman's choreography. So it was such a dynamic time in my life. After I did Show Boat, I went to do Ragtime. I had worked with Frank Galati before. Frank Galati, he did a lot of work at the Goodman. And I was in Good Person of Szechuan. I played opposite of Cherry Jones. We did that show. She played the man, woman, and I played a woman. But I wasn't dressed in drag. I was basically myself with a dress, gloves. And it was actually at the Lincoln Center of the Performing Arts. It's there. It's in the vault. And it was a very special time.

And I learned a lot from Cherry Jones. I was acting on stage with a Tony Award, Emmy Award winning actress. So literally, I would have a scene with her. I was like, I can't believe this. And I would go put away my props, and I would turn around and come back to the wing and just sit there and watch her. Because it was like a free masterclass. You're getting like a free acting class. You know what I mean? Like every night. And just to watch her, how she took beats, and how she took her time, and she spoke, and how she breathes, and how solid she was every night. It was the same thing. That's hard to do the same performance every night. That's really, that's a true artist. Liza Minnelli does that too.

Liza Minnelli does that. I saw her one night, and then I went back this year. The next time, I was like, wow. Like literally from taking the same breaths, having the same thought, having that same surprise every night. That's a true icon. That's legend. So after I did that, and I went on and I did, then I think that's when I started to choreograph more. You know, after I did the Broadway in Chicago thing, and then I started directing. I did Joseph, which was for Chicago Shakes. They wanted to start doing musicals because they had done nothing but Shakespearean plays. So they saw my production at the Marriott, and they were like, we want to take it over to Navy Pier, where their theater was opening, and do their first summer musical.

And I pioneered that. I made that happen. I worked there just a couple of years ago. I choreographed The Wizard of Oz there just a couple of years ago. So I directed that, and then Disney came along. And that's when I did The Lion King from 2003 to 2018. I left the show. I did the national tour of Lion King for five years. The West Coast, it was the Chicago original company. And we just basically played the West Coast from, you know, San Francisco for a year, then Hawaii for a few months. Tough, really sad, right? To be in Hawaii for like three months during December. November, December, like the roughest, we went to Mexico City, which was amazing. I also played Lion King in Taipei. I was in the Taipei company, which was outstanding.

We did it in this huge arena, same as Mexico City. We did it in a huge arena, and they just, you know, reorchestrated the arena to make it look like a theater. And then I finally got to Broadway. So I did all of that to get to Broadway. And some of these kids now, they just go to school and boom, they're on Broadway. But I got there, you know what I mean? I mean, I got there. So that's why I said I climbed the ladder. It was the old-fashioned way, but I'm happy that I was able to have that experience because that's what I wanted to do. And I was there for 10 years in a solid show. So what I've been doing now is during the pandemic, I was, I had just finished choreographing Emojiland, and that was at the Duke on 42nd Street.

I also choreographed Teal, the musical, which is based on Emmett Till. So I really have been moving more into choreography. But during the pandemic, I pitched a talk show, and I've shot a pilot for a talk show. I directed and choreographed, I don't know if you know James T. Lane. But James T. Lane is an amazing young man, actor, dancer, singer. He's a song and dance man. He's a choreographer. And he's a, I mean, he does it all. Anyway, he wrote this piece called Triple Threat. And I directed it and choreographed it during the pandemic. We did it, a live version of it in Virginia Beach. We were there for about three weeks. It was outstanding, the most amazing experience I've ever had. Hopefully, we'll hear more about Triple Threat.

I'm about to go choreograph August 13th. I'm going to be choreographing Jersey Boys at Main State Music Theater. And I'm really excited about that, to get my little dance steps moving with that. And also, I'm going to be directing and choreographing Blues in the Night at Porchlight Theater, coming up in December and January. So I'm blessed. I'm grateful. I'm so grateful to do what I do. And I'm very honored and humbled. Because I'm, you know, we get older every day, and still doing what I love, it's such a blessing from God. You know, and I don't take it lightly at all. I've been doing this since I was 14, 15 years old, and I'm still at it. You know, I love it. It's a blessing. And it's been such a wild, happy ride.

[14:13] Martín Acuña: It has been. Like, I really can't complain. Like, I have no complaints.

[14:55] Martín Acuña: I love it. So, you choreographed this massive hit off-Broadway that was Emojiland. And that is amazing. I wanted to ask you, in your experience with this huge background as a performer, what does it take to choreograph a show on off-Broadway?

[15:25] Kenny Ingram: And I tip my hat, first of all, to the director, Tom Caruso. Thomas Caruso was just a gem to work with. I mean, we went in and we started planning. It takes a lot of planning when you're doing a big musical like that. So, literally months ahead, like four months ahead, we just started going through the script, going through the show. The second time that we did it, when we went to off-Broadway to the Duke, we had that skeleton there, but we wanted to lift that skeleton higher to make it more like a Broadway-esque kind of a feel. So, we took it and we ran with it. We had a little bigger budget and we had a month of rehearsals. We had an amazing cast that came in and it was such an awesome experience.

And our first cast that we had, they were very helpful for helping us find that, you know what I mean? So, everyone really put a lot of, the first cast and the second cast, really put a lot of energy into helping us find out what Emojiland truly is. Now, how I got Emojiland is an amazing story. Lori Shine, who I've known since she was nine years old, who is the writer, she and Keith were writers of Emojiland. And I choreographed Laura when she was nine years old in Elmer Gantry in Chicago. And then I choreographed her in Bye Bye Birdie. She was my sad girl. So, when she reached out to me and asked me if I would choreograph it, I was like, oh no, like she remembers me? Like me? So, it just pays.

I'm just saying this, be kind to the kids. Because the kids grow up and they write shows and they'll remember you. You know what I mean? Like, be good to the kids. Be good to the kids, you know? So, but it was an amazing experience. I truly had a great time working with, you know, Leslie Margarita and she's just outstanding and funny. Every day in rehearsals, she made me laugh. And just always so open to play and to dance, you know? It was fun, man. I mean, we were rehearsing at the new 42nd Street, you know, down there and dream come true. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and we got New York Times Critics Pick. It was an outstanding time.

[19:40] Martín Acuña: So, usually Broadway shows take about two to eight, no, six to eight weeks to build it up.

[19:47] Kenny Ingram: Yeah, you're right.

[19:48] Martín Acuña: With Emojiland, you had how many weeks and how was that kind of process?

[19:52] Kenny Ingram: Four.

[19:53] Martín Acuña: You had a month.

[19:54] Kenny Ingram: We had a month. We had a month. We had a month. We had a month. But we were so, like, organized. Like, we really got the show up and everybody came in. It was amazing team players. We had the same creative team that came along with us, the set designer, lighting designer, sound, video, you know? But, you know, it's so funny because everything has changed so much since I've, you have to realize that I've been doing Lion King for 15 years, okay? So, coming back, jumping back on this particular ship, boat was different for me because now they're, like, talking about, oh, I don't even know what that thing is called, some kind of time, time cord or time, I don't even know what it is. But it's something like, you know, it's computerized or something.

I'm like, what? So, everything is microchipped, like, light to this, to that, to this, to that, and the stage manager just pushes a button. But back in my day, it was, like, cue 35, go now, go, you know, from a visual that you would see on the stage. Like, okay, she's taking off her hat. Go, you know? But now I'm like, what? Huh? What? So, that was interesting, and that's still something that I'm still trying to learn about that because, you know, time, time, time, time cord, time something, it's called. But anyway, not, and it's not a time step, but it's, I'm glad I make you laugh. I'm glad you get my sense of humor. But, you know, but, but, yeah, so that was, that was trippy. That was really, really trippy.

[22:04] Martín Acuña: What would be the best advice you have for upcoming choreographers on creating new shows?

[22:09] Kenny Ingram: Oh, my. Well, I think, like, I think the best, the best advice that I can give, it's always a collaboration. You know, I mean, like, I think, like, and even, I'm learning this even as a director also. It's always a collaboration. And trying to get into that as a choreographer, trying to get into that director's brain to see what they have, what their vision is, bringing their vision to the stage, right? You know? And then also letting them know some of your ideas, you know what I mean? And not being afraid to share your ideas, you know? I mean, because they're just ideas, right? And it's okay if they say, oh, no, or whatever. But at least you can be like, right, how about this? And sometimes they love it.

And sometimes it's just like, it just doesn't fit in the puzzle, which is okay. You know what I mean? And sometimes it makes a way, makes its way back to the puzzle. So, you know, but I feel like if you have a director that you can completely collaborate with, it's magic. It's complete magic, you know? And when you can take the time yourself to listen and to digest what everyone is saying in the room so you have clarity, that's the hardest thing, I think, is to have clarity of what you can't see in someone else's brain. It takes time to get to know that, you know?

[23:38] Martín Acuña: Do you have the CD of Emojiland?

[23:40] Kenny Ingram: I do. I have it digital.

[23:42] Martín Acuña: Oh, good. That's awesome.

[23:44] Kenny Ingram: I love it. Actually, it's so fun. And it's, yeah, it's just fun to listen to. He is a genius at writing music. He's really a genius. And he's done, he does everything, like from the, I mean, he's, I think he's in London doing something right now. I mean, he's just always constantly working, you know? But yeah, yeah, it was a great time working on that show. It really, it truly was a great time. And then also what's really great was working on Emmett Till, the Till the musical was really a very powerful production, you know? And this is all through Visceral Entertainment, those two productions that I did, you know?

[24:36] Martín Acuña: What's your favorite memory from Emojiland?

[24:38] Kenny Ingram: Dancing with Ann Harada. No doubt. That was a no-brainer. Having rehearsal with Ann Harada on choreographing her and Pooh, and I've got a video of us just like step-touching with each other. And she is just such joy. She's such joy, man. And full of amazing stories, Martin. Just a lot of stories, you know? And we can relate to each other because we're from the same era, you know what I mean? So I really enjoyed working with her. And I have to say that I helped cast her, basically. Because I ran into her at a reading, you know? And she was like, who are you? And I was like, hi, my name's Kenny Ingram. She's like, what is going on? And bless her heart, she's like, that's what I'm saying. She has a beautiful spirit, you know? She went along with this, and she did it. And I'm grateful to her that she did it, you know? So grateful.

[25:39] Martín Acuña: I love it. Kenny, this has been an amazing conversation. I've loved every single second of it. Before we go, what are your social media profiles? Where can people find you if they want to work with you, or book a class, or just simply get in touch with you?

[25:56] Kenny Ingram: Oh, great. I'm actually teaching a class at the Bridge for Dance on August 2nd at 7 p.m. here in New York City. That's Bridge for Dance. You can find it on my Facebook page, Kenny Ingram. I-N-G-R-A-M. I have my website, KennyIngram.com. If you want to, you know, write me and find out about the class, or find out about booking me, or whatever, you know? Also, I'm on Instagram as TheKennyIngram. I'm also on LinkedIn, on Kenny Ingram. I'm on Twitter, Kenny Ingram. I'm all over the place, huh? Now that I think about it. That made me tired. I'm all over the map. So, yes, please reach out, you know? That's where you can find me.

[27:41] Martín Acuña: Awesome. Before we close, I have one surprise question for you.

[27:45] Kenny Ingram: Yes, Martin.

[27:46] Martín Acuña: Top five favorite musical theater shows.

[27:48] Kenny Ingram: Oh, okay. I'm old school, so it's gonna be- I am- it's gonna be Chorus Line. It's gonna be Bob Fosse's Dancing. Oh, 42nd Street. Oh, okay. I do love A Good Ain't Misbehavin'. And, you know, okay, I just- there's so much more. I might have to say six. Dream Girls. Dream Girls. Yes. And, of course, The Lion King. I love it. I love that top six. I love it.

[28:10] Kenny Ingram: Well, Kenny, thank you so much. I cannot wait to see what's coming for you. And thank you. I'm honored, and I'm so happy to have you over. Thank you so much for reaching out. You are such a blessing. What you're doing for the theater community is so grateful. I appreciate you. I just- I'm honored to be here, and I'm humbled to be here. And you have such an amazing spirit, young man. Keep on keeping on, Martin. When you get here, you look me up. We're going to lunch. I'm taking you to lunch!

[28:18] Martín Acuña: Of course. We're going to go to Sardi's!

[28:28] Martín Acuña: Thanks, everyone, for listening to this new episode of Backstage Talk. Remember to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Backstage Talk Podcast.