This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Rory O'Malley: This is episode number 29 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:05] Rory O'Malley: If you like the podcast, remember to subscribe, rate, and review.

[0:10] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.

[0:16] Rory O'Malley: Hey there, dreamers, Rory O'Malley here. Thank you so much for listening to Living the Dream.

[0:23] Rory O'Malley: My guest this week is Raymond J. Lee, a good friend of mine. I've known for years. He has been in a bunch of different shows and is currently in Groundhog Day on Broadway in the ensemble.

[0:37] Rory O'Malley: But he's one of those ensemble members that never is just in the ensemble. He's always standing out because he's just he's a funny guy. He's insanely talented, an incredible singer, and just a good guy. And I really loved my conversation with him.

[0:55] Rory O'Malley: But first things first, let's talk about the Tony Awards. The Tony Awards happened last night. Well, actually, they happened about three hours ago. And I uh I I'm always amazed at how much the Tony Awards reinvigorate my passion for Broadway.

[1:18] Rory O'Malley: And you know, I I never never think they're going to give me that rush of adrenaline and excitement that they do every single year, no matter what shows are nominated, no matter what's happening, no matter who the host is or what's going on. It is just so exciting to watch three hours of celebrating Broadway of plays and musicals and what we love.

[1:47] Rory O'Malley: This year was no different, but it was special because I got to see some friends win awards. Uh, namely Gavin Creel's, who has been a guest on the podcast, one of my first guests, and who has been such a close friend. Watching him win a Tony is absolutely insane. It's amazing, and he so deserves it.

[2:14] Rory O'Malley: I haven't seen him in this show. I don't care. He deserves this, and you all know it. He has been such a solid, amazing performer on Broadway for so many years. So to see him get that award was it was just very, very special.

[2:32] Rory O'Malley: And there were just so many highlights from Ben Platt's speech to winning for Dear Evan Hansen to uh all the performances. My buddy Josh Groban and the cast of Great Comet, their spectacular performance of their beautiful show. Um Josh Gad, another guest on the podcast, he was on there as well, and uh representing Carnegie Mellon, our alma mater.

[3:01] Rory O'Malley: Um what else? Kevin Spacey was I thought was great, especially since he apparently didn't have a lot of notice and didn't know that he was going to be hosting the Tonys until fairly recently. I thought he did a lot in a short period of time and really made fun of the fact that he was not the first choice, so to speak.

[3:24] Rory O'Malley: Um but it was it was it was amazing because the Tonys are always amazing. It's Broadway, and it's a time for the Broadway community to come together and celebrate what we do, and uh I just am so lucky that I've been around long enough to be able to watch it in a bar with a bunch of friends in the Hamel Tour and just see people up on the TV screen who I know aren't just the most talented folks that walk on this planet, but they're also just really lovely.

[4:08] Rory O'Malley: And to get to see dreams fulfilled like that, man. I I'm it's it brings me to tears by the end of every segment into every commercial break. I am uh I'm so moved by watching the Tony Awards, and I'm sure you are too. So I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did, and I hope you enjoy this conversation with Raymond J. Lee.

[4:40] Rory O'Malley: Uh, as I said, he has been in a bunch of different shows. Before he was in Mamma Mia, he was in Mamma Mia when I met him. He was in uh Honeymoon in Vegas, he was in Anything Goes, and he's currently in Groundhog Day on Broadway with the great Andy Carl and a good friend of mine, Barrett Doss, who is also in that show.

[5:01] Rory O'Malley: Um it's a really great company. They've had to get through a lot in their early weeks through previews when the set broke and when Andy had uh an injury. So they had to get through a lot, and he gets into depth about that. He also talks with me about being a part of Nerds, the musical. He was also there when our show collapsed and was no longer. Uh so we we talk about that, unpack that a little bit, and uh it's a wonderful conversation. So please enjoy Raymond J. Lee.

[5:39] Rory O'Malley: How are you doing, Ray?

[5:42] Raymond J. Lee: I'm good, Rory. It's so good to like see your face.

[5:45] Rory O'Malley: I know. It's so good to see your face. And thank you so much for talking to me on your day off.

[5:50] Raymond J. Lee: Oh my gosh, of course. I've not seen the show. I've not seen Groundhog Day because you've been busy.

[5:57] Rory O'Malley: Well, I haven't been busy, I've just been away.

[5:59] Raymond J. Lee: Let's say that's true, yeah. Um Groundhog Day.

[6:04] Raymond J. Lee: Yes.

[6:04] Raymond J. Lee: All right. I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard uh the most amazing things about everything, but uh especially about you and the entire cast as a collective team ensemble and and supporting cast that everyone is like working their asses off.

[6:26] Raymond J. Lee: Um we I have never worked so hard in my life.

[6:29] Rory O'Malley: Wow, that's really saying something.

[6:32] Raymond J. Lee: Ooh, it's you know, it's it's a probably one of the most talented groups I've ever worked with just because everybody does everything.

[6:39] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[6:40] Raymond J. Lee: Um everyone's dancing, everyone's funny, everyone's singing their face off, everyone's singing on their feet, and literally um we never stop the the the ensemble. Um if you're not on stage, you know, doing a dance move or doing something, you're backstage dodging set pieces, quick changing, grabbing props. So it's that's it's been the hardest I've ever worked, but it's it's such a good group. And I'm glad people like our show. I'm very thankful for that.

[7:10] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, they they love your show.

[7:13] Raymond J. Lee: Yay and of course you know Andy Carl is is our fearless leader so we yeah we have a good guy leading us and he came he did it in London so he knew the show when he started working with you guys right yeah he um originated the the show and his role in London at the Old Vic um with the whole team and then um when they brought it over here he was the veteran everybody else is new right so um he we would always ask him for advice just so I'm like how does this work what do you think how are the turntables and so he was a good kind of resource to have when we were all fanning for our lives in the beginning.

[7:13] Rory O'Malley: Right yeah and I'm sure there's tons of bits that you guys have on stage with him and he knows how they work or what plays really well and what doesn't it's it's so beneficial to have somebody who knows the material that well.

[7:13] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah and his brain is so tight that even sometimes the the creative team like Matthew would be like what was this shotography we did in London and Andy was like bam bam bam bam bam so he was he was a great resource and a great leader to have.

[8:58] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[8:58] Rory O'Malley: So I've known him. I've known him. I remember he was working with us when he found out that he got Legally Blonde.

[9:06] Rory O'Malley: Wow. Um I don't know if you realize this but I know Andy because we were in a little show called Happy Days the Musical which I you know everything always goes back to Happy Days the Musical for me for the for the late great Mr. Gary Marshall he came in and uh took over for Joey McIntyre for a period of time for like a few weeks when we were doing it at the Falcon Theater in Burbank, like a few years ago.

[9:06] Raymond J. Lee: Wow.

[9:06] Rory O'Malley: He was like, I'm gonna go do this musical of Legally Blonde. And I was like, whoa, that's interesting.

[9:12] Raymond J. Lee: And he was the UPS guy.

[9:14] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, like the sexy UPS man.

[9:16] Raymond J. Lee: FedEx guy in front of the FedEx.

[9:17] Rory O'Malley: Is it FedEx?

[9:18] Raymond J. Lee: UPS.

[9:18] Rory O'Malley: He was the delivery.

[9:20] Raymond J. Lee: Yes.

[9:20] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[9:21] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[9:21] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[9:23] Raymond J. Lee: And um I remember I remember him from Altar Boys, and then of course Legally Blonde. So like to finally get to work with him and A being like a drunk bar scene together with him.

[9:33] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[9:33] Rory O'Malley: And when you come see the show, you'll see our scene. It ends up being this crazy car chase.

[9:38] Raymond J. Lee: Really?

[9:38] Rory O'Malley: And yeah.

[9:39] Rory O'Malley: Oh, I'm so excited for you to see Roy. It's just like it goes from the bar right to a car chase.

[9:45] Raymond J. Lee: I feel like it's the only car chase ever like fully done on a Broadway stage.

[9:49] Rory O'Malley: Um it's insane. And so we have a good time up there.

[9:55] Raymond J. Lee: No way.

[9:55] Raymond J. Lee: Good.

[9:55] Raymond J. Lee: I actually except when a turntable breaks.

[9:56] Rory O'Malley: Maybe more than a few years.

[9:58] Rory O'Malley: Right now now, okay, so it is that what happened the first night? What happened that first night?

[10:04] Raymond J. Lee: That was a big deal all over the Twitter.

[10:10] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah. So what had happened was, you know, um, first preview, we're all like amped, we're all super stoked, we're excited, it's first preview, uh energy. Um, and the show was going great. We were all feeling it, and um 20 minutes in. It was the end of um the first day, you know. We were um um all up at the knob, pretending to, you know, cheering for um Punks and Tony Phil's entrance, and then the turntable just breaks.

[10:33] Raymond J. Lee: It just stops. So we're all like, uh oh, okay. You know, it can't be that long of a delay. You know, it's happened before during tech, or you know, um, well, they'll just you know, fix something, and then it'll start up in like a couple minutes. So we get off stage, we're all a little bummed, you know, because we were going on such a uh amazing momentum. Five minutes turns to 10 minutes, turns to 30 minutes, turns to 45 minutes.

[10:57] Raymond J. Lee: They were um on the phone to um, I guess the turntable creator in the Netherlands. Corporate turntable customer service, fully customer service in Europe. Woke them up at like whatever, three in the morning over there, was trying to get Skype in or something, and it just didn't work. They couldn't get it fixed.

[11:20] Raymond J. Lee: Wow. So um in the last kind of minute um decision, Matthew Warcus, our director, and Andy too. They both were like, hey, let's just um do our I guess the first ever Broadway staged reading of a Broadway musical.

[11:34] Raymond J. Lee: Right. So they brought all the chairs from the set, all the diner booths in, did two rows of it on stage, and we just did a concert staged, you know, reading version of the show.

[11:48] Raymond J. Lee: Wow. And it was all improv. Like, you know, everyone's playing multiple characters, so you know, people kind of just brought props and just improvised. It ended up being amazing, like a really bonding experience, and kind of one of those, you know, magical three theatrical moments that you they always read about, but we get to be, we got to be a part of.

[12:06] Rory O'Malley: Right. That it's it's a moment that like obviously the the audience wants to see the show as as rehearsed and as as you know, the vision of it, but they get to show up and see something that nobody else will ever get to see.

[12:21] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, yeah, totally. That was the feedback we got on social media, and yeah, and the people that stayed for the show was just like, oh my god, that was a once in a lifetime experience.

[12:30] Rory O'Malley: And yeah, I wish I would have been there. Like that is that's kind of like what the best part of theater is is that you never know what's going to happen.

[12:38] Raymond J. Lee: And that literally took it to extreme levels. I mean it what a roller coaster of emotion where um we were all you know so high from starting the show and finally having an audience to the low of like the set breaking you know and then back to the high of performing it again and also the nerves you know we had never it was a whole new way of doing the show so we were all nervous but it was kind of good to have those nerves again you know and and again it bonded all of us.

[13:07] Raymond J. Lee: We all played with each other's energy and you know um it just showed how in sync we all were as a cast.

[13:15] Rory O'Malley: Yeah yeah no I'm sure that just made the rest of your performances that much better. It's like the ultimate theater game you you had like the most inventive zip zap zap ever put together before before a run of a show.

[13:34] Raymond J. Lee: It really was, it was like your turn, go your turn, how can I help you? Oh, let me improv this while you're improving that. Like there was one moment where, um, you know, on stage, whoever's on stage goes into slow-mo and without missing a beat, we all, uh, the entire cast just all of a sudden slow-mo'd and then the lighting guys also came with us too. They did the lighting, um, the show lighting with us. It was incredible. It was a really cool experience.

[14:01] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[14:02] Raymond J. Lee: No, that I, I mean, that's, that's Broadway. That's theater. That's, that's awesome.

[14:07] Rory O'Malley: I know. Um, but now you're in the run and, uh, it's going well. You guys got nominated for a bunch of Tonys. Yeah, what's that, what's that like? That, that, that finding out you're nominated for a bunch of Tonys? You know, it was, I mean, it was so exciting. This is my first time, um, like being in an original show. Um, really, there was that possibility, right? Yeah, last show was Honeymoon, or last show was Honeymoon. The one before was Nerds, which I'm sure we'll be talking about.

[14:24] Raymond J. Lee: Sure, um, but we'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there. Um, but the first, this is the first time just being, um, you know, having a horse in the race. And so, you know, it's such a competitive season. You know, Rory, like it's how many new musicals? 13 new musicals this season? 11? 72 new musicals? 72 horses running in the race. And, and for us, because, um, we were still a new show and our ticket sales weren't, you know, super amazing, you know, we knew we had a lot kind of running, um, with this nomination and we, we feel like we all deserved it because we've been working so hard. Audiences love the show. Um, we were hoping people, the critics and the people would like the show. So Tony morning, I, um, I woke up, I swore I was gonna sleep in and like read about it later, but I, I woke up totally, yeah, and watched it.

Um, I think we were all just kind of crossing our fingers and our show got mentioned. I freaked out. I think I have an Instagram video where I'm like screaming and shouting and, you know, in excitement. And, um, it bonded us. It also felt good because we've been working our butts off. You know, we'd been through lots of stuff, turntables breaking, Andy's injury three days before opening.

[15:46] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, right.

[15:47] Raymond J. Lee: You know, all sorts of stuff.

[15:49] Rory O'Malley: And he got injured a few days before you guys opened.

[15:52] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, and, and had to perform. What happened? It would, he, it was before the end of the show, and he had to perform for the rest of the show limping, or, or what?

[16:03] Raymond J. Lee: So we opened on a Monday. He injured himself Friday, so three days before we opened. Um, it was, which is a very, which people think about opening night as a big deal. It is, but it's just your family and friends and producers and people out in the audience. The days that are really kind of like on edge are the days leading up to opening night because that's when people come from the newspapers and the press to review it.

[16:31] Rory O'Malley: So then you know they're there.

[16:33] Raymond J. Lee: Oh yeah. Yeah, and you know they're there. You don't like want to know too many details, but you know those shows that week before you open have people in the audience who are critiquing your show.

[16:45] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, so there's like that added pressure too, where you're like, you want to have fun, but you also know you kind of be, uh, have to be on top of your game.

[16:52] Raymond J. Lee: Right. You know, you gotta make sure you, you're, you're like fully rested, your, your voice is okay, you're stretching. Um, so yeah, there was that pressure too. And I can't even imagine what Andy went through when, um, when the injury happened. But, uh, it was like once again, it became Broadway legend.

[17:11] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, you know, yeah, it was everywhere, yeah.

[17:14] Raymond J. Lee: It was, it was, I felt like I was getting like, uh, show reports about the Groundhog Day in California, you know, like I was like, oh, that's what happened today. This what's gonna happen tomorrow. But it, you know, how, what a testament to, to you as a company being able to overcome that, not just by and put out the show, but be so positive and embrace it. And, you know, it seems like you've got a really good group.

[17:44] Raymond J. Lee: Well, and it was not only the group, it was the whole theater community. Like I can't even explain, um, just all the love that Andy got and we all got as a company. I think everyone knew that we had had some issues, you know, just with the turntable in the beginning and, and first preview. But this outpouring of love from the theater community. I got texts, messages, we all did. Like it kept us, it really kept us going, you know, during a really difficult moment. So I gotta, um, give a shout out to and love to the entire theater community and everyone out there because it's, uh, it's, uh, I'm very lucky to be part of it. I think we all are, you know?

[18:17] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[18:18] Raymond J. Lee: Well then, uh, let that's a pretty good transition into us talking a little bit about, uh, uh, how we know each other. Well, it's not how we know each other, but it's how we'll, we'll always be linked. Um, we were both in a musical called Nerds.

[18:36] Rory O'Malley: Oh, good old Nerds, yeah.

[18:38] Raymond J. Lee: And we've known each other for years before that.

[18:40] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[18:40] Raymond J. Lee: Uh, and, and I think I just met you through some other people who were in Mamma Mia when you were in Mamma Mia, right?

[18:47] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah, that's how we met.

[18:48] Raymond J. Lee: And then remember we had that random splash gig together too, where we were singing Anything Goes.

[18:48] Rory O'Malley: Anything Goes.

[18:54] Raymond J. Lee: Wait, how did that come about?

[18:56] Rory O'Malley: I have no idea.

[18:58] Raymond J. Lee: Were you, you were in Anything Goes at the time, I assume, right?

[19:01] Rory O'Malley: I think I, yeah, I'm, I mean, I must have been, I think so.

[19:04] Raymond J. Lee: And were you, were you doing Mormon by then too?

[19:07] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[19:08] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, you were in Anything Goes. I was in Mormon, and we were, um, I don't know how that happened. Did you write the lyrics?

[19:16] Rory O'Malley: Who, uh, we had, we had a parody of Anything Goes, right? And it was like at a gay bar and you're the top, was it?

[19:25] Raymond J. Lee: If you're the top, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what? The rest writes itself. Right, at the gay bar song. It was me and you singing that. I think there's video of that somewhere.

[19:36] Rory O'Malley: Oh, it has to be somewhere.

[19:39] Raymond J. Lee: I'm sure it's in the archives of YouTube somewhere too. It'll show up.

[19:42] Rory O'Malley: In the can't be gay section.

[19:45] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, I think that was our first like gig singing together. But yeah, we'd known each other just like socially and I, you know, I just, I always adored you. You were always such a wonderful, I could tell you're such a wonderful soul.

[19:57] Rory O'Malley: So I remember right back at you.

[19:59] Raymond J. Lee: And that's why I, you know, like it's sometimes when you come across people who have the same vibe as you, you just, you hold on tight to them, even if you don't have a situation where you're working with them, you like tag them. I tagged you. I was like, all right, that's a good guy. I know that I'm gonna be, you know, keeping him close if I ever get the chance to work with him, great. But either way, you know, I'm glad that we were able to stay friends, yeah, do duets, campy duets, and, uh, and then we wind up in Nerds and Nerds the musical, uh, which lasted for three weeks in, uh, rehearsal room at Pearl.

[20:40] Rory O'Malley: Studios on the fourth, fourth floor, I think.

[20:42] Raymond J. Lee: Fourth floor.

[20:43] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, there's a plaque, there's a memorial plaque outside the studio.

[20:48] Raymond J. Lee: I still remember the, the hallway that I, I, I shed some tears after we got the, that news, but yeah, what an experience, Rory, huh?

[20:48] Rory O'Malley: What an experience.

[20:57] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, well, I, I think that people who listen to this podcast have heard me. I'm gonna be talking to like everyone in the Nerds cast, um, by, you know, that that's, uh, but, um, what was your experience with, with that situation with Nerds?

[21:14] Raymond J. Lee: Well, you know, I had done the, um, one of the previous, um, incarnations of it in Philadelphia.

[21:19] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[21:20] Raymond J. Lee: So I had known the show before. I knew how funny it was, how awesome it was, and I was so excited that it was finally gonna come to, um, to New York and have this audience because I just had a feeling it was gonna, you know, like just blow up all over the place and be amazing, and people were gonna find it so funny. And, um, I was so excited because I thought you were so amazing in the show, Rory. You had us howling, singing your face off, making us laugh. That one dance move where you're like running around on the floor like sideways still has me in knots. I was ready for people to see that and like have memes of it. I wonder how many shows or previews that would have lasted, but you know.

[22:03] Rory O'Malley: Some, anytime I put in choreography, you know it's the first thing on the chopping block.

[22:09] Raymond J. Lee: No, we would have fought for it. It's like that is comedy gold. I mean, you know, four months in your poor arm would be like, I think I'm gonna find an alternate audience.

[22:17] Rory O'Malley: I know, on that nice. But, um, I, and it was such a good group, man. We had a, we had a good time, you know.

[22:23] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[22:24] Rory O'Malley: And, um, and, uh, you know, everybody was just so, it already kind of felt like a, like a tight-knit group, like from the beginning. We were all like laughing at each, you know, at how funny each other, we all were learning stuff, and you know, it, it, it was a shock. I, uh, when we found out that the plug was pulled. Um, I'm, you know, proud of how we all handled it. I know it was difficult news. Um, I'm very thankful to our director, Casey, for, uh, for kind of, you know, keeping us all together and, yeah, cheering us up.

[22:56] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, I was sad for her. I thought I was so excited for everyone to see what, you know, her work as a director, right? On a, on a Broadway, uh, level. Um, but man, and, and it also, it strengthened me, you know, in a way. Um, because you just never know what's gonna happen. You know, it taught me how to kind of like to enjoy every moment, even with Groundhog, it was like, I will be happy if we make it to the theater.

[23:21] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah.

[23:23] Raymond J. Lee: Like it kind of changes your whole perspective, doesn't it?

[23:27] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and, and I don't know if you went through the, like, I'm sure we all went to the roller coaster of emotions where it was like, um, I had periods of, oh my god, how much longer can I do this? Um, parts of me were like, I should have been a doctor. And then other parts of me were like, no, Ray, you gotta keep on going. This is what you love, and this is just, this is only to keep you strong and to strengthen you as a doctor.

[23:49] Raymond J. Lee: Isn't it so like us actors? Because I have definitely done, you said, you said I should have been a doctor, you know. I would be like, oh, I should have been a lawyer. Isn't it so like us to be like, I should have been a doctor? They never are stressed or have hard days.

[24:03] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, they have the easiest job ever.

[24:05] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, yeah.

[24:07] Rory O'Malley: Like, isn't that, that's so us?

[24:10] Raymond J. Lee: I don't have to do double pirouettes on a stage. God, heart to heart surgery sounds so much more simpler.

[24:16] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[24:16] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, of course.

[24:18] Rory O'Malley: Of course. We can be a little dramatic. Um, but it's, but it's true that like, you know, something like that happening, especially when you feel like you've already seen it all in what we do, it can kind of shake you to your core and make you think, do I really want to continue putting myself out there like this?

[24:42] Raymond J. Lee: Agreed. Totally agree. There's, there's certain moments where you feel like, I don't, not like you've made it, but that you are safe. Like you have a cover. And you know, when you're auditioning for a musical or something is coming together, or when you're in workshops or, you know, you're years of your life putting around something, you're in Philadelphia working on this show. And then all of a sudden you're in a rehearsal room for a production to go to Broadway. You start to trust that that is coming to fruition.

[25:15] Rory O'Malley: Exactly.

[25:16] Raymond J. Lee: Happening and you let your guard down. You don't think like, oh, this could crumble at any moment. You, you know, you realize, hey, we could last for a month or two. Like that's, that happens to Broadway shows. But yeah, this, this sucker is gonna open.

[25:31] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like if you can't trust that, then what, what else can't you trust? It's like you start to reevaluate everything else that you kind of feel like you know about the business and, and where you can feel confident and, and vulnerable and trusting that something's gonna work out.

[25:57] Raymond J. Lee: Well, exactly. It's like I feel like we had a bunch of veterans in the company, you know, in addition to people that are making their debuts that just always broke my heart. Um, but I feel like none of us have ever experienced that, you know, like Lindsay Mendez, you, like Brian Frankart, like every Patty Mirrin, you know, we, I feel like we've all seen our share of, you know, ups and downs in the business, drama in the business, but to experience something that, um, like, you know, getting the rug pulled under you like that to that degree.

[26:24] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[26:25] Raymond J. Lee: You know, we all, it's just, it's just prove, wow, I, there's still a lot, you know. There's a lot more disappointment for us to discover.

[26:33] Rory O'Malley: Aren't we lucky?

[26:35] Raymond J. Lee: It can't be worse than that, right?

[26:36] Rory O'Malley: No, but you know, it, it made me just kind of realize again, like to, to embrace every single day, you know, every day of a rehearsal, every step of a process because again, it could be taken away from you. And that kind of also bled into life too, you know?

[26:50] Raymond J. Lee: Right. Where I'm just gonna enjoy the moment.

[26:51] Raymond J. Lee: If I want to take a vacation I'm gonna take a vacation. If I want to buy that Nintendo T-shirt at IndyNeeklo, I'm gonna buy it. Like I'm gonna—oh, that's so specific. Which has happened yesterday and that's why I mentioned that right now.

[27:05] Rory O'Malley: So you're still shopping based on nerds falling apart a year ago.

[27:10] Raymond J. Lee: Yes, I mean I shouldn't be because my budget should be changed but thank you, MasterCard. Here we go. Um let me ask you a hypothetical about it because I've wondered this. Yeah, do you think that clearly the situation above us of, you know, producing and everything wasn't good. We don't know what was—we don't really know what happened at the end of the day. You know, and frankly, I think all of us were like we don't want to know just, you know, I—it's there's no useless, yeah, yes, yeah, and we all had to move on. What I wonder sometimes is what it would have felt like if we had to close the day after opening because clearly things weren't being managed well and that would have been a real possibility.

[28:07] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[28:07] Rory O'Malley: So do you feel like we were spared in some way? Or do you feel like—do you know what I'm saying? I guess I'm only asking you this on here because I've kind of wondered that, you know, like clearly, I remember we were told in our first rehearsal that this was gonna run for decades. And I thought, oh boy, I think we have a reality problem here. I'm not saying it's not gonna, I just not sure it's the next Phantom. But hey, yeah, you know, I like positivity.

[28:41] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[28:42] Rory O'Malley: But you know, do you think clearly it wasn't something that was going to be managed or produced its way to be a hit. So yeah, do you know what I'm saying? Have you thought about that?

[29:00] Raymond J. Lee: I mean, like, it's such a—I like I love that question because I always loved like the pop hypotheticals and what ifs. Like part of me, again, like I wonder what else would have happened during the tech process, or you know, if there would have been any other dramas or scares and part of me wonders, I would have loved to get to have gotten to opening night.

[29:24] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[29:25] Raymond J. Lee: Because I at least by then, you know, I feel like a bunch of New Yorkers would have seen it.

[29:30] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[29:31] Raymond J. Lee: And then even if it did close, at least I feel like there'd be some sort of life for it after.

[29:36] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[30:49] Raymond J. Lee: You know? And just to—I just was—I feel like people got robbed out of some amazing hilarious performances. Like your performance, Mario was so amazing. Just say that again.

[30:49] Rory O'Malley: God, you were hilarious and brilliant.

[30:49] Raymond J. Lee: You're too kind. It was fun to get to do that show for three weeks in a rehearsal room because Casey and the vibe of the writers and just everyone in the room was like we were just shot out of a cannon, and like we just found out we're doing the show. Let's go for it. Let's every day just throw up whatever you can on that stage in the rehearsal room. And it just felt like, um, I don't know, like playing, like having fun.

[30:49] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, that's the hardest thing is it felt like it was meant to be. Like I did have a good feeling about the show. You know, I thought we would get to the stage. I thought people would really love it and embrace it, you know. Um, so just to have that happen, it also kind of shook me to my core because it shook kind of my gut instinct kind of reshook it back up again.

[30:49] Raymond J. Lee: Um, but the thing about—I think I would, I think I would have rather us closed like the day after opening, yeah, just so that we could—we could have seen everything to fruition, you know, and just to be like, well, we gave it a chance, you know, versus wondering—I still wonder what would happen, you know, yeah, if it came to New York.

[31:13] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, well, leaving the show.

[31:16] Raymond J. Lee: I agree, and I think that, you know, um, the writers certainly deserved it to have an opening night, uh, and maybe a cast recording and, you know, things like that that certainly would help it be produced in theaters all across the country. I'm working in San Francisco now, and I've told the story to a couple different people, and they freak out because they are, you know, obviously, you know, in Silicon Valley there, they are like we want that show here.

[31:46] Rory O'Malley: I'm always like that it should have been in San Francisco.

[31:49] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah. I think it's just like a—it was a—it's very interesting characters. I think having Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, no one's done it yet. And I think the show did it so well with the comedy. Also for a geek like me, girl, you know what a geek I am and just to have like all those references, like having, you know, a lightsaber duel like I think—I think it—oh, I still have, um, um, animated, um, like videos that I took from rehearsal that I still really—that Ella actually watches really on the phone from there.

[32:21] Rory O'Malley: Um, but yeah, I think there would have been a really good audience for it and especially with the whole nerd community I think would have been really—

[32:21] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, I agree.

[32:31] Rory O'Malley: You know, good anthem.

[32:31] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, but um, so you brought up Ella. Yeah, uh, that's my girl.

[32:31] Rory O'Malley: That's your girl. Um, you know, and certainly why I want to talk to you is because you're a family man, you know, and I know that that is something that's been very important to you and you know, it's something that is important to me that I'm striving for and I've talked to you many times about your journey to Ella and we don't have to—we don't have to get in all the details of it.

[33:02] Raymond J. Lee: Oh yeah, whatever you're comfortable with.

[33:03] Rory O'Malley: But I think that really what I would love to hear about is how you live as an actor and be a dad and, you know, go through the nerds and the Groundhog Day, the ups and the downs, and stay sane knowing that you're also providing for another human being.

[33:30] Raymond J. Lee: It has been here. I'm gonna run back to the room. Sorry, Royal. Grab my charger, take it on my phone. Phone going down. Um, there we go. Like being a dad in this business, and I can't wait. I can't wait for, um, for you to experience it. Or because it's such a—it's so much fun.

[33:51] Rory O'Malley: Um, it's a lot of work, it's a lot of juggling. You know, um, I'm lucky because I got um advice from a lot of kind of um actors in the business who are juggling both parenthood and work, and so they would always tell me, you know, make sure to put them first. It'll be hard. The um, the temptation will be there to keep on taking the jobs and the career stuff, but your kids are gonna grow up in a blink of a blink of an eye. So make sure to always choose them first.

[34:19] Raymond J. Lee: Um with Ella. I guess yeah, I can start from the beginning with her adoption story. My husband and I, during Anything Goes, we knew we wanted to have children, and we knew we wanted to adopt. So we went through an organization, Spence Chapin. Um, their headquarters are on the Upper East Side, and we went through all the paperwork, all the home studies, and two years later, Ella's—Ella came home. Ella's birth mom picked us from a, you know, catalog of 60 waiting birth parents, and it's an open adoption, so we're in constant communication with Ella's birth mom, who's awesome.

[34:57] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[34:57] Raymond J. Lee: And, uh, we literally had 21 hour notice that she was coming home.

[35:02] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[35:03] Raymond J. Lee: Which was, um, crazy.

[35:06] Rory O'Malley: And you'd been waiting for two years.

[35:06] Raymond J. Lee: Two years. Two years, and all of a sudden, 21 hour notice. Like we had like a period of like two weeks where, um, you know, there's a possibility of us being picked because we had, you know, interviewed for her. The whole process is fully audition, callback, final callback, book the job. Um, and so we had had our final callback with Ella's birth mom, and we knew that she wanted to pick us as Ella's birth, uh, as Ella's parents, but she needed to sign the final documents.

[35:39] Rory O'Malley: And so we having had an experience before where um birth parents picked us and then pulled out, right?

[35:47] Raymond J. Lee: We knew not to kind of get our hopes up yet.

[35:50] Rory O'Malley: Sure.

[35:50] Raymond J. Lee: And just to kind of protect our hearts. Um, but then Ella's birth mom signed the documents, and then the next day we picked her up. And yeah, we've—she's been a little girl ever since, you know. She came home at six weeks old.

[36:07] Rory O'Malley: And yeah, it's been—oh yeah, and you know, you've—I’ve got to be a little bit more than a little bit.

[36:11] Raymond J. Lee: Oh, I've seen the video. I know the video from when you met her.

[36:14] Rory O'Malley: Like, like, yeah, no, she's to me the star of my Instagram feed.

[36:20] Raymond J. Lee: Um, she's gonna get her own account.

[36:23] Rory O'Malley: I always wonder about that.

[36:26] Raymond J. Lee: Her own allergine account.

[36:28] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[36:29] Raymond J. Lee: Um, I think she has one and it's yours.

[36:32] Rory O'Malley: Uh no, she is—she's just so gorgeous, so sweet, and clearly very, very happy. And I mean, the—the Gerald and I are starting our own journey with that process, and you are without a doubt, um someone who I look up to and see how well it's worked for you and gives me hope.

[36:58] Raymond J. Lee: And but it's funny because I keep—I'm starting to approach it as an actor in the way that you just did, and my husband is not an actor, he's not in the business, and he's like, Would you stop acting like this is a callback, like you just call it? It is not, you know, because like anytime something has come up, I'm like jumping at the chance, and he's saying, No, that is not our plan. This is the plan. This is not an audition that's like the one time that it's gonna come through.

[37:31] Raymond J. Lee: And uh it's hard though because we know what it's like. I'm trying to manage my disappointment and my hopes uh in the same way that I do with my career.

[37:45] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, it—it’s a hard man, it's a roller coaster. Like I mean, our jobs are such a roller coaster with those emotions, and then the adoption process becomes a roller coaster like that too.

[37:57] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[37:57] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[37:57] Raymond J. Lee: And even I guess parenthood is a roller coaster in a different way.

[38:03] Raymond J. Lee: Where you're just always, you know, A, you're always making sure they're alive. That's like the hardest thing.

[38:06] Rory O'Malley: Step one.

[38:10] Raymond J. Lee: Step one, make sure they're alive. Um, but it's like the added—there are moments, um, especially um with auditions and before Groundhog Day, that I was wondering, can I keep on surviving as a dad and as an actor?

[38:26] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[38:27] Raymond J. Lee: Because it was—it's hard. It's hard because um we put Ella into daycare, a to socialize her, you know, give her some friends, but also because it's always hard to—it was hard to find last minute babysitters.

[38:38] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[38:38] Raymond J. Lee: You know, if you had a callback or if you had a gig the next day, or got a big thing. And you don't want—you want something so a routine.

[38:45] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[38:46] Raymond J. Lee: I feel like as actors we love a routine because we—there's so much that's out of our hands. And it's good for her to be able to like show up doing the same thing rather than who knows.

[38:57] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[38:58] Raymond J. Lee: Who knows all the trouble that she already gets into. Um, and I feel—I don't know if it's just me as an actor dad that has gone through it. I'm sure other people have too, where I sometimes wondered is it—I—it would be nice if, you know, my husband Robbie went out, did the job, and I was a house husband. I got to like clean and make lunches and take her to soccer practice, and there are still parts of me like that, but then I always re—I realize and friends have told me that it's important for Ella to see her daddy um pursuing his dream.

[39:30] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[39:30] Raymond J. Lee: You know, and working hard for his dream. And that keeps me going because I want to make sure that my little girl um has a dream and works hard for it and sees both her dads doing that too.

[39:44] Rory O'Malley: So that keeps me going.

[39:45] Raymond J. Lee: Right.

[39:46] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, no, absolutely.

[39:48] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, and I think it's definitely something that I think about a lot and that I talked about on the podcast with other parents, is that when you have a child and then it's like not your dream and your ambition has always been the epicenter of so much of your day, your focus. And obviously, you know, you get married and then that becomes totally different.

[40:16] Raymond J. Lee: But it's it can't be any comparison to adding what a child brings to your life. You know, my husband doesn't need me as much as a child will need me. I mean, my husband barely needs me at all. But I'm like, my I need my husband so much, he's like, oh, stop being needy this time, baby. I already have one child.

[40:40] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god, we are the same person.

[40:42] Raymond J. Lee: We really are, right? I love it, Roy. And just wait too. Like when you become a dad, I'm so excited, your priorities will change.

[40:48] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[40:49] Raymond J. Lee: Like you'll feel it. There'll be this shift. And in a way, too, like for when it comes to auditions, it just kind of not, you know, like relaxes, not relaxes me, but like I realize that that audition is not the end all.

[41:04] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[41:04] Raymond J. Lee: I know that that's a job. If I don't get it, that's okay. Because when I go home, I have a more important job at home that is my world. So it really does change your priorities and it almost changes your energy and your psyche. It's very interesting.

[41:20] Rory O'Malley: Right. Yeah, I think that I definitely can see how that's the case. You know, any time I've ever like stopped obsessing that growing my life in any way is what going to take over my career, I realize that's a sickness. That's like that's not healthy, and that life is big enough to fit your career, your ambition, and the rest of life, the rest of you know of what what it has to offer, and certainly having a kid is a big part of what I want.

[41:55] Raymond J. Lee: Do you ever feel like too like sometimes life like when you want it, it doesn't happen, but when you're not expecting it is when stuff happens.

[42:05] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[42:06] Raymond J. Lee: Like I think also with you know, before Ella came along, I was always, you know, hungry and going to every audition and being like, oh, I want to get to that, you know, that that that level that like Matthew Broderick's on, and you know, like you know, doing the networking gigs. And once Ella came, priorities changed, but then you know, and then honeymoon happened, and I you know, I got the roles where I started singing songs, and Groundhog Day happened, and but you know, in a way, like I'm not hungry for it. I'm not using that to define who I am. It's just like I would have done before Ella came along, you know.

[42:42] Rory O'Malley: So well, it's like that thing where they say to you when you're starting out, if you go into an audition and you're too hungry for the job, they'll smell it on you and you won't get it.

[42:56] Raymond J. Lee: And that always drove me crazy because I was like, how can I walk into an audition, prepare for it, and not desperately want it, you know, in front of people who I'm asking for it. Uh but it's true, like that's not just in auditions, it's in life, like when you are able to not feel like everything is riding on this opportunity because your life is much more full and rich, and then all of a sudden you start getting those opportunities.

[43:28] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and also like too with talking with people, having kids and like being a parent bonds you. Um, like I remember during Honeymoon, Jason and I, Jason Robert Brown and I would just talk about daughters and I'll get like advice from him. You know, we weren't talking about the business, we weren't schmoozing, we were just two dads just trying to like talk about how to survive fatherhood.

[43:50] Raymond J. Lee: Right. And that was that that's what's fun. Like being a parent really bonds you with people, and oh my god, the stories alone. Just all the stories that we were going to encounter as a dad. I'm so excited for you and Gerald to have to be daddies.

[44:05] Rory O'Malley: Thank you. We are too. I mean, we're not, you know, we're not there yet, but we've definitely we've we've gotten through the first major part of like getting approved and homesteading and everything. So we're getting there.

[44:21] Raymond J. Lee: Take your vacations, boo.

[44:23] Rory O'Malley: Take your vacation. I mean now, that's what everyone keeps saying.

[44:25] Raymond J. Lee: Um but okay. So let's let's uh we we didn't really start at the beginning. We're kind of going backwards, which is fine. Um how did you get started in theater? How did you get and and what's your story of where you grew up and and all that jazz?

[44:45] Raymond J. Lee: Uh so I'm an army brat. So I was born in Atlanta, Georgia. My dad worked for the military, so I went to six elementary schools, four middle schools.

[44:55] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god, wow.

[44:58] Raymond J. Lee: I lived in um California, Virginia, um, Georgia, New York, Korea for three years in elementary school. So it was a crazy upbringing. Um but uh my parents were both born in Seoul, Korea, but immigrated here in the 60s and 70s um to pursue their dreams, and then they had me and my brother while my dad was a PhD student at Georgia Tech.

[45:23] Rory O'Malley: And yeah, and I, you know, I grew up loving music. I played violin as a kid, typical Korean American kid doing honors orchestra. Um but I always loved theater, I always loved TV, I loved the entertainment industry. Um, and then um I went to high school in DC, did theater there, and then went to college at Northwestern University.

[45:46] Raymond J. Lee: But I was a pre-med chemistry major starting out because I was gonna be a doctor because my parents were like, You're not gonna be an actor. Kids will stop on the streets, you're gonna be a doctor. Um, wannabe tap dancing doctor.

[46:06] Rory O'Malley: And uh yeah, I did that for about a year and a half. I remember um taking Orgo, organic chemistry sophomore year, and looking at the lab, being like, I hate this, I can't do this.

[46:16] Raymond J. Lee: I would I'd rather be in Once on This Island.

[46:20] Rory O'Malley: Um I switched majors, I auditioned for shows, Once on This Island was my first show at Northwestern.

[46:30] Raymond J. Lee: Um, but I was still a film major. I transferred to the School of Speech, but um became a radio television film major. That way I could still audition for the music theater program and be a part of that.

[46:42] Rory O'Malley: So that's how I um went through college. My parents didn't find out I transferred until they saw it on my report card.

[46:51] Raymond J. Lee: No.

[46:52] Rory O'Malley: They were so they're like, what is this school of speech?

[46:56] Raymond J. Lee: I'm like, uh, I transferred.

[47:00] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[47:01] Raymond J. Lee: With the promise, I was like, oh, I'm gonna be an entertainment lawyer now, I can't be a doctor.

[47:05] Rory O'Malley: And they're like, okay, good, you'll be a lawyer, you know.

[47:10] Raymond J. Lee: Wow.

[47:12] Rory O'Malley: So you obviously you knew that that was gonna be something that would be difficult for them to accept. Do you think that because they had to work so hard to get to this country and that and establish themselves that like taking a chance on being an actor was just too much for them to comprehend or yeah, I think they just they just didn't know they thought being an actor was you know taking you know um little jobs here and there and starving on the streets and there's not enough money, and especially as an Asian actor, that was one thing they were always worried about.

[47:45] Raymond J. Lee: Like there's not enough parts for you. How are you gonna survive in this business? Uh there's no Asians on TV, except for you know like Margaret Cho. So why would you even think about it? And you know, my parents are both science-minded, um, and all they knew was science, science, science. And so they didn't know much about theater and what you could do in this industry.

[48:09] Rory O'Malley: Right. You know.

[48:10] Raymond J. Lee: Right. I mean and I'm I still don't know what I can do with this industry. Like how can I still trying to figure that out.

[48:23] Rory O'Malley: So yeah, I mean, pay it's hard for all parents, but I can imagine that you know, your parents how much they had to sacrifice and put on the line just to get here to establish themselves here. You know, it's that's pretty scary.

[48:34] Raymond J. Lee: Um it's a very typical um Korean or even Asian, you know, um, situation where the parents just, you know, all they know is that doctors and lawyers succeed, or those are successful jobs. I think it travels from the motherland.

[48:49] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[48:50] Raymond J. Lee: So um, you know, I have a lot of friends still to this day who, you know, follow that road, and they always turn to me and say, Man, Ray, like we wish we could have, you know, I wish I could have been a chef, or I wish I could have been a race car driver, or you know, a veterinarian. Like it it and that's something that I always tell, especially Asian kids, you know, or uh all kids out there whether they got to I talk to at this stage to where I just say, pursue what you want to pursue because you gotta be happy in the end, you know?

[49:20] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[49:21] Raymond J. Lee: So yeah, yeah. And there's gonna be days that are hard that are gonna be days that are great, as we have gone over in in this podcast already. But like at the end of the day, you know that you took the chance and you're doing what you love and you're not staring at the organic chemistry lab.

[49:44] Rory O'Malley: Like the six-hour organic chemistry lab.

[49:46] Raymond J. Lee: I was like, oh hell no, I can't, I can't. There was some cute football players in that collab, but that was not enough to keep me going.

[49:56] Rory O'Malley: Then you know you didn't like it if the cute football players weren't enough.

[50:00] Raymond J. Lee: They kept me going for at least half the quarter, and the other half I was like, oh, I can't do this anymore.

[50:07] Rory O'Malley: Um okay, so let's touch a little bit on on being uh an Asian actor and and um what has your experience been? What have been some of the difficulties and and also just like your there's I think a lot of headway and a lot of discussion and dialogue has been made recently about casting.

[50:32] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah. Um and casting Asian roles with Asians, go figure.

[50:39] Rory O'Malley: Um go figure.

[50:40] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah. What is your experience been as being an Asian American? You know, it's there's been lots of ups and ups and downs being uh, you know, with um being an Asian actor. Um, I have to first kind of give Matt props to Groundhog Day.

[50:55] Rory O'Malley: Okay.

[50:56] Raymond J. Lee: For I think um it is one of the shows on Broadway that does diverse casting right. Um, I play small town Punxsutawney Drunk Guy at a bar that was previously Caucasian in the movie. Um Larry the cameraman is my buddy um Vishal, who is also Asian, he's South Asian. Um we have lots of different colors, shapes, sizes in this company, and that's what Matthew wanted.

[51:26] Rory O'Malley: He wanted um a diverse group.

[51:29] Raymond J. Lee: And me being in the company, there's never a reason for me to be Asian, you know. I don't play like Asian tourists here or this or that. Like I'm never in an accent. He just wanted to cast the right people, and he, you know, and he cast a wide net.

[51:45] Rory O'Malley: And I'm very proud that Groundhog Day is so diverse.

[52:29] Raymond J. Lee: Um but you know, before that, I have I have gone in for you know stereotypical roles. I have, you know, like in Anything Goes, I played um Brother John, who like in theater history was not one of the best well-received Asian roles, those two roles alone. Um Kathleen was very sensitive about it, Kathleen Marshall, our director, and you I remember she took me and um Andrew Kao aside and said, Okay, how do we not be racist with these roles?

[52:29] Rory O'Malley: How do you kiss people off?

[52:29] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah. Well, and it's tricky, especially with material that was written at a different time.

[52:29] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[52:29] Raymond J. Lee: And I I have to get it to give credit to just the whole writing team too. We had one line in that show about in the early on where it was about like starching the reverend's shirts or something, some dry cleaning reference that we would we'd used for like one show, felt tingly, and the writers rewrote it um so I've been very lucky to work with creative teams that are very racially sensitive um but you know there have been the auditions where they ask me to do a generic Asian accent and I do air quotes because there's just no such thing as a generic Asian accent.

[53:00] Rory O'Malley: There's a Chinese accent, a Korean accent, but generic Asian um you know there have been parts or auditions I've turned down because I'll read a script and say I'm not too comfortable with that.

[53:11] Raymond J. Lee: Right. And then of course in Hollywood you see all the the whitewashing that's happened you know um with um like what was it? Um Emma Stone playing a Hoppa Hawaiian girl in Aloha and and other things here and there. Um even um there's that movie 21 about the kids that do um that play at a casino I think Kevin Spacey's in it and it's all white actors but for one Asian.

[53:39] Rory O'Malley: Really?

[53:41] Raymond J. Lee: So it's you know even Matt Damon in that The Great Wall or the Chinese movie he did.

[53:47] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[53:47] Raymond J. Lee: You know there's a lot of headway I think we're getting there.

[53:51] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[53:51] Raymond J. Lee: I think we have a lot of awesome pioneers out there.

[53:54] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[53:54] Raymond J. Lee: Um that are leading the way like I love Constance her Twitter makes me laugh.

[54:00] Rory O'Malley: She's such a Yeah she's funny.

[54:02] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah she's such a funny yeah she's great talented so good.

[54:08] Rory O'Malley: Yeah and I mean I feel I feel like there's a generation of Asian American actors who are basically like uh this is not acceptable anymore.

[54:20] Raymond J. Lee: Things have to change, and here's how we're gonna do it.

[54:24] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, and they're also leading that charge by just being amazing.

[54:30] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, like Telly, Telly Leong in in Transit.

[54:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, he didn't have to be Asian, he was just an American guy.

[54:35] Raymond J. Lee: Right.

[54:36] Rory O'Malley: And so I I love Telly, and I was always like, Yes, like thank you for for showing that Asians can sing their face off because in Godspell he was seeing his face off.

[54:45] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, he always and and yeah, I'm I feel like we're we're getting there.

[54:51] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, that's what I feel like.

[54:52] Raymond J. Lee: No, I absolutely've come a long way, have a lot of further to go.

[54:59] Rory O'Malley: I feel like I you know, I sometimes I talk about this with um with gay parts and gay actors.

[55:06] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[55:06] Rory O'Malley: Is sometimes, you know, it's it's not the same, but a lot of times when they cast a straight person to play a gay person, they'll say they couldn't cast a gay person because they needed to green light the movie, they needed a name.

[55:24] Raymond J. Lee: And I always call bullshit on that because it's not like people's names become household names out of the blue, they become household names because the industry decides to make them household names by giving those people a chance by give by putting them out there.

[55:49] Rory O'Malley: Uh so if there isn't uh a group of Asian American actors who can open a film or headline a TV show or open a Broadway show, it's not because the talent isn't there, it's because the work hasn't been put in to make those names as big as they should be.

[56:09] Raymond J. Lee: I agree.

[56:09] Rory O'Malley: I'm I'm right there with you too, where it's like when a straight actor plays a gay character, it's you know applauded and praised.

[56:16] Raymond J. Lee: Right.

[56:16] Rory O'Malley: Like Jared Leto and in the in I forgot what movie that was.

[56:20] Raymond J. Lee: Um I'm like, why can't a gay man play a gay character?

[56:24] Rory O'Malley: Like why why is that such a stigma?

[56:26] Raymond J. Lee: And I think there is definitely headway with with that whole cause.

[56:29] Rory O'Malley: And I'm proud that there's so many out actors right now that speak up about it and you know, are proving that also gay actors can play straight.

[56:39] Raymond J. Lee: Wow, what a concept, you know.

[56:41] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[56:42] Raymond J. Lee: It can happen.

[56:43] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[56:44] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[56:46] Rory O'Malley: No, I mean it's it's it's interesting to me because I think that casting I think we're realizing more and more how casting is part of the storytelling.

[56:58] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[56:59] Rory O'Malley: You know, and like I say, with Hamilton, one of the most powerful storytelling tools is the casting, and it's never talked about in the show.

[57:11] Raymond J. Lee: But it it's it, and you know, you have young people of color coming to see Hamilton and seeing George Washington and leaving saying, I can't believe George Washington looked like me.

[57:28] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[57:28] Raymond J. Lee: And realizing that the American story is their story.

[57:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[57:32] Raymond J. Lee: George Washington is their first president, you know, and it's it's so powerful.

[57:40] Rory O'Malley: And I think that it's it's not just it, it's part of the creative process is casting.

[57:46] Raymond J. Lee: And it's part of the storytelling.

[57:49] Rory O'Malley: So it's important to get it right.

[57:51] Raymond J. Lee: I think once the young genera younger kids or the young generations come see the shows and see that there's someone like them on stage, they realize like, oh, there's room for me.

[58:02] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[58:03] Raymond J. Lee: You know.

[58:03] Rory O'Malley: That's how I felt about rent.

[58:05] Raymond J. Lee: Like Rent was the show that got me started because I thought I saw, you know, I think people that I would be friends with and that kind of represent who I am, and I thought, oh, there's room for me.

[58:15] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[58:16] Raymond J. Lee: So it's so it's so important.

[58:18] Rory O'Malley: Like Roy, do you ever feel like you ever do you get do you get put into a box too?

[58:22] Raymond J. Lee: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[58:25] Rory O'Malley: Well, I always felt like after Mormon, it was interesting because I was getting, you know, called in for a bunch of gay roles, which is of you know, great.

[58:36] Raymond J. Lee: I I'm I love playing gay characters, and I don't have a problem with it, but a lot of the gay characters were uh snarky.

[58:48] Rory O'Malley: And and and one, I'm not really good at that.

[58:51] Raymond J. Lee: Um there are a lot of other guys who are great at it and are so funny, and I'm just not great at that.

[58:59] Rory O'Malley: Um but what I thought was so like sad about that is that if people saw my character Elder McKinley in the Book of Mormon, and they thought he's he's gay, so he's good at being snarky, they did not see a snarky performance in the sweet, you know, naive, like happy Elder McKinley.

[59:28] Raymond J. Lee: You know what I mean?

[59:29] Rory O'Malley: So I thought it's kind of like it's a really big leap.

[59:34] Raymond J. Lee: Like, yes, Elder McKinley was a closeted, openly closeted um man and and and gay, but there was nothing but sweetness and joy and love coming from him, even a way that like was hard to like put out because every day, you know, doing that that smile uh was a lot.

[59:55] Rory O'Malley: But you know, then getting called in for snarky negative characters based off of that performance because it was a gay person.

[1:00:04] Raymond J. Lee: I was always like, that doesn't make any sense.

[1:00:08] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:00:09] Raymond J. Lee: Oh, I I didn't even think about that.

[1:00:11] Rory O'Malley: That that's like eye-opening to me, you know, kind of what you have to go through because you know, hey, I like being called in.

[1:00:21] Raymond J. Lee: I like being, you know, getting to have auditions, and I'm not saying that I don't want to go in for auditions for snarky gay characters.

[1:00:30] Rory O'Malley: It just was funny to me that if you're gonna uh basically typecast me as something, you would think it would be more based on the quality of the character that I was playing, rather than just the fact of what the sexual orientation of the character was.

[1:00:52] Raymond J. Lee: Can he be the sweet straight guy?

[1:00:54] Rory O'Malley: You know, you know, yeah, like it's it's it you know, it's even though Elder McKinley was certainly gay, it wasn't uh it wasn't that that you know, stereotypical snarky um thing.

[1:01:12] Raymond J. Lee: So yeah, it was it was definitely eye-opening to me because it was like came up so much right after that that I was like, oh geez.

[1:01:21] Rory O'Malley: People just know that I played a gay character, so anytime gay is there, it's like call in Rory, even though that was so far from what I did.

[1:01:32] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:01:33] Rory O'Malley: That's so interesting.

[1:01:34] Raymond J. Lee: I feel like that's happened now that like you point that out.

[1:01:37] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:01:37] Raymond J. Lee: It's like, oh yeah, there have been moments where they're like, yeah, can you be can you be that prissy queen, you know?

[1:01:43] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:01:44] Raymond J. Lee: And you're like, okay.

[1:01:47] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:01:48] Raymond J. Lee: Sure.

[1:01:48] Rory O'Malley: Actually, I didn't realize like that just kind of puts two and two together.

[1:01:52] Raymond J. Lee: Like, oh, that is like a like a stereotype that exists right now.

[1:01:57] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:01:58] Raymond J. Lee: I remember I read a script uh for a pilot audition, and or the the breakdown, the description of what the character was did not say that he was gay.

[1:02:09] Rory O'Malley: It didn't say anything.

[1:02:10] Raymond J. Lee: And I was like, oh wow, you know, I'm going in for a straight roll and read through the script, and on like three quarters of the way through the script, he said, and I'm gay.

[1:02:21] Rory O'Malley: You know, it was like this revelation.

[1:02:24] Raymond J. Lee: And I I I one, at first I was like, oh my god, of course, you know, I think I'm reading the straight guy role, and then they're like, you know, they it's a reveal, it's a surprise even to me.

[1:02:34] Rory O'Malley: But when I went into the audition, I said to the casting directors, thank you so much for not putting that he was gay in the breakdown.

[1:02:45] Raymond J. Lee: Because it it freed me from just thinking like, what do you want?

[1:02:52] Rory O'Malley: When you say that somebody's gay in a breakdown, yeah, and there's nothing to do with them having sex with anyone or their any of their relationships, it's like, what do you need from me when I'm doing a scene about getting someone coffee and then gay?

[1:03:10] Raymond J. Lee: Like, what is it that you feel needs to how is that told in the scene of me preparing coffee?

[1:03:20] Rory O'Malley: Do you feel like you can be yourself more?

[1:03:22] Raymond J. Lee: Because I know if if I see an audition that says any ethnicity, they're just looking for who I am as a person, you know, or whatever frees me up to be more myself.

[1:03:31] Rory O'Malley: Sure.

[1:03:31] Raymond J. Lee: Right.

[1:03:32] Rory O'Malley: Because you you don't, you know, I forget that I'm gay.

[1:03:39] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[1:03:39] Rory O'Malley: You know, like I don't walk around thinking about it all the time.

[1:03:43] Raymond J. Lee: And so when somebody like gives you uh of uh an audition and it says the the same thing over and over again, you're like, oh, yeah, I get oh, I am this, yeah, but like this is just one part of me, and it's it's uh it's it's putting yourself in a putting having somebody put you in a box that is yeah weird because you're like I I am that and I don't even know what that box is or what that's supposed to be.

[1:04:12] Rory O'Malley: Isn't it funny like when it's like gay, fit in this box, and you're like, but I'm one of those gay guys that loves cargo shorts and sandals and like to eat French fries.

[1:04:21] Raymond J. Lee: Is there a box for that?

[1:04:22] Rory O'Malley: Because I love that box.

[1:04:25] Raymond J. Lee: Oh my god.

[1:04:26] Rory O'Malley: This is why we're the same person.

[1:04:28] Raymond J. Lee: It's just my husband will not let me wear cargo shorts anymore, though.

[1:04:33] Rory O'Malley: Oh wait, just wait till you have a kid.

[1:04:36] Raymond J. Lee: You could fit so much crap in those pockets, boo.

[1:04:39] Rory O'Malley: Oh, I miss my pockets.

[1:04:41] Raymond J. Lee: Oh no, all these like cute little shorts that I can't, I mean I can't fit anything in them.

[1:04:50] Rory O'Malley: They don't cover enough of my milky white tree trunk thighs.

[1:04:56] Raymond J. Lee: Your soft, your soft skin, your soft, beautiful skin, girl.

[1:05:00] Rory O'Malley: That's yeah.

[1:05:01] Raymond J. Lee: Rob, I go to bed.

[1:05:02] Rory O'Malley: This is horrible.

[1:05:03] Raymond J. Lee: I go to bed in cargo shorts.

[1:05:05] Rory O'Malley: And Robbie is always so angry.

[1:05:08] Raymond J. Lee: Why you did you just pass out or you think of them as pajamas?

[1:05:12] Rory O'Malley: I think of them as both outerwear, indoor, and pajamas.

[1:05:17] Raymond J. Lee: I literally have three different cargo shorts.

[1:05:19] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[1:05:19] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah, it's jealous.

[1:05:21] Rory O'Malley: I'm I'm incredibly jealous.

[1:05:24] Raymond J. Lee: I miss my cargo shorts.

[1:05:26] Rory O'Malley: It's so comfortable.

[1:05:27] Raymond J. Lee: Do it.

[1:05:27] Rory O'Malley: Just be you.

[1:05:28] Raymond J. Lee: They have different colors now besides brown.

[1:05:30] Rory O'Malley: They have green.

[1:05:33] Raymond J. Lee: Yeah.

[1:05:34] Rory O'Malley: Maybe, maybe I will.

[1:05:35] Raymond J. Lee: Maybe right now I'll I'll go on Amazon and secretly deliver a new pair.

[1:05:42] Rory O'Malley: All my other old pairs were destroyed anyway.

[1:05:45] Raymond J. Lee: I think Gerald burned them.

[1:05:48] Rory O'Malley: Um I thank you so much for talking with me this morning.

[1:05:52] Raymond J. Lee: Uh I I just, you know, I I've I've known you for a long time. I respect you, and and your family is something that I really look up to, and so much of what this podcast is about the business, but you know, more importantly, it's about how to live the life that you want while you were doing, you know, pursuing your dream.

[1:06:16] Rory O'Malley: So I I adore you so much. I think you're amazing. You're always an inspiration to me too.

[1:06:20] Raymond J. Lee: And I'm so I'm just always I always love keeping up to date with your fierceness.

[1:06:25] Rory O'Malley: So you're always in my heart. I love you right now.

[1:06:27] Raymond J. Lee: And uh I'm really excited for the day that we work together and we actually open on Broadway.

[1:06:34] Rory O'Malley: Can we do a TV show in Hawaii together?

[1:06:36] Raymond J. Lee: That would be really cute.

[1:06:38] Rory O'Malley: That sounds good.

[1:06:39] Raymond J. Lee: You know, in our cargo shorts, that would be perfect.

[1:06:42] Rory O'Malley: So dreams.

[1:06:43] Raymond J. Lee: That's the stuff of dreams.

[1:06:45] Rory O'Malley: Our husband's worst nightmare, but it would pay the it'd pay the rent, so they'd be they'd be happy.

[1:06:49] Raymond J. Lee: There you go.

[1:06:50] Rory O'Malley: All right.

[1:06:51] Raymond J. Lee: Nice talking with you.

[1:06:52] Rory O'Malley: Cole Roy, thanks so much.

[1:06:55] Raymond J. Lee: Audition side job, swimming upstream.

[1:06:58] Rory O'Malley: Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.