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[0:00] Tori Bullard: We would like to acknowledge the Thurrawal people of the Eora Nation and the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation. We pay respect to the traditional custodians of this land on which we work, live and record and strive to continue in the tradition of Australia's first storytellers. We acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

[0:22] Tori Bullard: You're listening to Stage Door Podcast, the podcast celebrating theatre and creativity, from onstage mishaps to career-defining moments. Hosted by Thespians, myself, Tori and co-host Eliza. Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives and more. Hello and welcome back to Stage Door Podcast. Today we are joined by the creators and founders of Little Triangle, one of Sydney's most beloved independent theatre companies, Rose and Alex. Please welcome them to the mic.

[0:55] Rose McClelland: Hello, hello.

[0:56] Alexander Andrews: Hello. Thank you for having us.

[0:58] Tori Bullard: Thank you guys for being here and taking time out of your busy schedules to come chat to us about your latest show and also about your incredible theatre company.

[1:08] Rose McClelland: Oh my gosh, don't be silly. No, I was so excited to be on here. Can't believe it hasn't happened yet. So thrilled that it's finally happening.

[1:20] Tori Bullard: I know, we are too. I mean, before you guys started Little Triangle, how did the two of you kind of meet?

[1:25] Alexander Andrews: That's a great story. Rose, you want to take it away?

[1:28] Rose McClelland: So I have to cast my mind back many years now. It's probably over 10 years ago now, Alex and I were both studying at the University of Sydney. And as all little theatre fans do, we joined the Musical Theatre Ensemble, also known as MUSE. And we got into a show together, just both in the cast. It was called Anything Goes. Alex was a lead, I was in the ensemble. So I guess that was the start of our friendship, was just kind of being in a show together. And then about a year later, the Society was ready to put on another show. And Alex and our dear friend of ours, Conrad Hamill, were really desperate to put on a show called A Little Night Music by Stephen Sondheim. And they needed a producer to join them on the pitch to put forward to the Society.

And they asked around, they asked a few people, and I reckon I was probably the phone call number seven. And I said, yep. I was like, well, I don't know this show at all. I've never done anything like producing before, but sign me up. And so the three of us pitched that show to the Society, we got in, we presented that show in 2015, I believe. And yeah, I guess that you could say is the real origin story of Little Triangle and of Alex's and my working relationship together.

[3:14] Alexander Andrews: Yeah. I mean, what a way to kind of go into things just straight into the production role side of things and get to learn in a place that's like a little bit more safe.

[3:19] Rose McClelland: 100%. It's yeah, the safety and honestly, like, I feel like the budgets for the MUSE shows were bigger than I even play with now, because it wasn't, you know, my money. So yeah, it was a big undertaking for, you know, someone who was like, I was what, 20, 21. And Alex as well, where I don't think, yeah, we didn't have much experience in that world, but it's a really amazing kind of sandbox.

[3:55] Alexander Andrews: Absolutely. I mean, I'm such a big fan of student theatre and what it can teach anyone, really, not just those who want to kind of go into the performing arts or the industry. We learned on our feet so quickly, you just had to, and you're absolutely right. You're given this big responsibility, but with, you know, in such a safe environment in such, you know, like a low stakes way, even though, you know, the budgets are huge and you have to fill those huge audiences, but it's so much fun while also being terrifying. And I think, yeah, it really taught us so much that we use still today.

[4:32] Tori Bullard: And obviously you then made the leap from student theatre to independent theatre. What actually made you decide that you wanted to create your own independent theatre company?

[4:44] Rose McClelland: Um, I guess, I mean, one could say we wanted to hold onto the glory days of our days in student theatre. We both graduated, we finished uni, we started, you know, full-time jobs, which we're kind of still in the world of the performing arts, drama, theatre, but we weren't doing that anymore, getting our hands dirty, putting on a show. And we thought, we, hey, we want to keep doing this just because we're not at uni anymore doesn't mean we should stop. So we decided to do it and keep going. And I think, yeah, a cute story is a lot of people ask us where the name came from. And yeah, that's a cute organic little moment is that, so Alex, Conrad and I were sort of inseparable during those last years at uni after working together.

And my mum used to call us her little triangle. And so when we were trying to think of what we'd call this little thing of ours, it just seemed really apt because A, it's sort of a reference to our friendship. And I think that's always, you know, number one in what we do together. And second, we really love the little in the name as well, because we like to say, you know, we're a little company doing big things. And yes, that's where the name came from.

[6:08] Tori Bullard: That's so beautiful. Starting your own company comes with, I guess, a lot of challenges. What were some of the biggest challenges you guys came up against when you started it?

[6:18] Alexander Andrews: I guess, I mean, a lot of it felt like the, just the risk suddenly became real. The idea that, you know, when I'm putting a deposit down on a theatre, it was like, you know, our savings. And so we knew, you know, if we couldn't necessarily be bailed out like that, like you would in a society that's got, you know, money in the bank. So I guess the risk was, I guess, the main challenge in starting up. But other than that, I mean, maybe I've got rose-coloured glasses on because it feels so long ago. But those first few shows of ours just were so magical. And whilst I'm sure there were challenges with, you know, people needing to drop out because they got really exciting opportunities or, yeah, I don't know, all the usual kind of challenges.

But I think that we were so passionate and excited about what we were creating that I don't remember feeling majorly challenged in those early times, especially because we did have that really great experience in kind of learning the ropes with MUSE.

[7:21] Rose McClelland: And I think also a big challenge that maybe wasn't so much of a challenge in the end was not having a blueprint. You know, we did, of course, kind of cut our teeth in MUSE, in student theatre. But we didn't know really anything about the independent theatre scene over the last six or so years. We've learned quite a lot. But going into it, we were just so fresh and bright-eyed and we just thought, we'll just try anything. And we're really just figuring it out as we went, which we still do to a certain degree. So that kind of challenge of not having any experience, I think, really worked in our favour and continues to work in our favour, you know, with no money and little resourcing and just, you know, relying on the support of our family and our friends and just our little community. We just make it work. We did then and we continue to now.

[8:20] Tori Bullard: It is amazing to see the progression of you guys since, like, Day Dot to now. And you've done so many incredible shows. And the fact that you guys just, like, had a vision and went for it and just, you know, went in and did it. Because not many people start their own independent theatre company.

[8:40] Alexander Andrews: Yeah, absolutely. And I guess something we are really proud of is that we kept going. We've seen, you know, I think a lot of people do love the idea of being able to put on a show and presenting one. But it is kind of rarer to see those theatre companies come back to do a second show, third show, fourth show, fifth show. And so that's something that I know I'm really proud of is that we've kept going, that we've had ups, we've had downs, there's been pandemics. But, yeah, we're a little company that's quite resilient. So we persevered.

[9:19] Rose McClelland: I was actually thinking that the fact you guys got through the pandemic as well and then came back is kind of wild.

[9:25] Alexander Andrews: Yeah, that was tough. We did lose the show then. We were two weeks out from jumping into the theatre before Anyone Can Whistle. So we lost that and haven't returned to it. But, yeah, we did have to kind of pivot after COVID. I mean, you know, coming out of that pandemic.

[9:44] Rose McClelland: Yeah, and we've changed the way we do things and we've kind of downsized a little bit and focused on different types of performance, you know, moving into more cabaret and comedy and, you know, still, you know, putting on a musical from time to time, but moving away from that kind of big musical every, you know, couple of months or so. We just had to.

[10:19] Alexander Andrews: Yeah. Yeah, I think everyone's had to kind of change it up a little bit and find new ways of creating even like the improvised shows or cabaret or new work, just like showcasing new work. So it's amazing to see kind of the shift in that.

[10:34] Rose McClelland: Absolutely. And we've had some amazing, brilliant artists come to us with ideas in the early years. It was really just Rose, Conrad and I kind of figuring out what should we do next? Kind of doing our own programming. But in recent years, yeah, people have come out of the woodwork and sort of had this idea or, you know, I want to put on an improvised musical. Could you help us do that? And that's really exciting. It's really nice to be seen as a little company that can support, you know, those up and coming and established artists as well in their ideas and their pursuits. That's really, really lovely.

[11:18] Alexander Andrews: Yeah, it's because it's hard to put yourself out there and, you know, it's great to have companies like yourself where even if you maybe can't necessarily directly help someone put on a show, you might be able to provide guidance because you've been there, you've done it, you've survived through a pandemic, which is a massive kudos to you guys, because the amount of things that just did not make it through the pandemic is astronomical, because it was hard. It was extremely, extremely hard. But it's so great to have you guys in the community, especially within Sydney, where we don't have a lot of independent theatre companies to kind of, I guess, lead the charge on how things can be done, how you can shift and change with the times, with the current state of the world.

And then, yeah, having that guiding light for people that, whether you can directly help or just provide guidance, is so important because there is, like you said, there's no blueprint. There's no, nobody can jump into this and know exactly what they're doing.

[12:18] Rose McClelland: Yeah, absolutely. And I think speaking of guidance, one thing we really love to do as well is like, I guess, referrals. So we've worked with so many amazing people over the years, and so people now come to us and say, oh, I need recommendations for someone who could do some, like, vocal directing or movement, or I need a performer for this kind of role. And we're thrilled to be able to offer those connections, or I need a photographer. And yeah, we've, we're just like so happy with everyone we've worked with.

[12:52] Alexander Andrews: Yeah, I'd really like to be able to try and pay it forward that way, especially when a lot of our work is very no to low fee. You know, it could be profit share with a small fee or profit share with little chance of a profit paying out. So being able to, I guess, still reward people for working with us and giving up their time and their talents to other work in future is also something we really love to do.

[13:21] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, absolutely. Because it's all, you know, so much of the theatre community is about literally community. And it's hard when you're, you know, don't know where to go, or you're looking for someone like really last minute. And, you know, being able to talk to someone that knows and knows people and has had experience and hopefully positive experience with them. And I think the thing of like, we don't, as performers, as creatives, we don't do this for money. Yeah, financial stability is delightful. But we don't do this because we expect a payout. And I think something that I get asked a lot since leaving my full time job at the beginning of the year is like, but like, you're not like, how do you make money?

And oh, you can only do shows that pay you. And I'm like, yes, like you can, you don't make money. I can just do shows that pay me. But also you can do shows and projects that are just going to be really creatively fulfilling, where you get to meet people, and you just get to do the thing. And there's a certain calibre that you're looking for that absolutely Little Triangle, I think, is just the example of, of independent theatre and exactly what it should be and how it can be and how collaborative and positive and just creatively enriching it is.

[14:49] Alexander Andrews: Absolutely. I mean, it's, it's all about collaboration. And it's, we always pinch ourselves with the incredible people who walk through those audition doors or come, you know, work as techs or designers or whatever, that these people, these incredibly talented, brilliant people want to work with us. And I think that's what it is. It is the pure collaboration. It's the play, it's the creation of the works. You know, it's so important to both of us that every single person in that room has a voice, has a say, is involved in the creation of the work. And so they can be proud of it at the other end, you know, at every step of the process. So I think it's that that brings people back. I'm not totally sure. But we love, love creating that space for artists to create, because that's what it's all about. You know, that's what we love to do.

[15:54] Eliza Gunther: Now, I think we're going to move into a little bit of a game for you guys. So on the note of the incredible achievements that you have made throughout the years, we're going to do a quiz. So we actually haven't done like a musical theatre quiz in a while. Rose is so good at quizzes.

[16:15] Rose McClelland: My competitive energy is just like shot through the roof.

[16:17] Eliza Gunther: Oh, hopefully this is fair, this one. This is actually about a lot of the shows you guys have done. So.

[16:25] Alexander Andrews: Well, then maybe Alex will have an edge on me here.

[16:27] Eliza Gunther: Okay, so we're going to start it off. Alex, you're going to go first.

[16:34] Alexander Andrews: Okay.

[16:35] Eliza Gunther: Okay. Who was not featured in Nine the movie musical? Was it A. Kate Hudson, B. Penelope Cruz or C. Renee Zellweger?

[16:46] Alexander Andrews: Renee. I mean, she would have been fantastic. She can do anything except play Judy Garland. But Renee, that's my answer.

[16:57] Eliza Gunther: You are indeed correct. It was not Renee. But I thought she would actually be really great in Nine.

[17:02] Rose McClelland: For sure.

[17:03] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, I think she would. I think she'd be fantastic. Alrighty, the next one is for Rose. Okay, so The Wild Party had seven Tony nominations. How many Tonys did it end up winning? Is it A. 4, B. 2 or C. 0?

[17:20] Rose McClelland: I don't think it's zero. Because, oh, okay, my gut just says two. And like, I'm a big like, when you're doing a quiz, gut first instinct.

[17:30] Eliza Gunther: You are incorrect. The answer is C. Zero.

[17:35] Rose McClelland: Zero!

[17:36] Eliza Gunther: They were robbed!

[17:36] Rose McClelland: Zero!

[17:39] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely robbed! Seven nominations and no Tony. Okay, Alex, you're in the lead. Let's go to the next one. So this is a bit of like a finish the lyric. So this is Seems we never know, do we? Who we're willing to find? A. Isn't it beautiful how artists capture us? B. And Louis the Baker is not what I had in mind. C. Where are the people out strolling on a Sunday?

[18:07] Alexander Andrews: Oh, it has to be Louis. It's everybody loves Louis. You asked me a Sondheim lyric question. I'm, they're etched in my brain. I think it's the only thing that's in my brain, really.

[18:20] Eliza Gunther: All right, Rose, yours is also a finish the lyrics, but this is finish the lyrics from On Monday in 35mm. So the lyric is On Monday, I met you. I liked you. I liked you. And is it A. It's Monday. Good day, but bad day for us. Good for us. Or B. It's Monday. Bad day, but good day for us. Good for us.

[19:10] Rose McClelland: Okay, okay. It's Monday. I think A. Wait, wait, which one? Which one? Say them again. A was It's Monday. Good day, but bad day for us. Good for us. Or B. It's Monday. Bad day, but good day for us. Good for us. The second one.

[19:23] Alexander Andrews: It's B. There's no multiple choice in this one. Beanie Feldstein and Ben Platt are set to star in a movie musical that will be filmed over numerous years to show the character's age progression. What show am I talking about?

[19:29] Rose McClelland: Alex. We probably can't say it together, can we?

[19:37] Alexander Andrews: Yeah, you know what? You can say it together. It's one of our favorite musicals. Merrily, we roll along. We tried something there, it didn't work and that's okay.

[19:54] Rose McClelland: No, it was cute, I liked it.

[20:01] Eliza Gunther: Well, thank you guys so much for playing our little quiz game. I think Alex has won technically on the technicality there. So I'm going to give it to Alex. Very nice.

[20:09] Eliza Gunther: Jumping back into it. So obviously you guys are now in rehearsals and getting ready to perform A Gay Escapade. For those listening, what is the show about? I'll let Alex take that one.

[20:21] Alexander Andrews: Oh, I'll take that one. Fantastic. Yeah, happy to. So A Gay Escapade is a review style show. It's a collection of Kander and Ebb music from shows like Chicago and Cabaret. And what we've done is we've taken a lot of their songs and we've queerified them essentially. So we've created queer characters and put them in queer kind of situations. And we follow a couple of different relationships throughout the show. It's a really exciting, beautiful celebration of queer love, queer friendship, queer community. Something that was really important to us when putting this together was really platforming queer joy. You know, there's so much beautiful queer theater out there that we love to see and love to explore.

And we didn't want to touch on any of the trauma or the hardship that, of course, is so important to put on stage and it's so important for audiences to see. But we just wanted to do something that is pure joy because we all have queer joy in our life. And why not celebrate it and put it on stage and through the music of the wonderful Kander and Ebb. Could it get any gayer? Yes.

[21:56] Eliza Gunther: I love it. I mean, did you guys come up with the concept or what kind of drove you to decide to put on this show? Was there someone that came to you or was it your own idea?

[22:01] Alexander Andrews: Yeah, something that inspired us was a production we put on a couple of years ago called Isn't It Queer, which was a collection of Stephen Sondheim music. And we've kind of used that as a blueprint. So that was a celebration, again, of queer love in a more Sondheim-y way. So we took that idea and we thought, how can we kind of do that again, but differently with new composers? So it's kind of riding off the success of that show, but also doing something completely new and completely different.

[22:44] Rose McClelland: Yeah, because I think it's this idea that, you know, queer artists have been around on our stages, writing music everywhere and touching every role in the theatre industry for as long as theatre has existed. Yet when you look at what goes, what the storylines are on Broadway stages, Western stages, it is very rarely those kind of queer stories. So we're sort of saying, hey, we're here, we've been creating this art that other people have performed. We've been creating stories that queer performers often perform, but that don't sort of showcase those experiences. So taking what's available, which is some of the most incredible music in the Broadway canon, and taking queer performers who are out here doing incredible musical theatre throughout Sydney and saying, hey, let's have them sort of showcase experiences that are real to them and are real to a large proportion of the population that has not seen too much of that on stage.

[23:46] Alexander Andrews: Yeah, absolutely. And the music of Kander and Ebb, I think, when you guys initially put the auditions out, it gave, I think, so many people, myself included, a chance to actually look at the repertoire of Kander and Ebb and go, there are some fantastic shows that I had never heard of, because I think I was talking to someone and they were like, oh, like Chicago and Cabaret. And I was like, yeah, but like, I was like, there's others, obviously, there has to be others. And looking at it, and like Floor and the Red Menace, there were so many things that I was like, these are all, and the fact that we've not heard them before. And the Broadway canon is so queer coded, yet there is so very, very painfully few stories that actually revolve around queer joy and queer love.

I guess, how did you guys navigate what songs to actually include and to not include in the creative process, especially finding your own storyline within that? And were there any sad songs, any songs that you were really sad to let go of?

[24:54] Alexander Andrews: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're so right, there's such a huge breadth of music that these two have written, not only for their shows, but outside of their shows. I mean, every song Liza Minnelli has ever sung was written by Kander and Ebb. So we had so much to kind of filter through and choose from. And something that I really like to do is, I love to introduce audiences to songs they may have never heard of before, or songs that they're maybe familiar with, but presented in a completely new way. And Kander and Ebb are just so much fun to delve into, because they're really kooky. You know, it's such a different kind of, I was speaking about Sondheim earlier, such a different style.

[25:43] Tori Bullard: Welcome back to Stage Door Podcast! We are here with Rose McClelland and Alexander Andrews from Little Triangle.

[26:13] Eliza Gunther: Yes, we’re so excited to have you both here!

[26:43] Rose McClelland: Thanks for having us!

[27:13] Alexander Andrews: It’s great to be here.

[27:29] Tori Bullard: So, let’s dive right in. Can you tell us a bit about how Little Triangle started?

[27:41] Rose McClelland: Absolutely! Little Triangle began as a way to create space for LGBTQIA+ stories in theatre.

[27:46] Alexander Andrews: We wanted to bring vibrant, diverse narratives to the stage that reflect our community.

[27:47] Tori Bullard: That’s amazing!

[28:00] Eliza Gunther: And what has the journey been like for you both in building this independent theatre company?

[28:10] Rose McClelland: It’s been a grind, to be honest. There are so many challenges, but the passion keeps us going.

[28:20] Alexander Andrews: Yes, and the support from the community has been incredible.

[28:30] Tori Bullard: That’s so important.

[28:40] Eliza Gunther: Speaking of support, can you tell us about your upcoming show, "A Gay Escapade"?

[28:50] Rose McClelland: "A Gay Escapade" is a vibrant musical celebration of the LGBTQIA+ experience, and we are so excited to share it with everyone!

[29:00] Alexander Andrews: It’s filled with humor, heart, and some really catchy tunes.

[29:10] Tori Bullard: Sounds like a blast!

[29:20] Eliza Gunther: How did you come up with the concept for the show?

[29:30] Rose McClelland: We wanted to create something that reflects the joy and struggles of our community, and we drew inspiration from our own experiences.

[29:40] Alexander Andrews: It’s all about celebrating love in all its forms.

[29:50] Tori Bullard: That’s beautiful!

[30:00] Eliza Gunther: And what can audiences expect when they come to see it?

[30:10] Rose McClelland: Expect to laugh, cry, and leave feeling uplifted!

[30:20] Alexander Andrews: We want everyone to feel included and represented.

[30:30] Tori Bullard: That’s what theatre is all about!

[30:40] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely!

[30:50] Rose McClelland: We’re also incorporating some interactive elements to engage the audience.

[31:00] Alexander Andrews: Yes, we want them to feel like they’re part of the experience.

[31:10] Tori Bullard: That’s such a fun idea!

[31:20] Eliza Gunther: How has the response been so far?

[31:30] Rose McClelland: The response has been overwhelmingly positive!

[31:40] Alexander Andrews: People are excited to see more LGBTQIA+ stories on stage.

[31:50] Tori Bullard: That’s fantastic!

[32:00] Eliza Gunther: What do you hope audiences take away from "A Gay Escapade"?

[32:10] Rose McClelland: We hope they leave feeling seen and celebrated.

[32:20] Alexander Andrews: And that they understand the importance of representation in theatre.

[32:30] Tori Bullard: That’s so important.

[32:40] Eliza Gunther: And what’s next for Little Triangle after this show?

[32:50] Rose McClelland: We have some exciting projects in the pipeline, but we can’t reveal too much just yet!

[33:00] Alexander Andrews: Stay tuned for more announcements!

[33:10] Tori Bullard: We will definitely be keeping an eye out!

[33:20] Eliza Gunther: Thank you both for joining us today!

[33:30] Rose McClelland: Thank you for having us!

[33:40] Alexander Andrews: It’s been a pleasure!

[33:50] Tori Bullard: And to our listeners, make sure to check out "A Gay Escapade" and support Little Triangle!

[34:00] Eliza Gunther: Yes, get your tickets!

[34:10] Rose McClelland: We can’t wait to see you there!

[34:20] Alexander Andrews: Thank you!

[34:30] Tori Bullard: Until next time, keep supporting indie theatre!

[34:40] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[34:50] Rose McClelland: Bye!

[35:00] Alexander Andrews: Bye!

[35:10] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[35:20] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[35:30] Rose McClelland: Bye!

[35:40] Alexander Andrews: Bye!

[35:50] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[36:00] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[36:10] Rose McClelland: Bye!

[36:20] Alexander Andrews: Bye!

[36:30] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[36:40] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[36:50] Rose McClelland: Bye!

[37:00] Alexander Andrews: Bye!

[37:10] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[37:20] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[37:30] Rose McClelland: Bye!

[37:40] Alexander Andrews: Bye!

[37:50] Tori Bullard: Bye!

[38:00] Eliza Gunther: Bye!

[38:10] Rose McClelland: Bye!

[38:20] Alexander Andrews: Bye!

[38:30] Tori Bullard: Bye!