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[0:13] Sarah Goodman: Hi, I'm Sarah. I'm a sound designer and professional lesbian theater geek. I'm a huge fan of all things Broadway, cabaret, and pop culture. I've got tattoos of Bernadette Peters and Liza Minelli. In my podcast, I'm looking at theater through a queer lens and discussing the intersection between the craft and the LGBTQ community. AKA me, my friends, and family. Today, my guest is Jill Sobule, and we are talking about her new musical, F*CK7THGRADE, a queer memoir. It's playing at the Wild Project in New York City, November 1st through the 16th, 2024. Jill and I had a great conversation about her show, which as of this recording I have not yet seen. I'm going tomorrow night. When I rate the show on the good show queer scale. So now enjoy my chat with Jill Sobule.

[1:11] Jill Sobule: Award-winning singer-songwriter Jill Sobule is the creator of F*CK7THGRADE, a queer musical memoir about how we'll never get out of middle school, opening soon at Wild Project. Jill has recorded eight studio albums, four EPs, and a greatest hits compilation. Her work is satirical yet optimistic, campy, queer, political, and funny. She's the writer of the 90s iconic songs "Supermodel," featured in the movie Clueless, and the OG "I Kissed a Girl." Thank you so much for joining me today, Jill.

[1:47] Jill Sobule: I'm so happy to be here.

[1:49] Sarah Goodman: Oh my god, thank you so much. Tell me all about F*CK7THGRADE.

[1:55] Jill Sobule: Well, of course, in my scientific research, it is the worst year of everyone's life, especially women, actually.

[2:06] Jill Sobule: Why is it a little later? It's like two years later. But for, and so I think we are who we are because of it. You know, I think Freud had it wrong. It's not the first week or month, or I have no idea what he's talking about. But whatever it is, he was wrong; it's seventh grade that makes us who we are. And so it began from that. And I realized I had a body of work, and there were a bunch of songs that were kind of about that period. We got Lisa Peterson to direct it, and we created a kind of a musical memoir.

[2:44] Sarah Goodman: That's so exciting. I'm seeing it very soon. I cannot wait.

[2:49] Jill Sobule: I'm so glad. And the band is—tell me about the band. How many pieces is it?

[2:57] Jill Sobule: Well, it's three other members, and we're called the actually the name of my first band when I was in sixth grade; it was called Secrets of the Vatican.

[2:57] Sarah Goodman: Secrets of the Vatican.

[3:10] Jill Sobule: When I was in sixth grade, so that's the name of the band. And they're Julie Wolf and Kristen Ellis-Henderson and Nini Camps, and two of them were in a band called Antigone Rising, and Julie Wolf is just genius. She's played with everyone from Ani DiFranco to the Indigo Girls, and these were friends of mine, and so I thought, you know, you might as well work with your friends and make, you know, we're all musicians, but they have lines too. We're all Fezbians now.

[3:46] Sarah Goodman: Yes. Did you grow up doing any theater? Do you have a background in theater?

[3:52] Jill Sobule: No. Well, in seventh grade, during the Purim carnival, I was Queen Esther. And that's really all I can put on my resume.

[4:03] Sarah Goodman: Okay, you were Queen Esther in the Purim Carnival. Purim is kind of like Halloween, right?

[4:08] Jill Sobule: It sort of, yes. But no, I really was, you know, just wanted to be a rock guitar player.

[4:19] Jill Sobule: Yeah. But I always loved theater, but you know, but then again, I felt like my performances developed this kind of theater-like quality because I would be telling my stories and talking between songs. So it kind of made sense the way.

[4:38] Sarah Goodman: Absolutely. And I was doing kind of a deep dive on all of your music videos in preparation for this interview. And especially the music videos for "Supermodel" and "I Kissed a Girl" have a very theatrical campy quality to them. Do you remember what it was like filming those and how you chose what it was gonna look like?

[4:57] Jill Sobule: Oh yeah, those were back in the days of when people with the label had money to do music videos when music videos were a thing.

[5:08] Jill Sobule: But I remember for "Supermodel," I definitely worked with the director and coming up with the idea of it being like Carrie, the movie. It's like a Carrie homage.

[5:19] Sarah Goodman: You're like Jill White.

[5:22] Jill Sobule: It's so good. Well, MTV and the label, they didn't like that video because they thought it was too violent and weird. And they didn't like my makeup because it was too gothy or something. But I loved it. And then for "Girl," I had the idea of—I have a thing for like the pulp fiction of the 50s and 60s, and especially kind of the queer ones. And it was, you know, there was always the two suburban women from Connecticut who, you know, take a turn to New York City and love village, and nothing good can happen for that. So that story and that song and the videos that kind of, you know, it's definitely a little John Waters.

[6:11] Sarah Goodman: Absolutely, John Waters.

[6:13] Jill Sobule: It also kind of reminded me of the movie But I'm a Cheerleader, which came out four years after your music video. So I wonder if there was some influence there.

[6:21] Sarah Goodman: Maybe Jamie Babbitt was a fan of your video.

[6:24] Jill Sobule: I don't know, but I'm getting my lawyer out right now.

[6:28] Sarah Goodman: Yeah. I think there were some design choices maybe inspired by your video.

[6:34] Jill Sobule: I love the camp of it all. And I love the sort of tongue-in-cheek. But you were able to do satire and camp in this beautifully optimistic and heartfelt way. It never feels like your work is sneering at people or putting them down.

[6:53] Jill Sobule: It's very sweet. And you're even when you're criticizing people, even when you're making these like satirical, like the song that you wrote about like the MAGA crazies that has that great cartoon, um, giving it to the libs. That song is very funny, but it's not like a hateful, hurtful, angry; it's sweet and optimistic. How do you do that?

[7:19] Jill Sobule: Well, I always feel—and I'm kind of known for things, even when there's a breakup song where at first it's like, "Aha, this is really kind of funny," and then all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, this is a little tragic." But I always think, especially with my kind of more protest song, I think it's always good rather than bashing someone over the head with it, is getting it—you know, I always say like "Kiss the Girl," you know, was a song that I wished I had as a kid, but—and I say this in the musical, I knew I had to keep it light and funny so we could get away with our insidious gay agenda.

[7:59] Jill Sobule: Yes, yeah, and that's kind of my personality anyway, you know, that there's a hopeful cynicism, you know.

[8:09] Sarah Goodman: Yes, and I can really relate to that because times are kind of bleak, but you gotta try to keep going and you have to find the hope, right? And the positivity.

[8:18] Jill Sobule: Absolutely. So, how long has F*CK7THGRADE been in development? I know that you've done it before at Joe's Pub. Like, when did the idea first spark?

[8:28] Jill Sobule: Well, it was probably about four years ago.

[8:30] Jill Sobule: And what gave you the idea to do it?

[8:33] Jill Sobule: Well, it was actually—it started at the Pittsburgh City Theater. It just seemed everyone was so excited, and like I said, it feels like what I do is a performance, but it's taking a more theatrical bent to it.

[8:54] Jill Sobule: And I have to memorize my lines.

[8:57] Sarah Goodman: Yes, it's more of an actual staged production in this phase.

[9:03] Jill Sobule: Yeah, I remember telling Lisa Peterson, I go, "Well, you know, it's hard to memorize, even if the lines," and I said, "Well, you know, Bruce Springsteen uses a monitor. Can't I do that?"

[9:15] Jill Sobule: It seems like you're not Bruce Springsteen.

[9:20] Jill Sobule: Yes, that's true. But it's been such a great experience because it seems like a little family. All of us—you when you come to the show, you'll get the vibe that we're all good friends.

[9:37] Sarah Goodman: I love that.

[9:39] Jill Sobule: We are, yeah.

[9:40] Sarah Goodman: I really love that. And I noticed in reading all of the credits that a lot of your designers on the team are women, which is really unusual for theater.

[9:51] Jill Sobule: It is a majority male field design work.

[9:55] Sarah Goodman: So like sound design, set design, costumes, all those things. It's really cool to see a lot of representation on this show.

[10:02] Jill Sobule: Yeah, I would say the majority of it is.

[10:05] Sarah Goodman: That's very cool. What was the process like working with so many women in collaboration like that?

[10:11] Jill Sobule: Either someone knew someone that they were friends with this person or that person, so it became like this little family.

[10:20] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[10:21] Jill Sobule: So every time we get together, it's like a family gathering or we're back at camp.

[10:27] Sarah Goodman: Yes. That's amazing.

[10:28] Jill Sobule: Yeah, and it's like it really shows how much of a community that theater is. You have to really be in community with each other and family chosen family.

[10:40] Jill Sobule: What's wonderful is usually I'm a solo performer and I go a lot like I was just out the last two weeks playing solo, and it's not a lonely thing, but with the theater, there's such a wonderful thing about collaborating, which I normally don't do.

[11:02] Jill Sobule: And it takes a big weight off of you. Plus that we all have the same goal. It's—it's theater is wonderful. Although I was telling my friends, I go, you know, I'm moving from the music world, you know, and going into off-Broadway theater because I hear it's so lucrative.

[11:25] Jill Sobule: It's a gold mine, you know.

[11:28] Jill Sobule: Such a gold mine. That's where they're really all striking it, Rich is off Broadway theater. But you know what? That is where all the coolest stuff is happening. I've been living in New York for the last three years. I'm from Chicago and I'm a big theater kid. I've been seeing so many shows in the last few years, and truly the most interesting stuff is happening off Broadway, the most artful, the most authentic. Because it's not as commercialized as Broadway. And so people have a more freedom to be authentic and themselves and present something that's cool and that's interesting, you know.

[12:09] Jill Sobule: Yeah, New York's amazing. There's no place like it. I know Chicago has a good thing, but I've been in Los Angeles and it's not that great. I mean, someone was saying we're trying to get the show into Los Angeles. Someone's saying the problem with Los Angeles is in New York, you're competing with other theaters and other things to do. So that whether that's a music concert or theater, but in LA, you're competing with people not wanting to leave their house. There's something kind of wonderful and old timey about being here in New York doing it.

[12:50] Sarah Goodman: That's so great. So tell me a little bit about what it was like for you in middle school. This harrowing time that we all have to experience. Where were you going to school?

[13:01] Jill Sobule: Well, I was in Denver, Colorado.

[13:04] Sarah Goodman: I'm from Colorado too.

[13:06] Jill Sobule: No, where?

[13:07] Sarah Goodman: Fort Collins.

[13:09] Jill Sobule: Oh, I love Fort Collins. My dad went to veterinary school there.

[13:14] Sarah Goodman: Oh, at CSU?

[13:16] Jill Sobule: Yeah. That's great. Yeah, my dad went there too.

[13:19] Sarah Goodman: Really?

[13:21] Jill Sobule: Yeah, it's so beautiful up there.

[13:23] Sarah Goodman: It's beautiful. Now that I look back, what an amazing place to grow up.

[13:28] Jill Sobule: Yeah. Even if I was miserable, we had those mountains.

[13:32] Sarah Goodman: The mountains are so gorgeous.

[13:33] Jill Sobule: Yeah. I mostly grew up in Chicago. We moved there when I was little, but tell me about middle school in Denver.

[13:39] Jill Sobule: Okay, so middle school in Denver was, I mean, I just felt like such an outsider, such a weirdo. I mean, I was the only girl I knew that played electric guitar, rock guitar, and I knew I also had crushes on my best friends, and that was something in my days, you know, in the late 70s, you didn't talk about. So I mean, it was miserable. I had to keep everything in and secrets and all this terrible stuff. But here's the interesting thing is I talk about the girls who were mean and I don't change their names and the girl that was the meanest, Kathy Pepper. But here's the thing, I did a house concert in Denver a year ago and I did a lot of this show and all those people were there at my show and it was like, so they were paying sixty dollars to hear me rip into them. And you know what? Yes, it was like your childhood fantasy. Awesome. But what's the best part about it is they ended up being all really good people.

[14:13] Jill Sobule: Oh wow, and Kathy Pepper especially. And the thing you realize is everybody was almost just as miserable as you were. Wow. And it would have been no great comfort to know that at the time, but so Kathy Pepper, I name her name, I use her name and I said, Kathy, look at you know I'm using your name. Do you want me to change it? And she goes, don't you dare. You know, you keep my name in there. And we've all, and we all like text each other all the time. We have it, we all listen to elementary school together too, but I hadn't seen these people since high school.

[15:46] Sarah Goodman: Oh my gosh.

[15:47] Jill Sobule: And it's so, there's such a turnaround.

[15:52] Sarah Goodman: That is truly awesome that you're able to, years later, say your truth, sing about how you were hurt by these people, but then sort of make amends with them and then also be like, yeah, and look at me now, you know.

[16:08] Jill Sobule: That's so cool. Oh yeah. I'm in December going back to Denver, and we're all on, you know, this, we have, we all text each other, like, oh, we're all gonna get together, and it's all like, you know, it's fun and hard. So here's the one thing too is that in sixth grade, there was a guy, Robbie Naiman, and he was the most popular boy, and he asked me to go steady with him, and I thought I'd do it because, you know, I wanted to impress all my friends. But then like two weeks later, he broke up with me like I cared. I didn't, you know, but then he told everyone I was a bad kisser, but we never kissed. And so yeah, so he came to my Denver show, and he and I hadn't seen him since like eighth grade, and he said, Jill, you know, Jill, I've been following your career, and I'm so excited for you. Will you ever forgive me? And I always wanted to use this line like a Tallulah Bankhead thing, like a Robbie. I always knew you'd come crawling back.

[17:22] Sarah Goodman: Yes, and he was Robbie, yeah, it was so great.

[17:28] Jill Sobule: That's awesome. Oh my god, that really is like childhood fantasy come true, you know. You won out in the end, and now not only have you been able to sort of full circle your own experience in middle school, but now you're sharing this musical, and a bunch of other people are going to be able to benefit from it and feel seen and feel heard and be able to relate to your story. Cause like you said, we all have a miserable time in middle school.

[17:56] Jill Sobule: Yeah, it's interesting because all generations too.

[18:00] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, absolutely.

[18:01] Jill Sobule: It really transcends the times. You know, yeah.

[18:05] Sarah Goodman: It doesn't change.

[18:07] Jill Sobule: Yeah. So you said that you knew you had crushes on your friends in middle school. Were you aware that that meant that you were queer in some way? Did you feel closeted? What was it like for you to grapple with your own sexual identity?

[18:21] Jill Sobule: I mean, I wasn't naive. I knew, you know, I was a smart little worldly kid, and you know, I knew what that meant. And when I think about it, in my mind, because I didn't grow up in any kind of religious family, I felt it was something I had to hide for social reasons. But as opposed to some of my friends that grew up in the same period, I didn't feel inside there was something really wrong about it. I mean, I maybe early on I did, but I think it was more about that I would be ostracized and not accepted and there were no role models. I mean, there was no, this is before Ellen. This is before, you know, Ellen or any Desert Hearts, like all of that stuff was a little bit later.

[19:17] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, yeah, I love Desert Hearts.

[19:19] Jill Sobule: Me too. It's one of the, because lesbian movies can be really awful.

[19:24] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[19:25] Jill Sobule: Desert Hearts is early and a really good one.

[19:28] Sarah Goodman: It's a really good one.

[19:29] Jill Sobule: It's a really, really good one. But yeah, there were no role models for me, so I didn't know. Same thing with music. I mean, the girls, you just were singers, right? You didn't play guitar, you didn't play the instruments. So I felt like an alien. And the queerness thing was, yeah. I mean, also being a lesbian was like gross. It was like Miss Newby, my gym teacher, who wasn't the most attractive thing. I wonder if I hadn't been a little queer girl. If I would have been doing this with you today, I would have had a show. I would have been doing music, you know. I maybe would have been selling real estate. I'd have a lot more money, but would I be not doing the theater stuff, but would I have been doing what I'm doing as a creative being? I don't know.

[20:39] Sarah Goodman: Interesting.

[20:40] Jill Sobule: Yeah. We'll be right back after this.

[20:42] Sarah Goodman: We're back with more good show talking to Jill Sobule. When you were coming up, there was sort of no one out there for you to look at and go, oh, that's me. But then you get to be that for so many other people. What has that experience been like?

[20:58] Jill Sobule: Well, you don't know it at the time. You're doing it, you're just kind of fumbling on. Kiss the Girl came out. It was, there was nothing like that. The original Kiss the Girl.

[21:10] Jill Sobule: The original. There was nothing like that at the time. I mean, and right, this is like '95, '94.

[21:18] Jill Sobule: '95. And I was, I remember in the video, we were gonna have an actual kiss. It was gonna be the first kiss. With the other girl, but the last minute the label chickened out, and it made me pregnant with Fabio's baby. Yeah, but it was a weird kind of queer thing, and I didn't know what to do as far as like how queer to be, how not queer to be, because it was no one. I mean, part of me wishes I would have been a little bolder, but I didn't, you know, I didn't know. It was really, to answer your question, I didn't know what I was doing.

[22:04] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, yeah, you're just sort of taking it as you go.

[22:08] Jill Sobule: Yeah, Kiss the Girl actually I resented it after a while because it was like, ah, but did the label present me as the kind of a novelty artist rather than a serious songwriter, or was Kiss the Girl more of like a goofball thing rather than an actual queer empowerment song? And so there was a while I didn't even want to play it anymore, and then the last years, you know, having people come up to me and saying that that song helped and made a difference, and re-embracing that song.

[22:45] Sarah Goodman: That's cool. What are some of your other favorite songs that you've written? Because you have a pretty big catalog. Being older, you have a lot of songs.

[22:55] Jill Sobule: Uh, there's a song off my Nostalgic Kills record called "Island of Lost Things." I'm proud of writing that. It's interesting the songs that people ask for. They're usually not "Supermodel" or "I Kissed a Girl." When I'm at shows, they're songs like "Jetpack" and "Cinnamon Park." It's interesting because they're all pretty much little story songs.

[23:21] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[23:25] Jill Sobule: People like those story songs. People love stories. That's why people love theater.

[23:30] Sarah Goodman: I know.

[23:34] Jill Sobule: And you know what? Another thing why I love writing for theater. I wish I could paraphrase that song quote that basically says that if someone asks him to write a song or he can't do it, but if there's this frame around the chaos, you've got a story to tell. So as opposed to, "I've got to write for my new record. What am I gonna write about?" Here with the theater, you're collaborating with people. It's like, "Oh no, I need a song here where the two girls get drunk at the party." But you still make it somehow. There's a little bit of narcissism where you always put yourself and your experiences, even if it's about someone else, into it.

[24:21] Sarah Goodman: Well, I think also it's maybe personalization actually makes things more universal. It's the strange dichotomy that like the more specific you can be about your own experience, the more universally felt it will be.

[24:37] Jill Sobule: That's true. Because you know what? We're not as unique as we think we are.

[24:44] Sarah Goodman: There's definitely a lot of overlap, at least.

[24:48] Jill Sobule: Yes. Do you enjoy musical theater? Are you a fan of musicals? You mentioned Sondheim.

[24:52] Sarah Goodman: He's my favorite.

[24:54] Jill Sobule: Yeah, like that. There's some musical theater I do not like, like some of the poppier things. I like Sondheim. I love some new things, and of course I love the classics.

[25:06] Sarah Goodman: Yeah. Do you remember the first time you saw a musical or like a musical movie that impacted you?

[25:11] Jill Sobule: Yes. My parents, when I was little, took me to Vegas. And this is pre-Disney-fied Vegas. But I don't know how they got me in. I was really little. I remember the first thing I saw live was "Hair."

[25:25] Sarah Goodman: Oh, amazing. I love "Hair."

[25:26] Jill Sobule: I got to direct that show like 12 years ago. It's so fun. And there was gonna be naked people in it, but really you just saw outlines. But oh, this is a good story. Tell me everything.

[25:39] Jill Sobule: So my mom bought me the soundtrack record. So I had the record. She was playing cards with her friends, and I would sing out loud to things. So I had the record in my head. I was singing "Sarah, me, Felicio, and the Lingus." And my mom, I mean, I don't remember, but my mother's telling me the story. She ran in like a friend thought it was like the Exorcist child with, "Honey, let's put on the Beatles record." That would be so much. But I didn't—I had no idea. It was like "Supercalifragilistic."

[26:19] Sarah Goodman: Right.

[26:20] Jill Sobule: You're like, "I don't even know what I'm singing. I just—I don't know what these words mean, but they sounded good."

[26:24] Sarah Goodman: Oh my god, yes. I love that.

[26:26] Jill Sobule: I think that was the first thing I ever saw. And then "Fiddler on the Roof," and I wanted to learn all the songs. I loved it. I played "Sunrise, Sunset" was my first public performance at David Miller's Bar Mitzvah. I sang "Sunrise, Sunset."

[26:28] Sarah Goodman: How old were you then?

[26:56] Jill Sobule: What, I was like 12?

[26:56] Sarah Goodman: Wow, that was your first public performance. So look, you've been a theater kid.

[27:02] Jill Sobule: I was a theater kid, whether I knew it or not.

[27:07] Sarah Goodman: I love it. I love that you sang "Sunrise, Sunset" at your friend's Bar Mitzvah. That's really amazing. That's classic.

[27:15] Jill Sobule: So musically, who were some of your inspirations when you started writing, or who inspires you now even?

[27:22] Jill Sobule: Well, I think some of—you know, you can't get over what you heard when you were little, and I had an older brother, six years older than me. So, you know, I had some of the cool stuff. When I was little, I had a lot of eclectic taste, but my brother, I learned about the singer-songwriters and the storytellers from John Prine to Joni to Dylan to Leonard Cohen. And then, of course, I liked my own thing. I love funk like Earth, Wind and Fire. So I had all this eclectic, and then I liked my parents' music, and they liked a lot of jazz. And they also had soundtrack records, and I can't—like I remember listening to "West Side Story" and, you know, freaking out, having that and Dylan and the Beatles records.

[28:14] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[28:14] Jill Sobule: And so I was glad that I had a lot of really great stuff at that age.

[28:21] Sarah Goodman: Cool, yeah. It sounds like it was a pretty rich environment musically in your household.

[28:26] Jill Sobule: Yeah, it was. I was really fortunate. And my parents were great. I mean, they didn't try to discourage me from being different at that time. Like my first instrument—I think my first instrument I wanted to play the drums, so they bought me a drum set.

[28:48] Sarah Goodman: Wow.

[28:48] Jill Sobule: You know, and there were no girl drummers, maybe Karen Carpenter.

[28:53] Sarah Goodman: Karen Carpenter's the only one, yeah.

[28:55] Jill Sobule: Yeah, except they did convince me somehow that guitar would be a much nicer instrument. It would be, you know, you could carry it around. I just think I was probably just so annoying playing those drums. But then my first guitar was an electric guitar, and like I said, you know, girls didn't play it in my day, so I owe my parents a lot, I think, for not discouraging me for my uniqueness.

[29:29] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, they were great.

[29:30] Jill Sobule: That's awesome.

[29:31] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, I think I was fortunate.

[29:31] Jill Sobule: Yeah, yeah. So I just recorded the cast record, and I'm not gonna have physical copies because it's too—you know, I won't have it yet. I just mastered the record. But I've got, you know, I'm gonna make cards for digital downloads. But then this morning, right before I called you, I looked on—you remember? I mean, you're too young, but you know what eight-track sets are.

[29:58] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, absolutely.

[29:58] Jill Sobule: I've seen—I haven't had any, but I have seen the eight-track sets.

[30:03] Sarah Goodman: Yeah.

[30:03] Jill Sobule: I was thinking a little bigger than a cassette tape.

[30:06] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, they're really bulky and dumb, and they were terrible. Although there's something great about them.

[30:12] Jill Sobule: Yeah. And so I was thinking of buying a bulk of old ones and just slapping on my label, you know, sticker on it and putting a, you know, code for people to give my things. I'm always thinking of stuff.

[30:33] Sarah Goodman: I love that idea.

[30:34] Jill Sobule: Certain things I wanted to get, but I could—you know, you couldn't make them like lunch boxes. I don't know what else that's fun.

[30:43] Sarah Goodman: I think that the eight-track idea is cool. I really love physical media. I miss it, actually. I have a huge record collection, and I love vinyl records. I love—I used to love CDs. I had so many CDs. I don't keep the plastic cases anymore, but I still have all the booklets and all of the actual discs. But I miss that. I was just talking to a friend last night about how I miss the physical media where you can like look at the album art and see all the album credits.

[31:09] Jill Sobule: That's another thing that I really wish was available.

[31:12] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, that was a really shitty thing I think Apple did when, you know, they started streaming songs and then later Spotify is that they should have had the credits on each song—who played. I mean, when I was a kid, that was my favorite thing to look at—the album art and look at all the—you'd have all the lyrics there and the credits, the people who played everything, so I knew who all the major session players were and who were the musicians, who was the producer, who was the engineer, where did they record it. All that information used to be on the CD or on the vinyl record, and now on streaming we don't get that. And then you have to dig around the internet to try to find the answers, and I wish that those platforms would include that information.

[32:01] Jill Sobule: They absolutely could. And I used to love the old records, even before me, where you'd buy a record and then it would have like in the back you'd have testimonials or the things. I have one—a zero muscle record where Dorothy Parker's writing the whole, you know, kind of how great it is—regularly reviews. And I loved when that was—I call—I have a record collection too, and I collect oddball ones. That's also—I heard that there's some of the youth that when they're starting to drive because they have old cars, and you know, their parents' old cars, and they have CD players, and some people are starting to buy CDs again.

[32:52] Sarah Goodman: Yeah, I still have all of mine. I've kept them, and I have a little external disc drive that I plug into my computer to listen to them.

[33:01] Jill Sobule: That's great.

[33:02] Sarah Goodman: It's great.

[33:03] Jill Sobule: Oh well, thank you so much for joining me today. I really, really appreciate it.

[33:06] Jill Sobule: Closing it up. I'm so sorry.

[33:10] Sarah Goodman: Closing it up with the Pellegrino. You gotta stay hydrated.

[33:14] Jill Sobule: Thank you. You've been—this is great. You ask good questions. Not everybody does.

[33:18] Sarah Goodman: No, thank you. I was so excited to talk to you, and I'm so excited to see "F*CK7THGRADE."

[33:23] Jill Sobule: November 1 through the 16th, and I think we're off Tuesdays and Wednesdays. So people should come and celebrate and come to my show.

[33:32] Sarah Goodman: Yes, go see "F*CK7THGRADE" with Jill Sobule. Thank you so much, Jill.

[33:35] Jill Sobule: Thank you.

[33:43] Sarah Goodman: Thanks for listening to "Good Show." Please follow "Good Show" on Instagram and TikTok at Good Show Podcast and become part of my Showbiz Chosen Family. You can find "Good Show" on the Broadway Podcast Network at bpn.fm/goodshow and everywhere podcasts are available.