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[0:13] ♪ Musical number: "My Favorite Things" ♪

[0:17] Robert W Schneider: Happy Throwback Thursday, everybody. It's that time of the week again. It's sweltering. The heat is on Inside Guns. I got Steam Heat.

[0:24] Kevin David Thomas: I got Steam Heat. That was fun. Are there any other hot songs?

[0:34] Robert W Schneider: Oh, yeah. The opening of 110 in the Shade is one of my favorite songs. Well, it's gonna be another hot day.

[0:41] Kevin David Thomas: It's hot up here. Too darn hot. It's hot and it's monotonous.

[0:46] Robert W Schneider: Ah, that's a good one. Very warm for me. Anything in hot September. The picnic musical. I love picnic music. I'm gonna think of other songs. Fire. Anything about fire?

[1:01] Kevin David Thomas: Sitting on fire. Oh, that's it. That's good. They're really talking about the heat, not like the industrial revolution, you know. Smoke. Son of the devil, son of the devil, sitting on fire. It's just so odd out there. That's all I can do. Oh boy. The sun has got its hat on today from Me and My Girl.

[1:20] Robert W Schneider: Oh, that's nice. Thank you. What a charming score beating my own. Leaning on a lamp post at the corner of the street.

[1:28] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my gosh. Waiting for Sudden Lily to come by only online. What's her song? Won't You Lose Your Art, Won't Somebody Tyse. You know? I love that. In that era when, yeah, love that. In the 80s when like everything we got was from England.

[1:48] Robert W Schneider: Oh, yeah. You know, I mean everything was.

[1:52] Kevin David Thomas: A friend. Oh, no, no, I was gonna say a friend of mine was talking to me yesterday. He just did the new Rags that they were working at NYU on because they're always trying to fit that score. I often say you listen to that score.

[2:03] Robert W Schneider: Sorry to interrupt you, but oh but Charles Strauss, you would play Bye Bye Birdie. You can play maybe Nick and Nora, maybe, and play anything else. But that Rags, you're like, is this the same guy? Did he really write all of this? The Children of the Wind? My goodness.

[2:16] Kevin David Thomas: Sorry, yes, but no, I was gonna say I'm glad they're still trying.

[2:19] Robert W Schneider: They are trying. He said that they were trying, and he goes, because I go, I don't understand why it wasn't so successful that season. And I was like, well, Les Mis. Judy Kuhn was in two numbers that Tony Awards that sing in two different styles. That season was for nominees alone, was Les Mis.

[2:36] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, Starlight Express, Me and My Girl, and Rags.

[2:41] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, those were the four.

[2:45] Kevin David Thomas: Kind of makes sense. And Rags had closed by that point.

[2:47] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, but boy, I really like that Tony Awards because there's so much to watch.

[2:51] Kevin David Thomas: With it. Oh, that just that 1987 Rags, then she also does One Day More, and then you've got all the other performances. I thought that that's of the 80s. I really enjoyed it.

[3:01] Robert W Schneider: I absolutely agree with you. 110%. That broadcast, it's not my favorite thing today, but that broadcast should be a favorite thing at some point. But you know what I love about that? It's the same that's the episode where they celebrate George Abbott's centennial.

[3:15] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, that's right.

[3:16] Robert W Schneider: And he comes out and they all sing like a little number from a George Abbott show.

[3:20] Kevin David Thomas: That's right, and then like he comes shuffling out, and it's still very funny at like a hundred.

[3:25] Robert W Schneider: Well, I mean, all of his one-liners are like notorious, right? You're like, "Well, what's my motivation here?" "Your paycheck," you know, yeah, it's fast the queen. I love it. Since 19 like 20, he's doing it. I mean, like, come on.

[3:36] Kevin David Thomas: And even then.

[3:36] Robert W Schneider: Even then, louder, faster, funnier.

[3:38] Kevin David Thomas: Louder, faster, funnier.

[3:40] Robert W Schneider: What that was, yeah, but that is a good broadcast 87. They've never really liked that. They've also got what else is on there?

[3:45] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, they have Linda Lavin doing a scene from Broadway Bound.

[3:49] Robert W Schneider: We gotta get her again.

[3:50] Kevin David Thomas: She wants to come on for part two.

[3:52] Robert W Schneider: I know.

[3:52] Kevin David Thomas: She wants to come on for part two.

[3:53] Robert W Schneider: I love the time.

[3:54] Kevin David Thomas: She gave us a finite amount of time. And then by 45 minutes into it, she was like rolling. I mean, she didn't want to leave.

[4:01] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, I gotta go to Sundance Festival with my husband, but honey, come on.

[4:04] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, I gotta go. That was fun. We had a good one.

[4:06] Robert W Schneider: We're so lucky. We're so lucky.

[4:09] Kevin David Thomas: 1987 Tony Awards. I'm trying to think. Angela Lansbury was the first year Angela Lansbury like was hosting it, right?

[4:15] Robert W Schneider: Was it the first year?

[4:16] Kevin David Thomas: The consecutive years that she was hosting.

[4:17] Robert W Schneider: Yes, yes.

[4:18] Kevin David Thomas: Because it was 87, 88, 89, and then she never hosted again.

[4:22] Robert W Schneider: It was just those three years.

[4:23] Kevin David Thomas: In all wonderful fashion. For folks here, in the bosom buddies number that she does with Bea Arthur, she's wearing this black off-the-shoulder dress.

[4:33] Robert W Schneider: Oh, I thought Oh no, not Bea Arthur shoulder pads. Okay, sorry.

[4:35] Kevin David Thomas: She's wearing this black off-the-shoulder dress with like this white fabric running down it. A couple of episodes of Golden Girls later on, Rue McClanahan is wearing the same exact dress. I think Rue watched Bea do it on the Golden Girls and was like, I want that dress.

[4:52] Robert W Schneider: On the Tony Awards, yeah.

[4:53] Kevin David Thomas: And that's what happened.

[4:54] Robert W Schneider: Oh my gosh.

[4:54] Kevin David Thomas: It's also fun to watch them do. I also love I was an avid, I am still an avid Golden Girls watcher, surprise, surprise. But what amazes me that all those women, the wardrobe, you never saw them wear the same thing twice. I mean, my god, those ladies from Miami, really.

[5:08] Robert W Schneider: Oh my god, that was must have been one hell of a thrift store.

[5:11] Kevin David Thomas: I'm wow.

[5:13] Robert W Schneider: That's so true. Bea Arthur's outfits alone, I imagine.

[5:16] Kevin David Thomas: I always love how, like, when they did like the bedtime scenes, and they're all quaffed. They've got like they've all like roll, they're like, oh, you can't sleep either. Their hair is like blown out. They're like makeup is like.

[5:30] Robert W Schneider: Exactly. There's a knock on the door at three in the morning. They look like they're like Blanche strolls on out of there.

[5:36] Kevin David Thomas: Blanche, I understand. Because I'm like, she's still doing stuff. Because Blanche, I guess, she's still in her hair, she's still in her makeup. She doesn't know when there might be a gentleman call over at 3 a.m. And she's gonna look good.

[5:45] Robert W Schneider: Sophia's got her teeth in all the time. I mean, come on.

[5:47] Kevin David Thomas: Sophia's that's true. Sophia would have her teeth out. Her purse, always that purse.

[5:51] Robert W Schneider: Oh, that purse is always there.

[5:53] Kevin David Thomas: One of my favorite Golden Girls was on yesterday, and they had such a good line. Rue McClanahan was trying to flirt with a guy and she says, I'm gonna be in the bathtub with enough water just to can't cover my ample bosoms. And Sophia goes, You're only gonna sit in an inch of water.

[6:13] Robert W Schneider: And it makes me laugh so hard.

[6:16] Kevin David Thomas: And they got away. They got away with so much stuff that you're like, how did you get away with that?

[6:22] Robert W Schneider: It was risky.

[6:23] Kevin David Thomas: My mom told me a couple months ago that my dad was not a fan of us watching that show because of its it was so gay.

[6:31] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, when I watched it when I was like a kid, you know, and we yeah, I love that.

[6:35] Kevin David Thomas: I understand that.

[6:36] Robert W Schneider: Yeah, well, now as I look back at the time, I thought, what are you talking about? But I mean, when I was a kid, I thought that was great. But now when I look at it under the and with that filter, I think, yeah, no, it's you know, it's a lot to plop your other favorite line is when they uh there's a delivery for Blanche and Bea Arthur gets the door, and the delivery guys, does a Blanche Devereux live here? And she goes, It's Devereaux, it's only Devereaux and Limerick's that's that's good writing.

[7:05] Kevin David Thomas: I mean, that's like really good writing, too.

[7:06] Robert W Schneider: That's good writing, you're like delivery, of course, would be. I mean, like you cannot go down. I mean, one of my favorite things to do of watching that show is actually not looking at the person who's talking, but just look at Bea Arthur's reactions.

[7:16] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, absolutely, or any of them, really. They're all comedians.

[7:18] Robert W Schneider: And they are, but they're she's always got an eye roll going at some point.

[7:23] Kevin David Thomas: They always know some reaction. It's like one eyebrow lift.

[7:27] Robert W Schneider: Right. And I like the filming of that era because you really got to see it. It was only like one, two, three cameras. It wasn't like all the zooming, so you really got to see their reactions the whole time. I love it so much.

[7:37] Kevin David Thomas: Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, that's the Golden Girls. Nothing to do with what we do, but you know, I went to Stan for Halloween.

[7:40] Robert W Schneider: You what?

[7:40] Kevin David Thomas: I went to Stan Zbornak for Halloween.

[7:47] Robert W Schneider: Did someone else go as as Dorothy?

[7:49] Kevin David Thomas: No, I'm just went to Stan. That was it. And I stole a traffic cone and I fashioned it into a monkey because remember Stan has the monkey traffic cone as therapy.

[7:59] Robert W Schneider: Oh my god.

[7:59] Kevin David Thomas: And I went with my monkey cone.

[8:00] Robert W Schneider: And did you go with Toupee or without Toupee Stan?

[8:04] Kevin David Thomas: No, I was without Toupee Stan, right? He had accepted his baldness. Finally, he was not trying to like, yeah.

[8:09] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[8:09] Kevin David Thomas: But I wore a like a white linen suit and I had like oh my gosh. Chester shirt opened to here with gold chains. And anytime seven said, Who are you supposed to be? I'm like, hi, it's me, Stan. No matter who who asked me, who are you supposed to be? Hi. Hi, it's me, Stan. Every time. It was a brilliant thing. Everybody announced himself. Every time he walked in. Yeah. Okay. That's it. Well, what's your favorite thing this week?

[8:30] Robert W Schneider: Oh. I forgot we do a podcast. It's not the Golden Girls Podcast.

[8:35] Kevin David Thomas: No, it's supposed to be all this is a book, folks, that my God. It's a little hard to find, but if you can find it, it is so worth it.

[8:45] Robert W Schneider: Um, I'm looking at it right now, and I'm seeing it's being sold used for like $28, but then I'm seeing it being sold new for $140.

[8:54] Kevin David Thomas: Holy smokes.

[8:55] Robert W Schneider: It goes either way. Folks, this is a book that was actually written by one of our former guests.

[9:01] Kevin David Thomas: The guest is Frank Rich.

[9:03] Robert W Schneider: And in 1986, Frank Rich wrote a book that is fabulous called The Theatre Art of Boris Aronson.

[9:13] Kevin David Thomas: Once again, the book is called The Theatre Art of Boris Aronson.

[9:16] Robert W Schneider: Well, if we all remember, Boris Aronson was a very, very famous set designer who did things like Company and Follies.

[9:25] Kevin David Thomas: No, he didn't do Sweeney Todd.

[9:26] Robert W Schneider: That was, I think, Eugene Lee.

[9:28] Kevin David Thomas: Oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassed.

[9:29] Robert W Schneider: I think no, no, no, no. Because I think he had died by that point.

[9:32] Kevin David Thomas: I see.

[9:32] Robert W Schneider: He was a class, he was like one of the classic era of the city. Cabaret, Fiddler on the Roof, Pacific Overtures, Do Re Mi.

[9:39] Kevin David Thomas: The list, I mean, goes on and on and on and on.

[9:41] Robert W Schneider: And Frank Rich was a huge Boris Aronson fan. And so he went through, I believe, with Boris Aronson's widow and children and took a whole bunch of Boris's sketches and wrote about Boris Aronson's process as an artist and as a set designer with fabulous color photographs, showing us models, showing us renderings, uh, explaining exactly how like decisions were finally like reached in the artistic process.

[10:08] Kevin David Thomas: It's an absolutely fabulous, wonderful book, and it's a coffee table.

[10:08] Robert W Schneider: It's a coffee table book. You put it out on your coffee table. It is absolutely marvelous.

[10:17] Kevin David Thomas: So the book is called The Theatre Art of Boris Aronson.

[10:21] Robert W Schneider: A R-O-N-S. Sorry, A-R-O-N-S-O-N.

[10:26] Kevin David Thomas: And it's he's it was worth celebrating because unless you're a scenic designer, which you are all very aware of, the shoulders you're standing on. Boris is someone that you know we don't often talk about the scenic designers every day, you know, these days.

[10:39] Robert W Schneider: You know, we know of the ones that are living, but I think it's really worth celebrating the ones from the past.

[10:43] Kevin David Thomas: I agree with you, and just really, really quickly, and then we'll move on. One of the things I think that's also really important to remember is that how he and Hal Prince collaborated on so many shows together.

[10:52] Robert W Schneider: And how Prince gets so much credit for visually shaping how a show is performed.

[10:58] Kevin David Thomas: Like, for example, in Company, the idea of saying we don't need to bring on a living room set to say we're in a living room, just bring on a sofa and the audience will fill in the rest of the void around it.

[11:11] Robert W Schneider: That is a really nice thing to say, but it was Boris Aronson's execution of that idea that really makes it work.

[11:17] Kevin David Thomas: And you look at any of his set designs from and you'll see it in the book, they're revolutionary.

[11:24] Robert W Schneider: You know, creating a limbo land for Cabaret.

[11:27] Kevin David Thomas: Well, they were inventing it too.

[11:28] Robert W Schneider: They were inventing it as they went.

[11:30] Kevin David Thomas: Yes, that we're now we've got all these people to look at and say, Oh, we could do a little bit of this, a little bit of that. But they were just trying to figure it out as they were creating it.

[11:36] Robert W Schneider: Exactly. And just here are a couple of his musicals I just like I want to mention to you, just so that way you have an idea of what he did.

[11:37] Kevin David Thomas: Do Re Mi, which is that huge jukebox set, um, with uh cartoon cardboard cutouts of patrons sitting at tables.

[11:49] Robert W Schneider: Uh once again, Fiddler on the Roof, which is a god my god, what a beautiful set.

[11:53] Kevin David Thomas: Cabaret, Zorba, Company, that great big, giant urban metallic jungle.

[11:59] Robert W Schneider: Follies, is there any better set than Follies? My God.

[12:02] Kevin David Thomas: Um, A Little Night Music, um uh and Pacific Overtures.

[12:07] Robert W Schneider: Pacific Overtures was the last musical he worked on before he um he passed away.

[12:13] Kevin David Thomas: At uh in 1980.

[12:15] Robert W Schneider: In 1980, he passed away.

[12:17] Kevin David Thomas: So anyway, good one.

[12:18] Robert W Schneider: It's a fabulous book. Um, I'm sure you can find a cheap copy of it.

[12:21] Kevin David Thomas: And if not, go to your local library.

[12:23] Robert W Schneider: Go to the Strand. I bet you they have it.

[12:24] Kevin David Thomas: I bet you the str you know what? I think I bought my copy from the city.

[12:28] Robert W Schneider: Because they have all those old books too.

[12:30] Kevin David Thomas: That's really, really good stuff.

[12:31] Robert W Schneider: Next time you come back, I'll show it to you.

[12:33] Kevin David Thomas: Okay.

[12:33] Robert W Schneider: It's really stunning.

[12:34] Kevin David Thomas: So that's mine. It's a book. Take a look at it.

[12:36] Robert W Schneider: The Theatre Art of Boris Aronson.

[12:39] Kevin David Thomas: Well, I would like to celebrate a cast recording of a show, an off-Broadway show from the 60s, that I have a feeling very few people have listened to.

[12:46] Robert W Schneider: Shockingly, it's it's on the Spotify and I think I'm sure Apple Music.

[12:52] Kevin David Thomas: I revisit it quite often.

[12:54] Robert W Schneider: It's very tuneful, it's very of its era.

[12:56] Kevin David Thomas: It's sort of like The Fantasticks, and that uh even though The Fantasticks was seven years earlier than this, this is 1967.

[13:03] Robert W Schneider: Uh it was just piano and percussion.

[13:05] Kevin David Thomas: Uh or well, The Fantasticks was piano and heart, but this says piano and percussion.

[13:09] Robert W Schneider: Um it's by a songwriting team that I think is severely underrated, although we I don't know when the interview will come out, but we will have interviewed one of um the writers of this.

[13:18] Kevin David Thomas: Um it was of its era in that it is about sort of an anti-war, anti-establishment um feeling.

[13:26] Robert W Schneider: Uh now, Hair came out just a couple weeks later and really was revolutionary in the the the tone of it.

[13:32] Kevin David Thomas: And this was this is very much squarely in musical comedy tone.

[13:36] Robert W Schneider: I'm speaking of a musical that is called by Gretchen Cryer and Nancy Ford, who did the music.

[13:41] Kevin David Thomas: Now is the time for all good men.

[13:44] Robert W Schneider: Oh wow.

[13:45] Kevin David Thomas: It is.

[13:46] Robert W Schneider: I I just re-listened to it the other day, and I the tunes are the songs are so catchy in that Fantasticks kind of way, in that in that off-Broadway golden age, very musical theater sense.

[13:58] Kevin David Thomas: But the theme of this is it's about a man who's very he was in the war.

[14:02] Robert W Schneider: He was, I mean, it it's uh he's a teacher, and he's come to this small town in Indiana, uh or the Midwest.

[14:07] Kevin David Thomas: Um, by the way, it was directed by Word Baker, who also did The Fantasticks.

[14:10] Robert W Schneider: Oh, yeah.

[14:11] Kevin David Thomas: And the album was produced by Ed Cleveland of all people.

[14:13] Robert W Schneider: Oh, interesting.

[14:14] Kevin David Thomas: But it's about it's a it's basically a teacher who's a little worldly, and he comes to the small town and brings his point of views, which are anti-war and avant-garde teaching.

[14:23] Robert W Schneider: You know, he wants the students to write in the books and he wants them to read paperback books on the side.

[14:27] Kevin David Thomas: There's a whole song about it.

[14:28] Robert W Schneider: Um and he's very different from the norm.

[14:31] Kevin David Thomas: And in this time period in the late 60s, of course, there's a lot of this going on.

[14:34] Robert W Schneider: A lot of these themes were hitting um musical theater.

[14:38] Kevin David Thomas: You know, it always takes a year or two for us to get for the writers to start producing that which is going on in the world, kind of like when you see what's going on this past last year's theatrical season, you know, with all of the political stuff.

[14:48] Robert W Schneider: It didn't happen when Trump was elected, but then all of a sudden a year later, bam, there it all is.

[14:52] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[14:53] Robert W Schneider: So but I the the score is just so utterly charming and I want to say sweet, but yet there's an undercurrent of of that seriousness of what's going on in this world.

[15:04] Kevin David Thomas: It also explores the relationships between men and women of that time, because we're, you know, it's we're it's written by two women, first of all.

[15:10] Robert W Schneider: Um, and how men are more want to be alone.

[15:13] Kevin David Thomas: There's a song that he sings called All Alone, David Cryer sings.

[15:16] Robert W Schneider: Uh, and then how women need are in a cliche way, want companionship, and what that how that butts its head against each other sometimes.

[15:24] Kevin David Thomas: Um and then basically it's the theme is that you know, now this era is the time for all good men to step up and break the mold of what you know it is to be a typical man, quote unquote, or of that time period.

[15:35] Robert W Schneider: And so to to change that mold and to change that idea.

[15:38] Kevin David Thomas: So um I I think it's really worth a listen to celebrate that uh with the with those political undertones, but also just to enjoy a great cast album with songs that you probably never heard before.

[15:48] Robert W Schneider: But if you like The Fantasticks, you're gonna like this.

[15:51] Kevin David Thomas: It's really fun.

[15:52] Robert W Schneider: And um, it's really fun because Gretchen Cryer is on, she's the lead role in this, playing opposite her husband at the time, David Cryer, uh, but she's under the pseudonym Sally Nivet, and she doesn't use her name.

[16:02] Kevin David Thomas: I know.

[16:02] Robert W Schneider: Oh my god, how I wonder if because if the idea was I would love to well, when we talked, I would love to know.

[16:07] Kevin David Thomas: Is it because you didn't want everyone to know that you're writing it and starring in it at the same time?

[16:11] Robert W Schneider: But she's fantastic in the show.

[16:14] Kevin David Thomas: So um for a little gem of a show, a little sweet show that you've never heard of.

[16:18] Robert W Schneider: Check out Now is the Time for All Good Men, 1967.

[16:21] Kevin David Thomas: It played the Lortel Theater, which used to be called the Theatre de Lys.

[16:24] Robert W Schneider: Um, and it ran for a while, and it was a sweet little show.

[16:26] Kevin David Thomas: Check it out.

[16:27] Robert W Schneider: You know, I've never heard it.

[16:28] Kevin David Thomas: I know the title, but I've never listened to it.

[16:31] Robert W Schneider: So charming.

[16:31] Kevin David Thomas: I think the those writers, I think that Nancy Ford and Gretchen Cryer are so underrated, and I think that uh I agree with you.

[16:37] Robert W Schneider: Yeah.

[16:37] Kevin David Thomas: It's it's and this is their first outing.

[16:39] Robert W Schneider: They met in college, and this is their first New York production.

[16:42] Kevin David Thomas: Yeah, and look what they did, look at the theme that they tackled, you know, at the time.

[16:46] Robert W Schneider: So a really special and worth remembering.

[16:48] Kevin David Thomas: That is so exciting.

[16:49] Robert W Schneider: I can't wait to you bring that to me, and I'll give you the book on Boris Aronson.

[16:53] Kevin David Thomas: Deal.

[16:53] Robert W Schneider: And we'll do a fair exchange.

[16:55] Kevin David Thomas: All right, till next time.

[16:56] Robert W Schneider: Bye.

[17:11] These are a few of my favorite things.

[17:20] These are a few of my favorite things.