This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jonathan Cook: We had this, uh, is it, it's pronounced Heyman?

[0:02] Devon McSherry: Heyman, yeah, okay.

[0:03] Jonathan Cook: We were like, we're just coming and be like, hey man, like I'm sure he's heard that his whole life.

[0:09] Devon McSherry: So let's, I have, I've been substitute teaching and I, middle schoolers love Mr. Heyman.

[0:16] Jonathan Cook: Yeah.

[0:28] Jonathan Cook: All right, welcome back to Gather by the Ghost Light. I'm Jonathan Cook, your host, producer, and sometimes voice actor on this thing.

[0:36] Devon McSherry: Sometimes.

[0:37] Jonathan Cook: And I'm Devon McSherry, the girl who sits next to him.

[0:41] Devon McSherry: That she does.

[0:42] Jonathan Cook: And, uh, here we are, is our first episode of 2025.

[0:46] Devon McSherry: And that's crazy.

[0:46] Jonathan Cook: We're here for another year, so we hope that you guys are, uh, are okay with putting up with these two weirdos.

[0:51] Devon McSherry: We're gonna do it either way.

[0:52] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, we're here for it. Uh, a little bit later, we have a guest playwright joining us, Mr. Sam Heyman.

[0:57] Devon McSherry: Uh, but first, we want to tell you about some upcoming events for us.

[1:01] Jonathan Cook: Yes, so we will be making some live appearances. First, we will be in Columbus, Georgia, at the Georgia Tescon.

[1:08] Devon McSherry: That's right.

[1:08] Jonathan Cook: And then a few weeks after that, in March, we're gonna be at the Southeastern Theater Conference, and that will be in Baltimore, Maryland.

[1:15] Jonathan Cook: And at the end of March, here locally in Augusta, Georgia, we will be hosting a voice acting workshop.

[1:20] Devon McSherry: And that workshop is gonna be instructed by Mr. Ian Russell. He's big in the video game industry, and he's also been on an episode of Gather by the Ghost Light.

[1:28] Jonathan Cook: Yes. Uh, so he was in our season finale last year. He played the character Butcher Pete.

[1:32] Devon McSherry: So if you want to hear Ian Russell in action, go check out that episode.

[1:36] Jonathan Cook: And finally, in April, we will be hosting our second annual off Broad Street play festival.

[1:42] Devon McSherry: Oh man, I'm so excited about that.

[1:43] Jonathan Cook: And in a few weeks, we are going to be announcing the eight selected plays for that festival that you will get to see on stage right here in Augusta, Georgia.

[1:51] Devon McSherry: Woo wee.

[1:52] Jonathan Cook: Now, can we, uh, can we get to what everyone's here for?

[1:54] Devon McSherry: Finally.

[1:55] Jonathan Cook: Finally, let's do it. All right, here we go. You are about to hear an audio play written by Sam Heyman.

[2:02] Jonathan Cook: Sam is a queer Jewish playwright based in Nashville, Tennessee. He's very active in his local and his virtual writing communities.

[2:09] Jonathan Cook: He also teaches classes with the Porch Writers Collective. And he is a producer with the Playwrights Thriving Online Groups.

[2:16] Jonathan Cook: And you are about to hear his play called Sensories. You are about to witness an experiment at the Institute of Subconscious Progress.

[2:24] Jonathan Cook: This institute is dedicated to helping members of the public access their subconscious mind through the use of sensory memories.

[2:31] Jonathan Cook: And today, one of their participants turns out to be far more susceptible to their test than they ever expected.

[2:38] Jonathan Cook: Now, gather on the ghost light, sit back and enjoy. This is Sensories, written by Sam Heyman.

[2:44] Jonathan Cook: And be sure to stick around after the play for an interview with the playwright.

[2:49] Dr. Eve Harper: Have you ever smelled something familiar, but you couldn't quite place where from? Do you ever feel like there's something important you're forgetting? Something that your mind is hiding from you? If so, you might be a perfect candidate for our latest paid study.

[3:03] Dr. Eve Harper: Hi, my name is Dr. Eve Harper, Director of the Institute of Subconscious Progress. I speak for all of us here at the Institute when I say it is our mission to help members of the public access the world within their mind by any means necessary.

[3:19] Dr. Eve Harper: Our latest study focuses on the potential of sensory memories to repair and strengthen neural pathways associated with long forgotten experiences. Sensory memories, or sensories as our institute likes to call them, are distinguished from other kinds of memories by what prompts their recollection and what shape that recollection takes.

[3:38] Dr. Eve Harper: Some people experience sensories primarily as a vague sense of deja vu. Perhaps the taste of cherry soda brings you back in your mind to your first time at a diner. You take an unfamiliar exit on the interstate, and suddenly you feel you must have been here before.

[3:54] Dr. Eve Harper: Others experience them more strongly. When you smell cigarette smoke, you remember a man you're not sure you ever knew. When you feel the chill of winter air, you're brought back to your childhood, back to before you became yourself.

[4:10] Dr. Eve Harper: As a person becomes more attuned to the world hidden inside their subconscious mind, they can learn to harness sensory information in the world around them, to transport themselves to places they haven't been to in years, or perhaps have never been to at all.

[4:25] Dr. Eve Harper: Each participant in our study will be provided with various curated samples to choose from, each meant to provide an olfactory stimulus, a sensory prompted by their sense of smell. If you've lost something in the back of your mind, I implore you, invigorate your senses, refresh your memories.

[4:44] Dr. Eve Harper: Join me and the Institute of Subconscious Progress in recovering what has been forgotten. The truth is just a sensory away.

[5:04] Helen Jasper: This is it.

[5:08] Helen Jasper: Hmm, scientific?

[5:10] Dr. Lance: No, no. If anything, this place seems a bit too scientific. Small beakers and bits and bobs. I was expecting something more impressive.

[5:19] Dr. Lance: Well, I mean, there is more to the institute's work than meets the eye.

[5:23] Helen Jasper: Um, sure. I just think your presentation leaves something to be desired.

[5:28] Dr. Lance: So, how does this work? What am I supposed to do?

[5:31] Dr. Lance: Well, okay, so you'll choose three vials from the table there, one at a time. Smell each for a moment, and then let me know your observations so I can record them.

[5:41] Helen Jasper: There's more than three to choose from. What if I get it wrong?

[5:44] Dr. Lance: There's no right or wrong. This isn't a test; you can fail.

[5:49] Helen Jasper: Well, what's in them? Do you know their ingredients?

[5:53] Dr. Lance: They're not labeled.

[5:54] Helen Jasper: Well, what if I'm allergic?

[5:56] Dr. Lance: As mentioned in the paperwork you signed, all scents used in this experiment are synthetically produced. We've made sure to exclude all allergens.

[6:05] Dr. Lance: So you don't know what's in them?

[6:07] Dr. Lance: No, I don't, but that's by design. In order to properly induce a sensory, the mind must be forced to grasp at the identity of stimulus.

[6:17] Dr. Lance: In other words, you need to work to identify it.

[6:20] Helen Jasper: You want me to work at it?

[6:23] Dr. Lance: Yes.

[6:23] Helen Jasper: You want me to smell this bottle's contents and give you a guess at what it smells like. I should smell your fingernails.

[6:30] Dr. Lance: I assure you, Miss Jasper, this is all part of the process. Something every participant goes through.

[6:37] Helen Jasper: Well, Dr. Lance, I just don't get why I'm not allowed to know what it's going to be. What if I don't like it?

[6:45] Dr. Lance: What if you do? Now it sounds like you're trying to sell me something.

[6:49] Dr. Lance: Not at all. Let me ask you something. Uh, does a perfume label tell you exactly what the contents smell like?

[6:56] Helen Jasper: No.

[6:56] Dr. Lance: Occasionally there'll be a short list of ingredients, lavender, amarg, but mostly it's just adjectives, provocations, invitations for you to experience it and decide for yourself.

[7:09] Helen Jasper: I'm not shopping for perfume.

[7:11] Dr. Lance: No, you're not. You're shopping for a memory locked up in your mind. Access to a world that is otherwise impenetrable and lost to you. Sensories are the key to entering that subconscious, even while awake.

[7:24] Helen Jasper: Entering the subconscious.

[7:26] Dr. Lance: That's right. What if I would rather let that world stay lost?

[7:29] Dr. Lance: Well, then you wouldn't have answered our ad. We made it quite clear what our aims are.

[7:34] Helen Jasper: It sounded like you were selling something.

[7:37] Dr. Lance: Not selling, offering an opportunity.

[7:40] Helen Jasper: Hmm.

[7:42] Dr. Lance: So what are you all looking to learn by having us do this?

[7:46] Dr. Lance: Well, we prefer to keep that side of things vague, just for the sake of the experimental design. We wouldn't want to skew the data and have the participants telling us what we want to hear.

[7:56] Helen Jasper: So, in other words, I should just shut up and take a whiff. Is that it?

[8:01] Dr. Lance: One at a time, please. If a given stimulus prompts a sensory, I'll need to record your reaction.

[8:07] Helen Jasper: Okay, then. Here goes.

[8:14] Helen Jasper: Laundry detergent. Reminds me of my mother.

[8:17] Dr. Lance: That's kind of dull, isn't it?

[8:18] Helen Jasper: Well, that remains to be seen. Um, what about your mother exactly?

[8:22] Dr. Lance: What? What does it remind you of about her?

[8:25] Helen Jasper: I don't know. The way her clothes smelled. Not the way mine smelled. Even though they were in the same wash, they never came out quite the same.

[8:34] Dr. Lance: Are you sure it's the detergent then?

[8:36] Helen Jasper: No. I'm not sure. You're leading me, you know.

[8:41] Dr. Lance: Hmm?

[8:42] Helen Jasper: You're not supposed to lead the witness.

[8:45] Dr. Lance: The participant.

[8:46] Helen Jasper: Right. It probably was her perfume. Or just her natural scent. Every person has a smell. It changes. But hers never did.

[8:57] Dr. Lance: Are you ready to move on to the next one?

[8:59] Helen Jasper: Don't you have any other questions to ask me?

[9:01] Dr. Lance: We'll get there. This is only the start.

[9:04] Helen Jasper: If you say so.

[9:12] Dr. Lance: This is.

[9:14] Helen Jasper: Yes.

[9:15] Helen Jasper: How did you get this?

[9:17] Dr. Lance: I beg your pardon.

[9:19] Helen Jasper: This smells like my grandfather's car.

[9:22] Dr. Lance: Could be any old—

[9:23] Helen Jasper: Oh.

[9:24] Helen Jasper: But it isn't. It's his. I can smell the leather seating, peppermints in the glove box. It's all of that and gasoline.

[9:39] Helen Jasper: We're filling up his car at the gas station. And it's taking some time, so he says. You go along with your brother now. Get something for yourself.

[9:48] Dr. Lance: What did you hear?

[9:52] Helen Jasper: Hmm?

[9:53] Helen Jasper: I didn't.

[9:54] Dr. Lance: Why do you ask that?

[9:56] Dr. Lance: Uh oh, uh, I apologize. I'm merely inferred. Uh, j judging by your response.

[10:01] Helen Jasper: Are you drugging me? These vials. They're hallucinogenic. They must be.

[10:07] Dr. Lance: Did you hear a voice, Miss Jasper?

[10:09] Helen Jasper: I want to leave. Unlock the door.

[10:11] Dr. Lance: It's alright. It's alright. You're safe in here.

[10:12] Dr. Lance: Those are hardly the words to say to someone who is feeling acutely unsafe.

[10:17] Helen Jasper: Let me out of here.

[10:18] Dr. Lance: We're not finished.

[10:19] Helen Jasper: I'm the participant, and I decide when I'm finished.

[10:23] Dr. Lance: Miss Jasper, you won't get paid unless we finish what we started. The waiver you signed was very clear about that. And I know how much of a difference this will make for you and your family.

[10:34] Helen Jasper: Fine. Fine. Which one's next?

[10:39] Dr. Lance: Choose anyone you like.

[10:46] Dr. Lance: Miss Jasper? What do you smell?

[10:50] Dr. Lance: What did you say?

[10:56] Helen Jasper: Where did she come back?

[10:58] Dr. Lance: Helen! Helen, come back!

[11:02] Dr. Lance: What? What? What happened? Where did your sentries take you? Where did you go?

[11:06] Helen Jasper: I didn't go anywhere. I've, I've been right here.

[11:09] Dr. Lance: Okay, listen carefully. You need to tell me exactly what you saw.

[11:14] Helen Jasper: I didn't see.

[11:16] Dr. Lance: Hey! Hey, stay with me.

[11:20] Helen Jasper: I'm here. I'm here.

[11:22] Dr. Lance: Where is it taking?

[11:24] Helen Jasper: My mother's house.

[11:25] Dr. Lance: Be more specific.

[11:27] Helen Jasper: Just the foyer. Wallpaper like. Gold braids against a solid red. Hardwood floors and it's Christmas.

[11:40] Dr. Lance: Christmas? Do you know which one of us?

[11:43] Helen Jasper: I don't know. I'm not certain it's even a memory. It's just an image of a place I know. Could be from a dream.

[11:54] Dr. Lance: What are you all doing here at the institute? What are you all trying to do?

[12:00] Dr. Lance: Dr. Lance. Dr. Lance!

[12:05] Dr. Lance: That'll be all, Miss Jasper. Uh, thank you for your participation in today's experiment. Uh, you've chosen your three stimuli, and I've recorded my observations.

[12:13] Dr. Lance: Now, now if you walk out the door and take a left, an assistant will have your payment ready for you.

[12:18] Helen Jasper: Dr. Lance, wait. Be honest with me. You asked me where the vial where the sensory took me. What did you mean?

[12:26] Dr. Lance: I wanted to know where it took you. Like in your mind, that's all.

[12:29] Helen Jasper: No, you seemed, you seemed frightened. Did I disappear?

[12:38] Dr. Lance: In a manner of speaking.

[12:40] Helen Jasper: In what manner of speaking?

[12:43] Dr. Lance: I, I can't say anymore.

[12:44] Helen Jasper: Why not?

[12:45] Dr. Lance: Okay, they're, they're listening. Take the money and go, and do not come back here.

[12:52] Dr. Lance: So, so out the door to the left, Miss Jasper.

[13:06] Dr. Lance: Well done, Dr. Lance. Leave your notes on the table. Someone will be sent for them shortly.

[13:11] Dr. Lance: Uh, thank you, Dr. Harper. I, I think the rest of the institute will be interested in this participant's results.

[13:17] Dr. Eve Harper: Oh, I should hope so. It sounded like you were observing some rather pronounced responses. It's been a while since we've had a participant so susceptible to sensory inducement, hasn't it?

[13:28] Dr. Lance: Yes.

[13:29] Dr. Lance: It has.

[13:41] Dr. Lance: She signed the waiver.

[13:43] Dr. Lance: We have all of it.

[13:44] Dr. Lance: Good.

[13:45] Dr. Eve Harper: The board will want to see that she is properly thanked for her participation.

[13:49] Dr. Eve Harper: Before I let you get back to it, Dr. Lance, I hope you'll indulge me.

[13:53] Dr. Eve Harper: What did you tell the participant just now?

[13:57] Dr. Lance: Uh, I reminded her of the exit and where she needed to go next.

[14:03] Dr. Lance: Uh, yes.

[14:04] Dr. Lance: Or her payment.

[14:05] Dr. Lance: Yes, that that's right.

[14:07] Dr. Eve Harper: You know, there's little use in resorting to falsehoods with me, Dr. Lance.

[14:10] Dr. Eve Harper: I may not have seen what happened in the test chamber, but I heard every word.

[14:18] Dr. Eve Harper: Miss Jasper's response warrants further study.

[14:21] Dr. Eve Harper: As such, she will not be returning home.

[14:23] Dr. Eve Harper: Not yet.

[14:24] Dr. Eve Harper: And until you tell us everything you saw, neither will you.

[14:41] Jonathan Cook: Joining us now is the writer of the story you just heard. He's a playwright, a novelist, a journalist, uh based out of Nashville, Tennessee. He's also a producer over at the Playwrights Thriving Online Group. This is Sam Heyman.

[14:55] Sam Heyman: How are you going?

[14:57] Sam Heyman: I'm I'm going good.

[14:59] Jonathan Cook: Great. I say that because uh you you actually you also do teaching, you do all this writing and producing, but uh you just got home from uh from teaching a playwrighting class in your hometown. How'd that go?

[15:10] Sam Heyman: Yeah, it went well. Um, I was teaching a class with uh the Porch Writers Collective, which is a local organization here in Nashville. It's been going for about 10 10-ish years now. Um, and this is my first class that I've gotten to teach with them. I've done a lot of different classes as as a student. Um, but I was really excited to get to pitch a playwriting class and get to teach it today. So it happened. I'm I was very glad to get to do it.

[15:36] Jonathan Cook: Wonderful. And how long is this course? Is it like a like a four-week workshop type thing or yeah?

[15:42] Sam Heyman: In in this case, it was a one-day three-hour class. So it was just kind of show up on a Saturday morning, um, bring some coffee and talk about plays, and um, most of the students in my class were not experienced playwrights. Um, I had one one playwright that was in the room that I I knew his work previously, and it was that was cool. Um, but hadn't done a lot when it comes to short plays, which is what the what the class was about. It was from one minute to one act, an exploration of the spectrum of short plays.

[16:14] Jonathan Cook: Nice. Uh so Sam, you're you're one of those writers that like many of the other writers that we've had as guests on here. We have followed each other on social media for a while now. And it's like uh we're a part of the same online playwriting groups, and I I've read a lot of your works over the years, and uh and it's I'm just thrilled that you know we finally get to uh to have you on and produce one of your plays uh called sensories. So thank you. Thank you again so much for for being here.

[16:38] Sam Heyman: Yeah, I appreciate you having me on here. I I think that when we I had submitted sensories for stage rights, and it looked like you guys enjoyed it well enough. It was a semi-frightenalist, which I had great glee in being able to say to other people. Um, and then it didn't quite make the cut, and that it was a it was a tough race. There were so many amazing plays and got to listen to some of the stage write episodes over the holidays. Um, but then you had messaged me and were like, oh, we still want to do your play. And I was like, I don't have to submit it again. I can I can just get in there. So that was really exciting, really glad to be part of this.

[17:13] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, we keep things in mind, even if it doesn't make it for certain certain episode or performance lists. We we we loved it and we wanted to make sure we did it. So, okay, sensories. Where was this inspired from? Like what uh prompted you to write this story?

[17:31] Sam Heyman: Yeah, it is a very original, interesting concept. So the is there anything out there that sort of planted uh a seed in your brain when you came up with this?

[17:39] Sam Heyman: Yeah, so there were a combination of things that I think came together to inspire me to write this play. One of the things was literally just the experience of just like being cold and feeling like a kid and like being like, why do I feel like weirdly nostalgic and weirdly like transported in a way to my former self? Um, and I was interested in kind of the potential of that, but I also was really interested in the potential of radio plays. Because I at that point when I wrote sensories, I had not written a play explicitly for radio before. I had just I'd written fair fair amount of 10-minute plays. I hadn't really explored kind of what was possible in the audio only medium. And I wanted to tell something that I felt like could really only be told in the way that I'm telling it without the visuals, like being able to just focus on creating that world with sound.

[18:35] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, when we were reading it, we were thrilled to see something that was specifically written for audio. Um, because sometimes uh stage play doesn't necessarily translate well to just audio, and vice versa, like you were saying. So it's historically a lot of the plays we've produced on here were written on stage plays, and we have to adapt them to audio plays. So thanks for uh thanks for doing uh a part of part of our job for us is doing the adaptation ahead of time.

[19:00] Sam Heyman: For sure. And I mean, even even just in talking about the play with you guys, uh it had already been produced once and being able to see what can we do differently and what what can we expand upon or flesh out in a different way? Um I I really appreciated getting to do that kind of collaboration, figure out, oh, what if this was a little bit different, like a little closer to this idea? And I was like, oh, that is that feels more compelling to me, and it felt more compelling to me, and I'm excited to see, yeah, how it all shapes up.

[19:31] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, I just want to say, uh, yeah, I mean, you're one of those writers that I think uh pretty much all producers and directors like to work with because you're open to collaboration, open to ideas. Um, in particular, the uh opening monologue by Dr. Harper. Um, it was really written as a monologue. Uh, I'm not really sure what your intention was, uh, with if she's you know talking to another scientist or what it was. We were just gonna interpret our own way. Um originally I was thinking maybe it was Dr. Lance listening to a tape recorder and her talking, and that was kind of his training. I was gonna kind of go with that until I got to thinking, I was like, wait a minute, this kind of sounds like an advertisement, like she's advertising the sensories, and uh and like I said, you and you were open with the idea of of working with that, you even did a few few quick rewrites, and that was just that was just awesome that you were you know willing to do that and not just being like, no, no, you do it as is. That's the way it's written, do it.

[20:20] Sam Heyman: Yeah, and and I think when I was envisioning it, it was it was kind of the audience was it was like a press release, it was like uh we're gonna tell you about what we're doing here today. Um, and I think imagining it as an advertisement, like ad copy from this institute, I think was a really interesting angle for it. And it also gave us a chance to kind of distinguish who Dr. Harper is in one way before we meet her later. Um, or meet them, kind of it could be anyone so far, two for two on on women, which is great. Uh women and STEM, we love that. Um but I but it's it's like I also submit women's I also support women's wrongs. Um but the uh yeah, just getting to hear her in that light first and then get to know her in a different way in the play proper, I think was a really kind of compelling idea to me.

[21:20] Jonathan Cook: I think uh it kind of demonstrates the facade that companies show to their consumers as opposed to what their actual intentions are that you see in the end that like she's she's so smooth and calm about it at the end too, like, oh yes, she can't go back to her normal life, like oh okay. We're science progress at all costs, yeah.

[21:48] Jonathan Cook: Yeah. Uh so I got I got a question. Um, so there's you know, we have five senses, and you chose to focus on the olfactory um sense in this. Did you ever uh kind of think through like what would what would this how would this work if I you know focus on somebody's other senses, or or was it always just from the beginning? No, it's gotta be sense of smell.

[22:06] Sam Heyman: Yeah, I think kind of coming back to the idea of this being in the audio medium and we're not really able to use certain or we're not have access to the other senses in other ways. I feel like smell is so powerful and so connected to memory that it kind of felt like the the only choice. Um it felt like the way that the access to memory, which was kind of the subconscious mind, I think would be more most powerfully evoked by the sense of smell, even though some of the other sensories that are described are sense of touch um and sense of taste. But I think that the way that we describe smells and the way that we sometimes can feel smells with our whole bodies, I think that that lent itself to like we have associations with smells.

We associate, I mean, Helen talks about like laundry and reminds me of my mother. Like there's that, but then there's the my grandfather's car. I can see it, I can smell everything. I I remember that place, and that's something that I think smells really evoke in a way the other senses don't.

[23:12] Jonathan Cook: Yeah.

[23:12] Jonathan Cook: Uh so in editing this audio play, I obviously spent a lot of time with these characters, and I've I've heard a lot of these lines over and over again. And one thing I kept that my brain kept uh thinking through was um how how well this might be is like a a series, like either a TV show or uh or an audio fiction series, and uh and one thing that I would this is just the way my producer brain was working. [23:35] I was like, it'd be awesome if like the season finale was like this cliffhanger of oh, we have these other departments. There's this vision department, there's an auditory department. There's a and the it's so the whole series only focuses on the sense of smell, and then at the end, uh it kind of reminds me of the video game Alan Wake. You're you're a gamer, you know.

[23:52] Sam Heyman: Oh yeah, yeah.

[23:52] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, the the last line of the of the game is this game's 15 years old, so I don't care about scrollers, but uh but the last line of the game is it's not a lake, it's an ocean, you know. And I just imagine the ending of this series being like, Oh, there's so much more that you only experience a small the small part. So if you ever do develop it any further, that that that's kind of what my take would be on it is the yeah, well, something that I like about short plays, um, is that you get kind of a certain frame of the world of the play, and you're only getting a finite amount of it, but the amount that you're leaving out, but we kind of indicate to just makes it more intriguing. Like, you don't necessarily have to answer all the questions or build out all the structures of it, but just like I think uh Dr. Harper has the line, like we find like we finally have what we need to progress to the next stage.

Like what is the next stage of this experiment if this if this is the first or second step in this grand plan, what's next? And I think that that is exciting but also chilling because it's like now we can't let this person go back to the normal life if we've hit on something that's working. And yeah I I wanted to build in that element of there being something more and the institute having kind of its own like world but it's I don't necessarily feel like I need to make it longer for it to be I just like developing it in new ways like whether it's in a different medium and what happens if this is something that isn't like I feel like it could work really well cinematically if you actually get to go with Helen where she goes.

[25:30] Jonathan Cook: Yeah and I I see the way that it's described like I feel like it would lend itself to a cinematic medium maybe more than just a stage play medium because then she's not literally there but we see it the audience sees it even if Dr. Lance can't see it.

[25:46] Sam Heyman: Yeah.

[25:48] Jonathan Cook: Right. So uh thinking about a cinematic version uh so when she goes into the memories and Dr. Lance is saying Helen Here where'd you go come back come back so listening to it you don't know if I mean does she actually disappear did did she sort of become this transparent version of herself while she went into this memory so we have no idea what Dr. Lance is seeing and I think that's kind of awesome to the mystery of it. So if you did this cinematically what would be you know as a writer what how would you see that playing playing out? But do you imagine her actually disappearing? You don't have to answer if you wanted to kind of be open to interpretation.

[26:21] Sam Heyman: Yeah, it can definitely you definitely be up to interpretation. And I think that in the version of the script that we have, it is it is kind of Helen doesn't even necessarily know what's happened from Dr. Lance's perspective, she's disappeared in a manner of speaking.

[26:37] Jonathan Cook: Right.

[26:38] Sam Heyman: What does that mean?

[26:39] Sam Heyman: Yeah, exactly. What does that mean? Can't go into it, and and so like there is an idea that it's like, oh, you are just gone to the world, like you're still physically there, but you are just not here. And then there's also the I've been transported temporarily into another space, another plane. But because it isn't in the physical medium, we don't have to make that decision. It can kind of be up to the imagination of the audience to kind of figure out what happens there. Um I think if it was cinematic, I think that we would probably see Helen in the space of her memories, but and then like a matter of maybe hearing distantly, like Dr. Lance trying to get her to come back, like can be a part of it, but then it's there's so many different things you can do.

[27:27] Sam Heyman: Yeah, you know, even then you still don't have to necessarily answer what Dr. Lance is witnessing. Yeah, yeah. We're only seeing in that instance from Helen's perspective. Awesome. So, um, you not only do playwriting, you've also written news articles, uh, you've worked on some novels. Uh, so what has the writing journey been like for you in the process of transitioning into these different writing mediums?

[27:53] Sam Heyman: Yeah, writing journey has been, uh, storied, let's say. Um, I start, I mean, when I was a kid, I was writing stories almost entirely with the intent to adapt them into other things. Like I was like, oh, I want to write this story, but I don't because I don't know how to make a video game. But if I made a video game, this would be the story for it. Or making comics, or like seeing kind of a cinematic vision for what my stories could be, and then writing what I had the resources to write or create at that time. So I did do comics and I studied a little bit of art. Um, got to do a little bit of comic making in college for some classes, which I really enjoyed and was like, oh yeah, I actually know how this works and I could do this.

Um, but it's hard, and I did not put in four years of it. So it's not something that I do very often. But fiction was the primary way that I wrote until about hitting college, and my freshman year, I had gotten to see some works done by the student playwrights. They put on one of the play festivals, and I don't know if at that point I had seen an upperclassman had a full-length play or something that they had put on that they had written, so they got done by the student theater association. I was like, I want to do that. Like, I wanna, like, this is the kind of thing that I want to do here. I want to make a thing, I want people to see it, I want to like be in the room with it. And I, at that point, had not taken any playwriting classes.

I had been in plays, I had not studied it really, and I had an idea, and it turned out that idea was super novelistic and did not work as a play, and I did not know that until I was like midway through a class trying to write it. Um, but then the next semester I took a playwriting workshop with two other playwrights, um, one of which you may know, um, Elizabeth Speckman, Elizabeth Gibbons Speckman, who's in playwright driving. Um, and then as I was reading more plays and getting a sense of what that actually looked like, that I started to write short plays, and then I wrote my first full-length play, my junior and senior year of college, and kind of alternated between short fiction and novel-length fiction, um, within high school and college and after, and then about five-ish years ago, I took a 10-minute play playwriting class here with the porch, and I wrote my first 10-minute play that I had written in like over three or four years, and I didn't necessarily have a community to really share that with at that point.

So it kind of sat on the shelf. But then, uh, really around the pandemic, around early 2020, I got reconnected into my playwriting again and just kind of went off to the races, and playwriting has really been something that I've devoted a lot of time and energy into.

[30:48] Sam Heyman: So with the, let's talk about you, you produce for the playwrights thriving group. Uh, what is that group and how do other writers out there get involved in that? And, uh, because you guys do like readings and development and stuff like that, right?

[31:01] Sam Heyman: Yeah. So playwrights thriving is, I mean, it started around the pandemic, um, as kind of a way for playwrights to connect online. It was a fairly small group at first and has gradually kind of blossomed into kind of our rather large association at this point. Um, but a lot of playwrights who kind of are friends of friends that have been invited in and have either dove in with two feet like me or have kind of sat on the sidelines, or maybe somewhere in the middle where it's like we're aware of what's going on, we contribute to posts, but we're not necessarily like taking on a big project. Um, but it's social, it's supportive, it's creative, we have prompts, we have challenges. Um, and as of the past couple of years, we have this reading series that I produced, the Player Thrive Reading Series, um, which was envisioned as a way for playwrights to be able to share their full-length work and or collections of short plays with each other in a kind of not necessarily rehearsed but planned way.

So, like, hey, you want to play you're working on a play, you need eyes on it, but you want to actually have a reading of it get on its feet. Well, we're all across the country. And yeah, this isn't a local group, although a lot of us have gotten to meet each other in person. Um, we've connected virtually, and so we do a lot of Zoom theater. And so, um, some of those Zoom theater things are just we're reading 10-minute plays on a Zoom and we're hanging out and talking about them. And then there's something like the reading series where I work with a playwright to cast their plays, we schedule them, we promote them mostly within the group, but also outside of the group, and then we put on a reading, we do feedback talkback and send them on their way to do their next draft. So that's kind of a bit of what I do and what the group is like.

[32:52] Sam Heyman: I feel like every playwright we talk to says that live audience feedback and workshop together is really one of the most important parts of playwriting is to because something can sound fantastic in your head, and then you have people read it and they're like, "What?" So, uh, we know what we mean, but sometimes other people don't.

[33:13] Sam Heyman: So it's so true. I think that the live aspect of theater and whether it's audience feedback or just audience response from like laughter at laugh lines and like that the energy that's in the room when you have a reading in person is so invaluable to figuring out like, ooh, is this moment working? Is it landing the way that I'm intending it to? Um, and the Zoom experience can simulate a lot of that. But the way that a lot of the readings that I've done have been is that it's like mic off, camera off. So like you're chiming in in the chat, and it's really like everyone's having their private experience with the play, and then we come together afterward and talk about it. So it's not a full substitute for getting in the room and making it happen, but it kind of does away with kind of the geographical and financial investment that goes along with trying to travel to a specific location and being in the right place at the right time so that your play can happen. And I think that that's proven really invaluable for many of the playwrights I've worked with.

[34:17] Sam Heyman: So any writers out there listening, if they want to get involved in playwrights thriving, what do they need to do?

[34:24] Sam Heyman: Yeah. So if you're interested in playwrights thriving, um, it's kind of a, it's not an exclusive club, but it's kind of like a, hey, we probably know about you. If you're looking for a writing group and you know someone who has identified themselves as a member of playwrights thriving, talk to us. You'll probably get an invite and you'll be able to hang out with us. Um, it is definitely something that I think is a rewarding investment. Like if you want to join, it's not, we're not a dues-paying organization, but it's great when people have ideas and want to contribute something like we did a workshop this past year that was all about writing artist statements, and we, um, paired up with other playwrights in the group and read each other's work and helped each other figure out like what is your playwrighting like?

Like what is your voice? Because it's hard sometimes to see it from the inside. And that was one way that we were trying to devise to make it easier to write those statements that are some folks really dread and it's hard to do. This guy, this guy's, I'm one of those folks I gotta analyze myself, yikes, okay, like what do you, wouldn't even have to talk, what do I write? The play is the statements, that is all it is. Um, but yeah, if you're interested and you want a writing group, there are numerous other writing groups that are usually like hanging out on Zoom or in Facebook groups, and we're out there just kind of be paying attention. There are groups like the Playwright Connection that have, um, have kind of assembled a lot of folks from all sorts of walks of playwriting life that a lot of opportunities are, some are posted there are MPX links and things.

That's how I've connected with a lot of people that I've invited into the group has been larger kind of aggregate groups like that that are like thousands of playwrights, but not everybody's really doing it, but then you can kind of get a sense of, oh, I like your work, do you have a writing group? Those kinds of questions help.

[35:22] Sam Heyman: Cool. All right, do you have anything coming up? I know you've written, uh, you've done some writing for the comic book resource, so you have some news articles out there that people can go check out. Um, coming up wise, so I mean with you guys, Sensories is coming out this, guys have already heard it by the time that this comes out. Um, I mean the class was big. I am currently on pause. I was writing for CBR for about two, two and a half months. Um, and really enjoyed, I was writing primarily gaming articles. So I was writing about Magic the Gathering and Japanese role-playing games and Final Fantasy music. And if you're interested in any of those things, you can probably, you can search, it's harder to search by name, but search Final Fantasy, uh, Persona.

There, if you're into video games, if you're into Magic, I, I've written some things. Hopefully I will be able to write some more things soon. I had to kind of take a pause because I was on the job search and I did find a job, so we'll see how all that goes. Um, but, uh, I'm also going to be on, uh, Theatrical Shenanigans is doing another podcast, is doing a 28 plays in 28 days special, and one of my plays, um, Two Necessary Ends, is being featured on that in February. So I'm excited for folks to hear that. I've already heard it and I was, I was walking around my living room just in glee. It was so fun. Um, but yeah, so there's a couple things, but I'm always posting. I've, I've got socials, I Instagram and Facebook, I usually posting updates about plays I'm putting on MPX or things I'm workshopping, and yeah, so there's always something on the horizon.

[38:09] Jonathan Cook: Great. Yeah, we love Rachel and uh, Theatrical Shenanigans. We've had her on here before.

[38:13] Sam Heyman: So yeah, she's great, she does good stuff over there.

[38:16] Jonathan Cook: Uh, so where, uh, is the best place to find you on Instagram and social media and stuff like that?

[38:21] Sam Heyman: Yeah, um, I recently, uh, deactivated my Twitter account. I had been on that for a couple of years and finding some playwright community on there, but I was like, you know what? I think it's time for me to shut her this door. But I am on Facebook, I'm on Instagram at Hey Sam Hey 4292. I'm on Blue Sky as well. I think that's Sam Heyman Rhymo at uh, blue sky.social. Um, and yeah, Facebook is mostly like a, I market it, but it's kind of my friends. I don't have like a specific like writer page yet. But if you're, if you are also a writer and want to connect in that way, I'm always open to meeting new folks and getting to know more people's work.

[39:02] Jonathan Cook: Yeah, that's kind of what I did. I noticed we were, uh, I saw your name coming up a lot in the different playwrighting groups. I was like, huh, you know, maybe we should connect. Might be a good idea.

[39:11] Sam Heyman: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[39:13] Jonathan Cook: All right. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for, uh, for being here with us and chatting with us about Sensories, your wonderful little science fiction-y play. And, uh, really hope that we can collaborate again in the future.

[39:24] Sam Heyman: Yeah, I look forward to it. I really, really appreciate getting to have this conversation with you all and love the work you do.

[39:31] Jonathan Cook: All right, thank you all for joining us. And now it's time for some, uh, some credits. Get the dice out. Let's see what we got. Roll them, roll them, roll them in oh, seven. Oh, okay. That is Southern. We're gonna do Southern. Okay, uh, here we go. Uh, all right, let's see here. What's it say? Uh, this has been a Gather by the Ghost Light Production. Produced by Jonathan Cook and Devon McSherry. The featured audio play in this episode, Sensories, was written by Sam Heyman. Directed by Jonathan Cook. Damn, he didn't allow this episode. Here we go. It was performed by Rahima T. Donnelly as Dr. Eve Harper, Nicole Swanson as Helen, and Sam Manual as Dr. Lance. Sound design and editing by Jonathan Cook.

Yeah, yes. You must know what he's doing up in here. All right, title music by JK47. With additional featured music by Fable Forte and Intrix. Now, this program is funded in part by the South Carolina Arts Commission, which receives support from the National Endowment for the Arts. Y'all come back now here. Stands at Ghost in the Radio.

[40:40] Sam Heyman: Oh, there's a ghost after me.

[40:59] Jonathan Cook: I mean, it literally like just, it literally just played the whole thing like a minute ago.