This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:11] Michael Callahan: Hey everybody, my name is Michael Callahan.

[0:13] T.J. Newton: And my name is T.J. Newton.

[0:15] Michael Callahan: Welcome to Generations.

[0:17] T.J. Newton: This is our very first episode, and we are so psyched.

[0:17] Michael Callahan: T.J. and I have been working on this for a very long time. We're both huge theater geeks, and we wanted to start a podcast and talk about the ever-changing landscape of the American theater.

[0:30] T.J. Newton: Yeah, and we really wanted to bridge the gap between the generations of theater artists that we have right now.

[0:35] Michael Callahan: So every episode will be a round table discussion with actors of all ages, really bridging the gap between the wisdom we can get from people who've been in the industry a long time and the knowledge and wisdom we can get from people who are in the midst of it right now, just starting out.

[0:50] T.J. Newton: Our first topic here on Generations is auditioning.

[0:53] Michael Callahan: And because there's just so much to talk about, we've decided to split this conversation into two episodes. We have an amazing group of artists here with us today. We're so excited to get their insight.

[1:02] T.J. Newton: They come from all kinds of different backgrounds, all kinds of different experiences in the theatrical world, and we can't wait to pick their brains a little bit. And we're gonna start with a little introduction.

[1:12] Michael Callahan: Lance, who are you anyway?

[1:12] Lance Roberts: Who am I? I don't know who I am. No, I'm Lance Roberts, and um born and raised right here in New York City in Harlem Hospital in a decade long, long, long ago. So I'm the grandfather of the group today, so you have to respect me, kids.

[1:31] Alicia Albright: Hi, my name is Alicia Albright. I am from California. Born in Texas, grew up in California, and then family lived in Hawaii for 20 years. And I've lived here for a long time, and I'm happy to be here.

[1:45] Maddy Trumble: Hey Maddie.

[1:46] Maddy Trumble: Hi, I'm Madeline Trumble. That's the equity name, but you can call me Maddie. I was born and raised in Berkeley, California. I went to musical theater school, and then I started working right away, which was super fun. I did a national tour, and then I moved to New York and I lived there for 10 years. And now actually in 2021, in the middle of the pandemic, I moved to the Twin Cities in Minnesota. So I'm here now trying to still audition in New York, also live here and be an actor here. But right now I work at um a brewery and I pour beers for people.

[2:19] Lance Roberts: Fun fact I live in Maddie's apartment now.

[2:24] Maddy Trumble: I missed that apartment. Please come back and visit whenever you want. You know, our door is always open.

[2:29] Keely Bierne: Hi, I'm Keely Bierne, and I was born in New Jersey. And I'm in Aladdin on Broadway with my wonderful dance captain, Mr. Michael Callahan.

[2:40] Jack Sippel: Hey, how's it going? My name is Jack Sippel. I am based in New York City. I'm originally from St. Louis, Missouri. Grew up as a Muni kid, the whole thing, and now here in New York.

[2:51] Michael Callahan: Okay, so we're gonna start off with just some stories from your background. We want to know what is your most memorable audition. It can be good, it could be an absolute disaster. What comes to mind?

[3:02] Alicia Albright: The first one that comes to mind is my audition for Frozen on Broadway. And uh I think the reason it comes up for me is because the work I did to be my true self in the room. It was the first time I did that. I had 12 callbacks, which is just insane. But I had done a before that I had gone on a long journey of doing a lot of self-work, and I tried this new approach that um before every callback, I rented a room and would go over all the material, so I felt really confident in all the roles that was being looked at and for my body, for my voice, and then I would do a meditation before. So it was this whole practice of getting my mind, body, and spirit in the right place before I went into the room.

I would do this meditation where I sent love ahead of myself to the room to the casting director, director, choreographer, everyone in the room, people at Starbucks. So I would get my spirit in the right place and then I would do this thing where I kind of tap the center of my chest to remind myself this is the most important thing that matters. Your heart is what matters. You've done the work. Now go in there and let go. And it changed who I was in the room. And um I've never had an experience like that. I actually got cut. I thought I got cut from one of the callbacks and I didn't tap my heart light before and I was like, they cut me because I didn't tap my heart light. But they didn't. For me it was a really special experience because doing all that work before, I was just so happy to be there. And I wasn't intimidated, I wasn't um in my head. I was just really present and heart forward and it really changed how I view auditions and it changed me in the room.

[4:34] T.J. Newton: Well, that was a beautiful story, Alicia. Um there's lots of stories because like I said, I'm the grandfather and there's like a thousand and two years of stories. Uh, but like my first story that I had in show business was when I got my equity card. And I was I was young, I was green, but as when you're young and you're green, you think you know everything, and I thought I knew everything. So I was going to audition for a new production here in New York of a show called The Me Nobody Knows, um, which Irene Cara had done ten years earlier. Uh and uh this was I you know, I just thought I was supposed to dress up nicely at every audition, even though they were looking for urban ethnic kids, which basically meant that I should be like a street urchin like Michael Callahan from Aladdin or something.

But uh so I went in very well dressed, but because I was non-union, they said they weren't seeing uh they had run out of time for the equity people, so with the non-union people, they were gonna type, which of course we know that just means bringing in a bunch of people at one time, and they decide whether they would want you or not. Well, I saw that they were you know keeping these real thuggy looking ethnic kids, and so what I did was I took off my nice outfit, and it was at a place called the Ansonia Hotel, which is 73rd and Broadway, it's still there, it's like from the 1800s, but that's where they used to have the auditions before there was an equity office. It was filthy there, like the floors were dirty.

I'm sure there were asbestos in the linoleum. I took off the t-shirt that I had and I rubbed it all over the dirty floor, so I'd have a dirty t-shirt, and then um I had nice shoes, but I had like jazz shoes, so I took my jazz shoes and I made those really dirty on the floor and I put them in. And I wish I could do it for you because I said they want like some thugs, so I did like what we used to call a Diddy Bop walk, and I was like, Yeah, you know, it was like holding my nose, you know, looking like I was like high or something, and you know, all of a sudden I started talking, you know, like really like I was from Harlem, because I am, you know what I'm saying? So and I walked in there, and then the director looked at everybody and he looked at me and he said, You, what do you sing?

And I said, Yo, you talking to me? He said, 'Yes, I'm talking to you.' I said, 'Well, actually, I can sing a low F to a high A in the most perfect English ever.' And he still said, 'Okay, we'd like you to stay.' And I stayed and you know, I figured it much like Alicia, it's like, you know, you have to like really focus in on the character, not worry about all the fears that we have because you know, as human beings, we are imperfect. But um, I have a thing like where as the character, I'm perfect. If I know who the character is, then I can be the person, and so I knew that there was a character named Lloyd, and he was a street kid who did a little heroin. So I was just strung out, and I didn't have to worry about you know, nailing the audition because Lloyd was high, and and I got my equity card doing The Me Nobody Knows at the Beacon Theater.

[7:56] Maddy Trumble: I have so many memorable auditions. I'm just gonna tell the story of the most recent one because it was kind of a big deal for me and and memorable. So I moved to Minnesota in 2021. Theater kind of still isn't wasn't really happening then. And then uh at the Guthrie, they're doing Into the Woods this summer, and I found out about auditions like very last minute, and I said, Agents, please help me. They got me in the room. I would be thrilled to work at the Guthrie if I was still a New York actor, which I still am, but as a local actor, that's the theater you want to work at. It's a great theater, and I've never had the luxury of working from home. I had two months where I was on Broadway in 2012, and I got to go to work and then go home every day.

All my other work has been regional or tours. So anyway, uh I go to the sh the audition. Um, I don't know anybody in the room, but everyone else is locals. Everyone ha is familiar with the other people auditioning. I was like so alone. I felt like my first audition back in New York in 2011. It's for the baker's wife, which I audition for all the time. I know the material by heart. And I was so excited to sing Moments in the Woods, like for people, and they didn't ask me to sing that. And I was devastated. I did that favor. They're like, okay, thank you so much. And I know they could see my face drop, or I was like, oh, you hate me. You're not asking me to do all the material. But then I got a call back, so I was wrong.

And the callback, I got to sing Moments in the Woods like seven times for them. I kept getting uh direction. I think the auditions that are really hard that you really want, I used to think that those are the ones that you're never gonna get. Now in my 30s as an adult, if you do the work, and I've done the work for 10 years on this role. I've been auditioning for it since college. I knew it really well. I knew I'm perfect for it, and I went in, I did my best, and I got it. So um I'm so excited. I get to come home after work every day this summer. Even though the audition the first auditions didn't go perfectly, just trusting that I was like, I know this woman, I know this character, and also just recognizing my worth.

You know, it's hard it's hard, and it's really hard in New York, but something about going to another place, another town where you don't know anybody and nobody knows you. You get to be like, I'm gonna wow you for the first time, and you're lucky to have me. Just starting again was really amazing, and then to also be recognized. You're in the right place, you are doing the right thing, you should be here.

[10:25] Jack Sippel: I would say my most memorable audition would be my very first first national tour when I was getting Memphis. I was going to be a senior in high school, and at this point, I had already had my equity card from growing up the Muni. I was just blessed with really amazing opportunities there. That summer, I was actually a student of Jeff Whiting's at the Open Jar Institute, which is a summer intensive he has. It's a week long for high school and college students. It is the step that led to the Open Jar Studios as what we know. I was a student of his, it's a week-long intensive. I was there, and one of the very last days, you do a mock singing audition for two casting agencies. And so I walked in the room.

I sang for one of the casting directors. I sat down, and then my group leader taps me on the shoulder and says, Do you want to go sing in the other room? And I was like, I would love to, just another opportunity. Went in the other room, sang my song, all great. I fly back home. I go start my senior of high school. I'm there for about a week and a half or two weeks, and I get a phone call from New York just saying, Hi, this is so-and-so from Telsey and Company. We would love to see if Jack is interested and in being in a replacement for the national tour of Memphis. Living in St. Louis, we had really no idea what that meant. So we had just our vast opportunities at home. But me and my dad flew up here the next day to New York City, and I went to this quote unquote invited call, which I didn't know what that was either.

And I'm in a room with 40 other guys who are white, 5'8, and can tumble. I mean, it's this very specific show for a very specific replacement. And I go in and I just do my thing, right? I do a combo, they make a cut, I'm still there. I do another combo, they make another cut, and they say, Great, you know, callbacks will be on Monday. Thanks so much. But Jack, can we talk to you before we leave today? And I was like, Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Sweating, sweating, sweating. The casting director of the show is Rachel Hoffman. And so I went up to her and she goes, Listen, we knew you flew up here for this. Um, do you mind just doing your callback right now? And we'll just videotape it because we don't want you to fly back and forth.

I was like, Yes, I'll do anything. And so I did the combos again. I tumbled again. I sang. She whips out her computer, puts it on the piano, and has me site read a song from the show. And after that, she's like, Thanks so much. You know, that was an amazing day. And then I just wanted to reintroduce myself because she was the person I sang for at Open Jar. And I said, I just want to reintroduce myself. I'm Jack. I sang for you this summer. She goes, Oh, I know exactly why you're here. I kept your information. I asked Jeff for your information after that day. And I went back to my offices and handed it to the Newsies company. Um, and they said, you know, we already have them on our list, don't worry about it.

And she's like, fine, I'll keep them around and put me in her file. And then when this audition popped up, she pulled me back up. Um, but I flew back home. On Monday comes around, they have their callbacks on Monday in New York. I'm back in math class in high school. And um, I get another phone call saying, This is so and so from Telsey and Company. We would love to see if Jack could come up here one more time for the Memphis tour. And at that time, you know, my dad was talking to them, just being like, you know, we can't really afford coming back up. So where are we in this process? And they were like, he should really be here, just trust us.

[13:37] Jack Sippel: And we're like, okay. So we flew back up there together because I'm not old enough to get a hotel room by myself. So that's why he had to keep coming with me. I walk in and it's Rachel and Germain, who was the associate at the time. We get into a room, I think it was at the Pearl Studios, and Rachel says, I have an hour rented out for this room. That this is not your audition. I want you to have this job so badly. I rented this room off of my own time to for you to work with Jermaine to like crush this. And I was like, Oh my gosh, amazing! Like, wow. Worked on it with Jermaine. We all crossed the street to go see Sergio and the producing team, Randy Adams, all of them. He's on a break from another show.

So we're just pushing tables aside. And he says, you know, is this enough space? And I was like, Yeah, I'll do whatever you want. And so I danced, and then Rachel's in the corner saying, You gotta hear him sing, you gotta hear him sing. And he goes, Great, you have a song with you? I said, Absolutely. Got my book. They all kind of talked for a second. I sang my song right after my song was done. He just Sergio just stuttered for about four seconds. And then Randy steps in front of him and says, Welcome to Memphis. And so I got it in the room right then and there. And Rachel Hoffman was in the corner with her phone recording it because they had just discussed, like, hey, he's gotta go back home and like pack and then go.

We need him immediately. Like, you have to tell him right now, we can't wait on this. So she has a recording of it, which none of you will see. But then I left the audition. You know, we're all crying, and then people are like, Wow, this is unbelievable. What just happened? I call my dad to meet back up with him. I meet up with him, and he says, How'd it go? You know, I was like, I got it. I already got it. And then immediately you're getting phone calls from the team being like, Hey, here's your first day. And I'm like, I haven't even left the studios yet, and they're already calling from wherever they were. But I went home on Thursday night. That audition was on Wednesday, went home Thursday night, went back to school Friday, cleared out my locker, had Saturday, Sunday.

I went to Seattle on Monday to start the show, finished the tour the last nine months, and then just to top this off, we closed on a Sunday in May, May 19th, and I flew home Monday, May 20th, and my high school graduation was that night of May 20th. So I got off the plane, went to the arena, put on a cap and gown and walked across the stage, sat down and was like, I'm tired. I don't know about that.

[15:52] Maddy Trumble: Jack, I have a question. Does Memphis live in you?

[15:57] Jack Sippel: Oh, forever and always.

[16:01] Maddy Trumble: Okay. Memphis also lives in me, but my I wasn't a success story like Jack. Because my first audition ever for Broadway, um, I was 17 years old and I was at the Memphis audition. I should have not been there. I don't know how I even got in that room. I just think being like local New Jersey, I'm in the room with to mean now legends like Dion Figgins, Bahia. Like, why is 17-year-old me even there? I brought Capizio, like not Laducas. Like, I brought my Capizios that I was wearing in my high school musical. Thankfully, we were wearing flats, and thankfully I was cut because I had one song in my book. I'm just overly confident high school, very green. If we're gonna talk green, 17 years old being like, I'm gonna be on Broadway tomorrow.

It's like, girl, I just can't believe that I was in that room with Jermaine teaching it to me, who now is like, you know, a buddy. I did tell him when I eventually booked the first non-equity Memphis tour when I was 21, I guess, a few years later. I was like, I was in the room. Um, you were my first ever Broadway audition, and he was like, Don't age me, girl. But I just remember because I one had delusions of grandeur thinking that I was going to book that, but also now I think it's incredible because then I ended up doing Moulin Rouge and sharing a dressing room with Bahia, and I think she's an absolute legend, and I think it's so cool that I was ever in the presence of that at such a young age.

Thank you guys for sharing all of those amazing stories with us. It's so interesting and fun to hear how we all view the audition process and kind of what sticks out to us and what are positives and what are negatives. And that kind of leads us into our next question. You know, over the last couple years, the audition process has changed a lot. How do you feel about the current state of the audition process?

[17:49] Alicia Albright: I'm gonna answer this very specifically for my journey and where I am literally in the country. I hate making tapes. I know that it's exhausting. My little sister's also an actress in New York, and she makes a lot more tapes than I do. And she said it's like shouting into a void. Cause at least when you're in the room, you know they're watching you, you know you have someone's attention. But like to have to film five or six sides and two songs and then just send it and then just never hear anything, which happens most of the time, even if in person. I mean, the percentage of auditions you don't get what it's like 99% or more, maybe. But I it feels I don't wanna say pointless, because that's not true.

People are getting cast off of tapes, but it's tough. And I I recognize that me as somebody who has decided to leave New York physically, I am so appreciative of tapes because it still keeps me in the conversation and part of it without having to fly back and forth and you know, spending 600 bucks every time I have an audition. I've gotten a couple callbacks from some tapes, so then at that point I will go to New York because I'm like, oh, they at least kind of like me or are thinking of me. But for somebody who is not in New York, I am very appreciative of the era we're in right now where it it seems like most first rounds are still on tape. And I love that it's more normalized now because I've done four national tours.

So much of my career has been outside of New York. And I remember like when I was doing that, I always felt guilty, you know, or my agent would be like, We'll see if they're accepting tapes for this, or maybe you can make it a tape. And I always felt like, oh man, like I hate not being there. So I I do appreciate for the sake of everyone, because so much work is not in New York. I mean, I I think it's great that now tapes are a little bit more normalized for people on tour for people that don't live there. I am glad to hear stuff is going back to in-person though, because as an actor, we need, I mean, you guys, I think most of you are in shows right now. I'm not, so like I wish I could perform for an audience.

So when I sing and I do great tapes, but it's just for me. And I'm like, I wish I at least had three people behind a table to sing to. I really think that we're about to live in a hybrid world. I have to give a shout out to casting directors who have had to make such a quick adjustment with trying to figure this out. And um, I think we're really coming to a balance now. We're like, we're gonna live in a self-tape and in-person audition experience. Well, especially because New York I find, you know, it's such an expensive city, and it's so inaccessible for so many people, and you know, New York is the dream for so many people. But uh being realistic, living here, you have to have make a lot of sacrifices.

So I'm grateful that actors around the country that might not have the financial means to live in New York are still getting an opportunity, and because I think that this opens up the talent pool for especially for shows that celebrate and um hire people of color.

[20:40] Lance Roberts: What I wanted to say about self-taping was that well, first off, I I haven't done that many for theater. Uh most of them are for television, but when the pandemic happened, March 12th, that was on a Thursday, I had a self-tape on Monday that I was gonna do because there was this pandemic, and so they they scrambled and they said, Oh, we're gonna do a self-tape. And I was like, What? For theater? This is gonna be weird. But I have really good feelings about self-tape because I did the self-tape, then I had a self-tape callback where all the people were there, and then I actually got it, and so that self-tape is what got me through the pandemic because not only did it become it was I I booked the live version of the show, but as we know that show didn't happen.

But then Audible.com bought all of the shows that Williamstown Theater Company was gonna do, and so then we got to record it. It became this long nine-month job from that one little self-tape. So every time I think of self-tape and I go, Oh, I don't want to do it, I don't want to set up set up a light and and figure out you know where to do it in the apartment, you know, where there's a clear wall and all of that, and um, and and no one's shouting outside my window. I always think like, oh, but it it actually helped me through the pandemic. So it is one of those tools that um as actors we're always learning. It's like, you know, I I was in college in the 70s, and you know, we learned one thing, and now you all are learning like new things, what to wear, what songs to sing.

Mine was don't sing corner of the sky, and now people go, What's Pippin? Um so you know, times they are changing. But the thing is is that the self-tape is one of those tools that we have to learn, and and as artists, we're forever learning, you know, even when you get older, you're learning, or you know, like Healy was saying when we were young, we thought we knew everything, and like we don't know anything. And you know, me and my my 60s, I still don't know anything, and so the self-tape to me is like a new tool, and it's a new way to communicate. If we are here to tell stories and to communicate ideas, we should figure out how to tell stories any way we can, and the self-tape is like our new way to tell stories. And yes, like Maddie said, we want those people in the room, but we have to like trust and know that somebody is listening on the other end.

[23:12] Keely Bierne: I was gonna quickly say, Hey, I want to say thank you for both of you, everyone talking. It's so beautiful to be in community because it helps open our own perspective of things when we hear peers, whether we know each other or not, speak. And um, especially Lance, what you just said helps me. I will be on I hate self-tapes, and um, I'm not very good at them. I haven't booked anything from them yet. I'm very lucky right now. I was both in the Broadway company of Wicked and Frozen, and right now I currently vacation swing with both shows. So I'm very lucky that I love those shows, I'm loved in those companies, and they keep asking me back. But I have not booked new work as of yet, and I admit I I struggle with self-tapes, and I'm blessed.

My husband is a filmmaker, so when he's free, he helps me, and I look fabulous. But when he's not, I'm like then I don't know what to do. I was just thinking right before you guys spoke, how I need to change my perspective. Lance, what you said was so beautiful, and it was exactly what I need I needed to hear. It's so important because it is changing. And if you don't embrace it, the energy is stuck. You know what I mean? It's still an energy exchange that people can feel your energy through a screen and in person, but it helps what you said at the end to imagine that they are enjoying it because it is that energy we get in the room, like Maddie were talking about, that you can feel how it's going, you can feel that that spark, but it's almost like we have to change the perspective to still feel that when they're not there, so that we create a new relationship with all the new ways going forward, which I think then, whether you get it or not, I remember thinking in person, my goal is always to leave it just feeling like I did the work to leave the room, feeling like I did all I could do that day.

And so it's the same with the tape. But right now I leave a tape, I do it 17,000 times and I'm still unhappy with it, and I'm like, ah, it's good enough. But I think if I could work on changing my perspective and have a view like that, it would make it a more enjoyable experience. I would look forward to doing them more, and then it could shift it, isn't actually doesn't matter if it shifts the outcome, it shifts me.

[25:08] Lance Roberts: I'm the dance captain for Aladdin, so I I watch a lot of dance self-tapes, especially in the last year and a half. And I think the thing that has helped me make my own is the knowledge as someone who views them that all I'm giving you is grace. If you are not in a studio and you have to do this in your apartment, I'm aware of that. I support that. I just need to see, you know, X, Y, and Z technique to call you back. I think for myself too, there's this idea that a self-take, because it exists as a permanent thing, needs to be perfect because that you can watch it back. There's a level of perfection that you need to have. And I have to remind myself as someone that's used this, like I'm never looking for perfection. I know it sucks. I know that you're doing this in your gym studio or your you know small apartment, and what I'm looking for, I will be able to see in that.

[25:59] Keely Bierne: I am so glad to hear that as someone who does not always record in a studio. Uh the first few months of the pandemic, I was able to afford to hop into a studio to record these dance auditions, but like after a while it just didn't make sense financially. But there was a wonderful basketball court right by me, and so I learned the combination in my apartment, and then I bring my tripod to the park, and I record on a basketball court, and I was a little intimidated at first because you're dancing like for strangers sometimes who are playing basketball. But at the end of the day, I'm just giving a free show. We also, I feel like, get discouraged when we watch the example of what's being taught to us. And it's quote unquote terrible in terms of it's facing the wrong way. So now we have to reverse it and put our camera facing a mirror so it turns it around. That whole game, we get discouraged as performers and say we're not given a chance here to succeed.

[27:02] T.J. Newton: Be sure to tune in to episode two for the conclusion of our conversations about auditioning here on Generations.