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[0:00] Martín Acuña: Hi, everyone. I am Martín Acuña and you are listening to Backstage Talk.

[0:18] Martín Acuña: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Backstage Talk. Today's guest is the amazing Mr. Paul Winkler. He is a Broadway journalist and he has been writing a lot lately. And I am really excited to have him here on the show. So, Paul, thank you so much for coming over and welcome to Backstage Talk.

[0:44] Paul Winkler: Thank you so much for having me.

[0:51] Martín Acuña: So, Paul, I'll let you introduce yourself a little bit and ask you, why did you end up writing in the entertainment industry? So, go ahead.

[0:59] Paul Winkler: Yeah, it's a cute story. I'm sure many have similar stories. But essentially, I was in acting school at the Neighborhood Playhouse School of the Theatre. If those of you who don't know, in New York City, it's Meisner's school that he taught at before he passed away. Very authentic Meisner. And they have very strict protocols. So, you're not allowed to audition while you're there. They kicked out many famous actors. I could tell you stories and stories. It's fabulous. And so I thought, okay, well, I've acted my whole life since I was eight. And I have to do something. Like, I can't just not perform and I can't not audition. So, I kind of realized it was pretty easy to either email or get in touch or write a letter to the stage door of different actors or creatives and whatnot.

And I was like, why don't I just do a podcast? And that was the beginning of Broadway Buzz that I created. And it was really just to do something for fun and to entertain myself. But it became a lifelong profession, I guess you could say. And it's been such a fabulous journey ever since. Very fortunate that it's still going.

[2:15] Martín Acuña: That's great. I love it. So, you started with this podcast, with Broadway Buzz, and then transferred all the way into writing and journalism.

[2:31] Paul Winkler: Yeah, it was a journey. Essentially, it became a website, became a brand, and I was doing a lot of the legwork for it. And it was awesome. And the coolest thing was, people didn't know who I was unless they met me or I said, oh, I'm from Broadway Buzz, you know, I'd sort of put the name to it. And a lot of people didn't realize I was 18, you know, at the time. So, a lot of times I would do interviews or podcasts just like you're doing. And they said, you're 19? You're 20? You're 21? You know, so I was growing up in the city, as well as in school. It was a really interesting time. And I did that for a number of years, I don't know, eight years, something like that. And then I started another brand, and then another brand.

And then I just said, you know, I'm just going to do more freelance work as a journalist. But it's helped me, especially in recent days, when we are in this pandemic, and the work is not really coming to us, I've been able to sustain myself as a journalist, and be able to cover some really interesting and dark and trying times for this wonderful business we call show. And I'm very grateful for that, because I know how difficult it has been for many of our friends and family who are struggling in this time, not just with the pandemic, but just, you know, wanting to perform, and you can't do that. Or, you know, you're a writer, a stage manager, whatever it is, I think it's really, this is a time to remember, and be grateful for what we have.

[4:10] Martín Acuña: I absolutely agree with you. I wanted to know, how was entering that Broadway world, through interviewing people, through writing stuff, how was for you entering that Broadway world?

[4:30] Paul Winkler: It was really exciting. You know, I was never famous, I would never use that word, but I was, everybody at that time knew who I was, and I didn't know why. Like, to this day, you know, people write on my Facebook wall, who are, you know, who I think are like, Broadway gods. I'm like, what? Who? How do you know me? You know, but I, that first two years, especially, I went to like, like 32 Broadway opening nights. I don't know, people just kept inviting me, you know, I think it's sort of very addicting. And especially when you're very young, I think people are like, they love to see that passion. And so it just kind of built from there, and you meet somebody, and you meet somebody else. And it was really thrilling, you know, and I'm still grateful to be a part of this industry, but like, the first two years, it was like, the most exciting time in my life.

[5:20] Martín Acuña: I can't imagine, I mean, 32 opening nights. I've never been into an opening night myself, but I can just imagine the thrill of it.

[5:29] Paul Winkler: It's funny, and they're really fun, usually, especially if it's a hit. I mean, it's fun either way, because you're celebrating the industry. But it's really funny, because you find out that all the same people go to the same after parties, typically. So you could just go to this part, oh, everyone's here, you know, you sort of learn those, those little industry tips.

[5:52] Martín Acuña: I love it. I love it. So talking specifically about your craft as a journalist in the entertainment industry, what has been the biggest challenge you have faced as a journalist?

[6:07] Paul Winkler: Yeah, I think unemployment.

[6:11] Martín Acuña: Yeah, obviously.

[6:13] Paul Winkler: I, not recently, I've been very grateful in this moment in time, but I know, as we mentioned, it's been very difficult for so many reasons. Especially, you know, theater doesn't happen virtually, not really. You know, it's an in-person medium. But generally speaking, I was the second brand that I created with a company. It was so exciting, a big project, lots of money behind it. And it was really, it was someone else's idea, but it really all came from what I had conceded, or conceived for this. And I spent, I don't know, three, three, six months, I can't remember the exact timeline, but years ago, but after everything was said and done, they decided that they just weren't interested in continuing to do the project.

And that really hit me hard. It was not even the being unemployed part, but it was the fact that I just put so much passion into it. And I put so many things on hold. And I remember, it was right around the time of Something Rotten, the Broadway musical. And I saw a, they did a special preview of it at the Little Schubert Theater, which I think is not called that anymore. And I talked to my friend Heidi from Title of Show and whatnot. And she said, you know, even if it doesn't work out, you are going to learn something from this experience. And she sort of had a premonition, because this was before I was even let go. So it, that is something I will always remember, because I was able to take that experience.

And, and actually, I really evolved as a person from seeing that specific side of journalism, I thought, well, I don't want to do that. And I don't want to do that. But I really liked doing that. And it sort of was a turning point for me in my life.

[8:18] Martín Acuña: I love it. And I love it. And it, what a great lesson and advice that even if it doesn't work out, you end up learning something big or small, but you end up learning something.

[8:31] Paul Winkler: Oh, yeah.

[8:32] Martín Acuña: And in your years as a journalist, how have you managed conflict in a piece you are writing?

[8:39] Paul Winkler: Yeah, I guess I would relate that to my experience. I used to do a theater column for New Now Next, which is logo, TVs, and Viacom's like, blog, right, their website, they, you know, RuPaul's Drag Race, all those big brands. And it was really exciting. And I was really the only person just covering theater, everyone else was doing TV shows and all this other stuff. So that was really fun. But a lot of times, my editor, he would have different ideas for what he wanted the piece to be like, or, you know, the sort of spin on it. And I very much my whole career have very much only gone from my point of view, without having to have too much of anyone else's input. And if you're fortunate enough to do that fabulous, but it's not always how things work out, obviously.

But it was difficult in moments, because you really have to negotiate what I would say in my voice, and what, you know, the editor wants, or what the voice of the brand is. And I think that having my own brand for such a long time, it's sort of difficult to let those things go. But there is a little bit of a negotiation to happen, to say the least.

[10:01] Martín Acuña: And how did that, or those negotiations went?

[10:06] Paul Winkler: They were, they were, they were sometimes tricky. I also was sort of finding my voice. So sometimes you, you kind of think, Oh, well, I'm gonna be, I'm just gonna write about news, you know, or I'm gonna just write about gossip. But then at the end of the day, you have to think, what do I want to represent? You know, because you put on the internet, it's out there forever, right? You know, like you are writing things that are people are going to read, and they might take a look at in 10 years from now. And it, it just had to go a certain way in terms of listening, but also taking care of myself as well.

[10:51] Martín Acuña: Absolutely, because this industry, I mean, thespians love drama. Our industry is built on drama. And sometimes there's like a universal battle with gossip and journalism. So yeah, it can be really nasty. And as you just said, something you put online probably will be there forever. And even if you delete it, someone, for sure, took a screenshot or something.

[11:19] Paul Winkler: Yeah. So it can come back and bite your butt. I also think there's a big challenge in the industry. And I talk about this a lot on Twitter, is that you have just a couple brands that cover Broadway, generally, Playbill, Broadway.com, Broadway World, I guess you can include Theater Mania, New York Times theater section, and especially, sometimes excluding the New York Times, they're selling tickets, they are advertising at the same time, they are trying to get into the press room for a new Broadway show. So there's this big conflict where they don't like to say anything that's going to upset anybody. And that's a really terrible place as a journalist to cover things. And I'm very certain that there are journalists at Playbill or wherever who really want to cover a certain story, and they don't, they're not allowed to, you know, because they're getting money from the show.

But that is not a place that any journalist should ever be in a space for. And I think there has to be a room to grow, where we evolve and say, No, actually, we need to cover this story. Somebody was abused, and this should be the headline, we need to talk about it. Even if it's difficult, even if it's going to upset people, it's still important to talk about.

[12:42] Martín Acuña: So you think that in terms of media and coverage, the industry may be facing a turning point?

[12:54] Paul Winkler: I don't know. Okay, here's the thing. You know about the story of the former producer of, let's say, The Music Man? Do you know who I'm talking about?

[13:05] Martín Acuña: Yes.

[13:06] Paul Winkler: Okay. So I've been covering him for, I want to say, eight or nine years.

[13:11] Martín Acuña: Okay.

[13:13] Paul Winkler: And nobody cared for all those eight or nine years. And you know, it's fine if they don't listen to me. It's not about me. It's about telling other people's stories that were actually really mattered and were really difficult and hard to talk about.

[13:29] Paul Winkler: But it took one article to change all that. However, and I deeply talk about this online, but I think it was 12 or 16 days until it was covered by anybody else. And in fact, there is a certain costume designer who is represented right now at Diana on Broadway and the return of Beetlejuice, I'm assuming. And nobody has even covered the sexual abuse misconduct in his past. And this one person on Twitter has really tried to get his voice out there. It wasn't covered by Playbill, Broadway.com, Broadway World, New York Times. They refused to. It was only on Broadway. It was BuzzFeed News initially. And it just kind of hurts your heart. And this costume designer is so well loved and has Tony's galore, you know, is so connected. But there has to be a moment where we say this enough is enough. Even if we're not going to fire this person, it hasn't been addressed at all. And I think that's very problematic.

[14:50] Martín Acuña: Yeah, for sure. For sure. And hopefully, people can get more attention. Like these voices that are online trying to not only break into the industry, but share stories that matter, truly matter, can get appreciated sooner than later. And I think that's sort of what happened with West Side Story. I mean, there were so many controversies. And I really hate to see, I think there was over 30 Broadway debuts with that musical revival. And I hate to see all those people at work. That's awful. Including a friend of mine. It's really sad. But, you know, there was so much against them. And it wasn't necessarily, with the exception of one person, the cast's fault. But there were protests and there were things happening. It was like, I don't know how they could possibly get away. But because people were speaking up on Twitter, there was a way that we could sort of organize and say, we need to do something better.

[15:56] Paul Winkler: Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. So, changing topics now, because we went a little too deep there.

[16:02] Martín Acuña: Yeah, welcome to me on any show. I want to know your perspective about the Tonys this year. That weird event that happened.

[16:15] Paul Winkler: Yeah, I want to know your thoughts about it.

[16:18] Martín Acuña: Well, can I get your opinion? I'd love to hear, did you watch the whole thing? Were you able to access it? Tell me everything.

[16:25] Paul Winkler: I could see the first part in which Audra hosted it, but I couldn't get into the concert. Paramount Plus's offer changes outside the States, and I had to see them connecting myself to a VPN, using a friend's credentials to see the ceremony. But I couldn't see the concert. I was more excited for the concert, if I'm honest. But I saw the videos that night, like half an hour after on the CBS Twitter profile. So, I saw the performances. It's really interesting. And I have friends in Canada who also said that they were not able, you know, just like you to see most of it. I mean, essentially, it was just a four-hour Tony Awards. I know they marketed it as two different things, but it was just a continuation.

There really was no distinction. In fact, they just had the big awards towards the end. And then, oddly enough, they did Best Musical, and then, I don't know, about 20 minutes more worth of performances, which was a little strange. Very Oscars-esque, if you remember what happened with that fiasco.

[17:46] Paul Winkler: But I have to say, I'm a big critic of the Tonys. I, of course, grew up with them. I love the performances, but there's so many technical difficulties, and there's things that they really get wrong, politically speaking, or socially speaking, or voter speaking, you know. I was quite impressed. There was definitely a couple moments that I could have done without, to be honest. But overall, I thought it was generally very entertaining. And, I mean, Audra looked gorgeous. She always does. But there was, I think, very good representation. I hope that it felt that way. It seemed to me, at least. But it was. I mean, I don't know. Paramount Plus is a newer service, and I'm sure, for especially international customers, there's a lot of kinks to work out there, or access, really.

I think it really comes down to access, because it is typically an internationally viewed award show, even if it's not as big as the Oscars, per se. So if they are able to do it, I think it has to be on CBS, too. Because ultimately, if it's not on network TV, there's a lot of people who won't be able to watch it. And I think that's a problem for, you know, because there's a lot of people who only have cable, who love to watch the performances, and they can't wait to buy tickets. And you're sort of, you know, taking them out. Now, I'm a very anti-cable person myself. I only stream, and I'm all about the streaming, no ads, all that. But I think it could work. But ultimately, I was pretty happy.

[19:25] Paul Winkler: Listen, Matthew Lopez is a longtime friend. So very, very, very happy for him. I know there was, I guess people would call it backlash. It wasn't controversial to me, but Slave Play not winning Best Play. Now, the fact that they got zero awards, a little surprising to me. I saw both plays. I love them both. I think they deserve lead actress. That was really shocking they didn't get that. Even though, I mean, let's be honest, Mary Louise Parker was also phenomenal. It's so hard to pick with, I mean, with any of these choices. There's not like, it's not really best. You know, it's like the one that people voted for. Because as someone said in their speech, like every Best Play, musical, et cetera, they're all really incredible.

And the fact that they're still running, or they still, you know, have an audience or able to talk. I mean, we're talking about 2019. It was over two years of no Tonys. So it's, you know, a strange time. And I don't know, do we have another Tonys in June? I'm not really sure. But I'm very happy for Matthew. In his speech, he said he wanted to thank all Latinos of all shades, which I think was a direct reference to In the Heights, if we're being very honest. But I'm just so proud of him. I just, I remember, like, when he couldn't get an interview with, like, theater companies, because he was brown, and they weren't interested. And now he has a Tony for Best Play, and he's directing a new movie. And, you know, I love to see people have success, and he's very deserving of it.

[21:18] Martín Acuña: So shout out to Matthew and congratulations again. He must be thrilled. I'm thrilled for him. His speech touched me as a Latin man. Yeah, it meant a lot for me. And did you know the word he said? Latin?

[21:27] Paul Winkler: Yeah. Had you heard that before?

[21:35] Martín Acuña: No, actually. I hadn't either. And he smartly keeps saying it in interviews, so people sort of understand. But anyway, that's the other thing is, like, he makes you learn too, which is really important. And I remember we're texting several months back in the early days of the pandemic, and he said, I'm going to start putting an accent over the O in Lopez. And I said, yeah, like, you should. Like, first off, I didn't even know that Lopez had an accent, because I've never seen it written that way, which is insane that I didn't know that. And I was like, yeah, like, you should be as authentic as you can. I mean, historically, if you know his famous aunt, Priscilla Lopez, she won a Tony in the 80s. And she was, of course, original cast of A Chorus Line.

But early days, she used to hide the fact that she was Latino, and she changed her name, not, you know, for a short period of time. But she wouldn't get gigs. And now look at how far the family has come. It's really beautiful to see that. And I love that he took that decision. Like, my name and my last name need accents.

[23:07] Paul Winkler: Right. So I understand why. And I always present myself or write my name with the accent. And it's, for me, and I have a lot of American friends that always ask me, like, wait, am I saying your name right or not? So I know the value. And I just love that he did it.

[23:13] Martín Acuña: Yeah. And there's a lot of industry folks who their name is pronounced a completely different way. And they just don't tell people ever.

[23:23] Paul Winkler: Yeah. Yes. So, Paul, what would you say to a young version of yourself, if you could do it? What would I say to a young Paul Winkler? Well, I would say be you. Because I know this sounds cliché, but the most success I've had was when I was as the most authentic version of myself I possibly could be doing what I was doing. And whenever I thought, oh, no, I have to be more like what society wants me to be, or more commercial, that never worked for me. So I think just being true to myself really was the best advice I could give myself.

[24:04] Martín Acuña: I love it. I love it. Last question before we go.

[24:12] Paul Winkler: Yes. Top five favorite musical theater shows.

[24:17] Martín Acuña: Oh, that's so difficult. It's such a political question, too.

[24:22] Paul Winkler: Okay. Well, one of my favorite shows seeing on Broadway with the Scottsboro Boys by Kander and Ebb. It's actually part of the trilogy. You might not know this, which was Chicago Cabaret, Scottsboro Boys. Very powerful. I'll just put out Hello, Dolly! Because it's a fabulous musical. I mean, like half a Sondheim, should we put?

[24:39] Martín Acuña: Yeah.

[24:44] Paul Winkler: I mean, like half a Sondheim, should we put Into the Woods or Follies? I mean, I could go on and on about Sondheim. Let's see. I reference the show all the time. And if you didn't see it, you might not get it. But I always talk about one of my favorite shows, The Drowsy Chaperone. And they are doing a musical sequel, I will have you know. They're hoping to have the original cast in it. So we'll see. Minus Georgia Engle, RIP.

[25:15] Martín Acuña: Okay. One last show. Let's see. I'll just be very commercial and I'll just say Moulin Rouge.

[25:25] Paul Winkler: Obviously. I love it. Paul, if someone wants to contact you, read your stuff. We already know that you're on Instagram and Twitter, but how can someone contact you?

[25:33] Paul Winkler: Yeah, I'm at Mr. Paul Winkler on Twitter and at Paul Winkler on Instagram. Although I just don't Instagram too much anymore, but I'm a big Twitter person, as you probably know. And then you could visit my website, so you dare, paulwinkler.nyc. And yes, send me a message. It's so lovely to hear from you and to hear your passion. And I'm sure whether you're in Colombia or you're here, you're going to share that joy with somebody. And that's a beautiful thing. So I love that. And I love to hear from people. So please message me.

[26:22] Martín Acuña: Thank you so much, Paul. And thank you so much for coming over. It's been amazing.

[26:29] Paul Winkler: And see you out there. Read you out there.

[26:32] Martín Acuña: Yes, you too.

[26:35] Martín Acuña: Thanks everyone for listening to this new episode of Backstage Talk. Remember to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Backstage Talk Podcast.