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[0:21] Dan Tracy: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals, Courtney.

[0:23] Dan Tracy: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals, Courtney Reed.

[0:26] Courtney Reed: Thank you for coming.

[0:27] Courtney Reed: My gosh, thank you for having me, yay!

[0:30] Dan Tracy: Thunderous applause, thunderous applause.

[0:31] Joe Carroll: Thunderous applause.

[0:34] Dan Tracy: So we're just gonna, we're gonna embarrass you slightly, and just rattle off a bunch of the cool things that you've done, and you can just kind of roll your eyes like that, you know, in the background. Courtney Reed is with us today. She made her Broadway debut in Mamma Mia. She's also seen on Broadway in In the Heights, obviously Aladdin, which we're gonna talk a lot about. Most recently, I really want to talk about a Cambodian rock band. This is a very cool, very cool project that, I saw you on the street outside of the Al Hirschfeld, like, as you were starting it, or as it was, you were in rehearsal or something, and it was one of these wonderful, like, 44th Street run-ins. A bunch of TV stuff. We were actually talking right before you came on, that, like, I texted you the last week or the week before, because I saw you on Search Party on HBO.

[1:22] Courtney Reed: Oh my gosh.

[1:23] Courtney Reed: Just a moment on Search Party.

[1:26] Dan Tracy: The Affair, Law & Order, White Collar, CSI, and, like, a bunch of other cool stuff. You're an entrepreneur. Courtney's the founder of an all-female run company called Gag Chokers, and is a member of the Broadway Princess Party. So we're just, we're thrilled that you're here today. Thank you for talking with us, and, yeah, we're just gonna have a little fun.

[1:45] Courtney Reed: Oh my gosh, I'm hashtag honored. I love that intro, oh my gosh.

[1:56] Courtney Reed: Fierce. Just like my manager over here.

[1:59] Joe Carroll: Just a small intro.

[2:03] Dan Tracy: So I'm so, I'm thrilled that you're here, because one of the things that I, I remember meeting you, do you remember when we met? Do you remember the first time that we met? Like, the OG time that we met?

[2:13] Courtney Reed: Yeah.

[2:14] Joe Carroll: Put her on the spot, Joe, Jesus Christ.

[2:16] Courtney Reed: No, I'm not.

[2:17] Joe Carroll: I'm the worst at memories.

[2:18] Joe Carroll: I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to put, not trying to blow up your, your spot.

[2:21] Courtney Reed: It's, it's, I just, it was, it was, it was in 2012 or early 2013. I had just signed with Stone Manor Sounders, which is now called Artisan Representatives, and it was a, it was a holiday party, and I didn't know a soul. I was, I was new to the city, I was new to the agency, and I was standing over in the corner at this holiday party by myself, and you came up to me like, like, like two kids on the playground, and you were like, hey, what's your name? I'm Courtney. What's your, like, what's your deal? We stood there and talked. You were, I think Brock was there too, and we just talked for like, like 45 minutes. I had no one at this party, and, and this is just like, it was one of these things that, uh, it's like who you are.

You're incre, you're so easy to talk to, so engaging, so sweet, and I just, I was like, I remember it very vividly, and actually every time I see you, I remember like, I was like, oh yeah, that was when we met, we met, and now you're a super Broadway star, and we're friends and colleagues and everything else, but.

[3:19] Courtney Reed: Oh my god.

[3:20] Courtney Reed: You kind of remember that now?

[3:21] Courtney Reed: I do remember, yeah, at the tip, or, um, no, um, it's so, was Soho House?

[3:26] Dan Tracy: It was a Soho House, yeah, which, which sounds very.

[3:29] Courtney Reed: That was like the first and last, no, I think we only had like two holiday parties, and then they were like, uh, let's just like, we can't afford this anymore.

[3:38] Courtney Reed: But I remember when you first signed with Stone Manors, well, now Artists and Rep, they, Ben Sands was like, OMG, look at who he just signed, and then like showed like your headshot or something like that, and I was like, fear! And then, and then, you know, because like, and honestly, we were both in like really long relationships, it wasn't about that, it was just that like, I was like, oh my god, here's the new guy, and it's like, I, I always feel like when you're the new person too, it's like, you want to feel like you have a friend.

[4:07] Courtney Reed: Yeah. You don't want to be like sitting at the table by yourself, or like, you know, like, you know, it's like the sitting in the mean girls moment where you're like sitting in the bathroom by yourself because you don't have any friends at the table. Like, I was like, I hope he has friends now.

[4:17] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[4:18] Courtney Reed: Like, he hasn't friended me.

[4:19] Joe Carroll: No.

[4:19] Courtney Reed: Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed.

[4:21] Joe Carroll: Yeah, literally, I'll friended you. That was actually, that was, we have our first Aladdin reference of the day. Don't, don't roll your eyes at me, Daniel. He thinks he's so clever with his puns.

[4:30] Dan Tracy: Dear god.

[4:31] Joe Carroll: Do we have a question for Courtney?

[4:33] Dan Tracy: That's rich.

[4:34] Joe Carroll: That's all rich.

[4:35] Dan Tracy: All right, fine. We can start asking Courtney questions, and then we can, we'll just, we can get into the whole thing. I, I want to talk about, I mean, it's sort of jumping to the big stuff first, but I want to talk about the development of Aladdin. Is that all right to just jump into that? Because that is like, it was like, you know, being a part of the kind of Disney family I heard, and, you know, that process seemed really wild, honestly. Like, I mean, from, from, from Seattle to, I mean, there were, it was all over the place, and there was a lot of pressure on it. And I just, I wonder what you remember most about the development of that.

[5:11] Courtney Reed: Yeah, it was, it was so high stress. I remember, I just look back and I think like, I wish that I just felt a little bit more relaxed and I could have enjoyed those moments that were so high stress. I think it's just because it was this, you know, we had developed it in readings, and, and they had just wanted to license it for, for high schools. They had never had a full version. They only like the 90 minute version. They were like, okay, let's bring in a team and we'll, you know, have this full version and we'll sell it to the high schools. And then they were like, wait, the show's amazing. Let's fast track it. You know, when you're at Disney, you can just do whatever you want. Right. So they were like, they bumped out Oklahoma in season of, you know, the 2011 season at 5th Avenue.

And it, she was a bit of a, she was a bit of a mess at the moment because it was like, like, they had these three characters that they added in and Howard Ashman had originally written them. And then they sort of like, when he passed away, those ideas died with him. And Alan Menken was like, if we're doing Aladdin, we are going to bring back a lot of these Howard Ashman's original concepts. And those original concepts were just not what was in the film. So people were confused. There were these three best friends. They narrated the show. The Genie didn't start and open. And it was just kind of weird. I had this song called Call Me A Princess that they really tried making work and they just didn't make it work.

And, and they put me in these like terrible costumes to try and make this song work. And then I felt like it was my fault. I was like, I'm trying like, and you know, and they just, they reamed us. Like the reviews were so bad. And then we tried working on things. We took it to another out of town. The reviews were medium. They gave me a new song. I finally had an I Want song. It was just like all of this. It was like train wreck after train wreck. Then we get to Broadway and they're like, we're making all of these changes. The Genie opened the show. And all of a sudden it was like, it's a little show that, you know, it's not a little show. It was this big show that they were like, okay, this is going to be a hot mess.

And then it was amazing. And people were like, wait, I really love this show. It's so fun and amazing. We thought it was going to be terrible. So I think it really worked out for us because like for Frozen, for example, like I know, I mean, obviously you were in Frozen, but like, I think with something that was so hyped and current that they're like, oh my gosh, this is going to be the most, and they're going to have all of these crazy things happening. And then if the audience is sitting out, they're going like, uh, well, why isn't there like icicles, like dropping from the, you know, it's like you have such a, it's like Aladdin is this old film that they were like kind of bringing back. I don't even know how Frozen got in there, but like, yeah. Did I even answer the question?

[7:44] Dan Tracy: No, you did. You did. And like the hype of it too, I can imagine must have been, that's one of those Disney things that I think is really hard. Like when a new show comes to New York, you've never heard of blah, blah, blah. You know, whether it's a jukebox, something, you know, girl from the North country or whatever. You're like, we don't know anything about this. And there's no, there's no expectation. But then when Frozen, you know, when Frozen or Aladdin or X was, you know, these things it's like, if this isn't the most successful thing that Broadway's ever seen, it's a failure by the, by the, by the standards of the Disney corporation in a way.

[8:21] Courtney Reed: Yeah. It's Disney. So they're just expecting literally everything. I know like they were like, well, for sure the carpet's going to fly into the audience. Right. You know, there's things like that. And be like, well, it didn't fly into the audience. So, and I wish that they had like a real tiger on the stage and it's like, okay, everyone calmed down. You know what I mean? Everyone calmed down. And I think with Frozen, it was like this phenomenon, this movie that was like this crazy phenomenon that had never starred like two princesses. And it was just this huge hype around it. And at least with Aladdin, it was like this, the hype was like huge, but then they were like, but I think it's really bad. And so then when we were not bad, they were like, actually it's good. So I don't know. I don't know. That was crazy.

[9:07] Dan Tracy: And it feels like it is sort of like the gift that keeps on giving or taking away. I mean, depending on how you look at it, but you've been in and out of it a lot. I mean, the tour and this and that, I mean, it feels like, do they just keep calling at the right time? Like in your life when you're just kind of like, hey, actually I do want to go do it again, do it again.

[9:29] Courtney Reed: Yes. They always call it the correct moment. I mean, I stayed with it for so long because I always felt like, okay, if I'm going to make it on Broadway, I don't want to be like that, like jaded actor that's just kind of like, you know, it's like you run into your friends and they're like, how's the show? And you're like, it is what it is. I just never wanted to do that. It's a paycheck.

[9:47] Courtney Reed: Yeah. Yeah. That's the worst. I just wanted to be like, I've worked my whole life to get to this place. I want to enjoy every single moment. And it just felt like that. And like, I would go back to my agents or our agents and I'd be like, I don't know. They're like, okay, well, they're asking you back another year. I'm like, I honestly don't feel sick of it. I feel like when I get to that place where I feel sick of it, I'll be ready. And there's nothing else that I really want to leave for. I feel comfortable here. I really love this family. And so I just kept staying. It was like, I blinked. And then like four years later, I was like, oh my God, I could have, like, it was like, I went to college at Aladdin.

And then I was like, okay, I'm retiring. I'm leaving, going to LA. And I had five weeks on the tour and I loved it. And then a year and a half later, they're like, um, can you go to London? I'm like, oh my gosh, yes, this sounds so fierce. And then it was like, I came back. And then, you know, that was only supposed to be six to eight weeks. And then it ended up being four months. And then I came back and they were like, well, Ariel's going on vacation for two weeks. You want to come back? I think they just want to have like fun energy in the building or something. Like, you know, it's just not that deep for me anymore because I just know it so well front to back. And so I have so much fun when I'm there.

And I don't know. I think maybe they just, they're always asking me to come back. I'm like, are you sure? I mean, she's out of it because I aged out of it when I was first started. And I don't know what you're talking about, but they always asking me to come back. It's the gift that really it's the gift that keeps on giving, really.

[11:11] Dan Tracy: That's so cool. I'm going to be 90.

[11:13] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah, a lot of Botox.

[11:15] Courtney Reed: Yeah, it's it's it really it feels like the Broadway equivalent of a superhero movie. It's like if you can get yourself into one of these princess roles and ride the Disney wave, you can just ride that Disney fame, put your kids through college with that money. And like, you know, as long as you're having fun doing it, it's such a big opportunity to work in one show for that long and to actually love it. Like, what a dream, you know? What a dream.

[11:41] Courtney Reed: I know. It's so weird because it's like rural industry folks. So we understand that there's like that sort of stigma to like staying with the show. They're like, oh, she can't book anything else. And I just it's so weird because like the general public would be like, oh my God, well, why would you ever leave? Right. You know, it's like as an actor, don't you want stability? This is confusing to me. And you're like, yeah, but like only for like a year until I find something better, you know? And it's like, I really did. I felt like I waited for the things that were that I felt were better. And like Cambodian rock band, like I had an opportunity to go back. They were like, come back to Aladdin. I was like, I have this amazing opportunity. It pays like zero dollars, but it's so fulfilling. You know what I mean? It's like, it's so weird. That is one that like, I would love to talk about because that was, did that take me through that process?

[12:30] Courtney Reed: Because I feel like, were you guys, did you just finish when the pandemic hit? Were you still in performance at the time? I forget the timeline a little bit.

[12:39] Dan Tracy: Yeah, no. So we were in, we had about two weeks left. We had gotten a notice saying this show would possibly extend until April, whatever. And we were like, okay, well for sure it's going to extend because it just keeps getting extended. We opened, we started previews and there were like lines out the door. New York Times said there was going to be a front runner for the Pulitzer. Not a big deal. Not a big deal. It was just like everyone who, everyone was seeing the show. And I thought like, this is kind of fierce. Like, I didn't know like people saw Off-Broadway. Like this is amazing. And so I was like, this is, I just like really connected to the role so much. And I was like, and it was a bucket list thing to do a play.

Yeah. And, and it was so different from Aladdin and I had never played anything close to my heritage ever. And so it was meant so much to me, but I didn't know that people like everyone was coming to see it. So that was so awesome. And people were getting turned away and there were standby and wait lists. And then all of a sudden COVID hit and it was like, you know, the, the China virus. And they're like, all of a sudden, nobody wants to come see this Asian show. I was like, uh, how did this just change like drastically? And then there were all these empty seats. And obviously I'm sure it was the same for every, for every show, but then they were like, Hey, we're not extending. And then it was like, that was it.

You know? I mean, you were, were you guys doing shows at the time? I was, I had left, I had left, I had left, uh, end of February and Dan, you, you weren't in something at the time, were you? It's literally been so long now. I'm like, like, what year is it? I was doing a show at the signature in DC and that was done February 28th, which, so it was two weeks before the official lockdown, but we didn't, I mean, none of us knew at the time that like every place was a hotspot and we didn't know. That's what's crazy is that nobody actually got sick in those shows that we were doing at that time, which, you know, quickly closed afterwards.

[14:45] Courtney Reed: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. Um, and they, there was some talk that they're going to try to tour it or that, that they're going to try to send it out, you know, once everything is, is that still possible that they're going to send it out when everything settles down?

[14:55] Dan Tracy: Yeah. It's supposed to do like San Francisco, uh, the Mark Taper in LA and, um, Berkeley rep or something like that. It's got, it already has, it's so crazy because in 2019 it was the most produced play of the year. It had already played La Jolla. It was weird. It had already done sort of like another tour before it came to New York. It's like normal shows do New York and then they go out. Right. Um, but this show, I think it was so unique and it's a really small cast. The cast plays their own instruments and then also sing, you know, it's like the, I was the lead singer and so I sang and then the cast is, it, it's so tiny. I just feel like it's an easy, it's an easy sort of insert into anybody's season.

And so, and then after the success of New York, I think all of these other venues were like, Oh my gosh, we really want to, we really want to bring Cambodian rock band here. Um, of course I was like, ideally you would go to Broadway, but, um, you know, but I have no idea what the plans are for that. Right. But who knows if Broadway's ever coming back at this point. So, right. It is, it is, I have faith.

[16:07] Dan Tracy: Um, so now that we've covered, you know, some of the things you've worked on recently, and we're going to probably deep dive a little bit more on some things. Um, let's start, let's go back to the very beginning, a very good place to start and let us, let's know. I want to know when you knew that you had to be an actor. Did you grow up performing? Were you always going to be a star or was that thrust upon you?

[16:28] Courtney Reed: No, I just felt like I felt, so I, I was just, I did community theater, you know, like everyone else. And, and I got this opportunity to play Annie and Annie, I was like, go children's theater Belgium for being like totally colorblind casting. Um, but I, in that moment, I was like, I think this is what I need to do for the rest of my life. And I also felt like I had zero other skillsets. So I was like, I guess if I fail, I'm going to be like totally homeless on the streets because I don't know how to literally do anything else.

[17:01] Dan Tracy: So you had this thought is Annie. You had this thought when you were playing, how old were you?

[17:09] Courtney Reed: I was like 11.

[17:10] Dan Tracy: You're 11 years old. Like, like I have no skills. I have zero skills. I was like, literally, I was like, I kind of suck at school. I mean, like I get fine grades, but like, I hate every subject. Like I hated it all. I was like, I only want to do theater. And I went to performing arts high school and, and I just felt like it was my calling, but I don't know, I guess at the time too, I was like, I'm going to succeed. I think like I have to, but I was always kind of like, sort of realistic. I was like, well, I'll never make it on Broadway. So like, I'll have to like, maybe be in movies first. So maybe I'll just move to LA because only famous people are on Broadway. I'm going to have to compete against all these other people who are like, probably way more talented than me.

So I was like, I'll become famous in a TV show. And then I'll just pick and choose what shows I want to be in. And this was like thoughts that I had. And so I just was never, I don't know. I just was like, I think it's just going to work out. Like, yeah. And it's not even that I had this confidence going in. Like, it's not like I walked in being like, oh my God, I'm better than everyone. It's just that I was like, I think it just has to work out in the universe for me because I don't know how to do anything else. But like now, like later on in life, I'm like, now what do I do? It's so weird how you start doubting yourself later on in your career after you've done things that you really like. And I'm like, okay, what else is going to fulfill me? I don't know.

[18:28] Joe Carroll: We talk about that a lot. My whole college experience felt like, I thought I was hot shit. And then I got to college at your dream school. And then you're like, oh, wow. From then on, it's just been like, okay, there's a lot more to learn.

[18:38] Courtney Reed: But it's super smart that you had this understanding that this L.A. idea is a thing that never dawned on me in my life. And Joe and I talk about this all the time that, you know, what if we'd just gone maybe in a slightly different direction and pursued that first, because it does seem easier to get kind of more recognition on Broadway. Why were you so smart to that happening? Did you see that happen to someone else?

[19:07] Courtney Reed: No, I always felt like... So when I went to college, I was like, okay, I'm super late in the game. I should be famous already. I don't know. I'm like, as in Kirsten Dunst has already been in a million movies and we're the same age. I'm like, I don't know. I need to just get on it. So I was like, okay, I better get an agent. So I got an agent and I better start auditioning. And all of my teachers were like, uh, you're not allowed to audition for things. I was like, I'm an actor. I just booked a job. I'm confused. What more am I going to learn? I honestly felt like I, I mean, I learned a lot in college, but I felt like I was like kind of same, same, like, you know what I mean? I went into college and went out sort of like at the same sort of skill set.

But what I gained so much from living in Chicago was auditioning. And I auditioned for commercials, industrials, um, anything on camera, like short films, things like that. Anything that my agent was willing to send me out on in between classes. And I really did make most of my classes. So I was like, I, they were willing to work around my schedule and I learned so much. So by the time I got to New York and I actually had booked my first Broadway show when I was living in Chicago. So I moved to New York with a show. So I was like, wait, this is amazing. And, and so I learned my audition skills, just actually auditioning.

[20:26] Dan Tracy: Yeah. Um, what's your, what's your favorite audition story?

[20:31] Courtney Reed: Oh my gosh. Favorite audition story. I feel like I don't have that many great ones. They're pretty like standard. Um, how'd you get Aladdin? How did I get a lot? Oh, that was so easy. That was probably one of my easiest auditions ever. That's amazing. Yeah. I mean, no, but like my mama Mia audition was so easy too, I'm just like, I don't know. This, they were so easy, but Aladdin, I was auditioning for a, uh, a reading and it was like five girls. I remember it was like me, Tia Alton, who ended up being the understudy on Broadway, uh, Courtney Wolfson. They, I saw like those two girls at the audition, like Courtney Wolfson was coming in, I was leaving and then Tia Alton was going after me. And then they just called in five girls.

Cause they were like, we're just doing an intimate sort of Disney thing. And I had been in mama Mia. So Tara Rubin knew me and was like, oh yeah, she could probably play it. And then they just never got rid of me. So I was just constantly like auditioning, you know, just like on point, but they never got rid of me. I couldn't believe it. It was like, this is the easiest audition ever. And then I re auditioned for Casey Nichola when he joined on. Um, but what's crazy about that story is that Casey Nichola was then dating this guy, Josh, well, they're married, um, Josh Marquette, who was my hair supervisor on mama Mia. And so he said, I didn't know I had already done the reading. And he says to Casey Nichola, wait, you're about to do Aladdin.

You know, who'd be amazing is girl Courtney Reed. And, and, um, he's like, I do her hair at mama Mia. She'd be so perfect. And, um, I come to find this out later, obviously. Right. And so he's like, wait a second. I think I know that name. She did the reading. So I got the audio recording of her doing the reading. Yeah. She's great. So when I came to audition for it, I think he had already had like good vibes from his husband. So I was like, fierce. I didn't know that. I mean, I'm glad I didn't cause I think would have put extra pressure on me, but, and then, I don't know, they just never cast Nicole Scherzinger and I was great.

[22:32] Joe Carroll: Oh my God. Okay. So wait, I want to go back. How many readings did you do?

[22:37] Courtney Reed: Oh my gosh. So many. Okay. So the first reading in 2010, and I was doing in the heights at the time, uh, 2010, and then we did the out of town in 2011. And then we did another workshop for Bob Iger, who's the head of Disney, you know? And, um, and then we did maybe like one more workshop and then we took it out of town and then we did Broadway. And so Broadway was brought in and you guys opened on Broadway. What year?

[23:06] Courtney Reed: 2014. Okay. So, so you just said that, that it was the world easiest audition. That's four years, multiple out of town tryouts, multiple different like directors, it sounds like. And like, so for anybody listening that, that is not in any way, shape or form easy. It just, it just so happened you didn't have to go through five rounds of auditions for one job. You just had to audition for four years straight to then be in a Broadway show. So like, let's just call it, like, you know, we're all sort of masochistic and actually you're so right. That's awesome. It's so true. I'm like, why am I forgetting that? I'm talking to like little actors that like really know, like, yeah, you're right. You're just like, so have to be so on point.

Like always you're, you're right. But I just, I'm listening to that story. Like actually, you know, that's like to somebody who's not in the business, that's, that's four years of work, you know, for somebody who's in the business, we're like, oh, that's actually great. You didn't have to go in and like, you know, go to 14 callbacks. But like for some, you, it took you four years to get that, you know, like that's, that's a really, you put in an unbelievable amount of work. So.

[24:12] Courtney Reed: Oh my gosh. Thank you, Joe Carroll.

[24:15] Joe Carroll: Well, you're so welcome.

[24:17] Courtney Reed: Wait a second. I also do have a crazy audition story now that I'm thinking about it.

[24:20] Joe Carroll: Awesome.

[24:21] Courtney Reed: Okay. So my audition for In the Heights, I was doing Mamma Mia at the time and everyone was like, oh my God, you need to be in this Latina show. It's called In the Heights. And I'm like, okay, I need to be in it. I guess I went to go see it. I was obsessed. Obviously it was like, okay, I need to be in the show. So I auditioned for the show, like a bajillion times. Like I went to an open call. I went to dance calls, cut, which is like cut. And then just, they were like, no, no, thank you. Like not good. And so I then had a friend who was like, uh, I'm dating Stephanie Clemens. She can teach you the combination. Cause combo was so hard. And I was like, okay, well, obviously I'm only going to make it as a dancer.

[25:00] Courtney Reed: In the show, I was never thinking I'm going to play principal characters because I was like, I'll make it as a dancer. Maybe I'll get in the show. It's so amazing. And so they were like, hey, you need to be proficient in salsa. I was like, oh my gosh, I don't know how to do salsa. So one night before my audition, I went to a salsa club by myself and was like, I guess the best way to learn is just to dive in. So I just was standing there. People just start asking me to dance. And they were teaching me and I was like, amazing. Okay, so what is this step? And they were like, it's one, one, two, three, one, two, whatever. And I was like, oh, okay. And they were sort of twirling me around. I was like, okay, I think I kind of get it now.

And so I went to the audition and was cut. And I was like, oh no. And I just kept auditioning. And so finally when Stephanie Clemons had taught me the audition, she was Andy Blank and Bueller's assistant and also works on Hamilton and is kind of Andy, Andy Blank of Europe is like right hand woman, Stephanie. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, and in the heights at the time, it was like, it was like sort of before she had established this like right hand woman thing. And so I didn't realize that I was getting like the best, like the best, I mean, the best teacher you could have ever gotten to learn the dance. So I learned the dance and he, I see her like looking at Andy and being like, like, she's actually really good and like, whatever.

So I, I make it to like a little bit farther in that round. And then I go back again and I make it a little bit farther and I sing. So then I never hear anything about it. And it's the national tour. And I'm in final callbacks, finally in final callbacks, national tour. And everyone around me is booking it. And I'm like, like, gosh, like I just didn't book it. How is this possible? There was like not even that many girls in there. So I go to an audition for the national tour of Rent. Remember when they were doing like, they brought like all the folks back and they're doing this national tour? Going in for a Mimi Maureen cover. And I'm like doing the whole dance, doing all of these things, like dancing on a table.

Like it was crazy. So I come out and the casting director's like, hey, so basically they want to cast you in this role. And I know that you said you didn't want to leave your Broadway show for like an offstage cover, but you're their favorite for In the Heights. So, and I was like, okay, wait, news to me because everyone else is booking it. And they're not, they're like, yeah. So they're going to call you in for Carla to understudy Nina and Vanessa. And I'm like, wait, you're joking because I was auditioning to be like a dancer cover. I'm confused. So they were like, it's in a month prepare. So I was like, great. So I walk into the final call, the final, final callback as Carla, who I never even thought I was going to play a principal and like Lin-Manuel's in there.

And I'm like doing the whole thing. And I go through the thing and I stand with Alex Lacamoire and like at the piano and I do the audition. And I feel like, I'm like, I think I nailed it. And I was wearing this like really like short dress. I don't know why. And I walk, I walk out and I, and I look back and I see thumbs up from Lin. He's like, like this. And a couple of days later, after I found out I had booked it, Corey, who was the reader in the audition was like, um, girl, I knew you're going to book it like immediately because like you were the only one that read all the sides. And then everyone else that came in after you, they were just like, basically like, thank you. Like, and I basically told everyone, they were like, you need to cast her because she has amazing legs.

I love it. I love the Intel for this. Um, so yeah, that's my, I always forget about that story, but it was so crazy and unexpected. That's very cool. The twist and turns of like going in for this and then getting that, you know, those stories are really wild because all you can do is just keep putting work in and hope you get lucky and you've totally gotten lucky a couple of times. And then, you know, and then I also love the, the, the story about the hairdresser at Mama Mia. Like if you are an asshole, yeah, there's no, then, then he's going to tell Casey that you're an asshole and there's no way you're Jasmine. You know what I mean? Like, like those like putting that because one of the, yeah, that is like, you gotta be a good person.

He can't be an asshole and you have to be really talented and you have to work really hard. But like that is one of those stories that I love where it's like, you know, if, if somebody was a jerk, they weren't going to get that opportunity, which I like when the good people make it, you know what I mean? Thank you for saying that. No, because like, I'm sure you guys probably get these questions all the time and it's like, what is your number one piece of advice? I'm like, I don't know. Be a good person. I think you're going to get farther in life as a good person and then farther as an actor, just because people will want to work with you. I don't know. It's also just not that deep, right? It's like we're playing pretend on stage.

Like why is everyone, it's not, we're not doing brain surgery. Like we're, we're in, we're doing something to like make people happy. So I think we get, sometimes we get lost in it and we're just like, I know, but like everything sucks and like Broadway sucks and you're like, or, or does it, or does COVID suck? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Nothing sucks as much as COVID sucks. Yeah. Well, that's actually, that's like our, one of our last questions we always ask people. So you just like you, you answered that. So that's great. We don't, we don't have to ask that question. We got that one check. Um, yeah. We talk a lot about your successes and there've been a lot of successes, but I know that there have, there've got to be periods in there where, you know, you were waiting for readings to turn into Broadway and like, what was your greatest, what's your greatest challenge been as an actor, um, throughout all of this?

Yeah, I think, well, the waiting game with Aladdin was probably the worst. I had a couple like breakdowns just because, you know, there, it was so long, like you said, Joe, it was like so long, four years of like, not knowing whether I was going to actually be able to do it on Broadway and sort of knowing that I could at any point be replaced. And I remember calling my parents, just being like, it's just so much, like I have so much on the line here. And, and I just felt like this was going to be a game changer for me. And I wanted it so bad. I, I just looked up to Jasmine so much in my lifetime and Aladdin had such a huge impact on my life. And I, and so, um, I just was like, I mean, I had a toy room in like growing up that we painted and it was called the Aladdin room.

Like we painted it, the genie was in there. Like, I just loved, I just loved Jasmine. It was like, if they, if people ever asked me, if you could go back and like be in any other show, what show would you be? And I'm like, oh my God, I would choose Aladdin a thousand times over. Um, but it was that it was when they were having final callbacks for, for Aladdin and everyone was going in and people were like, Hey, can you give me advice on, on this? And, and I had to just accept that like, I might not get it. And that was really tough. And actually a friend of mine were like, so are we just going to jump off the New Amsterdam building if we don't get it? Like, should we just jump off the roof? Like, you know what I mean?

We just joke around because we had so much on the line and it was stressful to try and like keep my composure when I knew all these people were going in. And I, I genuinely feel like the, the best person should get the job. And so when people were like, Hey, can you give me advice on the show? I was like, yeah, absolutely. Um, but you know, it's so hard to like hold that in and be like, so people, people were, you were auditioning with other people who were asking you for advice on the role that you had just developed for the last four years. I I'm, I'm those, um, those people are out. Um, I'm not, I'm not that sure. That's one of my biggest pet peeves. Like that's a, don't respond from Joe Carroll.

He's definitely you're not responding to that. Not responding to that text. Sorry. Sorry. If you go, you know, yeah. Like if you get, if you get Hans, that's great. But like, I'm not going to coach. No, I'm just kidding. Um, you know, but yeah, that's so that's really hard. It's just a bit insensitive. It's insensitive. Yeah. Yeah. It is. And it's like, now if you go in for Jeff, I'm like happy to coach anyone, you know? And it's like, I have like dear friends who are going, who would go in for it. And I'm like, Oh my God, girl, you need to go in. Cause you'd be perfect. Okay. I'm going to tell you exactly what to do. But it's like, when you're on your butt is on the line because you really worked for four years to get this job and people are asking you advice.

I'm like, um, this is what you should do. You know, it's like, good luck. Like, I don't know. Um, but that was probably the biggest challenge for me. Um, yeah. Yeah. I'm glad it has a happy ending. You know, a lot of times like, you know, sometimes you can't see the happy ending at a challenge like that. That's, that's very cool. Um, is there, is there a, like a, uh, we're, we're big fans of self-help books and stuff on this podcast. Is there a book or a resource or something that you've found invaluable to get where you are or something, something that you lean on? Oh, I don't have any, like, no, no books or, um, audio books or podcasts or anything like that. I, I feel like with self-help stuff, I just, I have been so fortunate to be surrounded by like, really just like sort of like strong humans, like including my family and my sister, my mom, my dad, my brother, and like my closest, dearest friends.

I always feel like if you have a really amazing network around you of people that like are like ride or dies or people that actually care and you care in return that that helps so much because you have somebody to lean on, which is amazing. And then I, my voice teacher, Liz Kaplan, like I learned so much from her about how that's all connected, like how your voice is connected to the mind. It's connected to like what's happening with your body. And like, you know, it's like what time of month it is for a person. And it's like what time of month it is for a female, like all of these things matter. Um, but yeah, I just feel like I have a really good network of, of folks that like get me out of it.

And I think that I have, because I'm a little bit like realistic in certain ways, I'm like, okay, Courtney, you're like acting crazy right now. You know what I mean? Like you need to not like be doubting yourself in this moment, which is good, but sometimes it helps just to have like friends to be like, girl, you're fine. Just calm down, take a breath, go out for a run. And I really love, you know, like exercising and stuff that helps me a lot.

[35:00] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that's a, that's a big one too. I read, I read this book about, um, the guy was a professional chess player and then he became a professional martial artist. And he was part of that whole sports psychology movement where you train with a super high heart rate, you know, like Beyonce running on the treadmill and singing like that, that, yeah, the art of learning. Um, or people like running the beach and then singing like those kinds of things are super, super smart because of, you know, they train your voice or whatever, but it's also just good to exercise because of how it helps with your nerves. Like you need to be able to perform while your heart rate is high. Cause when you walk into a room and you're nervous as hell, like me, and you're like about to have an accident in your pants, you really need to be like ready, even though your heart rate's up and your legs are shaking.

So that that's a really good one, I think. Um, yeah, this is Joe's Joe's new favorite question. What is your, uh, most influential musical in your career? What is, you know, your favorite musical for the longest time or something that you grew up on that you like, couldn't stop listening to?

[36:00] Courtney Reed: Oh my gosh, I loved Miss Saigon. And that's what I really fell in love with Lea Salonga. I was like, oh my gosh, her voice is so perfection. Did you go into that? Revival? No, never. See, I never got cast in Asian roles. So I'm half Vietnamese and half French and English. My dad's French English, but he's from Iowa, like totally like white boy. And then my mom was born and raised in Thailand, but she's ethnically Vietnamese. Um, so apparently like half white, half Asian makes Latina. So like most of my career, I play Latina until you're like, you can't do that anymore. And so I was like, um, okay, so now what do I do? Because nobody knows that I'm Asian. And I think for the longest time too, people would be like, what's your ethnicity?

And I was kind of like, I don't know if I like reveal my ethnicity, I probably can't play Latina anymore. And I probably can't play whatever you think I look like. Um, and then obviously the industry changed. So then I was like, oh gosh. And the biggest, some of the biggest struggles for me are, um, especially in TV and film is that there are no roles for me. Like in the sense that they don't write roles for like half Vietnamese women. And so when I auditioned for the very first, anytime I, my whole career, the only audition for my actual ethnicity once where it said half Vietnamese girl that like half, half Vietnamese, I don't think it said half white necessarily, but it was like half Vietnamese. And she works at a nail salon. I was like, uh, of course she does. Um, but this series is regular, so I need to book this. And of course I didn't book it, but I was like, it's not.

[37:30] Courtney Reed: Only time I've ever auditioned for my own ethnicity, I was like, this is crazy. Unless it says open to all ethnicities, which is fine too. But what's even weirder is that half Asian is still low on the totem pole as far as ethnicity-wise. I'm sure this is probably very controversial, but statistically, a producer would rather cast somebody who's more ethnic than me, if that makes sense, because I'm a little bit more ethnically ambiguous, which helped me out in the beginning of my career a lot, because that's what they wanted. They were like, oh, we just don't want to know what her ethnicity is. That'll be really great. She can be Latina or Asian or whatever. And now they're like, no, you need to be Japanese.

You need to be Korean. You need to be specifically that ethnicity. So I was like, oh, my God. And that's why when I booked Cambodian Rock Band, I was like, oh, my gosh, for the first time, I get to actually play my own ethnicity. They would have never cast me in Miss Saigon, even though they're never cast Vietnamese girls in those roles. They're always Filipina girls. You know what I mean? And I'm so old now. They're like, well, you could be Gigi, maybe, you know, Gigi. But yeah, that's well, we'll go to the Courtney Reed Miss Saigon concert any time of day. Thank you. Definitely. I could do it like in concert. That would be cute. Yeah, we would definitely go watch you sing the greatest hits of Miss Saigon. So you should definitely add that to the list. Oh, my gosh, bless you both to be amazing. Well, we also didn't book it. Also didn't book it.

[39:15] Dan Tracy: Oh, yeah. We always go in. Never booked. Yeah, that was one. We both went in for it when it went to London. We both went in for it when it came to Broadway. And we both. I went in for the tour. I went far in the tour. Didn't get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, but that's just it's just the easiest business. It's just an easy business. You know, it's.

[39:35] Courtney Reed: Yeah, I want to ask about the Broadway Princess Party, because it sounds like this is something, you know, you are an entrepreneur, you know, with Gagged Chokers is what you've created. You've created businesses and content and all of this stuff. But that company in particular, you guys are like it feels like you're doing a lot even in the age of COVID. Can you talk about how that came about, what it is and what you guys are doing now?

[40:03] Courtney Reed: Yeah, for sure. So currently it's called Broadway Princess Party. It's going to change this. I don't know when this is coming out, but we're going to be morphing into something different, which is really, really exciting. Like it I've like kind of bursting at the seams about it because it's very, very thrilling. But it started as this really cute 54 Below show where Laura Osnes and Ben Rahala were like, hey, let's just bring in like a bunch of these like cool like Broadway girls and sing like classic Disney tunes. And we'll just like kind of do Disney bounding where we like sort of dress up sort of ask in the, you know, the Disney characters, the princesses. And we sort of like mocked kind of the it was like a kind of a campy version of the show.

We would get up and pretend like we were the characters, but we weren't. But we were us. It was it was cute. And it quickly became 54 Below's like fastest selling show where we would sell out within like two minutes. Wow. It wasn't until Susan Egan Hartman came on and she's the original Belle, also the voice of Megara in Hercules, the animated film, when she came out for our first sort of out of town, she and her husband were like, we want to produce this. We think that it's going to be amazing. And we were like fierce. And so she started it wasn't until she signed on. She really had like big, big ideas for the show. And it just sort of from there sort of like launched so greatly. And it's just one of the greatest experiences because you see in the audiences how much joy it brings and nostalgia because we just get up there and we sing your favorite Disney classics and we tell behind the scenes stories and talk about what it was like to be like OG princesses.

And like, I really wish that I could have seen that when I was a kid. Totally. And it's just fun and it's friends love. And especially during like hard times, people just want to be happy. Yeah. And so I just feel fortunate to be a part of that and also fortunate to be a part of like the company and a producer on that side of it, because we all like own a part of the company as well. So we wanted to succeed. And it's kind of nice to sort of be like on the other side of the industry in that way, where we're like really have our hands in developing it. And our opinions matter. And we're not just like hired guns. And so it's really nice. It's very cool.

[42:30] Dan Tracy: And you guys have done concerts all over the country and, you know, will continue to post, you know, post COVID nonsense. But it is just it's one of the coolest things I got to do one back in I forget what year it was, but you had like there was like a prince day where like the princes came and it was like it was all of these all of these guys showed up and I got to sing a song from Cinderella with Laura and Lauren. I didn't get to do Cinderella together. So that was a really that was a highlight of my career for sure. So they're very cool. They're wonderful events. And I hope that it continues. And I'm excited. This is kind of like we're sort of a breaking news podcast, Dan. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Like check it out. We always go follow. Yeah. We never plan for breaking news to happen because I texted you like last week and I was like, hey, do you want to do this podcast of ours? But like we're a real news. We're in a real news show. Look at that. You really are. And it's not fake. It's real. That's right.

[43:28] Joe Carroll: Exactly. You were amazing in Cinderella, by the way.

[43:34] Courtney Reed: Oh, well, that's great. He was he was fine. Let's not do that to his ego. He doesn't need that right now. He's you.

[43:39] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I'm totally secure. I don't need anybody telling me that. Yeah, let's not.

[43:43] Joe Carroll: Exactly. His podcast. He doesn't. Yeah, exactly. Because I haven't worked in a year and my industry is burning. So, Courtney, you've you've we love you. Thank you for taking all this time with us. We finish up with this question that you've done so much, you've accomplished so much in your career so far. But we wonder what you're we call it the unreachable star question, which is like, is there something for you that is on the horizon, in the distance, something that you're chasing that you would like to reach?

[44:19] Courtney Reed: I want to be in Moulin Rouge. You're not supposed to say that, but like, yeah, I just want to be in that show because I'm obsessed with the movie. I'm obsessed with the movie. I want to be in that show.

[44:31] Dan Tracy: That's awesome. Because sometimes we ask that question and people are like, there's like sort of like more existential or more meta or whatever. And like we asked, we asked Robin Herder that question and she was like, I want to win a Tony Award. And it was just like, you know, and now she's a Tony nominee. So like, put it to the universe. Absolutely. Why not? Right. It's like, I don't want to like jinx it, but like, I mean, I just hope that like Broadway comes back. And even if it's, I want to play that role, even if it's like on the national tour or something like, you know, it had originally like was set to like play in LA. I'd love to play LA again. Like I love just being in LA and it's just, I just love the weather there.

It's just so nice. It's like sunshine and butterflies every day. I'm like, how could you not live here? But yeah, I'd love to do that show. And I just recently rewatched that movie and was just like, oh, so good. But yeah. But as far as like career wise, I'd love to do like an awesome TV show, like, like New Girl, which I think, I think is like so funny or like not a sitcom, like Friends, even though I think Friends is one of my favorite shows, but something that I feel like I would have fun and be around like really fun people and love going to work every day.

[45:50] Joe Carroll: Yeah. It seems like a New Girl that they love to go into work every day. Alex and I are watching it right now. That's like one of our quarantine shows to make us feel better about the state of the world. We're just rewatching it. It's just like, it's so joyful. It makes you want to do something like that. You're like, I want to do that. I want to go to work with these people.

[46:06] Courtney Reed: Yes. And their timing. I mean, they have the most ridiculous cast. That cast is amazing. They just really lucked out on that cast and the same with Friends. But you cannot, it's so hard to find people that have timing like that because you have material, you read the material and they lift it off the page and it's just so good. And you're like, these people are just, they're pros. They're the best. It's like a masterclass in comedy. It's so funny because if you read it, you'd be like, this is kind of cute. And then you see them do it and you're like, wow, I just admire them so much. I went back and reread the, I tried to find the script when, when Nick and Schmidt do the cookie exchange, you, when, when Schmidt gets him a cookie and he's like, I got you cookie, got me cookie, man.

Do you remember this, this part, Dan, do you remember this part? Anyway, they're, they, it's just to your point that like, if you read it on the page, what they're doing, it is, you know, it's, it's words on a page. And then the choices that they make on top of the, it just is, it's, it's unbelievable because that scene is one of my favorites. Schmidt buys Nick a cookie and Nick doesn't know what to do about it. He's like, why are you buying me a cookie? And Schmidt's like, I just, I love you. And they go back anyway. Jack Johnson and Max Greenfield?

[47:20] Joe Carroll: Yeah, Max Greenfield. Yeah. Yeah. And Jake Johnson. I mean, they're like comic geniuses. And even, even, um, Jess, what's her name? First season. She's so annoying season one. You're like, God, just shut up.

[47:36] Courtney Reed: But she's so good at what she does. She's so good. She's so good. There's just not a weak link on the show besides CeCe. CeCe's kind of weak a little bit sometimes, right?

[47:45] Joe Carroll: They start writing away like, yeah. But also with, with, um, Zooey Deschanel, it's so clear on that show that like her, her fatal flaw is that she wants everyone to like her every single episode. She wants everyone to like her. So then she like it all disintegrates. Like her world falls apart when she, you know what I mean? It's just so clear. Anyway, it's so clear. Dan and I, Dan and I talk about that nonsense all the time with form. And so we don't need to nerd out about that because we've, we've wasted enough of your time. What you're looking at, what are you looking at? Mr. No, I was thinking about what you were saying because that exactly ties into something we were writing anyway. Um, Courtney, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for giving us your time and sharing all your stories and being fun and sharing your awesome attitude with everyone. Where can people find you in the world? Uh, social channels. Do you have anything to promote?

[48:33] Courtney Reed: I have nothing to promote, but, um, at Rhodes Reed, R-H-O-D-E-S-R-E-E-D. Cause I'm, I love Instagram. I don't do the TikToks. I think I'm too old. I don't know how to do it. It's okay.

[48:46] Joe Carroll: But TikTok, so that's okay. I do love Instagram. I like, I, I, I don't, I'm not, we don't need it. Our listeners know how I feel about social media, Dan. We can skip that, but, but you're a wonderful follow. You're hilarious and fantastic on Instagram. Um, Broadway Princess Party, check it out. Um, and, uh, and then in 2021, uh, you know, find Courtney Reed on the first national tour slash London production slash Broadway production, Moulin Rouge.

[49:14] Courtney Reed: Exactly. You heard it here first. Putting it on the vision, on the vision board.

[49:19] Courtney Reed: Oh my gosh. Amazing. Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. You guys are so awesome. Thank you for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals. We are produced by Dan Tracy and Joe Carroll, your hosts. You can find us on Instagram at Guys Who Like Musicals or on Twitter at Musical Guys. For more information about us or our show, please visit our new website at guyswholikemusicals.com. You can find our merch store, our Patreon page, and more. Thanks for listening.