This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Tori Bullard: You're listening to Stage Door Podcast.

[0:04] Eliza Gunther: The podcast celebrating theatre and creativity from on stage mishaps to career defining moments.

[0:10] Tori Bullard: Hosted by Thespians, myself, Tori, and co-host Eliza.

[0:14] Eliza Gunther: Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives, and more.

[0:20] Tori Bullard: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Stage Door Podcast.

[0:24] Eliza Gunther: Today we are spicing things up with an interview with our very own Tori.

[0:28] Tori Bullard: We are also joined again by the amazing Gareth Isaac, replacing them as my co-host today.

[0:35] Eliza Gunther: So, hello Gareth, welcome.

[0:37] Gareth Isaac: Hello, Eliza.

[0:38] Eliza Gunther: Thank you for having me.

[0:39] Tori Bullard: Well, well, well, Tori.

[0:41] Eliza Gunther: Your power has been transferred.

[0:43] Tori Bullard: It shall not be returned until I am sated.

[0:46] Eliza Gunther: How do you feel?

[0:48] Tori Bullard: I'm so nervous.

[0:52] Eliza Gunther: You're nervous!

[0:53] Tori Bullard: We do this all the time!

[0:55] Eliza Gunther: Oh no!

[0:56] Tori Bullard: I'm nervous!

[0:58] Eliza Gunther: Alright, before we get into the interview, we would like to acknowledge the Ganigal people of the Ayora Nation and the Tabal people of Ugera, the traditional custodians of the land on which we work, live, and record.

[1:08] Tori Bullard: And we recognise their continuing connection to land, water, and community.

[1:12] Eliza Gunther: Now, regular listeners will know a little bit about our lovely co-host Tori, but we thought we would give you a bit of spiel anyway.

[1:18] Tori Bullard: Like I said, I have power and I am going to use it.

[1:21] Eliza Gunther: A novelist, playwright, podcast presenter, and performing artist in their own right, Tori is about to bring the moving narrative of The Shift to audiences for the Sydney Fringe Festival, presenting a personal story in an intimate and powerful light.

[1:34] Tori Bullard: A Bachelor of Music Theatre graduate at AIM, Tori has applied their performance skills across both stage and screen, with their TV credits including the successful series Love Child.

[1:45] Eliza Gunther: Most recently, they have taken to the stage as the March Hare in a new Australian musical, Alice's Adventures.

[1:51] Tori Bullard: A project that has seen their contribution from 2021 through to the premiere performance in 2022.

[2:03] Eliza Gunther: Other performance highlights for Tori have included their roles as Celeste in Sunday in the Park with George and Abigail Williams in The Crucible.

[2:11] Tori Bullard: Over the past four years, Tori has harnessed their unique voice as a writer, allowing themselves to dig deeper into their creativity and share the realities of their world as they see it.

[2:20] Eliza Gunther: As a queer, non-binary artist, Tori's drawn from their own experiences and the community around them to form works reflective of a new era of writing, encompassing the perspectives of the LGBTQIA Plus community, a theme they continue to explore in their works, alongside the negotiations of daily life and the outcomes of these forces in their characters' actions.

[2:40] Tori Bullard: The Shift sees Tori's first published exploration of these ideas, brought to life by an incredible and diverse cast.

[2:47] Eliza Gunther: Alright, scale of one to ten. How did I do for the intro?

[2:50] Tori Bullard: Oh, absolutely fantastic.

[2:52] Gareth Isaac: Blitz.

[2:52] Tori Bullard: Thank you.

[2:53] Eliza Gunther: I'm very fresh to this.

[2:56] Tori Bullard: I love it.

[2:56] Eliza Gunther: I love it.

[2:59] Tori Bullard: Oh, well, hello, Tori.

[3:01] Tori Bullard: Hi.

[3:02] Eliza Gunther: I haven't just spent an hour with you.

[3:04] Tori Bullard: This is so I'm like, I was I prepared myself for this, but also I'm like sitting here like, yeah, it's weird being on the other side, isn't it?

[3:15] Gareth Isaac: It's so weird.

[3:16] Tori Bullard: You're not in control anymore.

[3:18] Eliza Gunther: I know.

[3:19] Tori Bullard: It’s very weird.

[3:20] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, you have made a terrible error in judgment.

[3:23] Tori Bullard: Oh my goodness.

[3:24] Eliza Gunther: Well, hello. I decided to do this today because Tori has been doing some incredible work lately and is also diving into this new, I guess, new era, new era of performer, writer, podcaster, all the above, and doing so incredibly well.

[3:43] Eliza Gunther: Um, can you tell us a little bit about what was the one thing that made you want to become a performer?

[3:49] Tori Bullard: Oh my. For me, I feel like it's the same for everyone. I've always been um a you know a theatrical kid. Um I actually started um from a young age I used to be a figure skater if you didn't know that I was a competitive figure skater which is a very weird sport for Australia. Um yeah growing up I was a figure skater and I was also homeschooled um and then I eventually moved into high school and I think growing up we always kind of went and saw like you know the big touring productions at like the Capitol and things like that.

[4:23] Tori Bullard: And then I started high school and I was at a visual arts high school and absolutely hated it with a passion and um you know I think I was given the option of when I was finishing year nine my mum gave me the option of I could either go and do a year abroad so go and do an exchange program for a year or I could move schools um and so I decided that I wanted to move schools um because I did not want to come back to the school that I was in and I um moved to a school called the Australian Performing Arts Grammar School APGS.

[5:02] Tori Bullard: I guess kind of the rest is history I saw Wicked when I was maybe in year seven and that was kind of a big turning point for me because that was you know anyone who goes to theatre with me knows that I always cry in an overture but I think when I heard the overture for Wicked for the first time I was like, oh, like that's what I want.

[5:21] Tori Bullard: I want to be one of those people up on stage belting for the gods. Then I went and studied music theatre, and here I am.

[5:32] Eliza Gunther: And then you met me.

[5:34] Tori Bullard: And then I did. I gave myself a really wicked concussion and met Eliza and I met Gareth and was just in awe of this very tall lanky man and was like, ah, and then continually asked me to edit your scripts for you throughout your entire university career.

[5:51] Gareth Isaac: Oh yeah.

[5:51] Tori Bullard: Well, once, maybe twice.

[5:55] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, well, a few times for the same script.

[5:57] Tori Bullard: I think I still have the draft somewhere on an archive.

[6:00] Tori Bullard: Terrible. So, speaking of script writing, this is in fact why we are here. You have written and are beginning to produce a play, which is incredible.

[6:10] Eliza Gunther: Tell us about The Shift.

[6:11] Tori Bullard: Um, so The Shift explores um a coming to terms with the truth of who you are and how becoming your true self impacts not only yourself but those around you.

[6:23] Tori Bullard: That is the little little spiel um that my absolutely fabulous producer Andy Freeborn wrote for this show. Because I even whilst I'm the person that wrote the show, I don't necessarily know how to explain it in the best way.

[6:37] Tori Bullard: Um The Shift is yeah, it's this ex this let me try that again. It explores coming to terms with who you are, um, and being your truest self.

[6:53] Tori Bullard: Um so it follows um it follows a few different characters, but the main characters that it follows are Jamie and August, um, who are at one of their usual weekly movie dates to the cinema, um, and are kind of you know, struggling with their own things a bit, um, and August kind of, you know, in a very unintentional way, spoiler alert, tells Jamie that they think that they're trans.

[7:26] Tori Bullard: Um, and they think that they are actually a trans woman. Um so it's this exploration of not only this um, you know, coming out and coming to terms with it, but also the impact that it has on them both individually and also the people around them in the cinema.

[7:43] Tori Bullard: There are also a few other characters in this show. Um, we have Alexis, Naomi, and Peter, and it kind of comes to terms with your gender identity, your sexual identity, um, and also just, you know, uh there are a lot of um topics discussed in it, like body image, um, you know, self-deprecation, things like that, um, coping mechanisms, and yeah, it kind of just deals with that and um looks as well as people's internal monologues and you know, um, that old trait of, you know, when you're walking down the street and you make eye contact with someone and you're like, oh my god, that person thinks I look awful.

[8:28] Tori Bullard: They think I look really bad, and that person's just strumming around being like, yeah, I feel like chicken fingers for tonight.

[8:35] Tori Bullard: Yeah, that's what I can do as an adult. Um, you know, getting into people's mentality, um talking about neurodivergence, mental health, and gender identity.

[8:46] Eliza Gunther: I wish I could come and see it, but obviously I can't.

[8:49] Tori Bullard: But I shall be getting the script, don't you worry.

[8:53] Eliza Gunther: But what do you think inspired like what inspired you to write this story in the first place?

[8:58] Tori Bullard: It's it was in a really roundabout weird way. Um I never as many people who work in the creative field, I was like, I'm never gonna write a show.

[9:09] Tori Bullard: Like I have many friends, for example, Andy, who has written fabulous, amazing shows, and I've always looked at them and been like, I could never do that, and I would never do that.

[9:19] Tori Bullard: And I'm like, that's your thing, you're amazing. Um I actually did um an ATYP um creating your own work writing course, but I went into it because um I've always been a writer in a sense, but I more so in like a novel sense, like writing books.

[9:37] Tori Bullard: Um, and I actually went to learn how to write better dialogue because I've always hated writing dialogue.

[9:43] Tori Bullard: But part of that course was we did need to write and present an excerpt of a script, or just like you know, write a scene and present a scene.

[9:52] Tori Bullard: And I was just writing something super like casual, I guess. I was writing something um loosely based on my recital because I was like, that's what I already know, and I've already kind of got a basis for it.

[10:02] Tori Bullard: And we had this wonderful conversation about sharing stories that other people are not able to share themselves, whether it be someone that is not a creative, whether it's someone that is not comfortable sharing it themselves, but would want to share it through someone else.

[10:17] Tori Bullard: Um, and my wonderful partner Danielle had um recently and probably about a year prior, come out as trans.

[10:27] Tori Bullard: Um, and I thought that there was this really interesting part of our story that I had not seen previously in media in any form, which was you know, the ups and downs, the negatives, and also the impact that it has on the people around us.

[10:43] Tori Bullard: And after kind of having a bit of a conversation with her I decided that I was just gonna start working on this because the piece that I was writing at the time I was like this is boring like I I don't want to write I don't want to read this let alone write it.

[10:59] Tori Bullard: And I just decided to give it a try and wrote a first scene that I presented at the end of this course and had a couple of people say to me like that's really good and you should share this story and that was in the beginning of 2021 maybe and I kind of was like yeah cool and then once the course was done I just didn't touch it again.

[11:22] Tori Bullard: And it wasn't until the classic writer thing of I've written something wonderful.

[11:28] Tori Bullard: I'm gonna leave it alone.

[11:29] Tori Bullard: And because I had this fear of you know editing it because I had written an entire script because at first I was just gonna write a scene and then I kind of started writing and didn't want to stop writing and wrote an entire script and but it was like yep nope that's done.

[11:43] Tori Bullard: We're not gonna touch that again and then I started doing another show and was talking to people at that show about about my piece just like in passing about what I'd been doing in the past year.

[11:56] Tori Bullard: Somebody asked to read it somebody gave me notes and I once again I looked at those notes and was like yep cool put those away not ever touching this again and I was having a conversation with a friend and the beautiful Christelle Zabara and she was like well, Sydney Fringe is coming up, why not just do that?

[12:18] Tori Bullard: And I was like, nah.

[12:19] Eliza Gunther: And but then here and then and then here we are.

[12:24] Tori Bullard: You said no to it and then immediately did the thing.

[12:27] Eliza Gunther: This is the most Tori move I've ever heard.

[12:30] Tori Bullard: It definitely sounds like we're writing what we know at the moment with The Shift.

[12:33] Tori Bullard: Like you're utilizing real life experience into this frankly wonderful sounding story.

[12:39] Eliza Gunther: So let's talk about the Sydney Fringe for a hot second.

[12:43] Eliza Gunther: So you're producing something for the first time.

[12:46] Tori Bullard: Like I know what that's like.

[12:47] Eliza Gunther: I've done Sydney Fringe myself, wrote a cabaret and put it on a few years back.

[12:51] Tori Bullard: So for those who don't know, tell us what does the process of getting that kind of work up look like.

[12:56] Tori Bullard: Oh, that's a wonderful question, and I'm not the person to ask that question because I am not producing it.

[13:01] Tori Bullard: I have a producer.

[13:03] Tori Bullard: My fabulous producer Andy, which it's so funny.

[13:07] Tori Bullard: Um Andy was the writer of um Alice's Adventures.

[13:11] Tori Bullard: It was weird because so once Christelle had kind of you know said Sydney Fringe, it's free to apply.

[13:16] Tori Bullard: I was like, you know what? I'll get some information, see what the deal is.

[13:20] Tori Bullard: And I am a bit I'm a redhead. I'm a l I'm a little I'm a little dim sometimes, and put my information in, put the title of the show, The Shift in, um, hoping that it would kind of send me an email or you know it would take me to where I could find more information.

[13:38] Tori Bullard: And then I got the singer to like, congratulations, you're registered for Sydney Fringe, and I was like, What?

[13:45] Tori Bullard: I was like, I that's not what I wanted to do. That's no no. And then I was like, I said that to Christelle, and Christelle was like, Great, you're doing it. And I was like, no, I was not uh panic, like panicked, messaged Andy and was like, Hey, remember when you read that script of mine like a year ago and you said that like you know, if I ever wanted to do that, you'd be really interested. Hey, well, I've accidentally kind of organized edit and I'm doing it. Um, help me, please. I don't know what I'm doing. Um, and Andy and I had a sit-down together and um kind of talked about what I wanted from the show, how I kind of saw it, you know, progressing, and then he was like, Yep, cool, let's do it. And I think I'm I'm very blessed to have Andy as my producer because if not, I don't know if I would be where I am with the show because I would have no idea what I'm doing. Very, very lucky to have someone as wonderful as the brilliant Andy on my team.

[14:45] Tori Bullard: In terms of producing it, I don't know too much about that side, but for us, we decided because this is the first kind of iteration of it being on stage, that we wanted to work with a group of people um that we kind of knew and trusted with this work and trusted to also be willing to workshop it, knowing that this is not a final work, like the first script I gave to them, the first reading we did, an entire scene. I was like big black marker, like absolutely not. That is cut, we are completely redoing that. Um so we have um such a wonderful, wonderful cast. Um, so we decided not to audition and just kind of to reach out to people, see if they would be interested, give them a copy of the script and go from there.

And we have the fantastic Jess Ramsey as the dramaturg for this show. Um, and uh they have done absolute wonders so far. Um, but as for producing it, I could not tell you other than it's really scary. Um, doing things like the logo design um by the wonderful garden song on Instagram, who I will link down below. And he was like, What are you thinking for the design? And I was like, Oh my god, I have zero idea. I was like, outside of this script, I am absolutely useless, other than um being neurodiverse, um, sorry, neurodivergent, neurodiverse, neurodivergent, neurodivergent. Um, I have a lot of like sound and lighting kind of images in my head of how this works. Um, but Andy was like, Well, this is kind of what I'm imagining for the logo, and I was like, Yep, that's that's exactly what was in my brain, but I don't know how to put that into words. You go be free.

[16:32] Eliza Gunther: Yeah. Actually, on that note, you you're actually doing some um performances that are are they low sensory performances? Is that correct?

[16:41] Tori Bullard: So we are doing um two performances of this show. Sorry, my AirPods are dying, so I'm just gonna whack that in there. Two performances of the show Thursday the 15th of September and Saturday the 17th. And the Thursday showing is going to be um a sensory-friendly production, and it will also be Auslan interpreted. So it just means that things like the lighting, the sounds, everything will kind of be to a much lower extent. It will not be to the full extent of what it would normally be for the show. Um, and because the show does deal with um, you know, at least two of the characters in this show are neurodiverse, um, and a lot of the actors in this show are also neurodiverse. So we want to make it a really safe space for people to be able to come and see the show and feel comfortable.

So having the lighting, you know, up a little bit more so people can see their surroundings if people need to stim, if they need to move, they can, and they're they're more than welcome to. And it will also be Auslan interpreted because um I want to make this an accessible space for everyone, and as someone that is um neurodivergent, um I want it to be a space that I would feel comfortable seeing a show in, therefore I wanted to make it comfortable for audiences as well. So we're really lucky to be working with the 107 theatre. That is an accessible performance space.

[18:01] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, marvelous stuff. And this is what I love about Sydney Fringe. They do actually give you the tools and the opportunity to do things like this. If this were a larger scale performance, say something at Belvoir, you would have one show potentially towards the end of the run that would be low sensory for people who like us are neurodivergent.

[18:20] Tori Bullard: Hello, I'm part of the gang as well. Let's go gang. Yes. It's alright. Scale of one to ten, it's like a seven.

[18:29] Eliza Gunther: So let's talk rehearsal processes. Like, because it's a new work, I'm guessing rehearsals would have changed all the time. So tell me about what it's been like so far. Like, what's it like hearing the work come to life, so to speak.

[18:42] Tori Bullard: Oh, it is insane. The first reading that we did all together on our first rehearsal was so so wonderful. And to give you a glimpse into the the wonderful uh brilliant cast that we have, we have Caitlin Copperbeck as Jamie and Zachary Alexander as August, who are two leads. Then we do also have the absolutely incomparably talented Cassie Hamilton as oh no, I always get the two characters mixed up. How bad is that? I wrote the show. Oh yeah, what's his name? So we have the um insanely talented creative Cassie Hamilton as Alexis and Addy Roberts as Naomi. And of course, someone who I'm yet to meet, and I'm so excited I finally get to work with them on Monday is Patrick Howard as Peter. It's been insane because the first time reading it, um a few of these people were involved in the first table reading we ever did in June this year.

And I had a really specific um person in mind for the role of Jamie because of kind of their mannerisms and the way that they talk and the way that they act um and when Andy came to me and was like hey who do you want to to play this role? And I was like, I might be reaching for the stars because she's doing she's she's making her way up in the world but I want Caitlin Copper back. I was like that's the oh that's she is perfect. Um and when she said yes I was like sitting on the phone with Andy and I was like yes it's all coming together.

[20:22] Eliza Gunther: I remember getting the messages and you were like I'm so excited and I'm like I'm so excited this is amazing.

[20:29] Tori Bullard: And that that's the joyous booking an actor like Caitlin. She's always just so happy to do whatever. Like despite all the success that she's having all these wonderful projects that are going on the up and up you throw her a ball and she will knock it right back at you saying let's go.

[20:46] Eliza Gunther: A hundred percent.

[20:47] Tori Bullard: Yeah and so far the casts have been like an absolute dream to work with they're so open and willing to have conversation about the characters and to delve deeper into them. Um you know it's definitely been a workshopping process of kind of also for me hearing the words out loud and I guess acted for the first time and going, oop, that that kind of doesn't really work how I want it to, um, and giving a lot of um creative handling to the cast as well to be like, hey, this isn't sitting really well for me. This is what I want to be kind of portrayed here. Can you have a little bit of a play around with that and kind of see what feels most natural? So it's been so wonderful having such a wonderful cast that is so open and willing to workshop this with me.

Um, because it's really something that I've had to get my head around that this is not when I presented them the the draft or the script that they were working on in the first rehearsal, having to be like, it's okay, this isn't the final draft, Tori. You know that it's not the final draft, they know it's not the final draft, but there was always this thing with me being like every draft I said has to be the one where they're like, amazing, no edits, we don't need to change anything. Um I um as the writer feel really comfortable saying. I'm happy with some improvisation to kind of happen with it. Um, if it makes it feel more naturalistic to them, because it really we really are leaning into um the naturalism side of theatre with this show.

So it's been wonderful so far with the rehearsal process, and we're two weeks out. When this comes out, we'll be one week out, which is terrifying. Um, but so wonderful because I still can't believe that this is whenever I see them do it, I'm just absolutely in awe of these actors to bring this piece of mine to life. I never thought, you know, that I would do something like this. And the fact that also having to remind myself that um, because you know, good old-fashioned imposter syndrome that they want to do this, and the people are excited to see this. It yeah, it brings me so much so much joy.

[23:01] Eliza Gunther: Oh, you've you've been working so hard as well for so many years, and not only you know we experience all the life experiences, but you've always been very into into writing and writing um you know novels and writing other things, so it's it's really cool to kind of see your two different sides of Tori kind of combine into this like mega ultimate, you know, uh transformer, I guess you could say, of your writing side and your performing side coming together to create something really special, which is most definitely.

[23:32] Tori Bullard: Yeah, you've done the fusion dance, you've created one mega performer, it'll last for 30 minutes.

[23:38] Eliza Gunther: That's a Dragon Ball reference.

[23:40] Tori Bullard: Exactly.

[23:41] Eliza Gunther: So I guess like where do you want to see the work in the future? Are you hoping to put it on again or are you hoping you know, where do you want to see it?

[23:50] Tori Bullard: I do, um obviously I think it is really dependent on how this first run at Sydney Fringe goes, but and I feel like we've had this conversation with other people before on on the podcast. Um independent theatre in Australia is really hard to get on more than once, but that is currently I think really being proven wrong, especially by people like Sarah Carroll, who we've had on before, who's doing Cherry and who's gonna be doing it at Sydney Fringe again and is also gonna be now doing it at Melbourne Fringe. Um I I want this show to keep going and keep growing. Um I would love to possibly do maybe next year some other fringe festivals. I would love to maybe have an independent run of the show if if all goes well and um you know it resonates with audiences, but I know that it's maybe not a show that is gonna resonate with everyone.

I mean I hope it does and I would really love for it to keep going and keep growing and keep working on it because I have now learnt that I will never be finished editing this show and making changes.

[24:58] Tori Bullard: Yeah I want it I want it to I want it to get another run. I would love it to get a longer run as well because we will only be getting two nights which I am so grateful to be having more than one night because a big thing for me was having an accessible showing of it where I could make it um neurodiverse friendly and also Auslan interpreted. But I'd love it to have a longer run and have more time to work with my actors because we've we've had you know quite a small rehearsal period uh which they've done phenomenally in yeah I want to I want it I want it to keep going I want it to keep growing and see well it's in the right growing space for it. The Sydney Fringe definitely loves to harbour and nurture up and coming works and plays.

Like so many shows from Sydney will end up going to Edinburgh for example. There's like a most prepared for Edinburgh award at the fringe awards each year I believe so I can't wait to see how well your show does. It's gonna be so exciting.

[25:53] Tori Bullard: Thank you. So let's take a little break, give Tori a little bit of water for a second so I can introduce us to our game for this episode.

[26:04] Eliza Gunther: Dun dun dun yes I've been given too much power again.

[26:09] Tori Bullard: You've let me off the chain and I cannot be rechained.

[26:13] Eliza Gunther: This is a game of trivia, my friends.

[26:18] Eliza Gunther: I'm calling this trivia that is potentially heavily biased towards our guest.

[26:22] Tori Bullard: Oh, I love that.

[26:23] Eliza Gunther: I love that.

[26:25] Eliza Gunther: Because these are in fact all questions about Tori.

[26:29] Tori Bullard: Oh my god, no!

[26:32] Eliza Gunther: This is gonna be so embarrassing if I get them wrong.

[26:35] Tori Bullard: That's alright.

[26:36] Eliza Gunther: Like I said, it's heavily biased towards our guests, so who knows?

[26:39] Tori Bullard: Exactly, exactly.

[26:42] Eliza Gunther: Woo!

[26:44] Tori Bullard: Oh god, I'm a mess.

[26:46] Eliza Gunther: Alright, so we're not operating on the uh giving each person a question variant this time.

[26:51] Eliza Gunther: It's the first person to shout the answer out.

[26:54] Tori Bullard: Okay.

[26:55] Eliza Gunther: Oh my god, Kate.

[26:56] Eliza Gunther: Because that that's how we roll today.

[26:58] Tori Bullard: I love it.

[26:59] Eliza Gunther: Okay, qu question number one.

[27:01] Eliza Gunther: What year did Tori graduate from AIM?

[27:04] Tori Bullard: Oh Tori!

[27:05] Eliza Gunther: Just yell out the answer.

[27:07] Tori Bullard: So he's 17.

[27:08] Eliza Gunther: Yep, there we go.

[27:10] Tori Bullard: I got it!

[27:11] Eliza Gunther: Yes!

[27:12] Eliza Gunther: Apparently Tori graduated in the year Tori, according to Tori.

[27:12] Tori Bullard: According to Tori.

[27:16] Eliza Gunther: Yes.

[27:19] Eliza Gunther: I was very clear with the rules.

[27:21] Eliza Gunther: The rules were clear.

[27:22] Tori Bullard: I just completely ignored it.

[27:23] Eliza Gunther: Tori might photo play.

[27:25] Tori Bullard: You know what? I'm hurt, but I'll allow it.

[27:29] Eliza Gunther: Alright, question two.

[27:31] Gareth Isaac: What is Tori's Twitch, Instagram, and TikTok handle?

[27:35] Tori Bullard: Neverland!

[27:37] Gareth Isaac: Tori got it out first.

[27:39] Tori Bullard: Yay, I win!

[27:40] Tori Bullard: I win at knowing my own name!

[27:42] Eliza Gunther: We are a point each.

[27:44] Gareth Isaac: Okay.

[27:45] Eliza Gunther: Alright.

[27:46] Gareth Isaac: This one's a good one. What is the name of Tori's Dungeons and Dragons character?

[27:51] Tori Bullard: Oh god.

[27:53] Eliza Gunther: Which one?

[27:55] Tori Bullard: Oh god.

[27:57] Tori Bullard: Um. What's the one that I would know?

[27:59] Eliza Gunther: Morigana!

[28:00] Tori Bullard: There he is, thank you. I had no hope. I had no hope.

[28:05] Eliza Gunther: I'm a bad friend.

[28:08] Tori Bullard: Or potentially, I'm just chaotic.

[28:10] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, but yeah.

[28:11] Tori Bullard: That works too. Here's a very good one. What was Tori's go-to audition monologue in 2021?

[28:17] Gareth Isaac: Oh no, I'm gonna have no clue.

[28:21] Tori Bullard: Um It was Anna Rovy and the House of Dogs.

[28:25] Gareth Isaac: Correct. Was that or it was Helena from a Midsummer Night's Dream?

[28:31] Tori Bullard: Both would have been acceptable.

[28:32] Gareth Isaac: Well, we have one final question.

[28:34] Eliza Gunther: Okay.

[28:35] Gareth Isaac: And this one is so specific. What is the name of the fantasy author that Gareth is continuously pestering Tori to read?

[28:46] Tori Bullard: Oh my gosh. Brando Sando?

[28:48] Gareth Isaac: Correct. I also would have accepted Bandison Sanderson or B Sand.

[28:52] Tori Bullard: Brandon Sanderson. He has the silliest fucking name in the history of authors.

[28:56] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, look.

[28:57] Tori Bullard: I love it. I had no hope there, guys. Absolutely zero hope.

[29:01] Gareth Isaac: But I got one in.

[29:02] Tori Bullard: I'm you got one in, congratulations.

[29:06] Tori Bullard: Look. You're aware of what year I graduated, unlike me, I always say 2018.

[29:10] Gareth Isaac: No, because I graduated in 2018, so I knew I was like, it's 2017.

[29:15] Tori Bullard: And this, my friends, is yet another example of why Gareth should not be allowed to run the game.

[29:21] Gareth Isaac: Thank you.

[29:23] Eliza Gunther: No, we love it. We love it.

[29:24] Tori Bullard: We love it. So let's get back. Let's dive right back into the interview. Uh dear sweet Tori. So this show is based not only on the journey of you observing a partner suddenly realizing that they are trans, but I believe also just your general life experience as a whole.

[29:42] Tori Bullard: So your own journey with your gender and sexuality has evolved over the past few years. I think we're safe to say that. So has this then impacted the stories that you write and the works you create?

[29:53] Tori Bullard: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's definitely something, and I think also through my writing has also helped me. Like has also evolved my gender identity as well. I do now identify as non-binary because for me and non-binary it means very different things for everyone. Um for me it just means I am Tory. I don't identify as male or female. Um I just identify as Tori, a human living on this earth that exists here.

[30:23] Eliza Gunther: And we love you is me.

[30:25] Tori Bullard: So it's definitely um helped me as well. For me, I was never kind of I think I've just always been queer. I've never like had like that big coming out where I've been like, Mum, dad, I'm gay. I think my family have just always kind of known that I'm was like a little fruity, and so I do identify as aborosexual um non-binary. If you don't know what abosexual means, the easiest way to describe it is um sexual fluidity.

[30:52] Tori Bullard: And I think they've just always known that. So for me it's made writing works like this really important because for the longest time for being introduced to things like non-binary and things like abosexuality, I legitimately felt like there was something incorrect with me, like there was something wrong. Like I was like, I shouldn't feel this way. This is like some like I don't know, I'm I'm wrong, I shouldn't be this way. Um other people aren't this way. Um and then thanks to theatre and the theatre community, and also again a big shout out to Andy who introduced me to Avrosexuality, and pretty much from the moment that they described it to me, I was like, oh my god. For years, this is what I've been feeling, and that puts a name to it.

[31:39] Tori Bullard: Not that you have to label it, but for me that really helped in going, okay, I'm not wrong, this is a thing, and other people also experience it, which is lovely. And fun fact, Abrosexuality Day is on the 2nd of July, which is my birthday. It's also Andy's birthday. Um, so we celebrate being cute little envy abrosexuals on our birthday. Um but it's impacted the stories that I write because I want to make everyone feel seen. I want um, and obviously I can't make everyone feel seen because I can only write about my own personal experience and for example my partner Danny's experience. Um but I want to make people feel like they're seen not only in life but also in theatre and make it um a diverse and open space for everyone.

[32:34] Tori Bullard: Um so I think it's really helped me having this personal experience come to terms not only with my own sexuality, but hopefully maybe help other people know that there is nothing wrong with who they are, that um the most important thing is to be you and to be comfortable with who you are, and it's okay to be uncomfortable with who you are because sometimes it takes a while to you know learn who you are, and it's also okay that that will constantly change, which is also um a big part of this story that I'm telling that um change is scary, and I know that it's scary because I am constantly afraid of change. Um, but it happens, and that's that's life, change is gonna happen, and we just have to panic a little bit, breathe and just let what happens happen.

[33:29] Eliza Gunther: Um because as much as we can try and change it, as much as we can try and change who we are and make ourselves something else, we will always be who we are and who we're meant to be.

[33:39] Gareth Isaac: I guess because like as well, you were writing about your own life experiences and with Danny as well. Like, how is that then writing the work and then taking it and being like, hi, hi babe, like here's here it is, and like do you wanna read it and things like that. How did that experience feel to you and like what was that like?

[34:00] Tori Bullard: Yeah, that was a weird experience, I think for both of us because I've had a lot of input from Danny in this um for August's specific scenes, especially for internal monologue scenes. Um we really sat down and kind of worked together through um what it was like for her coming out, um, which I know is a very hard thing for her to talk about. So I'm so grateful that she is so um comfortable and opening and willing to have these conversations with me.

[34:34] Tori Bullard: Um so pretty much Danny has not been able to listen to any of it.

[34:39] Gareth Isaac: Oh wow.

[34:41] Tori Bullard: So she has I've had her read, I think um uh an August scene once, because obviously August is very heavily based on her and her experience. And I've had her read it, I think, once, and she read it, she was like, thumbs up.

[34:58] Gareth Isaac: That's what you want.

[35:01] Tori Bullard: She was like, is good. Um but I can understand how uh traumatic that would that is and can be for someone who is trans and is transitioning um to relive such an awful like part of your life where you were so uncomfortable with who you are that you had this realization that okay because this is not who I am it's definitely been a weird experience it's also been a very confronting experience I think for us both um because I had to come to terms with a lot of the um you know this is not necessarily a light and fluffy piece of theatre um it does deal with mental health and mental illness um and also the negative sides of this which is what we wanted to show we didn't want to show a berries and cream version of it where it was just like everyone was happy and um you know this person has come out and you're like yippee let's run off into the sunset together we showed that you know love is not always easy um when you love someone sometimes things are really hard um and also I think especially for neurodivergent brain you jump to things really quickly um so for the character of Jamie negative thoughts come really quickly um and then not even negative thoughts about the other person it's negative thoughts about themselves like what have I done wrong what have I done to make this happen?

[36:22] Tori Bullard: So it has been quite confronting but also has also almost been a way to come to terms with that part of life and also knowing that um I never meant any of the thoughts that I had nor did mean any of the negative thoughts that she had in a detrimental way or a way that continued after those split second thoughts like they were split second thoughts yeah that then were gone and never came back. Because we're all human and that's speak for yourself I'm a beep boob bro exactly.

[36:53] Gareth Isaac: Like we are all human and that's like part of the life is messy, life isn't perfect, life isn't the most um straightforward of love stories, I guess you could say.

[37:05] Tori Bullard: So I I agree.

[37:07] Gareth Isaac: Yeah there's that wonderful old phrase grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

[37:16] Tori Bullard: That I think is exemplified a lot in what you're talking about, Tori.

[37:21] Gareth Isaac: Exactly.

[37:22] Tori Bullard: Yeah. So it's it's been so fulfilling to work on this piece and I and I hope that people will um relate to it in the way that we relate to this story being told.

[37:31] Eliza Gunther: 100%. So Tori tell us have you got any other works in the process of being written? Obviously the shift has taken up a big amount of your time but have you got anything else on the back burner?

[37:41] Tori Bullard: I guess I do, yes. Um obviously yes the shift has taken up a lot of my time and also I do work full time and I I I I do a lot. I work full time I obviously have this wonderful podcast which I love very dearly. Have been working on the shift also trying to like you know just live a normal life as well.

[38:03] Tori Bullard: Um but I do have um not another play in the works at the moment um at the moment this is my main focus but I do have a cabaret that um for some crazy moment when I applied for French I was like yeah I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna put a cabaret doesn't sound like you at all and someone um another producer who I was talking with who was interested in doing this cabaret with me.

[38:27] Tori Bullard: We had the great conversation with where she was like yes, love it, let's do it, but also can like will you will you mentally survive it? And I was like, you know what? Probably not.

[38:38] Tori Bullard: Um, so I decided to put that on the back burner. Um, but I do have a cabaret that I would like to um hopefully do a run of next year that I'm still very much still very early in development, but it's all about neurodivergence and that side of life and also about gender identity.

[38:56] Tori Bullard: But it's a cabaret, which is much more my kind of thing. People often ask me why I'm not in the shift, like why I'm just writing it and not in it, and like because it's very real for me, and it's also because I've written it a certain way. The way that Caitlin has taken the role of Jamie and made it her own is so phenomenal, and I would never have been able to do that myself because I would have been like, This is how I wrote it, therefore this is how I'm going to perform it.

[39:24] Tori Bullard: Um, whereas a cabaret for me is just like a really heightened version of myself. So I feel much more comfortable, obviously, performing that myself, and it is much more my forte. So yeah, I do have a cabaret that is currently titled Train of Thought.

[39:41] Eliza Gunther: Love that.

[39:42] Tori Bullard: Um, because it takes place on a train.

[39:44] Eliza Gunther: Um choo choo.

[39:45] Tori Bullard: Yes, a choo choo.

[39:47] Eliza Gunther: Yeah. Well, we can't wait to see it come out, and as well as we can't wait to see the shift. For those who are interested, the shift is happening at 107 Redfern on the Thursday the 15th and Saturday the 17th of September.

[39:58] Tori Bullard: For more information, head to Sydneyfringe.com. Tori, we're so excited.

[40:02] Eliza Gunther: Thank you for I guess joining us, even though you're here every time.

[40:07] Tori Bullard: It was so weird.

[40:09] Eliza Gunther: Thank you for indulging me in this. This was really weird, and I now understand how unprepared I felt.

[40:15] Gareth Isaac: Yeah, yeah.

[40:17] Tori Bullard: Well, it's uh it was definitely something we wanted to do because we wanted you guys, like the audience, to also get to know a little bit about what we're doing, and um, this is like the perfect opportunity because it's such a um amazing moment in your career and in your journey as a writer.

[40:33] Eliza Gunther: So we definitely had to do it, and it was fun having Gareth here as my co-host.

[40:38] Gareth Isaac: Like I gotta say, I'm getting used to the hot seat.

[40:41] Gareth Isaac: I'm I'm okay with this.

[40:42] Tori Bullard: It's great, isn't it?

[40:45] Gareth Isaac: It's good being on like the the question side because you're like, oh yeah, and then you're just asking them all the questions, and now Tori's like exactly.

[40:52] Tori Bullard: Also, I didn't have to do any research into musicals.

[40:54] Gareth Isaac: No, like this is this is great.

[40:56] Tori Bullard: I didn't have to come in prepared, I just had to know how to ask questions.

[40:59] Gareth Isaac: I know it's it's brilliant, it's brilliant.

[41:01] Eliza Gunther: Well, thank you guys so much, and thank you, Tori, for sharing all of this with us. We hope you all enjoyed, and until next time, stay happy, healthy, and safe.

[41:11] Tori Bullard: And we will see you then.

[41:12] All: Bye.