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[0:07] Eli Tokash: Hello everyone and welcome to episode 50 of Take A Bow podcast.

[0:13] Eli Tokash: I'm your host, Eli Tokash, and I am so excited to be here with you all today.

[0:18] Eli Tokash: Yes, for those of you Fighting Neverland fans who could recognize that.

[0:23] Eli Tokash: That was believe.

[0:24] Eli Tokash: I don't know.

[0:25] Eli Tokash: I wanted a little special intro here for our 50th episode.

[0:28] Eli Tokash: Oh my god, this is too much.

[0:30] Eli Tokash: I never thought this day would come.

[0:31] Eli Tokash: But here we are.

[0:32] Eli Tokash: Here we are.

[0:33] Eli Tokash: We're here.

[0:33] Eli Tokash: I'm recording on my birthday, which is very exciting.

[0:36] Eli Tokash: Thank you all for the birthday love to those of you who have reached out.

[0:40] Eli Tokash: And uh I'm so thankful to be spending my birthday this way because I wouldn't want it any other way.

[0:45] Eli Tokash: But obviously, today, Thursday is a new day, and we have a big 50th episode and one year celebration.

[0:54] Eli Tokash: And today we are doing it with none other than Charlie Alterman, who is the current music consultant for Zoe's Extraordinary Playlist.

[1:04] Eli Tokash: It's one of my favorite shows on TV right now.

[1:07] Eli Tokash: I don't watch a lot of TV shows, but I watch that one, so that's why it's one of my faves.

[1:12] Eli Tokash: And um, yeah, and he was my musical director in Pippin.

[1:16] Eli Tokash: He was also doing Next to Normal, he did Godspell, Pippin, um, he did Martin Short's show when it was on Broadway.

[1:23] Eli Tokash: All of these amazing things that we talk about.

[1:25] Eli Tokash: Um, and it's all very fascinating, and it's a brand new side of the industry that we'd never talked about before, so I'm excited for you all to hear about it.

[1:33] Eli Tokash: But before we turn it over to the interview, let's talk about what's going on.

[1:37] Eli Tokash: So I was granted with the greatest birthday present in saying that Broadway is reopening at 100% capacity on September 14th.

[1:48] Eli Tokash: So that is very exciting news because I know we've talked a lot about guidelines and restrictions and what it would look like for when it does reopen.

[1:55] Eli Tokash: Uh, but it turns out we're not gonna have to worry about that because we're probably all gonna have to wear masks, but doesn't seem like anything too crazy is gonna have to happen, and New York will already be open for a couple months by then, so I think it's all gonna be uh time will tell, you know.

[2:12] Eli Tokash: And of course, we've found out some like extremely exciting news surrounding the industry as well.

[2:19] Eli Tokash: It was announced that Wicked, they were the first tour to announce that they were going to return to action in August, starting in Dallas.

[2:28] Eli Tokash: So that was like a huge, huge thing, uh, huge announcement of hope for our industries because everyone kind of thought that Broadway is gonna be open first because you know, with tours, you have to travel from state to state, and you know, you gotta go in and out, and there were all these uh crazy restrictions as far as traveling and everything like that.

[2:49] Eli Tokash: But hearing that that was in August, we were everyone was like, well, what about Broadway and everything like that?

[2:54] Eli Tokash: So of course they made the announcement today, and I could not be more excited.

[2:58] Eli Tokash: Um, although they did say like theaters will be open May 19th, and they're technically allowed to go back and all of that.

[3:06] Eli Tokash: So it's just gonna be it's confusing still at this point, and everything seems to still be up in the air, but it seems like by September 14th, Broadway will be up and running again.

[3:16] Eli Tokash: But who knows, maybe shows will be back before then, and uh the rest of them will follow at that date.

[3:23] Eli Tokash: So I'm very excited, and I'm gonna keep you all updated as soon as I hear and as soon as it becomes public, I guess.

[3:29] Eli Tokash: And I'm I'm so excited.

[3:30] Eli Tokash: Oh my goodness, 50 episodes.

[3:32] Eli Tokash: I'm still in awe.

[3:34] Eli Tokash: There really it wasn't much to talk about surrounding the Broadway news except for those incredible accomplishments.

[3:39] Eli Tokash: But I also wanted to mention that today, Thursday, May 6th, they're premiering Jeremy Jordan's uh 54 Below concert.

[3:50] Eli Tokash: And he did this during quarantine and everything like that.

[3:53] Eli Tokash: And he made his own solo concert about um his journey and new life as a father.

[4:01] Eli Tokash: And it's called Carry On.

[4:03] Eli Tokash: It's streaming premiere is on May 6th, but it's gonna be on demand from May 7th to the 27th.

[4:10] Eli Tokash: So you have about 20 days, 21 days to be exact, so three weeks to catch that.

[4:16] Eli Tokash: And if you're interested in watching that, it's $35 on the 54 Below website, or you can get a $50 VIP ticket, and you can be included in a live post-show session with Jeremy Jordan and his producer of Benjamin Rahala.

[4:33] Eli Tokash: And I apologize if I s pronounced that wrong, which I probably did because I'm butcher names all the time.

[4:39] Eli Tokash: But um it's a very exciting, it's a very exciting thing.

[4:42] Eli Tokash: I I watched the trailer of it today.

[4:44] Eli Tokash: Oh my god, it looks amazing.

[4:46] Eli Tokash: It's everything you want it to be, not only from Jeremy Jordan himself, but also just like from any actor, because similar to Adam Jacobs, you know, he truly like opens up his side of the curtain and what it's like for him to be in the industry and how he's adjusted throughout all these amazing things that he's done.

[5:05] Eli Tokash: So, as I mentioned, this is our one-year anniversary episode, and I couldn't be more excited.

[5:11] Eli Tokash: We have an exciting guest today, and we have two of maybe the most exciting guests coming to Take A Bow in the following two weeks.

[5:21] Eli Tokash: But for today, we're gonna turn it over to Charlie Alterman, and as I mentioned, he is a conductor, a musical director, a keyboardist, all of the things that he does, he's really like the heartbeat of a musical on Broadway.

[5:35] Eli Tokash: So, but before we turn it over to the interview, let's turn it over to the drama dictionary because we're gonna need it for the episode.

[5:42] Eli Tokash: This week's drama dictionary is going to be conductor versus musical director.

[5:47] Eli Tokash: So we talk a lot about um conductor versus musical director.

[5:52] Eli Tokash: Um in the episode, we use that those two terms often.

[5:55] Eli Tokash: I didn't even know kind of what the difference were, and I had to do some research before um talking to Charlie.

[6:03] Eli Tokash: So a musical director is someone who works closely with uh members of the show, so cast members, uh the creative teams, and they oversee like the conductor.

[6:14] Eli Tokash: So like they're a like they're just one step higher than the conductor, right?

[6:18] Eli Tokash: And they helped uh they help compose and they help uh the arrangements and all of everything.

[6:24] Eli Tokash: Um and they're the ones that are allowed to give the cast members the notes, and they're in charge of hiring the orchestra and rehearsing them and all of those things, where the conductor is just the person who will conduct an orchestra and kind of lead them in the performance.

[6:41] Eli Tokash: So basically, the conductor is in the performance, the musical director is usually uh, you know, a part of the creative team who's kind of like not there every day, but uh will come in at when needed and everything like that.

[6:57] Eli Tokash: So it's just a step higher.

[6:58] Eli Tokash: But oftentimes they they give the conductor and the musical director the same job and the same uh not the same title, but they'll they'll combine the two.

[7:09] Eli Tokash: Obviously, like it's a different title and their pay grade is different and everything like that.

[7:13] Eli Tokash: But they combine the two and just to have that on site because you know it's very helpful to have an extra set of ears and a sec extra set of eyes and everything like that on site the entire time.

[7:26] Eli Tokash: So when in giving the in combining the roles, which is a lot of what Charlie's career has been, combining the roles of both a musical director and a conductor, he is able to do a lot more, I guess, than just a regular conductor would do.

[7:40] Eli Tokash: With that said, and with that knowledge, let's turn it over to Charlie Alterman, who's gonna give us some incredible insight of what it's like to be a conductor.

[7:48] Eli Tokash: Did you know that there's auditions?

[7:50] Charlie Alterman: Yeah.

[7:50] Eli Tokash: I didn't I didn't either.

[7:52] Eli Tokash: So let's just turn it over to him and he's gonna tell us all about it.

[7:55] Eli Tokash: Charlie Alterman, curtain up.

[8:17] Eli Tokash: So this week, we have a guest who is willing to give his insight in a brand new facet of the industry.

[8:25] Eli Tokash: He's been a part of Broadway shows that have won or have been nominated for Best Score, Best Orchestrations, Best New Revival, Best New Musical.

[8:33] Eli Tokash: I mean, the list goes on and on.

[8:35] Eli Tokash: And those achievements would not have been possible without the help of our guest this week.

[8:39] Eli Tokash: So, everyone, welcome to Take A Bow, Charlie Alterman.

[8:44] Charlie Alterman: Woo!

[8:44] Eli Tokash: I'm sure for myself.

[8:45] Charlie Alterman: It's the saddest thing, but it's this weird audienceless, you know, yes universe that we have now created.

[8:53] Eli Tokash: Oh my god, I'm so excited that you're here with us this week.

[8:56] Eli Tokash: I like to start off all of the episodes with what kind of got you into acting.

[9:02] Eli Tokash: But this week we're gonna do what kind of got you into musical theater and like music in general.

[9:08] Charlie Alterman: Ooh.

[9:08] Charlie Alterman: It's a kind of a really random and really specific story, but I always loved music and I always loved theater.

[9:16] Charlie Alterman: Uh-huh.

[9:17] Charlie Alterman: And so I think I loved musical theater because it brought all of the both of those worlds together, but it wasn't a specific thing, like, oh, I gotta do musical theater.

[9:24] Charlie Alterman: I just, as a kid, I played piano and I played a couple other instruments, and I I loved making music.

[9:30] Charlie Alterman: Music was a huge part of my life.

[9:32] Charlie Alterman: I also really thought I wanted to be an actor.

[9:34] Charlie Alterman: Like in a way, I was kind of like, this music stuff is great, but really where it's at is acting.

[9:38] Charlie Alterman: I want to be, I was convinced that I wanted to be an actor.

[9:41] Charlie Alterman: And I could sing, so when I would so I would do musicals, but I would also do straight plays and I would do all kinds of stuff like that.

[9:46] Charlie Alterman: And um, but in my mind, I didn't have a specific goal of doing music theater.

[9:51] Charlie Alterman: I either wanted to be an actor in all kinds of mediums, or I wanted to like tour with a rock band.

[9:57] Charlie Alterman: You know, I think my like my early dream was to like go on the road with Shaka Khan and sing back up play key play keyboards, which probably would have never happened, but you never know.

[10:08] Charlie Alterman: Um and so I kind of fell into music directing.

[10:12] Charlie Alterman: Uh when I was in high school, I was so excited because you know, they did better shows than the junior high, and it was I got there my freshman year, and it was freshman year fall, and the first show up was Little Shop of Horrors, and I went in and I auditioned, and they pulled me aside probably before callbacks or at some point in the casting, and they said, Listen, here's the deal.

[10:30] Charlie Alterman: Everybody loves you.

[10:33] Charlie Alterman: Uh, but it's a really small cast.

[10:35] Charlie Alterman: We're not looking at you for any of the leads because you're a freshman.

[10:38] Charlie Alterman: And, you know, we're gonna create this little ensemble, but you really would be probably bored out of your mind.

[10:43] Charlie Alterman: They're they're not gonna have much to do.

[10:45] Charlie Alterman: We know that you play piano.

[10:46] Charlie Alterman: Would you want to maybe assist the music director?

[10:49] Charlie Alterman: And I was initially like, I don't know.

[10:51] Charlie Alterman: I wanted to be in it, and like poor me, let me think about this.

[10:55] Charlie Alterman: And then I thought, well, it might be more interesting, and sure.

[10:58] Charlie Alterman: And I ended up having a blast.

[11:00] Charlie Alterman: The music director uh was just she was really cool, really talented, really smart, created a great vibe in the room.

[11:07] Charlie Alterman: I clicked really well with her.

[11:09] Charlie Alterman: I loved working with her.

[11:10] Charlie Alterman: That sort of inspired me.

[11:11] Charlie Alterman: And it wasn't like instantly like this is what I'm gonna do with my life, but it was like, all right, we could diversify, like I like this, you know.

[11:18] Charlie Alterman: And so kind of for the rest of high school and college, I would like flip back and forth between acting in a show and music directing a show and acting a show and music directing a show.

[11:25] Charlie Alterman: And by the time I got to college, I was finding some summer stock work, uh like on the summer breaks as a music director or as a pianist or whatever.

[11:35] Charlie Alterman: So what by the time I graduated, I still loved acting, but I was kind of thinking, all right, it's a it's it's a narrower field, there's fewer people competing for the jobs, you've got some credits already.

[11:44] Charlie Alterman: Like, let's start here and down the line, whatever anything's possible.

[11:48] Charlie Alterman: But then I sort of started falling into work and a lot of stuff happened, and you know, and now the idea of trying to pursue acting feels totally foreign to me because it's been a couple of years.

[11:59] Charlie Alterman: But uh But I think in a weird way, that connection to like what the actor experience is has always been my personal, like I don't want to say unique because actually a lot of music directors come from this background, but I think a lot of the really great music directors had an acting background, so you understand what the experience is of the actor and how to support them from the pit and how to play a scene with them, and you know what they're concerned about, so you know what you can speak their language when you coach them and all that kind of stuff.

[12:27] Charlie Alterman: So I think in a weird way it's I i it's in this very bizarre route to get here, but it's sort of it's all sort of served me well.

[12:34] Eli Tokash: Yeah, totally.

[12:35] Charlie Alterman: Because I think musically I might have some gaps in my theory or whatnot from having not gone to you know a big music conservatory.

[12:43] Charlie Alterman: But to do theater and sort of understand because so much of you music directing is figuring out how to integrate you know eight different worlds.

[12:51] Charlie Alterman: Yeah.

[12:51] Charlie Alterman: A favorite quote that I wish I could take credit for but so um a friend of mine called it being like being a music director for the for a like a Broadway musical is basically being an English to English translator who can speak to every department in terms that they understand and then synthesize it together.

[13:07] Charlie Alterman: So you know you can talk to a choreographer a hundred percent and counts in their language and get it you can speak to a director totally in the artistic vision and the emotion of it.

[13:07] Charlie Alterman: You can speak to an actor in ways that are both technical in terms of what they have to do technically with their voice, but also in terms of the emotion and the pacing and the storytelling and then you can translate that to an orchestrator and a music copyist.

[13:28] Charlie Alterman: So it's like no no no that needs to be a sixteenth note pick up to a what you know it's like every last little thing.

[13:33] Eli Tokash: Oh my God.

[13:33] Charlie Alterman: Yeah.

[13:34] Charlie Alterman: And for me the joy with musicians is that that's you know the great musicians and I've been lucky enough to work with a lot of really great musicians sort of speak both languages.

[13:44] Charlie Alterman: Yeah.

[13:44] Charlie Alterman: Cause on the page you need it technical.

[13:46] Charlie Alterman: It's like no there's a crescendo there and so on and so forth.

[13:50] Charlie Alterman: But also the great musicians understand the artistry of well why is there a crescendo and it's like oh here's what's happening on stage and here's the emotion.

[13:56] Eli Tokash: It's like oh god you know right right right well I wonder, so like just the way that you're talking about it now, and just being how how musically inclined you are, even though there may be gaps or whatever it is.

[14:09] Eli Tokash: But like when you were doing double duty as a music director and an actor, do you feel like them just knowing the music and knowing like all the technicalities of like what's written on the piece of paper helped you as a performer?

[14:24] Charlie Alterman: You know, they probably did.

[14:26] Charlie Alterman: Certainly, music directors loved me because I th I didn't need a lot of help from them.

[14:30] Charlie Alterman: You know, but it's all interesting to me because it's all sort of writing down music. I mean, this is a huge tangent, but writing down music is sort of an art that I think when you get a piece of music as an actor or as a musician or as anything, you take it as gospel, and of course, it's open to interpretation, but it's like, well, this is what they wrote and this is what they meant. And the thing that's been eye-opening for me, working with all kinds of composers on new musicals and whatnot, is I'll sit and they'll play it, and whether they hand me the music or I'm how or I've done a lot of things where I'm transcribing off of a demo and figuring it out, and oh my god. You kind of listen to it, and in your soul, you know what it is, but when you have to write it down, it becomes these questions of like, okay, they sort of backphrased that line, and that feels like that was part of the writing, or was that an acting choice?

Like, should I put it on the page, should I not? Should I be really specific about that phrasing, or should I write it as eighth notes and know that a good actor will phrase it and not have them be boxed in by the rhythm? So every composer or every transcriber or arranger makes a thousand decisions about that, and it made me realize like going back to, you know, Beethoven, even was writing symphonies down, and you know, we all think of like, oh, but classical was so technical and specific, and to an extent it was, but it's still about the artistry and it's still about the expression, and you listen to like great pianists or great orchestras under a great conductor interpreting those classics, and there's still like it where is the push-pull and where and how am I gonna phrase this line?

And it's still all about the emotion of it, and everyone's trying to make those technical decisions to say, all right, well, how do I write this down? So that was sort of an epiphany too. I just took us on a huge tangent.

[16:06] Eli Tokash: No, it's great.

[16:09] Charlie Alterman: But so that I it's definitely helped me and it's definitely informed a lot. I don't know, I geek out over this stuff because I think the more I've worked in it, and the more I kind of love it. I think the thing that appeals to me so much about music is that it's kind of the intersection of art and science.

[16:25] Eli Tokash: Okay, yeah.

[16:26] Charlie Alterman: Because there's science behind it, there are absolutes, you know, rhythms are mathematical and they either work or they don't, you know what I mean? Like if you're in a meter, there's so many beats in a bar, and then if you need that extra beat, you're not in that meter anymore, so you gotta figure it out. So, all of that stuff, you know, their pitch is you know, are you on the pitch? Are you not on the pitch? Like, there are definitely is that in the scale, is that in the chord or not, or if it's out, is that intentional, or is that a mistake? You know, but then there's also interpretation, like that's a weird note, but maybe it's really cool. And then how do you interpret that science to make it artistic and to make it speak to an audience and to make it resonate emotionally and all that?

So absolutely, so that makes me happy. But the merging of worlds too, even acting and music has always been interesting to me. And like a little side note, I think, in a weird way, my acting background, even though I never really pursued it, never did anything with it, helped me get my feet in the door when I started music directing.

[17:23] Eli Tokash: Oh my gosh.

[17:23] Charlie Alterman: So, my first the first ever job that I had in New York after I graduated from college, there was this tiny little off-Broadway musical review that was like all songs about travel. It was super random. Really, really incredible cast, though. And I came in as their rehearsal pianist because their original music director was like, I'm not dealing with any rehearsals, and then long story short, when he left eventually he left the show and I ended up taking over the show. But it was a pianist bass player on stage for actors, but the pianist also like did voiceovers and sang one of the songs and all that kind of stuff. So I think that yeah. So the fact that I could sing and could be funny and was comfortable with all of that, I think helped me, you know, get my foot in the door there. I would have landed it, wouldn't have landed it without that.

[18:08] Eli Tokash: Right.

[18:08] Charlie Alterman: And then my first Broadway show was Martin Short Fame Becomes Me, which is a whole crazy story. So Mark Shaman and Scott Whitman wrote the score. Marc Shaiman was also in the show and was mostly playing himself and was at the I mean, quite literally. I don't mean like you know what I mean. I don't mean like he was typecast. I mean like quite literally, and Marc Shaiman on the piano, ladies and gentlemen, you know.

[18:32] Eli Tokash: Oh wow.

[18:33] Charlie Alterman: And he was like at a piano on stage. Originally the whole band was gonna be on stage, and then there just wasn't room, but he was still on stage. So they had set up this whole elaborate thing where there was a camera on him at the piano, and everyone in the pit would have a monitor so that he could conduct the show. And then they realized by the time we left New York that it was there were certain things that he wouldn't be able to conduct because he was making a costume change, or it was like playoff music for a scene that he was in, because in addition to being the on-stage music director, composer Marc Shaiman, who wrote the show as a character in the show. He also had little bit parts of other things where he was not playing himself.

[19:11] Eli Tokash: Okay.

[19:12] Charlie Alterman: So sometimes he had a costume change, or he had to make an entrance, and there was you know, so then there was gonna be a camera on me, a camera on him, and I would conduct some of it, he would conduct some of it. I was gonna have a foot switch that like toggled the video between the two things so the band knew what to watch. And it was all it was my first show. I was so excited about all of it, but in retrospect, like that was all completely crazy. And it was gonna be so dicey and so confusing. And it was this wild moment where we were out of, we're in tech in San Francisco, and we're like two, three days away from the first orchestra rehearsal, and it was you know, it's a new musical, it's a thousand moving parts, tech is tax, so it's like you know, everyone's doing the most, and um everyone's just literally, and everyone's just like I've got 8,000 things in my brain, I don't have time, and I and Mark is also acting in the show and composing the show.

So he had 800 things in his brain at all moments, and I was like, I don't want to bother him, but also we need to sit down and figure out who's conducting what. Like we never really mapped it out. Some things were obvious, but some things were like, is this you? Is this me? I don't know.

[20:15] Eli Tokash: Right.

[20:15] Charlie Alterman: So I remember we were breaking for dinner, and Mark was the theater had sort of emptied out, and Mark was just sitting on his own on the stairs with his computer, and I was like, All right, now's that now's the moment. So I went over to him and I was like, Mark, I'm I know you're super busy, but can we just take five minutes and like figure out who's conducting what? And he was he goes, I I it's just all you. I can't I there's too much on my plate.

[20:15] Eli Tokash: No way.

[20:15] Charlie Alterman: And I was like, wait, what? He was like, You heard me right, renegotiate your contract, you're conducting the show now.

[20:41] Eli Tokash: Oh my god.

[20:43] Charlie Alterman: Did this just happen? That whole show was like story after story of crazy out of a movie, like it never happens this way. What is my life? Pinch me pinch me moments. Um right down to like actually the the fun story too is like when I got cast, because I so I had to go in and audition because he was in the show, so I was he was the I he was conducting the show, but he was in the show.

[21:06] Eli Tokash: Right.

[21:07] Charlie Alterman: So until they bumped me up to conductor, I was hired as the associate conductor, but it was also an unlike an equity understudy. Right. So I went in and auditioned because they were like, we need an understudy for Marc Shaiman.

[21:19] Eli Tokash: Right.

[21:20] Charlie Alterman: Um So you were gonna do uh No pressure's junior high moments where you were doing double duty.

[21:27] Eli Tokash: Exactly.

[21:28] Charlie Alterman: So I thought, okay, I can do this. And I have never wanted a job more. I mean, it Mark, it's so funny. I'm not a star-struck person. I've worked with a lot of stars over the years, and I'm not really phased by celebrity. I'm kind of like, you're a human being, I'm a human being, we're gonna get along, or we're not. I have to treat you like a normal person. I can't be like, oh my god, you're so and so. But I think we all have that short list of people that were just like, oh my goodness, to be in a room with this person and work with them, they're genius, you know. And we put them, and it's not a big list, it's probably five, ten people for most people, you know.

[22:00] Eli Tokash: Uh-huh.

[22:00] Charlie Alterman: And for me, Marc Shaiman and Martin Short were both on that list.

[22:03] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[22:04] Charlie Alterman: So it was like the thought of I to be I knew that the show was I had seen the show announced. There was, you know, press releases that it was coming. The thought never occurred to me that I'd be able to work on it. But I remember calling all my friends and saying, guys, we gotta get tickets early, we gotta go see this, we gotta see it multiple times. It's gonna be the best thing ever. And when the call came into audition for it, I was like, What is my life? Yes, I have I have to do I have to book this. So I put so much pressure on myself. And I think the audition by all counts went well, but in my fantasy dream world of of my life, it was gonna be that thing where everyone's rolling in the aisles and like immediately like where have you been all my life? And you just leave the room knowing you booked it, you know, and like that didn't happen.

[22:44] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[22:45] Charlie Alterman: So it sent me into such a state, I was so depressed that night, and I was like, Oh, I guess I didn't get it. I guess I didn't get it. I have to release this. And I sort of like said my little like goodbye to it, and you know, and the next day I was playing rehearsals for the wedding singer, and I'm in a I'm in I remember all these details. I don't really like because it was so monumental. I'm in this rehearsal studio, and it's before like there's cell phones, but there isn't, there aren't smartphones. There's no texting, there's nothing that yet. So and my phone is like burning, it's like blowing up. Like I'm getting like call missed call after missed call after missed call from some two one two number.

And I'm like, I don't could this be Telsey casting? I don't know. So we get to a break, and I'm like, hold on, I gotta check my phone. And it's the casting director, and I call her, and she's like, Everybody loved you. Um and Scott Whitman, who also directed the show, and and Marty were at the audition, but Marc Shaiman wasn't. So there she was like, Everybody loves you, but like Mark would love to meet you. Could you go down to his loft tonight at like 6 p.m.? Uh Scott will be there. And I'm like, sure. Which first of all, you're like, they're inviting me to Marc Shaiman and Scott's loft? Like, what's going on?

[23:56] Eli Tokash: Um, like, what is my life?

[23:59] Charlie Alterman: And then uh they're like, there's another, um, you know, uh there might I I think someone else is gonna be there who's being seen for one of the other understudies. They might want you to play for her, they might win you. It was all very vague in a way that was like super stressful. I'm like, do I need to prepare the stuff I did for my original audition? She's like, No, I think he just wants to meet you. I mean, have it at the ready in case he might want to hear you play. It's it was so vague, so which I'm like, I don't know, I want to nail this. I want to be perfect, I want to be prepared.

[24:25] Eli Tokash: Right.

[24:26] Charlie Alterman: But I went down there and and Jilla Bromovitz was there who ended up covering two of the female tracks in the show, and uh went on to do a ton of Broadway shows. And she's in the middle, so so you know, it's like the assistant greets me off the elevator and is like, come back this way. They're in the recording studio. I'm like, what is my life? And um I get back there and she's singing something by and he Mark is at the piano and she's sitting next to him singing a song.

[24:50] Eli Tokash: Oh casual.

[24:50] Charlie Alterman: And uh they wrap up and I'm just lurking at the corner, kind of waiting my turn. And Mark is like, um, hey, do you have it? There's we're thinking about putting a number in the show that would be like a wicked spoof with like an alphabet moment. Do you have anything that's like really high Belty? And she's like, Oh, I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think. He's like, Do you mind if I page through your book? So he's paging through, and I'm in total, like I'm such a I can't help myself. Like, I'm such a like the constant vocal coach that I see him pass by Life of the Party from Wild Party. I was like, Oh my god, do that. And I'm like, Why am I speaking? But I was like, You should do that. It's that's high Belty that would totally show him what he needs to hear.

Right. And Mark looks up, Mark looks up at me and he's like, Do you know this song? And I was like, kind of. I've played it just in coachings for people. He's like, Great, I don't want to site read. Can you play for her? So I play for her, but in my mind, it's still like her audition, and I'm like, I'm up next, you know.

[25:39] Eli Tokash: Right.

[25:40] Charlie Alterman: And uh little did I know. I think that kind of was my audition. That was like his chance to hear me play. So um she finishes that, they're like, Can you do a couple impressions? Blah blah blah. And she's like, Is there anything else I can do? And Mark and Scott are sitting on the couch, and they're like, No, I think, and they kind of check each other out. They're like, No, uh, you know, like to make each other to make sure they're on the same page. They're nodding, they're like, Um, no, I think uh Jill, we'd love to have you on the show. Like, told her on the spot.

[26:04] Eli Tokash: No way.

[26:05] Charlie Alterman: That's it. And I'm sitting there like beaming and freaking out for her, and then they they they like nod at each other again and turn to me. They're like, and you too, for that matter.

[26:14] Eli Tokash: No way.

[26:14] Charlie Alterman: What? Like, oh my god. Who finds out on the spot from the composers and director of the show? I was like, it never happens this way.

[26:23] Eli Tokash: Yeah, never.

[26:24] Charlie Alterman: I was like, what is my life? And I remembered so vividly, Jill and I both played it super cool and super pro. Yeah, like, you know, and they're like, they're like, oh, this is uh both of your Broadway debuts, we're so excited, and we're like, yeah, it's gonna be awesome. Oh, thank you so much. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And we wrote we left together, and the second the elevator doors closed, we're like, Ah my wrap each other.

[26:44] Eli Tokash: Absolutely.

[26:46] Charlie Alterman: Oh my god. So amazing. Wow, what a dream come true. And then so, like, wait, so then that's obviously before this whole this whole, you know, passing the baton on for the whole music director, cracked.

[27:00] Eli Tokash: A hundred percent.

[27:00] Charlie Alterman: So the crazy thing is I was hired as Mark's understudy.

[27:06] Eli Tokash: Right.

[27:06] Charlie Alterman: I then got bumped up to music director. I then threw a long crazy story, ended up also covering Brooks Ashmanskus, who was in the show.

[27:13] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[27:14] Charlie Alterman: Like a second cover, went on a couple times for him.

[27:17] Eli Tokash: Stop it.

[27:17] Charlie Alterman: So I had all these crazy, like, what is my life pinch me like promotions for lack of a better word?

[27:23] Eli Tokash: Right.

[27:23] Charlie Alterman: But by the time the show closed, Mark had never missed a show. So the one thing I was originally hired to do, which was to stand by for him, like never did.

[27:32] Eli Tokash: Never happened.

[27:32] Charlie Alterman: Wow. That's but who cares? Because I ended up music directing the show. I ended up.

[27:35] Eli Tokash: Right.

[27:37] Charlie Alterman: So what does an audition look like for like a musical director? Like, what was that?

[27:41] Charlie Alterman: It really depends on the piece. That specific thing, you had to sing a song at the piano and accompany yourself, and they wanted it to be a comedy song. But that was a very specific unique thing to that. Normally, as a music director, they would it's it would either just be an interview or maybe an interview, and they'd have you play some stuff from the show to hear what your piano playing is like.

[28:00] Eli Tokash: Gotcha.

[28:01] Charlie Alterman: But yeah, in that case, and they sort of didn't, it was like the the foot to fit the golden slipper, because it was such a specific, unique thing. So they were seeing music directors who were maybe funny, they were saying at seeing actors who could play piano, they were like, We don't know how to like this is such a specific world, you know, right. And uh, you know, they were literally like Telsey was like calling their audition pianists like, Are you funny? Can you sing? Do you want to? I mean, it was hysterical. They were literally just like casting a net all over town to try and figure out who how to find this person, right? And hysterically, I went in and sang the song that I used to sing in that off Broadway show that I was that was my audition piece.

I was like, listen, I'm comfortable singing behind the piano, I'm used to singing it behind the piano, I know how to land the jokes in it. And it was a very old school song, like it wasn't something that I would really think to use for anything else, but it was like almost vaudevillian, like that sort of like very old school humor, which I was like, I I know Marty's style, I know Mark's style, that's the that's the world that this show is gonna live in. This sort of like funny, campy, old school, shticky stuff, which I live for.

[29:03] Charlie Alterman: I mean, that show was a dream, because again, just going back to like the fact that I'm such a fan of their work, I was like, if I hadn't worked on it, I probably would have become one of those crazies that like went and saw the show five times. So just the fact that I was conducting it, but then also sitting there seeing literally every performance of it. I mean, it was a Jimmy Click interview, and I was like, I saw every Jiminy Click interview, you know. So from eight feet away, like what is my life? It was amazing, yeah. And it's so funny because I remember at the time coaching myself, saying, like, you can't be, you know, because again, like I'm I was never weird around stars, but like those particular stars, because I was they were I would I just idolized them.

I was like, I can't be weird around them. I have to, and even though every minute I'm like, holy shit, what's my life? And I remember saying, Okay, Charlie, you're an actor, act like someone who was cool in this situation. Yeah, and what's hysterical is I then read Marty wrote a like a kind of an autobiography years later and talked about exactly that, like him starting out his career and being in the room with all these stars and saying, Marty, you're an actor. Act like you're cool and collected. And I was like, This is crazy that it's like so world colliding. Yeah, totally. And like, what a world that he was that guy, and then became the person in the room that someone else, like me, was like, oh my god, I gotta act cool around Marty, you know.

[30:15] Eli Tokash: Oh my god. I want to stick with this whole like star-struck moment because this is incredible. Cause not only, like, literally, the people that you've worked with, like just from the composer side, like not even actors, we're not even at the actors yet. Yeah, like Marc Shaiman, Tom Kitt, Stephen Shwartz, like what is happening? What is your life?

[30:45] Charlie Alterman: Literally, all of my heroes. Yes. All of the heroes.

[30:49] Eli Tokash: Yeah. What is it like to be like collaborating with them and like writing with them practically?

[30:55] Charlie Alterman: It's amazing and it's inspiring. And I will say, it actually does force you to, as much as I'm like telling the story about like, and it seems like I was distracted every minute, like that was sort of early on, and then you do have to just get over it. Right. Because otherwise, then you're not getting any work done because you're distracted by it. And at some point, it's like to actually do the job well and serve the piece and give them what they need, you have to just be like, whatever, I'm a person, you're a person, here we go. Let's talk, let's get in there and let's work. Uh-huh. And so it was actually that's what forced me to get over it. You know what I mean?

[31:29] Eli Tokash: Totally.

[31:31] Charlie Alterman: And but they really are all heroes of mine. And like I grew up completely nerding out over Stephen Shwartz's music. Right. Like, I listened to it constantly. I played out every cast album of every show that he'd ever written. I music directed Godspell at my high school.

[31:41] Eli Tokash: Oh I saw Pippin at my high school did Pippin in a couple, like when I was in eighth grade.

[31:50] Charlie Alterman: Uh-huh. So I went and saw it just because I wanted to see their show. I didn't know the I I didn't know anything about Pippin at the time. And I remember being so blown away by it. Not the pre- it was probably actually it actually was a pr uh for a high school production, a really good production, but it was more just what is this show and what is this score? And oh my god, I remember I saw it like Friday night, and I was like, Mom, Dad, I have to go back tomorrow. I have to go back tomorrow, I have to see it again. And then I went to get the sheet music, and usually you only get the selections book, but the score had just been published. I was like, it's the whole score. Oh my god. I can play the so I bought the score and I went home and I was playing.

I mean, I played the incidental music. I was just like, I want to dig into all of this music. So working with him was wild. And then even working on Next to Normal, it might have been the first show of Tom's that I saw.

[32:34] Eli Tokash: Really?

[32:34] Charlie Alterman: Because for some reason I couldn't see High Fidelity because I was doing Fame Becomes Me at the time and we were on the same schedule. So even though everyone was talking buzzing about it, I remember being like, ah, I can't get over there. And then I saw next, I didn't do Next to Normal at second stage. I saw it there.

[32:48] Eli Tokash: Okay.

[32:49] Charlie Alterman: And I saw it late in the run when we all kind of thought that was the end of the road for the show, which was so devastating to me because there was no question that it needed work, but it was like the good stuff in it, which was most of it, was so good and at such a level beyond anything I'd seen before that I was like, this can't be the end of this show. And I remember it was like that night seeing it at second stage was one of those pivotal nights in my life where I had just I have not been that knocked out and blown away by something by a piece of writing in a yeah in such a long time. And I remember being almost like jealous of Mary Mitchell Campbell who had music directed it, but not in a like, not even in a like I want that because it but there was nothing to want.

The show was closing in three days, but I was just like, how amazing that she got to work on this incredible material. And the thought never occurred to me that I would get to work on it. And then a few months later, I get this call out of the blue. And I didn't, Tom and I had had a million people in common, but we didn't really know each other. Uh-huh. And I get this call that's like, hey, I got your number from so and so. Um, it's Tom Kitt. We're looking for a music director for Next to Normal down at Arena. And I was like, What I remember holding the phone, like, what is happening?

[33:56] Right.

[33:56] Charlie Alterman: And went in and met with him and played some stuff, and you know, and the show is hard, and it was a lot, like I really had to practice it. And I'm I'm totally the guy that likes sight reads pretty well and kind of coasts on sight reading and charm, and I hate practicing, so I'm usually just like, whatever, I'll figure it out and I'll I'll get better as we go. And the, you know, and this was like, oh no, I gotta sit home and spend hours a day practicing the score because it's so hard. But I've also never been so inspired to go home and practice.

[34:24] Right.

[34:25] Charlie Alterman: You know, normally it's like, no, I can't meet up, I gotta go practice. This was like, oh no, no, no, no, no. Sorry, can't see you for two weeks. I'm going home. I I can't wait to go home and practice this stuff. Like, I just couldn't wait to get my hands on that.

[34:35] Eli Tokash: But that makes it so much better, just like when it like excites you and everything.

[34:39] Charlie Alterman: Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. And it was great to be that invigorated by it and have it be that different than Fame Becomes, because the only the only I mean Fame Becomes Me was the most amazing experience in every way, but the the backside of that is like it was my Broadway debut, uh-huh, and I was like, now what? This was like my dream show that I would work my whole career and finally do something like that. And I was like, it's already happened, and I'm 30 years old. What do I how do I talk about? What do I like? You know, so it was great that Next to Normal was so completely different. Yes, and then Godspell was so completely different, and it had been and then Pippin, they're all so different, and they each had a different hook, if that makes sense.

Like it's not like it was the same thing that excited me on each show, and then you end up comparing them. Like, I couldn't compare each show because you know, well, we've talked a lot about Fame Becomes Me, but I think with Next to Normal, it was like it was the depth of that material that inspired me so much, and it was the the incredible writing and the the how brilliant the production was and the way Michael Grife directed it, and the cast was so sensational, and and just getting to really be I've never done a show where the music was so woven into the storytelling is that to where you really feel like you're the the next the next cast member when you're conducting it because you're literally playing scenes, it's a complete give and take and back and forth and energy exchange with the cast.

[35:58] Eli Tokash: Oh yeah, and then I would say for me, Godspell the hook was quite literally just the cast was so unbelievably talented that making and the band was amazing, and making that music with that group of people every night was so exhilarating.

[36:13] Charlie Alterman: Yeah, you know, I would be we would be in music rehearsals, and they all half almost all of them read music, so it was like they're you know, I'm ready to plunk stuff out. They're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you don't need to fuck, let's go for it. I'm like, okay, and then the stuff that usually it's like okay, let's give it a few days to sink in, and then we can talk about vibrato, not vibrato cutoff stuff. Like, as I'm plunking, they're like, and do you want that with vibrato? Okay, do you want that fold out that mix? Do you want that? I was just like, Oh my god, the very like they were all like in a good way, they were all music geeks. So we like got we got the technical stuff out of the way so fast, and then we're just totally shaping the vibe and the attitude, and the I mean, and they were so on it.

I mean, cause the way that show's written, everyone has their big breakout song, but they're all in every song, yeah. So it's like singing the backups. So, in what show do you have, you know, Lindsay Mendez and Morgan James and Celise Henderson like singing your backups? Like that just doesn't happen, you know?

[37:09] Eli Tokash: Right.

[37:10] Charlie Alterman: And those those arrangements that Michael Holland did were incredible. And hearing them with this stellar cast just going for it was like that was my and then Pippin for me, the whole excitement was the whole circus.

[37:22] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[37:23] Charlie Alterman: Yeah. So that's what I wanted to talk to you. I wanted to s speak on that because there was so many new things about Pippin. Like, so was this actually the only show that you worked on that was a revival on Broadway? Or am I m mistaking that?

[37:39] Charlie Alterman: Godspell was also a revival.

[37:41] Eli Tokash: Okay, it was.

[37:42] Charlie Alterman: And it was interesting because they were both Stephen Shwartz revivals. Right. But there were sort of different and there were both shows, there was an instinct to update them. Uh-huh. You know, they were both shows from the 70s, so there were certain things about them that might have felt dated, even though there was a lot about both that was very timeless. And with Godspell, the real thing we kept talking about with updating it was that the songs were written to be contemporary and designed to be contemporary. So it was like, you know, if every if if when they were written in the 70s they were supposed to sound like songs that were on the radio, which they really were. I mean, Steve's a brilliant pop writer, how do we now make them sound like songs that could be on the radio now? Wow. You know, so that it still has that idea that they're current.

[38:26] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[38:26] Charlie Alterman: So those were explicitly updated musically on Pippin. We did some updating, but it wasn't as much for the explicit sense of it, because that music was always sort of in a variety of styles, and some of it was meant to sound sort of baroque and old timey, you know, because the show takes place in the past and some of it was meant to be contemporary, but not specifically for the sake of being contemporary, so much as just that was the musical vocabulary at the time it was written. Totally. And the great thing that Larry Hockman, our orchestrator said, which I thought was so perfect, is he said, we don't need in terms of updating the sound of the pop stuff, he said the fact that I'm orchestrating it in twenty fifteen or twenty thirteen or whatever year it was, and the fact that you got that the musicians are playing it and interpreting my charts in twenty thirteen will give it a more current sound.

Uh-huh. We don't have to explicitly lit s analyze and intellectualize how are we going to update it. Wow. We can because I've experienced this too, that there's a lot of times where I think I know a song from having played out the cast album and I'll sit down and play it by ear, playing kind of what I think it is. Right. And people be like, Oh, that's cool how you updated it. I'm like, what are you talking about? Because in my mind, I'm just playing the cast album, and then I'll go back and listen to the cast album, and it's like, oh yeah, that was a little different. So, you know.

[39:41] Eli Tokash: That's so cool.

[39:42] Charlie Alterman: And I get but I guess I'm channeling like the instinct or the idea or just the vibe of it and channeling it through like whatever sensibility in the present time is coming out. So I think there was some of that with Pippin, but the explicit work we did musically was integrating the circus world. Right. And of course, you you know, you no longer have this Broadway legend playing the leading player, you have a female playing the leading player too. How do you now like how did that change the dynamics of how you looked at songs like, you know, Glory and uh right track and stuff like that?

[40:18] Charlie Alterman: Right track. It's funny you should say that right track was possibly the hardest because most of the songs, like even Glory, it's a huge group number, but the lead vocal is all the leading player. Right. So you basically find the perfect key for your leading player, which you know, for the record you would do even if it was a man, because it might not be it might be a man with a different like we changed a lot of the Pippin keys for Matthew James Thomas just because he lives a little higher. Wow. You know, which and it's funny, this is a side note, but it's like a thing that drives me crazy where I feel like there's been a thing on Broadway the last like five, ten years where there's this notion that like higher is better, like, oh, we're gonna raise the key because they're a better singer, or oh, we had to lower it because you're a uh not as good of a singer.

I'm like, no, everyone's voice just lives in a certain place, and one isn't better. The place isn't better or worse. Right. It's just about finding that sweet spot, you know. Um, and it's about where do you you know, whatever their money note is, you want that to be the money note of the song so that it's effortless but thrilling, but you know, and a lot of the stuff was just feel you know, Matthew kept saying, like, if we could bring it up, if we could bring it up, but it all sort of sounded fine. So I was like, I don't know that we need to, and then we were like, well, let's try it. And it was like, oh, I get it now. This just like your voice just sits a little higher. Like he it was fine in the lower keys, but it was like some of the low stuff was a reach, and he's like, now I could just soar.

But then, you know, under studies and replacements were like, Why is and so then we did actually take some stuff back down when he left just because that was where his voice is in its meat, you know, and then like Kyle Dean Massey, who replaced him, who has a glorious voice, like he's just got like his his money notes are slightly different, you know. So, but I digress. The point is for the female player, so you kind of find the key that's the that makes the most sense for them to sing the song in. Uh-huh. And then you sort of re arrange the the group vocals, yeah, so that they're still in a good range for the cast, but they still support the storytelling. So like glory involved some.

[42:14] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[42:15] Charlie Alterman: So a song like Glory involved a bit of a redo of the vocals. But other than that, and obviously, you know, it was a new orchestration anyway, but when you're moving more than a step or two, it does sometimes mean reimagining the orchestration, because suddenly something's a little out of either out sometimes technically out of range, but also like in the same way you want a voice in their money range, you want like a trumpet in their money range, right? So it's like suddenly that thrilling blare from the trumpet is a little low, and you're like, Well, that doesn't have the same punch, so maybe you want to voice it higher, or you've taken the song up and now it's just so ludicrously high that like the player's like, you gotta be kidding me, and or your ears are like, I'm bleeding.

Why it's too why is it so high? So, you know, it's all that kind of finessing. But then the trick is when it's like a duet, what do you do? So it's like we had to make all those little decisions, but it was exciting because it made it feel like a new show, even though it was a revival. It's like, all right, we have to figure this out. And what if we do what do we do here? And oh, you can sing this instead of, you know. Even like as an example, there was a mo a line in the like the finale is mostly the leading player at the top, anyway. You know, all the things about your life, Pip and stuff, and then it becomes more about Pippin at the end. But um, and there's a the angels of the morning are calling out your name in the original was the leading player, and then uh one of the actors comes in to do a duet with them, and it was Fastrata in the original.

[43:38] Charlie Alterman: But we thought it would be nice to still have a male female duet there, so instead of Fastrata, we made it Eric.

[43:43] Eli Tokash: Right.

[43:44] Charlie Alterman: So that you still had a female voice and a male voice, and you still had that sort of sense of a harmony with a bit of an interval and two different timbres to it. So we did some clever things like that, but on the right track was tricky because you have to sort of find a key that's right for the leading player, and then also a key that's right for Pippin. Although in that case, it really is mostly the leading player up top, and then it's mostly Pippin at the end. So I think we moved the key for her and found a way in the dance break to modulate back to the original.

[44:12] Eli Tokash: Oh, really?

[44:13] Charlie Alterman: Yeah. So that he could sing in the original Pippin key. I mean, there was a lot of that. Also, like the opening is all the leading player for the first verse, but then the second verse goes into these breakout solos.

[44:24] Eli Tokash: Right.

[44:24] Charlie Alterman: That were all kind of arranged around the key of a male leading player. So I think we took it up for the leading player spot, and then we modulated right when Fastrata came in. So there was a lot of stuff like that that was like unfortunately we had a long road to Broadway, so we had time to really iron that out.

[44:42] Eli Tokash: Sure.

[44:43] Charlie Alterman: Well, that's so interesting. Cause now that you're like bringing all these things up, like obviously you've been on both sides where you've done a revival of songs that have already been like, you know, kind of solidified in a lot of ways, and then you've done new shows that are still like you're trying to figure it out. Do you have like a preference, or like do you like do you just enjoy like I don't know, like what do you kind of enjoy the most doing?

[45:08] Charlie Alterman: I kind of enjoy all of it. It's I think I really love the creative process of putting a new thing together.

[45:14] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[45:15] Charlie Alterman: So in a way I would say the new shows, but then if it's the right show and Godspell and Pippin were both shows that were ripe for this, um, it's it's thrilling to bring that same energy to a revival and say, like, we're gonna because both in both cases we almost treated it as though it was a new show, and in both cases we were lucky because we had Stephen Shwartz there to bounce ideas around, and you know, I remember on in Godspell, uh, in the song Light of the World.

[45:48] Eli Tokash: Wait, it's not lies, learn your lessons well.

[45:51] Charlie Alterman: There was this section in the middle that was always a spoken kind of rap thing, like the lamp, lamp, lamp of the body, body, body, is it which was cool, but it was like interrupted the song in a weird way, and it always felt a little like beat poetry 70s, and we're like, we want to make this a little more current. And so the director said to Steven, like, what if this could this be song?

[46:14] Charlie Alterman: And he actually wrote a new piece of music that is now in the show, like, you know, because they license our revival version, and it's gorgeous. He wrote this, like a basically like a bridge to learn your lessons well. And then Michael Holland did this absolutely glorious vocal arrangement on it, and it became one of my favorite pieces of music in the show. And I was like, this only existed because of this revival, and our director having an idea and Steven getting inspired by it, and him, you know.

[46:39] Eli Tokash: So it's thrilling when the two worlds meet.

[46:42] Charlie Alterman: It's funny. I've also then done like I've done a bunch of shows at the Muni in St. Louis, where on the one hand it's frustrating because it's a it's it's a it's which if people don't know the Muni, it's this huge, crazy summer stock theater in St. Louis. It's 11,000 seats. I mean, it's yeah, awesome. So they do everything at a really big scale, and they get incredible talent to work there. And it feels like you're doing a Broadway show in terms of the level of talent you're working with, but it's still one week stock. You have 12 days to rehearse, seven days to perform, you go home.

[47:11] Charlie Alterman: So it's frustrating in those situations that it's like, oh, I want to get in and reimagine it. And it's like you just don't have the time or the resources. Like you don't have an orchestrator, you don't have a you know, it's like we can't really come up with all this new stuff. But in the same way, it's also sort of so sometimes that's frustrating, but sometimes it's also as I just like a variety. Like it's nice to also do a kind of I call it like an out of the box show.

[47:33] Eli Tokash: Yeah, it's like if it ain't broke, don't you know?

[47:35] Charlie Alterman: It's like let you just want to coach the best performances you can, and it's kind of like here are the charts, here's the here are the parts, here are the songs, here's how it's going. Let's learn them, let's do it well, see you at opening, you know.

[47:47] Eli Tokash: Yeah, right.

[47:49] Charlie Alterman: Like, I see that schedule, and it's like, how could we make this work? But you realize, like, oh, you're not writing it, you're not coming up with what these routines are gonna be. It's kind of I mean, you and the director and the choreographer have to do a lot of work ahead of time to have a plan, but then it's kind of like one giant put in rehearsal for everyone, right?

[48:06] Eli Tokash: It's like it's like just learn the steps.

[48:08] Charlie Alterman: We know, you know, it's you're you're not like what do we do with this dance break? And let's get in a room and workshop it for a week. It's like, here's the music, here's the choreography, let's go.

[48:17] Charlie Alterman: Yeah, so sometimes that's liberating, uh-huh, right? Because it's like, oh, it's so much less to worry about. But then sometimes it's also like I'm not flexing as many creative muscles. So it's I I I like doing a I like doing a blend.

[48:30] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[48:30] Charlie Alterman: I think bottom line, like ver I I've been lucky in my career that I've had it's had a lot of variety, and I think that's what's helped me stay constantly excited about it.

[48:39] Eli Tokash: Yeah, you know, there's always I always love the adventure of this is this is different than the last show, and thus, you know, it never feels like here we go again.

[48:47] Charlie Alterman: Right.

[48:48] Eli Tokash: Oh my god.

[48:49] Charlie Alterman: So speaking of variety, now you're doing like TV, like in the world, which is a whole other world.

[48:56] Eli Tokash: Right. So, like, okay, for anybody who doesn't know, uh Charlie is now the music consultant on Zoe's Extraordinary Playlist, which last night just had an episode starring Bernadette Peters.

[49:08] Charlie Alterman: Ever heard of her?

[49:09] Eli Tokash: Yeah, I don't know.

[49:10] Charlie Alterman: Um, any I like it was I that was another moment where I was like, Charlie, play it cool, play it cool because she's also an absolute hero of mine.

[49:18] Eli Tokash: Oh my god, literally, how can she not be that talk about like legend of the icon?

[49:25] Charlie Alterman: Yeah, yeah.

[49:25] Eli Tokash: No, yeah, it's she's incredible.

[49:28] Charlie Alterman: Yeah, it's like Bernadette and then like everyone else.

[49:31] Eli Tokash: Yeah, no, she's beyond amazing, and also just the most normal, down to earth, cool person, as almost all of the best stories.

[49:41] Charlie Alterman: Right, you know, it's like, yeah.

[49:43] Eli Tokash: Totally.

[49:44] Charlie Alterman: But let's talk about Zoe.

[49:45] Eli Tokash: So you're a music consultant there.

[49:47] Charlie Alterman: So, like, first of all, explain what a music consultant is.

[49:51] Charlie Alterman: Also, like, what's the biggest difference of doing like a show uh on TV compared to like Broadway?

[49:57] Charlie Alterman: Completely in some ways it's so similar because at the end of the day, you're telling stories through song, right? So, in terms of what you hope the final product is and the way that it reaches an audience, it is the same, but how you get there is totally different, right? You know, the frustrating thing is you lose that sense of that alchemy and that energy and the way that a performance bounces back and forth with an audience in real time, but what you gain is the ability to completely microscopically manipulate every minutiae and get it, you know.

[50:28] Charlie Alterman: You can like it's like making a recording, so you can go through and you can be like, I want this word from this take, and that way you get like the best possible vocal take you could want because it's almost always pre-recorded, which in my mind was always like a oh that's so annoying, and it's just because everyone's so obsessed with it being perfect or whatever. And some of that is true, but I learned most of it is technical that just quite literally capturing live sound while you have 8,000 other elements is like can be wildly unpredictable, and it doesn't it might not go well, and then you're like, Well, now what?

[50:59] Charlie Alterman: So we do some songs on the show have been sung live.

[51:03] Eli Tokash: No way, usually it's like a yeah, it's only we did maybe like a handful this year.

[51:08] Charlie Alterman: It was all they were also later in the season, once we kind of had the COVID stuff a little more down because it like singing singing on masked is also more dangerous, so you could only really do it if there weren't like a lot of other people around, you know, if you could still be far apart from the other actors. Even when we did a live vocal, we would always pre-record it first as well as a backup.

[51:27] Eli Tokash: Um I heard that I was like, Oh, yeah, okay.

[51:30] Charlie Alterman: Like if someone wakes up that day with no with no voice, but it's not just that, it's also like you get in, you know, it's a multi, it's like a multi-million dollar, it's this very expensive shoot, and everyone's on the clock, and you gotta get and as you know, as much as it I always say like TV feels like you're just in a non an endless tech rehearsal, yeah.

[51:48] Charlie Alterman: So it's always sort of that pacing, you know what I mean?

[51:50] Eli Tokash: Uh-huh.

[51:50] Charlie Alterman: But um, so even though it feels like it's moving slowly, it's still like every minute counts, and you don't want to be the one that's bogging the process down. So it could be that you get in there planning to do it live, and you discover, like, oh, actually, because of something with the camera angle, we can't hide the boom mic, so we have no way to mic it, and then you'd have to go, you know, so it's like, or there's we didn't realize that such and such is gonna create noise, and we can you know, it it could be a thousand different technical things, so you just always we I know we never had that happen, like the ones we wanted to do live, we did live, but you just always want to have a backup, so it's not like well crap, now we have to just shut down production on this song because we don't have a thing to play, right?

[52:29] Charlie Alterman: Wow, so yeah, and it's also, I think, like, you know, you can get you can fix a lot of stuff with audio and post.

[52:36] Charlie Alterman: You can even like if the lip sync isn't perfect, we can nudge a a word to match the video visual, you know, there's a lot of things you can do, but you gotta get that visual right because it's your only chance to do it. So what that means is on set the priority is always much more about the visual.

[52:51] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[52:51] Charlie Alterman: So the uh the other reason it's easier to do it with a pre-record is you don't want a thing where it's like you don't want to be in the position where the take that everyone loves is the one where someone dropped a thing in the corner and then you can't you or or that they cracked on a note and then you can't use that audio. You know what I mean?

[53:07] Eli Tokash: Right.

[53:08] Charlie Alterman: And especially for like a show like Zoe's because it it from what it looks on TV, I at least I think it's all done in one take, right?

[53:16] Eli Tokash: The songs?

[53:17] Charlie Alterman: Like it's not like you chop it up.

[53:19] Eli Tokash: Most of them.

[53:19] Charlie Alterman: It depends on it depends on the song, but most of them are.

[53:22] Eli Tokash: Okay.

[53:22] Charlie Alterman: Oftentimes you'll like cut to Zoe for a reaction, which gives you an opportunity to go back, but usually the master, as they call it, like is like is a a one-er, is just you know, one shot, and then you might pull away from it and go back, but it's that's then you'd have to do the whole thing over if someone messed up.

[53:40] Eli Tokash: One that would yeah, that's so 100%.

[53:43] Charlie Alterman: So it just takes a lot the ones that we've done live are usually like a park and bark for lack of a better way to put it, you know.

[53:49] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[53:50] Charlie Alterman: Like we did um uh the episode where the songs got switched. If anyone saw it, was um there's a thing where Max sings a song called Anyone.

[54:01] Eli Tokash: Yeah, oh my god, stop.

[54:02] Charlie Alterman: And then Emily sings it at the end. Those were both live because we wanted it to really be and they both did a very beautiful emotional pre-record that we were ready to use, and I think we sort of both of them we would sort of we did a lip sync the first time or two because we knew they'd still be figuring out camera stuff and we probably wouldn't be using them.

[54:20] Charlie Alterman: Uh-huh.

[54:20] Eli Tokash: But and it wasn't that they couldn't do like it sounded beautiful.

[54:23] Charlie Alterman: We got a really emotional take from both of them in the booth. They did a really emotional performance, but it's one thing to match your lips, it's another thing to have to match, like, and that's the exact moment where the tears are gonna fall and I'm gonna crack on a note or whatever.

[54:36] Charlie Alterman: So it's like it was like just try it live, and I mean, I think the results were incredible in both cases.

[54:41] Eli Tokash: Yeah, oh my god, Skyler Aston is literally probably on my list of like people that I'd freak out if I had like walked into a room with he's so good.

[54:51] Charlie Alterman: His voice is incredible, incredible, he's incredible.

[54:53] Eli Tokash: Oh my god, the whole cast, I really like I mean it's a dream working.

[54:58] Charlie Alterman: Oh my god, they're amazing.

[55:00] Eli Tokash: Alex's voice is like from the gods.

[55:04] Charlie Alterman: I mean, it's insane.

[55:05] Eli Tokash: It's insane.

[55:06] Charlie Alterman: I was and I was all it's another moment where like I was a fan of Alex's music before I got the job, and I was like, there will be a day where I come to the studio with my dry with my windows open, blaring one of his songs, and then he is just like, Oh hey, that's me.

[55:22] Charlie Alterman: Cause I like legit listen to his music because it's amazing.

[55:26] Eli Tokash: So yeah, it's um it's it's like the whole cast, and I love how everyone is so game and everyone is so good, but coming from a very wide background, like everything from Alex, who's literally a recording artist, to you know, people like Skyler and Alice Lee and Michael Thomas Grant, who are you know seasoned musical theater performers, right? To people like Jane and Mary, who really have no singing background at all, even though they both sing very well, you know?

[55:57] Charlie Alterman: So it's it's wonder and then everything in between.

[56:00] Eli Tokash: So it's like it's great.

[56:02] Charlie Alterman: I love the variety of that too. Because again, it's like you don't get bored, it's like everyone because I but basically the I mean music consultant is a pretty wide open nebulous term, but basically what I'm doing on the show is it's almost like if it was a play like what the music director would do.

[56:18] Charlie Alterman: Like I'm working with uh without conducting the orchestra obviously because it's you know the tracks are all exist. But we have this brilliant music producer out of LA named uh Harvey Mason Jr. who he does the arrangements, he creates the tracks, he puts together all of the group vocals or background vocals if there's anything like that on a song.

[56:38] Charlie Alterman: And uh he'll have his singers do a demo track but then we basically get the track as an instrumental and then the track with a demo I get that out to the actors and then I start working with the actors to sort of get them prepped on their performance of it both you know in terms of interpretation and in terms of vocal technique and all that kind of stuff.

[56:57] Charlie Alterman: And again it varies widely from person to person you know what kind of help they they're interested in. And then because we record everything even if we're gonna sing it live when we do those recording sessions we have a recording studio right on set which is amazing.

[57:11] Eli Tokash: Oh wow.

[57:11] Charlie Alterman: So you don't have to like shuttle back and because it's oh wow you know the scheduling can be insane and often it's like great they're turning the camera around can we get them up to the booth for 20 minutes we're gonna try and bang this out I mean it's all it's always like so tight.

[57:24] Charlie Alterman: So it's great that it's right on campus. Harvey the music producer will kind of FaceTime into those sessions and then I'm there in person and we kind of tag team oh wow getting the songs pre-recorded and that's maybe my favorite part just because it's my chance to work with Harvey and he's awesome.

[57:41] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[57:41] Charlie Alterman: And I love being in the studio I I I just I'm even like prior to doing this show, like cast albums or other recordings and stuff that I worked on. It's such a great it's so much fun. And then when we record when we shoot the numbers, I'm on set to check the lip sync, or if it's a live vocal to sort of be there to coach stuff and you know shape it and whatnot.

[58:02] Charlie Alterman: So it's pretty exciting, but it's also like almost like several jobs at once. So it's like my days vary wildly. Because some days it's like we're shooting two numbers and I'm trying to sneak some other stuff in, and some days it's like great, there's no numbers on set today, but I've got four pre-records, or some, and then I'm you know, rehearsing a few other things, and you know, and then I'm also kind of there for other things that come up musically. Like we've done a few things this season, um, like with Aiden the next door neighbor and the rock band and David playing in that. So there you have to do it's like what's the lip sync version of playing instruments, you know. And so it was all people who really played, but you know, you have to make it so it really looks like you're playing that guitar part and that drum part, and you know, so I was sort of helping with that. Um it's like all different stuff.

[58:48] Eli Tokash: Wow, that's insane. How does it work as far as like you know, picking out the song? Like, do you are you working with like a team uh who and like the writers and everything like that?

[59:01] Charlie Alterman: I actually don't pick the songs that all come that all comes out of the writer's room. Okay, and then also in consultation with their music supervisor who does the rights clearances. Because sometimes they'll have a great idea for the song, and she's like, You'll never get that song. Don't even drink like she's amazing, she's been doing this a long time and knows like she knows like what artists like will and won't give you the rights to that stuff. So she'll or like you know, she'll be like, That that won't that won't be a problem. You're never gonna get this. Uh, let's try, or this one's gonna be hard, write a letter, make it personal, do it. You know, it's like yeah, so it's been really interesting, and I think Wow, what a process.

[59:38] Charlie Alterman: Oh, there's so many things, and there have been songs sometimes. Songs will change because they'll be like, No, never mind, we had a better idea. You know, like sometimes you'll see an outline come of an upcoming episode that'll have the list of songs, and I'll be like, Oh, we're doing that one, and then five days later you'll get like new outline, and I'm like, Oh, now that's different song. Okay, you know, but it is crazy because you're you're you're you kind of have to like be thinking down the line. So it's like while we're while we're just to make life easy, like we're shooting episode one at the same time. We're rehearsing and we're we're prepping episode two. So we're while we're shooting episode one, I'm rehearsing people on their songs for episode two, I'm recording their songs for episode two.

So a lot of what I try and do is because you have to record them like a week before you shoot them. Uh-huh. Sometimes they're not totally in that mindset yet. So it's not just learning the song and singing it well, it's also like let's really decode what this is about and what we're doing. And hopefully they've been in a choreography rehearsal or two first so they know what the staging is and they really know what the scene surrounding the song is so they know how to play it. Cause the trap when you record it in advance is it's easy to just focus on sounding good.

[01:00:48] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[01:00:49] Charlie Alterman: And you create the version that's like your radio ready pop single of the song, and then you get on set and you have to lip sync to it, and you're like, Oh, I feel totally disconnected. I want to play it differently now. But then you're locked into that other thing. So part of what I try and do is really get everyone in the mindset of like forget that you're in the studio, pretend that you're putting think about who else isn't on stage or on set with you right now, and you know, what are the lines before and what are you going through? And what you know, so that you try and get the performance in the booth that's gonna match what they're gonna ultimately want to do on set. That's what's like the nuance of it that's that I'm trying to bring to it specifically.

[01:01:26] Wow.

[01:01:27] Charlie Alterman: And you know, there are times that it's hard because you're like, we're still waiting on those script pages. I think it's this, but I you know, like it just depends on the luck of the draw of like when you need there's so many moving parts that go into like when you can schedule it and all of that. So that's been that's probably the trickiest part of the job is just you know, navigating all that timing, but it's it's also so I love it. I l it's so inspiring. And um, and I love that you can like you really have the chance to like get it right.

[01:01:56] Eli Tokash: Yes.

[01:01:57] Charlie Alterman: Although the flip side of that too is you gotta feel like you gotta you gotta own whatever you did, you know. It's like yeah, theater can be like, well, that was that crazy night, whatever. It's like it's all the moment of how people experience it, it doesn't exist once it's done. Yeah, versus you know, still I'll go back and watch episodes and be like, oh, I wish we had gotten that differently. You know what I mean? It's really wow. Always just with stupid stuff, like a thing where I'm like, I wish that lip sync looked a little better. I would you know, it's always something like that. It's you know what I mean? It's rarely the fundamentals. I feel good about fundamentally how all the songs came out, but it's like and stuff that no one else would ever see.

You know, it's like I have a friend who's a potter and we and is a fan of the show, and we talked about this, and she's like, that must be so weird. But at the same time, she's like, I guess it's the same as like for me, like once I put it in the kiln, it's like, well, I can't change it now. She's like, there's a little malleability before you put it in the kiln. Right. And you can still fuss over la every last little detail, but once it comes out, it's like, well, that's what it is. So I have to just release it because I can't change it now, you know.

[01:02:58] Yeah, exactly.

[01:02:59] Charlie Alterman: Exactly. And that's the way it's case with any recorded medium. Like, I I've any interview I've seen with you know, like a recording artist that I idolize, they all talk about like it's hard for me to listen to my music because all I hear is the little things that I wish I could go back and do differently.

[1:03:02] Absolutely.

[1:03:02] Eli Tokash: You know?

[01:03:16] Totally.

[01:03:16] Charlie Alterman: Yeah. It's so tricky, but that's the that's what I love about live theater though, too. Like, sure, you get that one like one night, but you also know like you're gonna be able to do it the next night, you know, and and like to do it a different way and continue to explore. But I I couldn't imagine just like doing it on TV or like or being even a recording artist. Like you just got like one day to do it, and that's the day it's gotta happen.

[01:03:43] Eli Tokash: Like that's crazy.

[01:03:44] Charlie Alterman: Well, and there's pros and cons, right? Like, and I see both sides of it. Which is also why I kind of like working in both mediums, because you get to it, it makes you appreciate the pros and ignore the cons, right?

[01:03:55] Right.

[01:03:56] Charlie Alterman: But like in a the in a theater piece, you have that chance to, you know, two hundred performances in find new things and deepen and stuff you might not have thought of for earlier on. And in a way that's really exciting. But also on the flip side, there is that old thing where like your first instinct was probably the the best one. I th uh Nikki Martin, who is one of my favorite directors I've worked with, he said like basically at the end of the day, you're all just trying to re every minute of every second that you're on every second of every minute, you know what I'm saying? Every second that you're on stage in a play, you're trying to recapture the magic of the first read through.

[01:04:30] Yes.

[01:04:31] Charlie Alterman: Because that first read through when it's just first instinct, here we go is always magical. And then you tear it apart and you overanalyze and you think about 8,000 things and you try it 30 different ways and you come back with what you think is good.

[01:04:41] Absolutely.

[01:04:42] Eli Tokash: And it's like, well, it was magic in the read through. So in a way, that's also what's great about film and TV is you don't have time to overanalyze and obsess and think it's just like here's my first instinct. Great, we got it on film, you know?

[01:04:54] Yeah.

[01:04:54] Charlie Alterman: Wow. Um yeah, that's a great way to put it. I've never thought of it that way. There is that too, you know, like you might it for every minute that you're bummed that you thought of something after the fact that you can't go back and do. There's also that like we actually got the lightning in the bottle of like your first read and your first instinct on this the way to play this material, you know?

[01:05:13] Yeah.

[01:05:14] Eli Tokash: Before you before you made it about 800 other things, you know.

[01:05:18] Totally, totally.

[01:05:20] Eli Tokash: Well, Charlie, I have to say this has been a blast, but we I'm taking up too much of your time. Um this was incredible. All of this is just um it's fascinating to me. I mean, I'm someone who's like, you know, trying to learn instruments now. I know a little bit of ukulele, I know a little bit of guitar. Well, I definitely know ukulele because of finding neverland. But like the guitar I'm slowly starting getting into everything like that. I want to do piano.

[01:05:47] Charlie Alterman: Oh, yeah, guitar is awesome.

[01:05:48] Eli Tokash: Yeah, all of that stuff, but I love like music, and I feel like just instruments is like just an outlet for people that love it in like music in general. So all of this stuff has been incredible for me and for everybody who's listening. And and I can't thank you enough for just sharing your stories.

[01:06:06] Charlie Alterman: Of course.

[01:06:07] Charlie Alterman: I would say, I mean, my one little thing I would say about learning instruments is like, yeah, it's never too late to start, but it will always be easier the younger you are when you and it's not about your brain losing a capacity. Here's my theory about it. This is not scientific, but uh it's not that your brain loses the capacity to try to learn new things. I think you're just as capable of learning something at age 30 as you are at age three.

[01:06:30] Sure.

[01:06:31] Charlie Alterman: But you lose patience. When you're 30, you're so good at so many things that the thought of taking the time to be bad at an instrument while you're learning how to be good at it, is like, ugh, I'm so bored of not being good or this is taking too long. I'm impatient now. Whereas like, you know, I started instruments when I was so young. It's like, I mean, I was four when I started taking piano lessons. I wasn't good at anything when I was four. You know what I mean? So it's like, of course, I'm fine being not great at piano. I'm learning how to talk, I'm learning how to read, I'm learning how to, you know, deal relate to other people, like all of these things. So it's like, you know, because it took probably, you know, I mean, I could play songs, but like I could play like twinkle twinkle little star.

Do you know what I mean? Like it it was probably I was probably putting yourself ten before I was able to like play a song that was like gratifying in a like ooh, this song that I love that I know I'm gonna sit down and play and get you know, so it's like that was like six years of playing piano. So it's like it's the thought of as an adult taking six years to get to a point where you get the payback for it, you're like, this is too much of a time investment.

[01:07:34] Sure.

[01:07:34] Charlie Alterman: So that's all, but you know, but you're still, you know, you could still you could still learn it all. And and in some ways you learn it quickly because you have other stuff in your life that to put to draw from.

[01:07:44] Right.

[01:07:44] Eli Tokash: Anyways, but now I'm rambling.

[01:07:46] Charlie Alterman: No, it's all good.

[01:07:47] Eli Tokash: I love it. I love hearing all of these stories and hearing your experience because like you listen, you're like one of the top musical directors in the industry. You're doing it all, you're always working, you're going from show to show. I love it. I love watching it. I mean, we didn't even get to talk about Charlie and the chocolate factory when you're on tour teaching everybody.

[01:08:07] Charlie Alterman: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I can't imagine being a musical director on tour. You have to teach everyone in a new city in the orchestra, all the songs.

[01:08:15] Eli Tokash: Pretty crazy week.

[1:08:27] Charlie Alterman: I can't. I I literally I can't I I can't even imagine. But what you do is just so impressive, so amazing. I love everybody. I really got into like musical directors when I met Mary Mitchell Campbell. Uh she was in Finding Neverland, she was our mutual director. Unbelievable. I mean, like that was like one of my all-time. She's just to see how your guys' brains just work, and just to see like how you guys just go about and do everything. Like you guys are the true like unsung heroes of musical theater. And like it's just it's it's amazing what you guys do.

[01:09:05] Charlie Alterman: Yeah, I I seriously I'm fascinated by all of it. But yeah, I appreciate you coming on, so thank you.

[01:09:11] Charlie Alterman: Of course, thanks for having me.

[01:09:12] Eli Tokash: Hey, take about Charlie Alterman.

[01:09:16] Charlie Alterman: Oh my god. Okay, I'm literally like blown away still. Like the fact that like first of all, I didn't know that like conductors had auditions, and like just the way that like his audition went, especially that first audition with Marc Shaiman, the way that he you know, he didn't even know that it was really his audition when he was going to his apartment, but like they gave it to him on the spot and everything like that. It's just so so cool. I loved all of these stories, and I love the story of just like you know, he was originally hired to do one thing and then had to like completely just re-evaluate and adjust his contract and everything like that. It was just I was like, wow, your career is something else.

And uh it's been really cool just to see how you know he's worked with Stephen Shwartz for all of these years and have learned from under him and uh all of these incredible uh composers and uh lyricists in Tom Kitt, Stephen Shwartz, Marc Shaiman, of course. Yeah, just it it's incredible. And just the people that he's been able to work with on the way. Um we didn't get to talk about half of the things that I wanted to I wanted to, you know, explain the whole conductor versus music director during it, but I knew it was gonna be a long episode and a long interview. So I didn't want to take up too much of your time and I was like, oh I could do it in the drama dictionary. So I hope it worked out well and I hope that it was beneficial to have that information before uh hearing the episode.

Um and what he's been doing with Zoe's extraordinary playlist, I could have talked to him about it all day long. Because I'm just so so intrigued about how shows like that work. Um ever since really Glee since I've like watched like because of Matthew really I've always wondered how shows like that work and just the way he was able to say like oh you know some are live some are recorded uh we plan on doing them live but we always have a backup and everything like that like you never think of oh I have to help this one lip sync. And you know like I you never think that like they're gonna have rehearsals or anything like that. Um it's kind of just like oh wow they're gonna sing in this show now like this is great.

And we kind of figure that it's not live and anything like that. But um and that was in the the another interesting thing of like why you don't like sing live during a like during filming. Because I always thought it was so that like because in films you know you do so many takes every day of the same scene that like your voice may get tired or something like that. But to hear that it was just about the technology and the sound of everything and how you know it could really be affected. I thought all of that was extremely, extremely interesting. Um, and I loved the insight that he was able to give us. So thank you, Charlie, for coming on this episode of Take A Bow, which is extra special, and just bringing us a new side of the industry that never really, you know, uh given the proper attention and the proper love that we all should because they're the true heartbeats of any musical and any musical show as well.

Like even if it is filmed on TV or movies or anything like that, they are the ones that are the heartbeat of that because without the songs, there would be no musical or TV show or anything like that.

[1:12:33] Eli Tokash: So thank you, Charlie. I am so happy that you were able to come on this episode and let's talk about some exciting things we have going on.

[1:12:41] Eli Tokash: So as I mentioned this week, you can watch Jeremy Jordan's 54 Below concert today, starting today, for $35. And you could do a $50 VIP ticket with a Q&A with him. It's gonna be live, so it's gonna be like after the premiere stream of his concert. So it's probably going to be around 8:30. Just so that you all are aware, I think it's gonna be a great opportunity to meet Jeremy Jordan to learn more about Jeremy Jordan. I want to have him on the podcast so bad. So I'm gonna try to make it, and maybe I'll see you all there.

[1:13:16] Eli Tokash: So I want to also just talk to you for a second. Okay, this isn't even like an ad or anything because I'm not getting paid for this, but I just want to say that I have been obsessed with these Awala bottles, they're called. So they're like water bottles, but the brand is called Owala, and I've had them for like since the beginning of this year, and I've been obsessed with them and I've been messaging them all the time and everything like that. So finally they were able to be so generous and give me a promo code to give you all.

[1:13:51] Eli Tokash: Because finding a water bottle as like a performer, or like just in general, like even as an athlete or someone who like works out or anything like that and does physical activity, it gets really difficult to find water bottles, you know, and like good water bottles that you like want. Cause I don't know. I often like my water bottle sometimes like doesn't taste good. It's not like dishwasher safe, it's like all of these things like go into it, and like I like my water bottles with straws. I don't know about you all, but that's kind of more who I am.

[1:14:28] Eli Tokash: But yeah, so anyways, I found these Awala bottles because they were doing a lot for healthcare workers, and I wanted to support their business, and at the time they were pretty small and they'd grown a lot over the past couple months. So they have really, really cool designs for water bottles. They have four different kinds, and they have a bunch of different colors. They have like a twist-off kind where you can do it as a regular water bottle, and you could there's a straw kind, and then there's a combination of the two where it's called like free sip, where it's a straw, but then you also have the option of drinking it like a regular water bottle and everything like that.

[1:15:02] Eli Tokash: So this water bottle is literally life-changing, and so this week, this week only, this week only, yes, you heard that right. From May 6th today, to May 13th, you can get a 20% off discount using the code Eli20. And once again, this is not an ad. I'm not getting paid for this, but I'm all I'm just trying to help you guys find a water bottle that you all like because I know summer's around the corner. I will like kind of promote my store. Then go to Take A Bow website and buy some stickers to put on the water bottle. Just an idea. You don't have to do it, but it's encouraged.

[1:15:44] Eli Tokash: So yeah, the website is owalalife.com. Use the code Eli20 to get 20% off. Um and I promise you you won't regret it. It's free shipping, it will come within like three to five business days. Um, it's great stuff, it's great quality, it's dishwasher safe, it's all the things that you want in a water bottle. Go check it out.

[1:16:04] Eli Tokash: So before we turn it over to Eli's Entertainment Experience, I just want to say thank you to all the moms out there in the world, but especially those who are supporting their kids in a career in the arts. Um, because I know a career in the arts is not what you dream of your child to do growing up, but it's something that allows your child to express themselves and express who they are. The hours put into it are uncountable. Uh, um, there's just a lot of sacrifices and there's a lot of dedication to pursue a career in the arts.

[1:16:43] Eli Tokash: So for all the moms supporting their kids and doing that, I especially thank you guys, and I'm sure you guys are also the only moms listening to this podcast right now. Um, so that is also why you get a special shout out. And I, yeah, I mean, literally, without my mom, I would not be where I am today. I would probably not even be in New York. I would not be talking with you all uh through this podcast and everything like that. But seriously, mom, I love you. I love all the moms out there who are supporting their kids and doing whatever they may uh want to do as I for fun or as a career.

[1:17:21] Eli Tokash: Um, so thank you all. You guys are the true rocks and heartbeats of families in general. Um, and I couldn't be more thankful for all of you, and I hope you all have a wonderful Mother's Day weekend. So now it's time for the triple E segment. Oh my gosh, it's the triple E segment. And this week's triple E segment in honor of the one year anniversary of this podcast, I'm gonna give you guys some inside scoop of the podcast that was never before talked about.

[1:17:51] Eli Tokash: Um, so let's talk about podcasting, right? So podcasting is something that I never thought I would ever do when I first said that I want to be a performer, even though I found out through the past year that doing a podcast is doing a performance. And it's doing a new performance every night, and it's doing a brand new script and a brand new agenda and topics, and it's just a brand new world. Every time you do it, every time every week when I come here, it's I don't even know what I'm gonna say and I love it and it keeps me on my toes, it keeps me excited, it keeps me engaged, and it's something fun that I never thought that I'd be able to do, and I can't believe that I've been doing it for a year now.

[1:18:41] Eli Tokash: Um, but let's talk about just starting out this podcast, right? So I originally had this idea, right, to do a podcast because I loved listening to podcasts, and I was like, oh, you know, like I'm bored at home. If I knew what I'd be doing the next year, I would maybe not have had this thought. I was bored at home and I was like, I want to do this. I think I want to start a podcast. Little did I know that hundreds of people would listen every week, so thank you all. I kind of just wanted an outlet to like talk and share my stories and experience. And that's also the reason that I love this segment.

[1:19:18] Eli Tokash: I had this idea, and I kind of just like began to research. And the research was helpful, but it was not what like I actually like needed to know. So I'm just gonna let you all know. If anyone's thinking about becoming a podcaster or anything like that, all you need really is a microphone, and you need obviously have a computer, and I recommend using a platform on your computer called Zencaster because it's a free platform where you can just record your podcasts, and now I do it with like auditions and everything like that. It's literally like changed my life. Also, not an ad.

[1:19:59] Eli Tokash: But seriously, if you're ever thinking about doing a podcast, do Zencaster, and then of course you need there's it's very complicated in getting your podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc. unless you are on a network. So I was like, you know what, I'm not gonna go on a network and because I want it to be like open and I want it to be free, and I don't want to have anything that I really need to talk about. But the thing was is that like it's really like key to have a network when you're starting a podcast, because you would have to manually upload your podcast to Apple Podcasts to Spotify to Stitcher to all these different platforms that I'm currently on, iHeartRadio, whatever you may be listening to this on, um and you know you have to like do that each each individually manually and it's just it gets difficult and on top of everything that you have to do already like when do you have the time to do that?

[1:20:56] Eli Tokash: So what I would recommend is starting out on SoundCloud. And that's I for those of you who've never heard it before SoundCloud is like a free platform where you can just stream your art. You can stream your music, you can stream your podcast, you can stream whatever. And then kind of just like having a couple episodes on there and seeing if you know promoting it of course um saying only through SoundCloud and getting people to listen and seeing if anybody like actually ends up taking a liking to it and if they do then that's great and you should continue to do it.

[1:21:29] Eli Tokash: But I recommend doing that as well so that you can have podcasts and episodes and art to then share when reaching out to networks because the biggest thing when Broadway Podcast Network when I had reached out to them I'd reached out to a bunch of networks before them and I was like oh like I would love to set up a meeting and stuff like that. And they were like oh yeah great send us over some episodes and we'll get in touch with you. And I was like oh well like I don't have any yet like it's just an idea and like I don't know what to do and I need guidance.

[1:21:50] Eli Tokash: And they were like I like never received a response from most of them. And here we are today with the Broadway Podcast Network. I spoke to them, I came with to them with my idea, I loved it. They loved it. I told them that I was trying to get uh Sydney Lucas to co-host with me. They loved that idea too. Um and they didn't need to see anything from me because I didn't even know what it was called yet. I didn't know uh any of the equipment that I needed and anything like that, and they helped me with uh with all of that.

[1:22:36] Eli Tokash: So thank you, Broadway Podcast Network for everything that you've done for me this past year. And for everyone who's like starting a podcast, you really have to um know what's ahead and know uh the work that goes into it, especially in starting it, because you need a topic, you need to have a title, you need all of these things, and I'm so so happy that every week I get a new literally every week, I get a new message on my social media saying, You have encouraged me to start a new podcast. You have encouraged me to want to start a podcast, you have got me into podcasts and all of these amazing things.

[1:23:15] Eli Tokash: And I never thought that there would be another uh a higher compliment than oh I love seeing you on stage and you were amazing and you inspired me to want to act and everything like that, but this does just that as well. So I can't thank you all for listening, um, for being engaged for the past hour and a half um and just giving me a place to speak for the past year and a half. And I want to say to everyone out there who's listening and wants to start a podcast or anything like that, you can always reach out to me and I promise I will do everything that I can to help um as far as giving you the proper information, uh as far as equipment and platforms and everything like that, um, ideas for names, ideas for topics, and ideas for everything like that. I've been helping a few patrons do the same.

[1:24:05] Eli Tokash: And I would love just all of it. So I know I've rambled, but um I just wanted to really give an in-depth scoop of what happened and kind of where my mind was. If you notice, like if you go down to our first episode, we uh it was released at this like around this date last year, and we had no idea. And we were like, oh my god, we're not even ready to continue to release. Like, so it's just so then we release like two or three weeks later. So it's just there's a lot that goes into it that you don't even think about. It's a great time and it's uh very time consuming, but it's totally worth it.

[1:24:46] Eli Tokash: Uh, especially when people are messaging you and telling you how much they like your podcast and how much uh you've inspired them throughout the podcast. So thank you everyone who has listened, and a special, special thank you to the patrons who have allowed everybody else to listen to these podcasts for the past year. Uh, because without them, they truly wouldn't have a podcast. So if you're interested in becoming a patron, check that out. Um I it would be an honor to welcome you to the Take A Bow team.

[1:25:16] Eli Tokash: With that being said, thank you to all the listeners, thank you, patrons, thank you, parents, thank you, moms in particular, and um thank you everyone for the wonderful birthday wishes. It's been an incredible week, and I can't wait to see you all next week to uh continue having incredible weeks with these incredible guests coming out. So thank you all for listening to 50 episodes of Take A Bow. Um it's been so much fun just being able to talk to every one of you uh these past this past year.

[1:25:48] Eli Tokash: Uh I wish Sydney was here to uh to share this moment with me because it's an incredible feeling. And um, yeah, I just I look forward to doing this for another year. I'll see you next week. For this episode's curtain call, I would like to recognize a few people who also deserve to take a bow. This podcast would not be possible without the help from Dory Berenstein, Brittany Bigelow, Katie Rosen, Alan Seales, and the team at the Broadway Podcast Network.

[1:26:13] Eli Tokash: Next in line to take the bow is Tessie Tokash, who edits the audio and all the visuals for this podcast. A special thanks to patrons Brian Thompson, Pat McNamara, the listeners at PCC, as well as all the other patrons for their continued support. If you're interested in becoming a patron, go to Patreon.com slash T A B. And if you enjoyed this week's episode, don't forget to subscribe on the platform that you're currently listening to this on. Also, feel free to give us a follow on Instagram at Take A Bow Podcast.

[1:26:44] Eli Tokash: Take A Bow's logo is designed by Giselle Bustos, and the music is by Nikki Torsha and Cormac Collinon. Bye everyone. Hope to see you next week.