This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Tori Bullard: You're listening to Stage Door Podcast.

[0:04] Eliza Gunther: The podcast celebrating theatre and creativity from on stage mishaps to career defining moments, hosted by Thespians, myself, Tori, and co-host Eliza.

[0:14] Tori Bullard: Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives and more.

[0:19] Tori Bullard: Hello everyone. Happy New Year and welcome to the season four premiere of Stage Door Podcast.

[0:25] Tori Bullard: Today we are joined by musical theatre star, model and social media baddie Milo Hartill.

[0:31] Tori Bullard: But before we get started, we would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and the Tabal people of UGERA, the traditional custodians of this land on which we work, live and record, and recognise a continuing connection to land, water and community.

[0:47] Tori Bullard: Model, performer, BLM advocate and self-titled fat and queer content creator, Milo Hartill is the human embodiment of sunshine.

[0:56] Tori Bullard: Milo's profile is a space to represent for the people who have felt like they could never make it in Australian modelling, screen and stage industries, and to be a voice and face for fat black queer women.

[1:20] Tori Bullard: Whilst at BCA, she performed as Charity in the graduating production of Sweet Charity, Agnes in the Hello Girls and Self Devised Mungrel.

[1:30] Tori Bullard: Milo received the 2021 Lionel Gale Foundation Scholarship for Music Theatre at VCA and was a finalist for the inaugural AOC initiative organized by Tarek Frimpong.

[1:41] Tori Bullard: Milo was most recently seen as Jules in the 2022 run of Fangirls at the Sydney Opera House, as one in Cyrano with Melbourne Theatre Company, Blanche Barrows in Bonnie and Clyde with Joshua Robson Productions, and slaying the stage at every hotspot in NAM.

[1:57] Tori Bullard: Please welcome to the mic, Milo.

[2:00] Milo Hartill: Woo!

[2:01] Milo Hartill: Hi y'all!

[2:03] Eliza Gunther: Hello!

[2:05] Tori Bullard: Welcome.

[2:06] Milo Hartill: Thanks for having me.

[2:07] Milo Hartill: I would also love to acknowledge that I am on Wurundjeri country right now. And acknowledge that sovereignty was never seated, and I'm very privileged to be here on these lands, getting to record a little podcast for y'all.

[2:23] Eliza Gunther: We are feeling the same.

[2:24] Eliza Gunther: We are so excited to have you on today. And obviously, you've been at rehearsals all day today.

[2:27] Eliza Gunther: I don't know if you're allowed to say what you're in, because I remember seeing something, but I also don't remember seeing something.

[2:35] Milo Hartill: I'm in a show at Theatre Works in St Kilda here.

[2:39] Eliza Gunther: Oh amazing.

[2:41] Eliza Gunther: So excited.

[2:42] Milo Hartill: Called Lemon Tree on Dreg Street. Come if you free.

[2:45] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely. How's the rehearsals been going?

[2:48] Milo Hartill: Good actually. We only started a week ago and we did our first run today.

[2:53] Milo Hartill: So a bit of a slay slam. I was pretty happy with it.

[2:56] Eliza Gunther: Come on, learn it all in a week. Let's go.

[3:00] Milo Hartill: Rock on.

[3:01] Milo Hartill: Right before midsummer.

[3:03] Eliza Gunther: Oh, so exciting. I'm so jealous of everyone in NAM because I cannot be there for any of the midsummer shows, which breaks my heart.

[3:12] Milo Hartill: As it should.

[3:13] Milo Hartill: But they all look amazing.

[3:15] Eliza Gunther: We need to. We both live in the wrong state, clearly.

[3:18] Milo Hartill: Absolutely wrong state.

[3:20] Milo Hartill: Hopping around, you know. I'm always nobody knows where I live.

[3:24] Milo Hartill: I find that really fun. Every time someone like is like, oh, we'd love to have you at this event, but you live in Sydney, and I'm like, no, I'm in Melbourne.

[3:30] Milo Hartill: And then vice versa. In Sydney, they're like, if only you weren't in Melbourne, and I'm like, oh no, I'm here. I'm everywhere and nowhere all at once.

[3:35] Eliza Gunther: Exactly. Love that movie.

[3:42] Eliza Gunther: And so obviously, you do a lot. You are not just a performer on stage, you are a model. You are, I mean, a social media influencer. But how did you find your way into the world of theatre and performing?

[3:57] Milo Hartill: Um, well, I my year five talent show. Our music teacher was like, We need somebody to sing "Car Wash" and do an impression of Austin Powers for the talent show.

[4:12] Milo Hartill: And I had like I'd done dance classes as a kid, but I didn't like it because you know, fat phobia unfortunately seeps into even the minds of six-year-olds, and I was like, Well, I'm bigger than all the other girls, so I don't want to do this.

[4:28] Milo Hartill: And then I had like I've always been a bit of a dickhead who likes to make people laugh. But only like only like adults until I was about in year five. Like I would never tell jokes at school because I got bullied, so I was just very quiet.

[4:45] Milo Hartill: And then this teacher was like, Who can do an impression of Austin Powers? And I ten-year-old me stood up, and my mum would probably be mortified to hear that I did this, but I stood up and I just went, You make me horny, baby.

[4:58] Milo Hartill: And our teacher was like, Um, well, that was a great impression, but probably don't say that at the talent show, but you've got the role.

[5:06] Milo Hartill: Um, why not? That's like a key line. Everyone wants to hear a 10-year-old black girl dressed as Austin Powers scream the words, you make me horny, baby, in a British accent at the year five talent show.

[5:18] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely. I would pay to see that.

[5:20] Milo Hartill: I literally wish that there was videos or photos. Uh literally, I'm gonna message everyone I know because I need a picture of little tiny chubby me dressed as Austin Powers.

[5:31] Milo Hartill: Make it happen, make it happen.

[5:33] Milo Hartill: But then at the end of that year, that teacher was like, Oh, what do you think you're doing for high school? And my local high school was so dodgy, and I was like, I don't know, I guess I'll just go to that school.

[5:45] Milo Hartill: And she was like, Do you want to audition for there's this art school in Fremantle, which is a suburb in WA, and she was like, It's you know they've got a musical theatre programme, and I was like, What's musical theatre? She was like, Oh, basically this, but there's like a plot basically Austin Powers plot driven and their songs, and I was like, Well, that sounds like a dream, and then I started doing that.

[6:08] Eliza Gunther: You have been absolutely killing it this past year. Well, the past year, and your first year out of uni as well, you most recently finished your run of Fangirls at the Sydney Opera House.

[6:20] Milo Hartill: And after that was MTC, Cyrano.

[6:23] Eliza Gunther: Yes, you know at MTC. And what do you feel like, I mean, that show itself was just so big and the audience is electric for a show like that. What was the most surprising thing you learnt about yourself from doing that whole process?

[6:41] Milo Hartill: To be a hundred percent honest, I learned a lot about the way I really honour the threshold of the stage, and like once I've entered that space, really being in the story and being the character. I at the end of Fangirls was having a pretty rough time with my mental health, and there was this one day where I just like rocked up to the theatre and I was sobbing like not good, and then we were all backstage, and so I think like the funny thing about me like having a weird mental health time is like that show is just wild.

[7:20] Milo Hartill: Like we're getting on stage and we're acting like hungry 13-year-old girls who love true connection, and I like there's just this one day I'm in the bloody, I wear this like piggy tail ratty wig in one of my opening scenes, and I was like in this full like matching track suit, glasses like that, like this huge wig, and I'm sobbing, and it was like the line before my line. I just went and we went straight on.

[7:52] Milo Hartill: We came out, and like you know, that was me the whole show. Like every time I was off stage crying. Then we got out, and a bunch of my friends had come from Perth, and they were all like, Oh my god, you must be having the best time. Look, we'll see you outside. And I came out like I'm so glad you guys came, like I miss you so much. And they were all like, Oh girl, what that's what I learned about myself is that I am good at switching a character on when I go on stage, but also a lot about managing mental health while being in the arts, which is a whole thing.

[8:23] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, people just assume that because we perform or work in the arts, that we most surely just have the best time every single day, and we are never ever sad, or and when we never have bum days, and I'm like that's majority of what we do because our literal entire industry is like pretty much overthinking.

[8:46] Milo Hartill: Emotional labour.

[8:48] Milo Hartill: Yeah, we like force ourselves to cry or force ourselves to feel certain ways, or bring up past trauma in order to enact roles. I'm like, we are not emotionally stable in the slightest, however, we can act like we are.

[9:02] Eliza Gunther: Woo!

[9:03] Milo Hartill: But I it's actually such a good skill to learn because I think you're not always gonna have a perfect day. And some days you're gonna come and feel like absolute shit.

[9:13] Eliza Gunther: I mean I guess a lot of people forget that it like it's a job. Like it is a job and like anyone rocks up to any job and sometimes you just have bad days like people like it's performing you must have so much fun all the time.

[9:26] Milo Hartill: It's like yeah I mean obviously you have fun and it's a great you know try to pick a job that you like so you don't have to work a day in your life but still it is work.

[9:36] Eliza Gunther: It's another thing that like I was having a laugh talk I was talking with a friend who like we both went home for Christmas and we were talking about you know going to home to your family and like you know your family who are accountants and teachers and doctors or just to like so you know I think you could be doing much better in the career if you just like really committed to it or or vice versa and it's like so when are you gonna get a real job and you're just like alright Uncle Steve like let's just get back to you doing your accounting me doing my performing and move on.

[10:07] Milo Hartill: Yes.

[10:09] Eliza Gunther: Or when when you say you have like because I work at a bookshop and they're like oh so things like haven't been going well and I'm like no but I'm allowed to also have a job that makes sure that I can survive and pay rent while still doing the thing that I love most.

[10:25] Milo Hartill: Like that's okay that doesn't mean that I'm failing just because you work nine to five every day in a cubicle doesn't mean you're doing better than I am.

[10:32] Eliza Gunther: Boom! Mic drop.

[10:35] Milo Hartill: I mean, look, people don't get the arts, do they? That's just like that's just like the thing. And like the difference between when you're doing an indie theatre show and you want to write your own show and like a big show or a musical and a play, or like when people I I love when I'm like, oh yeah, I'm a performer, and they're like, So what movies have I seen you in? I'm like, okay, we're cracking into screen right now, but you can see me at the opera house if you want.

[10:58] Eliza Gunther: Just casually, just at the opera house.

[10:58] Milo Hartill: You can see me there. Alongside Fangirls, you were also in at JRP's production of Bonnie and Clyde last year, which was absolutely phenomenal. How did you find the casting process for this show?

[11:14] Milo Hartill: Oh my god, magic, magic. Reese Velasquez at Evolution Casting is the one.

[11:21] Milo Hartill: They just they really know how to do their job. Um I think as well, like it was cool being in a cast where I wasn't the only bigger bodied person, I wasn't the only person of colour, I wasn't the only queer person, like, and lots of conversation.

[11:38] Milo Hartill: Like there were so many conversations that just didn't even have to happen in that room because you were just like, Yep, they're on it.

[11:45] Milo Hartill: And as well, like Sam Hooper, who was the director, and um, you know, ev like every I mean ev the whole creative team were just amazing.

[11:56] Milo Hartill: Um, it was truly an honor to be in that room, and like I don't know, I think Reese just like I mean, they are a non-binary, queer person of colour. Like they just like get it. They just get it.

[12:12] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[12:14] Milo Hartill: They are really killing the game. I mean, you look at the briefs, even and you just go, Oh, I feel seen, and I'm just reading the brief. And then the way that they interact with you, just on letting you know, hey, I've got your submission, just letting you know, or like there's just some things that um JRP are just doing so right, and and evolution casting are doing so right that respect the time of the performers, respect the performers, and respect um, you know, where they come from or or their position in life and and celebrate everything, and it's not from like a tokenistic point of view, like it's actually more hey, we want to create more inclusive environment for everyone that's not yeah, that that creates better theatre.

[12:58] Milo Hartill: Like the proof was in the pudding with it, really. Like the show was so good and the room was so safe, and you know, we were all like I was so happy to be there every day.

[13:10] Milo Hartill: Like I really enjoyed like just the process of being in that cast and being with those people. I just yeah, magic.

[13:21] Milo Hartill: It's one of those very few cast announcements that came out last year that actually made me excited to see the show because I was like, oh my god, there are body types like me that are playing the ingenue, which I never thought I could do, and there are non-binary actors playing a vast range of roles, and this is like Reese is creating the foundational work and really pushing the future of what casting should be.

[13:52] Milo Hartill: I just can't wait. I can't wait to see everything that Reese does. I just think they truly deserve the world. Every time they have a success, I feel like I'm having a success. And they're working at MTC now as a casting assistant. I don't know if that's the official title. So exciting.

[14:12] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[14:12] Milo Hartill: They are popping off. So you guys also had like so many, like dur it seemed like during the show, you had COVID rampant also come through the cast, and you had so many swings on understudies. Like, what was that like? Because that was hair. That was stressful as hell.

[14:31] Milo Hartill: It was like one of us went down and then another one doesn't. I was one of the people with COVID. It was so boo. And it was also one of our last weeks of Bonnie and Clyde, but also the first week of rehearsals of Fangirls. It was a nightmare. And so much crossover as well with the casts for both shows.

[14:55] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, literally.

[14:57] Milo Hartill: Literally. Blake and I both were like, ah. But you know, sometimes you have to, okay.

[15:07] Eliza Gunther: Were you just then off?

[15:08] Milo Hartill: Like, no, like you just didn't do anything, and then you have to like come back and be like, okay, stress. I was struggling. I was struggling. We got to one of the shows and Kieran, who played my husband in Bonnie and Clyde, like, I got there and he was like, How you going, girl? And I was like, Good. Good. It was like, oh, oh, it's okay. We got you, we'll support you. It's like I just it's because it's so hard as well to COVID just absolutely like destroys everything in your body and like breathing and to be able to like just bounce straight back is just like walking after COVID is hard.

[15:54] Milo Hartill: The haze has so many stairs. So many stairs. So many hate stairs and we've been running up and down to get to the dressing room and I'm going, no, I'm too fat and asthmatic for this.

[16:06] Eliza Gunther: I feel that in my soul oh my god whenever I see stairs I'm like uh no can we pass what if all the dressing mirrors were just on the base floor and we didn't have to like run up and down the stairs frantic it's very I'm going Fitzboy I didn't ask for.

[16:06] Milo Hartill: Yeah now talking about fabulous shows and all the awesome shows that you did last year do you have a dream show you would like to see brought to Australia? I desperately want to be Dolores Van Cartier in Sister Act. I just think it has to happen. I think that whoever is withholding the rights for it in Australia they just need to put out the audition brief I just need to audition for it. I also would love to see Sweeney Todd IRL I just think just slay boots.

[17:07] Eliza Gunther: Yes.

[17:07] Milo Hartill: You know we just slay boots. Yeah I didn't see it the last time it was here and regrets because I was too poor I wanted to see it so bad and I am from Perth and live in Melbourne and I was 18. So I had no money so relatable.

[17:26] Eliza Gunther: Even as it stands theatre at the moment thanks to COVID is like so much more expensive.

[17:33] Milo Hartill: It's so hard. It's very double-edged. I feel like I've been happy to see a lot of the initiatives the different theatre companies are putting out there so that like MTC's choose cheaper Tuesday tickets, and they've got like $25 tickets for every show, which is sick. And I don't know, but there were some initiatives that were happening when we were at the opera house as well. But I don't know how people do it.

[18:00] Milo Hartill: There was I saw a TikTok from a girl who she had been to see 11 shows of Bonnie and Clyde and 11 shows of and I was like I saw the same one and I was like, what she saw 80 or like 180 shows in a year. And I was like, what? She like flew to Sydney to see Bonnie and Clyde 11 times. Like that is I saw like five, and I'm was like, I um we'll be taking out a loan in order to see theatre in 2023. I saw a lot of shows, but it was just like work, which I was very lucky that it was just like come and influence this show. And I was like, oh my god, please, I wanted to come see it.

[18:42] Milo Hartill: You're like, oh yeah, I was gonna come anyway, but totally if you're offering me a free ticket, I would love it. Of course, I'll make that TikTok. I'm like, I'll put I'll post I'll post the media wall. What do you want me to do? I'll do it.

[18:57] Eliza Gunther: Well, we are gonna do a little bit of a game now just to bring things up before we jump into the second portion of our interview. Um, and this is a new game for a new season on theatre trends for 2023. Swipe left or right.

[19:16] Milo Hartill: To explain a little bit, we're gonna say a couple of trends or things, and you get to decide whether you are like yes or no. Swipe left or swipe right. And I realize I said theatre trends, but it is just trends in general as well.

[19:31] Eliza Gunther: Okay, great.

[19:31] Milo Hartill: Hey, I'm having a sip of water, I'm nervous. What if I'm bad at the game?

[19:35] Eliza Gunther: Okay.

[19:35] Milo Hartill: You're gonna slay. Look, you can't be. There's only two answers, so it's good. Swipe swipe left is bad. Swipe right, I like it.

[19:42] Eliza Gunther: Yes. The first one. Swipe left or swipe right on self-tapes.

[19:47] Milo Hartill: Swipe right. I love a self-tape.

[19:49] Eliza Gunther: Interesting.

[19:52] Milo Hartill: I despise self-tapes. I'll do that. I booked Fangirls without meeting anybody. I did all self-tapes. That's ideal. I loved it. Personally, I loved it. I do love it when you don't have to do a dance audition. Like I kind of do love that. Like where it's like all acting and singing, and they're like, oh, you know, or they just say, Oh, just film yourself in your living room about it. I was I went on to one of the girls from Six, they did a live, and like some of the Six mega fans are like, oh my god, Milo Hartill for Six, and I was like, sorry, babies, it's a dance round first, and then I would absolutely not make it through.

[20:31] Eliza Gunther: It's okay, just get famous enough where they're like, um, we need you.

[20:36] Milo Hartill: I'm banking on it, girl. I'm banking on it.

[20:39] Eliza Gunther: Alright. It's happening.

[20:41] Milo Hartill: I'm going, I need to do the reality TV back into theatre, maybe. I don't know. Work it out.

[20:48] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, you gotta find your roads.

[20:51] Milo Hartill: Okay, well, this one probably is not gonna be. I mean, you might have answered it. In person auditions.

[20:58] Milo Hartill: Swipe right depending on the team.

[21:00] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, do agree with that.

[21:02] Milo Hartill: If they're if it's a team that are in the know about diversity and inclusion, and ideally there's a person of colour involved on who gets to make decisions, not just a reader or a runner. Then I would love to be in person. You want to be represented on the deciding team, not just in the premise.

[21:30] Eliza Gunther: Not one-sided, thank you.

[21:32] Milo Hartill: Alright, the next one. Swipe left or swipe right on oat milk.

[21:36] Milo Hartill: Oh, swipe the hell right. I recently started drinking oat milk and it's changed my life.

[21:43] Eliza Gunther: In what way?

[21:44] Milo Hartill: Because I mean, both of you, like Tori was just telling me before, and I'm like, oat milk. Who does oat milk? Well, I realize, so we're both gluten. Eliza and I are both gluten intolerant. I've only just had the realization that oat milk is just gluten liquefied. But I think it's a sacrifice that I'm willing to make. Like it is, it's just good. I had an oat latte. My friend of mine, I stayed the night at theirs, and then the next morning they were like, Do you want a coffee? And I was like, Yeah. And then they were like, I've only got oat milk, and I was like, and then they made it and it's I've never gone back.

[22:20] Eliza Gunther: There you go. Guys, get on that oatmeal. Oat latte with a sugar. Love it. Amazing.

[22:29] Milo Hartill: Uh golden age musicals.

[22:33] Milo Hartill: A really tentative swipe right. It's a swipe right, but I've like looked at you know, I've looked, I've seen it come up on the profile. I've gone, oh I don't know, I've like gone out of the app, but not swiped either way. I've gone to my other apps, I've had a look, I've come back and I've gone, no, no, I'll swipe right. No, I'll swipe right. Yeah, I'll take a risk. It's like a tentative, like fit. Almost not quite. We'll have to see how it goes on the day list.

[22:58] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, I like them, but I don't love the gatekeepy old guard of musical theatre people who don't think that a s like uh outside of a certain demographic should feature in them.

[23:16] Milo Hartill: Mm-hmm.

[23:16] Eliza Gunther: But they're like, it should be done exactly how it was done for the first time in 1979. I've actually heard that black people didn't exist before 2000.

[23:27] Milo Hartill: So yeah, yeah, they didn't. It's like because possibly be in a Rudges and Hammerstein. They didn't have black people when they wrote that. God it's not as if they had massive impact on music how it is today. You wouldn't know, never.

[23:43] Eliza Gunther: I didn't think so.

[23:44] Milo Hartill: Absolutely. I jest, I jest okay, next one is low rise jeans.

[23:54] Milo Hartill: Uh swipe left for me, but I know that for some it's a sleigh. You know, I think with the low rise jeans, I'm going. I like it when my pants cover my lady areas. Um and my butt crack. Yeah, yeah, I like it when they cover my person. You know, there are some things that I'm not willing to show the public for free. And I won't be. And a low rise jean would mean that that would happen.

[24:27] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely.

[24:28] Milo Hartill: Someone said to me recently that they were coming back in style, and I was like, I saw a picture of someone, I was like, oh my god, they look amazing. I'll leave it to them. My thing is I don't know if anywhere sells low rise jeans that would like fit in a size 18, but if they did, I'd give it a go, see what it looks like. Yeah. I'm like, I struggled to find clothing as it is. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna try it. I will leave it to the people that absolutely slay every day. And I will continue to wear my regular to high waisted jeans.

[24:59] Eliza Gunther: Alright, so we've got Cats and Musical. Not the movie, the musical.

[25:06] Milo Hartill: I know, this is a it's divisive, that's why print it. Okay, I'm deleting the app. I'm deleting it. Um I think that's a that's a bad answer. It's because I don't want to be you know what? I was talking about it with a friend, and I was like, I don't I don't love the music of Cats. I don't think that there's a plot. But when I I've seen I've seen Cats twice, and both times I've seen it, I've been thoroughly entertained from start to finish, and I've gone, wow, these people have convincingly been cats for two hours. You know, that's something I don't know if I've got the chops for.

[25:52] Milo Hartill: Um, yeah, I've gonna I'm deleting the app because I'm I don't want to be I don't what have you mean? We'll accept that. We'll accept that answer.

[26:02] Eliza Gunther: Thank you. What about Laducas?

[26:06] Milo Hartill: Oh, swipe right, they're so gay, right? I don't have any, but if I did, uh you'd see them on my gram. I'd always be wearing them all the time. I to this day have the same pair of block heelers that I got on my first day of uni when I moved to Melbourne, which have been spray painted every colour under the sun, because I always like to spray them to match the show I'm doing and I feel like soon I should move to a Leduc but have no need for them at the moment. As someone who has them and just absolutely does not need them there is this constant fear of like I should wear them all the time but also I should not wear them because these were like $500 shoes.

[26:49] Milo Hartill: That's my thing is if I wear a Laduca to an audition right they're gonna go oh what dancer and then I'm gonna walk in and then they're gonna see me and they're gonna go that was a waste of money wasn't it and I'm gonna go yeah yeah no it was yeah yeah I mean to be fair when I went and got my Laducas and I was trying them on at the store in New York because it felt like a moment it felt like something that needed to happen and she was like oh my god what kind of like dance do you do and I was like none nothing and everything but they're pretty she was like okay go on relevant can you do a pirouette and I was like no I was like I can do a very spicy box step would you like to see that I'm gonna give you the cleanest single you've ever seen in your life.

[27:38] Milo Hartill: Exactly that's my life motto um all right I think this is gonna be the last one and it feels right are we swiping left or right on online dating ah swipe right slay yeah I agree.

[27:55] Milo Hartill: I mean I last year I was an ambassador for Bumble for quite a few months, and I loved firstly loved working with them, but also like had some great chats and met some wonderful people so far.

[28:11] Milo Hartill: Did a did an episode of Abby's podcast and went on a very sweet date after that. Was great.

[28:19] Milo Hartill: Not with Abby. I don't want the tabloids getting a hold of that.

[28:21] Milo Hartill: Not with Abby. She wishes.

[28:25] Eliza Gunther: What an absolute cat.

[28:27] Milo Hartill: Thank you.

[28:30] Milo Hartill: What a good couple. It would be an ADHD nightmare.

[28:36] Milo Hartill: I don't know if y'all heard that podcast episode, but we were like tangents left, right, and center.

[28:43] Milo Hartill: I was gonna say, it's like, have you seen the wild thorn breeze when Johnny's like I mean, look, my partner and I um she and I both have ADHD and are severely neurodivergent, and we'll be talking about one thing, and I'll be like, actually, no, sorry, we're now talking about this thing, and like two hours are past, and we're like, how did we get here? Let's go back to that original conversation.

[29:06] Milo Hartill: I don't have ADHD, but everybody in my immediate family does, like my sister, my mum, and my grandmother. So it's just like I feel like I've adopted that the brain of it just because we lived, I've lived with it my whole life.

[29:22] Milo Hartill: Yeah, it's just the normal way. That's like that's exactly how conversations go. That's just normal.

[29:27] Milo Hartill: Exactly. Getting back into the interview and some more questions. Now, there might not be a difference between these two things. Um, in my mind there is, but there might not be. But for our listeners, can you tell us um if and what the difference is between body positivity and body acceptance?

[29:46] Milo Hartill: I think that there's a difference. So body ex body positivity is like I love my body, love what my body does for me, I'm beautiful no matter what, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. That rhetoric of like loving your body and being positive about and to your body. Whereas body acceptance is like the belief that everybody deserves respect for their body, whether you or they believe that they are beautiful, hot, skinny, fat, able-bodied, not able bodied. Like body acceptance is very like which is I used to be a body positive person, and I mean I think on the whole I mostly still am, but for me, I only got to a place of body acceptance through like had to kind of reverse psychology myself, being like, I love my body, I love my body, I love my body, I love my body to get to a place where I believed it, and then could have body acceptance where on the days where I was like, Hey, maybe I don't feel a hundred percent today, but my body is still doing what I need it to do right now, and I'm grateful for that, and regardless of how I look, I deserve respect.

[31:01] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely. That is really I was gonna say in my mind, I was like, maybe body acceptance is similar to body neutrality, um, which is something that I try and kind of practice for myself. Is that some days I will be like, you are so sexy, and other days I'm like, wow, I'm going outside today in this body. Interesting choice. But body acceptance is so important, and it being so much faced about accepting others and sh being respectful and giving people respect for who they are.

[31:36] Milo Hartill: I mean, I think both are so important, hey.

[31:39] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[31:39] Milo Hartill: I feel like you can't have one without the other. And I think that there's like places for for both and like people who need both.

[31:49] Eliza Gunther: I agree. I feel like it's like even though you might be a body someone who is like accepting of all bodies and that's how like your mentality is it's not necessarily that you're gonna then have a positive view about your own and that's a journey for each and every individual which um I think it can be really tricky in this industry as well like to navigate.

[32:11] Milo Hartill: I understand and also an industry that up until a few years ago very openly encouraged eating disorders and eating disorders and fitness disorders and very negative relationships with body and you know nothing tastes as good as skinny feels rhetoric like and as much as I mean in all of the industries I work in I think that that is very closely tied in. But also like you know fat phobia is so rampant in all of the entertainment industry really and as well people just don't I mean the same with racism is rampant and ableism is rampant and homophobia is rampant and like there's just and so many people just don't even realize that they are perpetrating it.

[33:08] Milo Hartill: I was having a conversation a few weeks ago with someone that I went to school with and they were trying so hard to say the right thing and I it was me, this person, and then a good friend of mine. And we I was talking about, you know, feeling beautiful in my body despite the industry not agreeing with that. And this person that we were talking to just was it was very funny. Me and my friend like kept, you know, when you're giving your friend the eye of like we're talking about this at home. And it was like, it was like this person was just like couldn't understand how I could view myself as beautiful. Like they just were like grappling with like they were just like, oh yeah, well it doesn't really matter with with you as a performer anyway, because it doesn't matter whether you're pretty or or if you're not pretty, um, you know, it it's about the talent, isn't it?

It's not about the body anyway. And I was going, I was going, yeah, no, that's that's I would agree with you there, but also like I'm also allowed to think of myself as pretty, and they were like, oh well, yeah, if if you want to, you can do that. Um, but yeah, it doesn't even matter anyway, it's about the talent. And I'm and I just it was so I was like, I'm a naughty girl. I was goading this person. I was like, I was like, let's see what we can really get them to say about me in the open. I can't help it, I can't help her. I can't help it, I can't help it. I do love it. These musical theater types. It's so fascinating when people do try to have conversations, and but they're like, I can only say the right thing, but kind of trying to say the right thing is also saying the absolute wrong thing.

[34:49] Milo Hartill: Oh my god, and that's why they were going, you know, like even people who look like me don't get booked in shows like that, and I was going, yeah. Oh god, I just love it, I love it. And my friend as well, the friend. My friend's looking at me, and she's going, stop it. And I'm going, Well, I'm not saying anything, I'm just asking what she thinks of fat people. We're having fun.

[35:12] Milo Hartill: Oh, it's so funny. It's so funny. Tracy Turnblad. And I'm like, no, actually. What I didn't get cast in my high school production of hairspray because they were like, you'd be a perfect Tracy, but you're black and that the black and white shirts things won't work if you're in it. I was like, fucking hell. Well, here we never have Negro Day. That was a good point. I find it. But also, why were they putting hairspray on? Let's be real. It's probably just a very whitewashed version of it.

[35:43] Milo Hartill: Isn't every version? I literally feel like I had this conversation recently with someone. I was like, why do we keep doing it? Because people love the soundtrack. It sells, but I get like I got constantly from people who are like so outside of creativity. I'm like, oh my god, it would be a great Tracy. And I'm like, because I'm fat. I'm pretty sure that's the only reason you think I would make a great Tracy because I don't think you've even actually heard me sing to know what I sound like. And I'm like, why? Why do you think that? People telling me that I'd make a good Tracy when like one of the main plot points is that she needs to be white. I'm going, would I? Would I really? Am I only doing it in winter when I'm a winter shade with a wig? Alright. That's none of my business. Amazing. There's more roles out there, guys. There are more roles out there.

[36:44] Milo Hartill: Did you kind of have like a uh pivotal moment though as a performer that kind of cemented you on this kind of path and like of being, you know, advocating for yourself, especially like online?

[36:56] Milo Hartill: Oh 2020, 2020 100% like Black Lives Matter and you know Rob Guest endowment and everything that happened around that and doing the AOC initiative I was like I've actually I've got to speak up for myself like and I've got to speak up for other people like me. I think as well you know I had a lot of people reach out who were t who you know were people of colour friends of mine who once were in the performing arts industry and when facing the realities of it decided to go do other things and you know who knows what will happen in my career. Like I was truly I mean I worked very hard but I also was very lucky to have the year I had last year. But who knows maybe I will do this show at theatre works and I won't book anything ever again but it was important for me to get as far as I could to show other people I mean especially I feel like you know we're at a point now in the arts where there are lots of people of colour now are are working and I think we're also at a point where there are lots of queer people working.

I think that we're at a point where lots of bigger bodied white people are working or more bigger body white people working but I feel like there aren't a lot of intersec like it's like you can either you can be black but you need to be skinny or you need you can be fat, but you have to be in every other way the social ideal. And I don't know, I just felt like when I heard all these conversations, saw these conversations, noticed the things that I was experiencing, and spoke to like older people who are a part of the industry. Like I mean, the amount of I was obviously so touched by the amount of people who reached out when I was speaking about these issues who were young people and people my age, but I was really surprised by how many, you know, 40, 50 year old people of colour in the industry reached out.

Like I can't believe that you're speaking out like this at your age. Um and I had Blake at Booker Vist send me a really lovely message that was like, I think it's really cool that you're trying to change the industry as you enter it. And I don't know, I guess like all of those conversations wrapped into one and all of those events. I just was like, I have to speak out about this. And you know, as well, because nobody else was, or not enough people. I mean, even to this day, like a w an almost all white cast announcement came out last week, and I was like, is anybody going to say something? And lo and behold, nobody did, and I po like I resisted posting about it because I 2023 is the year of peace for me.

Um but I am really proud of the work I've done because I was because I just feel as though more people do need to speak up and more people need to feel empowered to speak up, and it's hard to feel empowered to speak up when you've been told you aren't allowed to sit at the table.

[40:16] Milo Hartill: So that was a joining point for me. Yeah, I mean, also just being, I don't know, like, yes, there's something wrong here, but I can't ruffle the feathers to say anything because you know that's gonna affect how my career goes, like how my first year goes out, or like all of these things, but it's and that's why it is really cool that you are doing that because I think it's going, no, actually, we can respect ourselves and say what we feel and still gain that respect from the industry and from our peers, even though we sometimes get told just to be complacent and just to sit there and just let things happen and let it pass.

[40:56] Tori Bullard: For me, seeing you do what you're doing as a bigger body performer, and obviously, I can really only talk on being bigger bodied from for like my own experience. Um, but like seeing the video that you just posted about asking for a seat extender on a pl on on a seatbelt extender on a plane. I recently flew back from seeing Libby in Queensland, and on the way there it was fine, but on the way back was like, oh, this is like uncomfortable to sit here. Like this is I don't know what to do. I've never been in a situation where I need to do this before. Um, so seeing things like that and being like, no, it's I'm allowed to be bigger bodied, and that's okay, has such an impact on me, so I can only imagine the impact that you're having on bicycle performers and bigger bodied performers, and especially I think it's so important because you something that um you've spoken about before is you know, so being able to see performers on stage that represent ourselves makes such a big difference, and I guess kind of leading into the next question, bringing diversity to the stage in Australia is an ongoing conversation. What are some changes that you think we've kind of begun to see but like still really need to be seeing?

[42:19] Milo Hartill: I mean a hundred percent a I mean a huge change that I would love to see is more plus size representation. I specifically with Hairspray all happening I so many of my bigger MT friends who didn't book it were devastated because they were like this is the only thing for me in the musical theatre discography what do I do now like it's come and gone it's not coming back soon and I was devastated with my mates because I was like I was like oh like that's just it it shouldn't be true but it feels like it is because of how intangible a career is as a plus size person. And you know I think that the big the big production companies have seen that it is a financially good choice for them to have POC people in shows like you know lots of companies are like just they're just thinking about the money and they're like oh if we have people of colour in the shows that opens up this market to a whole new demographic of people that have never felt welcome.

Great this diversity thing can make us money in this sector of the community and I and I think that the next choice is being like hey producers also having fat people in roles that aren't just you are the ugly lady who is sad about being fat and ugly.

[43:49] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[43:49] Milo Hartill: Is a good choice. Like, I mean, even with you know, there's been so much amazing diverse TV come out of Australia in the last year, like the amount of amazing shows that have come out that have been Australian produced is like really exciting to see firstly because it's like, yes, look, we can do that screen and film and TV thing. Yay. We don't have to move to the US to do have a career in TV and film. Even in the shows that have been championed for diversity, I'm going, where the hell are the fat people? Fat people exist. Like what? And I was talking to a problematic person that is dating a friend of mine. And you know, he was saying, you know, but on film and TV, like you need to have hot people. And I was going, like, a man who has flirted with me to my face, and I was like, fat people can be hot people. I was like, sorry, my main job is modeling. Like, I am fat people that are hot people. Yes.

[45:00] Tori Bullard: Alright.

[45:01] Milo Hartill: Still your man, and I'll steal your woman. And I'll steal your non-binary friend too.

[45:06] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[45:07] Milo Hartill: I mean, it was it was so funny because like I did a show r like last year, and you know, I'm a size 16 to 18, so I was like, you know, I everyone was like, I want to go for Gladys, the sexy, like secretary, and I didn't even have it on my radar because I went, oh, you know, that's not a role they cast me in. I got cast as that role. Slay. It's like bigger people can be sexy. Like, we aren't just, you know, like I think we put ourselves in a box of like, oh, we only put ourselves in the box because we have already been put in the box by what the industry represents us as.

[45:41] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[45:41] Milo Hartill: Recently I was going for a show and I was auditioning for the lead for quite a while, and then on my last day, and like I get it, it was a comedy role, and I know that they would have thought that I could do that well, because I've been told once or twice that I'm really funny. Um, but like in the last day, they asked me to go for you know ugly side character, and I was like, this is not an interesting choice. Sure, I'm funny, but I just don't think the story of fat brown people are ugly is something that we like need to see anymore. Or if we are gonna see that, like there needs to be equal the other way.

[46:31] Tori Bullard: Yeah, yeah.

[46:32] Milo Hartill: That's just my opinion. You know what? I think that's what I what I want to say. I'm like, I don't just want to see brown people on stages, I want to see and fat people on stages and queer people, not able-bodied people on stages. I want to see, you know, disabled black, fat, queer POC people in lead roles and in roles that are empowering them, not just having them there for the sake of having them there. Just as like a a box to be ticked.

[47:03] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[47:04] Milo Hartill: We'll see how things change. I'm very excited to see how in the next couple of years things will change and like just entering the industry and seeing kind of yeah, the audition process and seeing that kind of shift, or like making it shift yourself. It's you'll have it to advocate for yourself to be like, actually, no, I actually want to be seen for this role. Please see me for it. Like, I think I'd actually be really good at this. Just letting you know. I know myself pretty well.

[47:31] Tori Bullard: Yep.

[47:32] Milo Hartill: And I guess, like, lastly, uh, for our last question of the podcast today, do you have any advice for performers who feel out of place and underrepresented in theatre to keep pushing?

[47:46] Milo Hartill: I think my first bit of advice would be with whatever finances you have to support to make sure you're supporting theatre that is championing, champion championing people that look like you have your morals and your values, getting out to see new Australian theatre, um, and supporting new Australian theatre that is also championing those things. That's a really hard word to say championing, championing, championing, championing, championing. That's really hard to say. Um, another bit of advice would be to you know, diversify your narratives and diversify your feeds. I think that that in terms of like the theatre you're watching, the people that you're following, the ads that you're looking at, the brands that you support, checking like what the kinds of people that they decide to have modeling for them, the influences that you follow, the influences you have.

I think making sure that you really do do your work and know your history, you know, your history of musical theatre should not stop at Rogers and Hammerstein, and you know, your history of plays should not stop at Shakespeare, and the books you're reading should not all be by white folk. I think, yeah, I think that's very important. And also that you can do this, and that you deserve to do this, um, regardless of who you are. That's for that's for my white girls and my white boys listening at home too. You know, my white folks, you everybody deserves to be here, but I think it's about you know, making sure that that everybody feels that they are welcome in these spaces, and if you're not feeling welcome in a space, then there will be another space for you.

[49:48] Tori Bullard: That's some really good advice.

[49:50] Milo Hartill: Thanks.

[49:50] Tori Bullard: Yeah, that's right. It's so important to yeah, to champion diverse theatre, but educate yourself too, and like just make sure you're looking at different artists that aren't just the ones that are put in front of you. And I think as well, like looking at diversity, it benefits everybody.

[50:10] Milo Hartill: Like, yeah, you know, you don't know what you're missing out on until you put yourself in a position where you're able to access it.

[50:17] Tori Bullard: Absolutely.

[50:18] Milo Hartill: Such wonderful advice, and thank you so much as well for taking the time and coming on and chatting with us today.

[50:18] Tori Bullard: Thank you.

[50:25] Milo Hartill: Such a phenomenal way to kick off our fourth year of doing this, which has been a very long time when you let's go. Before we go, we have our little segment of bedtime stories.

[50:40] Tori Bullard: Do you have a bedtime story for us today?

[50:42] Milo Hartill: Yes, yes, I do. Once upon a time.

[50:49] Tori Bullard: Um, yeah, okay, what's my bedtime story gonna be?

[50:54] Milo Hartill: I have got a costume malfunction. In Fangirls, as everybody knows, there is a lot of quick changes. And I got to one of the quick changes, and our dresser port thing had to dress me and the fantastic Mel O'Brien, and uh musical theatre up and comer, Jessie Dutlow, and she had finished them, boom, and I am there, and like my line was coming when I had to go out, and like we like really quickly like put everything on, and we shoved my wig on, and I walked out and like I did my first lines, and then we got to there's a bit of curry that is hip hop and nod, hip-hop and nod, and I did the first one, I did the second one, and on the third one, my wig flew off to the front of the audience, and everyone in the audience started laughing, and I looked like a deer in the head, like kept going, but my face was like and then everybody else was laughing because it was so ridiculous that my wig had flown like that, and then I had to run and pick it up before doing my final quick change, and I still was laughing on the inside for the rest of the show. Because what are the odds of my fucking wig going baboon scar?

[52:12] Tori Bullard: Your dance moves were just so good that your wig was snatched.

[52:15] Milo Hartill: It was just like it's too much, I can't be here anymore.

[52:17] Tori Bullard: The wig was indeed snatched.

[52:19] Milo Hartill: I was indeed shocked.

[52:22] Tori Bullard: That is too good.

[52:23] Milo Hartill: We gate 2022 at the opera house.

[52:27] Tori Bullard: Yeah, I wish someone videoed that.

[52:29] Milo Hartill: It could be out there. There's definitely a video of me stacking it up the opera house stage as well on our final preview.

[52:36] Tori Bullard: Very funny.

[52:37] Milo Hartill: I uh committed to the bit to the commando role, and one of the audience members was like, I loved that change they did from the second to the third preview. I was like, Yeah.

[52:46] Tori Bullard: It was really creative.

[52:48] Milo Hartill: Such like, you know, we just felt we needed a little bit more spice.

[52:50] Tori Bullard: Bold offers, yeah.

[52:52] Milo Hartill: Bold offers, bold offers only.

[52:54] Tori Bullard: Thank you both so much for having me.

[52:56] Milo Hartill: Thank you so much for being here.

[52:58] Tori Bullard: This was a fantastic way to start off the year.

[53:01] Milo Hartill: And uh if you guys want to follow Milo, make sure to head to her Instagram, which is just MiloHartil.

[53:09] Tori Bullard: Yeah, and make sure you guys give a follow because there's some cool shit happening over there.

[53:13] Milo Hartill: Try my best.

[53:15] Tori Bullard: Thank y'all. That is the end of today's interview. But everyone, thank you so much for being here with us.

[53:20] Milo Hartill: We will see you in the next episode.

[53:21] Tori Bullard: And until then, stay happy, healthy, and safe.

[53:23] Milo Hartill: And we will see you then.

[53:24] Tori Bullard: Bye.