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#280 - Six the Musical

"Divorced, Beheaded, Died, Divorced, Beheaded, Survived!" Grab your history books and girl pop albums because this week we're diving into the West End/Broadway sensation "Six the Musical." This has been a long time coming and you won't believe our wild takes!.. Read More

1 h 15 mins
Jan 18

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"Divorced, Beheaded, Died, Divorced, Beheaded, Survived!" Grab your history books and girl pop albums because this week we're diving into the West End/Broadway sensation "Six the Musical." This has been a long time coming and you won't believe our wild takes!


Hosts: Jesse McAnally & Andrew DeWolf

Podcast Edited By: Andrew DeWolf

Theme Songs: Robyn Nash of IOU Music UK

Keeper of the Cheese: Juliet Antonio

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00:06 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Hello, I'm Jesse McEnally.

00:08 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

And I'm Andrew DeWolf and I'm Liz Eston.

00:11 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And welcome to Musical Switches, a podcast where I try to get Andrew and Liz to like musical theater. How are we all doing?

00:17 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

today. Oh, I got one thing to say Six more like sucks.

00:22 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

What a great start. Play the music. We're done.

00:26 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Thank you, that's your one joke for the episode. We're done now.

00:32 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, we're serious now.

00:35 - Liz Esten (Host)

We're getting into it.

00:37 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Man, we could have done bits. We could have been like no, I'm the best queen, no, I'm the best. No, we just sucks.

00:46 - Liz Esten (Host)

I am not of that opinion.

00:48 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It was the laziest option, so we took it.

00:51 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

That's the cheese way, that's the musicals of cheese way, in case you haven't picked up the lowest hanging fruit.

00:58 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

we pick that.

01:00 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

In fact we are that.

01:02 - Liz Esten (Host)

We are that as people.

01:04 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

We are three of the lowest hanging fruits out there.

01:08 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Mine hang pretty damn low.

01:10 - Liz Esten (Host)

Mine don't hang as low.

01:11 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

See, that was a low hanging fruit joke right there.

01:15 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Man, I wish my head would just come off after this conversation. We're talking about six.

01:21 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Jess, we're getting a divorce.

01:24 - Liz Esten (Host)

And I'm gonna die, I guess. Okay, divorced, beheaded Died.

01:28 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Divorced, beheaded, survived and tonight we are.

01:58 - Speaker 7 (Other)

Listen up, let me tell you a story, a story that you think you've heard before.

02:05 - Speaker 4 (Other)

We know, you know our names and our fame and our faces Know all about the glories and the disgraces. I'm done, cause all this time I'll be just one word in a stupid rest. So I picked up a pen and a microphone.

02:22 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

History's about to get overthrown Um six is a musical written by Toby Marlowe and Lucy Moss, with music and lyrics by Toby Marlowe and Lucy Moss, based on the wives of Henry VIII Six began previews on the February 13th of 2020. I wonder what it's gonna happen soon at the Lena Horne Theater, then known as the Brooks Atkinson. On the day of its scheduled Broadway opening, march 12th 2020, what happened? All Broadway theaters were closed due to the novel COVID-19 pandemic. This would resume Broadway previews on the 17th of September 2001 and it officially opened on October 3rd Sorry, 2021. They went back in time. Did I say it opened in 2001? They went back in time and opened with you're in town.

03:09 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Oh no, september 20, 2001. Um, it officially opened on October 3rd 2021.

03:25 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Um, the plot of six is divorce beheaded die, Divorce beheaded survive. From Tudor Queen to Pop Icon, the six wives of Henry VIII take the microphone to remix 500 years of historical heartbreak into a euphoric celebration of the 21st century girl power. And this new original musical is the global sensation that everyone is losing their head over. Um, yeah, that was obviously their press release. So six, we have cock teased our audience for this show for a good while. Even when we did our live show, I made a joke that instead of Pop Icon, we were supposed to talk about six.

04:04 - Liz Esten (Host)

Which we weren't.

04:05 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

We weren't. I was just being a little bit of an asshole.

04:08 - Liz Esten (Host)

He picked Pop Icon first.

04:10 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I did Because I knew if we talked about six we would have gotten booed and possibly vegetables thrown at us.

04:16 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, Um, I don't know how to feel about six, so I like a lot of aspects of it and I don't like other aspects of it. But I feel like the stuff that I like is stuff that's like actually good and the stuff that I don't like is like my own personal opinion, if that makes any sense.

04:41 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yes, so you can appreciate for what it is, but it's not your kind of thing.

04:47 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, that's kind of what I think. I think that it is technically very good.

04:54 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I would even call it perfect.

04:56 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It accomplishes basically everything it needs to and it's not overly long in any way. There's nothing you would even cut. There's nothing that's like why is this here? But at the same time I'm kind of groaning. Every single time they make a historical pun or something you know. I'm just like. This is just like Hamilton.

05:19 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

It is not just like. Hamilton. Andrew, it is just like cats.

05:24 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I did send that to you.

05:26 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

It is the exact premise of cats.

05:29 - Liz Esten (Host)

It literally is the premise of cats.

05:31 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, a bunch of people sing about their names and then they decide who wins, and no one really wins. The only losers are the audience and cats, and cats yes, of course, and cats.

05:44 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

So yeah, six is in a weird place for me. I think that I really like the vibe of it in that it's like a concert. I think that that's really interesting and I don't think we've seen a different show do that yet. Maybe, maybe a maybe head wig.

06:01 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Headwigs probably the biggest one.

06:05 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

That'd be the closest. But I think that the vibe on this one is a bit different, especially with there being six, and it's like a girl band.

06:13 - Jesse McAnally (Host)


06:15 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

They are doing the dances and it reminded me of K-pop type stuff.

06:19 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

There was a K-pop musical on Broadway at the same time as Six too. There you go.

06:26 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

So yeah, so there's a lot of stuff that is good, but it's just kind of like a I don't really know what to say because I don't want to be mean but there's a lot of stuff that I didn't like, but I don't think it's bad.

06:40 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Before we get into the negatives Liz, you have very different opinions on the show. What about that?

06:45 - Liz Esten (Host)

Okay. So during the pandemic I got really into the soundtrack of Six, like I would listen to it a lot and I talked about it so much. For my birthday my boyfriend bought me and him tickets to go see Six on Broadway and we had to New York for a couple of days and I saw it live in person with the same cast that we all watched, and it is. I'm a big fan of this show. Still am. I listen to it in my car when I'm driving, like to work, so, like whenever. So I love this show, but I do see where Andrew is coming from. There's some stuff that could be glaring from one person's specific perspective. So, but for me, from my perspective as a woman who, watching a show where all the characters are women talking about their experiences without interruption from a male figure, that is incredibly powerful to see when, like we, there's so many who goes out there that are kind of about women but are mostly about guys, like this is just women talking about themselves. And the end where it's like we don't need a man to define how we are. That's the thing a lot of people are still learning in modern society. So there's a lot Six has to say, and so I take a lot from it.


I also saw it live and it's it is like a concert, like it's kind of it has the vibe of a concert when you're in the room and I would have like back seats, like all the way in the back, like I could see the whole stage, like I was in the nosebleeds. It's like I think I have a picture of it I can send it, but like it's. It's an incredible experience that I had. But I understand a true another person's perspective Like this didn't work as much for them, just cause of the experience they had. So I love Six a lot, so I'll be your fan girl for this episode. I will probably mostly say nice things, but I understand we're interest coming from completely. Like some things just might not have vibed fully and it's not perfect a lot of the time, but just the reason it exists and what it does for me and a lot of other, like women, non-binary people, queer people in the theater space it's really important in that way.

09:04 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, oh, my God, this didn't win Best Musical, did it? I'm trying to remember.

09:08 - Liz Esten (Host)

No, it lost to a strange loop.

09:10 - Jesse McAnally (Host)


09:11 - Liz Esten (Host)

So that's a better choice. Yeah, yeah, we've also seen that. So we've all seen that.

09:16 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

We love you Six, but you're no a strange loop.

09:18 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

A strange loop is is special, your loop is incredible in its own way.

09:23 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And it was its own kind of, but it is very much a story about a man from a man's point of view, but a very important show.

09:30 - Liz Esten (Host)

It's important show in a different way than Six is an important show. Yes, every show is important in a different way. Unless you're Mulan Rouge, then you just kind of exist.

09:39 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Mulan Rouge and Cats, you know is the only two.


So Six is something I to compare to. Another single syllable musical that we've covered recently is Ride the Musical, which is a show that I love and have revisited the album to. I have never revisited the show itself. I've never, like, turned on the pro shot, and I think that's my experience with Six. I watched it once for to get all the content, get all the concept text. I don't think I will ever watch or see the show like live, like it just wouldn't be my thing, and I know that I will revisit the album, knowing the context I bring from the show itself, and it is a much more enjoyable experience ever since properly taking in the show. Um, sincerely, it does. If you've only listened to the album and not watching in context, do yourself a favor and either go see it on stage or, uh, yoho, yoho, all over the Slimes tutorials on YouTube.

10:39 - Liz Esten (Host)

Um, I do want to bring that up a little bit later, but um, check out, there is a YouTube video that's like the best moments of Six, part one and two. So if you want, to get the highlight reel of the stage show in a piratey way, in a compilation way. That's also exists.

10:53 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I think this is like one of those shows that's like piracy, anti piracy, like in its existence. It's kind of like a Taylor Swift eras tour, or avoiding uploading concert footage of Taylor Swift is not affecting people getting the errors tour. Same way, I think the marketing department of six is like yeah, let the bootleg be out there, so people will know what we're about and then more people will come to see us, which I think is part of its success.

11:20 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

This really to me feels like a show that live would be all about the energy, less so than, like you know, like a lot of other stuff. Like, technically speaking, the bootleg kind of just steals everything because it's just like you know, you're there for the story and the bootleg has all of that and you know, whereas this it's like there's not really much of a story to be told. It's mostly like it's a concert atmosphere, it's like you have to be there, you know. So in some regards, like we can't really except for Liz, we can't really speak on the actual experience because it is like a concert, but we can talk about what happens, like as far as, like you know, musical sense.

12:02 - Liz Esten (Host)

Well, I will speak to about. Like what Andrew said about the concert environment is like being in a room with a pack full of people who are clearly addicted to tick tock and only know like two of the songs. It's like initially kind of like a weird editor. It's like initially I was. I stood next to a teenager who wouldn't stop singing.

12:23 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Oh God, I'm so sorry.

12:25 - Liz Esten (Host)

But eventually the crowd got loud enough that I couldn't hear them anymore. So it's like, okay, great, and then all the clapping kicked in, but like the energy of the room is so like electric because like they bring you in constantly, they're like always like pointing around. It's like, okay, I'm here in the room and I'm with them.


So like really into it, even on the sad songs. You're like this, like I see it, I sat like this, like the edge of my seat. I was like I must engage in this very sad song, like it's incredible energy. So that's I will say about that in terms of the experience for Jess. You wanted to say what you're going to say.

13:01 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Okay, I was curious that added to the experience or distracted from it, but I'd say added.

13:07 - Liz Esten (Host)

The beginning was a little bit like kids talking to their parents about how these songs are on tick tock and they're cool and it's like mom, this is on tick tock. All you want to do is such a good song and I'm like do you know what that song's about? Boo, oh my God. Oh my God, just stick with, don't lose your head. Come on Like don't.

13:24 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And then the show starts and it's like oh, we're all quiet in the moment you have a more presence on theater tick tock than Andrew or I. Is this the most like the memed musical theater piece on the tickety tocks?

13:36 - Liz Esten (Host)

At the time I was paying attention to theater tick tock. Absolutely, there's a lot of don't lose your head tick tocks, but nowadays I don't know what it is that theater tick tock is attached to. I know ride the cyclone was a big hit for a while, and that's which is another remake of cats.

13:54 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I feel like we just need to keep remaking cats and you'll have a successful show the kids love when people introduce themselves, it makes them feel like they have a friend. Because I can't be social anymore.

14:11 - Liz Esten (Host)

They forgot how, yeah, they're stuck in the house in 2021. What else are they fucking going to do?

14:15 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

They have to introduce themselves to these musical theater characters. That will be their emotional outlet for the next two hours.

14:20 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

They're such fucking boomers now.

14:24 - Liz Esten (Host)

If I had to take a wild shot in the dark when theater tick tock is into now, I would guess they're back at Heather's again, because they always go back to Heather's periodically.

14:32 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Heather's goes back. I remember when Be More Chill was everywhere too. So this show involves all six of the wives of Henry VIII, each one basically presenting their case for why they should be head the big queen, the leader of the band, not the big queen.

14:51 - Liz Esten (Host)

I had the most sadness. I want to lead the band.

14:56 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

None of them show leadership skills really, except maybe the last one.

15:00 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, she's the best leader. She also survived.

15:04 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I mean, it's like reverse of little cat that sings memory and dies Grizabella, grizabella. Yes, she's like reverse Grizabella.

15:16 - Liz Esten (Host)

I did not have to purchase me that episode because I had to be somewhere.

15:20 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yes. So I guess what else can we really unpack with six? I mean, six is if it's your thing, you'll know it's your thing, like right away, like the moment you turn on a bootleg or listen to the cast album, you will know exactly if this is going to be your thing. And I think it's hard to say yes or no if that makes something bad, if it's just not for you which I wish I had gone in with that context for some of the other things that we complain, like boomers about, like ride the cyclone or be more chill, where it's just kind of like maybe this just isn't for me and that's okay, because I think a lot of binary thinking of think good or think bad based on experience and we're pretty guilty of that sometimes too. Andrew.

16:09 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, we had our fair share.

16:10 - Liz Esten (Host)

All humans are. I mean, I read the Be More Chill book as a kid so I inherently was already gonna like the musical.

16:16 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

so like but we do want to talk about the things we don't particularly like, if that's alright. The Hamiltonification of this, specifically, I feel like this did come from a genuine place. We aren't trying I am personally not trying to say this is trying to grab onto that Hamilton like train because it was already in development right way before Hamilton was like even on Broadway in 2016. It was an Enberg French Festival where it just kind of was something that they threw together, basically just a fun little idea, and then they kept working on it, working on it until it eventually became its final form.


In the design choices. It does feel like it's trying to ape a little too cool, like it feels like it's trying to be cool sometimes, but it does the thing that I wish Hamilton would do, which is take the past and reinterpret it through a 21st century mindset. That is like one of my favorite things about this show is how iconic each of their outfits are, how strange and fitting it is, and how much I wish Hamilton did something like that and that's like production design. Every time I'm like this is what I want Hamilton to look like. It's a fucking boring, kind of lame, looking like old white men.

17:34 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, they just dress up like yeah.

17:36 - Liz Esten (Host)

I'm just imagining letting one of the outfits from six now and just like so much body hair. So much hair exposed.

17:46 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I guess I just don't like that they are using like modern slang in a way that I just I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a boomer now.

17:56 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Like what do you mean? What specifically got you cringing? Because they will say things like hashtag and yeah, I think it is that type of stuff where it's like I just it's.

18:09 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It's one of those things where it's like it's cringe, but I can't describe why.

18:12 - Liz Esten (Host)

Like it's like, it just is like a it's like a like a 45 year old man trying to write like a teenager and like imagining.

18:21 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)


18:23 - Liz Esten (Host)

Like that's what you're kind of saying, right.

18:25 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I think so you feel like that doesn't feel genuine.

18:29 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

You mean like if the 24 year old was writing this it would kind of not come across the way it does, because I do kind of feel that tiny shred of inauthenticity.

18:38 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, like I just I don't think, I don't feel like, I don't feel like people actually talk like that.

18:44 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Well, they're also being very performative here, like they are on stage, in the context of that. True people act differently when they're trying to kind of put a face out there. And both the writers are 29. Yeah, they are on the younger side, they're young.

18:58 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It may just be because I'm not. I mean, I guess I'm younger than the writers here, but it may just not be because I am a part of the tiktok generation and trends and all that. Yeah and I don't do any of that stuff. I don't understand the culture and it's clear that that's who they're appealing to.

19:13 - Liz Esten (Host)

So yeah, and it worked like they got really big in the pandemic.

19:17 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

So and the show is quality. Like I can say this is a perfect show as far as everything they're trying to do. This is as perfect an execution as I could ever imagine for something as kind of I wouldn't say it high brow, or it's just kind of a weird choice. It's a very specific choice executed perfectly. I don't think I'm going to revisit it a ton, though. I listen to the songs, because they do tend to come up on my thing, but I mostly find myself a little annoyed by it, because I'm annoyed by the things that they're parodying and paying tribute to. So is that really the fault of them for doing such a good past? Each of this type of stuff? Yeah, which means they did it perfectly, but I didn't like what they were paying tribute to. It's like a Jimmy Buffett cover band. It's like, yeah, you're probably doing a really good version of what you're trying to do, but at the end of the day, it's still Jimmy Buffett.

20:16 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

You know, really everyone who loves six should just take us not being the biggest fans of it as a compliment.

20:23 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yes, you are better than us.

20:25 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

You got two straight white men to not like your show.

20:29 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Hey, who the fuck said I didn't like this? Yeah, don't put words in my mouth.

20:35 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Jess said he didn't like it.

20:37 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

But who cares what we think? How about we compare our opinions to that of the New York Times theater critic at the time, jesse Green? It's time for previews.

20:51 - Speaker 4 (Other)

It's time for previews.

20:54 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Alright, andrew, why don't you take a look at this review? Trunkated, this is a very truncated, only pulled out the most interesting quotes version of this review, because I don't want anyone to think we just kind of are reading the full thing. Andrew, why don't you read this for us?

21:09 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Alright. This is the New York Times Jesse Green published on October 3rd of 2021. Alright, are you an Elsa or an Anna, an Alphaba or a Glinda or, for those with more classic tastes, a Vera or a Mame?

21:27 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

What a ridiculous way to open a review.

21:32 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

And for reference, I'm a fucking Anna. Okay, Like, come on. Yeah, I'm an Anna as well, oh, what am I?

21:37 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Everyone is an Anna, so you're an.

21:39 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Elsa Well, you're an Elsa, you're an Elsa.

21:41 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

If you have to ask if you're an Anna, can I be the weird Evan Rachel Wood girl from the second frozen?

21:47 - Liz Esten (Host)

I didn't see it so sure.

21:49 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

You can be the Duke of Wesel Town, weasel Town.

21:54 - Liz Esten (Host)

Okay, Andrew, an Alphaba or a Glinda.

21:57 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Andrew's an Alphaba, come on.

22:01 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, probably I'm the sister in the wheelchair.

22:06 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And I'm Ethan Slater, a Vera or a Mame. I don't remember which one is which, I don't know if it's me, vera is the friend and Mame is the Mame Lady in Mame.

22:19 - Liz Esten (Host)

So I'm the friend then, so I'm.

22:20 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Vera yeah, I'm the friend. I'm definitely not Mame.

22:23 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And Vera is a horrible drunk. That is their one character trick. I'm definitely Vera, then.

22:27 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Then I am definitely Vera, yeah.

22:29 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I am Gooch.

22:30 - Liz Esten (Host)

All right, I've never seen Mame. I don't know what any of these words mean.

22:34 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

In Six. The Queen Hood is powerful pageant about the wives of Henry VIII. Two Door London is the place to be if you're looking for a sex tent of truly empowered empowering mega stars.

22:50 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

This feels like white man talking like the kids do.

22:52 - Liz Esten (Host)

This is a white man talking about a female edge show.

22:56 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

You know he's being positive, though, like yeah, I think it seems positive, it's worded in a positive way. So far, yes, what's?

23:04 - Liz Esten (Host)

that website where you check whether New York Times users are good or not.

23:06 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Did they like it dot com?

23:08 - Liz Esten (Host)

All right, I'm going there.

23:10 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

All right, I'm going to keep reading. And though, after seeing a tryout in Chicago, I wrote that Six was destined to occupy a top spot in the confetti cannon, two questions nagged at me. How can a show formatted as a tutor's got talent belt off off Among Six sassy divas also be a thoughtful experiment in reverse victimology? What and how can history be teased, ignored and glorified all at once?

23:44 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I will say, this is probably one of the better New York Times, like summaries of, like actual analysis.

23:51 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, I am trying to like I he's saying something here, but I'm trying to figure out what he means by reverse victimology.

23:59 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, okay, that is a good question. I feel like he's like taking their victimology and using it against them or trying to compete with victimology, because they are kind of doing that.

24:10 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, it's like the okay, All right. Yet somehow, six by Toby Marlowe and Lucy Moss isn't a philosophically incoherent jumble. It's a rollicking, reverberant pardon me blast from the past, though gleefully anachronistic. Mixing 16th century marital politics with 21st century selfies and shade, it suggests a surprising, disturbing and ultimately hopeful commonality, which shouldn't work but does.

24:50 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I mean, that's kind of the dichotomy I feel with it, like this feels like it shouldn't work, this should feel cringe, but it kind of flows very well for me.

24:57 - Liz Esten (Host)

Also, this man doesn't know what the word shade means. Some intern told him to put that there. I swear.

25:03 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I don't know these New York Times critics. They got their hands on the pulse.

25:07 - Liz Esten (Host)


25:08 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Bent Brantley knew exactly what the kids? He left early because he wanted to start his TikTok career while he was still young.

25:17 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Well, no, actually a skate park opened up down the street from his house, and he just didn't have time to go to Broadway anymore.

25:22 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I was too busy.

25:24 - Liz Esten (Host)

I was too busy on the rails Grinding in the rails.

25:26 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I don't know what skateboarding is. How about you just skip to the last bit, Andrew Sure?

25:33 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

That Six puts just such a rewritten history on stage is a great thing for a pop musical to do. Let's not quibble about its accuracy or the way it drops its contest framework cold, just in time for the sing-along finale. I mean, I think the dropping the contest framework is actually one of the better parts of it. That is the arc.

25:53 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

That makes it worth it.

25:55 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

That makes it an arc that's the big moment Like can you imagine if it was just like they? Just, they sing six songs and then the audience like cheers which one they liked the best, and then it ends they get a little remote control, I know it would win every time.

26:10 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Who would win?

26:11 - Liz Esten (Host)

Catherine Park, the fifth one.

26:14 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Really yeah, I'm going to vote Fran Boleyn because she makes blow job jokes Sure. Just like Miley Cyrus.

26:21 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I'd vote for the one whose baby died because she made me sad, oh because, she's the one that died during childbirth.

26:28 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, oh yeah, I also vote for her.

26:29 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Her baby never got to see her mother. Yeah.

26:33 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

His mother. The baby did see the mother from the inside.

26:36 - Speaker 8 (Other)


26:38 - Speaker 7 (Other)


26:39 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

That's disgusting Andrew, but true.

26:42 - Liz Esten (Host)

He's not wrong. That's just how having a child works.

26:46 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

No, no, no. A stork drops it off and you pull it out your butt.

26:50 - Liz Esten (Host)

Just I need to have a talk with this recording.

26:53 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Oh OK, andrew, I need to talk to you. The stork shows up and rolls a dice and if it lands snake eyes, it murders the mother.

27:00 - Liz Esten (Host)

Just saw the movie Storks and thought it was accurate.

27:04 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

If that's what you're about to say that stork arrives, rolls a joint and just lives in your house for five months. Also back, just like your dad, bro, bro, do we agree with this review?

27:16 - Liz Esten (Host)

I agree. I know the day they like it. You liked it, oh no.

27:20 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I think it's a good review. It's like a Shibuya Nover Neera Times review. It seemed insightful even, which is interesting. Usually these are just meandering and they like to use large words and that's it.

27:29 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Jesse Green has a much better writing style than Ben Brantley. He tends to stay on the point, but he also says a lot stupider shit sometimes. When it comes to appropriateness and talking about other human beings, he tends to dehumanize a lot of folks he writes about.

27:47 - Liz Esten (Host)

Maybe he's being careful at this one, because the entire cast is women.

27:51 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Maybe yeah, and it was let's. After a year of no Broadway and coming back to six, it probably tastes like the best apple pie you've ever had.

28:01 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, yeah.

28:03 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

It's like Andrew remember when we were talking about Godspell and Ben Brantley went in the middle of the summer to some masked up version of Godspell and he acted like it was the greatest thing ever because, hey, I'm theaters back guys.

28:18 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Guys, I went to see this mid-show. It's some random place, but it's the best thing I've ever seen.

28:25 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And you know what I think this show sucks, but, my God, the fact that I saw it here and actually got to see it.

28:30 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, I think honestly I agree with a lot of what he's saying and I think he raises some questions that I'm not sure if the answer is in the non-truncated version of this review, but they're at least interesting to think about.

28:44 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I mean, I feel like he's asking these questions. Those are kind of rhetorical questions Like how is the show so fucking good is basically what he's saying. How did the show not fuck up? How about we go on to a mid-show and we'll talk more about this? Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in a little show, but we've got a show out to you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. And over at Patreon you got tons of stuff commentaries, bonus episodes, monthly hangouts with the three of us. Don't miss out on those. They're coming back for 2024. And you've got a backlog of cool shit over there. Also, I don't bring this up again, but you get discounts on our merch over at Patreon. So don't forget that, guys, if you want to get yourself a musicals with cheese t-shirt to wear around and everyone can think you're finally cool. Who's supporting us currently on Patreon? Andrew.

29:44 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Oh man, our current patrons. It's a lot. Okay, Alright, Nothing is certain except Beth and Taxas Thezbian, Robert Benjamin, Jessica T Mitchell, Young Chai, Tikup, Prist, Markhote Kizhemri, Anastazio Trevi, Joseph Lila, Possessed Washing Machine, Nick Roten, Puffy Boy, Sydney Hicks, Annabelle Billy Clifton, Andrew Wright, Arjay Nariga, Julie McLennon, Bjorn Hermann's, Toriana Frazier, Sammy the Adequated, Mount Jacobson, Kaylee Blazier, Cinemageddon Reviews, Villainess, Miss Sofina, Ali the Omega Geek, Paige Pearson, Maddie Wargal, Elisa Erdman, the Red Caboose, Caboom Gold-plated, Kiki Moro, Julia Baldr's daughter, Rex and Gino Sanchez.

30:55 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

These people give us a little financial support that helps us keep the lights on here in musicals with cheese and do a lot of cool things. So why don't you join them and get all those fun perks? And also we have our Discord server where you can hang out with us and ask us correct questions directly, and they have become a little family there. They all hang out and do things together. It's nice. They all say good morning and good night and give each other kisses. So go and join us over at Patreon and our Discord. Let's talk about these songs, and I feel like we can kind of go through all of them more or less, because they're so. I mean quickly, obviously, but talk a little bit about each of them. So XY is the opening number, the one that takes the old rhyme and turns it into basically a thesis statement for the entire night.

33:32 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I think it's a good way to open it up and obviously this is a very memorable number. I think this is the one we were trying to do earlier.

33:42 - Jesse McAnally (Host)


33:42 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

And I fucked it up abysmal because there's only three of us, there's not six of us.

33:46 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

You weren't just going to do a circle. You gave up on that as soon as we pitched it.

33:53 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Was this one of the TikTok hits?

33:55 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

No, it seems like it would have been, because the listing thing yeah, that's what I was thinking.

34:04 - Liz Esten (Host)

I watched a wedding dress TikTok a while ago that had this version, this song in it, but that was from a month ago.

34:11 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, mostly it was just six related stuff. It's very small, scant lines. This already feels too long. Divorce beheaded, all that. The only thing that I think is like Divorce beheaded live is the only one I remember being used as audio. Just that transition, that's about it. I can only imagine how cool this is live, when just have everything click in and just have that power of their voices coming at you. I wish we had more of that. I know they tend to sing back up, but this is so pretty sounding and I feel like we don't talk enough. Just how things blend and how perfectly it sounds. And I don't tend to be a big fan of handheld mics in my musicals. I find it very distracting and spring awakening when they just pull out the fucking hand mic for no reason. I love the fact that everything is done through the hand mic in this show. It works so great for me.

35:05 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It helps with the concert vibe as well. They actually have physically have mics and Liz.

35:13 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

what do you think about X, y?

35:15 - Liz Esten (Host)

I really enjoy it. It's a really good opener. I don't go back to it as much as some like the individual songs, like per character, but I do enjoy it when I'm like doing a whole album listen. But it's a really good opening number really sets the framework and I think it's really impressive. Also, it does have someone of a following on TikTok or what I can tell, like the X? Y song itself, but it's this also might be about a show called X? Y, so I have no idea. I can't navigate TikTok on a computer.

35:48 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

TikTok is garbage on a computer.

35:51 - Liz Esten (Host)

It's terrible on a computer. So yeah, but yeah, I really enjoy this song a lot. I think it does a really good job setting everything up and getting the character introductions that I dynamics going. So when you get into the show it's like okay, this note makes sense.

36:06 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Well, let's move on to no Way found.

37:05 - Speaker 8 (Other)

Baby, there's none, none, none, none, none, no way.

37:09 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Honestly one of the less memorable songs in the show. Maybe that's a controversial opinion of mine, but when I think of the song, the only thing I remember is they censor shit by saying shh, and I was like oh, that's a classic.

37:23 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

That was like classic 2000s radio. Yeah, I feel like.

37:27 - Liz Esten (Host)

I mean, I was like shiitake mushroom.

37:29 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Oh yeah, I always remember like the it's my, shh, it's my shh, oh yeah the Gwen.

37:34 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Stefani. But aside from that, who is that based on? Who is that musical style based around?

37:44 - Liz Esten (Host)

This is. They have Queen's inspirations in the program, which is why I love this painting. Oh, so she was inspired by Beyonce and Shakira. Shakira feels very out of pocket to me, but Beyonce makes sense.

37:58 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

So I don't know, Shakira made sense, but Beyonce seemed confusing to me. Yeah.

38:03 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Well then, maybe they nailed it, I don't know.

38:05 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

All right, it's a good mix of both. I love her energy, I love the performance. This song just kind of washes over me. It does its job in the moment, but all I think about is sh yeah, let's move on to the next song, and that is Don't Lose your Head, the Miley Cyrus Avril Lavigne song from Ambeline's point of view, it was Lily Allen and Avril Lavigne, so you were 50% correct. Ah dang.

38:54 - Speaker 7 (Other)

All right, let's go to the next song. Yeah, messaging me, like every day he can be better than he. Sent me a letter and who am I kidding? I was pretty mongey Sent a reply Just saying hi, you're a nice guy, I'll think about it maybe. Xo, baby. Hello, here we go. You sent him kisses. I didn't know I would move in with his misses. What Get a lie. You're living with his wife, like what was I meant to do? Sorry, not sorry about what I said. I'm just trying to have some fun, don't worry. Don't worry. Don't lose your head. I didn't mean to hurt anyone. L-o-l say oh well or go to hell. I'm sorry, not sorry about what I said. Don't lose your head.

39:56 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I feel like I was a lot more into this one than I was. I really like this song, honestly, either of the previous two songs.

40:02 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Really, you like this better than X-Wives.

40:05 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I think so I like that sort of pop punk kind of feel is going for it.

40:10 - Liz Esten (Host)

I think no way kind of serves as like. This is how the concept works. Yes, it's not the strongest song. So I think, don't lose your head is when they really get into it and that's when the pop punk also I love pop punk is like Andrew, so like I dig it.

40:26 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I like it. I just find the character very annoying and maybe that's just me.

40:33 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I feel like you're not supposed to like this character at all no, but yeah, that's the point I feel they weren't is this this is the one that there was like more famous than the others. I mean, I'm gonna be honest, I don't know any of these fucking people at all.

40:46 - Liz Esten (Host)

She is very famous because to get a divorce from the first wife, he had to leave the Catholic Church, start a new church, get divorced in the Church of England, which also helped him regain religious control of the country. So not fully amylin being hot is the reason the Church of England exists. So like it's a little bit of both. I'm a history geek as well, sorry about that.

41:08 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I'd say that she's probably the most famous of all.

41:12 - Liz Esten (Host)

the X, y, so the reason the Church of England exists is partially. He wanted to marry Anne Boleyn, and Catherine wouldn't let him have a divorce in the Catholic Church. So thus new church, get a divorce, have new wife. I mean, I knew what, and the wife after he might have cheated, after she might have cheated. There's no proof of that, so yeah.

41:35 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I mean that's.

41:37 - Liz Esten (Host)

Henry cheated. There is proof of that.

41:39 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Henry always cheated.

41:40 - Liz Esten (Host)

Henry had bastards when he was married to Anne Boleyn.

41:43 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, but that's just. That's just a loud though. Yes.

41:45 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah it's a lot. He's a man. Didn't you watch Damian East Not?

41:50 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

only is he a man, he's the king Literally.

41:54 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I remember that part of the Lion King where it's like Simba had not beheaded because you know she cheated Wait would not it be the first wife?


Oh no, he had all of his wives. Simba's just a bastard. This is. This is not connected. I love it. I do see the influences. I do see, like the, the girl influences.


One thing I wanted to say earlier, but I think now is a good point the songs are written in a way and the shows can be constructed in a way that anyone that takes on a role can just bring their own take to these songs, and I think that's so fascinating and so exciting and why I think different cast will really make a different show, entirely depending on who they lean more towards in their interpretation. I don't love the current Broadway interpretation. I preferred the UK interpretation a little more, which is a wholly different vibe as far as I'm concerned. So I once again, it's all depending on your taste, and that's why this show is so fucking hard to talk about, is sometimes it's just a taste thing. Let's move on to Heart of Stone. Jane Seymour's really sad, really quiet white girl song, which I'm guessing I'm not looking up like a power ballad, kind of Adele, kind of Taylor Swift.

43:13 - Liz Esten (Host)

Oh, see you.

43:15 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Oh, see you, Yikes.

43:18 - Liz Esten (Host)

Don't watch music kids.

43:45 - Speaker 4 (Other)

Yeah, don't watch it.

43:58 - Liz Esten (Host)

I like the song a lot.

44:00 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, I think this one was really good. I wish there was another song that was more like ballady, like this, but I feel like that.

44:06 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I mean, that's all other.

44:07 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Broadway shows, though? Sure what if I like that though?

44:13 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Well, don't go see six.

44:15 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, no, it's really good. I like it. I think it's really pretty.

44:21 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I just I feel bad. It's so early in the show Like this feels like a middle of act two kind of song and they kind of blow it on you in like the first half of the first. Yeah, basically the first half of the show. And that's my only complaint is I wish it kind. I wish I had more time to look forward to this, but then again it would just be memory at that point.

44:44 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's tough because historically we don't know jack shit about Jane Seymour besides the fact that she liked Henry and she died in childbirth. That's all historians know about her.

44:56 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

So I mean, they could have written anything, but they just kind of had to chalk it up to that Like. I, but I don't know. I think it's effective. I feel like that's probably the reason why it is so effective.

45:08 - Liz Esten (Host)

So I think it's just like we couldn't. There's not, but there's a few, only a very little direction. You could go in with this, like she liked Henry and she died in childbirth. Like that's all we got.

45:20 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And she doesn't really do much in interacting with the rest of the girls.

45:24 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, even though Anbelin was her, she was her. She was an ambulance lady in waiting and Catherine Ergon's lady in waiting.

45:31 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, she doesn't interact much because there's a lot of arguing between the Queens and, yeah, they barely.

45:37 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Well, she always like pops into, like just be like morally fucking annoying, like actually I had it the worst because, like my baby, my baby didn't know it's mother. Yeah, I think she's kind of it's weird because she gave her this really sad song, but whenever there, like any other scene, she's kind of the joke character.

46:01 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Which maybe that's part of the reason why it's good that she comes so early, because get it over with. Then we never have to go down that way again.

46:08 - Liz Esten (Host)

It's a really good song though.

46:10 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

It is a great song, probably the one that will get played on your, your, your mp3 players the most. There'll be your number one on Spotify's. Whatever Get down, let's go.

46:23 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Every day head back for around the croquet? Yeah, because I'm a player and tomorrow I'll hit replay you. You said that I tripped you because I didn't look like my profile picture too. But too bad, I don't agree, so I'm gonna hang it up for everyone to see.

46:48 - Speaker 8 (Other)

And you can't stop me, because I'm the queen of the castle. Get down, you dirty rascal. Get down, get down, get down.

47:03 - Speaker 5 (Other)

Get down, you dirty rascal, get down. Get down, because I'm the queen of the castle.

47:16 - Liz Esten (Host)

Also, Nicki Minaj and Rihanna are the listed ones on the program. So yeah, I hear it.

47:22 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I'm surprised her tongue wasn't out more. If it's gonna be all them, I like this song a lot.

47:30 - Liz Esten (Host)

I like Britney Mac doing this song specifically.

47:32 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, I don't know if you've ever heard the British version of it.

47:36 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yes, I have multiple times.

47:37 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

It is very grating to my ears that one where she's like on the king of the castle.

47:44 - Speaker 8 (Other)

I'm the queen of the castle. Get down your dirty rascal.

47:48 - Liz Esten (Host)

It's very unpleasant, it's very British in the British recording, that's horrendous you are Some of them aren't super British. But then Anna Epleyves and Amberlynn are just so British, very British, so British, I love it.

48:04 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It kind of ruins the vibe of that section, because, isn't it?

48:06 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I feel like it's supposed to be more taunting than that, yeah, it kind of stops the song flat as opposed to keeping the energy up. I know it's supposed to kind of stop so we can drop the Wub Wubs. But yeah, this is just about her getting her own way and having her nice little castle.

48:25 - Liz Esten (Host)

I like it.

48:27 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

It's fun, it's upbeat, it's energetic and she got hers. I think she's the only one that backs out before everything else because she's like, oh yeah, I won.

48:36 - Liz Esten (Host)

She backs out because she lost.

48:38 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

She backs out because she won in life.

48:40 - Liz Esten (Host)

She won in life, so she lived the longest of all of them, for sure.

48:45 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, she had her good time, which means that she can't win.

48:48 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah so she loses the whole thing because she's had a happy life with a castle.

48:51 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Because she didn't push up, put up with any ish from the king.

48:56 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I'm glad that they end the show by realizing how fucked up it is to have a competition about how shitty your life was.

49:01 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, that's what we all should learn, but isn't that what cats do too?

49:09 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, but cats, but cats sucks.

49:12 - Speaker 5 (Other)

Dark sex semantics taught me all about dynamics. He was 23 and I was 13, going on 30. We spent hours strumming the lute, striking the chords and blowing the flute. He plopped my strings all the way to G, went from major, to minor, c to D. Tell me what you need, what you want. You don't need to plead, cause I feel the chemistry like I get you and you get me. And maybe this is it. He just cares so much it feels legit.

49:58 - Speaker 4 (Other)

We have a connection. I think this guy is different.

50:08 - Speaker 5 (Other)

Cause. All you want to do. All you want to do baby is touch me, loving me can't get enough sleep. All you want to do. All you want to do baby is please, please, please me. Birth and obesity. Run your fingers through my hair. Tell me I'm the fairest of the fair.

50:29 - Speaker 4 (Other)

Playtime's over. The only thing you want to do is All you want to do.

50:38 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

All you want to do babe.

50:40 - Liz Esten (Host)

I think you could figure out the instructions real fast.

50:45 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Ariana Grande.

50:47 - Liz Esten (Host)

By the hair.

50:49 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I don't know, Andrew, throw out the other one.

50:52 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I don't have it. I don't know any of these pop stars.

50:53 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Britney Spears, britney Spears. I see Ariana mostly in just the hair.

50:58 - Liz Esten (Host)

No, it's just the dead giveaway.

51:01 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I hate the character. I love this song and this song made me feel different about the character, without changing really much of the content. Hearing this song and watching someone perform it are two very different experiences and, my god, whoever performed it on Broadway.

51:19 - Liz Esten (Host)

Samantha Pauly Incredible, so good, so good.

51:26 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Like how she's delivering these things, but getting progressively more depressed, hurt, damaged all these things by the horrible things these people did, and especially when it's like I thought you were going to be different. Why aren't any of them different? Oh, but I'm sure it would hit people that have that experience a lot better than me, who, just like, has that empathy side. So it is very effective.

51:52 - Liz Esten (Host)

I really like this song a lot. It's very impactful. Especially seeing it in person is incredibly impactful, because the entire theater just goes quiet by the end it's like wait, we were cheering for that and, holy shit, we just cheered for a lot of shit we shouldn't have cheered for. It's incredibly powerful. Yeah, I really like the song a lot. It's the structure is really good, and also Catherine Howard, as I'm going to go off in history for a minute because I, after I got into six, I did history digging Catherine Howard as a figure in the Henry unit I guess the Henry cinematic universe, you could call it Henry the eighth.


In a cinematic universe, the HBCU, she is portrayed largely in some circles as just a flighty, slutty person who slept with a lot of people, but the reality of it is she was a teenager and she died at age 19. So she lived the shortest of all of them and of Cleaves like, beat her by so many years in life and the way the framing of history a lot of times is. She's flighty and slutty and a whore and she's the worst, but just hearing and beheaded for being a whore. But for the framing of, I was sexually abused, manipulated by a series of men who saw me as a sex object is just very important, especially in like a hate to bring it up, but in a post wine steam thing like men are powerful and they take advantage of women and it's still a lesson we're learning today and even like all of Hollywood and all of business, like we need to acknowledge that and not abuse women like this Like come on, guys, do better, actually, when they're fucking 13 years old.

53:38 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

History bros stay sexist.

53:41 - Liz Esten (Host)

History bros are very sexist. History sucks in a lot of ways. If you're a nerd, I do want to say in.

53:49 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I don't mean to interrupt, but it is the one thing brought up in the fucking Wikipedia pages. There is no proof of there was any abuse towards her. I'm like knowing that information. Her doing anything was abuse.

54:00 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, literally her existing, was her being abused, like, like, if you say, at 13 years old she was in a sexual relationship with a 25 year old man I don't know who the first guy was but like, come on, come on, historians, how do you?

54:15 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

wait. How do you say that someone who got the head it didn't receive any abuse?

54:21 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

This is the exact quote from Wikipedia quoting the tutor times, which also looks like its own Wikipedia source, which is like the show is based on historical figures with varying degrees of accuracy. For instance, it portrays Catherine Howard as a survivor of rape, which is debated amongst historians which, knowing the information you told me, she was a child.

54:46 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I think it is debated amongst historians, because some historians are fucking gross. Are sexists who probably are like the age of consent should be eight or something.

54:58 - Liz Esten (Host)

They're all like very right-wing YouTubers. There's this one guy from a while ago I saw in a commentary video the best time for them to have children is at age 12 and it's like okay, I'm gonna throw the fuck up.

55:11 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Hot damn history sucks. But you know what I would say to all those historians? I would say I don't need their love, just like Catherine Parr said to a lot of people.

55:24 - Speaker 8 (Other)

I've got no choice With the king. I stay alive, never had a choice, been a wife twice before just to survive. I don't have a choice. If Henry says it's you, then it's you, no matter how I feel, it's what I have to do. But if somehow I had that choice no holding back I'd raise my voice. I'd say Henry, it's true, I'll never belong to you, cause I am not your toy to enjoy till there's something new, as if I'm gonna give up my boy, my work, my dreams, to care for you. Darling, get a clue. There's nothing you can do. I don't need your love. No, no, no. I don't need your love. No, no. There's nothing left to discover us. No, no, cause I don't need your love. No, no.

56:45 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

In the memory of this musical. For some reason, I'm feeling like Alicia Keys or Jennifer Hudson or something.

56:53 - Liz Esten (Host)

Alicia Keys, you're right. I don't know how to pronounce the second one, so I'm gonna try. She-, I offend someone so.

56:59 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, how's it spelled?

57:03 - Liz Esten (Host)

E-M-E-L-I, and so it's Sonde. I think I've got that last name. I never heard of this person.

57:10 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

She's named after an ice cream sundae.

57:12 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)


57:14 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, emily, or something like that.

57:17 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Emily, Emil.

57:18 - Liz Esten (Host)

E-Sundae. I don't know, I'd never. It's not Emil.

57:21 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Emily Sonde is her, like you know.

57:25 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I can't pronounce these southern names.

57:28 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Emily Sonde, I don't know how to read.

57:30 - Liz Esten (Host)

I don't know how I'm doing.

57:33 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Back to sixth. This song is great.

57:35 - Liz Esten (Host)

I love this song so much.

57:38 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Recontextualize is the entire show.

57:41 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I'm really glad they did this, cause if they went a different way, this could have been a much worse show. Yeah.

57:48 - Liz Esten (Host)

I would say, seeing this in person, like not having this, not be in there, I would be much more annoyed leaving the theater. I'd be like great, I didn't learn shit.

57:57 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

But let's pretend just for a second that after this song plays you were handed a remote and you got numbers one through six and you had to vote.

58:06 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Oh shit, alright, place your votes now.

58:10 - Liz Esten (Host)

Can I vote for House of Hallbine and cheat?

58:13 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Nope, you can't cheat. You have to vote for one of the six.

58:16 - Liz Esten (Host)

Okay, if I was a person, if I was me in November of last year seeing this, or two years ago I guess two years ago seeing this live I'd say you have to vote on their criteria.

58:27 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Don't vote on who has the best song. Vote on who is the most tortured, who's most tortured I gotta play by their rules. Yeah, you have to play by their rules.

58:35 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, Katherine Howard Number five.

58:38 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Okay, so I'm voting that's all you want to do, Andrew? What about you?

58:44 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Um, hmm.

58:47 - Liz Esten (Host)

We got got divorced, beheaded, died and childbirth.

58:53 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, I feel like the one. It has to be one of the two beheaded, because that sounds awful, so I'm definitely going to go with number five as well.

59:00 - Liz Esten (Host)

I also like how the beheaded actors they both were chokers. Those are really nice touch on the costume.

59:05 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, that is a great touch.

59:07 - Liz Esten (Host)

Very nice touch on the costume.

59:08 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I knew that going in it helped me figure out who was who a little bit.

59:11 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, there's a lot of Catherine's.

59:14 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, too many names, and I'm going to skirt by by non-answering Um.

59:20 - Liz Esten (Host)

Jess, you have to answer.

59:22 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Jess you have to answer.

59:23 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, we both answered.

59:25 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

He doesn't want to answer because he's going to say fucking Anna of Cleves, or something he's going to say.

59:28 - Liz Esten (Host)

Anna of Cleves, yes, he's literally, he's right on his fucking Because he's just not going to castle alone or something.

59:34 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Look at this guy. Holy fucking shit, he's really going to do it. Are you going to? Say Anna of Cleves. She withdrew from the competition Literally she said I had an awesome life. I believe oh my God, he's literally going to do it.

59:46 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

You guys are going to hate me, I know it, but I'm picking Vampire Assassin.

59:53 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

What, what.

59:54 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

That's a red letter media reference.

59:56 - Liz Esten (Host)

Oh wait, oh wait oh wait, I got it. I got it I saw that one, yeah. I got it. I saw that too. Hackalander won that episode clearly.

01:00:05 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yes, but he picked Vampire Assassin.

01:00:06 - Liz Esten (Host)

He picked Vampire Assassin.

01:00:08 - Jesse McAnally (Host)


01:00:10 - Liz Esten (Host)

I want to put Anyway, I don't need your love.

01:00:12 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Topic no no Catherine of Argonne.

01:00:17 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

You picked the first one.

01:00:19 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, she had the first wife that just got the first, do you know the paperwork to get fucking to change the religion of the entire country? She didn't have to do that.

01:00:28 - Liz Esten (Host)

She had to do that. That was when Anne Boleyn was around.

01:00:30 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

No, she had to do this.

01:00:32 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Look, I'm changing my vote. I'm voting for Henry VIII.

01:00:36 - Liz Esten (Host)

I'm voting for the Holbein guy because he had to pay a lot of he had to put up with all these ladies he had to put up with all these ladies like they were in piss.

01:00:49 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

What he pissed on them.

01:00:51 - Liz Esten (Host)

No, the Holbein Henry called Whatever the fuck his name was Holbein. He had these infamous ways of like treating, making women look better they do. They mentioned in the lyrics of the song. Like, I will look it up if you want to continue discussing, but I will get the receipt.

01:01:08 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Jesus Christ, we haven't done this in a minute, but this will be a really, really quick. We're gonna do a quick buzz feed, are we doing?

01:01:20 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

a buzz feed quiz for the six wives yes, oh my god, I already know which one I am.

01:01:25 - Liz Esten (Host)

There's only three of us and you're opening one quiz. How are we gonna do this? Yep, we're all gonna be ugly ones, we're all just gonna shout our answers.

01:01:31 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I'm gonna pick whoever convinced me the most. All right, first questions what is your best personality trait? I'm hard-working, I'm wise, I'm clever, I'm friendly, I'm kind, I'm caring. Collectively, I say we're clever.

01:01:42 - Liz Esten (Host)

I'm clever.

01:01:44 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

What is your worst personality trait? Too shy, too competitive. Hide my feelings. Be too reckless. Be rude. I'm too stubborn, too rude.

01:01:50 - Speaker 7 (Other)

Too stubborn?

01:01:51 - Liz Esten (Host)

No, I think it's rude, too stubborn, not rude, that's two, that's two.

01:01:56 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Um hold up All right. So what's your favorite color? Blue, purple, green, yellow, red, pink, blue, Blue.

01:02:06 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

And you'll go blue, blue's fine, blue's fine.

01:02:08 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Favorite animal owl, dolphin, lion, giraffe, koala bear, monkey. Koala bear Owl Shitting me, I'm picking dolphin. Fuck off you Fuck it what the fuck, which of the queens do you admire the most? Victoria, elizabeth, elizabeth the second Queen, mary, queen, mary two. I wish there was like fuck the monarchy which one died, the fastest.

01:02:29 - Liz Esten (Host)

Which one I don't remember. Queen Victoria probably died pretty quick. Let's go with that.

01:02:34 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, I'll do, victoria, she's the oldest probably.

01:02:36 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Which country do you one of his the most? Usa, france, spain, greece, italy, japan, italy.

01:02:41 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Italy, uh yeah.

01:02:43 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Italy. What finds you the most? Death never being able to return home, losing a loved one, being alone, being forced out of your comfort zone, large crowds.

01:02:51 - Speaker 7 (Other)

Large crowds.

01:02:52 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Death, yeah, death.

01:02:55 - Speaker 7 (Other)

When are you close?

01:02:56 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Which would you choose to live in? Bunch of houses.

01:03:01 - Liz Esten (Host)

Big pool.

01:03:02 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

The smallest, the small house I'm going with big pool. Show us your favorite friends the crown, game of Thrones, the vampire diaries, grace and Addie Gawd Subgirl none of them.

01:03:14 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I have to pick friends. It's the only one I've actually seen.

01:03:16 - Liz Esten (Host)

I guess I've only seen one episode of Friends, so yeah, let's go with that.

01:03:20 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I've seen no episodes of Friend, but I haven't seen any others. Which book or book series is your favorite? Harry Potter, Hobbit, Pride and Prejudice, Murder on the Orient Express, Little Women, the Hunger Games?

01:03:29 - Liz Esten (Host)

None of these are comfortable.

01:03:30 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

The Hobbit I've only. The only one I've read is Harry Potter and the Hobbit. So the Hobbit, the only one I've read, is Pride and Prejudice so.

01:03:37 - Liz Esten (Host)

So the Hobbit?

01:03:38 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

The Hobbit. Which of the favorite the Henry, the Ace wives was your favorite? We decided on.

01:03:45 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Catherine Parr right.

01:03:46 - Speaker 4 (Other)

Let's go with that.

01:03:47 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I like Jane Seymour.

01:03:50 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Okay, let's go, jane, we're Anna, please. We lived, we lived.

01:03:54 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

We got divorced. I told you we'd be the ugly one, yeah we're the ugly one. I said, I said I already know which one I am. I'm the ugly one.

01:04:04 - Liz Esten (Host)

Anyway, back to what I was mentioning earlier.

01:04:06 - Jesse McAnally (Host)


01:04:07 - Liz Esten (Host)

So Aquiliscor and Agenius. So I don't know the sources, but Tudor makeup usually contained like lead and mercury, which made them pale.

01:04:14 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

All good for your skin.

01:04:15 - Liz Esten (Host)

Also could have fucking killed them. They bathed in urine as ammonia and would act as bleach and lighten their skin and hair.

01:04:25 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Does that work, though? How do these people live for more than like five years?

01:04:29 - Liz Esten (Host)

I don't know. I rewatched it. I rewatched it at Wizard of Ozzie. When they get covered in asbestos, I'm like how are you guys like alive at the end of the scene? Just barely yeah they were just barely functioning. But yeah, there's probably more info on this. I'm not getting, but there's a lot of weird Tudor makeup and beauty regimens that are fucked up.

01:04:50 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Well, I've been looking for some new regimens to try, so I guess bathing in piss is my next go. Where do you get that much piss?

01:04:57 - Liz Esten (Host)

I don't know.

01:04:59 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Every servant in the house compete Maybe.

01:05:01 - Liz Esten (Host)

Holobind just had a very large bladder. Let me piss in the tub before we dye your skin.

01:05:08 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

All right, I'm in the tub, got five minutes to fill it.

01:05:13 - Liz Esten (Host)

My hair doesn't look good.

01:05:14 - Speaker 4 (Other)

Boy could this guy?

01:05:15 - Liz Esten (Host)


01:05:17 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Hey, hey, hey, cut out drinking the Baja Blast. I don't want to fucking turn green Baja.

01:05:21 - Liz Esten (Host)

Blast is delicious yeah.

01:05:23 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

turn your piss green yeah.

01:05:25 - Liz Esten (Host)

I know, but it's delicious.

01:05:29 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Speaking of delicious, what is our overall thoughts and our cheese ratings? Andrew, why don't you start?

01:05:36 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Oh man, I think I kind of said my overall thoughts earlier, which is that I think it's a very good show. That just isn't really for me, which is fine. Not everything is for me. I think that it's very well done, though, and I can definitely see why people like it. I would probably enjoy it if I saw it live anyways, though, just because I feel like the vibes in a place like that would be high energy, although I might get annoyed by how many TikTok people would be there. That's a we'll see situation Better enough.


As far as a cheese rating goes, hmm, I feel like a cheese platter is too obvious, like with six cheeses. I don't want to do that. Ooh, ooh, you know, you know, it's really fucking good, though. Have you ever had like a grilled cheese where they actually take like, like, like they have like multiple layers of cheese? Yes, yeah. So I feel like that would be a really good and that's kind of like a classy but also not classy meal, and that's kind of how I feel about this too. So I think that's a good one.

01:06:50 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And Liz. What about you?

01:06:52 - Liz Esten (Host)

I kind of said a lot earlier but I'll summarize. I this shows impact me a lot, at least from like the peers of it into it. It's really amazing. It's two queer people, openly queer people, make a show, most only starring women, about their experiences and it's very impactful in a space where that is rare. And you're the, your voice. Like me, as a woman, my voice feels like it's not important in a lot of space, theatrical spaces, but in six it feels important. Like the theater was mostly women. It was like very comforting. My poor boyfriend was just like surrounded by chicks, but it was. It's a really amazing experience. Live. I highly recommend it. It's like the. It's like the sickest quick concert you've ever been to and you're at, you're at 90 minutes, so you have a lot of time to just like walk around New York and do whatever the fuck else you want to do.

01:07:45 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

We did not bring that up. This is a very short show.

01:07:48 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, I went to. I went to like seven o'clock show, I got it like nine ish and I had a lot of time to like get cheesecake and like walk back to my hotel and do whatever else else we felt like doing. It was a nice like nice evening.

01:08:03 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It's not short because it's lacking in content. It's just short because it's like concise.

01:08:06 - Liz Esten (Host)

It's very concise.

01:08:08 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It knows what it wants to do and it does it and it doesn't hold you hostage there, and then you leave. Have like filler shit, yeah. Then you leave and you're good.

01:08:15 - Liz Esten (Host)

And yeah, no, I enjoy the show a lot. I'm very attached to it. I'm probably very biased in a lot of ways, but I this is one of my favorite shows. I will generally listen to this in my car tomorrow when I'm going into work, so I'm going to give this. Andrew took grilled cheese, so I'm going to think a little harder. I'm going to give this a really good, like cheesy quesadilla.


Like with some chicken in it and a little salt on the side, because it's like really good, really comforting, has everything you need and it's very concise into the point.

01:08:52 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Hell, yeah, I like that. That's a good answer and I agree fundamentally, like I, when we were in New York we saw some Broadway shows, and every one of them, even the matinees, I'm like I'm fucking exhausted. That was a lot of mental fortitude I dedicated there and this feels like it would have been a bright, quick, easy brist show. I enjoy it, but I don't think I'm going to revisit it much outside of like a specific song or two. I get the appeal. I love the fan base. I actually love how passionate the fan base is. It is a perfect show. It's just not for me and I can say both of those things were. Both are equally true. So my cheese raining today is the cheese and onion. Two door Chris. Yes, they are styled after the two door Anglid vibe. Of course they're discontinued, but hey, wouldn't it be great to have them.

01:09:46 - Liz Esten (Host)

So Jess is going to predict the ending of six on Broadway now.

01:09:50 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yes, I am the end. What, what, what, like when you say the end, like it, wrapping up.

01:09:56 - Liz Esten (Host)

I mean like closing it. I'm just saying you're going to make it close on Broadway for you picking a discontinued cheese. Oh, yes, yes, it's like how we indirectly predicted Sondheim's death that one time a few years.

01:10:07 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Oh, that was such a bummer.

01:10:09 - Liz Esten (Host)

I know right.

01:10:11 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

We also predicted Angela Lansbury's death, like, and I was like oh, she's going to live forever.

01:10:15 - Liz Esten (Host)

She died the next fucking week next, like week or so early. Cheese is kind of cursed.

01:10:21 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Yeah, that was a weird year. You know what else is weird are wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us. And iTunes and Spotify. At musicals with cheese run Twitter. At cheesy musicals Patreon musicals with cheese Instagram. Musicals with cheese are you to page musicals with cheese? We're going to be posting a lot more there this year. That is our New Year's resolution.

01:10:41 - Liz Esten (Host)

So check out a thing in the works for the recent next few weeks. So let's hope Um.

01:10:47 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Patreon podcast, patreon with cheese emails and musical theater lives at gmailcom are. Keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio. This show is edited by Andrew DeWolf and he does a fantabulous job. Our themes for briefies were created by Robin Nash. Value music UK. Thank you to the Broadway podcast number for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for divorce, beheading our wives. Um, all right. Anything else we have left to say?

01:11:12 - Liz Esten (Host)

If you divorce your wife, where are you beheading her? What's the goddamn point?

01:11:16 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Um, I wanted to give her half my money.

01:11:18 - Liz Esten (Host)

then, killer, ah, why did you have a arena?

01:11:21 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I don't understand why start an entire new church to get a divorce, when you could have just beheaded your wife. Well, it was all.

01:11:31 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

He was asking himself that same question.

01:11:33 - Liz Esten (Host)

You know it was also to gain religious control of England at the time. But like that's history, so the fuck that he came up with a reason to do it.

01:11:43 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

He was like, uh, it's bad guy, get a divorce.

01:11:45 - Liz Esten (Host)

You know, it's just so fucking hot. He needs to start a new church.

01:11:50 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And then she cheated with her sister too.

01:11:52 - Liz Esten (Host)

I didn't mention that. But oh yeah. And his sister also slept with Henry Like had an extended affair.

01:11:59 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

And she just played by Scarlett Johansson, right.

01:12:00 - Liz Esten (Host)

In that one bullet girl movie.

01:12:01 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I think he kept her head.

01:12:03 - Liz Esten (Host)

She kept her head, though I think I don't remember.

01:12:05 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

No, no, no like. Do you think Henry kept her head and like hung it on the wall or something?

01:12:09 - Liz Esten (Host)

Oh, like a Game of Thrones thing. Yeah, ooh, I like that fiction. I don't know if he did it.

01:12:15 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

It's not proof, he did it, he did it, he did it yeah kept it in his room.

01:12:19 - Liz Esten (Host)

Historians, fuck you.

01:12:21 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

No one's written it down or anything, and they threw it away after Henry died, but he did it, yeah definitely yeah, he had spikes with the heads. And if he didn't do it, just sue us for a slander. Henry V, Go ahead.

01:12:33 - Liz Esten (Host)

I wrote a paper about that, about real life people, real biopic movies and if you can sue for a slander or libel, and the conclusion was no, but I wrote like 10 pages about it.

01:12:44 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

I would love it if Andy Kaufman sued Jim Carrey for man on the Moon. Wouldn't that be great? Like I think it's a great idea. I think we should revive all the dead people and let them watch the movies we made about them.

01:12:55 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

How could Andy Kaufman sue Jim Carrey for man on the Moon, though, when Jim Carrey was literally being possessed?

01:13:01 - Liz Esten (Host)

by the spirit of Andy Kaufman, you're right. Also like if PT Barnum came back to life and watched the greatest show and he'd be like great fucking job, you made me look amazing.

01:13:10 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

You guys forgot about all the slays. You forgot the slay aisle.

01:13:15 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Thanks, guys, and dissected on stage as part of the show. Don't forget that.

01:13:20 - Liz Esten (Host)

Yeah, and that one time I put a fish tail on a monkey and abused all my circus. People like that.

01:13:25 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Literally, I feel like you're just kind of making me a dick to my wife at worst. Yeah, which?

01:13:32 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

I was, you got it right. I feel like he would be offended that you left that stuff out. He would be like proud of it.

01:13:39 - Liz Esten (Host)

He might be angry that the slave wasn't in it. True.

01:13:42 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

Yeah, why that?

01:13:43 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

was one of my best acts. He's my slave. You had all the time for the singing and dancing, but no time.

01:13:51 - Andrew DeWolf (Host)

No time for my best act, no time for my best act.

01:13:53 - Liz Esten (Host)

I'm standing a slave in front of everyone.

01:13:58 - Jesse McAnally (Host)

Cut this, all right, we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese. That was our big six episode. Hope you're not disappointed. All you want to do, all you want to do, baby, is touch me. When will enough be enough, see, all you want to do. All you want to do, baby, is squeeze me. Don't care if you don't please me. Please me, bite my lip and pull my hair.

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