This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 75 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:05] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swim in upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:11] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers, Rory O'Malley here. Thank you so much for listening to Living the Dream.

[0:17] Rory O'Malley: If you enjoy the podcast, tell your friends and write a review and uh rate us on iTunes. That would be so helpful so we can keep having these conversations with people in the business about the ups and downs.

[0:31] Rory O'Malley: I am also so grateful to all of you who belted the vote this past November 6th. You know, I was screaming through the rooftops for everyone to vote in the theater community, and everyone really showed up in full force to inspire the rest of the theater community all across the country.

[0:49] Rory O'Malley: And it was just an amazing experience getting to be a part of that. So thank you for everyone who participated. Thank you to everyone who voted this year and made it record-breaking turnout. It was amazing. It was amazing.

[1:06] Rory O'Malley: And I am so grateful to the theater community that is always so active and knows its responsibility, its civic responsibility. So we're gonna keep that going. Keep getting people motivated to go to the polls for 2020 and beyond.

[1:22] Rory O'Malley: My guest today was someone who was one of the first people who said yes to helping out with Belt the Vote. His name's George Salazar. He is in BE MORE CHILL, the phenomenon that has gone off Broadway, just closed, and will be opening on Broadway this spring.

[1:38] Rory O'Malley: He is an amazing actor, a wonderful singer, and even more importantly, a beautiful human being. You will understand that after this conversation with him. He's just very genuine, has clearly worked very hard to get to where he is in this business and is having his moment.

[1:57] Rory O'Malley: And a lot of people with this production of BE MORE CHILL are having a moment, including its writer Joe Iconis, who has been someone in the industry that everyone has known, but this is a really big breakthrough. That's gonna be a huge commercial success for him and for this entire cast.

[2:15] Rory O'Malley: So I was so lucky to get to see a performance of this off Broadway last month, and George is just phenomenal, and this part is so good. There's such a huge fan base of young people online who brought this piece from being an album, this musical to Broadway. The story of it alone could be a whole other musical.

[2:41] Rory O'Malley: So I'm very excited for George. I'm excited for the cast and everyone involved. And I loved getting a chance to sit down and speak with him. So here's my conversation with the lovely George Salazar.

[2:53] Rory O'Malley: So welcome to Living the Dream, George.

[2:55] George Salazar: Thanks for having me.

[2:56] Rory O'Malley: We're just launching right into it. I know you're a busy, busy man. So this is the only thing you have to do today. What has life been like lately?

[3:04] George Salazar: It's been crazy, right?

[3:06] Rory O'Malley: Well, I'm gonna interrupt you because I love that it was like we're gonna go right, we're gonna dive right in because I know you're really busy. This is all you have to do today.

[3:15] George Salazar: Well, I know that you are, and so that was the plan. I was like, I'm just gonna go right into it with them. But then you're like, you only have this today. Okay, great. But you know what? Yeah, you need to really take your days off and enjoy them. And so I don't want to, you know, 100% have to be doing it.

[3:30] George Salazar: Thank you for having me, first and foremost.

[3:33] Rory O'Malley: Of course. I was so lucky to get to see you in BE MORE CHILL off Broadway. And it was such an amazing performance you gave and such a moment in time. And to be surrounded by all of these excited young people about a new piece of theater was so thrilling to me.

[3:56] Rory O'Malley: But I'm sure while you're in it, it can also be exhausting. So I'm sure you're coming down from a really extreme high.

[4:04] George Salazar: Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, this is a thing that I thought about and dreamed and wished for for three years, and that we even got to do the show off Broadway was more than I ever thought possible. So while it was exhausting, I was just so happy to be doing it, you know.

[4:27] George Salazar: And thrilled that people discovered the musical, fell in love with it, and were vocal about their love of the show, and that that's what brought it back. Like that's what the people like resurrected this thing.

[4:59] Rory O'Malley: Right. Can you walk us through that a little bit? I know you've told this story quite a bit, but guess what? You're gonna be telling this story for the rest of your life.

[5:07] George Salazar: Yeah, I love telling the story. It's such, it's like, it's truly a miracle story. So you know, I met Joe Iconis in 2011. At the time I was doing Godspell on Broadway, the only show I've ever done on Broadway, and Jen Tepper worked for the lead producer and invited Joe to a preview, and afterwards we all wound up at a bar in Midtown, and she said, George, this is Joe, Joe, this is George. You guys need to make things together.

[5:43] George Salazar: And she's that very much that type of person. People connector, yeah. Yeah, she's like the people, she's the person connector. She has a knack for it. So you know, we met and we did little things here and there. Like I did his Christmas show one year, which is an epic show. His Christmas show at 54 Below is notoriously huge, amazing, and people are very big fans of that show.

[6:12] George Salazar: Yeah, yeah. We get a lot of repeat offenders over the years. It's like a crazy, it's like a meth-fueled Muppets Christmas show. It's like if you, yeah, my brother-in-law flies in from Chicago to see it every year.

[6:30] Rory O'Malley: Oh, I love that.

[6:32] George Salazar: Yeah. So you know, we made things here and there like on a scale like that. And then Joe was working on BE MORE CHILL, and I had gone in for the Black Suits, another musical of his, and didn't get it. And he was like super, super nice about, you know, you gave such a great audition, it was an amazing audition, it's just not the right fit. Gave me that spiel.

[6:47] George Salazar: And he was like, But I'm working on this other musical called BE MORE CHILL, and I think you're perfect for it. And so he was like, you know, keep your ears peeled. And so we ended up doing a workshop of it. I fell so madly in love with the show and with this character because for the first time in my career, like I wasn't just being like a clown.

[7:16] George Salazar: Right. You know, like there was a moment of vulnerability written into this character. And I was so taken by Joe's music and Joe Trace's book and how Michael Mell, it almost feels like he was taken from my own experiences as a high schooler. Like I just saw so much of myself in this kid.

[7:43] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[7:44] George Salazar: And so anyway, so I moved to LA fast forward 2014. I moved to LA, I'm fed up with New York, done. I'm so done.

[7:53] Rory O'Malley: That's what LA is for is when you're fed up with New York and you're putting it on notice.

[7:59] George Salazar: Exactly. So I was like, fuck you, New York, I'm out of here. So I left and I moved into LA and I bought a car and I sold all my belongings in New York.

[8:07] Rory O'Malley: Ooh, that's a good one.

[8:08] George Salazar: And I was a commitment to LA. When you buy a car, then you really committed.

[8:12] George Salazar: Yeah, I mean, it was a thousand dollar 2001 Buick Century. So it's still a commitment.

[8:21] George Salazar: Still kind of, yeah. But so I moved out there and Joe emails me a couple months after I get out there, and he's like, hey, we're going into production for BE MORE CHILL, and I would really love for you to be in it, but I know you're in LA, and I was like, no, I'll do it.

[8:38] George Salazar: And so the plan was to move back to New York to do Two Rivers production of BE MORE CHILL, and then go back to LA. But when I came back and started rehearsals for BE MORE CHILL, I quickly realized that the things that I left New York in search of were right in front of me. I just needed to be patient. And so I stayed.

[9:03] George Salazar: And I sold my car over the phone. And I had my roommate send me all my belongings. And I stayed. And Be More Chill became this like artistic peak for me at that point. And then years later, it was like none of the projects I'd worked on really felt like BE MORE CHILL felt.

[9:29] George Salazar: And so the New York Times came, Charles Isherwood came and gave it, you know, not the best review, and essentially killed the show. But our friends at Ghost Light Records wanted to preserve it by giving it a cast album. And I'm so grateful that they did because that is how people discovered this thing.

[9:51] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[9:52] George Salazar: And so about a year and a half ago, you know, we mourned the death, it was over. I thought about the show truly every day of my life. Joe would have me, would ask me to sing Michael in the Bathroom at concerts, and it was becoming my like, and I'm telling you, you know.

[10:09] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[10:10] George Salazar: And so I never get tired of singing that song, singing it at concerts. Then a year and a half ago, all of a sudden, out of the blue, like Joe Iconis, Joe Trace, and myself and some of the other cast members from the Two River production were getting tagged in like fan art from BE MORE CHILL.

[10:31] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[10:31] George Salazar: And so we were really confused. And we were trying to, I remember there was like an email chain going on where it was like, okay, are you guys doing anything? Like, are you doing something BE MORE CHILL related because it's all of a sudden like getting Instagram followers and I'm getting tagged in this incredible fan art. And no, no one was doing anything.

[10:51] George Salazar: And so we tried to like figure this thing out. And we didn't figure it out until like the fall of last year when we met two young people who run very popular Tumblr accounts. Uh-huh. And according to them, they take credit for everything. Oh, but they said that they found a video of Joe and I doing Michael in the Bathroom at 54 Below.

[11:13] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[11:13] George Salazar: And they shared it. And then it kind of spread like wildfire from there. And so, you know, from I would say May of last year until through the rest of 2017, it became this kind of like, well, how do we grab the bull by the horns here? Like this has never really happened. Like a musical that dies and then is kind of resurrected over social media, like that to this degree hasn't happened.

[11:48] George Salazar: And so it was like, well, what do we do? You know? And so we, you know, I met with a dear friend Ashley Latimer, who does social media for Broadway shows, and we talked about it and figured out the best way to kind of like go about this. And I mean, I don't think we even needed to have that conversation because people were just discovering the musical on their own.

[12:13] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[12:14] George Salazar: Like there was no Broadway personality plugging BE MORE CHILL. There was no talk show host talking about how they found this thing. It just happened organically, right?

[12:32] George Salazar: Which is nuts. And so it's been really, really cool. It's been a really cool thing to watch the journey of the show kind of unfold before our eyes because every turn is like there's a new surprise.

[12:47] Rory O'Malley: Well, and it happened the way that it needed to happen because the audience that it's for, the young people who it's geared for most, you know, people that it's speaking to, they're the ones who discovered it in the way that they were supposed to. It's weird how things like that happen sometimes, but yeah, I don't think there's a better way or story for how you guys got to where you are, which was getting to have an off-Broadway show. You had a New York Times article written about the momentum online, which that's how I discovered what the show was.

[13:25] George Salazar: I didn't know anything about it until that New York Times article was written.

[13:28] Rory O'Malley: Uh-huh.

[13:28] George Salazar: And so I was like, Well, I gotta figure out what this is. And then you guys came did an off-Broadway run and it just exploded.

[13:37] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[13:38] George Salazar: There's wonderful video of you guys all finding out that you were going to Broadway.

[13:45] Rory O'Malley: Oh, what was that like for you?

[13:49] George Salazar: Um, so they called us in for an emergency automation rehearsal, is what we were being told. And so we all got there, and then what we were like, why is the band here for an automation rehearsal?

[14:02] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[14:02] George Salazar: What you know, why why are like music assistants here for an automation rehearsal? And then we saw our friends at Marathon Digital, um, our social media company, uh setting up a tripod on stage right in front of the thing that is the only automated piece on the set.

[14:17] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[14:17] George Salazar: So I was like, uh what's going on? And uh it was uh it was very shocking because I am I am a person who you know over the years has done a lot of like soul searching right and this business that you and I are in and that I'm sure a lot of your listeners are are a part of is very tricky and it's very um uh it's at times insensitive you know like and heartbreaking yeah and heartbreaking and you know I've had so many um experiences in my 10 years of being in New York that um that have driven me almost to like m leaving well and I it actually happened I I did leave New York because of the business.

[15:11] Rory O'Malley: And so um so you know I um a couple of years ago decided that like I I couldn't um I couldn't make Broadway like uh like a like a I couldn't put Broadway on a pedestal because uh it's a different beast.

[15:34] George Salazar: You know it's not Broadway is not just getting to make things with your friends you know there are so many other factors that that take precedence over that. Commercial theater is a completely it's a it's a beast.

[15:47] Rory O'Malley: And it is and it and it and at times it's mean and cold and heartless.

[15:53] George Salazar: And that was something that I, you know, it was affecting me in a negative way. And I just uh I I just said I can't make this a priority.

[16:04] George Salazar: Um I have to make like um I have to just be able to create with people that I admire. And you know if if that means that I'm only making $350 a week doing it, then that's just what it means.

[16:15] George Salazar: Uh because I'd rather be happy than than have like financial stability, which is like, you know, that's that's so sad. It's so sad that like that that that's even a a thought that an artist uh uh comes across is like you know well it'd be great to be able to pay my bills but right I would I would I would much rather be you know starving and be proud of the work I'm making right because we're not talking about like being proud of the work you're in and or being filthy rich we're literally talking about being able to feed yourself like that that those two things shouldn't have to you know should be separate.

[16:54] Rory O'Malley: But they are and that's just the that's the way that things are and so you know when I I felt like and I know a lot of artists feel this way all the time and I think that this kind of is part of the like the struggle of the artist and it's the thing that fuels us and and makes our art good is this um this uh almost like a you almost feel like a victim.

[17:17] George Salazar: Right.

[17:18] George Salazar: You know and so like there's like this um there's this thing where like for such a long time I felt like a like a uh well someone just give me a chance and it it was and it and it was kind it came in like small bursts.

[17:31] George Salazar: And uh and and this um this this off Broadway production became this thing where I I was just celebrating it every day all day and then and then that that that you know the Broadway announcement happened while I was still celebrating the fact that we were doing the show off Broadway so so as all exciting things were happening for BE MORE CHILL I was like a beat but emotionally a beat behind yeah um and so that day I was like kind of in shock initially and I everyone was crying and I I didn't cry initially it was it kind of made me feel like well maybe you need to go see a therapist George um because you should be you should be in tears right now and uh and and then and then the tears set in when I realized that Joe Iconis who is my favorite uh collaborator and one of my best friends and Lauren Marcus who's one of my favorite collaborators and best friends and um and Jason Sweetooth Williams and I mean the list of of people a Stephen Brackett there are all of these artists who I love and and cherish and they're gonna get to make their Broadway debuts with this show.

[18:53] Rory O'Malley: Yeah and with this journey behind the show and just thinking that and looking at these people on stage I was inconsolable.

[19:03] George Salazar: Like my eyes were I looked like I got stung by like a hundred bees my face was puffy I was just I couldn't stop crying yeah and I actually when when when I pull was able to pull myself together I asked Marathon uh not to include any of the video of me crying uh in that in that in whatever they were making because it was not cute and they they they respected my wishes.

[19:29] George Salazar: Marathon is the best because they are also the ones who we worked with to make the belt the vote videos, and they've been our social media, you know, and that and you participated in that, and which was I'm so grateful for, and we'll talk about later.

[19:41] George Salazar: But that that the intimacy of finding that out, and that is something that really can't be captured on video, the true feelings and the emotions behind that.

[19:52] Rory O'Malley: And it makes sense to me that your initial reaction wouldn't be crying and tears of joy because we build up such strong boundaries and walls around our enthusiasm as actors.

[20:06] George Salazar: We've been uh proven wrong so many times and then put forced down that it's very difficult to immediately celebrate something.

[20:17] Rory O'Malley: You really have to be reassured.

[20:19] George Salazar: I think it's so beautiful that the way that you were able to feel it and celebrate it is by seeing what it was going to be for someone else, you know, and and uh clearly you all have created something so special, not just because of the notes or the words on the page, but because of the dynamic of each other.

[20:43] Rory O'Malley: I think that it really is that's the secret to any successful show is that there's a group of people who want who have a shared interest in telling uh a great story and seeing what you guys created, it was it was extremely powerful.

[20:58] George Salazar: It's so funny, it's so much fun, and I knew I was going to a show that was you know geared towards younger people, and uh, you know, not to make myself be the oldest man alive, but I wasn't sure if I was going to find a way into the story and I found myself just absolutely engaged in every moment finding ways to relate to all these characters in the way that you were able to relate to yours.

[21:26] Rory O'Malley: And it it's for something that is really uh about technology and the future, and it kind of you know, it's seeing so many things about what it means to be a teen and a young person today and how their lives are really you know merged with technology in a way that mine certainly wasn't, but but it the the basis of it is all the same thing of wanting to be liked, wanting to be uh loved, and uh it's a beautiful story.

[21:58] George Salazar: The music is is great, and the performances are just fantastic.

[22:03] Rory O'Malley: So I'm I'm so happy for you.

[22:06] George Salazar: I want to talk a little more about those times and what and what drove you to drive to Los Angeles to get a car in LA because I love to talk about on this podcast the the reality of what it means to live the dream.

[22:21] Rory O'Malley: So you you have your your Broadway dream realized, and you're a part of an amazing show, which you're so fantastic, Godspell.

[22:30] George Salazar: I loved that the cast was wonderful.

[22:33] Rory O'Malley: So many times I think that we have this dream that once you cross that threshold of being on Broadway, that there's no going back, that you're just going to keep on, you know, picking and choosing what your shows are.

[22:48] George Salazar: Offer offer only.

[22:49] Rory O'Malley: I can't wait.

[22:49] George Salazar: This is gonna be great.

[22:50] Rory O'Malley: I'm on Broadway, I'm gonna be offer-only.

[22:53] George Salazar: I'm gonna make so much money.

[22:54] Rory O'Malley: I'm I'm I'm always gonna be in a Broadway show.

[22:57] George Salazar: This is great.

[22:57] Rory O'Malley: And then that's yeah, that doesn't happen.

[22:59] George Salazar: And um and the the dream is built up in your in our minds and in our hearts.

[23:06] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[23:07] George Salazar: And it and and it's and it's uh and it's said to us by our teachers in college, you know?

[23:12] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[23:12] George Salazar: And and so you know there's this like well this that's the that's the pinnacle of success a Broadway show.

[23:20] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[23:20] George Salazar: And you get there and you know Godspell was was a wonderful experience because like the people involved again like talking about a a cast dynamic a cr and a creative dynamic it just felt you know um it felt really like a very special thing to be a part of.

[23:38] Rory O'Malley: But that was my second job in New York.

[23:43] George Salazar: Like I had done right before Godspell I was in the non union spring awakening tour.

[23:49] Rory O'Malley: And you know I'm such a believer in you know um uh these things should take time and uh and and they should and they should happen when you're ready for them.

[24:02] George Salazar: Um and sure like you know when we graduate college you're out of the gate and you're like I'm ready I'm ready let's do this let me get a Broadway job.

[24:09] Rory O'Malley: But the reality of it you know I was in New York for three years before Godspell so I you know there's there was a substantial um amount of self-discovery and hustling that that went into that and I know a lot of people who book a Broadway show immediately after graduating uh college or they're still in college when they booked the Broadway show and what I normally see is and this obviously this I'm this isn't this isn't everyone's story but I I've I've noticed that it's kind of a trend is that the the people who who only know New York as a Broadway actor right uh are not prepared for what what's gonna happen once your show closes.

[24:55] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[24:56] George Salazar: And it becomes this really destructive thing um where people lose their identity they lose who they are they lose their they just become these like personas and that that's so um it's so counterproductive because we have to be people you know like that has to be the top the the number one priority as an artist is like you you have to also figure out how to be a happy person.

[25:29] Rory O'Malley: Yeah and and how to balance um you know aspirations and goals and and a real life and I I feel like that number one that's the reason I have this podcast is to try to like remind people that you have to figure out how to be a happy person first before you can think that you're living the dream and that a show or a job or something in this business is going to give you that happiness to make you feel like you're living the dream.

[26:00] George Salazar: Yeah yeah and but that is so hard.

[26:03] Rory O'Malley: It's so hard.

[26:04] George Salazar: It's hard to even accept that like when you're in your 20s and you're like no no no I don't I shouldn't have to do more work on myself or other things.

[26:14] George Salazar: I'm making my I'm making my dream come true.

[26:16] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[26:17] George Salazar: Like that's that's the deal.

[26:18] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and that doesn't happen.

[26:20] George Salazar: That your dreams don't come true if you don't have your shit.

[26:22] George Salazar: If if you uh if you don't have your shit together.

[26:25] George Salazar: Like, but but you know, so so my personal experience with with that was like, okay, well, God's vote closed, and I was like, uh oh, I like I spent too much money, you know?

[26:40] George Salazar: Like I I was being re I was living life like I was Beyonce or something.

[26:46] George Salazar: And now I have like eight dollars. So I have like don't my my bank account doesn't indicate that I was in a Broadway show. Um and for 13 months after Godspell closed, I didn't no one hired me. I was not I was unemployed. I ran out of unemployment after Godspell. And so it was this really sobering moment where I when now as I'm 32 years old, I looked back at that experience and I was like, I the problem is I wasn't ready for that. That happened too soon. I was not I did not know who I was as a person. Um I was not confident in myself, I did not love myself, I was not a happy person.

[27:36] Right.

[27:37] George Salazar: And I kind of just masked everything with, well, I'm on Broadway and this is great. And my parents are proud and my school is proud, my friends are proud, and this is great. But at the end of the day, like I was like, I was not I was just not in a good place. So I look back at that and then and that's why I that's why I got emotional thinking about how my friends would be making their Broadway debuts would be more chill. Is like I know that each of those people have hustled and worked so hard for so many years for this moment, and I know what this moment is gonna feel like for them and I know that they're going to truly appreciate every minute of it because they're ready for it, yeah, in a way that I was not ready for my Broadway debut.

[28:24] So, you know, um, yeah, I mean that show closed in 2012, and for um three, four, maybe four or five years after that, I just did, I just held the mirror up to my face, and I went to therapy. I worked on myself, I struggled with my identity as like a mixed race person and also as a gay person. I finally mustered up the courage to come out to my father when I was 30. You know, there was like there was just there were so many, for some reason my development was so stunted. And I in the time after Godspell, between Godspell and now, I got my shit together.

[29:11] Yeah.

[29:11] George Salazar: And I confronted the things I confronted my I faced my fears. And I learned how to live without fear. I learned how to function as fearless as I could possibly be. And we're, you know, you're never gonna be completely fearless. There's always there's always things about life that terrify, but like for the most part, I was I've been able to kind of like um resituate myself mentally and spiritually and emotionally, and have just figured my shit out. And it was because I made um Broadway not a priority.

[29:47] Right.

[29:47] George Salazar: And I made my personal happiness um the priority. Right. What what do I what do I need? And it's not, and it's the answer is not a Broadway show, it's not a production contract. It's not a gig. Like the answer is not a job. A job is not going to make me happy. And I will only be happy in that job if I have if I figure my if I figure my stuff out. And so uh so it's been a it's been quite the journey.

[30:16] Yeah.

[30:16] George Salazar: And I'm not done. That's the thing. It's like I'm not done. I'm still still we're still working on ourselves.

[30:23] Yeah, and we're never we're never done.

[30:25] George Salazar: That's the sad part.

[30:26] Yeah.

[30:27] George Salazar: You know, like well, but once you accept that, you aren't stressed out by it. You're like, oh, it's about the journey of it that you have to keep that that's kind of like to be an artist, you need to keep peeling back the layers that's keeping you from your vulnerability.

[30:43] And you are a better performer because you went through those years after Godspell.

[30:50] George Salazar: You were able to give more on the stage, not just not just enjoy it more, but you're a better actor and performer because of it.

[30:57] Yeah.

[30:58] George Salazar: Yeah. I mean, I certainly feel that way. And I and I see and and and you and I see that when I see my friends and in in shows when people are you could you just you feel it. You feel that they have like, you know, that there has there is a life experience uh that they're drawing from.

[31:17] Um and you you feel it and you hear it and you see it in their work.

[31:22] Yeah.

[31:23] George Salazar: And yeah, I mean, it's it's all part of the part of the journey. Like I I always talk about how, you know, um, I'm I'm a huge believer in manifesting um the reality that you want.

[31:35] But we we have like the power to do that.

[31:38] George Salazar: Um and I and I I've always been a believer of that, but this be more chill thing has become uh just such proof that it is possible to uh put put your heart into something and and really focus, like the that kind of focused energy.

[31:58] Right.

[31:58] George Salazar: Um and uh yeah, I mean it's just uh I always I talk about how you have to identify the um your destination. You have to like choose the destination that you want in your life.

[32:11] Right.

[32:12] George Salazar: And the only way that you can really get that is if you if you pull your pull yourself together uh and and get it together enough to know what truly what what what is the destination and um and then you have to just uh give up control, yeah, and enjoy the hard left turns and the U-turns and the right turns and you know the the backwards that you'll inevitably have to go to uh in order to get to that destination.

[32:42] Um and that that journey is like the that's the fun part is the unexpected.

[32:47] I I will get full-on musical theater nerd with you right now, but if you know I was obsessed with Sunday in the Park with George as a kid, yeah and you know, watched it and I was like, this is the best show.

[32:59] Not until I had spent 10 years trying to be an actor in this business did I understand what the song move on is to keep moving on.

[33:12] Don't worry about where you're going, you've gone, you know, that that it's about moving forward and the the pursuit of your art and your passion.

[33:21] That's what that's what it is.

[33:23] It's not about being scared of you know where you are, it's just keep moving on, keep creating.

[33:30] And you know, uh, I think that that is it was such a a brilliant way for Sondheim to kind of show all artists through through this painter or creator that I kind of thought, oh, that's separate, you know, that's not the same.

[33:44] But really, when you're a creative person, you can torture yourself if you don't just keep moving forward and moving on.

[33:52] Yeah.

[33:53] George Salazar: I I'm so happy you brought that up. I I played George in my last year of college.

[33:59] Oh my God.

[34:00] George Salazar: And thought that I was, oh my God, I was incredible. I thought I was like truly.

[34:04] Well, I'm sure you were.

[34:07] George Salazar: I thought I was thought it was so magnificent. But similarly, um, after being an adult, I look back at that, at that whole experience, and it's like, I didn't know what I didn't know what I was singing.

[34:20] Like I just didn't, I there's no way you just don't know.

[34:23] And it's you're so right.

[34:25] I mean, it is just it's just um you can't you just you can't harp on the failures, right?

[34:32] You also can't uh give yourself too much praise for the successes because you have to just you gotta keep on track.

[34:42] Right.

[34:42] George Salazar: And uh, you know, there's yeah, there's just there's so much to living the dream.

[34:49] Yeah, that's right.

[34:51] George Salazar: It's it's and that the the the reason I have this podcast and have these conversations is because we're all thinking the same things, and it's so hard to have a moment to just sit down and talk about what we've learned and how we cope with that journey and how we move on, how we keep going forward.

[35:09] Yeah.

[35:10] George Salazar: Let me ask you um about something specific with BE MORE CHILL that we we're always talking about social media. And because the show really had this resurgence and as you said resurrection from social media and on an online presence that's very unique to any show.

[35:29] But it also has like a you know social media can become very overwhelming when you are under the microscope of of fans or or people and you have you feel like a responsibility to share your like your private life and also as a gay man as a performer you know like there's there's also that aspect of it.

[35:54] But this show in particular I feel like because you guys have such a devoted fan base that is online that has got to be a little trickier and um is a whole different world and it would be for me you know like I Hamilton fans are are amazing and there's a whole bunch of them but I was just kind of on the outskirts of riding a wave that Lynn you know was forging.

[36:21] You guys are really having to figure this out on your own how have you all coped with that um everyone's got their own relationship with social media.

[36:35] Right.

[36:36] George Salazar: Some people uh some people abhor it and and don't and don't use it um other people like myself find it to be uh kind of a positive thing. You know I I just had the discussion. I've I talked to Nick Blemeier about this quite a bit because he's he's so fascinated with with um with the role that social media has played in in the show and he's also uh I at times a bit of a an opponent of social media because there's an ugliness to it and I and I I admit that there's an ugliness to it where and this is what I was saying like where people are not themselves and people have put on a persona um when I when all of this stuff was going down you know because Michael in the bathroom was the gateway drug for people discovering be more chill and so the result the product of that was you know I was like generating uh a a following and people were like like looking at things that I was posting for the first you know what I mean like social media before that was from for my friends like for me and my friends and um I had these meetings with uh Ashley Latimer about how best to to approach this because it was everything was happening so fast yeah such big numbers and we decided that I just needed to be myself and uh and that is the that is the thing that is the decision that we made that um has allowed this whole experience to not be uh terrifying and exhausting right I'm just being myself and like you know there are things obviously the privacy is a thing but it's it's kind of like understanding that okay well social media is no longer a thing for me to can keep in touch with my friends.

[38:33] Yeah.

[38:34] George Salazar: That I'll I'll keep in touch with my friends by texting them and hanging out with them in person.

[38:38] Yes.

[38:39] George Salazar: And I actually prefer that. Like I actually prefer that social media is it has now become like a little bit of a tool.

[38:46] Well, I think that sometimes people have this false sense that when they put out social media, it's just for this small group of people that they've uh curated.

[38:58] George Salazar: When you put out any for any of us, if you put something out over social media, it is for the world to see. You know, even if you're if you even in if you have like privacy things on, you know, you risk the entire world seeing it.

[39:13] I've always thought thought the same thing that as much as I know that as soon as Book of Mormon started that my social media was not for me any longer.

[39:24] There were lots of people who are going to be looking at it who were, you know, basically teenage girls.

[39:31] And I was like, I have to be absolutely aware that these young women are looking at my social media, and I should respect that and that uh you know be careful of of what I put out to be, you know, not I don't know, just respectful.

[39:48] Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[39:50] George Salazar: You know, for for me it came with it came with this um the it came the this whole thing came with a little bit of a responsibility that I was honored and thrilled to have. And it is this is like a a glimpse into like what it was like to grow up as George.

[40:09] George Salazar: Growing up, my mother is Filipino and my father is Ecuadorian. And so I grew up in a household where English was the common language, but then when I would leave the house, people would think that I was full-blooded Latino and would just start speaking to me in Spanish. And I never learned it. My parents were too busy working their asses off as immigrants to give their kids the life that they always dreamed of having. So they didn't have the time to sit us down and teach us verbs in their native tongues. Like they were working. They were working their asses off. And so I would get harassed by lunch ladies, by teachers, by friends, by the parents of friends for not knowing Spanish or for not knowing Tagalog.

And then, you know, when they would have us do standardized testing, I don't know if you know this, but it wasn't until the year 2000 when the US Census included an option under ethnicity when they do their checkups on, you know, what percentage of America is white and what percentage it wasn't until 2000, the year 2000, when they included an option for mixed race. Not until 2000. 2000. Jeez. And so there are all these studies out, and I've been really researching this lately because growing up, there was no one in the entertainment world that I looked at and said, "Oh, I see myself in that person." Instead, I was seeing myself in white actors or white musicians, and what was happening was this weird thing where I remember in college, I remember sitting down at my desk in my apartment with a notebook writing George S and then writing other less ethnic sounding last names.

And I was trying to pick which name was gonna be my stage name when I became equity. That was a 45-minute moment of my life where I was trying to remove my mixed raceness from my life. And so I, you know, when all of this stuff started happening and I was meeting brown kids, white kids, black kids, gay kids, lesbian kids, trans kids, straight kids, there was something about me, there was a fraction of who I am as a person that they saw themselves in.

[42:55] George Salazar: Yeah, I kind of made the decision that like my social media, which is my direct line with this generation of people, it was, you know, obviously I want to be myself, but such a huge part of being myself is leading with my heart and kind of trying to spread positivity. And so that's kind of become the kind of the, you know, obviously there's like fun and games and goofiness, but at the end of the day, like social media for me is now like a direct line with young people to tell them, you know, it's okay to be different and it's okay if it's okay to be gay and it's okay to if you're trans and I will always be an ally for those people and there's always like a safe place here and you will always have an ally in me. That kind of like taking social media and trying to make the most out of it has kind of been such a joy for me.

[44:04] Rory O'Malley: Well, to talk about, you know, you're saying that you're ready for this now after your years after Godspell. I mean, this is something that you really have to have a responsibility and maturity to handle that if this was handed to you, this responsibility of having a social media following without really knowing yourself or being sure about it yourself, it would be disastrous.

[44:04] George Salazar: Yeah, forget it. Yeah, there would be, there would be, I'd be canceled. They call it cancel. I'd be canceled. Everyone just completely unsubscribed and canceled if this was going down in 2011, 100%. And no, it's, you know, I have, I am, I'm like, I've lived through my twenties, yeah, and I learned a lot about myself and I now am, you know, I am thrilled to be someone that people look up to and I'm happy to be a figure in this industry that like I didn't have when I was growing up.

[44:04] Rory O'Malley: Let's talk about when you were growing up. You grew up in Florida, right?

[44:04] George Salazar: Yes, yeah, in Orlando.

[44:04] Rory O'Malley: So what was the theater scene like there for you? I think we've had Wesley Taylor, he's from Orlando, Jessica Rush, yeah, I'm trying to think of other Orlando folks I know.

[45:37] George Salazar: Michael James Scott is.

[45:39] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[45:39] George Salazar: I, you know, I didn't get involved in theater actually until my last year of high school. And so then by the time that I was like fully in love with theater, I was already in college.

[45:50] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[45:50] George Salazar: But you know, a lot of young actors will work at Disney or Universal. That's a very common first job, right? Working in the entertainment departments of those theme parks. But for me, yeah, it was just being a part of the drama club at high school and then moving to college. I stayed in Florida, I was at the University of Florida in Gainesville, and I was a 260-pound brown kid who was a little too Asian to play a Latino and a little too Latino to play an Asian. But what ended up happening was, you know, we'd audition for summer work and I never booked, never booked. And so instead of staying at home for the summer, I decided to intern in New York City. And so my first internship was with Martian Entertainment, a general management firm.

[46:57] George Salazar: Yeah, and then my second internship before senior year was with Bono Brian Brown. Wow. And the press agency in New York, yeah. And I will tell you that that summer with that press agency taught me so much about the side of the business that you don't, they don't teach you in college. Like they don't teach you how to give an interview. They don't teach you, you know, what is an acceptable thing to say. You know, and it's, and so it was a huge learning experience and such an invaluable experience for me. And I also then got to kind of acclimate myself to New York City.

[47:40] Rory O'Malley: How did you have these connections? Was it through your college?

[47:42] George Salazar: No, I just, when I tell you I'm a hustler, I just went to playbill.com and I found job listings and I sent cover letters and samples of like I did some publicity work for the theater company, the student-run theater organization at my college. I was the publicist for that. So I knew how to write a press release. I knew how to market certain things. I just, I had to, because that was my role in this theater company. I would say that that experience or any internship in New York while you're in college is so much more valuable than like a summer stock acting job because you're doing that all year round. If you have a chance to do something to see behind the curtain of the business, exactly.

[48:33] Rory O'Malley: Oh, that's so smart. So smart.

[48:34] George Salazar: Exactly. And I think that that's, you know, that is I think a big reason as to how, as to why I'm still in New York and why the business never really owned me in a way that like a lot of my classmates that I went to college with tried New York for a year and couldn't handle it and left, you know. It's because I had this upper hand, I had this advantage, and I had this pre-existing relationship with the city. Because like, I mean, aside from just auditioning and trying to get a job, like just paying your bills and being a human in New York City is so hard. And I learned, you know, in small bursts through college what it takes to be a New Yorker.

[49:22] George Salazar: And so yeah, so growing up, like I didn't, or going through college rather, I didn't get summer work, I didn't have those opportunities, and that's another reason why I think that I wasn't ready for my Broadway debut. And you know, now like eight years, seven, eight years later, I have done like so many 29-hour readings, and I learned from those how to sight read, and I learned how to sing in a healthy way from working with really talented singers. And it's like we're just constantly learning, right? You know, and I kind of like stealing from your friends. I love that skill set and I love how that person, I can see how that person is so strong in that thing. How do I learn from them? Right. It's just we're constantly learning and we're constantly growing.

[50:22] Rory O'Malley: You are also very clearly, you're very passionate about your responsibility towards young people, and you were so wonderful to be one of the first people to jump on board with our Belt the Vote campaign to get the theater community voting on November 6th. Why is it important to you to get the theater community to vote, first of all, but just to have like a social conscience and be active on social issues as a performer?

[50:56] George Salazar: Yeah. Great question. So in high school, I wasn't, when I was in high school it was death smack during 9-11 and then after that it was Afghanistan and Iraq and I remember being a high school student and feeling so helpless and feeling really defeated and feeling like, you know, there's never, I'm never going to be able to help, this is never, I am just a small, small person and I have no say and I've no power and that sucks. Like that is a really, really terrible realization to make before you, you know, while you're even starting high school, you know? And so I remember feeling really let down and really upset that I had no say and nothing I could do would make a difference. Fast forward to February of this year, and then in a couple of moments since when I've gotten to meet these kids, but like these Parkland survivors, right, and the heads of March for Our Lives, these are high school students.

They're just kids, but they're kids who don't feel that same kind of powerlessness that I felt in high school, right? And I am so unbelievably moved and inspired by them because I was in their shoes during a catastrophic event in our country's history and I felt so powerless and they have used this terrible thing that happened to them to try to affect change and try to make things happen and try to fix the narrative. And seeing them kind of take ownership was a huge motivating factor for me because I'm an adult now, you know what I mean? Like I'm an adult and I should be meeting them at least halfway. I should be, I should be doing something. And you know, this BE MORE CHILL phenomenon has granted me the platform to, yes, I can make an Instagram story and do fart sounds and people think it's funny and my friends will think it's funny and I'll have a good time doing it, but I can also catch people off guard and make some sort of political statement and use this platform for a positive effect.

[53:56] George Salazar: And so it just thinking about and I think about high school George all the time. I think about that kid and how lost he was and how, um, and the masks he wore and the facades that he hid behind for acceptance, all of that stuff. I think about that every day in my life as an adult. And I think about that helplessness, and I think about how I now have somewhat of a platform to, if anything, let people know that they're seen and heard and they're not alone. And that there are people just like them that are adults that have gone through all the things that they've gone through and are functioning and well respected and living their dreams.

[54:51] George Salazar: Right. And, um, and so a social awareness is, you know, I think another important factor of social media. If you have the platform and the ears of a generation, which, you know, a lot of us do, how do you use that for good? Because I'm, I'm so, I'm kind of over people talking about, I mean, there are factors of social media that are terrifying, um, but there are also factors of social media that are positive. The Parkland students, like so much of that was through social media. Right. Um, and getting their, making sure their voices were being heard, a lot of that was through social media. And so, so yeah, so it's just been, it's been, um, it's been nice to have the ears of, uh, people listening, right? And then, and, and also being able to speak out and, um, and be vocal.

[55:57] Rory O'Malley: Well, you know, once again, you have a responsibility and you feel the weight of that and want to respect it and make sure that everyone's informed about what's going on in the world.

[56:10] George Salazar: Yeah, yeah, and, uh, there's such a wonderful captivated audience of the BE MORE CHILL fandom, and I think that it's wonderful that you and your castmates, Will Roland, Jason Tam, and others have stepped up to the plate because I've seen, you know, what happens with the cast in The Book of Mormon and with Hamilton, and it's a lot of work just to get the show done, to do eight shows a week. And you guys were filming a video for us the day before your opening or the day of opening. Like, it was not a question in your minds; you knew that this was important, and it really helped launch the entire movement and got hundreds and hundreds of people registered to vote. So thank you so, so much for, I'm just thrilled. I'm thrilled that people are leaving the house and, and recognizing that we're not hopeless.

[57:05] George Salazar: No, that we each are, yes, sure, one person, but that one person is a part of something that can make change the narrative. We don't have to sit back and accept when things are not going, um, you know, I obviously, obviously like bipartisanship is such a big thing with, with Vote Belt, and so I don't want to say too much, but like, you know, it's, um, it's important to not feel like, well, I can't make a difference.

[57:38] Rory O'Malley: Right. Because whether you have a hundred Instagram followers or you have, uh, two million Instagram followers, you can make a difference, and it's just, it's as easy as getting out of your house and voting.

[57:50] George Salazar: Yes.

[57:50] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[57:51] Rory O'Malley: It's where, it's where everything starts. So it's the, it's literally the least we can do. So we better do that.

[57:58] George Salazar: Exactly. Um, before we go, you talked about, I always talk about body image because I think for men and women, it's something that we struggle with a lot in this industry and talk about the least. You talked about being 260 pounds, and you are not that right now. How have you coped with being, um, with body image issues in this business and how you see yourself?

[58:25] George Salazar: Yeah, well, okay, so growing up, my, um, my parents, they moved to America in, uh, in the 70s, uh, and, uh, worked really hard to buy a house and take care of their kids and feed their kids, and that was a huge thing. Like, in both of, uh, my parents' cultures, food is, is a, is like a, uh, it's a social thing, right? You know, like we eat together at the table, um, and we eat well. And so I was, uh, very well fed growing up, and, um, and I, I never, I, growing up, like, uh, even through high school, I didn't feel like I was fat or unattractive. I was always, my whole life, I've been very lucky to be surrounded with, uh, with love, uh, love and acceptance. And, um, and so it wasn't until I actually moved to New York and was like kind of deep into the business where I was like, oh, okay, I'm overweight.

And, um, anytime I'd try to, like, diet or exercise, it was always for either, um, uh, well, I'm not castable as a fat guy, or, uh, or like gay dudes won't find me attractive as a fat guy. And those were the motivating factors behind me trying to lose weight, and they never stuck, like they never worked.

[59:52] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[59:53] George Salazar: I would, I would work out for a month and then put all that weight back on again.

[59:58] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[59:58] George Salazar: And then what it, what it, what became clear to me, and this is again a thing where it's like, you know, you just, it just takes time and you just realize what matters and what doesn't, I realized that, um, you know, um, I was doing Godspell, and it was a very physical show, and I was heavy when we started, and, um, and doing a physical show as a heavy person was really difficult. And I was developing knee problems and all, and I was in my 20s, and I, and I was sore, my body was sore all day. And I was like, well, you know, I don't work out, like I don't get any kind of physical, I haven't done any physical activity in my whole life for 20 plus years. And so it became clear to me that like for my own physical well-being, um, and longevity in my career, I had to watch what I was eating and eat, you know, uh, um, a sensible portion instead of like going for thirds and fourths, you know. Um, I still love eating, don't get me wrong.

[1:01:00] Rory O'Malley: Me too, me too.

[1:01:01] George Salazar: Yeah, who doesn't? But like, you know, it's just, it's kind of, um, everything in moderation. And like, um, and, uh, and it was really surprising to see my transformation because another really effed up thing about body image is like even when you're losing weight and you're looking in the mirror, like you're looking at, you look at yourself in the mirror every day. So you don't actually clock how your body's changing.

[1:01:26] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:01:27] George Salazar: Everyone around you can if they're not seeing you every day. And, uh, and so it became this thing where I realized that I needed to, um, I, I stopped like weighing myself because the weighing, I still look the same. Am I like when I even still, even still when I look in the mirror, I still see like the same body from high school.

[1:01:49] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:01:49] George Salazar: Uh, I know that's not the case because I, because my, my like measurement method now is clothes, like how does this fit me?

[1:01:58] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:01:59] George Salazar: Um, and, and that's, you have a costume that always is, uh, you, you have the same costume eight shows a week. I always know like day meal to meal how I'm doing weigh yourself when you are wearing the same thing every single day.

[1:02:13] Rory O'Malley: Exactly.

[1:02:14] George Salazar: Uh, so you know, it's been this like constant journey and I'm still figuring it out, but I am now someone who I have learned to, uh, love my body, and I've learned to feel really good, and I feel, I feel good, and, um, and I won't, regardless of what body I'm in, I'm not gonna be everyone's cup of tea. And it's just accepting that, you know, and also realizing that I don't need someone else's approval or acceptance to feel good about myself.

[1:02:52] Rory O'Malley: It's a daily struggle for me as well, and it's taken a lot of time to kind of just be like, this is what I look like, and this is me. These are the stories that this body is gonna get to tell, you know.

[1:03:06] George Salazar: And I'm glad because those are the stories of like that are closest to me and who I am, and exactly, it's tough because when you're young and you feel like things aren't going your way for you in the business especially, you're like, man, if only I looked like Brad Pitt, then things would be easy. But, you know, it's really because this business is just hard for everyone and everyone has their own kind of problems.

[1:03:34] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, because there are people who look like Brad Pitt who aren't working.

[1:03:38] George Salazar: Right.

[1:03:39] George Salazar: So it's not the thing that's missing. It's not, you know, it's not, it's really about being able to connect and find a story that speaks to you and that lets your talent shine, and clearly that's what this moment in BE MORE CHILL is for you. I think that you have such a great outlook on body image because what you've discovered is it's a, we are athletes when we're doing eight shows a week, and you have to be healthy. It's really about finding a way to be healthy and not about the aesthetic look of what you are.

[1:04:10] Rory O'Malley: Right. I don't need a six-pack to do BE MORE CHILL.

[1:04:13] George Salazar: No, I just need to not eat fried chicken right before the show. Like that's what I need to do to do BE MORE CHILL.

[1:04:22] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:04:22] George Salazar: And, and yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, it's, we're, we're again, it's the, this is the journey.

[1:04:29] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:04:29] George Salazar: And, um, and I think to have everything figured out is boring. I think it's, it's really thrilling to be 32 and to still be making discoveries about myself.

[1:04:44] Rory O'Malley: Just keep moving on.

[1:04:45] George Salazar: That's the only thing I'll be doing us.

[1:04:48] George Salazar: But yeah, it's, it, that's what it is. It's, it's that, you know, we, we think that again we cross the threshold and we're supposed to have everything figured out, but no, we're like just scratching the surface, and that's what's exciting. And I think that you are such a great talent, but more importantly, you have the ability to show empathy and understanding to a group of people right now who really need it, and you're positioned so perfectly for it. I'm so lucky that I got to see you and your cast in this wonderful show off-Broadway before it explodes on Broadway and reaches an even bigger audience because I know the impact that it's going to have, and it's not just going to be in New York; it's going to be for generations of this show being done in high schools and changing lives and really speaking to a lot of people. So I'm so excited for you.

[1:05:45] Rory O'Malley: I think it's gonna be a wild ride, and you are definitely ready for it. When does it open on Broadway? Is there a date already?

[1:06:00] George Salazar: Um, yeah, we, we start performing, we start previews February 13th, uh, and we open March 10th.

[1:06:07] Rory O'Malley: Wow. So exciting.

[1:06:08] Rory O'Malley: Um, that'll be here before you know it. So I hope you get to enjoy a little bit of relaxation and some downtime.

[1:06:17] George Salazar: Okay, good.

[1:06:17] George Salazar: Good. I just, I was like, you're everywhere, you're even more in more places than you were when you were doing the show.

[1:06:23] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, this guy's in demand.

[1:06:25] George Salazar: Um, but thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us here.

[1:06:28] George Salazar: Oh god, thank you for having me. And for making, and for making me cry at the, uh, um, you're wonderful.

[1:06:36] Rory O'Malley: Thanks, George.

[1:06:37] George Salazar: Um, thank you.

[1:06:39] George Salazar: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.