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[0:00] Tim Rice: Hello, this is Tim Rice, and welcome to episode 23 of Get On to My Cloud.

[0:16] Tim Rice: In the mid-1990s, I was fortunate enough to win three Oscars in five years for Best Song in a Motion Picture. I wouldn't say that the award for best song is the one most eagerly anticipated by movie fans, but it's still an Oscar, and I can assure you that I don't lose too much sleep over the ludicrous fact that I've won more Oscars than Leonardo DiCaprio, Cary Grant, and Alfred Hitchcock put together. These guys are true cinematic legends, and songwriters more often than not are interlopers onto the silver screen. But a good song or a great score can often be a crucial factor in a movie's success, even if it's not a musical. Think Vangelis and Chariots of Fire or Three Coins in a Fountain by Sammy Cahn and Jules Stein.

Que Sera, Sera by Ray Evans and Jay Livingston in Hitchcock's The Man Who Knew Too Much. In a world awash with awards ceremonies, the Oscar is the one that almost everybody's heard of. So even an Oscar for Best Song is well worth writing home about. So please forgive me for writing home about my Oscar experiences.

[1:30] Tim Rice: As I've revealed in these podcasts before, I was honored to be called in to replace the formidable lyricist Howard Ashman when he fell ill and died before completing his work on the Atlantic animated movie, which followed on from his enormous success, combined with Alan Menken's music, with The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast. And before that, the stage musical Little Shop of Horrors. It was summer 1992, and I'd just settled into my role in the Disney studios in Los Angeles as Wordsman for The Lion King with Elton John, who was permanently on the global road as my music collaborator. Next door on the Disney lot, Aladdin was nearing completion, but alas, they were now deprived of their distinguished lyricist.

Howard had written several numbers with Alan for the picture, notably the brilliant "Friend Like Me" and "Prince Ali," but there were still gaps in the score, notably a big ballad that would accompany the round-the-world magic carpet ride taken by Aladdin and Princess Jasmine. The movie was due for release in November, and it was already July.

[2:40] Tim Rice: I shall never know how many other lyricists, if any, Disney thought of, or even called up to save the day. But as I was on their doorstep and cheap, I was told to drop Lion King, not due for release until summer 1994, and get to know Alan Menken. And he had to get to know me. Fortunately, this proved an enjoyable experience for both of us. And after I'd seen the latest rough, unfinished version of Aladdin, we got down to work. I must have had some pressing reason to nip back to the UK soon after being roped into Aladdin because we wrote the magic carpet ballad in London. Must have been a test match or something. Anyway, Alan flew over to my home patch and presented me with a very strong tune, which he thought could be called "The World at Our Feet."

I didn't feel feet were the most attractive body part to dominate the proposed romantic scene. I couldn't think of any major hit song to have featured feet, and proposed calling the number "A Whole New World." This worked, and a couple of weeks later, Lea Salonga and Brad Kane, the star voices of the movie, were in the studio in LA recording it.

[3:52] Tim Rice: Brilliant though Brad and Lea were, their version was recorded and performed with the movie in mind rather than the Hot 100. Chris Montan, the Disney chief music executive, had the task of finding two recording stars to make a version that would have a shot at getting on the radio and thence the charts. The pair who were up for it were Peabo Bryson and Regina Belle, both highly respected, established, successful, notably in the R&B market. Produced by Walter Afanasieff, their record did even more than required, getting to number one on the Billboard Hot 100 in February 1993. As I played Lea Salonga and Brad Kane a few weeks back in episode five on Get Onto My Cloud, here's the better-known hit version of "A Whole New World" by Peabo Bryson and Regina Belle.

[4:29] ♪ Musical number: "A Whole New World" — performed by Peabo Bryson and Regina Belle ♪

[8:49] Tim Rice: And it was the first song from a Disney film to hit number one. It went on to be the first Disney film song to win the Grammy for Song of the Year, which is actually a tougher call than the Oscar, as theoretically you're up against every song that came out in the year, not just those in movies. Frankly, to put it mildly, I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time, as far as "A Whole New World" was concerned. Roughly between November and February, every year, Hollywood and the whole movie business gets into a lather about awards seasons. It's not just the Oscars, it's the Golden Globes, the Critics' Choice Awards, the Screen Actors Guild Awards, the Producers Guild of America Awards, the Golden Raspberry Awards.

That one honors cinematic underachievements and disasters: worst actor, worst actress, worst song, etc. The New York Film Critics Circle Awards, the Los Angeles Film Critics Association Awards, and many more, including, of course, the UK's very own BAFTAs, the British Academy Film Awards. So, in those few weeks between November and February, most people in the film business are frantically promoting their stuff in order to be considered for an award, almost working harder than they did on the film in the first place.

[10:06] Tim Rice: I quite enjoyed doing the promotion, especially when the press conference was based around an evening at Disneyland without the crowds. But Oscars remain the king. Win that, and success tends to beget success. Not always, but often enough to make the desperate promotion worth it. And to get even a nomination is fun because you get an invitation, a night out gulping at the stars and wondering whose speech will be the least cringe-making. At the 66th annual Oscar ceremony in early 1993, Aladdin picked up two nominations in the original song department: "A Whole New World" and "A Friend Like Me," which was one of the songs Alan had written with Howard Ashman before I came onto the scene. "Friend Like Me" was a brilliant comic number, sung by Robin Williams as the genie.

The other three nominations were two songs from The Bodyguard and one from the Mambo Kings. The Aladdin numbers were hot favorites, and on balance, I thought that "Friend Like Me" would win as A, it would be a marvelous tribute from the Academy voters to Howard, and B, it was a terrific song. However, that was not to be.

[11:17] Tim Rice: I was simultaneously slightly surprised, slightly relieved, and feeling slightly guilty when "A Whole New World" got the nod. I've never been one for writing out award acceptance speeches before, knowing if you've won, but as Alan is, and as he name-checked what seemed to be the entire Disney Company payroll, I simply had to point out that in happier circumstances, Howard Ashman would certainly have been standing next to Alan. It was back to The Lion King after that, and in my capacity as Oscar winner, I felt it would be difficult now to get rid of me, and indeed Elton. I felt on one or two occasions that not everyone at Disney was convinced that we could deliver the goods, and that a rock-based composer, even one as stellar as Elton, might be too great a shift from the brilliance of a theatrical-based composer such as Alan. But a gift for melody was what Alan and Elton had in common, plus having to work with me, of course. And that and a good story was surely at least half the battle.

[12:17] Tim Rice: But I had to sing Scar's song "Be Prepared" live to the Lion Creative team to illustrate that they sometimes needed to detach Elton's unmistakable voice and style from the song to see how superbly theatrical his music was. The fact that "Be Prepared" survived my interpretation was a further tribute to the tune. At least with The Lion King, Chris Montan and his Disney team did not have to look far to find an artist to record the songs for radio, and we hoped the charts. Elton John got the job. Five John Rice songs wound up in the finished film, and two of them, "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" and "Circle of Life," were substantial single hits. A third song, "Hakuna Matata," found speedy favor with the very young Lion King fans, and we were naturally pretty pleased when all three were nominated for the Oscars.

We were up against some powerful names. Randy Newman and a song from The Paper, and no less than four heavies, James Newton Howard, James Ingram, Carole Bayer Sager, and Patti Smith, with a song they'd all somehow collaborated on, "Look What Love Has Done." I must arrogantly admit I was very confident that we would win, unless Lion King votes evened out among our three entries to such an extent that one of the non-Simba songs sneaked through. But this did not happen.

[13:43] Tim Rice: The only question was which of the three would win? And it turned out to be "Can You Feel the Love Tonight?"

[13:46] ♪ Musical number: "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" — performed by Tim Rice ♪

[17:34] Tim Rice: Believe the ceremony when I decided, up on stage, on the spur of the moment, to thank Dennis Compton, the famous former England cricketer. It had been a long evening, and I could see that conventional thank yous were not gripping the audience in the hall. And I could not imagine the alleged billions watching at home being any more interested in obscure thank yous, even sincere ones. By this point, everyone was waiting for the best film winner announcement anyway. I found myself saying that I would like to thank my childhood hero, Dennis Compton, which led to rows of bewilderment in the room as Dennis's great post-war batting achievements had made little current impact in California, or indeed ever.

I did get one cheer from the balcony, so I knew there was a bridge in the house. Backstage, winners are grilled by the press, and I was asked, what films has this Dennis Compton been in? I applied correctly the final test, screenplay by Terence Rattigan, starring Jack Warner. Jack Warner was an England cricketer in the film, and Dennis Compton created the role of Dennis Compton. There was some confusion back home in Dennis's social circle as one or two of his pals seemed to think he'd won an Oscar. But he got over the disappointment of learning the truth and was very grateful for the plug. He was indeed one of my childhood heroes, and I was thrilled to get to know him in his later years.

[19:16] Tim Rice: For a song to win an Oscar, it has to be heard for the first time in a film. If it's previously been in a play or stage musical, it cannot qualify. Otherwise, film companies could shove "Moon River" into every soundtrack and be in with a shout for an Oscar every year, certainly with a song of that stature. There's nothing to stop you, however, adding a brand new song to an existing score, and that is what Andrew Lloyd Webber and I did with "You Must Love Me" and "Evita." The practice of adding a song to a long-established score in order to cop an Oscar has not always been successful, advisable, or even honourable. In the case of "Evita," our initial motive was beyond doubt the hope of an Oscar, but almost by mistake, we wrote rather a good song, which definitely boosted the impact of "Evita's" final hours.

To the extent that "You Must Love Me" has been added to the theatrical score as a permanent fixture whenever the musical is staged. What with fairly forthright characters such as the late Alan Parker, Madonna, and Andrew, not backward in coming forward with their views about the words, I'm amazed that not only did we write one of our best songs, but it also ended up featuring only my words. With "A Whole New World," I was 50-50 about my chances. With "The Lion King," I was pretty sure we'd win. With "You Must Love Me," I was pretty sure we'd lose. Alan's film, which I thought was a stupendous achievement, had come out very late in the year, had not been seen by enough Oscar voters for the film to have made an impact.

And there might even have been a little bit of anti-Madonna movement playing its part. The movie got no major nominations, but we did get one for Best Song. In between the nominations and the final voting round, it became clear that the film and Madonna had been unfairly ignored. And the only way voters could now support either was through the song, "You Must Love Me." On the Oscar Night itself, Madonna sang the song superbly, which was great to see and hear. But of course, all the votes were in, and her magnificent performance could have made no difference to the award outcome.

[21:35] Tim Rice: How do four people write a song? And another by Diane Warren, the prolific hitmaker who had a powerful entry sung by Celine Dion. But somehow we won. Where do we go from here? This isn't where we intended to be.

[22:52] ♪ Musical number: "You Must Love Me" — performed by Madonna ♪

[24:29] Tim Rice: So I copped a golden statuette at the sixty-sixth, sixty-eighth, and seventieth Oscars, nineteen ninety-three, nineteen ninety-five, and nineteen ninety-seven. Since then, zilch, not even a gnome, and frankly, I don't see one coming up on the horizon. No one has won more than four song Oscars, and one of those who have is my number one favorite lyric writer, the late Sammy Cahn, whom I knew well and who encouraged me enormously over the years. It will be terrific to match his achievement, but I think that taxi may have left the rank. Not surprisingly, I've enjoyed my trysts with the Oscars. To have shared them with three great composers is a further joy. And while I'm proud of the songs we wrote, I hope I don't take the Oscars and other award ceremonies too seriously.

I worry that the entire future of the Oscars is looking a bit wobbly, not only because of the current COVID situation, but because too many people are using the ceremonies for other causes, albeit some are very worthy. If the political aspects overwhelm the entertainment aspects, the events and even some of the participants will become a turnoff for the audiences that matter. I'm with Ricky Gervais on this one. And no, I've never yet won a golden raspberry for worst original song, although I came close in 1981, unfairly, with a song I wrote with triple Oscar winner Marvin Hamlisch for Lauren Bacall in "The Fan," "The Still Time."

[26:05] ♪ Musical number: "The Still Time" — performed by Tim Rice ♪