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[0:02] Tori Bullard: You're listening to Stage Door Podcast.

[0:05] Eliza Gunther: The podcast celebrating theatre and creativity from onstage mishaps to career-defining moments.

[0:11] Tori Bullard: Hosted by Thespians, myself, Tori, and co-host Eliza.

[0:15] Eliza Gunther: Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives, and more.

[0:22] Tori Bullard: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Stage Door Podcast.

[0:25] Tori Bullard: Today we are joined by performer Stefanie Caccamo.

[0:29] Tori Bullard: Before we get started, we would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eero Nation and the Tabal people of Yeguera, the traditional custodians of this land on which we work, live and record, and recognize their continuing connection to land, water, and community.

[0:42] Eliza Gunther: We pay respect to Elders past, present, and emerging.

[0:46] Tori Bullard: Originally from Sydney, Stefanie graduated in 2016 from the Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts, WAPA, with a Bachelor of Arts in Musical Theatre.

[0:56] Tori Bullard: Stefanie made her professional debut in the Australian Tour of Beautiful, the Carol King musical, playing the role of Betty and understudying the role of Carol King.

[1:04] Tori Bullard: Since then, her theatre roles have included Alice in the Australian premiere of Lizzie at the Hayes Theatre Company, and Lori in Richard Carroll's Reimagined Oklahoma.

[1:14] Tori Bullard: As well as the role of Girl in Once with Darlinghurst Theatre Company, for which she was nominated for Best Female Actor in a Musical at both the Sydney Theatre Awards and the Glug Awards in 2019.

[1:27] Tori Bullard: Chrissy in the 50th anniversary tour of Hair the Musical with Sydney Opera House and Pete's Productions.

[1:33] Tori Bullard: The title role in Irene, Eve Harrington in Applause, opposite Caroline O'Connor and Agnes in a Meet Me in St. Louis with the Hayes Theatre Company and Neglected Musicals.

[1:43] Tori Bullard: In 2017, Stefanie was a finalist in the Rob Guest Endowment competition, winning the Melbourne East End Theatre District Award.

[1:51] Tori Bullard: Please welcome to the mic, Stefanie.

[1:54] Stefanie Caccamo: Hello.

[1:57] Stefanie Caccamo: It's a lot, isn't it, to get through.

[2:01] Tori Bullard: No, thank you so much for having me.

[2:03] Stefanie Caccamo: I'm thrilled.

[2:03] Eliza Gunther: Thank you so much for coming on.

[2:05] Stefanie Caccamo: Wow, my face says I'm thrilled.

[2:06] Stefanie Caccamo: I just realized my voice didn't say I'm thrilled.

[2:08] Stefanie Caccamo: I am thrilled.

[2:11] Eliza Gunther: It's a bit like that sometimes.

[2:13] Stefanie Caccamo: I like say something and it just and listening back, I'm like, why do I sound bored?

[2:17] Eliza Gunther: This like that was not my face.

[2:19] Stefanie Caccamo: Totally.

[2:20] Stefanie Caccamo: That was not my face.

[2:22] Eliza Gunther: No.

[2:23] Stefanie Caccamo: I know it's obvious.

[2:24] Stefanie Caccamo: I have like resting bitch voice.

[2:29] Eliza Gunther: That's a good one. I'll have to use that.

[2:32] Eliza Gunther: But how are you? How are you going? Obviously, right now you are in Lizzie.

[2:36] Stefanie Caccamo: When this comes out, sadly, Lizzie will have closed.

[2:39] Stefanie Caccamo: So I hope that by now, if you're listening, you have seen it.

[2:42] Stefanie Caccamo: Um I'm going to see it tonight.

[2:44] Stefanie Caccamo: And I am like beyond excited to see it.

[2:48] Stefanie Caccamo: Like, I've been waiting a very long time for this.

[2:52] Eliza Gunther: How are you? How are you feeling? What's what's going on with you right now?

[2:56] Stefanie Caccamo: I'm feeling I'm feeling fine. I'm feeling good. It's a weird time, you know.

[3:00] Stefanie Caccamo: Um it's it's always a risk taking a job at the moment because of the nature of what we do with an audience.

[3:08] Stefanie Caccamo: It can be cancelled at any moment.

[3:10] Stefanie Caccamo: Um and then as well. If some because we work so closely together, if someone in the cast, you know, comes down with COVID, then we have to shut down for a week.

[3:18] Stefanie Caccamo: So it's a bit scary.

[3:20] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh but it's it's the risk that we take in order to do what we want to do.

[3:25] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, I mean, the opposite is not doing what you want to do, so it's kind of a catch 22.

[3:29] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, but yeah, so it's it's felt um really full on, but uh the company that I'm working with, like Hayes have been unbelievably supportive, and everyone in the cast, the crew, the creatives are exactly the same.

[3:44] Stefanie Caccamo: It's been a joy actually.

[3:46] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah, it was stressful in the beginning and then now I'm feeling pretty relaxed.

[3:50] Eliza Gunther: That's good. I feel I definitely uh understand from on a much smaller scale how uh stressful it is, you know, you have all this excitement behind doing a show and doing the rehearsals, but there is always that, you know, the chance that you'll get to the day before opening or midway through the season and have to shut down because of COVID.

[4:10] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah.

[4:11] Eliza Gunther: Um or the the you know, what you've just experienced, the possibility of having COVID or possibility of getting sick and trying to keep other people safe as well when you're working in a cast, and it's so uncertain and so unknown.

[4:23] Stefanie Caccamo: So we appreciate you moving forward and you know, doing what you're doing because it's so exciting.

[4:29] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah, I mean, well, the I that's it is it is really exciting, and I think what I've had to do mentally to get through it is not to think of uh the payoff being once we get an audience, it's every single day that we achieve a rehearsal or a show, then that's a feat in itself, and to be really happy with that, and then whatever happens tomorrow happens tomorrow.

[4:52] Stefanie Caccamo: And we've just done that the entire way, and I think we've been so lucky that we haven't had any bumps in the road yet.

[4:59] Stefanie Caccamo: Now we're at our last week. I think we're all like, well, whatever happens from here, we're grateful for the time that we got.

[5:05] Stefanie Caccamo: So yeah, it's it's kind of just the way that you've got to think at the moment.

[5:09] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, I think and I think that's exactly the right mindset to have taking each day as as a blessing and as what it is, because you just don't know what tomorrow is going to bring.

[5:18] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah.

[5:19] Eliza Gunther: But I guess jumping into it in a bit. How did you find the world of theatre? And what drew you to create a career out of it?

[5:28] Stefanie Caccamo: Well, I mean, I always loved singing. That was my number one. I was a part of the Australian Girls Choir and the school choirs.

[5:34] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, but I discovered theatre when I was 11. It was just by chance.

[5:38] Stefanie Caccamo: Um my sister was doing singing lessons at school, and this teacher that she had recommended that she audition for this opera.

[5:46] Stefanie Caccamo: It was Calm and the Opera.

[5:48] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, and so I just kind of went along with her. I auditioned, we both got it, and it was the most terrifying experience of my life.

[5:57] Stefanie Caccamo: I I think uh day one, I went to the wrong vocal call.

[6:00] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, I went to my sister's vocal call, I just hung around with my sister, and I couldn't read music at the time, and there were all these kind of professionals in the room, and it was the two-hour vocal call, and I felt so suffocated and terrified.

[6:12] Stefanie Caccamo: I thought there's no way that I'm coming back tomorrow.

[6:16] Stefanie Caccamo: But I did, I did. I realized I was in the wrong room.

[6:19] Stefanie Caccamo: Um and yeah, I just I uh once we got to the theater and we had costume fittings and we got on stage, I really fell in love with the magic of it, and being 11, it really felt magical.

[6:31] Stefanie Caccamo: Um I just I just remember thinking up until that point, I was like, yeah, I'm gonna be a teacher.

[6:39] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, but that was um I was eleven, but still I think back to that just knowing so fiercely in my heart that that's what I wanted to do.

[6:49] Stefanie Caccamo: Um I just didn't know how.

[6:52] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh but anyway, so I started doing this the school musicals, and um I actually met my singing teacher, uh, who's still my singing teacher to this day on that production when I was 11.

[7:01] Eliza Gunther: Oh, really?

[7:02] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, yes.

[7:03] Eliza Gunther: Wow.

[7:03] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah, she's she's incredible. She's really um she's really been uh the biggest influence on uh on me and the performer that I am, and so and so yeah, so she has been my singing teacher my mentor and um once I got to year 12 and we were doing HSC and I had to take that next step with where to go uh she she yeah I told her that I wanted to do musical theatre because uh she trained me in classical singing um up until I was about 18.

[7:30] Stefanie Caccamo: Oh wow and then yeah I told her that I loved musical theater and she was like okay well let's audition for WAPA then and I just I was like what the hell is WAPA?

[7:39] Stefanie Caccamo: Um I knew nothing I knew nothing about it.

[7:41] Stefanie Caccamo: I just I loved doing it at school um but I really didn't know anything about the industry or anyone in it to be honest.

[7:48] Stefanie Caccamo: I think I knew about Audra McDonald I think that was it.

[7:50] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah so that I kind of just um everything just lined up and and fell into place and that's that's how I kind of fell into theatre.

[7:58] Eliza Gunther: That's amazing I can't believe you've had the same singing teacher for that long.

[8:02] Stefanie Caccamo: It it it m's mind blowing but also incredible that you've had this connection with someone for such a long time and they've been able to guide you along your entire journey which is so fantastic.

[8:12] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah I'm really really lucky because you know your voice constantly changes and then sometimes the scene teacher you have might not serve you anymore and that's very normal.

[8:21] Stefanie Caccamo: Um but for her I just it's felt so safe and so comfortable and um you know I've gone through some vocal issues in the past and she has brought me back from the edge and yeah just everything I think I think the main thing with her what I love her name's Nicole Alexander she's phenomenal she's in America at the moment she's directing she's an insane person as well she's one of those insane people that does everything.

[8:46] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah but yeah she she um we were uh uh away uh from each other for a period of time and my voice went through some changes and I didn't know how to I didn't know how to fix it so I I went over to LA and I stayed with her for a bit and she got my voice back.

[9:02] Stefanie Caccamo: She's just the only person that has been able to uh maintain my voice um which has been yeah uh really really special um you know to have that connection and um I can't imagine not having her in my life.

[9:16] Eliza Gunther: Yeah and it it's crazy because if if my if my sister her singing teacher at high school hadn't recommended that she do this show uh something that we had never done before you know we could have easily gone oh I don't know about that but we just we took the leap and we did it and she was she she was the musical director um and she um she auditioned us and she said that she heard something in both of our voices right from the beginning so it was shortly after that production that she asked if she could teach us.

[9:45] Stefanie Caccamo: So that's incredible what a good story I love that.

[9:49] Eliza Gunther: And obviously right now you are playing Alice Russell in Lizzie at the Hayes.

[9:55] Stefanie Caccamo: Now it is a bit of a new show like we haven't really seen this show in Australia.

[9:59] Stefanie Caccamo: Can you tell us a little bit about what the show is and um just about the show itself?

[10:04] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah I mean it's complex.

[10:08] Stefanie Caccamo: So Lizzie Borden in 1892 she uh killed her father and her stepmother with an axe.

[10:18] Stefanie Caccamo: It was a big scandal uh but she was acquitted so she um she was uh set free and uh I don't think the case has really been solved since but the way that the book works for the musical is that Lizzie very much did um kill her parents and um it delves into some really really uh serious issues.

[10:38] Stefanie Caccamo: Um it's rumored that uh she was severely sexually abused by her father, and losing her mother at a really young young age is uh traumatic, and this stepmother figure kind of comes in and wants to change the father's will, and it's just an absolute mess.

[10:58] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh and her older sister has kind of been that mother figure for her, but even so, her going through the trauma of losing her mother, how how helpful was she? We don't know.

[11:07] Stefanie Caccamo: Um yeah, it kind of gets to a point where Emma leaves because she feels within herself that she's gonna do something bad and she's just got to get out of there, and she kind of leaves Lizzie to her own devices.

[11:21] Stefanie Caccamo: Um and then there's Alice, who is Lizzie's next door neighbor and um lover in the show.

[11:29] Stefanie Caccamo: And what was really interesting about uh what I previously thought about Alice, you know, I thought you know, she was this light in Alice's life.

[11:39] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, but as we discovered the show, we realized that she was another pressure in her life that led her to doing what she did because she loved her, Alice loved Lizzie so fiercely that it was toxic and that she forgot why she was in love with her.

[11:56] Stefanie Caccamo: She just so was in love with the idea of being in love, and she was you know, at the right at the beginning of the show, Lizzie says to her, I'm leaving, I've got to get out of here, I've gotta go.

[12:06] Stefanie Caccamo: And if she Alice had let her go, then maybe none of it would have happened.

[12:10] Stefanie Caccamo: But Alice convinced her, so no, no, no, stay, I will protect you, everything will be fine, you just have to stay with me.

[12:16] Stefanie Caccamo: We can save each other.

[12:17] Stefanie Caccamo: Because uh, you know, at the time, 1892, the queer um love story, it was very, you know, uh not allowed, and um yeah.

[12:28] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh so Alice is going through that kind of um struggle, mental struggle.

[12:33] Stefanie Caccamo: And so um yeah Alice is a little self-centered.

[12:36] Stefanie Caccamo: Which is kind of fun.

[12:37] Stefanie Caccamo: I feel like I've played um characters that um are kind of you know uh protagonists but um in this uh it's it's in it's it's fun to start the show with the audience thinking that she is a light in Lizzie's life and then realizing that she's um actually really bad for her um so all of these pressures all of these pressures in Lizzie's life ultimately lead her to killing her parents because it's the only way that she sees out of her circumstance um you know it's it's not that we're going yes murder is great it's just that we're saying that she was so stuck she had no other choice and mentally with everything she had gone through how could she have been in her right mind so yeah I think it's uh feminist hit my microphone um a bit of a feminist story um for reclaiming her life and setting herself free it's the show itself just sounds so amazing for an actor in terms of the complexity of what's going on it's like who is the villain who's not like who's in the right who's in the wrong it's it's very it plays on there's no straight and narrow with it it's it's in between and ambiguous which I think is so much fun when you get to play character like that.

[13:51] Eliza Gunther: Have you had like what has been your favorite part of working on Lizzie?

[13:55] Stefanie Caccamo: Oh god there's so many good things about it.

[13:57] Stefanie Caccamo: I will also say that that explanation was very um psychological.

[14:01] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh it it is, and this is gonna sound uh strange.

[14:06] Stefanie Caccamo: The show in the first half is kind of more set in reality, but you have some other characters like Sarah Ward's character, the maid, who's a little more heightened and drops in some camp stuff here and there, and then act two is very camp, it's very heightened and um uh uh almost like a cabaret style um in act two.

[14:28] Stefanie Caccamo: So it's yeah, it's really it's a really interesting mix.

[14:31] Stefanie Caccamo: Whenever I try to explain it to people, they're just so baffled by it.

[14:34] Stefanie Caccamo: But um, yeah, I I guess when you when you come and see Victoria, you'll see what I mean.

[14:37] Stefanie Caccamo: Oh, I'm very a show that I've followed for a very long time personally. Um so I know this show very well. When I saw I thought it was being put on, it's just not a show that I ever imagined seeing in Australia. And when I saw that the Hayes was doing it, I was like, you're kidding. Because it's I think also it's such a show, even that explanation prepares you, but also completely not like when I first heard about this show many years ago, um and then listened to it, I was like, oh, okay, this is not whatsoever what I expected. But that's I think what I love about it so much is it could be a very light, dark show if that makes sense. Like it could have very light music, and you know, but this gives it an entirely new meaning, and it is an entirely female cast, which is phenomenal, and it's obviously you know the cast here in Australia is for extremely phenomenally talented women, extremely strong women, and so it's just I'm I'm so excited tonight. I'm excited to have you in, it's gonna be fun.

[15:55] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, yeah, you're right. It's it's it's really different, and I think um Hayes Theatre Co. especially are kind of heading in that direction, you know, doing doing some different shows, um, which is good because we need it and we love it. And I think what's great about this story um is that you know it's it's an authentic, queer um story uh storytelling of of the book. Um I think other productions it's a little more heightened, it's a little more like a rock concert and they're holding microphones, but we've really brought it down to reality. Um for the first act at least. Um and yeah, it's it's I think it's really important to see um these stories on stage um and then attract you know different types of audiences. Um it's certainly gonna broaden, you know, the scope. It's it's it's not gonna limit. So um yeah, it's it's really exciting.

[16:44] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh your previous question, my favorite part of the show. Yes. Um sorry, we get very sidetracked here. Oh, but I'm I'm the queen of sidetracking. I have like when I'm telling a story, I have like five different stories that go along with it. Um I think ultimately um it's it's been the whole team working with so many brilliant minds, um with so many um inspiring ideas and thoughts, and uh I've I've felt very very lucky to be in the room with everyone. Yeah, I've just learnt so much about so many things, representation on stage and um how different you know the theater world, um musical theater world can be from the cabaret world and how merging those together would just be heaven and yeah, not not only diversity um on stage and access accessibility on stage, but um in in the stories that we tell and um anyway, so many things. I don't even know my brain's going like this.

[17:44] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[17:44] Stefanie Caccamo: It's such a phenomenal creative team as well. Like I'm not gonna say her name correctly, but Maeve is phenomenal and Victoria Falcona is and like look, I'm biased, but like the fact that you get to sing with Marissa every day just like oh device an amazing friend and we've again someone that we've had on the podcast before and I'm just obsessed with her. Like absolutely obsessed. Um so I think I think we're just obsessed with most of the cast. So gosh, you should get Sarah Ward and Ally on. You should get them on together. The two of them together are hilarious. They would be you would like to be able to do that.

[18:20] Eliza Gunther: Oh, I love it.

[18:21] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah, it's such a great team. Oofed. I felt very lucky. And so you actually spent a portion of time living in London. How did theatre differ there compared to Australia and just in general, what was your experience like?

[18:37] Stefanie Caccamo: It was very short, and I don't know that I can answer your question because I was only there for four weeks before uh the pandemic hit. So I moved there in February of 2020 and I spent most of the four weeks setting myself up and um going for agent meetings and I did find an agent. And they were amazing. I was so excited to work with them. Uh and I had one audition. I got one audition under my belt. So that's kind of the only um experience I had uh in the room. And it was it was different. Uh it was very fast and it what it kind of reminded me of was um the you know when you see people audition in film and it's really cutthroat. Um it was like that. It was actually like that. I in a in Australia I feel like we we have so much more space and um and and yeah we it's it's always very I always feel very usually uh very good in the room um very safe in the room and uh yeah uh but in in London um it's it's not that they uh were rude by any means it was just so quick so I was auditioning for the West End recast of Le Miz Um and I just had to go in there and sing on my own and the entire song they were talking amongst themselves looking at my C Vaving conversations this and that and I was so confused because no one was looking at me I was like oh I'll just keep singing I mean it it took the pressure off I didn't mind I was like I'll just you know keep singing doing whatever um and then at the very very end um when it gets to the pretty delicate part of the song um uh that's when they all looked up and they watched me and then suddenly they had all of these notes about my entire performance uh and they wanted me to do the song again and I was just like what you weren't watching me uh anyway so I did it again and they're like yeah that's great no I always uh see you later I was like cool um thinking you know it didn't go badly but I didn't know how it went usually I can gauge an audition uh anyway and I ended up um uh flying back to Australia because um uh COVID seeing well I didn't know what was happening and I just thought it would probably be best to be home with the family for a couple months I thought I'd just come back for a month or two.

[20:56] Stefanie Caccamo: Um no so I was in quarantine and and I I got a call back and I just did my um uh my tape in quarantine and then um the show ended up getting shut down as did everything. Uh yeah, so that was kind of my experience. I mean, I went to to see a few shows, like I watched Lay Miz before I auditioned, and I saw beautiful Josh Pitterman in Phantom, and um I saw Waitress. Uh the the the um watching theatre, the the level of oh my gosh, it was phenomenal. I think the production of Lame Is was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. I just I was in tears. Um so yeah, I just I that's the only experience I have being over there, and I just remember thinking I really want to be a part of this.

[21:43] Eliza Gunther: I mean, is it something that you think that you might end up going back to?

[21:49] Stefanie Caccamo: I mean, I'm not ruling it out at all. I just I think I don't know how much longer this COVID, this pandemic is going to um to last for, and it just seems it still seems a little bit scary at the moment. Um and I think it's a good time to just be at home with the fam. Um so uh maybe in the future if something brings me over. Um I also I also lost a lot of money. So I've got to as you would. But no, we hope we hope that um that like a lot of Aussies will get to go over to London soon and and pursue that because it's exciting and being around a lot of theatre, and it's just different, I think, being around a lot of theatre in a condensed space. Um but that being said, I feel like um at the moment there is a lot of shows going on, like Jagged, Frozen, Hamilton, we've got Lizzie, we've like there's a lot going on even within that, and we're trying to grow theatre more and more, which is very exciting. And um, you know, we can only hope that uh this year we won't be too interrupted by uh the Rona. Fingers crossed, fingers crossed, but we'll deal with it.

[23:02] Eliza Gunther: But yeah, you're so right. In London. That was the that was another thing I felt, and I forgot that I had felt that until you just said that. Um was that there's such an energy and a vibe there with theatre. And there are th the same way that there are, you know, here, um it's you know, the football is so advertised or um movies are really advertised. Theatre is everywhere. Like the underground uh posters everywhere about it. On every like second corner, there's a little like ticket store where you go buy tickets for musical theatre. It just blew my mind uh how embedded theatre is in the culture over there. So that that was really cool.

[23:43] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah.

[23:44] Eliza Gunther: That's exciting. I can only hope to go there one day.

[23:47] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah, it's special. And London's just gorgeous, it's beautiful.

[23:50] Eliza Gunther: It is.

[23:50] Stefanie Caccamo: So recently once came back for its second season and you had the chance to return to the role of girl. Why do you think this show resonates with so many people?

[24:01] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh I think there are so many reasons. There are probably a lot of reasons that I'm not even aware of because everyone's um human experience is so different. Um when you go and see once, I don't know, there's I mean it's a specific specific story, but there's also just so much space in that show as an audience member to have your own experience. Um so I mean the music is obviously just beautiful. Um and I think there's something really magical about uh watching the uh the artists on stage play the instruments um yeah I don't think that's very common in musical theatres. I think that in itself is really magical. And kind of jarring, I guess, um, when you first watch it um but I mean I'm a romantic so I love a love story but I love how this isn't your traditional love story I think it's really real in that people come into our lives only for a certain amount of time um and then they leave and that's very much what this story is about and sometimes when you develop really strong feelings when you develop when even if you love them sometimes it's not enough um and I think that's what Guy is going through.

I think it's what they're both going through. Uh he's got a love elsewhere and um she does as well and although they have developed this very special unique kind of love with each other in such a small amount of time they've still got unfinished business elsewhere.

[25:35] Stefanie Caccamo: Um she says this beautiful line in the show what does she say you cannot go through your life leaving unfinished love behind you. Um I just think that's so true and special and um even if it means that the love isn't there if if you haven't healed from the love um from the heartbreak then you've got to do that work before you can invite other love into your life. Just so many different things and you know like we're all of these themes they're all universal but everyone has their own unique experience even though they're all really similar and I think that's what's really beautiful about it. Um and it's really funny I speak to so many people after the show um and they think that girl and guy have kissed everyone that I've spoken to is like, oh, you had to kiss Toby Francis again.

I was like, no, we we don't kiss in the show. They don't kiss. And everyone's just like, wait, what? Like it's it's so because they're so you know immersed in this beautiful story, which is really about, you know, um, it's not about the like the love, really, it's just about one human being having love for someone else and and get um helping them get their life back um on track.

[26:41] Stefanie Caccamo: Um just the generosity uh there is unbelievable, the humanity and the selflessness. Oh it's amazing. Um but people are so you know enthralled by that. They're they're convinced that there's a kiss at some point, but there isn't. Um yeah, so I mean I've I've mainly focused on all the love aspects because I'm a romantic, but um, I'm sure there are there are so much. There's there's the there's the loss of um uh guy's father, Dar, his um his wife, there's that element. Um girl has a child and her husband's not around, so she's kind of a single mother and and dealing with that, and there's so many themes um that relate to so many different people. Um, and it's beautiful, it's beautiful performing um in uh the eternity, for example, because it's such an intimate space, and you can really see and hear the reactions um of people, and it's yeah, it's beautiful. Once it's stunning. It's a really beautiful show.

[27:36] Stefanie Caccamo: I've I've had the opportunity to see it actually a few times now. I've I saw it on Broadway in Melbourne the first time I came to Australia when um Oh my god, and I've just forgotten her name. Maddie Jones. Maddie Jones was in it, yes. And I got to see it at um the Darlo last year with yourself and Toby, and it's such a beautiful show. I think one of the things I I do love so much about it is like you said, it's the fact that all of the you know, all of the people that you would normally see in the pit playing are actually on stage, so it's such a different experience. Um I feel like there's so much more connection to it as well because it's it feels so much more real and part of the world that it doesn't necessarily feel any more like you're seeing a show. It just feels like you're sitting at a pub watching these people play and sing and have fun.

[27:55] Eliza Gunther: And it's such a I think special show as well because it it's not that it has a sad ending, it doesn't end how you would expect it to from watching Girl and Guy Me, which I think is so important because it's not every love also is meant to be, and you can still love someone and lose them, but continue on.

[28:55] Stefanie Caccamo: Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah, I completely agree with all of that. In our production, we really wanted to um hone in on that idea that he was really giving up on life, like he was ready to go and end his life. Um she absolutely was just compelled to save him, to help him as best as she could.

[29:16] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, in turn by her doing that, she kind of she didn't realise that he was also bringing her back to life. Um, yeah, finding purpose in her own life as well. Um, not just not just oh I have purpose in saving this man. Um, but just uh I feel like for her she was um just kind of going through the motions and her mother was helping a lot with her child, but she was yeah, a little vacant, just kind of going through life a bit empty and then having something to be inspired by music, you know, like he you know, she obviously wanted to help him, but it was his music that drew her to him. She just was like, there people have got to hear this. You can't give up. This is unbelievable. And that has inspired her to finally, you know, finish her song that she gets to play in Act Two.

And um, yeah, so many beautiful things. But yeah, it's it's love um there are so many different kinds of love and this is a different a different kind of love and it's a bittersweet ending and everyone's like, why aren't they together? And I was like, this is real life.

[30:17] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[30:17] Stefanie Caccamo: No, that's and that's what I love I think so much about it is it really does bring the reality of life to it as much as I know we would all love to see that they end up together in the end or that he spoiler, you know, jumps back off that plane and comes back. But just like it is it's a real life and that you help each other in such a phenomenal way and in such an impactful way but then it's then okay to then kind of let go of that connection and and aware of the impact that it will always have on you.

[30:50] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[30:50] Stefanie Caccamo: But also then having to let each other go because I feel like as well otherwise you would always be stuck with the fact that you saved him, he saved you, you know that then it kind of always relies on that foundation of saving each other, which is not healthy.

[31:07] Eliza Gunther: No.

[31:08] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah. And that and that's what that's what she she knows. She's she's aware of that. She's fully aware of that. I think it's because she has other priorities. She's got you know she's got unfinished business with her husband and she's got her child and she's got a family here. Um, but for him um other than his dad um she was kind of yeah he was absolutely clinging to her and she just says to him you can't, like, I can't be that for you. You have to be that for yourself. And then once you are, you'll realize that you have to go back and fix things with your ex or at least get some closure with it.

[31:40] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, gosh, she's so amazing. I've learnt so much from her. Um, you know, it it's really beautiful in any character that you explore and you portray, you take a little piece with them, and she's been the biggest influence on me. Um, there's this um, I mean, just a little tidbit. Um, there was this moment in rehearsals. I don't know if it was the second time around that we did it or or whether it was the first time round. But um, so in Act Two, she says, my husband called, he's coming back, and we're gonna work things out. Um, it's really, really intense scene. And Richard, Richard Carroll, our director, uh, while while we were kind of exploring the scene, he said, we don't know if her husband called. He may not have called, and she's just using this as a reason to get him to see that you know, he's gotta go after his own life.

[32:31] Stefanie Caccamo: Um and he can't he can't I can't be that rock for him. He's gotta he's gonna sort himself out. Um and it just ever it blew everyone's mind. And so every night, every night I just chose something different depending on the vibe of the the the audience and and what Toby and I were creating. He's he's wonderful to work with, it's different every night. I love it. Um and so yeah, every night it would change. I mean, I I don't think the audience would know, but in my own mind it was really fun to kind of choose whether um my husband had called or whether he didn't.

[33:02] Stefanie Caccamo: Um and that, yeah, maybe she yeah, she thinks of it at the very last minute to not only stop him but stop herself. Oh, look, there is there are endless possibilities. I love that show. It is beautiful. There's there's just so many themes that are explored, and it's really um fulfilling as as the audience member, and also like um, yeah, even with the this different ending, it is real life.

[33:26] Eliza Gunther: And that is real life.

[33:27] Stefanie Caccamo: And it's so refreshing to see that on stage because sometimes you get like the you know the big musicals, it's usually the fairy tale ending. This is slightly different, which is always a lot of fun.

[33:39] Eliza Gunther: Well, escapism, escapism is great, but sometimes it's nice to get a healthy dose of reality and to cry a bit.

[33:47] Stefanie Caccamo: I love that catharsis, yeah, that's what we need to go through. And I guess on that note, we're actually going to change things up a little bit and do a game.

[33:58] Eliza Gunther: Okay.

[34:00] Stefanie Caccamo: So uh the game I've actually chosen for today is a bit of trivia, a bit of musical theatre trivia.

[34:10] Eliza Gunther: Brown's gonna find out my secret.

[34:13] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah, she's got a hands over her face. They're gonna find out that I know nothing about musical theatre.

[34:18] Eliza Gunther: It's okay.

[34:20] Stefanie Caccamo: I've got multiple choice.

[34:22] Eliza Gunther: Oh god, that's even worse.

[34:24] Stefanie Caccamo: Is this is this an is this open book? Is this an open book exam? I'm just gonna get my guitar.

[34:30] Eliza Gunther: They're pretty easy, like they're not too hard, they're not too hard.

[34:33] Stefanie Caccamo: I feel like they're a bit I feel like that doesn't help. I feel like it's not gonna matter.

[34:39] Eliza Gunther: I love it.

[34:40] Stefanie Caccamo: So it's gonna be you and Tori against each other.

[34:43] Eliza Gunther: So I'll go, Tori, you're gonna go first, okay?

[34:46] Tori Bullard: Okay.

[34:47] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah. Okay. So I'm gonna say the question and then the answers, and then you'll give me the response on which one you think it is. So, which Broadway musical featured a helicopter on stage?

[35:01] Tori Bullard: Is it South Pacific, Evita, or Miss Saigon?

[35:07] Tori Bullard: I'm gonna say Miss Saigon.

[35:09] Stefanie Caccamo: Yes, you are correct.

[35:10] Tori Bullard: Okay, I was like, really, any of those could be a good thing. I was ready to answer that. And then I forgot it was your question. I was like, really any of those? Because they are all a bit extra in the sense that like Evita and um South Pacific could absolutely have a helicopter if they really wanted to.

[35:17] Stefanie Caccamo: Um but Miss Saigon is the only one that actually makes sense to have.

[35:31] Tori Bullard: Yes, it does.

[35:33] Stefanie Caccamo: It has a big helicopter scene.

[35:35] Tori Bullard: I started I started pretty chill. This is a bit of a fun one just for me because you know that was a guess.

[35:40] Stefanie Caccamo: I would also like it to be known that was a hardcore guess.

[35:45] Eliza Gunther: Sorry, these are all towards like what I love, so I've just like put them in.

[35:48] Stefanie Caccamo: Oh great, go for it.

[35:50] Eliza Gunther: Wonderful. Okay, so what is this is for you, Steph?

[35:54] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh what is the name of Annie's dog in the musical Annie?

[36:00] Eliza Gunther: Is it gypsy, buddy, Sandy?

[36:06] Stefanie Caccamo: It's not Toto. Uh it's yeah, it's Sandy.

[36:08] Eliza Gunther: Sandy, Santy.

[36:10] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah, Sandy!

[36:11] Eliza Gunther: See, she's got this.

[36:14] Stefanie Caccamo: She was literally about to say Toto, and then I stopped myself.

[36:18] Eliza Gunther: It's multiple choice, and Toto was not one of them.

[36:21] Tori Bullard: Okay.

[36:22] Stefanie Caccamo: Jesus.

[36:23] Eliza Gunther: Okay.

[36:25] Tori Bullard: Yes.

[36:26] Stefanie Caccamo: What kind of gambling operation does Nathan Detroit run in Guys and Dolls?

[36:32] Tori Bullard: This is a little harder. Is it poker, horse racing, or craps?

[36:38] Tori Bullard: Don't know what craps is.

[36:40] Stefanie Caccamo: It's a fabulous question considering I've never seen Guys and Dolls.

[36:45] Tori Bullard: Oh, really?

[36:46] Stefanie Caccamo: What that's fine.

[36:47] Tori Bullard: That's you're a fraud.

[36:52] Stefanie Caccamo: I've been exposed.

[36:54] Tori Bullard: I'm gonna say a horse racing.

[36:57] Stefanie Caccamo: No, it's craps.

[37:00] Tori Bullard: Okay.

[37:01] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah.

[37:01] Tori Bullard: I actually genuinely don't know what it craps is, so if anyone knows.

[37:06] Stefanie Caccamo: Let me enlighten you.

[37:08] Stefanie Caccamo: Craps is a dice game in which players bet on the outcomes of a pair of dice.

[37:13] Tori Bullard: Oh, is that that one where it like spins?

[37:16] Stefanie Caccamo: Yes, because they've got that song that's like, um, what's the matter? Roll their dice. They're like rolling the dice and uh, what's it called?

[37:24] Tori Bullard: Oh, I forgot what it's called.

[37:25] Stefanie Caccamo: But they're rolling all the dice, and that's what they do.

[37:28] Tori Bullard: Well, there you go. I learned something new today about theatre.

[37:32] Stefanie Caccamo: There you go. Look at us, a bunch of hardballers.

[37:35] Eliza Gunther: I know.

[37:40] Stefanie Caccamo: Okay. Um, this is one of my favorites.

[37:44] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, okay. What was Disney's first Broadway musical?

[37:49] Stefanie Caccamo: Was it Mary Poppins? This is you've got four. Lion King, Little Mermaid, or Beauty and the Beast.

[37:58] Eliza Gunther: You know, I remember this being in my exam.

[38:01] Stefanie Caccamo: No way.

[38:04] Eliza Gunther: It was an exam question.

[38:05] Stefanie Caccamo: I have a feeling, yeah.

[38:07] Eliza Gunther: History, it wouldn't be my history of musical theatre.

[38:10] Stefanie Caccamo: Oh yeah.

[38:10] Eliza Gunther: Um just teaching all the MT um students out there.

[38:16] Eliza Gunther: I feel like Mary Poppins is sticking out to me.

[38:19] Eliza Gunther: Um I feel like it was Mary Poppins.

[38:22] Stefanie Caccamo: You know what? I guess that the first time.

[38:24] Eliza Gunther: It's not.

[38:25] Stefanie Caccamo: It's Beauty and the Beast.

[38:27] Eliza Gunther: Yes, there you go.

[38:29] Stefanie Caccamo: Which I didn't figure that myself, but yeah, it's it's Beauty and the Beast.

[38:34] Eliza Gunther: There you go.

[38:34] Stefanie Caccamo: I would have thought Mary Poppins too.

[38:36] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[38:37] Stefanie Caccamo: But yeah, there you go. I guess it's because it's the stage musical as well.

[38:42] Eliza Gunther: Yes, yeah, I know that makes sense.

[38:44] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah.

[38:44] Eliza Gunther: Okay, well, actually, you guys are on a tie, which works out really well for me because I have a tiebreaker now.

[38:50] Stefanie Caccamo: Okay.

[38:51] Eliza Gunther: So what we're gonna do is I'm gonna say the questions and the options.

[38:56] Stefanie Caccamo: Okay, guys.

[38:57] Eliza Gunther: Alright. What is the longest running musical in Broadway history?

[39:02] Eliza Gunther: Is it Phantom of the Opera, Cats, Chicago, or The Lion King?

[39:08] Stefanie Caccamo: Death.

[39:09] Eliza Gunther: Um, I do know the answer to this, and I um I mean, I did know the answer to this.

[39:15] Eliza Gunther: I I feel like I once upon a time have known the answer, but I also feel like it's changed.

[39:18] Stefanie Caccamo: Exactly.

[39:19] Eliza Gunther: I feel like there have been several times I've known the answer, and it's just escaped me.

[39:23] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, not just.

[39:24] Eliza Gunther: This is the one I found on a trivia website, so probably should have like double checked.

[39:28] Stefanie Caccamo: It's either Phantom or Chicago.

[39:31] Eliza Gunther: Um, I believe.

[39:34] Stefanie Caccamo: I think is it Chicago?

[39:37] Eliza Gunther: Oh no.

[39:40] Stefanie Caccamo: It's not either of them.

[39:42] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, because I always thought it was Chicago as well.

[39:45] Stefanie Caccamo: But it's no, it's Phantom of the Opera.

[39:47] Eliza Gunther: Actually, that makes a lot of sense.

[39:49] Stefanie Caccamo: That makes way more sense, in fact.

[39:51] Eliza Gunther: Oh my god, all the music theater nerds are like, I'm turning this off.

[39:57] Stefanie Caccamo: This is abysmal.

[39:59] Eliza Gunther: It's fun.

[39:59] Stefanie Caccamo: We are both winners because we tried.

[40:03] Eliza Gunther: Exactly.

[40:04] Stefanie Caccamo: You have ended on a tie, so you're actually tied for winning, and I don't have another question.

[40:10] Eliza Gunther: So good.

[40:11] Stefanie Caccamo: Great.

[40:11] Eliza Gunther: There we go.

[40:12] Stefanie Caccamo: After that absolute disaster, because I'm um heavily ashamed of myself. It's something that I found super interesting and absolutely phenomenal on your resume. Um, is that so you performed last year, yeah, last year, in a completely fresh production of Oklahoma that gender bent characters, which completely pushes the narrative and changes the narrative in quite a few ways.

[40:38] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[40:38] Stefanie Caccamo: Did you find that there was more opportunity with your role as Lori to actually, you know, everyone when they take on a role wants to try and make it their own, but did you feel that there was a lot more opportunity to really make that character your own?

[40:50] Stefanie Caccamo: So we we gender bent Curly and Laurie um remain the same. Um it applies a different lens to the piece. A lot of a lot of the original story made more sense um with applying a queer lens to the piece.

[41:01] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[41:10] Stefanie Caccamo: Okay, so in the original production, you've got Laurie and Curly, and they just are fighting so hard uh against their feelings, their true feelings that they are in love with each other, and you're just like, why? Why? Like surely it's not I mean it could be pride, but it just feels like you want a better reason um for them to have this kind of you know struggle right from the beginning of the piece.

[41:32] Stefanie Caccamo: And so if you apply the queer lens, then it's it just makes a lot of sense. Like uh Lori is really struggling with um what she believes she has been taught that she should do from not from her family, but from so we we created this idea that Oklahoma was this safe space, um, accepting uh and diverse place, and then outside anywhere any other town outside of it was you know conformity and and and um the patriarchy and this and that, and so, you know, within Oklahoma, she felt um safe to kind of maybe explore her feelings and her emotions with Curly, but um, you know, she's dealing with this um this pressure from the outside world and and you know, just being afraid of afraid of that, and um, and then she's got Judd, who very much represents, you know, the um especially our version of Judd, uh the kind of the the toxic masculinity, the very straight um man type thing, and she's kind of going, and you know, uh uh despite the what the script says, you know, she's like, I'm afraid of afraid of Judd and this and that.

[42:35] Stefanie Caccamo: I think she's more afraid of her own um feelings and emotions, um, and in a way she was kind of in like in this production, it was kind of like there was kind of a choice like between whether I want to like be with Curly or whether Judd is an option.

[42:50] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[42:50] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, and that's kind of why she just kind of gives it a go and like agrees to go to, you know, the uh I forget what it's called, the party, the ball, or whatever it is.

[42:58] Eliza Gunther: Um the hoe down, yeah, totally in in act two.

[43:03] Stefanie Caccamo: Um yeah, so uh that there's that struggle, and it just it just made complete it's complete sense of the book. Um as to why they're both a bit, you know, like god, I wanna I want to, but I I don't know if I I can't I can. Um and then as well with the with Judd's character, why is he so tormented? Why what brings him to the point of wanting to kill someone, you know? Uh and Andy did so much uh just amazing background work. He was telling me one day of all this this background work that he'd done on Judd and was wild. Um, but ultimately we really played up this toxic masculinity um in in that character, and um we c we kind of had this idea that Judd in fact was struggling with his own sexuality and and he he was attracted to men, and he was in order to fight that so severely, he went so toxic in the other direction um yeah and because of this internal battle within himself that's ultimately what by the end of the piece drives him to want to kill Curly because he's in a way jealous of how uh brave um curly is you know Curly's pronouns remained he him and um just seeing how uh confident um Curly is in his own skin and and that I think Judd is so jealous of that and um, you know, by the end he's so humiliated and um and jealous of him and he just is compelled to you know um anyway so yeah that just uh so much of the story made sense that was a long story um and and as and as well like uh Vicky Victoria Falcon's um uh musical direction was phenomenal like we it was just a four four four or five piece band and um a lot of the songs were stripped back and we really really played with um some moments being so gorgeously real and um suddenly so camp and just this it was so broad and then and then the same way in terms of um the light and the shade in the show like some really beautiful light moments like a highlight of the show for me was Axel Duffy um performing Kansas City and I think before that scene it may have been more of like a naturalistic acty scene I can't quite remember but then you know he comes back from Kansas City and um uh what Vicky uh had created and her partner Jared as well Jared Payne um was this uh it was so many different styles of music and Axel just it was like a mashup of like popular songs and then like the jazzy stuff and then music theater stuff 80s stuff it was so so cool she like fully uh mixed up that um that song and it was so camp and Axel's doing like fuettes and I don't even know what they're called.

[45:54] Stefanie Caccamo: Um and just all that yeah it was just you know it can go so extreme and then just have really really beautiful intimate moments like um Emily and I in People Will Say We're in Love played our own instruments for the first half of the song and we just kind of sang to each other as if we were like preparing to perform later at the party and and stuff like that.

[46:12] Stefanie Caccamo: So it was just beautiful I loved I loved everything about it and everyone's ideas were incredible and felt like one of those really special moments in time that um you know we did it over in Perth and I really really hope that we um can bring it over East because I think people would just be obsessed with it.

[46:30] Eliza Gunther: Yeah Richard's pretty amazing.

[46:32] Eliza Gunther: Hearing you talk about it it makes me so excited to like see a production like that because it really gives the characters more motivation and also I feel like as a modern audience we actually would want to see something like that because it reflects yeah what our society is now.

[46:49] Stefanie Caccamo: Like we can relate a little bit more to the story and to the characters.

[46:54] Stefanie Caccamo: Hearing you talking about it makes so much more sense to me their connection and their relationship and as um a queer woman myself being able to see that as well and understanding that kind of you know that push and pull and the yearning to but then oh you know you can't you can't do that.

[47:12] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[47:13] Stefanie Caccamo: But yeah no I I could completely agree with everything you've said.

[47:16] Stefanie Caccamo: It's we asked ourselves um so much on the production why, why, why is this character like this? Why, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this now? Why is this important? Um, and there are just so many reasons.

[47:29] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, it's actually really we had a really really similar um we had really similar conversations on Lizzie as well. Um, Maeve, our director, was all about the why. Just like why are we doing this, why we're telling this story in Australia.

[47:43] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, and it's just so important to check in with that because I mean there are so many beautiful classics. This is you know, they are beautiful because they're classic, but um, some of them are so outdated that um there's just in my opinion, no real point in doing them.

[48:00] Stefanie Caccamo: Um and the world is changing. The world is changing and our industry needs to change with it. And um, you know, the audiences are no longer, you know, you don't have to cater for a specific type of there. Uh yeah, our audiences are now diverse. Trust that. Trust that people are gonna come see it.

[48:19] Eliza Gunther: I guess on that note of change, um, what are some things that you would like to see in the Australian arts industry moving forward and what changes do you want to see in what we put on and perform?

[48:31] Stefanie Caccamo: Yeah, we've been we've been talking about that. Um at the forefront of my mind right now with the conversations that we've been having on Lizzie, um, accessibility into theatre is incredibly important. Like at the Hayes, we um Hayes delivered their first ever caption show last week, which was really amazing.

[48:49] Stefanie Caccamo: So we set up some TVs at the front of the theater, and there was someone in their home getting a live feed of the show and cueing all of the lines and the dialogue onto the screen. Um so that was really, really cool.

[49:01] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh and then, I mean, that's just one example, but more accessible and diverse um stories as well being written and being told, because that'll just bring in a whole different audience that, like you said before, will be able to see themselves on stage and I think that's really, really important.

[49:18] Stefanie Caccamo: Um so and then of of course, um 2020, the good thing about it was that it provided us with space to have um conversations about um diversity on stage in in race and gender and sexuality and um it's it's it's happening slowly and um I think I think it'll pick up um speed in changing and I I think in a way the silver lining to the pandemic was that um finally people had a chance to sit down and they didn't have a choice. You don't have a choice but to listen.

[49:54] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, you know, so uh if it's not going to change from as they say, the top to the bottom, um, then it's gonna start changing here and then slowly make its way up and then hopefully filter um that way.

[50:07] Stefanie Caccamo: So yeah, look, there are there are as the world is changing, we need to constantly change with it. It's never when progress is never gonna stop. That's wishful.

[50:15] Eliza Gunther: That's virtual thinking.

[50:17] Stefanie Caccamo: I don't think it's wishful thinking, I think it's honest thinking 'cause I think I honestly feel like people have to at this point.

[50:22] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, I agree.

[50:23] Stefanie Caccamo: Even if you're not necessarily comfortable with it to begin with, because nobody's ever comfortable with change. But it's not about being comfortable, it's about being open to it and being aware that it needs to happen because it's only to our detriment if we don't.

[50:37] Stefanie Caccamo: Also learning through mistake. I feel like so many people are afraid that they're gonna do something that's not gonna be quite right and they're gonna make a mistake. And I'm like, well, sometimes excuse me, sometimes you have to make the mistake to make the change and to learn from it.

[50:50] Eliza Gunther: 100%.

[50:51] Stefanie Caccamo: My gosh. The biggest lessons I've learned is when I've made an absolute dick out of myself. That's because I remember. You know, I'll never I'll never forget it. Um which is yeah, kind of the best way to learn.

[51:02] Stefanie Caccamo: But um, yeah, I think it we just need to keep the conversations going and open and um patience and yeah, generosity, and I think I think we're heading in the right direction for sure.

[51:15] Eliza Gunther: 100%.

[51:17] Eliza Gunther: But before we go, um, we are going to do a little bit of a bedtime story.

[51:22] Eliza Gunther: So I'm not sure if you have like a stage mishap or something like kind of like an embarrassing moment, that kind of type type of thing that you can share with us today.

[51:31] Stefanie Caccamo: Let me pull out my long list of stage mishaps. Um look, stage mishaps are the best. I I mean they're terrifying, but it's kind of where the magic happens.

[51:42] Stefanie Caccamo: Um most of the time. Sometimes magic does not happen. Um, but a lot of the time um it's really fun, especially if you're doing a show eight times a week, uh, for something a bit different to to happen and for you to uh kind of be snapped back um to be really present.

[51:57] Stefanie Caccamo: Um so I I kind of love when that stuff happens. Uh I think by far my my favorite stage mishap, because it was terrifying, but it just ended so beautifully, was uh I think it was the first time around we were doing once.

[52:13] Stefanie Caccamo: Uh and Toby is meant to preset um sheet music, the falling slowly sheet music in his back pocket. Uh and there's a scene where he's going to leave and I grab the sheet music out of his pocket and I say, Ooh, what's this?

[52:29] Stefanie Caccamo: And we sit down and we sing this song together, and it's amazing. So the usual part where I go to run and grab the music, Toby's forgotten to preset the sheet music in his back pocket.

[52:40] Stefanie Caccamo: And so I run to I like sprint towards him, like to go to his back pocket and nothing's there, and I stop myself, and I he turns around like, What are you doing? Like you because I've stopped, and then this moment in his eyes where he realizes, oh no, oh no, oh god, oh god.

[52:59] Stefanie Caccamo: And so I just think, okay, what do I need to do to continue the story moving forward? So I just continue with some lines.

[53:06] Stefanie Caccamo: So instead of being, instead of pulling out the music and saying, Oh, you write music, I say something along the lines of I have a feeling you write music.

[53:16] Stefanie Caccamo: Um I sit down at the piano seat, and Toby uh kind of mumbles and does some improvisation and goes, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing this.

[53:29] Stefanie Caccamo: And I sit down firmly at the piano seat in front of the piano, and I wait. I was just thinking my mind, this is your fault, this is your mistake, you can fix it.

[53:40] Stefanie Caccamo: So I sit down at the piano, and Toby being the absolute genius that he is, comes over to me and uh tells me the first four chords of the song.

[53:50] Stefanie Caccamo: He goes, I can't remember what they are, but he'll say he says something like F C F G or whatever. And so I just play the chords to the song, and um we just worked our way the say the same way that you would sit down and jam with someone and you didn't have sheet music, and they've written a song and they really want you to play with you.

[54:08] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, you kind of just stop every time you get to a different section of the song, and he tells you the next part of the chord or the next chord that comes, and then slowly throughout the course, I had uh imagined that I was kind of you know, she's very, very talented penist in the show that she was creating her own kind of melody as she's going along.

[54:24] Stefanie Caccamo: So it was very much a jam session, and because I didn't know the words and I didn't um really know any harmonies and sort of stuff, he just c Toby just kind of sang the first half of the song by himself.

[54:35] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, and then I started humming some harmonies as I pretended that I was getting to know the song, and then by by the very end, by the very end chorus, I was finally singing the words with him because by the end I had learned the words and it was just the most magical organic stage moment that I have ever had, and I don't think we had gotten an applause from an audience like that in any any show.

[55:00] Stefanie Caccamo: It was so beautiful, and um Toby and I we walked off stage and we just thought, wow, like we're never going to be able to recreate that ever.

[55:11] Stefanie Caccamo: Um even if we planned, you know, for Toby to get the music and for us to do that, it was just never gonna be that special ever again.

[55:19] Stefanie Caccamo: Um I was in tears, I think it was just so beautiful.

[55:22] Stefanie Caccamo: Um I mean that wasn't Toby's first reaction. When we walked off stage, he was like, I am so sorry, I am so so so sorry.

[55:28] Stefanie Caccamo: I was like, don't be. That was the best thing we've ever done.

[55:32] Eliza Gunther: So um, yeah.

[55:33] Eliza Gunther: Wow, that's incredible.

[55:36] Eliza Gunther: It's fun to see it unravel when something goes wrong to see how actors deal with it and also deal with it so professionally.

[55:44] Stefanie Caccamo: Like it's amazing that you guys had enough brain power in that moment, just w pres present in the scene to allow for that to happen.

[55:53] Stefanie Caccamo: And because it's such a beautiful, real organic show, I didn't want it to be like, Oh, okay, you've sung two a verse of lyrics and now suddenly I know all the rest of the lyrics. It's like, no, that's not what this show is.

[56:02] Stefanie Caccamo: We really have to play this out as if it were happening.

[56:07] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, and I think the the amazing thing about like Toby and I, he's he's one of my best friends, and um, because we you know we're just so on the same wavelength.

[56:17] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, we were able to just kind of communicate in that way, and just you know, like did not stop looking at each other.

[56:23] Stefanie Caccamo: We're just I felt very, very safe with him and um yeah, grateful for the for the friendship that we have because I think ultimately that's what kind of got us through it that we were both thinking the same thing.

[56:32] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, and sometimes, you know, especially in a show like this that is so set in reality and the harshness of reality, it's so beautiful to be able to have that.

[56:43] Eliza Gunther: Thank you so much for sharing not only that with us, but just so much being so honest and candid with us today and taking the time to to chat with us amongst the absolute nuts that is your life.

[56:55] Stefanie Caccamo: I think, you know, rehearsing one show during the day and doing another show at night. I can only imagine that you're probably you know, you've had a couple of days off, but you're probably still your brain's probably still absolutely fried.

[57:06] Stefanie Caccamo: Oh yeah, it's it's it's really full on. But I think what's getting me through is that um I mean Lizzie is so comfortable now, like we've we've been doing it for such a long time.

[57:15] Stefanie Caccamo: That's kind of taking care of itself. I've just got to make sure that I'm as well rested and healthy as I can be for that.

[57:21] Stefanie Caccamo: Um, but with um with Clear Day, what it I'm just so passionate about it because everyone is, and I've wanted to work with Kelly for such a long time.

[57:30] Stefanie Caccamo: I worked with Jay when I was back at Whopper, and I really wanted to work with him again. And then there are a lot of the actors that I haven't worked with before at all that I admire their work so much uh that I was like, I just have to do this.

[57:41] Stefanie Caccamo: I can't say no. Uh so yeah, when when you've got that driving you, um, it's yeah. It's an exciting time for sure.

[57:50] Eliza Gunther: Yes.

[57:50] Eliza Gunther: Well, thank you both so much for having me. This has been so wonderful, such a pleasure.

[57:54] Stefanie Caccamo: Thank you so much for taking the time to come on and thank you, Marissa, if you're listening for helping me getting us connected. Legend.

[58:02] Eliza Gunther: Yes. You guys, you can obviously follow uh Stephanie on Instagram at Steph Kakmo, which we will leave below. Um, but that is it for today.

[58:10] Eliza Gunther: We will see you next time. Um, until then, stay happy, healthy, and safe, and we will see you then. Bye.