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[0:02] Tori Bullard: You're listening to Stage Door Podcast, the podcast celebrating theatre and creativity from on stage mishaps to career defining moments.

[0:12] Eliza Gunther: Hosted by Thespians, myself, Tori, and co-host Eliza.

[0:15] Tori Bullard: Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives, and more.

[0:22] Tori Bullard: Hello everyone, and welcome back to Stage Door Podcast.

[0:26] Tori Bullard: Today we are joined by one of the stars of the upcoming play, The Eisteddfod, Ziggy Resnick.

[0:32] Tori Bullard: But before we get started, I would like to acknowledge the thorough people of the Aurora Nation and the Rurundry people of the Coolin Nation.

[0:39] Tori Bullard: We pay respects to the traditional custodians, past and present, and strive to continue in the traditions of Australia's first storytellers.

[0:47] Tori Bullard: We acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded.

[0:49] Tori Bullard: Always was, always will be.

[0:51] Tori Bullard: Ziggy graduated NIDA's acting BFA in 2022.

[0:56] Tori Bullard: Since the Institute, Ziggy starred in Girls and Boys' Cars at Riverside Theatre, Feminazzi at Belvoir's 25A, A is for Apple with Griffin Theatre, How to Defend Yourself with the Old Fitz Theatre, and The Eisteddfod at the Old Fitz Theatre.

[1:10] Tori Bullard: Ziggy also toured with Belle Shakespeare's Players in 2022 and worked as a clown on Opera Australia's Ernani.

[1:18] Tori Bullard: Please welcome to the mic, Ziggy.

[1:20] Ziggy Resnick: Hey!

[1:21] Ziggy Resnick: Thank you so much.

[1:23] Tori Bullard: Thank you so much for coming on.

[1:24] Ziggy Resnick: Thank you.

[1:25] Tori Bullard: This is very exciting because Ziggy and I actually went to uni together.

[1:29] Tori Bullard: My short stint at AIM.

[1:31] Ziggy Resnick: Very short stint at AIM.

[1:34] Tori Bullard: Which is how you kind of started, I guess, your career in theatre, which is crazy.

[1:40] Ziggy Resnick: Actually, it's so true because not that many people even know that I started in musical theatre.

[1:45] Ziggy Resnick: Because if you heard me sing or dance now, it's a bit of a joke.

[1:49] Tori Bullard: But I doubt that you were so good back then.

[1:53] Ziggy Resnick: But you know, I still am in touch with and see him all the time, our acting teacher Tony Cogan.

[1:59] Tori Bullard: I loved Tony Cogan.

[2:03] Ziggy Resnick: Love the Cogan.

[2:04] Ziggy Resnick: He was so good.

[2:06] Ziggy Resnick: He really liked it.

[2:06] Tori Bullard: I was like, oh, that's right. I'm doing musical theatre so I can act.

[2:10] Ziggy Resnick: Understood.

[2:11] Tori Bullard: Was that kind of like the turning point for you where you're like, yes, I need to go and do acting instead of musical theatre?

[2:18] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah.

[2:19] Ziggy Resnick: Well, I sort of did it because I was like trying to get into all these schools, didn't get into any, and then got into AIM.

[2:24] Ziggy Resnick: Like, how old was I? 19 years old.

[2:26] Ziggy Resnick: It was like, the universe provides. I'll go to AIM.

[2:31] Ziggy Resnick: And then they had made me like notate shit.

[2:35] Ziggy Resnick: And I was like, never done this before.

[2:36] Ziggy Resnick: But it's like funny because there's so many people now that like I'm like, I know you from AIM.

[2:42] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[2:42] Tori Bullard: I mean, both, I mean, Tori was from AIM.

[2:45] Tori Bullard: Like, there's so many people that end up going in such different paths.

[2:49] Ziggy Resnick: I found yours probably one of the most interesting out of our cohort.

[2:53] Ziggy Resnick: Because you ended up going into like straight acting, and now you don't do musical theatre, which is so interesting because then other people are like off in London, or I don't know.

[3:03] Ziggy Resnick: Everyone's just kind of everywhere, which is so it's so fun.

[3:07] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah, and like I got into NIDA.

[3:10] Ziggy Resnick: There was an elective call, like a part of it's an elective, and you're a part of it you had to sort of show which elective you'd want to be a part of.

[3:18] Ziggy Resnick: So I did sing, and it turned out that was a big part of why I got in.

[3:22] Ziggy Resnick: They wanted me to do the third year musical, but I got to third year, and I didn't even choose musical theatre as my elective.

[3:27] Ziggy Resnick: I became really into classical text, and I was like, I don't want to sing, I don't want to sing, I don't like it.

[3:35] Ziggy Resnick: And now I regret that because I should have actually learned to sing longer than I did.

[3:41] Ziggy Resnick: Now I'm always like, does anybody want to teach me?

[3:43] Tori Bullard: I mean, yeah, you can go back and learn now.

[3:45] Ziggy Resnick: Thank you. I needed to hear that. Hopefully I do something with that.

[3:49] Ziggy Resnick: But I don't know. People think that like you go to university and like that's once you're done university, that's like you're like prepared and ready, and you're just gonna like hit the big time immediately.

[4:00] Ziggy Resnick: And it's like, actually, no, you continue learning after uni.

[4:03] Tori Bullard: We've kind of started at the beginning of your journey, especially within university.

[4:08] Tori Bullard: But what inspired you to pursue theatre?

[4:11] Ziggy Resnick: It's interesting, actually, because like acting in general was never really a question for me.

[4:17] Ziggy Resnick: I just always knew I was gonna do it.

[4:20] Ziggy Resnick: And interestingly, I had an audition the other day where the director was like, Why'd you do this? And I was like, because I had to like I can't do anything else.

[4:23] Ziggy Resnick: I can't do anything else.

[4:29] Ziggy Resnick: Which is interesting because I'm sure we'll talk about writing and producing, and they're all like acting adjacent, but I do it all so I can act.

[4:38] Ziggy Resnick: Like it's just a part of who I am.

[4:40] Ziggy Resnick: It's if not all of who I am, but that's a whole nother story.

[4:45] Ziggy Resnick: Um it's yeah, it just wasn't a question.

[4:49] Ziggy Resnick: Theatre is just my love, but I suppose like I do really want to do more film, but even though my heart is in theatre, it's be it's like it they tell you it's so similar, but I don't think it is.

[5:03] Ziggy Resnick: Like, I really like when I'm doing auditions or like short films, it's such a different craft, and I haven't quite like nurtured the love of film in the way that I've nurtured from like literally being born to performing, like I always did it as a kid, and there's some really formative performances that I saw growing up.

[5:27] Ziggy Resnick: Um, but some people grow up seeing formative films, whereas I saw formative shows, you know?

[5:34] Ziggy Resnick: So that's probably what I was inspired by.

[5:37] Ziggy Resnick: Like when I was little, like the first thing I ever saw was Billy Elliott.

[5:40] Ziggy Resnick: I don't know if you like when it was his and my whole family went to see it without me, and I like cried for days.

[5:49] Ziggy Resnick: I was so angry, you know, like spoiled kid.

[5:54] Ziggy Resnick: Um so my dad took me, and I stood up on the chair at the end, and I was like, and I couldn't believe it, it was like Tony Cogan also played the dad at that time.

[6:04] Tori Bullard: So weird.

[6:05] Ziggy Resnick: He didn't.

[6:06] Tori Bullard: Yes, he did.

[6:08] Ziggy Resnick: He's always been there.

[6:10] Tori Bullard: What a legend.

[6:11] Ziggy Resnick: This is and like, yeah, that was that was it for me.

[6:13] Ziggy Resnick: Like on and I kept the I've still got the program, and me and my best friend who's still a performer now, very different, like a commercial dancer.

[6:22] Ziggy Resnick: We learnt every song, you know.

[6:26] Ziggy Resnick: I just wanted to be that girl that comes in and says, like, she comes in and she says, Do you want to see my fatty? And I thought, yeah, that'll be me.

[6:36] Tori Bullard: What an aspiration.

[6:38] Ziggy Resnick: What an aspiration.

[6:39] Ziggy Resnick: I'm too old now.

[6:41] Tori Bullard: Figure and better things.

[6:43] Ziggy Resnick: I have no concept of age anymore.

[6:45] Ziggy Resnick: Because honestly, looking at you, I'm like, you're like freshly 18.

[6:48] Ziggy Resnick: I'm like, you're not.

[6:49] Ziggy Resnick: I think we're the same age, and I'm like, you're you're a child.

[6:53] Ziggy Resnick: Oh, I since I graduated in 2020, I have played exclusively 12, 12 years old to 18.

[7:03] Ziggy Resnick: And like that's it.

[7:05] Ziggy Resnick: I'll only really play 23 on film, I can age up, but I've played 12 year olds, 12 year olds, and mostly 16 is my like I'll win them if it's 16.

[7:18] Tori Bullard: But that's such a powerful spot to be in, though.

[7:21] Tori Bullard: Like, even if you transfer to film, like you just get to play all these young people, but you're not in the turmoil of being a young, like a 16-year-old.

[7:21] Ziggy Resnick: You just get to like relive the messy parts of being a 16-year-old.

[7:37] Ziggy Resnick: It's fun.

[7:38] Ziggy Resnick: It's so fun to play kid.

[7:39] Ziggy Resnick: None of my choices make sense.

[7:41] Tori Bullard: Oh, neither do 16-year-olds.

[7:43] Ziggy Resnick: No.

[7:44] Ziggy Resnick: Exactly.

[7:45] Tori Bullard: But I mean, obviously, we're here today to talk about The Eisteddfod, which is going to be playing at the Old Fitz as part of their late night series.

[7:53] Tori Bullard: What is The Eisteddfod? Tell us about it.

[7:55] Ziggy Resnick: So I thought about reading my synopsis because I have struggled so much with it.

[8:00] Ziggy Resnick: But if I read it, then I'll explain to you what it's about.

[8:03] Tori Bullard: Okay.

[8:04] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah.

[8:05] Ziggy Resnick: Okay, I'll tell you.

[8:06] Ziggy Resnick: Goethe and Abalone, the two characters.

[8:08] Ziggy Resnick: Goethe is played by Fraser Crane.

[8:11] Ziggy Resnick: He is an incredible man, don't tell him that.

[8:15] Ziggy Resnick: But he yeah, he was in Dumb Kids, a KXD.

[8:19] Ziggy Resnick: Anyway, I go on about him for ages.

[8:21] Ziggy Resnick: He's a wonderful person.

[8:22] Ziggy Resnick: Dumb Kid was one of the best pieces of theatre I've ever seen.

[8:26] Tori Bullard: Just saying.

[8:26] Ziggy Resnick: Yep.

[8:27] Ziggy Resnick: Shout out to that team.

[8:29] Ziggy Resnick: We actually grew up together, Fraser and I.

[8:31] Ziggy Resnick: He was in a lot of productions that I was in when I was like in year 11 and 12, he was in Into the Woods.

[8:38] Ziggy Resnick: I just think it's incredible to see Fraser's journey from like being little Fraser in year 10, and now Fraser's like doing so well.

[8:45] Tori Bullard: And oh, I wish I could have had him with me.

[8:48] Ziggy Resnick: I know.

[8:48] Ziggy Resnick: When you come see the show, you'll have to tell him this because I don't know if he's put it together.

[8:53] Tori Bullard: I love that it's both of you.

[8:55] Ziggy Resnick: I was like, what? This is so crazy.

[8:57] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah, he's um we met doing How to Defend Yourself at Old Fitz in 2022 and then moved in together and have been like inseparable ever since.

[9:06] Tori Bullard: I love it.

[9:07] Ziggy Resnick: Sorry to interrupt, continue.

[9:09] Ziggy Resnick: No, I actually love that.

[9:11] Ziggy Resnick: So Goethe, played by Fraser Crane, and Abalone, myself, uh agoraphobic.

[9:16] Ziggy Resnick: So left to their own devices after the tragic death of their parents in a tree pruning accident.

[9:21] Ziggy Resnick: They prepare to win The Eisteddfod with the performance of a lifetime, Macbeth.

[9:27] Ziggy Resnick: So I've written here, absurdity and dark humour coalesce with an ugly truth in Lally Katz's beloved black comedy, The Eisteddfod, as we watch two siblings turn their back on reality and run headfirst into play pretend.

[9:38] Ziggy Resnick: But as the world of imagination slowly disintegrates, where do we go when reality is too hard to face?

[9:43] Ziggy Resnick: It's a wacky and weird homage to stories, those that tell them, hear them, and need them to survive.

[9:49] Ziggy Resnick: So it's been really interesting reflecting on what is The Eisteddfod about.

[9:54] Ziggy Resnick: Because the first time I picked it up, I picked it up because it was in a monologue list for a general audition I did in 2021.

[10:01] Ziggy Resnick: And I was like, well, I gotta read the whole play.

[10:03] Ziggy Resnick: And then I read the whole play and I was like, mm-hmm I'm gonna put this on.

[10:05] Ziggy Resnick: And it's taken me since 2024 for someone to agree.

[10:10] Ziggy Resnick: Um so it's about two siblings.

[10:13] Ziggy Resnick: It's dark comedy and it is absurd.

[10:16] Ziggy Resnick: So everything that they oh yeah, I was saying, sorry.

[10:20] Ziggy Resnick: Um, every time I go back to it, I realize it's about something else.

[10:23] Ziggy Resnick: And now exploring it in the depth that we are exploring it, it has become about something so different than what I thought.

[10:30] Ziggy Resnick: Like, because I think at first I really thought, oh, it's about make believe and how much we need stories as storytellers, but then I've realized over time that it's very much about a relationship that's at breaking point between these two siblings when two people want very different things as a result of a life-changing situation, so their parents dying, which it's a comedy, and we never really talk about like you know, it's a tree pruning accident, but um that grief and loss and how it affects people so differently.

[11:04] Ziggy Resnick: Really, Goethe and Abalone have these completely different reactions to this, and we see that play out, and we see that relationship just completely fracture in that 15 minute period.

[11:17] Ziggy Resnick: Um yeah, it's just been so interesting because when my when the director, so it's co-directed by Jess Bell and Miranda Middleton, and when Miranda first read it, she was like, It's about grief, and I was like, Oh, is it?

[11:34] Ziggy Resnick: Didn't know that, and then you we keep like uncovering all these things, and I really think because Lally is such a genius, and she writes so she writes in almost allegory, so you're constantly mining this text for like what they're actually saying, but I really believe that everybody is going to come out with something so different because it's so real in the way that it averts truth through story through language, and they're constantly running from the truth of what they're feeling.

[12:08] Eliza Gunther: It's like Shakespeare, almost.

[12:11] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah, and there are bits of Shakespeare in it, but that's almost how she writes so many layers.

[12:17] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, it's a very interesting story.

[12:19] Ziggy Resnick: It's something very different to put on.

[12:22] Eliza Gunther: And I mean, you did briefly mention to us that there was a very like, although this is this is a very unique show, the process has also been a little bit unique in the way it's been cast and also through rehearsals. Can you tell us a little bit about how that process unfolded?

[12:37] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah, so we originally, when I first read it, I was like, Oh, I'll play the girl. I always play the girl. I was, you know, born a girl. Um, and then I read it and I was like, uh, I'm lucky because this team is a team of people who I like. I've I've wrote read a play with Miranda. I've worked with her since 2019, and Fraser is my best friend. And anyway, I called them and I said, I think I think I should play Abalone. And then Miranda was like, maybe. And Fraser was like, maybe. And we sort of just had this idea up in the air. And then it got to the first read and I read as Goethe, it got to the second read I read as Ebalone. And like even myself included, we were like, oh, we don't even know who could play who.

They are sort of, they are adults, they are 23 years old, but they have been inside for two years. They have been sort of stunted in their growth, and they play a lot as children in that same dynamic that they've had as children that haven't gone outside. Um, and so we were almost we've just gone through all of these sort of as you do when you're dramaturging a play, like, is it a comment on something? Maybe if we put a cis cis man's body in this female role where there is so many um comments on gendered violence, what will that read? And then did the whole play. It's also been a a weird rehearsal process in that Miranda was here for two weeks, has gone to put on the grinning man in the Alex Theatre in Melbourne, which is just incredible.

And then is coming back for a week. So Jess has been there in the interim. But we sort of blocked the whole play loosely, and then ran it as both characters. And then basically were like, okay, Jess and Miranda. What do you think? And they were like, oh wow. Zig is Avalone and Fraser is Goethe. But we spent two weeks going running every scene and unpacking it together, first as one character, then as another character. And it was the best fun. Like, especially watching somebody that you admire their craft, but me and Fraser work in very different ways. Tackle a scene and a character, and then you watch them, and then you come in and you it was very hard on your brain, but it was so freeing to not become attached to anything or anyone, and to spend two weeks in pursuit of a story in pursuit of making the right choice for a story, and and taking just like what is inevitably, I suppose, ego as an actor out and servicing the story, and then being told, oh, you will service this story as this character. It was just so freeing, yeah.

[15:42] Eliza Gunther: It seems so rare to get the opportunity to really take, I guess, ego out of it because it's like you have not been prescribed this. Like, this is not your role that you're playing. It's like, oh, we're just gonna create, and then what is the best story? Like that facilitates what's best for the play and you won't know that until you get in the room. Sometimes you don't always get that moulding or like the go at switching and seeing where you best fit. So it's awesome you got to do that with this.

[16:12] Ziggy Resnick: Such a privilege because actually at one point we said oh we're gonna cut toss a coin every night we're gonna toss a coin we're gonna play both characters. But the text is so uh the characters are so um so just so much deeper than we thought so we were like oh that is such a challenge for a 10-day rut show that starts at 9 pm and the idea is fun yeah yeah so it's uh genuinely wish I could do that for everything especially the two hander yeah I mean it being the first production in 20 years why do you think Australian audiences need to see this show?

[16:54] Ziggy Resnick: So it's by chance that I realized that it'd been 20 years. For me I was like this is you know earlier I mentioned how it was almost Shakespearean in its form and not its form. In more of its language. Yeah. Um and we talk about Shakespeare we talk about I mean it's true. Shakespeare being this universal text that doesn't truly age it just recontextualizes itself. I feel the same with Lallycat's The Steadford. I do like there it is it deals with this subject of grief and loss and how we cope and that is always going to be something that we revisit. I think obviously us doing it and rehearsing it and casting it in the way that we have changed and interrogated subjects that I think Lally didn't wasn't interrogating or perhaps wasn't interrogating in the way that we inevitably are by the bodies that we've put on stage and the language and the text that they are saying.

Um but it is very pertinent. And as we got into rehearsals, we had this discussion about how these they are, and I so don't want to bring this into it, but um they're agoraphobic, and how that's sort of reflective of a COVID slash post-COVID era, where we've had this fear of going outside. It just suddenly agoraphobia became this very relatable where I was like, oh, oh, I know what that I know it's like it's a mental illness, and but the pertinence for a broader uh sort of under the pertinence and the broader understanding that we have of it has changed and shifted since 20 years ago because we all know that feeling of entrapment and also that the fear, and on top of that, what people did in this COVID and post-COVID era was in the face of fear and in the face of reality becoming sort of unknown and an unknown space, the outside becoming something that it wasn't before, artists and everybody else turned to Netflix, we turned to stories, we turned to reading, we turned to writing, and that's what it is. It's this it's grief and loss and fear, and how that makes us run and turn headfirst into play pretend. I just think that is something that artists or not do, whether they are conscious of it or not.

[19:22] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, yeah, and and the two characters deal with it very differently as well. Abalone is completely like this world of play pretend and this world of imagination is what has sort of is it's all he's learnt, whereas Gerda is forced to question in the face of loss and grief, question and challenge all of her previous worldviews. Um so it's almost like these two completely conflicting ideas of what happens just became more and more pertinent the more that we've been exploring it.

[19:55] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah, and I guess it kind of makes it in that sense of whilst it's not what the show is about, it does make specifically in terms of agoraphobia and it being a mental illness that many people might not understand or know what it even could feel like. There is now kind of a sense of understanding of even just understanding what it would feel like to for that to be in your life in a small portion because of COVID and because of the impact that it had on how we now how differently we all live our lives now, even if it feels normal, it's not how we were living our lives in 2019, and it would give just like even the smallest bit of insight into what that would feel like living in that world.

[20:38] Ziggy Resnick: No, entirely, and they these two characters are battling with a lot. Like there is a lot going on there, and almost a follow-on effect of agoraphobia is tracked as well in the play, or it feels like it's a relatable piece of work as well. I think there's something in it for everyone that comes and watches. Either they might learn something new, or they can see aspects of themselves in either character, which is very exciting.

[21:05] Eliza Gunther: And I guess you this is not the only show at the old fits as a part of their late night programme. Are there any other shows you're excited to see during their run?

[21:16] Ziggy Resnick: I'm excited for everything. I really think that there are some really interesting things and like the confines and the constraints of late night theatre, um of the late night slots and old fits is that you are using their sets, you can't rig any more lights, you uh have a 15-minute turnaround. I really think it's quite a feat. Like, even with like I have like a very large team behind me for a show that is 50 minutes long, that is set in one room, like it's a it's a feat, and we haven't done it yet. Um I'm really looking forward to no love songs for lady basses. That's Shiana's show, and uh directed by Cassie Hamilton. Yeah, Cheyana is brilliant. I worked with Cassie and Cheyana recently on a development and just like such interesting brains, such exhilarating ideas of what theatre is and can be. So I'm really really keen to see that.

[22:14] Eliza Gunther: I love that.

[22:15] Ziggy Resnick: I love that.

[22:17] Eliza Gunther: Well, we can't wait to see the Astetfit. It's gonna be absolutely incredible. So anyone listening, make sure you definitely check that out, and we'll have all the details later on. But to kind of break things up a little bit, I think we're gonna move into a game.

[22:29] Ziggy Resnick: So today we have a game of this or that. We're gonna give you some questions and you give us your response.

[22:38] Ziggy Resnick: Okay.

[22:39] Eliza Gunther: Okay, first one. Read your favourite book or watch the TV adaptation.

[22:45] Ziggy Resnick: My favourite book.

[22:47] Eliza Gunther: Mm-hmm.

[22:48] Ziggy Resnick: I thought you might be. I mean, the TV adaptation is never as good. That's the thing.

[22:51] Ziggy Resnick: I wi I yep, no, sorry. Even if it's good, it's never as good.

[22:57] Ziggy Resnick: It's always it's different. It's completely different. Alright, the next one is, uh, would you rather beach or a farm day?

[23:03] Tori Bullard: Beach.

[23:04] Ziggy Resnick: Uh ocean baby. Went for a swim today.

[23:06] Eliza Gunther: Yeah.

[23:07] Ziggy Resnick: Star in a Shakespeare play or a Chekhov play?

[23:10] Tori Bullard: I think I know the shape.

[23:11] Ziggy Resnick: Oh Shakespeare.

[23:13] Tori Bullard: Get in.

[23:14] Ziggy Resnick: Couldn't get me into a Chekhov unless it was like in Russian.

[23:16] Tori Bullard: Yeah.

[23:17] Ziggy Resnick: No. No, thank you. I'll take a Shakespeare any day.

[23:21] Eliza Gunther: You never know though. You gotta ask the question.

[23:24] Ziggy Resnick: No, I like the question. Also I would definitely do a Chekhov. Because I can see you in both, you know?

[23:32] Tori Bullard: Thank you. One day. Alright, the next one is sandals or crocs?

[23:36] Ziggy Resnick: Crocs.

[23:37] Tori Bullard: Nothing else to be said to that.

[23:39] Eliza Gunther: You're a crocs person.

[23:40] Ziggy Resnick: I'm gay. I want to buy a pair of crocs, but I cannot for the life of me decide which ones I want to get.

[23:47] Tori Bullard: Yeah, because now they're trendy.

[23:48] Ziggy Resnick: They're expensive. You have to make the decision wisely.

[23:50] Eliza Gunther: Yeah. It's like with anything now though. I find shoes are like if I buy a pair of shoes, that's like half my grocery money for the month.

[23:59] Ziggy Resnick: I did buy a pair of shoes and picked up an extra shift. Texted my boss, I said, Do you need anyone? I said and she said yes. I said, Oh buy the shoes.

[24:08] Tori Bullard: That's a great that's like a great deciding factor. Can I get an extra shift at work? Yes, great. I'll buy the shoes. It's my thing. Because I wouldn't have made that money anyway. So the shoes are free.

[24:18] Ziggy Resnick: Uh what did they like? What do they say? It's like good math. Girl math. You know, like you got the math.

[24:23] Eliza Gunther: Girl math. There we go. Good math. Good math. Go math.

[24:28] Ziggy Resnick: I love it. Okay. Lucky last one. Forget the words on stage or have a costume malfunction?

[24:36] Tori Bullard: Wait, so what I'd prefer?

[24:38] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah.

[24:38] Tori Bullard: Yeah, what would you prefer? Obviously, you don't want either to happen, but if one of them had to happen.

[24:45] Ziggy Resnick: Co a costume malfunction? My initial impulse was the other one. I was like, I can improv. But then I was like, but I could also improv around a costume malfunction. Costume malfunction's almost funnier in a lot of ways.

[24:57] Eliza Gunther: It's quite funny. That's the end of our little game. Um and jumping back into it, we obviously talked a little bit on you know, producing theatre and you know, it kind of feeding the fact that you can then act within that. But how did you get into producing theatre and what kind of projects are you most drawn to?

[25:20] Ziggy Resnick: So this is my first show that I'm properly producing. I'm earlier this year produced with uh the person that's producing the Est Fit as well, Monique Placot. And we're co-producing we co-produced a show as a part of the Flying Nun season at Brand X. Um, which was a I didn't act in, but I wrote with Lanika Den. And then now we're producing this.

[25:45] Ziggy Resnick: I'm not made for producing theatre. It is so hard. And now, whenever I meet produ it's I can't not be honest. But no, be honest. Like I meet producers now and I go, yeah, hard, hard. Don't want to do it again. Good though. Glad I know how to do it. And I think I would do it again. It's actually quite fun and um satisfying, but I think I would like to produce something that I'm not acting in.

[26:17] Ziggy Resnick: Which is interesting because I did say I produced so that I could act, which is genuinely what you have to do sometimes in this industry is like be like, especially at the moment, producing is such a hard job that a lot of the producers that I admire have been like, I you know, I didn't I produced I pitched this show to the old fits and they said yes, and I was like, okay, well, better get a producer involved, and everyone was like, nah, I'm taking a break. And I was like, okay, yeah. But everybody was taking a break, and I was like, uh, it's supposed to be hard, I'll do it. And look, yeah, it's I have been learning on the on the job, but that's not your question.

[26:54] Ziggy Resnick: I could tell you about that, but that's that's not your question. I think what I am drawn to to produce now or in the future, it's just anyone doing something different. Like, I don't really care if it's Shakespeare. Obviously, I'm an absolute Shakespeare nerd. I want to do Shakespeare, that's my end goal. Um, but if it's classical text or work that's never been done before, Alice Birch Revolt, she said, don't, you know, I don't as long as the team is interested in interrogating authentically what they're trying to do.

[27:27] Ziggy Resnick: Like, I think what has kept me so like going from producer to writer to actor, whatever I can do to stay in this community, is because of the people, and so I would produce a show if the people on it wanted, and especially when you are producing, my aim is always to get young, gender non-conforming, queer people into the theater because it's not been the space where they've been invited into. Yeah, and that's a big part of what I'm pushing for in everything that I do.

[28:04] Ziggy Resnick: And I think producing it's such an asset because now that I know how to do that, I know I sort of have this broader understanding of why it has been that way and why we so need to change it. Um, so I really think, especially in independent theatre, it's for the people and it's for what they're trying to do. More so than wow, it's like incredible writing about you know the making of the printer. I don't uh I just don't care really. I just I really believe in the people you work with.

[28:49] Eliza Gunther: Yeah. And the passion that's there as well.

[28:52] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah, because you can have the world's most amazing play, and then your team are at each other's throats, and what you end up with is a really sad group of people on stage. You know, it's it doesn't matter how good it is.

[29:06] Eliza Gunther: So accurate.

[29:07] Ziggy Resnick: I think it's also that mentality that I think we've spoken about a bit on the podcast, and people have spoken to us about that it does start from the top, like the people, the producers, the casting, the playwrights. It starts there making it accessible and inclusive. It doesn't just come from the people that are cast in the show, and the people that are cast in the show can't make it a safe space to work in. They can make it safe amongst themselves, but they can't make it safe for everybody else involved. So it really does start from the top down.

[29:41] Eliza Gunther: Absolutely.

[29:42] Ziggy Resnick: That's yeah, so so agree with you there. I guess kind of on that note, I might skip to the next question in a way, and we'll come back. We'll come back to producing a little bit. But through that lens of being AFAB and non-binary, how do you feel the casting in Australia is shifting? And how do you think we can make it more accessible?

[30:05] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah, I'm glad you skipped. I really really feel like in Australia, I can only really talk to Australia. We are so in 2019. I went to London and I saw Royal Shakespeare Company's Taming of the Shrew. And on stage there was someone who was out of hearing, who signed all of her lines, there was someone in a wheelchair. You know, you there was and the way that they had approached it was it was just in their in the text. They had almost dramaturged this Shakespeare, and it was also gender flipped.

[30:43] Ziggy Resnick: So um I love that it was a matriarchal society. So every bit of dramaturgy, yeah, was like about the actors. It wasn't like, oh cut it's so similar to even the rehearsal process that I was describing before. It was like once these actors existed, it was their natural, it was who they are, their authenticity was then dramaturged as a part of the script. So it for me, I was like, oh, we have so much to do to get to where I suppose London, you know, it it truly is the Royal Shakespeare Company.

[31:22] Ziggy Resnick: But the fact that they're the they're doing the most sort of um controversial, like what if if that happened in Australia, like we wouldn't shut up about it. But this was just one of three, you know? It's a rep company, those actors are in all three of the productions that season, that's just how it is. So they're the best actors for this role. It's not written into Shakespeare, but they've still made it. These characters can never be played in another way because we've adapted the script, because we've made these jokes about this person and that person. So that's how it is.

[31:57] Ziggy Resnick: And that's sort of I'll never forget that as sort of setting my bar for what I want to make. Yeah. Um, but I can I know that it is top-down, but I do really believe that it's us, like it's the young, emerging artists that are doing the most. There is some incredible things happening, like Reese at MTC, who is a non-binary casting director, and like that is like it just like I think they have no idea how how much just their existence in that role means, and evolution casting, you know, all of these things are really making the most impact.

[32:37] Ziggy Resnick: But I think there are people that I have worked with. I will speak to Feminazzi um by Lonika Den, which I did last year, and it just taught me so much. Lanika is like three years younger than me and is just so smart, just knew what it meant to create a space that is living and breathing and moving because it was such a mission of theirs to create a space, a story that was written by queer people for queer people, for them to come into this space because it is it's always the theatre has always been a political space, it has always been something that is constantly in flux and shifting and moving, and it doesn't belong to white cis Eurocentric men that are the arbitrators of what is good art, and I sort of always remember that being rejected sometimes from you know these bigger roles or main stage roles, it's not being rejected by the entire arts community, it's being rejected by perhaps what was, and maybe that's a strength of mine.

[33:42] Ziggy Resnick: It's like been all these rejections have taken me closer to finding my people. It's it's always that balance, I think, especially being AF and non-binary. It's like you give up parts of yourself in order to do your job, and always, actually, always as an actor, you're giving up parts of yourself when you accept a role. But I do think that the more time you become acquainted with who you really are, and when you do these things that you're like, well, oh, I mean, I spent months deliberating over cutting my hair, because like Eliza, when you knew me, like my hair was down to my bum, and it was this I'm never gonna get cast, and and and what what does that mean?

[34:29] Ziggy Resnick: But really, what was stopping me from getting roles was I was in like complete inner turmoil, and ever since then, I'm still so far away from being an authentic version of myself. But to be the truest version of yourself is the biggest risk you can take, but it is so worth it. It's so hard to believe that.

[34:54] Tori Bullard: I think you have to know yourself first to then know what you're willing to say yes or no to, and yeah, like I can see how different you are even now.

[35:06] Ziggy Resnick: Like from back then, you feel much more yourself, and that's what people are drawn to all the time is who you are as your truest self.

[35:06] Tori Bullard: Absolutely, because you want to be seen for who you are.

[35:18] Ziggy Resnick: Like I had this very much like, wait, but I'm not just this thing, you know? Why do I have to sort of tick these boxes to get into this room and then tick those boxes to get into those rooms? I was like, I don't want to.

[35:39] Tori Bullard: That's so...

[35:39] Ziggy Resnick: Yeah. No, I want to be seen as an actor and as a performer for me, not for how I identify. I understand that that is part of who I am, but I don't want it to be like, oh yeah, we'll get them in because they're non-binary, and therefore we are filling our quota of diversity by allowing them in the room or allowing them in the production.

[36:01] Tori Bullard: And I really, I'm so optimistic.

[36:04] Ziggy Resnick: I feel everyone I talk to wants to see it change; it'll change. I know people who are smart enough to be running theatre companies at 25, and I think they will.

[36:14] Tori Bullard: I couldn't agree more.

[36:15] Ziggy Resnick: I think young people are really where it's gonna end up shifting and where we end up going with it will be what theatre in Australia ends up being.

[36:27] Tori Bullard: And having that setting the bar for yourself is just so important.

[36:31] Ziggy Resnick: Set the bar for what you want to see and don't settle for less than that. And if you're ever in a position where you get to help make anything change or help push boundaries, or you know, say to your agent, "Hey, actually I really like to be put forward for this role," even though you might not be typically boxed into that, that's where it starts, and that's how we can find really interesting and good plays, musicals, theatre. That's where it all starts.

[37:00] Tori Bullard: Well, this has been an absolute pleasure chatting to you about not only "The Eisteddfod," but just about theatre in general. And I guess before we leave today, we're gonna do a little bit of a bedtime story.

[37:13] Ziggy Resnick: So those two beautiful bedtime stories you have. Hit us with them. What are they?

[37:17] Ziggy Resnick: Okay. So one's a dream I had. One's a dream and one's something that actually happened. So what actually happened was the wardrobe. I'll tell you, do you want me to tell you both? Or do you want to bring it up?

[37:27] Tori Bullard: Oh, really?

[37:27] Ziggy Resnick: Okay. So the dream I had was literally the other day. I've never had a dream about forgetting lines. Everybody's always like, "Uh, I have these stress dreams about forgetting lines," or I can't relate. And then the other day, I did, but it was so funny because the dream was that I was on the bus with Fraser, and we were on our way to the first night of the show, and I was like, "I don't know, I don't know the lines." And Fraser was like, "I do," and I was like, "I don't know the lines." I didn't have my script, so I was like, "Can I have your script?" And he was like, "Yeah," Fraser hands me his script, and this is why this story is so interesting to me. Fraser hands me his text, and it says the characters are life and death.

[38:15] Tori Bullard: Wow.

[38:15] Ziggy Resnick: And I said, "Who do I play?" And Fraser was like, "I'm life, you're death," and I was like, "Oh, okay." I was like, "I don't know these lines," and I woke up and I was so shaken. It took me like... I'm still thinking about life and death. I was like, "I didn't do a play where the characters are life and death." So that really shook me up.

[38:43] Tori Bullard: Those are the worst though, the dreams, because like I've had the same reoccurring nightmare that I'm playing Fiona in "Shrek the Musical," and I genuinely do not know any of the words for Fiona in "Shrek the Musical," and I just get pushed down to stage, and I'm like, "Huh."

[39:02] Ziggy Resnick: So I feel like I relate to you.

[39:04] Tori Bullard: It's terrifying.

[39:05] Ziggy Resnick: And then you wake up and you're like in hot sweats, and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I just... I really hope that this is not like my reality."

[39:14] Tori Bullard: I like thought I was gonna be sick. I woke up and I was like, "Oh my god." And then you're like, "I'm safe. I'm safe."

[39:20] Ziggy Resnick: It was really bad. I've been having mental dreams. I'll tell you the wardrobe malfunction story.

[39:25] Tori Bullard: Yes, give us a...

[39:26] Ziggy Resnick: It's my second year of NIDA, and we were doing "Twelfth Night" by Shakespeare, but directed by Jim Sharman. Jim Sharman is the director of "Rocky Horror Show" movie, and he actually went to NIDA in its golden age. And every so often he'll come back and direct. So he came back and like he is amazing. He said to Outcast, "I picked you because you are the people that would come out at the end of a show and say, 'Was I good in act two? Will you buy me a drink?'" Basically saying I picked the 12 most insecure of your year and put you all in a show. And we were like, "Thank you." I think.

[40:16] Ziggy Resnick: Anyway, he's so cool. Anyway, so I was really... I was genuinely very insecure. I don't know if institutions are for me, but I was very worried I was playing Mariah, but I also about three quarters, if not like more than that, through the play, I played Officer Number Two. And Officer Number Two is like this character that comes in and basically takes Antonio off. So Officer One and Two, and my darling friend Tom Lovelock. It sort of became this very comedic moment. "Twelfth Night" is a comedy, but taking Antonio off became very fun for us, even though it was like Antonio's most serious speech was like this comic relief thing of like trying to get him off and the two of us with the rope and anyway.

[41:07] Tori Bullard: Sounds hilarious.

[41:07] Ziggy Resnick: So we're very, very cheeky in this moment. Tom and I. Anyway, we were also wearing um fezzes, so those hats.

[41:16] Tori Bullard: Oh.

[41:16] Ziggy Resnick: As the officers. Right. We would put on a fez and speed dealers. Dunno why. Excellent. So it's me in a fez and speed dealers. I would like tuck my hair under it and then like stomp on stage. And one of the days we ran on stage and um somebody knocked the fez off my head, and I'm like, "Oh no, you know, oh no, the fez is gone," and I'm looking for the fez and I'm looking for the fez, and I'm trying to run up these stairs. And Tom from behind me is this like agile puppy of a human. Like he is a force on stage, like could just like jump from insane. Ran behind me, like jumped past me, put the fez on my head, and it like sort of covered my head, and then the speed dealers were here, and it looked just like very absurd because he squished the fez, put the speed dealers, and so I looked like... I looked ridiculous.

[41:58] Tori Bullard: Oh no.

[41:58] Ziggy Resnick: So I try to not fix it because it's already on my head, and I go on stage and continue the scene, but the whole cast, and they were all corpsing because I looked so ridiculous in the fez and the glasses, so everybody was laughing and trying not to laugh. And I thought that that was so funny that I started to laugh, and then everybody was laughing. The scene had to stop because everybody was laughing so much, and the audience was like on... like, but in my head, because I'd started all of this, and I'm in second year of an institution that you know it's quite difficult. I thought I've ruined my whole career because I couldn't stop. I could not stop laughing, and it felt like it went on for like five minutes of everybody just like cacking it, and it's gone down in history.

The other day I met somebody and she was like, "Oh, I know you because I saw you in 'Twelfth Night.'" This is 2019, and I was like, "Oh," and she was like, "And I went to the show where you all corpsed," and I was like, "I'll never live that down, will I?" And it was awesome. It's actually in... when it happened, I cried and cried and cried, but now I'm like, "Might be my best work."

[43:43] Tori Bullard: The audience would have loved it.

[43:45] Ziggy Resnick: It's why we love live theatre. I feel like that happened. I feel like every time somebody says, "Give us a bedtime story," I'm like, "And that is live theatre, and that is why we love it."

[43:55] Tori Bullard: Well, that was amazing. Thank you so much for that bedtime story. We absolutely adored it. And having you on. Um, I guess for anyone that's listening, have you got... this is your chance to kind of plug and promote "The Eisteddfod." Can you tell us a little bit more about where to find you and the show and where to buy tickets?

[44:14] Ziggy Resnick: So "The Eisteddfod" is on the Old Fitz website. So really you can just find it there. Or also follow @theeisteddfod. It's actually spelt E-I-S-T-E-D-D-F-O-D. So there is no R in Eisteddfod.

[44:29] Tori Bullard: Got it.

[44:32] Ziggy Resnick: Um, everyone's like, "Yeah, I've done Dance Eisteddfod since I was five. I know how it's got." But no, it tripped me up. My... no R in Eisteddfod. And um, so we will be, you know, posting little updates on there. Uh, tickets are also twenty... you get 20% off the mainstage show if you buy it with a late night show.

[44:56] Tori Bullard: Amazing.

[44:56] Ziggy Resnick: Um, so you can see some really cool shows. The show that we're on with is "Older" and "Tristan," which is a Sport for Jove show.

[45:05] Tori Bullard: Great.

[45:05] Ziggy Resnick: Um, and we start after that, so at 9:15. And um, yes, you can buy tickets on the Old Fitz website. You can find me on Instagram at @ziggyresnick, and I'll also be running my mouth about it. I think that's all, isn't it?

[45:21] Tori Bullard: Thank you so much, you two. This was really fun. I'm sorry it went for so long, but thank you so much for having me.

[45:26] Eliza Gunther: No, thank you so much for being here. You guys make sure that you book tickets to go see "The Eisteddfod," and also just um, I was gonna say promote, support independent theatre in Australia in general. Just do it.

[45:40] Tori Bullard: We will link everything in the episode description down below as well as on our Instagram, but you guys until next time stay happy, healthy, and safe, and we'll see you then. Bye!