This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Joe Carroll: So an actor is saying his lines and then out of nowhere he just starts singing boxing 70.

[0:15] Dan Tracy: Don't cry for me.

[0:22] Joe Carroll: Okay, this week we're talking to Aisha Jackson of uh Frozen fame.

[0:29] Dan Tracy: I feel like I'm gonna get the wrong name.

[0:30] Joe Carroll: No, I I know, but it sounds kind of like like Aida.

[0:33] Dan Tracy: Yeah, which like hot take. If you don't know the score of Aida, yeah, stop.

[0:38] Joe Carroll: Matty Trumbull had a whole like rant on social media about this.

[0:42] Dan Tracy: Go check out the Aida score.

[0:45] Joe Carroll: The dance of the road.

[0:46] Dan Tracy: Adam Pascal and uh who is the girl who played Aida?

[0:49] Joe Carroll: Heather Headley.

[0:50] Dan Tracy: Oh Heather Headley, bro.

[0:53] Joe Carroll: I saw the out-of-town tryout in Chicago when I was 10.

[0:56] Dan Tracy: Really?

[0:57] Joe Carroll: Yes.

[0:57] Dan Tracy: And crazy story about that. I can't believe I don't know why we're getting on an Aida tangent, but um when they die at the end, there's I mean, it's a Romeo and Juliet story. You know, not giving anything away. They did die at the end.

[1:06] Joe Carroll: Um it used to be in in Chicago, they they used to be buried alive in a tomb, and the tomb would raise up 30 feet in the air in the middle of the, you know, sort of so it's in the middle of the proscenium.

[1:18] Dan Tracy: My mom and I are sitting in the house and it came crashing down.

[1:21] Joe Carroll: No.

[1:22] Dan Tracy: Cable snapped.

[1:23] Joe Carroll: No.

[1:23] Dan Tracy: Thing comes cra the tomb comes crashing down. Adam Pascal and Heather Headley come falling out of the thing.

[1:29] Joe Carroll: Unconscious.

[1:29] Dan Tracy: Unconscious.

[1:30] Joe Carroll: Unconscious.

[1:31] Dan Tracy: Light uh uh uh uh curtain down, lights up. Is there a doctor in the house? My mom grabs me, we run out of the theater.

[1:38] Joe Carroll: It was a write-up about it in the tribune the next day.

[1:40] Dan Tracy: Oh my god. We then get tickets to go back. They they send an email to anybody who or we got a phone call. It was this was like, you know, 2000 or something, and uh so we get tickets to go back, and they just have them die in the tomb, and the tomb is sitting on the ground.

[1:55] Joe Carroll: Come to find out they were fine. They were just like they went to the hospital, they were a little banged up, like some bruises and stuff, but nobody was traumatized a little bit.

[2:02] Dan Tracy: Traumatized, right? I got to meet so Tom Schumacher was a producer on that, the head of Disney Theatrical, Disney produced Aida. And I'm sitting in an event with Tom, and he's one of the biggest creative forces in New York, you know.

[2:14] Joe Carroll: And and I'm finally getting a chance to talk to him. We start talking about Aida, they're trying to revive it and trying to bring it back. And he I tell him that story, and he's like, Oh my god. He's like, I've never talked to anybody who was in the house that night because they were in California.

[2:29] Dan Tracy: They had been in Chicago working on the show, and then they had gotten on a plane to fly to California at like in in the afternoon or something before that performance. They were in California, they got news that happened, they turned around and flew back to Chicago immediately and like met them in the hospital.

[2:43] Joe Carroll: Wow.

[2:43] Dan Tracy: Like a crazy it was yeah. So that's one of Joe's craziest theater stories.

[2:47] Joe Carroll: It's such a great story, and it's weird that we're talking about this, like trying to segue into talking about Aisha, but that's an amazing story.

[2:54] Dan Tracy: Yeah, that's yeah. So that's my that show Aida is so good, which you should all check out. And they're trying to revive it, which is cool. So look out for that.

[3:00] Joe Carroll: Um, but yeah, we just got done talking about Aisha Jackson. She's the standby for Anna in Frozen. She did Waitress, she did Beautiful.

[3:06] Dan Tracy: She's apparently, based on her conversation, done every reading of every new cool musical that he wanted to make sure. She's like one of the most sought after young actresses in the city.

[3:15] Joe Carroll: And like it's funny because like when you're friends with these people and you see how much they work, like in the because the way our industry kind of functions is that there's a lot of stuff that takes a long time to develop, but you see that these certain people are like in all of the developmental stages of everything, which is like the most that's what me and Joe really want to do.

[3:37] Dan Tracy: You want to be the person who they're like always contacting to do those things. And Aisha, like is that.

[3:42] Joe Carroll: Yeah. And everybody wants her.

[3:44] Dan Tracy: Totally. And and so we'll get right to it. But I for me listen, listen towards the end when we she has such a great head on her shoulders about like being present and being where you're at and trying to you know be grateful for where you are.

[3:55] Joe Carroll: And also we got off off mic as she was leaving your apartment but she started talking about uh you know just trusting yourself in auditions because her Anna is so different than Patty's right and everybody around her was like no just do we love your version and we want your version and we're lucky to have your version as the standby version and um and so trusting that when you go into an audition that like you gotta leave it out there and be like if you want me this is what you're getting and if you don't that's totally fine but I'm not gonna not be myself you know.

[3:55] Dan Tracy: Yeah absolutely and you know we got to talk a little bit about her um being a person of color playing a role that was originally um in the film played by a a white actress and and what that has been for her and how that experience is important and the things that we like you know need to pay better attention to in the business and all that and that's all like really super uh important and compelling stuff that we we got to talk about here which was which was really awesome.

[4:53] Joe Carroll: And she's just like really you know super lovely and she's got such a bubbly personality and she just knows who she is and she's you know she's yeah um she's so welcoming of me and the company like you know because we go on a lot together when uh you know Patty's injured or sick or or on you know working on another project or whatever and and she just has been an absolute light because we went on together very early in my run when I'm still figuring out what the hell I was doing, and she was just like she you know sort of holds holding my hand and like okay, off we go. You're everything's fine. You're fine, yeah. You know, I got you. You know.

[4:53] Dan Tracy: And she just has that that per you know that personality. So yeah. So uh this is uh and we really want to talk to her because of the Venn diagram of our shows. She originated in Waitress, or she originated, she was an original Broadway company of Waitress. She's currently in Frozen, so she's like this, you know. If you see it's like Dan, the circle of Dan and the circle of Joe and Aisha's in the middle.

[5:43] Joe Carroll: In the middle of us.

[5:45] Dan Tracy: Yeah, that's so true. So uh, so yeah, so check out our interview with Aisha.

[5:51] Joe Carroll: I still I still don't love it.

[5:52] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I don't know, I don't love it either.

[5:54] Joe Carroll: Here's Aisha.

[5:56] Aisha Jackson: I want to say that first of all, thank you for Aisha's here. Thank you for thank you for coming.

[6:00] Dan Tracy: Hi's hard, she's already been to the gym.

[6:03] Aisha Jackson: I know it's early, it's 10 o'clock in the morning.

[6:05] Joe Carroll: I guess 8 a.m. class.

[6:08] Aisha Jackson: I'm I'm in my bed asleep right now with this microphone.

[6:12] Dan Tracy: You don't look at the color.

[6:14] Aisha Jackson: No, I'll you know.

[6:15] Dan Tracy: No, I had a little bit uh of yes, I was up later than I wanted to yesterday.

[6:20] Aisha Jackson: So yeah, yeah.

[6:21] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I was too because Patti Murin's Hallmark movie uh premiered last night and we went to Congratulations, Patsy!

[6:28] Aisha Jackson: Yes, yeah.

[6:29] Dan Tracy: So check out uh Patty on the Hallmark channel. Um so one of the reasons that we wanted to have you on Guys Who Like Musicals, uh, because we're guys who like musicals, is is that you did Dan's show and you're currently in Joe's show.

[6:42] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, Waitress, and you're in Frozen.

[6:44] Joe Carroll: Yeah, what do you like better?

[6:48] Aisha Jackson: Jesus.

[6:48] Dan Tracy: Joe gets so petty on this show.

[6:50] Aisha Jackson: So funny.

[6:51] Dan Tracy: No, it was actually crazy. They're just both experiences of their own that I treasure.

[6:59] Aisha Jackson: And you're so blessed.

[7:00] Dan Tracy: I know.

[7:00] Aisha Jackson: No, that was it was supposed to be a joke.

[7:02] Dan Tracy: I get um a bad joke.

[7:03] Aisha Jackson: No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. We're just we're just teasing you, Joe. Don't be sensitive.

[7:06] Joe Carroll: Well, I'm kind of sensitive, Dan.

[7:08] Dan Tracy: Wow.

[7:08] Joe Carroll: It's okay.

[7:08] Dan Tracy: Oh my god.

[7:10] Aisha Jackson: What what specifically do you like about my performance?

[7:13] Joe Carroll: Okay. Well, specifically, uh Joe Carroll really brings something new to the role.

[7:20] Dan Tracy: And that's all the time we have for today. Thank you so much.

[7:25] Aisha Jackson: Um how did you how did you get involved in Waitress?

[7:28] Dan Tracy: Because I was for well, you made your Broadway debut in Beautiful.

[7:32] Aisha Jackson: I did.

[7:32] Dan Tracy: Um, let's start with that one. What was that? What was that experience like?

[7:36] Aisha Jackson: I it was a year, a year, a year after moving to the city. I graduated from the University of Northern Colorado.

[7:45] Dan Tracy: Oh, cool.

[7:46] Aisha Jackson: I uh we I just found this out the other day. And I work with college high school students all the time, and that's a place that we always tell them to look. It it's a kind of this under the radar musical theater. Greeley, Colorado.

[7:58] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah.

[7:58] Aisha Jackson: Yeah.

[7:58] Dan Tracy: Yeah. And Mike Ruckles used to be on faculty there, right?

[8:00] Aisha Jackson: Yes. Mike Ruckles' final year there was my first year.

[8:04] Dan Tracy: Okay.

[8:04] Aisha Jackson: So we kind of like he taught our showcase class, and then he left and he was going to New York, and everyone was like, no, don't leave. And I was like, yes, if he leaves, then that means I have a voice teacher when I get there. I'm like, this is about the long game.

[8:17] Dan Tracy: Right, right.

[8:17] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, but I graduated in 2013 and I moved to New York August 2013.

[8:23] Dan Tracy: Um, and got a one-way ticket. My mom was like, Can you just stay a little longer? I was like, I'll stay a few more days, but I'm leaving.

[8:30] Joe Carroll: Where are you from originally?

[8:31] Aisha Jackson: I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. From College Park. Um and I, yeah, I got a one way ticket standing by from like everyone works for Delta down there. So everyone knows someone who works for Delta, so I'm like, hey, can you give me a standby to Kita?

[8:46] Dan Tracy: And so that's what happened. Um, got on that flight. I had like four or five bags. I had a hundred and fifty dollars in my bank account.

[8:54] Aisha Jackson: Um, I had no place to stay, no job. I was just like, here we go.

[9:00] Dan Tracy: And um, yeah, came here, and my cousin had like a basement apartment, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna sleep on her food ton, and then I'm gonna go to my grandpa's house and I'm gonna do this.

[9:08] Aisha Jackson: But that was before I understood what couch hopping in New York City was and how hard it was from borough to borough and all these different things.

[9:15] Dan Tracy: Right.

[9:15] Aisha Jackson: So I'm just like at her basement apartment, and then her roommate moves out, and I was like, Oh, can I can I have the room? Okay, great. So then I was like, okay, have an apartment, mom. Look, look what happened.

[9:26] Dan Tracy: Um, but yeah, I just I worked at Capizio and like stayed there. And um, yeah, I auditioned for Beautiful a year after being here, and I auditioned for the tour.

[9:37] Aisha Jackson: And it, but it was a year in advance, and I was like, this is a long, this is wow. It's in a year. Maybe, maybe there's a spot on Broadway that's opening up. Who knows? And so then I auditioned, I walk out and had a call back, did it, did the whole thing. Then my agent calls me and she's like, Hey, so they don't want you for the tour, but you know, uh, they were wondering if in the meantime you would uh swing on Broadway.

[9:37] Dan Tracy: And I was like, Oh, let me think about it. Yes, I literally was like, What?

[10:06] Aisha Jackson: Are you sick? So um, I was like, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do that. Let's do that.

[10:11] Joe Carroll: She set you up.

[10:11] Aisha Jackson: That's the worst thing. Hey, I'm sorry, this is not the tour's not going your way. But okay, you're gonna make your Broadway debut. And I was like, and then they're like, they were wondering, I'm like, yeah, let me think about it. Yes, what?

[10:25] Dan Tracy: Yeah, um, so yeah, that was amazing. Um, and that was in the fall of 2014, I guess. And so I made my debut January 23rd, 2015.

[10:34] Aisha Jackson: That's amazing.

[10:35] Dan Tracy: And yeah, I swung over there. There, uh, Alicia was leaving to do Hamilton, and then they popped the swing up into an ensemble roll, and so there was a spot for me.

[10:45] Aisha Jackson: And I was like, this is cool.

[10:47] Dan Tracy: And how long did you do that?

[10:48] Aisha Jackson: I only did it for nine months. Um, yeah, I covered six of the roles over there, and ended up doing like five of them. And then Diane Paulus, my first show in the city was with Diane Paulus doing Witness Uganda at the American Repertory Theater.

[11:05] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[11:06] Aisha Jackson: Um, and I got written up at Capizio for going to that callback. I was like, I didn't come here to sell shoes. I came here to be on Broadway.

[11:16] Dan Tracy: And uh went to the callback and I couldn't get my shifts covered. And I was like, I'm going. I have to go. I can't, it's Diane Paulus. Like, come on.

[11:24] Joe Carroll: It's still in your your permanent record at Capizio. You can walk in there and be like, take a picture of that.

[11:28] Aisha Jackson: Yeah. I'd probably have it somewhere because I was like, I'm keeping this because this was the day that I had to make a choice.

[11:35] Dan Tracy: Um, but yeah, I went and got Witness Uganda. We did it at American Repertory Theater, and then like a I guess a year and a half or two years later, we did it at second stage.

[11:46] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I love that music.

[11:48] Aisha Jackson: That show was so cool.

[11:49] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah.

[11:50] Aisha Jackson: I still get the invisible thread stuck in my head.

[11:53] Dan Tracy: There's a long time.

[11:54] Aisha Jackson: Which is what they changed the title to, right?

[11:56] Dan Tracy: Yes.

[11:57] Aisha Jackson: And is it back now?

[11:58] Dan Tracy: It's and now it's back to Witness Uganda. They just did it in LA.

[12:01] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, my friend, my good my best friend from college just did Tyrone's track in in LA.

[12:06] Dan Tracy: Yes.

[12:07] Aisha Jackson: Um, so we we did that. Um, I ended up leaving Beautiful to go and do the off-Broadway production. I left my first Broadway show to do my first off Broadway show.

[12:17] Dan Tracy: Nice, amazing.

[12:18] Aisha Jackson: Um, but it was something I believed in, and it's a beautiful story. And we ended up going to Uganda to meet the children, like the students that they wrote the show about.

[12:26] Dan Tracy: Wow.

[12:26] Aisha Jackson: So that was like, I was like, this is once in a lifetime. Like I have to do this. So yeah, we did it at second stage, Invisible Thread. And in the middle of that, I was doing Double Duty, which I love.

[12:39] Joe Carroll: Yep.

[12:40] Aisha Jackson: On Bronx Tale at Paper Mill, but I also did Waitress with Diane.

[12:45] Dan Tracy: Nice in the middle of that. Did you were you involved like in the labs in the beginning?

[12:48] Aisha Jackson: Before ART.

[12:49] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[12:50] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, well, no, no, no. ART, when they were doing ART, I think um the labs were after ART.

[12:51] Dan Tracy: Yes.

[12:51] Aisha Jackson: The labs were after. I wasn't a part of the ART cast.

[13:00] Dan Tracy: Got it.

[13:01] Aisha Jackson: Um, I did the labs when they came back into the city.

[13:03] Dan Tracy: Got it.

[13:03] Aisha Jackson: And like I heard a lot of things changed after that.

[13:06] Dan Tracy: Yes.

[13:07] Aisha Jackson: Like I heard that.

[13:07] Dan Tracy: Oh yeah.

[13:08] Aisha Jackson: On the first day of rehearsal, um, we had um, I can't wait. Can you?

[13:13] Dan Tracy: Um, what's the ensemble?

[13:15] Aisha Jackson: It's in the waiting room. I can't wait.

[13:16] Dan Tracy: Yeah, the ensemble.

[13:18] Aisha Jackson: I wish there was a way to integrate a new little life into ours.

[13:22] Dan Tracy: That's my favorite line, and then it got cut.

[13:25] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, and now it's like literally we learned it the first, I think it was the first day, and the next day they were like, So we're gonna cut this, and we were like, Oh, okay. Cool.

[13:33] Dan Tracy: Um, but yeah, they they chopped a lot of different things.

[13:37] Aisha Jackson: Yeah.

[13:38] Dan Tracy: Um after that. And the hospital scene was like 25 minutes long or something.

[13:42] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, they were oh my god, they were like, um, we had they had like freeze, they would freeze and then they would go back into like labor and then they would freeze and choose another. Like it was a lot.

[13:52] Dan Tracy: Oh wow.

[13:54] Aisha Jackson: I was a resident nurse in the like in that scene that got chopped. I still had the little tag though. Someone came to my house and they saw it. They were like, What's that from? Did you used to work? And I was like, nope. Just played one of the things that I'm gonna do.

[14:07] Dan Tracy: Yeah, that's from Waitress. Um, but yeah, it changed a lot. Um, but yeah, I ended up doing that, and then we after the lab, we went back and I got fired from Bronx Tale and we did a Waitress.

[14:20] Aisha Jackson: I don't know if you want to put that in there. You don't have to.

[14:22] Joe Carroll: I just got fired from Frozen, so shut up.

[14:27] Aisha Jackson: What do you mean?

[14:28] Joe Carroll: What do you mean?

[14:28] Aisha Jackson: Do you mean if you actually want to talk about it, we can talk about it? Because I think that stuff is interesting.

[14:33] Dan Tracy: It is a good one. If you don't want to talk about it, then we don't have to.

[14:48] Aisha Jackson: And so I went in for Bronx Tale and um was in that ensemble, and we did it at Paper Mill after Invisible Thread closed. We started Bronx Tale like the very next day and dipped that at Paper Mill, but in the middle of that, Waitress was beginning for Broadway. And I had already said yes to that. And my agent at the time, I was like, Are you sure we're gonna be able to do both? And she was like, Oh yeah, they let us, they gave us the okay. They said they would work around the scheduling, and I was like, Wow, okay, cool. So then we got to the time to begin rehearsals for Waitress, and I was an understudy in Bronx Tale, and Waitress didn't know that. And so once we looked at the rehearsal schedule, because we had to have understudy rehearsals, it looked like I was only available to come to Waitress once a week.

One day out of the week. And you know, Paper Mill, you gotta get there. So that's uh time out of the day. Yeah, and and it just did not work out, and so it became a like tug of war between Bronx Tale rehearsals and Waitress rehearsals, and Bronx Tale was in their like final previews, and it was like the last day of previews, and it was like the first week of rehearsals for Waitress, and I just had to like make a choice of which rehearsal I was on the schedule for both rehearsals.

[16:14] Joe Carroll: Fuck.

[16:15] Aisha Jackson: So you were fired because you were just too bold, yeah. Not because you did anything, but it made me feel horrible because I was like, if someone ever sees this, or if like they're not gonna be like, oh, Aisha's agents didn't tell them that she was an understudy, or oh, you know, it's not gonna, it just looks bad to me. It just looks bad.

[16:37] Joe Carroll: Does it but do you feel like that stuff has actually followed you, or is that just you were just scared of it?

[16:41] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, I was just very scared because I mean that was like towards the beginning of my career, and I'm like, I have Waitress's original Broadway credit that's like been a goal of mine to originate with a show, and like it's right here at my feet, but then you also have Bronx Tale, and I don't want to piss them off, and I want to be loyal to them. Um it was just it was a lot. It was I cried a lot in my dressing room in Bronx Tale and would like tell the whole cast, like I went and apologized to all of them. I wrote apology letters, like, but then I got written up and we opened the show, and I wrote all these apology letters, and then I was like, We did it. I opened, I'm not fired. There are no more conflicts with the schedules, and then they called me and they were like, So effective immediately, you are terminated. And I was like, Oh wow, oh wow, okay. I think they just wanted to get through opening weekend, and you know, without a fuss, right?

[17:33] Joe Carroll: And yeah, that's tough.

[17:34] Aisha Jackson: Well, I'm so sorry. That's a good idea. And yeah, it's just it was just scheduling and it was a lack of communication, and right, yeah. The technical like things about the job that's hard.

[17:45] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[17:45] Aisha Jackson: Yeah.

[17:46] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[17:46] Aisha Jackson: That you would never want to be able to do that.

[17:47] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[17:48] Aisha Jackson: But that's interesting.

[17:49] Joe Carroll: It's hard when it gets put on the actor too. Cause like, because like that to me is like you were told this is gonna work out.

[17:54] Aisha Jackson: Yeah.

[17:55] Joe Carroll: And also I have this this like actor first rah-rah thing where like everybody is looking out for themselves. So whatever is in the best interest of their own thing is what they're gonna do. The producers are gonna do it, the director's gonna do it. But then if the actor wants to do it, all of a sudden it's now you're difficult to work with or something.

[18:11] Aisha Jackson: And that's what I felt in that moment. I was like, oh my, because I had sat down with everyone at Bronx Tale with the artistic director at Paper Mill. I had sat down with a director with a stage management, which everyone, and everyone was on my side, like, oh, this was a mess up, like you know, agent at the time, like didn't really take care of it the way that they should have. And I and they also didn't want to take responsibility for it. And I was like, guys, come on. Come on. I'm like pleading with the creative team, and I'm like over here pleading with Waitress's creative team, and like everyone is being so supportive, but at the end of the day, I have to make a decision because it's not gonna work. You can't do both, right?

[18:47] Joe Carroll: Right.

[18:48] Aisha Jackson: So yeah.

[18:48] Joe Carroll: Right.

[18:49] Aisha Jackson: So then so that gets resolved. And then Waitress, the that whole process, the Broadway process really kicks into full gear.

[18:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[18:56] Aisha Jackson: Um, and I texted our friend Ryan Vasquez last night, and I was like, is there anything, any little tidbits from that original process? And he and he was like, honestly, so many. And he said to bring up so many. He said to bring up uh how seriously you took the dancing during the wedding.

[19:16] Joe Carroll: Everyone's favorite part of the musical for sure.

[19:19] Aisha Jackson: Oh my god, it's the worst, which is it's so it's such oh my god, but we would yeah, yeah, I I took it seriously, yeah, for sure. We get on stage and I'm like, all right, here we go. Let's see these moves. Like, took it so seriously to the point that we definitely got notes to like tone it down. Because there's another scene happening, and you're like, We're watching you. And I'm like, I mean, I can't help what the people want. You know, I gotta give the people what they want. But yes, Ryan and I had so much fun in there at the wedding together. Um, oh my god, I miss him. I love him.

[19:55] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, it it was it was really cool. It comes with the struggles, you know. It's a new musical, and you're building and changing, and you have people who have done it, and you have people who haven't done it. And it was a it was a crazy process.

[20:07] Joe Carroll: Can I ask? We have a lot of people ask in the DMs about like what the process is like in tech for for an opening of Broadway show. And I know you guys have both experienced that, but I would love to hear um, you know, if you have any, were there any crazy stories of things coming in at the last minute or like changes being made, like the my the the funniest, well not funniest, I think the most difficult challenge about tech is when you get a change or a new song or a new scene. Okay, let's say it's Wednesday and we're in rehearsal and we get that new scene, but Wednesday night we need to do the old scene because we're not gonna put it in until Thursday night.

[20:48] Aisha Jackson: Right. That to me is weird because on Wednesday you're teaching a new scene, but Wednesday night I need to do what I did last night, but tomorrow I'm gonna do something different. That is such a like, what? Don't give it to me. But it's like we have to you maximize our time. This is the time that we have to work on it.

[21:04] Joe Carroll: Right.

[21:05] Aisha Jackson: Um, for Waitress, we put in Club Knocked Up in a day. We had kept so the like the song that I sang earlier, the I can't wait, is what that transition song used to be. But since they chopped it, they were like trying to figure out a way to make it work. And we had like choreography and we have music, but there was I don't think there was singing there. And then Sarah and Nadia pulled us into the side room and they're like, okay, so we're gonna put this in tonight. The harmonies.

[21:30] Joe Carroll: Oh my god.

[21:30] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, because yeah. We were like, they're tight. Okay, cool, cool, cool. We ran it so many times over and over and over, and we did it, and it was nerve-wracking, but we did it, we figured it out in a day.

[21:43] Joe Carroll: Yeah, in a day.

[21:44] Aisha Jackson: They were like, All right, we're gonna put this in tonight. And we were like, Okay, cool, let's do it. You're also quick changing into it, yes, quick changing into it. Sing the song choreography in a day and run away.

[21:55] Joe Carroll: Right.

[21:55] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, and like these tight, close harmonies. We're like, thanks, Sarah. It's like a doo-wop Motown kind of like, and it's funny because you and Jesse are both been in Beautiful, yes, and Beautiful. I what she came in after Kimber. But she did say track I did in Beautiful, right? And yeah, now she's in the same track I did in Waitress.

[22:15] Joe Carroll: Yeah, and it's it I just think it's interesting because I know that that section is particularly like kind of calls to that Motown sound, which is which is interesting.

[22:24] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, well, I I think it's it's interesting too because you said that is a transition moment, and so like if you see the show, yeah, a lot of people would probably just like, oh, that's that's a cute little moment that maybe it's not you know, they're gonna remember, you know, she used to be mine or whatever. You're gonna remember these big moments from the show, but they're not gonna remember that you guys spent a whole day, or they're not gonna know, they just spent a whole day learning the tightest, most intricate harmonies. You had like five or six hours to rehearse it to then put it in the show that night, and it was your sweating bullets, it was so hard, and then everybody's like, Oh, that was a nice transition. Look at that. Now we're in a different place. What's the story now? Like it's like right if you pay attention to that minutia.

[23:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[23:01] Aisha Jackson: Like, that's really what I find tech to be.

[23:03] Yes.

[23:04] Joe Carroll: It's a lot of that like, how are we gonna get from this moment to that moment?

[23:07] Aisha Jackson: Um, and it takes forever.

[23:09] Joe Carroll: It takes forever. How long did you technically Waitress? Do you remember how long you were actually in tech for?

[23:14] Aisha Jackson: I think we had uh I think we had I mean we had the normal month of previews, which to me is still tech. That's all tech all day. And that's one thing people might not really know when you're in previews. When you see a show of previews you're in rehearsal from 12 to 5 or from you know, maybe even 10 to 10 to 6 or something before the show back. Before the show, it's crazy. Um, so maybe like I feel like our tech process was like three or four weeks.

[23:42] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[23:42] Aisha Jackson: Yeah.

[23:43] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that feels that feels right.

[23:44] Aisha Jackson: Yeah.

[23:45] Joe Carroll: And then as you're you're you're moving through. Did you understudy a Waitress?

[23:50] Aisha Jackson: No.

[23:50] Joe Carroll: Nice.

[23:51] Aisha Jackson: I was the only person in the cast who did not understudy.

[23:54] Joe Carroll: So you didn't have to didn't have to go anywhere on Thursday and Friday afternoon.

[23:57] Aisha Jackson: No, I did not. It was it's funny though, because when I auditioned, I auditioned thinking that I would be understudying. And I learned the music and everything. And when we got into the room, agent at the time, uh, they're gonna announce the uh understudies in the covers when you get there on the first day. I was like, oh, okay, cool. Got there on the first day. I opened my script and they have listed everyone who's doing whatever. I was like, Oh, my name's not on there. Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Uh this is weird because I thought I expected it, you know.

[24:31] Joe Carroll: Right, right.

[24:31] Aisha Jackson: And so then it took me like shifting my perspective to be like, okay, cool. You don't have to come to understudy rehearsal. You don't have this responsibility. So free yourself of it. Don't be upset that you didn't get it. That doesn't mean that you aren't capable. Right. Just that it didn't fit. So here we go. Keep it moving. And then we had some a series of events, and they needed someone to cover Don. And I was like, oh, you want me to do it? And I and at that moment I just didn't feel it didn't feel I'd already gone through this whole getting myself and and I saw everyone going to understudy rehearsals every single week. And I was like, mm-hmm. And you know, I like to do double duty. So I was like, if I do that, it's not gonna be able to Yeah, and it's a great point.

Sometimes actually not understudying then frees you up to do all sorts of stuff during the week. And that's that's huge. Cause then you can develop uh all sorts of other uh things and put irons in the fire.

[25:25] Joe Carroll: Um and I my one of my best friends, Max Clayton, who I bring up on the podcast almost weekly, uh that he was like that at Moulin Rouge when he was like they were like, Would you like to understudy? And he was like, I'm good. You know, he was like, I don't I don't really need to do that right now. It's a ton of responsibility anyway without it.

[25:42] Aisha Jackson: It is um and then as you're you're you're moving through that process, and then when when does Frozen sort of first rear its head?

[25:42] Aisha Jackson: Frozen this is so funny because it always and it's a it's a blessing and I love it, but it always comes at like this like you have to make a choice between the two. That's what happened with Bronx Tale and Waitress, and um I'm in Waitress and I was I was doing the workshop of Ain't Too Proud. And they started rehearsal. I mean, they started auditions for Frozen. So I'm in the middle of doing that, and I auditioned for Frozen, and I'm like, oh my god, this is really cool. Like what? And I originally went in for the role of Elsa. Um, and I remember uh I'm with CGF and I remember Michael Goddard calling me me like, so they want to see you for the role of Elsa. And I was like, they want to see me for the role of Elsa.

And he was like, Yeah, and I was like, they must see me. And he's like, Yes. And I was like, okay, cool, let's do it. So I learned, let it go, and like, you know, go into the room for um for Telsie, and I leave, and they're like, Great, we're gonna call you back. Wear something different. She's the older sister. And I'm like, I am an older sister. I literally have a younger sister. And they're like, Yeah, but you need to be like a little bit. They're like, you're so bubbly and youthful, and like, like, you know, just try to think of her in this way. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. So then I like put on a different outfit, and I'm like, I'm gonna get this. And they were like, you know, make yourself a little grounded.

So like I was like, okay, I'm not gonna wear heels. So then I go in and there's like these boots and this little dress, and then I sit down and I look in the waiting room, and I look around at all the Elsa's and what they're wearing, and then I look around at all the Annas and what they're wearing, and I look at myself and I say, You dressed like Anna today. I'm like trying to be like grounded, and you're gonna be the older sister, and I'm like, I just laughed to myself. I was like, oh, whatever.

[27:39] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, go in, do what you do. So I did it, and then I come back out, and they were like, So, I don't know if we'll call you back for Elsa, we'll we'll see, but they were wondering if you wouldn't mind reading the sides for Anna. And I was like, sure.

[27:53] Joe Carroll: Right, right, right, right.

[27:53] Aisha Jackson: Because I just laughed to myself, I was like, you did this to yourself.

[27:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's like it was the boots, wasn't it?

[27:58] Aisha Jackson: I was like, it was the boots, that's what it was. I was trying to be grounded. Um, but yeah, and I laughed, and I was like, of course, she's a principal, and she goes on a journey and she falls in love, and she like she is a huge part of this show, and like telling this story, I was like, certainly, I loved him.

[28:15] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[28:16] Aisha Jackson: So um, yes, I took that, and um, and then they they I I made it to final callbacks with what I thought was the final callback. We were like on a stage and doing the things, and then they're like you know, partnering you up with different people, and I'm like, wow, this is cool.

[28:32] Joe Carroll: Well, that that was we we talked to John Riddle uh the other day, and he mentioned that day.

[28:37] Aisha Jackson: I met him that day.

[28:38] Joe Carroll: So that so what was that like? You you don't for people who don't know, you don't audition on stages in New York City. You audition in a small room with a piano. Uh like it's not you're not on stage, it's not like you know the original production of a chorus line or something, right? You know, right. No, you're in this small white room, and then no, come to this theater, and I'm like, okay. So then we get there, and it's you just see all these people, there's so many people there. And I ended up being there for like uh it was all day. Wow, it was like from something crazy like 10 or 12 until like six or something like that. Wow, it was weird. I met Jelani. I remember Casey was there. Um, uh, I read with like Betsy Wolf. I read with like with John Riddle, I read with so many different people.

[29:27] Aisha Jackson: You know, Dorsey was there. And Toto was there, Kara Lindsay was there, like all these different people. And so I'm like, first of all, I'm like, this is cool. Like I've made it to the point where I'm like meeting with all these other people. And um, yeah, but they brought me in and they're like, okay, sing, and then they're like, go back out, and then Bernie comes out and it's like, okay, this is what I need you to do. He talks to me, and I'm like, okay, and then you go back in, you do it again, and then they're like, okay, read with this person. Now read with this person. And then and throughout the day, you see them sending people away, but you're like still there, so you're like, okay, this could be good.

And then they call me in again at the end of the day, and they're like, let's change the key. It was true love. Let's change the key of it so that it sits higher in your voice and let us hear it. And so where do you go? I'm doing all. And I'm like, I think they like me. And then like Kristen is like crying in the um audience, and I'm like, wow, the guy moved her. Like, you know, you're like, all these things are running through your head. And I was like, cool. And then I leave. And then my agent comment, he's like, So they want to see you for another callback. And I was like, wait, that wasn't it? That wasn't that wasn't it? I thought that was like final. And they're like, again. And you know, what else do you want?

I have nothing else to give you. Yeah. And then I like find myself getting sick. So of course I'm like, well, that one was great. And then if I come back, and you know, anyway, we do all of those things. And um they call me and they were like, so you didn't book Anna, but they want you to stand by. And I was like, really? Okay. And one of the reasons in Waitress I didn't want to understudy again was because the anxiety that I received from being a swing and Beautiful, I loved it. But those moments of like sitting there and watching everybody else get ready always like made me feel weird sometimes. Like, you know, you go back and forth the ebb and flow. And then the anxiety of like not knowing who you might be that evening.

Right. So in Beautiful, there were six choices of like you could be any of these women tonight. It's like Russian roulette. Yeah, and the challenge of it was like, oh, this is cool. Like, challenge your brain to see like what you can do. Yeah. And I loved it. I do feel like I have like a swing brain. But I was also like, okay, do you remember everything? What are you supposed to do? Okay, this is that, not that track. This cue is for that one, not for this, you know, the back and forth. Totally. So for Waitress, when I was like, nah, I think I'm okay. But then standing by presented another vein of that same thing. And I was like, huh. Okay, so the standby, but just for her. So if I go on, that's the only thing I'm responsible for.

Right. They were like, yeah. And I was like, okay. All right, let me think about this for a second. It took me so long to say yes. Also, because I was waiting to see what was happening with Ain't Too Proud. Sure. And I knew they were going to Berkeley. But Frozen was like, so here's Denver and Broadway. And Ain't Too Proud was like, Maybe. We'll see. We'll see what's happening. I think we're going to Berkeley. So it was like that moment of like, what do you wait on? But when Ain't Too Proud, it's like these beautiful human beings, this beautiful story, this beautiful team to work with. And also, it doesn't often happen that a person of color gets to be in a cast and look around and see themselves everywhere.

Right. So I was like, wow, this would be like my first time, you know, and Witness Uganda was that. But I was like, this is on its way to Broadway. And it's like, I was like, oh, okay, cool. Like, I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna see. And it just it didn't. They were like, do you want this or not? Like, do you want to do Frozen or not? And I was like, Yeah, yes, yes. Yeah, yes, I think that's what I want to do. And I knew that the opportunity for Frozen was a beautiful and amazing thing that I should not pass up on. Right. But it was just, you know, Ain't Too Proud was on the other side. And I was like, when you knew everybody knew that was gonna be so special. Ain't Too Proud. Even before when they did the early readings, everybody knew it was gonna be huge and they knew it was gonna be special.

Yeah. So, but like at that time, Ain't Too Proud didn't want to go out with you. Like Frozen was like, Will you go out with me? Right. And it's like, well, I kinda wanna I want to do that. And it was funny because I kinda want to date. Yes, and it was funny because Ain't Too Proud, everyone word of mouth was like, Can you go out with me? Right, but I didn't have a piece of paper signing the line. Right, right. We are we are together. Right. So yeah. So I was like, Y'all got a piece of paper for me. They were like, No, we don't have anything. Yeah, we don't have any dinner reservations, but like Yeah, we don't have reservations, but we know like we know the restaurant we want to go to. Right, right, right.

But we gotta see if they have space for us. That's basically what it was. And and it's like, you know, you call and they're like, you know, the wait won't be long. We'll see. But I was like, well, I need to know because like my table is ready over there at this other spot. At a really good restaurant. Right, right. This really cute guy wants to look, you know. This is a good this is a good analogy. I'm proud of this one. Good one, Joe. No, but that's really hard because I mean you just you have to make a decision, you know, that the choosing the choosing what the And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna be Frozen. And then it's been like three, I mean, three years. Yeah, we started basically later.

For Denver, we started June 2017. You you you there was a back and forth on Instagram with somebody about um one of the times. Yeah, when you went on and it was the hair thing. Yeah. And I and I wondered like you were so eloquent when you in your kind of in the comebacks and the way that you were like trying to talk this person, because I I saw it and immediately was like was like ignorant person, blah blah blah. And you like took the time, even in an age of like social media being horrible, to like actually talk to somebody over an Instagram platform. Yeah. Um, well, I've had it's funny because I've had a few people DM me, and it starts with like a when I walked into the theater and I saw that a they'll I've even had someone say a colored person, but they're like from a different country, and I'm like, Oh boy, skin crawl.

But even in that, in that entire exchange, it went from them just saying that them seeing a person of color kind of threw them off, but throughout the show, they were much more accepting of it. And they walked out of the theater feeling differently than they did walking in. And so I was like, okay, let's start with that. Thank you. Um, and then I asked, I always ask if it's okay for me to share people's messages that they send me, whether they are, I mean, if they're negative, I don't ask them. But you know, sometimes if they start like they're gonna be negative and then they move to a positive place. I just want I share it because I want everyone to see, like, one with the negative ones, racism and things like that are still very active and alive in our country.

And a lot of people don't think that it is, or they're like, oh, whatever, you know. But I'm like, yeah, it does happen. I so I put it out there because I want people to see what we deal with. I also know that I try my best to like acknowledge it and and respond to it in a professional way in a way to like let me let me give you some knowledge um so that you won't do this to someone someone else. And just like I don't think that we should respond to hate with hate. Like clearly there it was the way that you were raised or the way that you're whatever, however you think, but in that moment, it doesn't behoove me to get upset and to get pissed and to like go off on you. Right. Because where I just want to come from a place of love and light, and I want to be able to let you know, like, it's okay.

And I know you feel like that, but that's really not valid and it's hurtful. And like, and this is why. And maybe no one would ever tell you that or take the time to explain that to you. Right. Because it's not my job to do so, but yeah, that's the thing that's so unfair is that you're in this position where you have to teach someone now. It's like that's not what you signed up for. You're here to be an actress. You know, yeah. Yeah. And they don't, they don't like I don't Joe and I don't have to teach anyone anything. Right. No. Right. Right. And that's that's the thing with people of color, which is hard. It's like that line of like, ugh, I'm so done with this. But it's also that line of like, I don't want this to happen to someone else.

And I also don't want to continue dealing with it. So if I call it out in such a way that brings light to like you're being an idiot and you're being ignorant, but I do it in a way that is kind, maybe they'll actually hear it. Yeah. And maybe they'll think about it. They might not, they might not, you know, they might continue thinking and feeling and speaking in that ignorant way, but I'll take a stab at it. It was interesting because it was about like Anna has in the movie has this has red has the red this like this with these red pigtails or whatever. Right. And and you know, it felt like this person was coming at you who was younger. It felt like they were they were a young person. Um, you know, and I think it's easier, you know, easier to you know teach a young dog new tricks as opposed to like some old racist person.

But like if you get a young racist person, you might be able to be like, hey, you know, hey, but that was the thing. And you know, so you were you were like, this is a fictional character, and I my hair looks like a lot of little girls' hair, and and I'm playing this part, and this part it needs to be representative of a lot of things, you know. Well, I sat down with David for my hair free. David uh Brian. Brian Brown, yeah, yeah. Dude, the hair designer of Frozen. The hair designer Frozen. I sat down with him. I remember in the very beginning, and we were doing our wig fittings, and he was like, okay, so I've pulled some like because I know black women who have red hair and they look amazing.

So I mean, my little sister has dyed her hair red, and I'm like, okay, cool, girl, you look good. But um, David he came to me and he was like, So I have pulled some red, some reddish browns. We can mix and you know, we can have highlights of red if you desire, like, but like figure out what color works with your skin tone and things like that. And I was like, oh, cool. So then we're sitting there and he puts on this like brown base and then like put some little red highlights in it, and I was like, uh, maybe not that brown, maybe this brown with this red, and so we go back and forth, and then I was like, you know what? I can we just do brown? Like, can we just do my hair color? And he was like, certainly.

He was like, Disney has approved, like you have the choice in this matter. And I was like, Thank you. I appreciate that. And I think I think we should just go with my hair. And he was like, Okay, and if you change your mind and you want to add things, we can always add. And I was like, cool. And I walked away from that in that moment. I was just like, Yeah, I don't, that's not how I look. Like, that's not right me. And if I'm going to be stepping into this character, one, I want it to be a resemblance of myself, but also all these little beautiful chocolate drops that do not have red hair that are capable of playing the part of Anna, that look up to Anna. I want them to be able to see themselves in me fully.

So if I go out there with a red wig on, it's like uh, you know, yeah, I just want them to see themselves. And so that I I was very happy that I made that choice at the end of the day. But that person, it was so funny because that person was upset about my wig, and it was the day of a put-in or something. I wasn't in full costume, and I had my afro out, and I had on the Anna coronation gown. And I thought it was really cool that I had on the Anna coronation gown with a fruit. And I was just walking around like, uh so I told somebody to snap a picture of it, and I posted it, and people were so upset. And it was so funny because my community of color was like, oh, wait, you have a fro in, and I was like, I wish we didn't go that far.

But um, but like, you know, everyone'll do something, but then you know, and I was just like, it's really cool that everyone was responding so positively, they were so excited to see Anna with a fro. And then you get this crazy, like what your hair is, and then talking calling my hair frizz instead of calling it afro. And I was like, are you referring to my hair? Wow. Okay, let's um let's chat. So, you know, I don't know. I just think it's important to have discussions, and I also I share it because I know that there are my friends. I have friends that will go and talk to that person in words that I will never say. You know, and so it's like you get it from both sides, but it's just I don't know.

I it's a it's an issue, and instead of ignoring it, I I don't you know, I choose to have a conversation. And then if you continue to be stupid and like you don't want to have a conversation, yeah, then I'm not gonna push. But um, I'm also not gonna allow you just to down talk me and not say anything, right? Yeah, because that's not fair. No, totally, totally. And we talked about on on here when the it was just last was it last night? The the Little Mermaid Um Oh yeah. Little Mermaid live. Like people people got all mad about that. And we talked about it on uh when that came out. And my brother listened. When we were first talking about it. We were talking about the Little Mermaid live action.

Right, that's what I meant. The live action because there's a the live action happened the other day, but there's a movie that Halle Bailey is. I'm sorry, we were talking about the movie. The live action movie. And last night was like the I don't know where the live theater thing. Which I read this morning, like apparently did really well. The ratings were great. Was double the rent ratings, which is crazy. So I still haven't seen it. I totally missed it. I just saw uh Queen Latifa in a in a in a Ursula. Yeah. It was like, wait, where was I the whole time this was happening? I just heard Amber Riley like si wailing. And I was like, oh yes. Give me more of that. She can she we're talking about when the Little Mermaid thing came out was uh we were we were talking about it.

My brother-in-law just listened to that episode, and he was like, I burst out laughing because there was this one moment we're going back and forth about it, and I just I was like, she's a fish. Why is everybody? It is a character, it is a fictional thing. And and this the thing that that a lot of people don't get to see that we you get to walk through the the autograph line and you see these little girls who who light up because they see someone that looks like them, and that is not normal. No, it's not. And it's it's even to the the point that like that I got upset that these little chocolate drops were not upset, but I was just like they come and when they see me, they see themselves, and then then they have to go buy a doll that doesn't look like them.

And so I had a fan who made me a doll that looked like me, and I was like, Oh my god, this is so cool. Wait, can you make more of these? And so she made them, and I just like gave them out at this age drawer whenever I would see little. And not to say that that I mean, you can have a doll that is white, black, Asian, but there's a hundred million dolls of little white dolls. Like there's a hundred there's a there's millions of those. Yeah, and just like growing up, my mother made it a point that my sister and I saw our skin represented in our toys, in our books, in our so that we look around and we see ourselves.

[44:11] Aisha Jackson: And so for me, I just took that lesson and was just like, okay, it will be beautiful for these young little babies to walk away, especially if they see me up there to walk away with a doll that looks like them, and then they have a piece that's like, oh, okay, I can do this too.

[44:27] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[44:27] Aisha Jackson: No, and I find that with the show in general, that like the era of women, young girls who grew up in the Frozen era, you know, that it where it is about sisterhood and it's about empowerment and it's about, you know, full-fledged consent at the end when Kristoff kneels down and says, "Hey, can I kiss you?" That's my favorite moment in the whole thing because we what they're showing this moment of like, listen, a man needs full consent to kiss you, and like all of the subliminal messaging that they don't even realize they're getting, yeah, and they're gonna come through the ranks, they're gonna grow up and they're with it with a lot of really good, you know, and in the way that like I feel Belle, you know, made it cool to read and stuff like these sorts of things.

But like they don't know, these young African American girls don't even know what they know when they see you. You know what I mean? Like they're coming through the line and they're like, "Oh, there's and she's the princess and she gave me this thing," and that is gonna just inform like when one of them becomes a freaking senator or something. I hope you get a letter, like you know, I think you get a letter in 20 years. You gave me a doll at the stage door at the St. James Theater.

[45:30] Joe Carroll: Right, right.

[45:30] Aisha Jackson: But that's where it's so important, you know. It's like the impact that that has on kids who don't even know they're being impacted by it in the same way that that you know, we were impacted by things as kids, like you should be able to have that same experience as a young person of color that's really important, right? And the thing that makes me upset is like people get in arms about having a person of color portray this princess, but then when you sit down and you look at all the other princesses, we have one other black princess, but you know, and so it's just like why is it fair for you guys to have 50 million of them and we just get one?

[46:06] Joe Carroll: Yeah, like that's not fair either.

[46:08] Aisha Jackson: Like they need to see themselves in different characters, you know, represented in different ways and yeah, in different stories, and yeah and I think the thing that has been really cool at Waitress to see is that there's such a strong push to have there's like so much diversity on the stage, yeah, but the show isn't about racial tension, yeah, or the struggles of kind of what has happened in this country, you know. So it's like it's like elevating the stories that are being told so that it's like you can tell any story you want to tell. It doesn't have to be a story about black people.

[46:44] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's like and that's so important for the next generation to see.

[46:48] Aisha Jackson: Definitely, definitely. It doesn't have to be, it just it just needs to be a story about a human being, right? And any human being can portray that, especially if it's not in a certain historic setting or like about a certain I mean, you know, Hamilton, it can be about you know, historical figures, but you know, of course we have certain stories that is like no, this part needs to be this race, this part needs to be this, whatever. But there's so many stories that we don't take liberty of just being more inclusive.

[47:15] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[47:15] Aisha Jackson: Right. We have to be so literal, yeah about and it's like, like, uh, there, you know, if you have one character, like the daughter has if if if the mother and the father are one race, then everyone has and it's like, why? Why can't we just like change? Who cares? I can't tell her story. I kind of blame the uh the film industry for because when you watch movies, they're so literal, right? And the theater has been taking liberties with this stuff for a long time. And I feel like and theater can't be mass produced, so uh only a certain amount of people get to see it. But like there's this idea on TV and film that if there's a white mom and a white dad and they have a they have an African American kid, it's it's oh, what are the what what are they saying? It's got the we have to explain that she was adopted or whatever. No, it's like, no, actually, just just we're all actors, it's actors acting in an acting thing. This is all fake. This is all fake. This is all fake.

[48:13] Aisha Jackson: We don't need to get into the you know, the biology of of you know kid I don't know. Let's do it. Because the kid can be white and the kid could be adopted. Like it could be any, you know, it's I had a student um send me a letter um saying that some one of her teachers told her that she didn't fit her vision for the role or something like that, and it was like a show, and she was be it was the same thing, like she had a child, or she was the child and she was a different color than the parent, and they wanted to add a line in there to make sure people knew like she was adopted or she was this or she was that, and she's like, it made her feel so small and like not seen and not heard, and just and then she came to see the show and she was just like, I felt seen and I felt heard, and I appreciate that.

And like, but just her writing to me about that, and she's like, and that gave me, you know, inspiration to like keep pushing, and then she was like, you know, at the end of the year, I wrote a sh a play like with my uh other classmates, and it was just it didn't matter, race and things like that, you know.

[49:22] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, we were just we didn't have to explain it, and it wasn't I I fit into the vision that we created for myself and things like that. And I think her teacher came around in the end, but it's just like how can you tell this young woman? Oh, I'm sorry, you don't fit into the vision of something that's like she can't actually play that, and it does, it's fine, yeah, but you you're making it about so much about her race that you're like forgetting that she's a human being and that she has the capability to play the part.

[49:34] Joe Carroll: To play the part, and maybe the best person for the role, yeah.

[49:53] Aisha Jackson: Just like yeah, but you're just like Xing her out just because all the double duty and all the things. I mean, you're developing musicals and stuff all the time, and you just did a very fancy one with my wife.

[50:07] Joe Carroll: Yes, and that might be coming up, maybe it the reservations are online, but we still don't have a piece of paper.

[50:18] Aisha Jackson: You the this it's a really good metaphor because there's you know, that's happening all the time. I have some other friends who have been who have been doing a workshop of something that like just they actually they all have the offer. I'm not gonna talk about what the show is, but there's a lot of Waitress people involved, and they all have an offer to do a lab that's not happening.

[50:38] Joe Carroll: Oh my god, has been canceled and they haven't been told.

[50:40] Aisha Jackson: I know you can't, but oh yeah, I heard you did really well for that.

[50:43] Joe Carroll: Yes, yeah, and and they called me the way the thank you, God. They called me and they told me that it wasn't me. And I was like, I felt really bummed about it because I was in the middle of this other thing, and I was going hard for these auditions, yeah, and making time and like was like, oh my god, I feel so it felt close. It felt like it was right there. Like they were about to hand it over to me. That's what it felt like. And I was like, oh my god, this is so cool. But you know, whenever we feel that we don't give in to it completely because we're like, until we see a piece of paper where we get that call, it's not a thing. And so I got the call saying it wasn't a thing. But then the next day I got the call from Frozen telling me that I'll be on on the same dates that that lab would have been taking place.

[50:51] Aisha Jackson: Oh, okay.

[50:51] Joe Carroll: And I was like, uh, okay. Thanks, God.

[51:30] Aisha Jackson: Right. And you know, what is for you is for you, what isn't it?

[51:33] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[51:33] Aisha Jackson: And we talk, you know, Joe and I uh privately talk a lot about like kind of like the way that alignment works.

[51:39] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[51:40] Aisha Jackson: It's interesting that to bring it back to you specifically, like you were more in line with Anna, and that's why that like came to be for you. You know, it was just like you couldn't change yourself and who you are inside.

[51:52] Joe Carroll: No, you just happen to be of the essence of another character, you know, and this thing.

[51:59] Aisha Jackson: Actually, do this one, you know, is a blessing in itself, right? Totally that's casting at its finest. That's when like you know, they they do see like, hey, would you I went in, I've I've auditioned for Waitress so many times, and the last time that I went in, uh uh Barry Weissler was like, was like, would you read for is it Ogie? Uh Logie. He's like, Well, you know, and I was like, and I was like, Really? He had a work session for Earl originally, like before Cambridge. You've gone in for Earl since then. At least, every mechanic, but but then I was like, I went back in for the doctor again, which I love working on that material. It's really it's a great thing packet to sing. But then, but then he Barry was like, Would you look at Ogie? And I was like, Oh, really? Really? Okay. Yeah. All right.

[52:47] Joe Carroll: You'd be great though.

[52:48] Aisha Jackson: It was really silly and fun. And then it was like, and it was great because then Pat Pat was like, That was that was hilarious. Like, thank you for doing a cold read of this, basically. Why not? You know, yeah. But that's and they also may have just wanted to see like that side of you for the doctor, too.

[53:03] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[53:04] Aisha Jackson: You know, yeah, who knows? But we're we've taken your whole morning. And so I want I just want to end this is my last little bit.

[53:09] Joe Carroll: Oh, you got okay, you go first.

[53:10] Aisha Jackson: You go first.

[53:11] Joe Carroll: And then I'll Joe has his favorite question.

[53:13] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, you did ask me. Um so I want to know, like, clearly you have some kind of magic.

[53:19] Joe Carroll: Me?

[53:19] Aisha Jackson: Yes. Cause I mean, every time you walk into a room, it seems like everyone's uh just falls in love with you, which is totally like such a gift and is so amazing. And I'm sure it's probably hard to kind of talk about what that might be. So I'll just ask, you know, what would you tell 14-year-old version of Aisha? Aisha, what would you say to 14-year-old Aisha? And it doesn't have to be about auditioning or anything like that. It's just like, what would you what would you want to tell your younger self about what you've learned in this business?

[53:49] Aisha Jackson: Wow. Uh definitely your gift will make room for you. Uh so trust it, you know, it'll it'll open the doors for you, and it'll get you to where you're supposed to be. And just a reminder that like you're right where you're supposed to be. Like, even if it feels like, oh, I want to be there, or I need to do this, or I need to do more. I need to, you're right where you're supposed to be. So take in that space, look around you, see what you can be grateful for, like switch your perspective to not. I think we get so stuck on the future, like what we want to do and what's next, that we miss so many gifts that are right here in front of us right now that are happening at this current moment because we choose to like look at what's not happening and look at what's going wrong and look at like, oh, I need to be better at this and better at that.

And it's just like, no, switch your perspective. What is going right? You know, what is a blessing? What are you what do you have to be grateful for? Focus on those things and allow that to fuel you to get better, to you know, work harder, but like, yeah, be present, be present.

[54:57] Joe Carroll: Yeah, we get so caught up in uh I need to hear that now.

[55:00] Aisha Jackson: Two way you should need to hear it. I'm like, that's great.

[55:04] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah. And that's why I asked that question that way, because it, you know, it's totally gonna be applicable to everyone in every situation. But we do get so caught up in our business with like what we don't have, or because there's this inevitable like pending doom of the fact that like we feel like this may never happen again. You'll never get there. What's it like and like instead of worrying about that this may never happen again, like enjoy this thing that might be the last time. At the current moment, this is the last thing you don't want to spend the whole time worrying about when the show's gonna close or like what you're gonna do next. Because then you move on to the next thing and you look back and you're like, what do you have positive to remember from that experience?

[55:44] Aisha Jackson: Right. If you if the whole time you were using it to like be negative and like think about what you don't have, and also I think it's very important for us to not compare ourselves to other people and their journey. Everyone's journey is so different, and people are always like, How did you get to Broadway? How did you get this? When did you do this? When and I'm like, it there is no one, two, three, A, B, C, do this, do that, and you are guaranteed. Right. There are people who have been here in the city for 10 plus years and have never made their Broadway debut, right? Or haven't done this or haven't done that. Like, it's it's such a different process for each and every individual that it like inconveniences us to compare ourselves to the to our neighbor in their journey and what they're doing.

[56:28] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[56:29] Aisha Jackson: Aisha, little 14-year-old baby.

[56:33] Joe Carroll: And Joey, you should ask your favorite question.

[56:35] Joe Carroll: Well, now that the heat just turned back on. So we gotta we gotta wrap this up. It's the it's heat season again. It's on.

[56:41] Aisha Jackson: Um it actually doesn't sound too bad.

[56:42] Joe Carroll: Oh, great. So we'll just do this. Uh my favorite quote, like just to end is what's your impossible dream? What is the thing that's like next on the horizon that you're looking to that you're like, I want, I want this thing. I'm I'm I'm striving towards this thing in the distance that like yeah, yeah.

[57:00] Aisha Jackson: Okay. My thing, my thing that I'm striving towards, I want someone to write a show for me. That's my thing.

[57:06] Joe Carroll: That's I don't know that.

[57:10] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, I do. Or you have to manifest the point of that question is always just to like put it out in Broadway. What do you want to do? You know what I mean? Yeah, because so clearly we set out on this goal when we're 10. I want to be on Broadway. Right. So then you hit that, and it's like, okay, well, but what what do you keep? What's the next where do you want to go? Originating a principal role in something that's yeah, and and when people are like, what's your dream role? I'm always like, I want someone to create a show or a role for me, yeah, you know, or with me in mind, or maybe I'll create it, you know?

[57:38] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah.

[57:39] Aisha Jackson: That's it.

[57:40] Joe Carroll: I love that.

[57:41] Aisha Jackson: And that's also like the ultimate responsibility, and so yeah, I want to see it.

[57:45] Joe Carroll: Me too.

[57:45] Aisha Jackson: It's gonna happen.

[57:46] Joe Carroll: Yeah, it's girl.

[57:48] Aisha Jackson: Yeah, that's a great Well done.

[57:54] Joe Carroll: Thank you, Aisha.

[57:56] Aisha Jackson: Thank you so much for being here. This was so so awesome.

[57:59] Joe Carroll: Thank you for having me. Um, congrats on all your success. And I mean, you you just really kill it, and I hope that we can get a sliver of your uh magic and and share that with somebody else who needs it.

[58:15] Aisha Jackson: Yes, that's it's about that's what it's about. Sharing There are a lot of people.