This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:10] Nik Walker: Alright, and we're back. Welcome, welcome, welcome. We're on Little Justice. We have Brandon Routh here. We're talking about now movies, because this is a movie podcast.

[0:19] Alex Smolowe: Is this a movie podcast?

[0:21] Nik Walker: It is in fact. Sometimes we do talk, you know, when Alex is not pursuing my wife, we do talk about films. And that is what we're gonna talk about. I mean, I've we've been texting during this.

[0:31] Alex Smolowe: Please stop.

[0:32] Nik Walker: I don't take a break from pursuit. Please stop.

[0:35] Alex Smolowe: You know, for this wife. God damn awful. Um but no, uh, so we so uh with with Brandon with you being kind of the pride of Des Moines, pride of Iowa and Pride of the Midwest, we thought that this would be a great time to delve into uh what can only be called the Midwestern movie, you know, and look at look at movies that that mean something to us from from you know from the Midwest.

[1:00] So I guess I guess Alex, my first question to you is what what do what is the Midwestern movie? Like, is it because there's I had I had to find out because in my head you said Midwest, and honestly, I never really thought about what is the Midwest.

[1:16] Alex Smolowe: I thought it went like literally from like Iowa all the way to Nevada, like anything that's not the East or West Coast, I just say is the Midwest.

[1:24] Nik Walker: Yeah, inaccurate, inaccurate, very, very inaccurate, and so many people will not like me for not knowing that just because if you don't live in the Midwest, you don't have Midwest pride, so you know, right understandable those flyover states, which is also a thing I didn't know about. My sister-in-law is from Minnesota, so she's Midwest, but I thought that wasn't even Midwest, like that's too far north to be Midwest.

[1:46] Alex Smolowe: Where is it? Is it Narnia for you?

[1:48] Nik Walker: Like what like that's exactly what it is. I don't know. I just live in my little bubble and I don't that's the problem with 2020. Alright, so Midwest is North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio.

[2:04] Alex Smolowe: There we go. Got it.

[2:05] Nik Walker: All of it. And Iowa's right. I mean, you're like as Midwest as Midwest gets.

[2:09] Brandon Routh: You're in the middle of Midwest.

[2:11] Nik Walker: Yeah, we're the we're the we're the brains. We're the head, you know.

[2:14] Alex Smolowe: There it is. You look at the the on the map. So this is a thing then, like Midwest Pride, like what so Barry, maybe you could tell us because you have more experience. What what defines a Midwest person or environment or you know what what are the things that go into that?

[2:28] Brandon Routh: Um, yeah, I mean the Midwest people are generally kind to your face, fairly honest. You know, we have a lot of different weather, so so we get all the seasons.

[2:40] Alex Smolowe: Yep.

[2:40] Brandon Routh: And we think we're, you know, we're a fairly hardy uh group of people having deal with harsh, warm summers and thunderstorms and tornadoes and then freezing winters and blizzards every once in a while. Um we like the outdoors, sports, a lot of a lot of church going folk, yeah, and uh Midwestern food, which is not the healthiest, and farming, obviously. State fairs a big thing in the Midwest.

[3:06] Alex Smolowe: Oh, yeah.

[3:09] Brandon Routh: And pride because um because we very um uh very proud of our of our home state or our home college team because we don't always often like in Iowa, don't have a professional sports team. So people are Iowa Hawkeye fans or Iowa State fans or Northwestern fans.

[3:29] Alex Smolowe: Um is there like rivalry between the neighboring states?

[3:32] Brandon Routh: Neighboring states, I mean, yeah, uh between Iowa and Nebraska. Um is one of the biggest ones.

[3:39] Alex Smolowe: Uh Iowa's Iowans are usually fine with Minnesota and Illinois and uh and Missouri but it's mostly Nebraska that we have a problem with I'm not sure why it's because probably because Iowa State and Nebraska play football a lot um it's one reason who knows maybe it's it's the farming aspect um but other than that we have a problem with Ohio.

[3:39] Nik Walker: Yeah yeah yeah well because because of the Ohio State but that's probably most big ten school in areas and their dominance in college sports well I I gotta I gotta go back and I gotta call out uh Des Moines because I so you know when I was on this tour again uh was doing a roundup of the best food some of the best best you know best whether I did a lot of pizza the lot of you know just like we wanted to get a uh a thing and I wrote it down in my journal and uh I was looking it up last night zombie burger.

[3:39] Brandon Routh: Oh yeah I gotta gotta shout it out because god dang that burger is so good.

[4:42] Nik Walker: That's a weird name for a burger zombie burger dude you don't even know it's what's it made out of what do you it's people Alex they're serving people no it's a burger it's a it's whatever you want you can get you can get a bunch of different burgers from zombie burger you know we should I mean honestly like true like because it was like I think like a maybe a 10 minute walk from the theater and we would go there after shows and uh I'd get like I just get a milkshake and a and a turkey burger double turkey burger with cheese uh fries to go and that was very satiating yeah so I mean y'all have some good food out there for sure.

[5:15] Nik Walker: So Brandon, you're you're like a you're like a down home Midwestern boy. Uh do you think that that played into the Superman thing at all?

[5:21] Brandon Routh: Oh yeah. The fact that that's Clark. I think, you know, that's that's a lot of of who I am. Um that that aspect of small town the naivete again, um for me.

[5:33] Nik Walker: Right.

[5:34] Brandon Routh: The kindness that Clark has in the small town and you know your neighbors and you're kind to your elders and neighbors and that kind of thing.

[5:41] Nik Walker: Yeah, no. Cool, cool, cool. The Midwestern movie. So, you know, we're talking about, like you said, hardy people. We're talking about lots of weather, talk definitely talking about sports. Uh, you know, and there's a lot of I mean, I think I think one of the reasons I like this genre is because this is actually Alex, I think this is a genre that we might want to come back to at some point, just because there's l there's so many movies in this in this genre.

[6:02] Alex Smolowe: There's so many and it and it and it's you know, does the movie explore the actual like what it means? There are movies that are about that environment and those communities. There are movies uh my selection just happens to take place like it it amplifies the story, uh that it is set where it is, but there's nothing about that where it's set that like influences the story.

[6:22] Brandon Routh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It can be it can be anything.

[6:24] Nik Walker: Truly be anything. But but I mean, you know, we'll see how yours you know, I'm sure your choice falls short, Alex, but I I we'll see how it does.

[6:32] Alex Smolowe: Absolutely it does.

[6:33] Nik Walker: But I really enjoyed watching it.

[6:35] Alex Smolowe: And that's great.

[6:35] Nik Walker: And that's all that m did you have fun at the end of the day.

[6:38] Alex Smolowe: That's all that matters. Um, so why don't we you know, because Brandon, you are our illustrious guests, we will start and we will we will, you know, start it off. Uh Alex, do you want to go first or should I go first?

[6:48] Alex Smolowe: Uh I can go first.

[6:50] Nik Walker: I don't think mine's gonna take very long. Um for those of you who have not listened before, uh how we do this is uh we've each selected our version of uh of what we think, what's our favorite Midwest movie.

[7:04] Alex Smolowe: Uh it it doesn't necessarily mean the best, but what's the one that we think uh most resonates with us when we think of what this genre is that we've selected.

[7:15] Nik Walker: Uh so we're gonna cue it up. Uh basically just introducing the movie until one of you guys can guess it.

[7:20] Alex Smolowe: Uh once you got it, call it out and then uh we'll talk about it. So my movie, you'll probably get this really, really quickly because it name drops.

[7:29] Alex Smolowe: Uh it starts in New York. New York City. Uh it's kind of a cramped, you know, one two-bedroom apartment, books, you know, on the shelves, books on the floor. A guy sitting on his couch writing on his laptop, gets a phone call.

[7:44] Nik Walker: He picks it up, the guy on the other end tells him.

[7:47] Alex Smolowe: Hi, listen. According to an unconfirmed report, David Wallace is dead.

[7:52] Nik Walker: What cut to a flashback.

[7:56] Alex Smolowe: This man is younger. He has read about a new author, David Foster Wallace.

[8:02] Nik Walker: Good for you.

[8:03] Alex Smolowe: Uh, who's come on the scene with his book and he gets the idea he's working for Rolling Stone and he gets the idea to go visit him?

[8:09] Nik Walker: He wants to accompany David Foster Wallace uh at the end of the tour.

[8:15] Alex Smolowe: Listen, before we start putting stuff on tape, I I need to ask you something.

[8:20] Nik Walker: I need to know that anything that I say five minutes later not to put in that you're not gonna put in.

[8:27] Alex Smolowe: Absolutely. Just given my level of fatigue and my fuck up quotient lately. It's the only way I can see doing it and not going crazy.

[8:35] Nik Walker: Nope, I I completely understand.

[8:39] Alex Smolowe: Right back on. Uh you agreed to the interview.

[8:45] Nik Walker: This is a recent.

[8:46] Alex Smolowe: This is a very recent film.

[8:47] Brandon Routh: Have you seen it?

[8:50] Alex Smolowe: The end of the tour?

[8:51] Brandon Routh: I'm not uh I'm not with you yet on what the movie is.

[8:55] Alex Smolowe: Okay. It's the the end of the tour.

[8:57] Nik Walker: That's what it's called.

[9:00] Brandon Routh: I don't know this movie.

[9:01] Alex Smolowe: Oh, it's good.

[9:02] Brandon Routh: Really?

[9:03] Alex Smolowe: Yeah.

[9:03] Brandon Routh: It could be that I am uh a father and don't watch a lot of movies, but also it could be that I just don't know.

[9:03] Nik Walker: It could be that you have you have better things better things to do with your time.

[9:14] Alex Smolowe: That's what we love to do too on this podcast is introduce people to things that they might not otherwise get to see.

[9:21] Alex Smolowe: Um this one, it came out in 2015. It stars Jason Siegel and Jesse Eisenberg.

[9:26] Brandon Routh: Um and it's based on uh a book that was a nonfiction book um based on the same scenario.

[9:34] Alex Smolowe: A guy working for Rolling Stone basically recorded three days of traveling with David Foster Wallace, the guy, the author of Infinite Jest.

[9:41] Brandon Routh: Okay.

[9:42] Alex Smolowe: Um who later uh committed suicide.

[9:45] Brandon Routh: So you know, he he's like a big cult icon kind of author.

[9:49] Alex Smolowe: Uh if you've never read him, you know, Infinite Jest is like a thousand plus pages long. It's it's big and it's dense, so he's kind of a um become become an icon in the literary world.

[9:58] Brandon Routh: And what I love about this movie, so the movie just follows uh he's he's making the last stop on his book tour for Infinite Jest, and it just follows their conversations from he shows up at his house, uh, and it all takes place in Bloomington, Illinois.

[10:14] Nik Walker: Oh, okay.

[10:15] Alex Smolowe: They they go into uh Minneapolis, St. Paul, but it's it's very, very interviewer, uh whose name is also David, uh, is an aspiring author, fiction author himself and has sort of put Dave Wallace up on this pedestal of what he's like what he wants to become, right?

[10:37] Nik Walker: Applauded in all the things, getting interviewed, you know, the the darling of the literary world.

[10:43] Alex Smolowe: Um and and Dave Wallace, uh, on the other hand, has hit this point where he's you know, it's what he's been aiming for, but now that he's here, he realizes it just it's not quite meshing with with all of his anxieties and all of his things, and he's really not sure how to handle it.

[10:58] Nik Walker: So you kind of put these two really anxious uh people who don't know what they want or how to handle where they're at together and watch them play off of each other in in interview format, basically, just asking each other questions and finding out about each other's lives.

[11:13] Alex Smolowe: How do you learn like to do this stuff?

[11:15] Brandon Routh: Do what the interviewing does one go to interviewing school.

[11:19] Alex Smolowe: Uh yes, I went to eight years of interviewing school.

[11:22] Brandon Routh: So you got a master's.

[11:23] Alex Smolowe: I did. Um, no, I'm uh I'm a writer.

[11:28] Brandon Routh: Ah, okay.

[11:29] Alex Smolowe: Yeah. Great. I mean, I write fiction as well.

[11:33] Brandon Routh: I just had a novel published, actually.

[11:36] Nik Walker: Great.

[11:37] Brandon Routh: You're like a nervous guy, huh?

[11:39] Nik Walker: No, no, no.

[11:40] Brandon Routh: No, I'm okay. How are you?

[11:41] Nik Walker: I because I'm terrified.

[11:42] Brandon Routh: Are you?

[11:43] Nik Walker: Yes, you're not alone in this.

[11:44] Brandon Routh: Okay. It debuted at the Sundance Film Festival. Uh it got really well reviewed. The two performances. Jason Siegel plays David Foster Wallace, it's just a it's it's an unbelievable performance. And it all takes place, you know, it it's it really is like Dave you you picture in your head someone who's very successful who's just sold a million copies of a book and is you know, this big deal, and he he lives in this little ranch, you know, in the snow outside outside Illinois, and and the whole movie goes through, you know, how these how these rural towns have, you know, it's all just McDonald's and traffic lights and factories, and and it's kind of dra it's like almost beautifully drab. Uh and the film moves these characters through these diners and all these spaces on and gives you a sense, you know, it's everything is very, very normal, which plays into the film a lot because it's two people who have elevated their craft in into a magical realm, trying to reckon with the fact that it really is reality is very different.

[12:42] Brandon Routh: I don't mind appearing in Rolling Stone. I don't want to appear in Rolling Stone as somebody who wants to be in Rolling Stone. To have written a book about how seductive images, how easy it is to get seduced off of any meaningful path because of the way our culture is now. What if I become a parody of that very thing?

[13:01] Nik Walker: Yeah, tomorrow you drive away and you get on a plane, and this whole thing is over. I go back to knowing like 20 people. I'm gonna have to decompress from all this attention because it's like getting it's like getting the heroin injected into your cortex. And where I'm gonna need real balls is to sit and go through that and try to remind myself of what the reality is that I'm 34 years old and I'm alone in a room with a with a piece of paper. So it's watching them, you know, bring their elevated senses through just you know, boring, boring Illinois.

[13:41] Brandon Routh: Um so yeah, the the end of the tour, if you haven't, if you haven't seen it, please.

[13:47] Nik Walker: Let me ask you this. So just just out of curiosity, so how does I mean you say boring Illinois, which by the way, I don't believe Illinois's boring.

[13:54] Brandon Routh: Well, not boring, not boring, but normal.

[13:56] Nik Walker: Just normal.

[13:57] Brandon Routh: Normal, normal American. Because I mean, I guess and it's my own personal experience too, you know, of of you, and we talked about it with Pete Chapman on a previous podcast, where you you elevate something that you love that you want to do, uh the people who are very successful at it, the people who have done it, you think that they exist on this other plane.

[14:17] Nik Walker: Yeah, yeah.

[14:18] Brandon Routh: Right. You think that they think differently, they act differently, they have different relationships and different worries. You know, not that they're immortal or that they don't have problems, but that that there are things that they're doing that you could never understand. And so and including where you live. You know, you picture movie stars, you think they all live in giant mansions and and famous authors and musicians and all these things. And and so to see the the Midwest is like it's a it's as as normal American as you can get these plays. He teaches at the community college down the street, and they stop at McDonald's to eat, and then they stop at a 24-hour diner to eat, and then they're they're riding economy, you know, they fly economy to the book tour at this small little bookshop and they they're in a a little Honda Civic rental car.

Um, you know, they they have a driver who drives them around, but she's this kind of weird person in her little Volvo. Like, um it's it's completely unluxurious. Uh and both of them I think are reckoning with with that fact. Um and it's it's it's soothing in a way. It's not a criticism of anything, it's it's like identifying the humanity in it all. Like it it's it's like lessons on how to change your perspective so that you're not putting the wrong things up.

[15:30] Brandon Routh: It you know, it almost reminds me just listening to you describe that I cause I you know, in my in my search for infinite wisdom uh and jest, I started reading uh the Tao Ta Qing recently, um which I like I've never read by but the by Lao Tzu, it's this like uh uh you know Chinese philosophy, eighty-one chapters, and so much of it is about perception versus reality, and the idea of just letting go of things. And it's similar to what we talked about before, the idea of like, you know, we all strive for these ideas of success, and that if we can just let go of desire and just be content. In fact, chapter uh 44, which I had to I had to write down because it really just hit me so well, is just be content with what you have, rejoice in the way things are.

When you realize that nothing is lacking, the whole world belongs to you. And it's just like and I that's I'm that's what I'm hearing. Just the idea of like, yeah, yeah, when you're when you find what if you can find that contentment in you know, then uh you're free, you know, and what a what a beautiful concept.

[16:32] Nik Walker: I love that.

[16:33] Brandon Routh: It is, it is. And and the film, you know, it's it's powerful. I've I've seen it, I I almost watch it as comfort food. Uh, and I'll it's a kind of movie um like doubt we've talked about recently where I'll pick scenes out that I know that I like just because that the performance is so good, yeah. I'll just watch it to to think about it. I love that to experience it and then just let it wash over me. Um, this movie has so so many of those of those moments. Uh, and it's kind of all overshadowed by the fact that Dave Wallace, you know, committed suicide years later. You you realize he never came to terms with it. All the stuff he's struggling with, all the stuff, you know, he never actually figured it out. And I think it's it's kind of a a shadow over it, uh, but it makes everything it adds another another level to to what's going on.

[17:15] Nik Walker: So part of my reticence about this whole thing is that it won't make very good copy for you. I'm also aware that some addictions are sexier than others. My primary addiction my entire life has been to television. I told you that. Now television addiction is of far less interest to your readers than something like heroin that confirms the mythos of the writer.

[17:39] Brandon Routh: Yeah, a myth. I do not believe it.

[17:40] Nik Walker: Right.

[17:41] Brandon Routh: No, I know you don't believe that. I'm also aware that one of the things that's swirling around here is you want to have the best fucking article you can have. So you know what? Why don't you write whatever the fuck you want? I am telling you that this was not a lost weekend sort of thing, nor was it some lurid romantic writer's alcoholic sort of thing. What it was was a 28-year-old person who had really exhausted a couple other ways to live. Like really taking them to their conclusion. Which for me was a pink room with a drain in the center of the floor, which is where they put me for an entire day when they thought that I was gonna kill myself. And when that happens to you, you become tremendously just unprecedentedly willing to examine some other alternatives for how to live.

[18:25] Nik Walker: I gotta watch that.

[18:26] Brandon Routh: I've never seen it.

[18:26] Nik Walker: Yeah.

[18:27] Brandon Routh: You guys, yeah, you gotta watch it.

[18:30] Nik Walker: There it is.

[18:31] Brandon Routh: The end of the tour.

[18:32] Nik Walker: There it is. What a what a what a beautiful film.

[18:34] Brandon Routh: Alright, alright, alright. The end of the tour. Uh alright, so I'll I'll jump in there. I'll throw this, I'll throw this one down. This one I think you're both I honestly think you both will get this one. Alex, I think you'll be surprised at this one. But let's see. Let's see what happens.

[18:46] Brandon Routh: Uh we open on what can only be described as like an idyllic Midwestern morning on like a long road cutting through farmland. Uh this this like very 80s synth trumpet music playing, kind of giving you hope, inspiring you to reach higher, be better.

[19:12] Brandon Routh: Uh white title cards on on uh almost like a blue-looking screen. Like it's so early in the morning, it just looks blue. And this car pulls over the pulls over the the the pulls onto the road, driving. There's a man in it driving. Uh he's trying from a mug. You see, even before the the uh the super comes on that tells you this is 1951, you see that the car is very much from the 50s. Like you can tell that you are in a 50s world. Um this movie was made in the 80s, so that is no surprise that is in the 50s.

[19:45] Brandon Routh: Um he is passing through just I mean, truly like almost like a it might as well be like a commercial for farmers. Um you just see so many farmers doing so many farming things, and uh and and you also see uh he passes a barn where some boys are playing basketball, and uh that's a little foreshadowing for you, and he pulls up to you get it. You know, come on guys.

[20:10] Nik Walker: Oh no, no, no, I mean if you toss it out, toss it out. What do you think it is?

[20:16] Brandon Routh: Hoosier's there you go!

[20:18] Nik Walker: There you go. Boom. See?

[20:20] Brandon Routh: And he said he's like, yo, movies. I I don't watch them.

[20:23] Nik Walker: Look, mister, these boys got a routine they're used to. You uh throw a new coach with new fangled ideas. I don't might get them all confused.

[20:33] Brandon Routh: It will. He's into it real slowly. Hell, our first game's less than two weeks away.

[20:38] Nik Walker: Well, first of all, let's be real friendly here. Okay, my name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over.

[20:45] Brandon Routh: This guy's got it. Who's your I didn't know it?

[20:48] Nik Walker: Bro, I never know it.

[20:49] Brandon Routh: Yeah, you never know it.

[20:50] Nik Walker: He he actually he truly has never guessed correctly.

[20:53] Brandon Routh: I d I I'm a terrible guesser.

[20:55] Nik Walker: Okay. Overwhelmed.

[20:56] Brandon Routh: Dude, it's all right. So, y'all, so here's the thing. So there was a couple movies that I had in mind when I tried to I was like, okay. Obviously, I could go to the Cohen Brothers because those that's first of all, they're my heart. I thought that was. And yep, and I love them, and I just I was like, dude. And then I was also the other one that I wanted to do but couldn't find was Dropped Ed Gorgeous.

[21:15] Nik Walker: Oh.

[21:16] Brandon Routh: Um, with you know Cr Kirsti Alley and Crick and Kirsten Dunst. And um it just is if you haven't seen Drop Dead Gorgeous, it's hysterical. Uh, and it very much takes place in the Midwest. Um, and it's a satire of so many things. Uh, but Husers, it was just like, okay, I haven't seen this in so long, and I gotta, I just want to watch it and see, see how I felt about it.

[21:39] Brandon Routh: And my biggest thing was like, yo, I everyone, you know, ever I remember this. This is the movie you cry about. This is this is this is the tear, this is the tearjerker. And I was like, I am not gonna effing cry on this film. Y'all, the way Dennis Hopper had me balling. I was done. I was done, I didn't even know. It's because you know, it the the what what you realize very quickly watching this movie is it has the movie has almost nothing to do with basketball.

[22:09] Nik Walker: Um it is like it's this as a good sports film should be.

[22:12] Brandon Routh: As a good exactly. I mean, and that's as the best sports. I truly think that. As the best sports films are, it really has nothing to do with the sport. Um, you come into this town, and you know, Barbara Hershey is playing this, you know, fellow teacher uh who has you find out she has a son who is like the star athlete but doesn't want to play anymore uh for some reason.

[22:34] Brandon Routh: And uh Gene Hackman is the man who was driving in earlier, and he's the new coach. He uh last coached in Ithaca, New York, and then he spent 10 years in the Navy and now he's here. Um and the town automatically like Barbara Hershey's the first person she meets, and she's reading them the riot act. The town does not want anything to do with him. Like they are they are very much a a town about this is our town, this is how we play, um, this is how we operate, and and you can't change that.

[23:03] Brandon Routh: And, you know, he automatically, like, the first practice he shows up to, the guy who was coaching before, who he had met the night before, um, at like kind of like a you know, ad hoc town meeting in uh in a in the guy's barber shop, um, is like, you know, trying to be the assistant coach of them is like, yeah, this is how we do it. You know, we we we do uh we do zone defense and uh you know and and and Gene Hackman's like, yeah, you're actually uh you're not gonna coach. You're you gotta get you gotta get out of here and toss about and then like the guy brings back the entire town with him to like start just start like you're gonna like kill Gene Hackman. And it it really is about the movie, you know, as so many of these kind of classic I I also think this is an eighties movie thing too.

Uh you know, just about change and kind of the I think I think especially in the eighties, you know, you look at the heroes of the eighties, John McLean, uh, Indiana Jones, um, it was very much the era of the American Renegade. Uh that's that's what we loved. We loved these stories about the people who came in and shook things up with the establishment, and and that's very much what this movie is. Um, you know, would would would go would would turn over in the nineties to Dangerous Minds and Sister Act, but we don't have to get there yet. Uh but it's it's that same concept, right? Of of, you know, there's two stories, a hero goes on a journey and a man walks or a person comes into town, and that's very much what this story is, is uh is is Gene Hackman coming into town and shaking this town up.

[24:30] Brandon Routh: And um why I say Dennis Hopper is the heart and soul of this movie, um, is uh it truly is like a performance that like I was not like when it fur you know, he comes, he's he is the father of one of the players on the team and he is a drunk and uh he's you know the first time you meet him he's like you know going up to the to the town uh to the school principal and like trying to you know bum some money off him at a local diner and his son is like truly embarrassed by him, but he shows a propensity for a knowledge of this game. And Gene Hackman, you know, when he when when when uh his assistant coach gets sick, he's like, you know, let's bring let's bring Dennis Hopper and let's bring uh I think Shooter is his name.

Let's bring Shooter in and have him be the assistant coach and does things to like it's truly set him up. It's much more of a rehabilitation where he's like, you know, he he purposely gets thrown out of games to to set up and and have have Shooter have to step up. And I gotta tell you guys, like, you know, because you're watching Dennis first of all, it's Dennis Hopper. So like already my mind's going to speed, it's going to apocalypse now. I'm like, you are freaking nuts, man. Like, I don't know what to do with you. Um, and he's playing this drunk, and it it might as well be out of like it's a wonderful life. Like he is like this, like just the sloppy 1950s crazy man. But it's this the scene that got me is ca is when he first shows up to his first game as an assistant coach, because the deal that Gene Hackman makes with makes with him is you gotta clean up.

You c you gotta be sober. And he shows up and he's in a suit that's like two size too big, and he's got his hair slicked back, and he is so uncomfortable and so scared and so vulnerable. And you're just watching this man like, God damn it, Dennis Hopper. Like, you're really good. Like he's just he's and he just wants to be there and he just wants to do a good job, and you're just like, he's just got me right in the fields, y'all. I was like, yo, this is some real ish right here.

[26:28] Brandon Routh: Um and and he go ahead, go ahead.

[26:31] Alex Smolowe: Well, I've I've never seen this, but have you seen it?

[26:34] Brandon Routh: It seem it seems like you've you have seen it.

[26:36] Alex Smolowe: Yes, it's it's it's been a while since I've seen it.

[26:38] Brandon Routh: But yes. So is this does this seem pretty pretty Midwest to you?

[26:43] Alex Smolowe: Yes. It it's it's you know, because you don't have when you don't have the big city and you don't have the thrills that are easily accessible uh of a big city, hometown pride and school pride and high school sports become everything in in many ways.

[27:01] Brandon Routh: Yeah, and that's and that's what you get. That's I think the the circling it back, because I'll I'll ramble on forever. But that that's that's the biggest sense you get from this movie is it's not it's about a town having to trust that you know they can kind of take a step out on faith and see what happens and try a new way. Try try a way that's not tradition. Because because you you get the sense there's nothing going on in this town except for the basketball team's victories.

[27:27] Alex Smolowe: That's what they sound very Friday night lights.

[27:29] Brandon Routh: Oh, oh, dude, absolutely, absolutely. It it has that written all over it. Very much that. And so you're pinning, so like they have this winning thing, and it's like you get Jimmy on the team, you do zone defense, that's how you win, that's it, that's all we're doing. And Gene Hackman is coming in there, and his whole thing is like he wants to break him down to build him up. So he's completely messing with the system, and the town freaks out about it. But it really, it really you you do have an understanding that like they just want to they just want to they want to see this victory because that's all they have. Like, like it, I mean, not and not putting it down in a way, but uh the but yeah, they're they're they're just they're living their lives and the games, everyone comes to the games, the entire town is invested in the games.

[28:11] Brandon Routh: And you also, I think, I think the other thing that I love is almost like to a propaganda extent, they film Indiana uh so beautifully. I mean, there's so many sunsh sunset shots. I mean, there's so just like really capturing the feels and the greens and the and the and the pinks and the oranges, like you really just get a sense of this kind of like idyllic land. It's not again, is it is it about the Midwest? No, but I I think that it really takes a great snapshot of. And Angelo, uh, I think his name is Pizzo, who who wrote the script. Uh uh, correct me if I'm wrong, Twitter or Instagram. Uh he is he actually is from Indiana. He he had a you know very similar experience to this growing up, so this is very personal to him. Um and and I love that you could you could feel that in the movie. So yeah, I mean not not a perfect movie by any means, but surely a movie that uh loves the Midwest and and reflects that.

[29:07] Brandon Routh: So yeah, who's yours is mine, y'all. We're way past big speech time. Um I want to thank you for the last few months. It's been very special for me.

[29:30] Alex Smolowe: Anyone have anything they want to say?

[29:32] Brandon Routh: Yeah.

[29:34] Alex Smolowe: Let's win this and for all the small schools who never had a chance to get here.

[29:43] Brandon Routh: I want to win for my dad.

[29:46] Alex Smolowe: Let's win for coach who got us here.

[29:50] Brandon Routh: Thank you.

[29:51] Alex Smolowe: Nice.

[29:52] Brandon Routh: That's a great choice.

[29:53] Alex Smolowe: And and was uh when I was going through thinking about possible choices, it was it was on my list, which is maybe why it was easier for me to guess it because I had recently uh um been thinking about it.

[30:06] Brandon Routh: Yeah, all right. You now it's it's your turn, buddy.

[30:09] Alex Smolowe: All right. I'll give it give it a go for my first uh my first time at this.

[30:15] Brandon Routh: Uh and um Nick or Alex, whoever wants to to chime in here on this uh opening theme song because it's an important part of the movie.

[30:25] Alex Smolowe: And if you know the movie just from the song, the intro song, then we might be friends for life.

[30:32] Brandon Routh: If not, we can still be friends.

[30:34] Alex Smolowe: Um love it.

[30:35] Brandon Routh: I love it.

[30:36] Brandon Routh: So uh it uh we open on black and and this song is the intro to the to the movie.

[30:45] Brandon Routh: We're having a heat wave, a tropical heat wave.

[30:50] Brandon Routh: Started in the wrong key, and now it's too low.

[30:54] Brandon Routh: Temperatures rising surprising.

[30:58] Brandon Routh: She certainly can.

[31:01] Brandon Routh: And so that lovely song plays as we see shots of uh uh a small midwestern town in the snow, a town square, cars parked at local stores.

[31:14] Brandon Routh: After several of those shots, we end up on a little uh residential street where a man is knocking on a door, snow covered house, asking for Mr. Gustavson, Mr. John Gustavson.

[31:30] Alex Smolowe: Yep.

[31:33] Brandon Routh: Oh, good for you.

[31:35] Alex Smolowe: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

[31:37] Brandon Routh: I knew it.

[31:38] Alex Smolowe: That's that's a great one.

[31:39] Brandon Routh: Alex, do you know?

[31:40] Alex Smolowe: Come on.

[31:41] Brandon Routh: No, of course I don't.

[31:42] Alex Smolowe: Are you serious?

[31:43] Brandon Routh: Bro, I'm telling you, I'm I'm bad at this.

[31:46] Alex Smolowe: Alex.

[31:46] Brandon Routh: Alex.

[31:47] Alex Smolowe: What?

[31:47] Brandon Routh: This is a movie is in the National Film Registry.

[31:50] Brandon Routh: This is a brilliant film.

[31:53] Alex Smolowe: Oh my god.

[31:54] Brandon Routh: Oh it's it's it's Fargo, man.

[31:56] Alex Smolowe: Oh, close.

[31:58] Brandon Routh: It's not not Fargo.

[32:01] Alex Smolowe: Gustafson.

[32:02] Brandon Routh: Well, there might be another John Gustafson in uh in Minnesota.

[32:07] Brandon Routh: This does in fact take place in Minnesota, but it's Wabashaw, Minnesota.

[32:14] Alex Smolowe: So I'll keep going.

[32:15] Brandon Routh: Just a little bit.

[32:16] Brandon Routh: Keep going, keep going.

[32:19] Brandon Routh: Uh, and uh so use pretending this isn't happening, Mr.

[32:25] Brandon Routh: Gostar.

[32:26] Brandon Routh: We go up to the second floor of the house, and we see an older gentleman sneaking out of a second floor window onto the roof and sneaking away from the man knocking at his house, goes over to his maid.

[32:41] Alex Smolowe: Oh now he's got his yes, yes, I I do believe I do.

[32:47] Brandon Routh: Uh uh is it is it about some old men who are grumpy?

[32:55] Alex Smolowe: Oh, that makes me so happy.

[32:57] Brandon Routh: I love it.

[32:59] Brandon Routh: I love it.

[33:00] Brandon Routh: It is uh grumpy old men starring Jack Lemon and Walter Mathow.

[33:06] Alex Smolowe: You're still using that beat-up old piece of firewood.

[33:10] Brandon Routh: The Green Hornets caught more fish than you've lied about, Gustafson.

[33:14] Alex Smolowe: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[33:16] Brandon Routh: You share?

[33:21] Alex Smolowe: Pretty damn fast.

[33:23] Brandon Routh: Yeah.

[33:24] Alex Smolowe: Did you hear about Eddie Hicks?

[33:27] Brandon Routh: Hypothermia's a bitch.

[33:28] Alex Smolowe: Oh man.

[33:33] Brandon Routh: It's been a hot minute since I have seen this movie.

[33:36] Alex Smolowe: These movies it kind of come as a pair.

[33:38] Brandon Routh: You also get extra points for singing the theme song.

[33:40] Alex Smolowe: Thank you.

[33:41] Brandon Routh: Well, that was Corey's suggestion.

[33:42] Brandon Routh: She said, You gotta sing it.

[33:43] Brandon Routh: Oh because it's such an iconic part of every time I hear that song, I think of this movie, and it makes me happy.

[33:49] Alex Smolowe: Oh my god.

[33:50] Brandon Routh: So okay, so talk to me about talking about your experience with this movie.

[33:53] Brandon Routh: Like what yeah, it's uh, you know, watching it. What what do you love about this?

[33:56] Alex Smolowe: What is this thing?

[33:56] Brandon Routh: I won't know.

[33:57] Alex Smolowe: It's Fargo.

[33:58] Brandon Routh: Fargo Fargo was on the Fargo was on my list also.

[34:02] Brandon Routh: Uh, but this is uh Grumpy Old Man just has like a part of my heart that a lot of other movies don't don't have.

[34:11] Brandon Routh: Um and you know, it it's it's first of all, it's the comedy. It's how fantastic Jack Lemon and Walter Mathau are, and they're their comedy genius.

[34:34] Brandon Routh: Um, it's having watched it again last night to review, uh, it's the Midwestern thing. I love winter movies, love Christmas movies, and while this isn't about Christmas, it's at Christmas time. Um, it's a small town, and it's the comedy, and it's kind of raunchy in a way, but like in a very, um, safe way. Uh, yeah. So I could appreciate it because I was very, you know, kind of very, uh, grew up in a very prude household. So looking back, it's like I don't—Courtney said, "Your mom let you watch this movie?" Um, but I was a teenager by that point. So, um, but it's the comedy. I mean, it's how good Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau are, and their friendship and their sarcastic, uh, humor and the practical jokes that they play on each other, and no matter how much they dislike each other sometimes because of what happens in the movie, why they had this fight, they still deep down love each other and have an appreciation for each other.

They live next door to each other, but they're always playing practical jokes. Um, and then you have Daryl Hannah and Kevin Pollak, uh, Buck Henry are all, you know, in this movie. I don't know. And the music, the music I'm seeing now, it's looking—it's composed by Alan Silvestri. Makes sense. Um, but there are really great music cues that are just really well done.

[36:19] Brandon Routh: Well, it was very nice meeting you, John Gustave. And now that we know one another, don't be a stranger, neighbor. Oh, and John King's Rook to Queen's Bishop 3. This makes me happy. And Burgess Meredith, sorry, and also Burgess Meredith, which I don't know him much from. I know he's, uh, obviously did a lot of work in his career, but it's amazing too because these are two guys who have such—I mean, Jack Lemmon has had some of the most famous pairings in the world of cinema. I mean, you know, Tony Curtis and him in Some Like It Hot. Um, and then with Walter Matthau in The Odd Couple. They've done six movies together. Incredible. And I love too much because I've worked—my friend Sam Huntington, uh, we've only done two movies together, but if I could do every movie with him, uh, I would do that because we're not Mathau and Lemmon, but we have our own version of like this buddy thing, and I always look forward to the next opportunity to work with him.

It reminds me of their comedy duo. It definitely is a movie that brings joy to the heart. It is definitely—and it's very mired in Americana, right? It feels very—the relationships feel real. Like, it's not prudish, it's not anything like that, but like it feels—it appeals, I think, this movie in this particular genre, like it'll appeal to like the widest possible audience, right? Like we're gonna think it's funny, but also our parents think it's funny. You can live anywhere and think it's funny because it's relatable. The environment's relatable.

[38:06] Brandon Routh: Yeah. I don't know. And I will say, you know, I haven't seen many movies that I think have tried to in some way enact upon the formula that Grumpy Old Men or Grumpy Old Men set down. Um, you know, where you take actors who have had long careers, they're a little, you know, they're in their older years, and you put them in comedy and see what happens. And not too many movies have been able to pull this off, um, in the same way. And I think that is a testament to both Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon, um, just as consummate performers. I think, um, one of the movies that we reviewed—oh shoot, well, I can say this because at this point this episode will come out. But one of the movies that we talked about was, uh, Glengarry Glen Ross.

And Jack Lemmon in that movie is—I mean, you truly see that this is a man who just knows how to act. I mean, he's insane. Um, and you really can't pull off a comedy like this without full commitment and just—and that friendship that you're talking about, which I think is so apparent. So it works better. I mean, they really have tried to replicate the formula like modern day with, you know, Robert De Niro's done a bunch of them, um, Morgan Freeman, like Jack Nicholson. They keep pairing big actors from, you know, the 70s, 80s, 90s, uh, powerhouses who are just trying to find, you know, light fare and make some money and whatever, you know. And the movies end up good, but none of them come out the other end iconic.

[39:35] Brandon Routh: Yeah. None of them come out the other end with actual weight. You gotta establish a relationship between the actors that is so important. And I, you know, I don't know that you can define—do a mathematical equation that can replicate that. It's just an energy, and that's also—I mean, it's obviously the script, it's the director, the music, all of these things are important in making a great film. But, you know, we watch this movie and he's that guy from start to finish. He's not taking a break every scene. He’s in it. He’s not—he's played a character like this so many times, um, but he's not phoning it in, and they're committed to their each other's relationship.

[40:22] Brandon Routh: Yeah, Jacob says that Michael and Melanie are, uh, gonna get back together again. Well, Jacob doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Melanie is getting a divorce. Yeah, well, uh, I've got a couple of things I want to tell you. I wanted to tell you. When you spit it out, I haven't got all night. I don't shout at you. I'm not shouting. So thank you. And all you can do is shout at me. To thank me. All right. I take it back. I don't thank you. Oh, yeah. Love it. Great grandma. Good choice. Yeah. Jim, I really like the choices we made this. This has been a nice one. They're all good. They're all different. They're all different. And not—uh, makes me miss snow. Yeah, I do miss snow. Except I miss the snow.

But see, that's—and that's the thing that I'm a little worried about coming out y'all's way is like seasons. You know, I do like seasons and, uh, well, I don't miss New York City snow. But I miss the countryside snow. I grew up out, uh, in Pennsylvania, well outside Philadelphia, so I, you know, it's not quite Midwest, but it's closer than Manhattan.

[41:39] Brandon Routh: Yeah, and you got some snow. But yeah, coming—coming to LA is, uh, you get used to it. You know, everyone says it's a net positive, the weather, uh, being consistent and nice all the time. But, um, I don't know. Here's the thing about California that's wonderful about California, is that you can go travel two hours, and you can be in a different aspect of California. You can get it all. The snow, the beach, the desert. So I did that. Yeah, I had a friend when he turned 30. Uh, what he wanted to do was in a single day, he wanted to skydive, ski, surf, and run a half marathon. Person is insane. That's so—I offered to drive him. We got up at like four in the morning and I drove him out and he ran a half marathon on this hiking trail, and then we went and we did skydiving, and then I drove him to a mountain and he skied, and then we drove to the beach and he went surfing all in one day. It was pretty—I don't like—that's too many choices. That's—that's too. I slept in—I slept in the car for most of it. Good. Yeah. I slept—yeah.

[42:38] Brandon Routh: But I'm excited. I am excited. I will say, having like—having, you know, being able to just be around just, first of all, water and beaches and, uh, it's amazing. Yeah, you know, then I'll be out there and, you know, let's see you guys. But, uh, no, this is—this has been absolutely wonderful. And Brandon, thank you again just so much, uh, for coming on here. Is there anything you wanna, you know, you wanna plug, you want to say, you want to shout out any last words you have for the listeners in? Uh, you know, everybody, it's, uh, every—every day may be challenging now. We're still in a quarantine pandemic before the election, and I'm just doing my best to remind, uh, myself to take it day by day.

Um, and to check a couple of things off my list, um, because, you know, at least for me, I'm not currently working. Uh, there are some shows and projects that are starting to slowly get together, but each day kind of blends into the next, and it feels like I'm not, uh, making any progress, but, um, I'm just taking it one day at a time and, um, working to be good to the people that are in my same household and, um, and take it easy.

[43:53] Brandon Routh: Yeah, don't put pressure on yourself. All you can do.

[43:55] Nik Walker: Well, if you ever want to come back and do this again, just let us know.

[43:58] Brandon Routh: Absolutely, I’d love to have you.

[43:59] Nik Walker: It's amazing. Amazing. Well, guys, listen, uh, you know, as always—oh, and vote!

[44:00] Brandon Routh: Oh yeah, that—and vote. That's, yeah, vote. That's what I was gonna say too. Please, please vote, guys. This is—that was the one word I was hoping to cold open, but it's—I could draw out of you, but you know what it is though? I will say because you first—you gotta get the—I just had to get that out, and then I was gonna say vote. It's like, ah, vote! But also vote, scream and then vote. Scream again. Scream again. Uh, but no, we taking it one day at a time I think is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful sentiment, um, and one that we should all do because, you know, that's literally all we got. And, and also because honestly, I think that if there was any way to appreciate any sort of silver linings that we might find in this time, it is from being present in the moment and just appreciating what we got.

Just being here and, uh, as crazy as that is, hard as that is, it really is the thing that will help us. Life is kind of always going up and down and back and forth. And if you're always just trying to get to the up, the up is always going to come down a little bit. It's the natural progression of the universe, I think. And so you do have to be able to appreciate the ups when it's up and when it's down, find something to appreciate. But, but, you know, uh, where's the—why? Where are the wise words? They've got—I’ve been lost into the vacuum of quarantine, but it is—it's me basically just saying you're right. Do your best to appreciate the experience. That's it of today. That's all we got. That's all we got.

[45:39] Nik Walker: Dude, you're the best. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, uh, stay tuned and we'll, uh, we'll see you, uh, when you—you know, next week or something. We'll see you.

[45:46] Brandon Routh: Bye.

[45:47] Nik Walker: Bye everybody. Little Justice.

[45:52] Brandon Routh: Little Justice. Little Justice.

[45:58] Nik Walker: Fuck yeah.