This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Alex Smolowe: Hey, Nick.

[0:01] Nik Walker: Dude, uh.

[0:04] Alex Smolowe: So I want to keep this so light and happy, but I do have to say, uh, you know, a certain grand jury came out today and said some stuff.

[0:16] Nik Walker: We're just jumping right in, huh?

[0:17] Alex Smolowe: I gotta. This is like where I come. This is my safe space to come to like get away from the madness of the world.

[0:24] Nik Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[0:25] Alex Smolowe: And here's the thing. I'm not gonna say any names. I'm not gonna, I'm not even we're gonna even gotta.

[0:30] Nik Walker: You don't have to.

[0:31] Alex Smolowe: I don't want to go into detail about it. We don't have to talk about it any more than I'm saying now, but I do want to say, uh, not enough. Not enough. Let's maybe hold people accountable for their actions and not just let, you know, people get away with murder. Let's not do that. Like, let's not do that. I don't know. Let's let's not do that. I mean, everything that's gonna be leading up through November is about to get real. I mean, it's been dark, but it's about to, it's about to get real weird.

[0:58] Nik Walker: Real, but you know, you know what the thing, the thing that I do get does give me hope is I check my feed, and like people, granted, you know, your feed is curated to whatever you want to see, but I have seen so many people just with such a good force and the good hope and putting knowledge out there and putting info out there. Our guest today is definitely one of those people, uh, but it I that has given me hope, but I just I just have to make space for that because you know, when people ask me how my day's going so often, I just say, oh yeah, it's a good day. Today, I'm pissed, but I'm like happy to be here. You know what I mean? And I could hold both in space, you know. That is my complexity as an artist that I can do that.

[1:39] Alex Smolowe: Your complexity as an artist. So if as an artist you could sum all these feelings up into one word, what would it be?

[1:48] Nik Walker: Fuuuck.

[1:50] Alex Smolowe: Little Justice.

[1:53] Nik Walker: Little just it.

[1:56] Alex Smolowe: Little just.

[2:00] Nik Walker: Fuck yeah.

[2:02] Alex Smolowe: I was kind of hoping you's just a good one.

[2:07] Nik Walker: Oh God. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Little Justice, this thing we do. I am Nik Walker.

[2:15] Alex Smolowe: I'm Alex Smolowe.

[2:18] Nik Walker: Sometimes you just gotta give a just a general yell just to get it out.

[2:22] Alex Smolowe: Shout it out.

[2:23] Nik Walker: Just shout it out, you know, and hope that hope that we can edit it in post. But uh welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. We are so glad to be here talking movies with you today. And we are so glad about today because we have a guest who um truly I have wanted to get this man on this podcast for a long, long time. He is a friend, he's an amazing actor, an incredible person, really, and uh is just a light in the lives of so many. Brandon Routh, get on in here.

[2:48] Brandon Routh: How you doing?

[2:50] Nik Walker: Silence.

[2:50] Brandon Routh: Oh and oh no. Did you just introduce me and my Wi-Fi cut out just so you shouldn't hear the same.

[2:58] Nik Walker: It's okay. It's brilliant. You totally you started the wind up, and I started to hear these nice things, and then it just went a bit beautiful climax. And then I thought I heard a drum roll finally.

[3:11] Alex Smolowe: No, it was it was perfect. That's exactly how this should go. It's 2020. This is it. This is how it should dude. How are you doing, man?

[3:17] Brandon Routh: Oh, you're doing all right, you know, one day at a time.

[3:21] Nik Walker: Yep. One day. One day at a time. That's what we're saying. That's all you can really do. Uh you can really do.

[3:27] Brandon Routh: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, uh this this this man. If you don't know this man, um, then you guys have not been paying attention because he has been everywhere in the world. Uh, Scott Pilgrim, Legends of Tomorrow, uh more TV shows than I can count. Perhaps the thing that that that means the most to me, and I will tell why in a second, because Brandon, I've actually never told you the story, uh, is that this man came onto the scene as Superman uh in Superman Returns, um, and uh blew us all away. Um really, really, really, really, really incredible performance. And probably um one just just one of the I I honestly and I will say this and I will hold myself to this, one of the best versions of Superman that's ever been on on a screen. Just kindness. Just kindness.

[4:11] Brandon Routh: And that's that's what we love.

[4:13] Nik Walker: That's very kind of you, thank you.

[4:14] Brandon Routh: No, it it's the truth, man. It's the truth. Uh so we are just so happy to have him on. But yeah, dude, day at a time, it's pretty crazy. Um, so yeah, what have what have you been doing with your quarterback?

[4:24] Brandon Routh: Yeah, what's you up to?

[4:26] Brandon Routh: Uh well, I've been letting my hair grow. Um and so, you know, maybe I'm at my my longest hair growth. That's that's been exciting, but I'm ready to probably get it cut. But um, you know, that that that means going out into the world. And um currently we're we're pretty much uh we've been quarantined for quite a while. We obviously go out and have some exercise time. But we've done our job as best we can to stay out of the out of the way and uh help this thing to to not to blow over, but um to get through it. Um a lot of talks, a lot of a lot of social uh, you know, we're all we're all here together. So we have uh uh Courtney and I, uh an eight-year-old son now, Leo, who's a big fan of Nyx. Um and uh talking about uh all that and his his wonderful, amazing performances, Burr and and so we've been talking a lot about what's going on in the world. Um so that's been positive, but also scary.

[5:28] Nik Walker: I mean, what's what's that like? I'm I'm super curious with with a young child, because I I have friends with with kids like around that age, maybe a little younger, a little older, but like what's it been like just trying to explain what is going on?

[5:40] Brandon Routh: Um, you know, he's very he picks up things uh very easily in tone and and you know, if if we're not in a if we're in a funk or we read some news, he just hears almost like he feels our emotional shift. He's like, what? What's going on? And so we're often having a lot of conversations. And we, you know, before this, we did our best to talk about things that are important in in the in the world and discrimination and and sexism and and racism and all of these things that are challenges that humanity's dealing with. But now it's it's thrust into the forefront. And so, you know, talking about first started about talking about COVID and and not wanting to frighten him, not making him think that he's in danger.

So it's giving him knowledge, but knowing, letting him know that he's still safe and that we are gonna take care of him. I think is kind of um the thrust. And and Courtney's really great about knowing how to manage these conversations. So I usually just I I follow her lead. Um so it's like telling him no that this this thing is happening, it's affecting a lot of people, and it is dangerous, but but you're safe because children have a much better job of uh fighting and aren't getting as sick as often. And and we're doing everything we can by staying home and wearing masks when we go out to uh to do our best to to keep ourselves safe. So you keep it short and sweet, yeah, but you do have to give them the the truth to a degree.

It's when you hide the truth, especially for Leo, because he's very good at sussing out when you're hiding something. Um, if you can give him enough of a truth about it, then he can make sense of it because it's when kids can't make sense of an experience that they come up with their own idea and understanding. Um that gets into a whole other thing of of like unconscious memories that we have, uh childhood trauma that that our parents didn't explain when some big event happened in our lives. They didn't explain what was happening in a way that we could understand. So we've made up our own our own story, which is often wrong.

[7:54] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[7:55] Brandon Routh: Yep. Yeah, I mean, it's it's gonna be a whole generation of kids. Sorry to cut you off there. Um where like he this is just at at that moment in his life where he's supposed to be going, you know, kind of breaking away a little bit to start socializing and being away from the parents and the home during the day and like getting sort of that outward thing, and now suddenly it's it's a long-term period of being being back in. I'm sure that's that's gotta be uh confusing.

[8:17] Brandon Routh: I'm his playmate. I'm his I'm his I'm his major playmate at this point and mom.

[8:23] Nik Walker: You could have worse playmates.

[8:24] Brandon Routh: No, I know. So it's to me, it's me letting loose and letting go. And yeah, is it is that fun for you?

[8:29] Brandon Routh: I it's it's an experiment, you know. I I gotta tell you, it's uh being a parent is that is continual letting go um of a lot of things. But yeah, you know, I have to the big thing now is is um he just got a switch for his eighth birthday. We finally got that through. Yeah, and so he's he's he loves Mario Brothers, the original Mario Brothers, and so he's the Super Mario maker too. So he's making all kinds of Super Mario levels, and he's played many of the Super Mario games. So we go to the park, we're just on a walk, and we're imagining fighting Koopas and Bowser and Spiney's and all these things. So he's making it up, and I'm just following behind him. You know, I we're running. He's like, run up, left, right, dodge. And I realized after a couple days of doing this that he wasn't looking behind me, so I didn't have to do all the dodging and shifting. I could just run behind him.

[9:21] Nik Walker: Uh it's a cheat code.

[9:22] Brandon Routh: Yeah, yeah. But then I realized actually I needed to get a workout, so maybe I should be doing those things. It's like the only workout I'm getting.

[9:30] Nik Walker: So brilliant. No, but this is the thing that I I definitely want to say. And uh, you know, you since I have met you, man, you you have always led with such a positive honesty, and it really is, you know. I think I you know, uh having gotten to hang out with you and your and your amazing family, it is absolutely this thing of of just being real, but also again, I just gotta say, kindness. Um, and and that that actually leads me into kind of my not even question, but I just I just I'm I really gotta prop you up, dude. Because so you know, for those of you who listen in from time to time, I I did do a show called Hamilton, and I was on the road with the show for two years, and those two years were incredibly fulfilling and rewarding, and I got to do amazing things and uh meet amazing people, but it was also incredibly incredibly lonely.

Um, and especially as Burr, you you know, my show is my life, so I'm I'm you know, everything I'm doing in the day is about those three hours at night, or in you know the matinee. So we met really randomly, I think, because you were uh it was it was uh honestly because of Leo.

[10:37] Brandon Routh: Yeah.

[10:38] Nik Walker: Cause Leo, uh I mean, you Leo was at the stage door and saw, you know, and was just like being amazing. I think he was dressed up like was that when he was dressed up like he had like a little, I think you seem to remember like a cravat.

[10:50] Brandon Routh: Yes, we made we made it, we made a cravat out of something, Courtney. I think it was her slip.

[10:56] Nik Walker: I think it was like what is a cravat?

[11:01] Brandon Routh: Oh, you if you don't know, buddy, then you need to know because it's I guess I'll it's a frilly. No, it's not even it's a frilly, it's like a it's the it's like the little frilly thing hang down in front of you before the bow tie. Um and yes, yes, before the before the the bow tie, the jabot is is what's also called the you know, whatever. But it was brilliant. This kid looked amazing and and was like wearing this fine, like like almost like like veloce. Velvet jacket. Red velvet. Oh my god, it was so awesome. And I was like, yo, this kid is amazing. And then uh his father walks up and I'm like, wow, I know this man. Um and but also was just the kindest man, and we I I I think we just ended up staying in touch after that. Because then when the show came to Des Moines. I don't think we exchanged numbers, but I but a Twitter, I think it was Twitter or something. I I saw Twitter, yes, or Instagram or something. We reached out and found each other.

[12:00] Brandon Routh: No, no, dude, it's beautiful.

[12:01] Nik Walker: So Des Moines, uh uh the reason bringing this this story to to a close, um you were so kind. You brought you brought the family back. You came to see the show again. And then you, if and I hope it's okay that I say this, you took my cast out for dinner, which was so kind of you. That's a big cast. It's a bit, and it was it was about 10, it was like dinner. I think it was about like 10 or 10 or 12 of us that we just went out and like it was just like this restaurant that you I don't know, I don't know how you what you did, what you said, what you, you know, but like you set that set that up. And and I and I got I tell you this because for two reasons. Number one, because you know, again, we're we're on the road and we're getting paid good money to do a good show and we're having fun, but like to have to be taken care of by people is something that it means a lot to us.

Every city we go to to have that kindness, um, especially because Des Moines specifically was such a good city uh for us, where like you know, I that was like the Yankee Doodle pop city. That was like all these cool things that happen in that city. And but but just that, and then on top of that, I will say, uh, and this is this is when we get a little mushy, so I'm gonna I'm gonna be real with you. Um, so when I you talk about stories from your past, uh my brother, this is gonna it's gonna get really dark, but it's gonna get then much lighter. My brother uh was put in jail when I was 16, uh, 17, um, and the day that we found out that he would be in there for a long, long time, the day that his uh that his verdict came down, my mom, it was just my mom and me, and she took us to the movie theater and we saw Superman Returns.

[13:40] Brandon Routh: Wow.

[13:41] Nik Walker: And it it truly, and I'm and I I swear, I swear to goodness, man, and I'm just telling you, like, you really don't I know I'm sure you've heard all these stories at this point in your career, but like that was such a that movie, just seeing seeing goodness on screen, like you have no idea what that did, dude. Uh so thank you, because that that truly was something that that helped me out. So yeah, man, it's it's kind of this crazy kismet thing meeting you. Cause I'm like, yeah, that that was a huge moment in my in my life.

[14:11] Brandon Routh: You're welcome. I mean, I'm so happy that that the the film was there to help support you in that time. And I think that's one of the amazing things that art gives us sometimes we need an escape. Sometimes we need to hear that somebody else has the story that we have had. And sometimes it's just a hero.

[14:32] Nik Walker: Yeah, man. You know, we all need that sometimes.

[14:37] Alex Smolowe: And I'm thanks for sharing.

[14:40] Brandon Routh: Oh, hey.

[14:40] Alex Smolowe: What was it like meeting me, Nick?

[14:42] Brandon Routh: It was uh it was disturbing, you know, because I I met you and I knew that you would hurt me in some way.

[14:49] Nik Walker: You would probably, you know.

[14:51] Brandon Routh: Alex uh uh is obsessed with my wife and uh and really has done everything he can to destroy my.

[14:59] Nik Walker: No, no, no.

[15:01] Brandon Routh: Let's be real.

[15:02] Nik Walker: You know what I mean?

[15:03] Brandon Routh: Let's be real.

[15:04] Nik Walker: It's really, you know, he shows up my wife now lives out by you guys.

[15:08] Brandon Routh: So he shows up at my wife's house.

[15:11] Nik Walker: It's very terrifying that I don't have any access or understanding of what could happen from day to day.

[15:17] Brandon Routh: Um but yeah, let's you you live in uh you live in LA now, but and this will get into our theme for today. Uh you're from Norwalk, Iowa, which is about five miles south of Des Moines.

[15:30] Brandon Routh: And uh, you know, that's one of the reasons when when Nick and the cast was in was in Des Moines that I wanted to treat them well, have a good experience in in my home state, uh, represent and also just say, you know, how how much it Hamilton had influenced in such a positive way our lives, and um, and they should know that and celebrate that.

[15:52] Brandon Routh: And also it was just cool for us and for Leo to be able to experience that. We've never we've never done that for anybody else or any other cast. It was just this you know, kind of unique moment in in time.

[16:03] Nik Walker: And um is it kind of a big thing to roll through Des Moines? I I've never been to Des Moines personally, is it a big thing?

[16:09] Brandon Routh: No, I don't think it's a big thing to roll through Des Moines, but no, I mean like for Des Moines, like like Hamilton coming through is acting like a bigger net people flocking in from all around the state.

[16:16] Brandon Routh: Yeah, I mean I I think the show did very well. Well sold out the the whole time I uh I imagine um You know, we don't get everything. We don't have we don't have a professional sports team of any kind in in Des Moines uh of of the upper echelon.

[16:34] Brandon Routh: Um so you know, some in many ways we get overlooked. Um, but thankfully for arts and things like that, um, I think our audiences show up and they respect and respond to it.

[16:45] Brandon Routh: So thankfully we get things like Hamilton.

[16:48] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[16:49] Brandon Routh: Cool.

[16:50] Nik Walker: Yeah, dude. No, it's it was and I will say truly, Des Moines, you know, there, and like I I say this, it's so funny because like at a certain point, all the towns you go to blur together just because you've seen so many.

[17:01] Nik Walker: But Des Moines absolutely stands out. We we we it was it was like one of those times where it was like, oh man, okay, Des Moines, we're gonna go to Des Moines, cool, cool, cool.

[17:09] Nik Walker: How long we're spending there? Oh, like a month. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool. All right, let's figure that out.

[17:13] Nik Walker: Um, but then we go there and it's actually like one of the most fun towns that we that we go to. Um, and like we had a blast, and that was also like our first summer as a cast.

[17:22] Nik Walker: So like we were already like partying and then and then this great town shows up, and it was just great.

[17:27] Brandon Routh: Yeah.

[17:28] Nik Walker: Yeah, man. So okay, so talk to us a little bit about that. So you're coming from you're coming from Norwalk, go to University of Iowa, and then when how does how do you let me let me?

[17:37] Nik Walker: I guess this is really the the most important question. How do you end up in the Christina Aguilera video?

[17:44] Brandon Routh: That's what I want to know.

[17:46] Brandon Routh: Yeah. Let's let's kind of connect those dots. I mean, it is the pinnacle in many ways of my career.

[17:53] Brandon Routh: Um just down. Downhill from there.

[17:55] Brandon Routh: Well, you know, I was going uh this was I think this is the first year or first couple months I was out in Los Angeles, and uh it was a uh through casting, I think through my modeling agency or my commercial agency.

[18:08] Brandon Routh: Cattle call, you know, went to I think it was a castaway studios, which is on used to be on Beverly uh Boulevard or in Los Angeles, and um it was just you know, I don't even know what we were supposed to do, dance or just act cool, which I can do neither of, but somehow I was hired um because I looked like I could do it still, and uh and then you know uh that was it.

[18:33] Brandon Routh: And I was excited, and I didn't even know who who who Christina Aguilera was at the time, although I had heard the genie in the bottle song a little bit.

[18:41] Brandon Routh: So I was like, oh I've heard the song on the radio, that's who she is. Um and then I showed up with a whole bunch of other, you know, 20 something guys and some um very talented dancers, uh the women, and they danced and we sat on the couch like we were cool, and um that was a couple days, couple days of work.

[19:04] Alex Smolowe: Brilliant, brilliant.

[19:06] Brandon Routh: Was it was it very like I mean, this is kind of your first taste of being on this large of a I mean, uh I'm assuming what was a large production, I mean it's what a girl wants.

[19:16] Brandon Routh: So that's you know, was this? I mean, was it jarring? Was it just kind of like, okay, no, this is this is chill, you know.

[19:21] Brandon Routh: You know, I mean, like, what what was the it wasn't the first set I'd been on, but it was the first music video, and I think it was the kind of flash just uh so it was it was pretty I I was a little starstruck in and even though she had just come on the scene to be in the video.

[19:36] Brandon Routh: So it was I was pretty uh excited about it, just talking to all the other the other young people about their experiences, and and most of them were had done other music videos or complaining about the hours because you don't get it's a they're long like 16-18 hour days, and you know, you don't get treated uh you know like you do um with other productions sometimes.

[19:59] Brandon Routh: And you just listen to the song play over.

[20:02] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[20:03] Brandon Routh: And try to act like I I know how to dance. Or maybe I thought I did know how to dance then, but uh, or at least move with rhythm.

[20:11] Brandon Routh: I can move with rhythm. That's what that's what I've got.

[20:13] Alex Smolowe: Listen, that's that's what we've all got.

[20:14] Brandon Routh: So now it's a funny thing that I can just go, look, there's my elbow, there's this half of my face. There's my shirt.

[20:21] Alex Smolowe: So was was this like had you like come from Iowa, like to move to LA seeking, you know, whatever, like what what were the circumstances that even brought you here?

[20:29] Brandon Routh: So uh yeah, long story short, I was going to the University of Iowa as an English major, loved the college experience, and wanted to continue that then uh through uh just kind of not a fluke, but a couple things happened during spring break of my freshman year, and I looked into a local modeling talent agency in Des Moines.

[20:54] Brandon Routh: They said, Hey, there's we think you gotta look. There's this thing in New York called INTA, it's a basically a big cattle call uh where you do like runway and you do monologues and these little things, and and uh agents and managers go and you could get representation.

[21:09] Brandon Routh: So I ended up doing that. My parents didn't have the money, but they you know put it on their credit cards and sent me out there because my parents are both musicians. My mom's a singer, my dad's a drummer, and they met playing jazz in the Des Moines big band back in the late 70s.

[21:24] Brandon Routh: So the performance was in a family, and my sister's a singer-songwriter. Anyway, I did it. I thought this is a door that's open. Why not give this a shot? Went out there, had success, met my first manager and and uh got a modeling agent.

[21:38] Brandon Routh: And um my the manager said, Hey, why don't you come out to LA for three months and give it a shot? Which was a really challenging decision for me because I I wanted to um uh I was very excited about school and going back to school.

[21:52] Brandon Routh: Uh, but I decided to do it, came out, moved out to Downey, California, which is about 40 minutes outside of LA, and uh lived with my great aunt and uncle for about six months.

[22:01] Brandon Routh: And it was in that process or in that time period that the music video happened, and then my first job, which was uh a small part on a sitcom with five five lines. And then I was hooked basically after I did that sitcom because of the live studio audience and uh uh that had me hooked, and I and I thought I'm gonna stay.

[22:19] Alex Smolowe: Give us a shot for real.

[22:20] Brandon Routh: Yeah, because you I you're saying like you'd never even really considered doing it before, you know. So to like that's it's a big transition to think like, oh, like I'm an English major and I'm studying to do this and I'm having fun in school to being like on a sound stage, you know, with an audience and on TV, like that. That's a pretty dramatic shift.

[22:36] Brandon Routh: And it only went up from there.

[22:40] Brandon Routh: Yeah, I mean, I I I'm very was very naive at the time, and that's what allowed me to to have the audacity to think that I had a chance at this, um, and to not be too afraid, I guess, uh, of failure.

[22:56] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[22:57] Brandon Routh: Um, I have fear in other places, but that for some reason I was like, oh, this makes sense. I could do this, sure. And and it was because of that um naivety and and ignorance, I guess, um, that helped me begin.

[23:11] Brandon Routh: My first time on a sound stage, I'm I remember being back at the craft service going, wow, I'm just like back here talking to the cast. Wow, this is cool.

[23:21] Brandon Routh: And I was probably like doing that thing that a lot of um green actors do when the first time I've said it was talking too much, insinuating yourself too much with the main cast.

[23:31] Brandon Routh: Um, because literally I had I said five words um, you know, in this thing.

[23:37] Alex Smolowe: Oh, I'm sure that it yeah, it's like that show extras. Did you ever watch that?

[23:40] Brandon Routh: Very much.

[23:42] Alex Smolowe: But it's but it's also but it's also this great thing because you know, it you know, I I I love the audacity because like so, you know, I'm teaching right now, I'm teaching MYU, and that's half of what I'm telling my students is just like so much of this is just the the confidence to just step out there and try it.

[23:59] Alex Smolowe: Do you know what I mean? And and and see what happens and see what happens if you talk to the principal cast members and see what happens.

[24:05] Alex Smolowe: You know, I mean like because there's no there's truly no rules to this thing. That I think is the thing that I always find is like no matter what you studied in school, no matter what you did, no matter how good your technique is, or whatever you think you are, at the end of the day, like it's it's such a crapshoot anyway that you might as well just be yourself and just like see what happens, you know, and that's what it sounds like.

[24:24] Brandon Routh: Yeah with this.

[24:25] Brandon Routh: I mean, I there are no there are rules, but a lot of the time following the rules doesn't make you stand out and and doesn't you don't always have to follow the rules in life you if you're not hurting anybody.

[24:41] Brandon Routh: You know, sometimes m that's why rules are are meant to be to be broken or changed um you know I you you have to obviously see obviously have some kind of s uh level of uh uh social uh emotional intelligence to know if you're over talking or over sharing or asking questions or bugging somebody which I I don't think I had at the time yep but I was also I don't know I I did okay I didn't get kicked off the set and I don't think I was too much but I was probably more than I than they were expecting.

[25:14] Alex Smolowe: Yeah but I mean that's it's an experience you remember and like I'm I'm sure unless you're being really bad that you know they appreciate someone who's excited to be there who wants to be there who's you know not just going through the motions.

[25:25] Brandon Routh: And and again clearly it it worked out pretty pretty damn well.

[25:28] Alex Smolowe: All right ladies and gentlemen we're gonna take a quick an advertisement break to to pay for things but when we come back we will have some buddy money money money movie choices for you.

[25:40] Brandon Routh: We will be right back.

[25:45] Alex Smolowe: All right and we're back from whatever advertisement just paid our bills. Uh I think I think you know Brandon when I look at your career I look at your life I I think I want to just go ahead and say this.

[25:56] Alex Smolowe: I think you've done okay I think you've kind of achieved some things uh you know I and what do I know? I'm just a guy more or less.

[26:04] Brandon Routh: Yeah no I mean uh uh career wise uh uh there's definitely been great success and and looking back at all the experiences you have in life you know I think it's even the downs um are important experiences to have that's the the life of anybody I think is is about your successes and your failures and and when you have a failure it it is understanding why it might have happened why it needed to happen so that you could learn something and and then you can move forward in a and create a different path the next time you're presented you know these these things kept happening to me in my life and uh these some negative things would keep happening I go why does this keep happening I realized that or somebody wiser than I had brought up the idea that they keep happening because you have to it's an opportunity to deal with it in a different way and until you do it's gonna keep coming up it's gonna keep manifesting um for you in this way.

[26:04] Alex Smolowe: What's it been like uh now you know you you're married and you have you have a son that you're spending a lot of time with like what how does how does that compare how how is how did your experience with career ups and downs shape coming into being a dad and living the life you're living now?

[26:04] Brandon Routh: That's a good question I have to think about um rather than just give a trite answer.

[27:31] Alex Smolowe: Sorry we get deep on this show.

[27:33] Brandon Routh: Yeah we try we try you know I I think that if we're gonna parallel acting and parenting it it's about listening those are both valuable aspects of being successful at both of those things.

[27:46] Brandon Routh: And when I say listening it's it's listening to your child also listening to your partner and listening to yourself. You know so there's that that also lines up with self-awareness because you have to and the study of humanity and the study of people.

[28:05] Brandon Routh: Because in order to be a successful actor, I think it's important to understand that you you're doing a study of people. How does this person interact in the situation? So I have to first know how I might react to the situation.

[28:21] Brandon Routh: And then once I have a basis of understanding how I react to the situation, I can use that to help create with building of the character. But it also goes to uh when you're parenting, listening and understanding why you why you react in a certain way to a child yelling or being frustrated or not following the rules that you put forth and be aware of what comes up.

[28:46] Brandon Routh: What is your response? Are you responding with love and compassion, or are you responding out of some stored response that a parent showed you that has become that you that you're just mimicking without even knowing that you're doing it?

[29:06] Brandon Routh: So, you know, I've learned a lot and I I wish I could go back and and change some some ways that I have responded to things earlier in my parenting career.

[29:16] Brandon Routh: But you, you, you, I I've learned from many of those and go, you know what? I don't have to, I don't have to do it the same way, or I don't have to respond to, I can make my own choice and it's important to realize that I have a choice in how I react to this situation to stop some of the patterns of, you know, my, um, I had lovely parents and they're wonderful people, but we all make mistakes along the way. And then as you become a parent, it's your opportunity to look at that again and say, Hey, do I want to pass this down, or do I want to change it for the better?

[29:48] Alex Smolowe: Yeah. Has it shaped?

[29:50] Brandon Routh: Oh, sorry, go ahead.

[29:51] Alex Smolowe: No, no, no, go, no, no. Brandon, please. Please, you can.

[29:55] Alex Smolowe: Uh, I was gonna, has it shaped your approach to your career? Because your wife is also an actress, so you guys kind of have similar career trajectories. Have things altered in the last few years?

[30:06] Brandon Routh: Well, I think we've become more open to where we work, and your idea about what you need in a career and where you want to be shifts with a child because what becomes the focus is family, and where career used to be like the thing, the driving force, it becomes a little bit less important in some ways because what's important is providing finances and a house and a roof and food and stability and safety. Um, and so you know, you kind of those things shift a little bit and say, you know what, where can we as a family go and be safe and stable and have more of a normal life? You know, when we were in, when I first started working in Vancouver on Legends of Tomorrow, it was challenging because I was having to fly back and forth every weekend, um, and only seeing Leo, you know, and Courtney for 36 to 48 hours or maybe even 24 hours a week.

Um, and it was exhausting. Um, but I had to do it. And then when Courtney started working on Supernatural, I saw them more often, and then Courtney started working on Legends and became a series regular, and then we were doing great, and Leo was going to school up there, um, and we were all in the same place. And whereas Vancouver was, it's a lovely city, but it wasn't where I wanted to be. It was like, oh, this is great. It's a great family place, and we're working. And then when everything happened last year with finishing our time on Legends, we were eager to get back to Los Angeles and restart things there. And we got back to Los Angeles. And then the pandemic hit.

[31:52] Alex Smolowe: And social.

[31:54] Brandon Routh: Yeah. The universe was like, you want more time with your kids.

[31:57] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, just social use. And the unraveling of civilization and all these things. And we're like, you know what? Canada's, let's go. Maybe we should go back to Vancouver.

[32:08] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, like it was pretty great up there.

[32:10] Brandon Routh: Oh yeah, man. No, it's crazy, you know, the curveballs that we've all been thrown. And that, and, and but I think, I think what I'm hearing is just even before the pandemic, just the ability to adapt and the ability to forgive, and the ability to be aware and keep growing, I think is, is the ability to adapt and to let go and to take responsibility.

[32:31] Alex Smolowe: We're talking a lot about movies, aren't we?

[32:33] Brandon Routh: I mean, yeah, you know, these are things that these are life skills that everyone needs, and we're all, whether we know it or not, we're hopefully learning them. And when you become more aware of your, you know, everyone's need to learn things, um, it becomes easier and less painful. You know, I resisted changing for a very long time. I might have been successful with some of my projects, but I was also very stubborn and ignorant to a lot of my flaws and, uh, and things that I needed to do and take responsibility for and the way I showed up for my family and for myself, and you know, uh, it's a continual, it's a continual change. Uh, people say, you know, those phrases, the older you get, the less you think you know.

And that it's so true. And I think letting go of what you think you know is important. That's cliche. But you know when I was younger I was more judgmental of my, of people. And so I was also judgmental of characters. So I had an inability to play certain characters because I blocked them out. It's like why would anybody do this? I can't interest why wouldn't it be that stupid or be that mean to do those things? And then I realized through work and meeting people and being alive and also discussions with Courtney that you, you know there's a reason why everyone is the way they are. There's a reason why our president is the person that he is right now. He didn't just, he wasn't born a terrible human being. There were all kinds of these incidents and events in his life, lack of love, trauma, oppression in his own way that has created this version of him.

[34:30] Alex Smolowe: Yeah, I don't know, I'm rambling, but that's how you can, you have to be more accepting of the story of a person in order to I guess step into their shoes as an actor and that also helps as life to accept people in life who are different from you.

[34:49] Alex Smolowe: Do you see it as like a sympathy you need to have? Like do you need to, is it feeling where they're coming from and putting yourself in that position or is it just kind of basic understanding?

[34:58] Brandon Routh: I think we have to have, I think the key to helping all this is empathy, um, and compassion. Because look, I can, I can think of, I can picture, I can put myself in young Donald Trump's shoes as a child, although I don't know his experiences, but I've seen enough movies and heard stories enough to know that pretty easy to imagine. If you, if you don't water a plant, what's gonna happen to it? If you don't give love to somebody, how can they know love? So I don't excuse what he's doing. Um, but I understand and I, and I, and so that's the thing. Also, people get into place with like I have love for everybody. I have, I have love for humanity, but I don't excuse and I don't tolerate you hurting and oppressing another human being. So I won't, just because I might have love for you, doesn't mean you get to walk all over me and do whatever you want.

[36:04] Alex Smolowe: Right.

[36:05] Brandon Routh: The human experience is me saying, no, that's not what I want, and I don't think that is loving and kind and compassionate.

[36:15] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[36:15] Brandon Routh: So, the correlations between what's going on with between the government and the people right now is so akin to an abusive relation so much. It's not like the correlation is exact.

[36:28] Alex Smolowe: No, it's ridiculous.

[36:30] Brandon Routh: And, and but I think, I think it is a great, you know, because look, at the end of the day, with everything going on and we are a movie podcast, and we will talk about movies, ladies and gentlemen. I promise you, we will. Movies are coming.

[36:38] Alex Smolowe: The movies are coming, they are coming.

[36:39] Brandon Routh: But this is important.

[36:40] Alex Smolowe: Five hour podcast.

[36:43] Brandon Routh: In the last half hour, we talk about movies.

[36:46] Alex Smolowe: At some point we get there.

[36:48] Brandon Routh: At some point. But no, it's, I think, I think what I love, and this is, you know, I think it's no coincidence that you find yourself in a lot of superhero stories because when I think of, you know, empathy, I think of, um, my big, the thing that comes into my mind always is Killing Joke, and it's that idea of one bad day, right? One bad day separates Batman from Joker. That's all it took was one bad day. And, and I think about, I do think about a Donald Trump, and I, I again, I know I do not excuse him, and I do not excuse anybody who is enacting any sort of pain on the global or individual community or, or anything, you know, individual community is not a good phrase, but, uh, but I, I don't excuse any of that, but I do understand that this did not come to be.

You, you are born into the world with choice and with openness and the things that happen to you and how you take responsibility for those things, um, really matters. And, and again, I, I just want to say that's what I'm hearing, uh, as you describe your role as a father and as a, and as a responsible actor, right? Is, is the idea that, you know, yeah, you, you take responsibility at some point. At some point, I think it was James Baldwin who said people pay for what they do, and they pay for it quite simply by who they become, by who they allow themselves to become.

[38:03] Brandon Routh: Yeah, and, and that is very much what the responsibility is of an actor, of an artist, of a person to look at themselves and continually, especially when you're in a marriage, um, reevaluate and grow. And, uh, I think that that's just really beautiful that you're doing that. And, um, not to not to take us off this beautiful thing, but there is one topic that I do want to get to before we dive into the theme. We haven't even talked about the theme in the movies.

[38:29] Alex Smolowe: I haven't talked about the theme.

[38:30] Brandon Routh: We haven't talked about anything, we're just talking.

[38:32] Alex Smolowe: No, but it's great, it's great.

[38:33] Brandon Routh: No, no, but, but I do want to, you know, obviously, uh, as I said, uh, you know, your work has meant so much to so many, and there's one person who definitely your work has meant a lot to. Um, and we had, we, we, this person was kind enough to record a message for you, and, and we're not gonna say that we didn't pay for this message, but we did maybe not, but we did. But, uh, let's see if you can hear this. I don't know if you'll be able to hear it, but here we go. Let's see.

[38:59] Unknown speaker: Greetings and salutations, Brandon Routh. One of my favorite actors, you know. It may be because you bear a striking, and by striking, I mean very arousing resemblance to my lover, Bobby Long. Um, Bobby is should be around here somewhere. I think he's out back. He's helping our new pool boy get acquainted. I should go check on him. No, I'm not gonna take up the entire time with that message. I will send it to you because it's quite brilliant, and you need to see his face as he does it. Um, but, but he did want to say.

[39:40] Unknown speaker: You were both making love to George Hamilton. We literally, and of course that the proceeds of that are going to charity. We thought it was a good opportunity to give back.

[39:52] Unknown speaker: Yeah, because we saw it so back to back to the community. We saw that that Justin Long was on because I'm on Cameo and he was doing a charity thing for Cameo, and I was like, you know what? That actually might be hilarious. His only weakness, well, I don't want to, I shouldn't say it on film, um, because I think I could get arrested for it, and I think they're illegal in this country. No, so we hope you don't. I don't think it's fantastic, and I know that he's done many other videos for people as Brandon St. Randy. Um, but for me specifically, I'm honored, and um, it's funny. Uh, you know, Justin's he's hilarious and amazing. Um, and, uh, we, we, you know, we only worked on that movie for, did we only shoot one day?

It was one or two days. It was very short in Pittsburgh. Great time working with Kevin Smith and everyone. Um, but we kind of like, you know, you become family sometimes even in just a short amount of time. And we're don't, we don't haven't talked a lot over the years, but it's like we have that connection through those characters because it made such a positive impact on people. Like people just, it struck a chord with people with those characters and largely because of him. Again, a lot of the time it's knowing when somebody is on it and doing the thing, and you just sit back and kind of react rather than trying to take focus. And that's what I did with Justin. You know, he made that character, and I just, you know, was along for the ride.

It truly, if you haven't seen Zach and Miri Make a Porno, which is a hilarious movie in its own right, that scene is stunningly hysterical. Um, I literally like I was watching it a couple nights ago, I was like, yeah, this is gold. You know, I, it, I mean, and I know this is such a cliché question, but like it, I, you know, did you do you understand when you're, when you're making, when you're making that kind of a scene that that is gonna be like such an iconic thing? Because I got like truly it is, it, it, it just kind of carved its notch into people's memories as just one of the funniest scenes of that year. It was hysterical.

[42:08] Brandon Routh: I mean, I, you know, I don't, I don't, you don't always know what it's going to be when the audience sees it. Uh, I just know that filming it was an amazing experience. And we did, you know, Kevin gave us a dialogue. He, they had the script, um, and they had some like alternate choices for lines. But just a few, and he said, I'm just gonna, you know, you guys do your thing, I'm just gonna let it roll. And we did like three or four 10 minute takes of just like back and forth and improv. And, uh, you know, we were making, busting up, you know, Elizabeth and Seth and our, and each other and Kevin behind the monitors in the crew. So, you know, uh, it felt like there was some kind of gold there. Um, but did I know that it was gonna be, you know, as big as it was for, for the audience? No, but I'm certainly happy that it, happy that it's been that. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant things.

[43:09] Alex Smolowe: Um, all right. Well, I think, I mean look, we've been talking for 46 minutes. We still talk about these movies.

[43:12] Brandon Routh: Oh wow.

[43:14] Alex Smolowe: So, so you know what? Let's take, let's take a break, and when we come back, uh, we will discuss, uh, the theme of today's show because that's, that's an important thing to do is talk about, talk about theme and movies.

[43:27] Brandon Routh: Let's do that.

[43:28] Alex Smolowe: Let's do that.

[43:28] Brandon Routh: Yeah, stay tuned and join us on the next episode, uh, when we actually talk about the thing that we are here to talk about.

[43:38] Alex Smolowe: Bye.

[43:38] Brandon Routh: Little Justin.

[43:42] Alex Smolowe: Little Justin.

[43:48] Brandon Routh: Fuck yeah.