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[0:06] Jess McInallie: Hello, I'm Jesse McInallie.

[0:08] Andrew DeWolf: And I am Andrew DeWolf.

[0:10] Brianna Jones: And I'm Brianna Jones.

[0:11] Jess McInallie: And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I tried to get Andrew and Brie to like musical theater.

[0:16] Jess McInallie: And guys, it's our 150th episode.

[0:18] Andrew DeWolf: We did it.

[0:20] Brianna Jones: We did it.

[0:21] Jess McInallie: Oh no, we're already there.

[0:22] Jess McInallie: This marks so much.

[0:24] Jess McInallie: Not even just 150th.

[0:25] Jess McInallie: It is our 50th episode since Brie has joined on.

[0:28] Jess McInallie: It is so many landmarks.

[0:30] Jess McInallie: Like a year ago, this show was so different than what it is right now.

[0:34] Jess McInallie: And a year from now it'll be so different than what it is right here.

[0:38] Jess McInallie: And I'm just so happy.

[0:39] Jess McInallie: And I want to thank you guys for going on this journey with us.

[0:42] Jess McInallie: It's been a fucking blast so far.

[0:44] Andrew DeWolf: Um it's been something alright.

[0:47] Brianna Jones: Yeah.

[0:47] Jess McInallie: Um Thanks, Andrew.

[0:52] Jess McInallie: Um, but Andrew, how are you feeling today?

[0:54] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I was just thinking about our show and how much it has changed, and I feel like uh we have to cover a show that's about how things can change very rapidly.

[1:03] Andrew DeWolf: You know, speaking of change, um, I recently moved to a place called Berlin, and it's actually pretty crazy.

[1:10] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I moved in with this gal, her name is Sally, and she just keeps going wacky.

[1:16] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, depending on which version of my story I'm gonna tell, I could either be having a three-way uh menace toile relationship with some rich guy, or I could just be neighbors to a nice old couple that want to get married.

[1:29] Andrew DeWolf: Either way, Nazis.

[1:31] Jess McInallie: Ah, yes, the Nazis.

[1:33] Jess McInallie: This week we're talking about cabaret, all of them.

[1:38] Jess McInallie: Also, Nazis will come up a lot, probably.

[1:41] Jess McInallie: Trigger warning Nazis, also abortion, uh, sexual assault, like a lot a lot of things.

[1:47] Jess McInallie: Um just get that out of the music, Brie.

[1:51] Jess McInallie: It's time for the moment you've been waiting for.

[1:59] ♪ Musical number: "Willkommen" — performed by Joel Gray ♪

[2:20] Jess McInallie: So cabaret is a musical with music by John Cander and lyrics by Fred Ebb.

[2:24] Jess McInallie: Um, booked by Joe Mastroff.

[2:27] Jess McInallie: Um, it is based on John Van Dutton's 1951 play, I Am a Camera, which was adapted from the semi-autobiographical novel Goodbye to Berlin by Anglo-American writer Christopher Isherwood.

[2:38] Jess McInallie: It premiered on November 20th, 1966 at the Broadhurst Theater.

[2:43] Jess McInallie: The show was a hit winning eight of the 1967 Tony Awards, including Best Musical Score, Director, Choreographer, and Featured Actor Awards for Joel Gray and Peg Murray.

[2:52] Jess McInallie: Um, so the plot of Cabaret is set in 1929 to 1930 Berlin during the warning days of the work Weinmar Republic as the Nazis are ascending power.

[3:03] Jess McInallie: The musical focuses on the hedonistic nightlife of the CD Kit Kat Club and revolves around an American writer Cliff Bradshaw's relations with English cabaret performer Sally Bowles.

[3:14] Jess McInallie: A subplot involves the doomed romance between German boarding house owner Freulein Schi Schneider and her elderly suitor Her Schultz, a Jewish fruit vendor.

[3:23] Andrew DeWolf: Overseas.

[3:24] Jess McInallie: Yeah, does it?

[3:26] Jess McInallie: Um overseeing the action is the master of ceremonies at the Kit Kat Club, and the club itself serves as a metaphor for ominous political developments in late Weinmar Germany.

[3:37] Jess McInallie: Alright, so this is gonna be a different episode than usual, especially because we're doing something for our 150th.

[3:43] Jess McInallie: We're gonna travel in time, and we're gonna talk about each version of the show as if it's a different show.

[3:50] Andrew DeWolf: How does that sound?

[3:52] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, there's some pretty major differences, especially if we're counting the movie.

[3:56] Andrew DeWolf: Then there's some really major differences.

[3:58] Jess McInallie: So just so you can prep for your structure.

[4:01] Jess McInallie: First we're gonna talk about the original Broadway version with Joel Gray, the original 1966-1988 production.

[4:07] Jess McInallie: Um, then we're gonna talk about the movie, then we're gonna talk about the 1998-2014 production.

[4:12] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[4:13] Jess McInallie: So get buckle those seatbelts, because we're we're diving into the world of Weimar Germany.

[4:19] Jess McInallie: Um so the first original Broadway cast.

[4:23] Jess McInallie: Um, what do you think of that first bird version, Andrew?

[4:26] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[4:27] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it's not bad.

[4:29] Andrew DeWolf: Uh there's a lot of stuff I like in it.

[4:31] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it does feel a little bit aimless in a way.

[4:35] Andrew DeWolf: Like it doesn't fully know what it's trying to say about its own subject matter, although maybe I'm just not getting out of it what I want to get out of it, and maybe that's me projecting onto it.

[4:45] Jess McInallie: What do you think?

[4:46] Jess McInallie: I mean, what did you expect when you went into this?

[4:48] Jess McInallie: Because this is the first one you watched, and you kind of went in blind.

[4:52] Andrew DeWolf: I didn't really know what to expect.

[4:53] Andrew DeWolf: I knew it was about uh like the rise of the Nazi Party and the fall of the Weimar Republic and all that.

[5:00] Andrew DeWolf: Um I didn't really know anything else about it.

[5:02] Andrew DeWolf: Um I also knew that there was a Bob Fosse version, so I was kind of expecting like like tap dancing kind of stuff, which it actually doesn't really have that much of.

[5:11] Jess McInallie: No, it's not a very dancy show.

[5:13] Andrew DeWolf: Um and yeah, it was it's a bit of a weird show.

[5:18] Andrew DeWolf: It's kind of um like there's a couple different plot lines, and they kind of just have very un uh anticlimactic endings to them.

[5:27] Jess McInallie: Yes.

[5:27] Andrew DeWolf: Because it almost feels like the real climax is that all of the plots became sort of irrelevant because Nazis Well, it's not the petty differences between people and all that.

[5:38] Andrew DeWolf: Um and it feels a little meandering in the first act.

[5:41] Andrew DeWolf: Um and w we're referencing our frame of reference is the 1988 Revival, which is basically a carbon copy of the night original 66 production with a few pepperings of differences.

[5:53] Jess McInallie: Um the biggest difference um in the 1966 production is the term meek site, um, which was is basically a slur for Jews, but it's said like a thousand times in the original production.

[6:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um like any time like during if you could see her instead of she wouldn't look Jewish at all.

[6:12] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[6:12] Andrew DeWolf: Is that a they make that up or is that a real slur?

[6:14] Jess McInallie: I think it's a real slur.

[6:15] Andrew DeWolf: Um and it's uh it could be equally made up, but it is uh given a catchy number right before Tomorrow Belongs to me, sung by that guy that has Cliff going and stealing stuff and getting um his stuff all over.

[6:29] Andrew DeWolf: Um there was also a few other elements like the money song was a different version of the money song, um, than would inevitably become it.

[6:38] Jess McInallie: Um and th the sixties production is mired in a lot of different kind of interpretations, but the one thing that has always remained is the performance of Joel Gray as the MC, and that has kind of stood the test of time both as a performance as well as it being like cemented into the film later.

[6:57] Jess McInallie: And what did you think of that?

[6:59] Andrew DeWolf: And what do you think the MC represents in the sixties production?

[7:01] Andrew DeWolf: The MC is a really interesting, I don't even know if you can call him a character.

[7:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um, he kind of represents the culture, and um he has a couple songs that are like directly related to what's happening in the actual plot of each of their like the other stories, but it's always framed as just this cabaret number, I guess.

[7:23] Andrew DeWolf: Um what he represents, I'm not really fully sure.

[7:27] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, my first go-to would be he represents the the German culture at that time because he gets progressively and progressively more like by the end of it, he's singing songs about that are just anti-Jewish, um, and all of that.

[7:41] Jess McInallie: So yes, but is that like just to appease the Nazi regime, or is that kind of like in different versions, there is different interpretations of what the MC is supposed to represent, and we'll get into that later.

[7:52] Jess McInallie: Um what did you think of the characters that were like our main lovers?

[7:57] Andrew DeWolf: Um, both Sally and Cliff, and then um the older lovers.

[8:01] Andrew DeWolf: I find Cliff and Sally to be kind of a bland story.

[8:05] Andrew DeWolf: It's just very it's like it's just the traditional love story in a way.

[8:09] Andrew DeWolf: I know that they do some different stuff, and you know, there's the dark ending, of course, which does flip it by the end.

[8:16] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but the other story between the older couple is much more relevant to what's happening like in the wider world at the time.

[8:25] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and it feels more like it has more of a point because of that, like within the story itself.

[8:30] Andrew DeWolf: Like Sally and Cliff feel doomed by their premise alone.

[8:33] Andrew DeWolf: This kind of normal guy ending up with this kind of like sh this kind of crass, vulgar woman.

[8:39] Andrew DeWolf: They call her uh a a real flapper, I believe they call her in the in this version.

[8:44] Jess McInallie: Yeah, she's kind of a gross, gross girl that you you you don't want to get pregnant, and then he gets her pregnant.

[8:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and it's just like, well, this pretty much has one real way it can go, and it kind of goes that way, and it's just like, okay, you know, but the it's kind of contrasted with this love story that is more a hundred percent traditional.

[9:04] Andrew DeWolf: It's like But the it's like a love story made to work.

[9:08] Andrew DeWolf: It's like these two people that were made to be in love with each other, and they become doomed by the world around them.

[9:14] Andrew DeWolf: They are not doomed from the get-go.

[9:16] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[9:16] Andrew DeWolf: And I feel like their story is much more powerful to me, and I don't know why necessarily, because I haven't analyzed that of myself, so I I think it's just because that's more innocent, and then it becomes more sinister.

[9:28] Andrew DeWolf: Like you it almost tricks you into thinking that they're the safe couple while Sally and Cliff are the kind of like, oh, they're the ones that's gonna follow.

[9:37] Jess McInallie: Yeah, which is why it feels like their story is more like Cliff and Sally is more like this is the story you usually see, because it's like a uh, oh man, they're not gonna work, and you expect by the end it's like, oh, now they're gonna work, and then you have the secondary couple that's like, oh, they're just guaranteed to work.

[9:52] Andrew DeWolf: I mean.

[9:53] Andrew DeWolf: So we have Sally and Cliff and those two, and then we have a third character that is basically person that Cliff is giving English lessons to, who pops in every now and then and is revealed to be like be a Nazi, more or less.

[10:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he's um not very good guy.

[10:10] Andrew DeWolf: Snuck in under the radar, but for the first half that they go out of your way to show him as this goofy kind of normal every man, which is what makes it more insidious when it turns out your neighbors, your friends, the people you know are all part of this horrible fascist party.

[10:26] Jess McInallie: Well, I mean, I think the most powerful scene in the entire thing is they have the party for the um the older couple, and I guess he just I forget exactly how it happens, but he finds out that um the man is Jewish, um, because one of the other party guests mentions it by chance or something like that, and then he's like, Oh, I'm out of here.

[10:44] Jess McInallie: Like I can't support this.

[10:46] Jess McInallie: And basically threatens her, like, hey, I will you're not gonna own your building anymore if you marry this Jew.

[10:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and then um instead of like the whole part the whole like n the party guests all turning against him, uh, someone just starts singing him a song, and it's the like tomorrow belongs to us, which is like the the Nazi anti-evil Adelweiss.

[11:08] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[11:09] Andrew DeWolf: So, and then the whole everyone at the party basically starts singing that song.

[11:13] Andrew DeWolf: Except for our four lovers.

[11:14] Andrew DeWolf: Our four lovers are the only ones that are not indoctrinated into the Nazism, and they realize, oh shit, everyone else is.

[11:21] Jess McInallie: Yeah, so that's like a really I don't know about maybe powerful is the wrong word, but like scary.

[11:27] Jess McInallie: Like it's it's it's it is like the message of the show, if if there is a message to the show.

[11:33] Andrew DeWolf: And that's how they end act one.

[11:35] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[11:35] Andrew DeWolf: And then you come into act two and all the things kinda that's why I think act two kind of falters.

[11:40] Andrew DeWolf: Everything kind of just happens the way you expect it to.

[11:44] Jess McInallie: Like after that act one gut punch.

[11:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[11:46] Andrew DeWolf: I almost feel like that part should have been closer to the end, you know.

[11:51] Jess McInallie: Okay, Mr. Fosse.

[11:52] Andrew DeWolf: I I don't know.

[11:54] Andrew DeWolf: I the the issue that I have is by the end of it, they didn't really like they don't really follow through, you know.

[12:01] Andrew DeWolf: Like at the very end, it doesn't end with like the Nazis come and mess everything up in the way that you would expect them to, I guess.

[12:09] Andrew DeWolf: It's much more insidious and like in the background.

[12:12] Andrew DeWolf: And also, remember, this was like 20, 30-ish years removed from the Nazi.

[12:18] Jess McInallie: It's not very long afterwards.

[12:20] Andrew DeWolf: No, like let's imagine it's as removed from it as we are from like the 90s currently.

[12:26] Andrew DeWolf: So having any representation of the Nazi rise and how scary it was on Broadway is pretty effective.

[12:33] Jess McInallie: No, I I like it and I like the um I mean I like the message and everything, and I think it's incredibly timely.

[12:41] Andrew DeWolf: Sadly.

[12:41] Jess McInallie: Um What do you think of Joel Gray's performance as the MC in this production, the version you watched?

[12:47] Andrew DeWolf: He does really well.

[12:48] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, he's in he is he in the movie as well, or is he?

[12:51] Jess McInallie: Yes, he was brought in for the movie.

[12:53] Jess McInallie: He is one of like four actors in the world that has both won the Tony and the Oscar for the same performance as the same role.

[13:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, I think he does a very good job.

[13:02] Andrew DeWolf: I think the MC's role is a strange role, and to pull it off, you have to have a certain performing style that he does really well.

[13:11] Jess McInallie: I don't know.

[13:11] Jess McInallie: Um, yeah, and I guess it's time since we kind of covered that really well and uh in a brief time.

[13:18] Jess McInallie: I think we should look at the previews for the original 1966 production.

[13:23] Jess McInallie: Um Bree, do you mind if I take this one?

[13:27] Brianna Jones: Because this is probably one of the most insane reviews I've ever seen.

[13:32] Jess McInallie: Yeah, go ahead, it's on you.

[13:34] Jess McInallie: Did you read it?

[13:35] Brianna Jones: Oh no.

[13:35] Jess McInallie: Yeah, I did.

[13:36] Jess McInallie: Oh my god.

[13:37] Brianna Jones: Oh no.

[13:38] Jess McInallie: Um, so this is from Walter Kerr of the New York Times on the uh 1966 production.

[13:45] Jess McInallie: And I know at first you're gonna be like, oh, it's fine, and then it just takes a turn.

[13:50] Brianna Jones: Oh boy.

[13:51] Jess McInallie: So this is from Walter Kerr.

[13:53] Jess McInallie: Cabaret is a stunning musical with a one wild wrong note.

[13:57] Jess McInallie: I think you'd be wise to go to it first and argue about the startling slip later.

[14:03] Jess McInallie: Master of ceremonies, Joel Gray is cheerful, charming, soulless, and conspiratorially wicked, in a pink vest with sunburnt eyes gleaming out over a cold cream face.

[14:14] Andrew DeWolf: He is the silencer of bad dreams, the gleeful puppet of pretended joy, sin on a string. We are now left with the evening's single and all too obvious mistake. One of the cabaret tables is empty. The table reserved for the heroine Sally Bowles. Sally Bowles, as the narrative has it, is a faye, fetching, far-out lassie with a head full of driftwood and a heart she'd rather break than shackle. She is a temperament. She needs a temperament to play her. Producer director Hal Prince, in a totally uncharacteristic lapse of judgment, has miscast a pretty but essentially flavorless ingenue, Jill Haworth, in the role. She is trim but neutral, a profile rather than a person, and given the difficult things Cabaret is trying to do, she is a damaging presence with no more to do in the show than wait than her weight and mascara.

The style is there, though driven like glistening nails into musical numbers. I think you'll find they make up for what's missing. Jesus does not like her. He took a turn to insulting one actress in the entire production. And that is the New York Times review from 1966 of this timeless musical still being performed today. Why focus on that? Fuck did she know. Was she really that bad? And she was fine. I've listened to the recording. She's fine. I also feel like his interpretation of the Master of Ceremonies is a bit strange, but I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

[15:46] Brianna Jones: What do you mean? Please elaborate.

[15:49] Andrew DeWolf: The silencer of bad dreams, the gleeful puppet of pretended joy. I don't like, is that what he is?

[15:55] Brianna Jones: I mean, it's not not what he is. I mean, I think in every version, the MC represents something different, to be honest.

[16:02] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Um, yeah, I mean, I don't think spending most of your review shitting on one actor or actress is the proper way to use your publication time. I mean, imagine if you give like a glowing review and then you're like, but fuck that Maggie Gyllenhaal, Jesus Christ.

[16:18] Brianna Jones: Yeah, it's just, I mean, I suppose a review can be used to mention that like a particular performance wasn't good.

[16:26] Andrew DeWolf: Most of the review is focused on her.

[16:28] Brianna Jones: Yeah, you'd think it would be like one sentence at least.

[16:32] Andrew DeWolf: And then, like the direct insults, like worth no more to the show than her weight and mascara. Like, holy crap, what do you what?

[16:40] Brianna Jones: I think it's time that we cancel Walter Kerr.

[16:43] Andrew DeWolf: Is he even still alive?

[16:45] Brianna Jones: No.

[16:45] Andrew DeWolf: No.

[16:45] Brianna Jones: Yeah, okay. He's cancelled. Um, yeah, um, how about we go through time? We're gonna jump in our time machine to 1972. We're gonna talk about the movie adaptation.

[17:01] Andrew DeWolf: Put down the knitting, the book, and the broom. It's time for a holiday. Life is a cabaret, old chum. Come to the cabaret. Come taste the wine. Come hear the band. Come blow your horn, start celebrating right this way. Your table's waiting. What good's omitting some prophet of doom to wipe every smile away. Mike P is a cabaret, old chum. So come to the cabaret.

[17:44] Andrew DeWolf: So in 1972, um, Bob Fosse was tapped to direct and choreograph a movie version of the musical Cabaret starring Liza Minnelli, Michael York, and Joel Grey. He really wanted to tap back into the original book as opposed to the screenplay or to as opposed to the script of the original musical, so he kind of wanted a mix between the original novel and the screenplay. So he tore the entire film apart and made it his own and added his own touches. Bree, I am so flipping curious as to your opinion on this. Because you did not watch the musical beforehand, unlike me and Andrew. So as someone just walking in as a film watcher, what'd you think?

[18:27] Brianna Jones: So I enjoyed the film, but I would say it's more, I guess, abstract at times and left up to the viewer to interpret what's going on. But I enjoyed it very much. Um, there's a lot of things that I'm learning that are very different. Um, and that it seems to be very loosely based on Cabaret. It's kind of crazy.

[18:52] Andrew DeWolf: If you could do your best to describe the specific plot points in the movie, please do.

[18:58] Brianna Jones: Yeah. Okay, so we open up in this like very extravagant cabaret shot. Um, and then so you have Sally who is a part of the cabaret. She's a singer, dancer, and she aspires to be an actress. And this is kind of where you start off in the movie, and then it's the shots of this cabaret dancer kind of juxtaposed with his name is Brian and not Cliff in the movie, and um he's stepping off a train and walking down the streets. He ends up living at a boarding house with her, I believe, or he lives in like the same space as her.

[19:39] Andrew DeWolf: Like the same apartment or something.

[19:40] Brianna Jones: Yeah, the same apartment. Um, she tries to seduce him, but he says, like, no, it's never worked out with women before in my life. Um, I would rather us be friends. And so they end up being good friends. Um, and then he consoles her at one point in time, and they become lovers. And then they meet this guy named Maximilian.

[20:01] Andrew DeWolf: Maximilian.

[20:01] Brianna Jones: And that's they did. They met Max. And um, so he's all bangs. They yeah, he seemed interested in Sally, but then all of a sudden they're kind of all together. But this is all left up for your interpretation because like at one point in time you have Max and Brian having lunch, and they are like looking at each other, and just that look is like, oh, they're fucking like, oh, they're fucking. And he buys them both like extremely extravagant gifts.

[20:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, like uh Sally gets a fur coat and Brian gets like a gold cigarette holder.

[20:35] Brianna Jones: But in that, and there's a scene when Max and Brian are having drinks, and then that's when they play, oh god, the Nazi song.

[20:45] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Tomorrow belongs to me.

[20:47] Brianna Jones: Tomorrow belongs to me. Um, and that's when I kind of realized that I'm like, oh, like they are very much outside of this like world of like Nazi propaganda and what is going on. Oh, and then Max leaves. Max just dips, he's got family things to do, and then there's another club.

[21:04] Andrew DeWolf: He leaves the—I've decided to leave the movie.

[21:06] Brianna Jones: He's leaving literally leaves the movie. Bye. My little sexual adventure with you leads on I am exiting the picture.

[21:15] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? I mean, I do like what they did with the Maximilian character in a way.

[21:20] Brianna Jones: Yeah. Because it's implied that he is basically supporting the Nazis because he doesn't like communists, and he's like, oh, they'll take care of the communists for me. And then the Nazis actually start to take power, and he's like, oh shit, these guys suck. Bye.

[21:34] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. But then it comes like it comes to find out that Max is really having or Brian is actually having sex with Max, and so is Sally, but they like they weren't aware that they were both doing that. Um and then so the relationship, you know, goes through a couple rough patches, and they end up getting like they smooth it out.

[21:47] Brianna Jones: They smooth it out. It works out. I stopped here with my girlfriend while I was watching this, and I was like, hey, do you think our relationship would have been able to survive that? She's like, you know, if it was just one of us, no, but if it was both of us.

[22:08] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I mean, what do you even say? You're both cheating on each other with the same person.

[22:13] Brianna Jones: They just rekindle the relationship like just like that. Like he gets beat up by a Nazi, and then like they're back together, like literally the same day. But that it reminds me, have you guys ever watched that documentary about how there was a husband and wife, and there was like a church guy that hung around all the time and he had a weird obsession with their daughter?

[22:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, yes.

[22:32] Brianna Jones: But come to find out they were both fucking this guy, and then he took off with his daughter to Mexico. Because they were latter-day saints and they were afraid to rat this guy out because they both had sex with him. They're like, oh, if we'll be excommunicated for the church, might as well let him take our daughter to Mexico.

[22:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, the Mormons don't allow polygamy.

[22:51] Brianna Jones: But like, I just seduced them.

[22:59] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Back to the plot point. We gotta get back to that other couple.

[23:03] Brianna Jones: Okay, other couple. There's another couple, and I know you guys mentioned there was like an older couple and then another couple. They're something's going on with other couples. This couple, um, rich Jewish woman, and then the gentleman is a Jew, but he is pretending to be a Protestant. Um, and he doesn't and like he wants to marry this girl, but she thinks he's not a Jew, but he really is a Jew, but he doesn't want other people to know he's a Jew. Uh, they end up getting married. He like goes to her house and like is like, I'm a Jew, marry me. And they end up getting married. And then that's kind of the it for them. It's like they tried to replace the original older couple thing, but they didn't realize that like no point.

It was like the whole reason that made any sense is because of the whole Nazi thing, but then they didn't they have these and they don't tie the Nazis in at all. It's like okay, well, yeah, which is really interesting because it's like I don't know, she was a she was a came from a wealthy Jewish family, and I feel like like with all this Nazi, like as they're arising to power, like it's really interesting.

[24:06] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I mean, there's a part in the stage show where like literally their windows get broken.

[24:10] Brianna Jones: Yeah, like nothing brick through the window, like and you know, like that is like the point of the show. And then in this one, they're just like they kill her dog.

[24:19] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, they kill her dog.

[24:20] Brianna Jones: Yeah, they do do that. But again, it's like left up to your interpretation because I was like, oh, because she turned down um what's his name? What is his name in the in the movie?

[24:31] Andrew DeWolf: It's some boring ass name like Fritz.

[24:31] Brianna Jones: Because it's Fritz and Natalia and Natalia. Yeah, so this was right after Natalia had turned down Fritz, and I was like, oh, maybe Fritz killed her dog like out of anger. But then I like totally remembered that there's Nazis in the film, and I was like, oh, that's a possibility too. But again, it is left up in the film. Much more explicit in the stage show. There's no interpretation.

[24:56] Andrew DeWolf: Very much left up to your interpretation.

[24:59] Brianna Jones: Um, and then we have a couple more plot points, right? Um, and then Brian is like, let's get married. And then Sally has an abortion. Um, there's a scene where I feel like the MC, I don't know what his name is in the movie.

[25:20] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, it's just the MC.

[25:21] Brianna Jones: Joel Grey plays the same actor from the Broadway show. They show a scene, and I'm like, did he sexually assault her? And like that was her that was his baby, and that's why she aborted the baby. I think the implication by that sexual assault is that that is fame and fortune kind of gripping her. The representation of like that, like pulling her away from like the family life that she wanted. It's the stage life that calls back to her.

[25:49] Andrew DeWolf: That would make sense.

[25:50] Brianna Jones: I mean, okay, because he is kind of like embracing her, but in a really weird.

[25:54] Andrew DeWolf: The MC is like not a real person, and I don't think you should interpret him as such.

[25:58] Brianna Jones: Yeah, he is not a human being that exists in the world.

[26:01] Andrew DeWolf: Interesting.

[26:02] Brianna Jones: Okay. Yeah, I can see that. That makes sense. And last and final point, uh, they kind of just say goodbye to each other, and Brian leaves.

[26:10] Andrew DeWolf: I hate that.

[26:11] Brianna Jones: I hated that. They shake hands and he leaves, and that's it.

[26:14] Andrew DeWolf: Ooh, okay. Alright, alright. And you I mean, there is also the ending where the MC is now performing for an audience of all Nazis.

[26:22] Brianna Jones: Yes. Which is that's they do do something cool in the movie that they don't do in either of the stage shows, which is show the like one Nazi getting kicked out of the club really early on, and then by the end of it, the whole audience is just Nazis.

[26:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that is really cool. Well, kind of. I mean not cool, but it's like it tells the story in a way that is interesting.

[26:44] Brianna Jones: Alright. So Bob Fosse entered into this world of cabaret. Really I don't I don't know if he didn't like the musical, but it or if he just wanted to leave his own impression. But he really kind of was like, I'm gonna shove my hand in this, I'm gonna make it my own. Cut out all the songs that aren't like on stage. Anything that's not on stage or get rid of it. Most of them. Yes. And then he's like, Candor Ebb, write me like five new songs to give to Liza Minnelli. And they wrote a couple new ones, and they took a song that they had already in their trunk that they gave to an actress called Kate Ballard, maybe this time, and made it her I Want song, which has become very iconic in its own way. And I don't know.

And the other characters that we mentioned, Fritz and Natalia and Max, were all pulled from I Am a Camera, but did not appear in Goodbye to Berlin. Oh no, sorry. They pulled it back pulled it from Goodbye to Berlin, but did not appear in Cabaret or I Am a Camera. So we went back to the original Isherwood novel. But that's all for not because Isherwood fucking hated this movie. Isherwood did not like this movie, nor did he appreciate the interpretation of it. He's like, yeah, it's cool that Brian's gay and that he's British like me, but his gayness is thought seen more as a punchline of a joke and a character flaw than it is like a part of who he is.

[28:03] Brianna Jones: Is he gay or bisexual?

[28:05] Andrew DeWolf: I think bisexual is more the way it was. And so Bree, you like the film as a film, and I appreciate that, and that's how most of the world felt, and it has become iconic in its own way. It won best director, one best actress, one best supporting or best, yeah, best supporting actor, all those wonderful awards.

[28:23] Andrew DeWolf: Um, against the godfather of all things.

[28:26] Jess McInallie: Like it wasn't uh it wasn't a light year.

[28:29] Andrew DeWolf: Do you do you think it deserved it, Jess?

[28:32] Jess McInallie: No. I think Liza and Joel deserve their awards. I do not think Bob Fosse deserved best director.

[28:38] Andrew DeWolf: You think Godfather was better than this?

[28:40] Jess McInallie: Yeah. And I love musicals. You you know me. I feel like this almost doesn't qualify as like a true musical, though, because they cut everything that happens plot-wise.

[28:50] Jess McInallie: It's all the uh like side songs now, and that's it. The only time you ever really hear singing is in the cabaret like itself, er at I don't what's the bar's name?

[29:01] Andrew DeWolf: Kit Kat Club.

[29:02] Jess McInallie: Kit Kat Club is there at the Kit Kat Club. Or you've got the Nazi scene, and that was it. And Sally's the only one who really sings at Sally's M CMC.

[29:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[29:13] Jess McInallie: So I say it's more of like, I don't know, a m a movie with lots of music, like song, lots of songs. I feel like I I said something like movies with music is not the same as a musical at one point.

[29:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but those dance numbers, every single one of those Fosse choreographed edited numbers are so incredible and so well done. And it wish makes me wish that there were more of them, you know, like this was an actual musical.

[29:38] Jess McInallie: Because my god, every scene where it's just Liza Minelli and Michael York just chatting about shit, I could give a fuck and a half about what was going on here. They're just meandering improvisation.

[29:47] Jess McInallie: And like, there's some stuff with the Maximilian character that's like mildly interesting, but really I don't think his addition is necessary, and I think I would have been much happier if they had just included the older couple of uh I forget the character's names, but uh Frolline and Air.

[30:06] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that that's just literally woman and man.

[30:08] Jess McInallie: It's Roy Line, Schneider and Air Schmidt.

[30:10] Andrew DeWolf: There you go. Man, woman, Schneider, and Man Schmidt.

[30:14] Jess McInallie: There you go. That almost that's almost like a John Smith and uh Mary Sue or something names.

[30:21] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. I mean, what do we think about Sally in this version?

[30:24] Jess McInallie: Um Sally is significantly different than in the stage version.

[30:29] Jess McInallie: I I don't know. I found her a little bit annoying.

[30:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[30:32] Jess McInallie: Um why though?

[30:35] Jess McInallie: Strangely, I feel like her agency is removed a ton because it's a lot of it is up to like her being flighty. Um, and it's a deconstruction of the manic pixie dream girl trope, which is interesting in and of itself, especially at the time it was made.

[30:48] Jess McInallie: But I feel like instead of it trying to be a character, it's Bob Fosse trying to portray the woman that he finds the most interesting, whether or not it suits the story or not.

[30:58] Jess McInallie: I mean, I couldn't help but think that this is just like this entire movie, Bob Fosse was just like, This is the most attractive a woman could possibly be. I'm gonna make a movie about that. Screw everything else about this show.

[31:10] Jess McInallie: I do not care. I just want this woman to be the lead in the end. I want her to be the coolest, most iconic part of this movie.

[31:17] Jess McInallie: Like he And then you also find out that he also wanted basically the other part that only sings, so he wanted everything to be about himself as the MC and her.

[31:29] Jess McInallie: And it's just it just feels like in in knowing like having seen the Bob Fosse like show and all that, and knowing what I know about him.

[31:37] Jess McInallie: Like, like did he just want to fuck Liza Minelli or whatever?

[31:40] Andrew DeWolf: I'm sure he did.

[31:41] Jess McInallie: I'm sure he fucked and he fucked everything that moved. Um that's this whole show.

[31:45] Jess McInallie: That's the whole movie. So I don't know a ton about Bob Fosse. But I would say that but it's cool that she's the lead.

[31:52] Jess McInallie: Like you don't get a lot of female leads that are like, fuck it, I'm gonna go get an abortion because that's what I want to do with my life, or and like and y yes, go to fame and fortune.

[32:03] Jess McInallie: But if that's what she wanted and that's what she's been asking for this entire time, I mean that's pretty standout, like, especially for the time it was created.

[32:11] Andrew DeWolf: I think I just feel like it misses the point of the show cabaret, though.

[32:15] Jess McInallie: Because like, yeah, she does all this stuff or whatever, but it has literally nothing to do with the rise of fascism in Germany.

[32:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[32:22] Jess McInallie: But again, it is loosely based on the stage show.

[32:26] Andrew DeWolf: Let's very loosely.

[32:27] Jess McInallie: I think the issues I have here, and m Brie, it's it's gonna be an interesting way to say it.

[32:33] Jess McInallie: And like you didn't see the musical, which is why I love this discussion, and I'm like in heaven right now. This is like everything I wanted to be in more.

[32:40] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but imagine all the actions that she took. I'm gonna go get an abortion, I'm gonna do that.

[32:45] Jess McInallie: But it also is kind of more urgent. Um more because of a choice being thrust upon her.

[32:53] Jess McInallie: Um so this is more of like a kind of things happen slice of life kind of story, and uh the reason why she wants to get the abortion in the movie is unclear, and we see like the pull of fame driving her there.

[33:08] Jess McInallie: In the musical, the rise of Nazism is getting so bad, and basically Cliff is forcing her to go to America with him to escape the Nazi regime.

[33:16] Jess McInallie: And she's like, I don't wanna do that. That I I I like it here. I'm getting my old job back at the Kit Kat Club.

[33:22] Jess McInallie: I could make a deal of himself. He's like, No, I don't care. And she's like, Well, fuck you. I'm gonna get rid of the only reason why you wanna be with me, and she gets the abortion for that reason.

[33:32] Jess McInallie: Whereas in the movie, she just kind of gets it.

[33:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, like I said, like, I mean, the movie is very much up for interpretation.

[33:40] Jess McInallie: Yeah. I also feel like in the movie, they don't tie in any, like the Nazi stuff just doesn't need to be there.

[33:47] Andrew DeWolf: And I know I said that I felt like they did some of it better.

[33:49] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[33:50] Jess McInallie: But it just feels like it it doesn't tie into the main plot at all because you remove the two characters that tie in the most and you replace them with characters that should tie into it, but you don't.

[34:00] Andrew DeWolf: You know?

[34:00] Jess McInallie: So it's like and then, of course, removing even the characters you have, the one connection they had of like he wants to get out because of the Nazis is like kind of gone.

[34:09] Jess McInallie: It's like, what is why even do the it's like two different things happening at the same time? Just pick one.

[34:15] Andrew DeWolf: Just do a story where this girl wants to be an actress and she meets a guy and then she doesn't want to be with him anymore, gets an abortion or whatever.

[34:23] Jess McInallie: And and that's the story. Why have the Nazis? Why are they there?

[34:26] Jess McInallie: I feel like that's what he decided to do. And the Nazis are just kind of window dressing.

[34:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the Nazis are just like, well, it's cabaret. If I don't have them there at all, then people are gonna be like, what the heck?

[34:37] Jess McInallie: Does Bob Fosse do that a lot?

[34:38] Andrew DeWolf: Bob Fosse I can't wait till we do all that jazz, and I'm gonna force Bree to watch that.

[34:44] Jess McInallie: Please, now I want to know.

[34:46] Jess McInallie: Um, because that is his basically self-insert fan fiction about his own life.

[34:51] Andrew DeWolf: Um like Pippin and whatever.

[34:55] Jess McInallie: Um the closest thing, he was kind of hired to do this because Hal Prince did the original stage version.

[35:01] Jess McInallie: They were making a movie, he had just made a flop and he's like begging people to hire him.

[35:05] Jess McInallie: And he steps in and he decides, I'm gonna tear this apart, make it my own, make my own steps.

[35:11] Jess McInallie: Um, and the self-insert he wanted to do, as Andrew alluded to earlier, he didn't want Joel Gray.

[35:17] Andrew DeWolf: He did not want Joel Gray as the MC.

[35:19] Jess McInallie: He Even though he won awards for his performance.

[35:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he was well, he didn't bring anything else from the musical in except Joel Gray.

[35:26] Jess McInallie: Um, and you know you had to have the MC in this, or else it's not cabaret.

[35:30] Jess McInallie: And basically he's like, I don't want him. And the studio's like, well, you gotta have him, and he's like, It's either Joel Gray or me.

[35:35] Andrew DeWolf: And they're like, Well, fuck it, we're saying Joel Gray.

[35:37] Jess McInallie: And then he's like, Okay, fine.

[35:39] Jess McInallie: And then he was so Joel Gray posit, like, I'm pretty sure he wanted to play the MC himself and just kind of wanted to like make it look like he couldn't find the right person and then step in himself.

[35:50] Jess McInallie: Um, and then the first edit of the film, which was delivered to producers as a quote, final cut, um, the MC did not show up at all.

[35:58] Andrew DeWolf: Fosse had just cut him out, which I don't even see this film working without the MC in it.

[36:04] Jess McInallie: There's no songs. There's no songs at all, right?

[36:07] Andrew DeWolf: Except for the the Nazi song, I guess.

[36:10] Jess McInallie: That's the only song you want in the whole show.

[36:15] Andrew DeWolf: Doesn't the MC show up in those?

[36:17] Jess McInallie: No, um, those are her two solos.

[36:19] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[36:19] Jess McInallie: I thought he was like on stage for some of that, but he introduces her for one of them.

[36:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, he introduces her, but you could cut that easily.

[36:26] Jess McInallie: Um, but apparently producers watch that and they're like, We aren't releasing this, are you stupid?

[36:31] Andrew DeWolf: Of course he did that.

[36:32] Jess McInallie: I don't know. Bob Fosse just feels like a bad guy to me.

[36:36] Andrew DeWolf: And I don't know. I don't like him.

[36:37] Jess McInallie: I'm looking into him, starting not to like him.

[36:41] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so also the the girl character making her story a like I want to be famous thing.

[36:48] Jess McInallie: Isn't that just another self-insert by him?

[36:50] Andrew DeWolf: Isn't that his story?

[36:52] Jess McInallie: I mean, his was like, I want to be the best or nothing.

[36:54] Jess McInallie: And her the thing that bothers me a lot about this specific version of Sally Bowles is her idea of fame.

[37:03] Jess McInallie: I don't even know what it is.

[37:04] Jess McInallie: Whereas the Sally Bowles of the stage version, she's like, I just like getting applause and being up there and being loved for a couple.

[37:10] Jess McInallie: Like, she has no like idealization of like I'm gonna be the most famous thing.

[37:14] Jess McInallie: She's like, I just like being on stage and being liked.

[37:16] Andrew DeWolf: And like the movie, the movie version of Sally wants to be a movie star.

[37:21] Jess McInallie: Like right.

[37:22] Jess McInallie: That's why sh that's part of the reason why she's dating the rich guy.

[37:24] Andrew DeWolf: She's like, oh, he's gonna get me into movies.

[37:27] Jess McInallie: Yeah, and she wants to make something of herself so she can be like, screw you, dad.

[37:31] Jess McInallie: Her dad doesn't even show up as a character in the musical, which is also uh that was a weird little subplot we had in there.

[37:38] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[37:38] Jess McInallie: In the movie.

[37:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[37:40] Jess McInallie: Um, so how about we take a look at some reviews of the movie?

[37:47] Brianna Jones: Bree, do you want to read this one?

[37:49] Brianna Jones: Yes, I do. Roger Greenspan of the New York Times said of the 1972 film Cabaret is not so much a movie musical as it is a movie with a lot of music in it.

[38:01] Jess McInallie: I think we can all agree.

[38:03] Brianna Jones: Um, several numbers from the Broadway show have been dropped, and some new and better ones added by John Kander and Fred Ebb.

[38:11] Jess McInallie: Kander, yep.

[38:17] Brianna Jones: The original composer and lyricist.

[38:20] Jess McInallie: Uh oh.

[38:23] Brianna Jones: Uh um, okay, so the original uh composer and lyricist, and all for Miss Minelli.

[38:31] Jess McInallie: Thus, the film has a musical part and a non-musical part, except for Miss Minelli.

[38:36] Brianna Jones: None of the major characters sing.

[38:38] Jess McInallie: And if you add this to it, the juxtaposition of private lives and public history inherit in the scheme of the Berlin stories, you come up with a structure of extraordinary mechanical complexity.

[38:50] Brianna Jones: Bossey makes mistakes, partly because his camera is a more potent instrument than he realizes, but he also makes discoveries, and cabaret is one of those immensely gratifying, imperfect works in which from beginning to end you can literally feel a movie coming to life.

[39:06] Jess McInallie: Everybody in Cabaret is very fine and meticulously chosen for type, down to the last weary, I'm gonna change this cross dresser, and to the least of the bland, blonde, open face Nazis in the background.

[39:21] Brianna Jones: As for Miss Minelli, she is sometimes wrong in the details of her role, but so magnificently right for the film as a whole that I should prefer not to imagine it without her.

[39:47] Jess McInallie: Nelisa Minelli is the most iconic thing about this movie.

[39:51] Andrew DeWolf: I would agree. I think this movie wouldn't have worked if you had cast anyone else in this role.

[39:56] Jess McInallie: So, Jess, I mentioned before in our previous episode was uh footloose.

[40:01] Andrew DeWolf: Um did you catch the uh Did you catch the you know connection between those two?

[40:07] Jess McInallie: No.

[40:07] Andrew DeWolf: Uh they both scream at trains.

[40:16] Jess McInallie: Oh my god.

[40:17] Andrew DeWolf: He really didn't watch Footloose, did you?

[40:20] Jess McInallie: I did, I did, I just don't remember most of it.

[40:23] Andrew DeWolf: There's two scenes where they yell at trains, and then this one has one, so I forgot about it in cabaret, if you want the honest answer.

[40:30] Jess McInallie: I did too.

[40:31] Andrew DeWolf: It isn't cabaret.

[40:32] Jess McInallie: She she screams at the train and she begs the other guy to scream at train for the train.

[40:36] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I remember it now that you brought it up.

[40:38] Jess McInallie: It's like it's and that's that's the connection between cabaret and footloose, the high school production that we watch.

[40:45] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's funny in cabaret because he's like, No, I I could never do that.

[40:49] Andrew DeWolf: Like I can't scream at a train, and then he does it.

[40:52] Jess McInallie: But it was very well I like when he does it though, he's just like, oh in this movie, I do think the MC is the most demonic he has ever been and the most outwardly evil in any representation.

[41:11] Jess McInallie: Well, in this one especially, I think he literally represents the German people in a way.

[41:16] Jess McInallie: And because by the end of it, he is out and out just performing directly to Nazis, and that's his show.

[41:22] Jess McInallie: And he says goodnight to them and turns around and that's what they are.

[41:25] Jess McInallie: And he's singing the song about beauty and um how it's he should be able to love whoever he wants.

[41:32] Jess McInallie: He's like, even if she's Jewish or something like that.

[41:35] Andrew DeWolf: She wouldn't look Jewish at all.

[41:38] Jess McInallie: That one, that's what it is.

[41:39] Jess McInallie: It is that is anti-Semitic, obviously, because it's the the ape suit.

[41:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[41:44] Jess McInallie: And then, you know.

[41:45] Jess McInallie: But the thing is that isn't that is in the state show as well, but it's a different delivery.

[41:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[41:51] Jess McInallie: What is it in the state show?

[41:52] Jess McInallie: Like, it's almost the same identical scene, s identical song, but it's almost like he's making fun of the Nazis.

[41:59] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[41:59] Jess McInallie: Like that's how it reads.

[42:00] Jess McInallie: Whereas in the movie, he's definitely performing to them.

[42:04] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[42:05] Jess McInallie: Yes.

[42:05] Jess McInallie: And full for them.

[42:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[42:08] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[42:08] Jess McInallie: And also there's just a scene where someone's making a big decision, and we just cut to him staring directly into the camera at us, and I'm like, ah, the evil man looking at me.

[42:21] Andrew DeWolf: It means a lot.

[42:22] Jess McInallie: It means something.

[42:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[42:24] Jess McInallie: He represents something.

[42:24] Jess McInallie: I do want to tell you, I forced my girlfriend to watch all of these with me, because I wanted to watch her reaction.

[42:31] Andrew DeWolf: She had heard the outside and all that.

[42:33] Jess McInallie: Um so at the end of this one, we had finished watching the two Broadway show versions, and we ended with this.

[42:38] Brianna Jones: And she just looked at what she did to cat Sally Bowles, and she just screamed, Bob Fosse, you misogynist piece of shit.

[42:48] Brianna Jones: Like angry. Like she's like, that movie was just like sounding fury signifying nothing. Oh, Bobert Fossey. What are you what are you doing? I think she just got so attached to Sally as a character and like her ambitions, and just like seeing like her becoming an object that is filmed sexually, like just really bothered her.

[43:09] Andrew DeWolf: Where and let's talk a bit about the song Cabaret and how that was performed and its placement. I don't like its placement in this movie. What did you think of that song, Brie?

[43:19] Brianna Jones: Oh god, the song Cabaret. Yeah. And so it's right, it's right before the end. It's right after. Is it right before Brian leaves?

[43:29] Brianna Jones: It's right after Brian leaves, right before the AMC says goodbye. Honestly, it wasn't very memorable for me. I'm gonna be completely honest with you.

[43:37] Jess McInallie: So let me tell you how it's done in the musical, and you can tell me whether that placement works. So her and Cliff get into this huge fight where he's like, You'll never be an actress, you're you're terrible, and all that. Um, and then she's like, fine, and she goes off for that performance, and you see her make the decision to get an abortion while performing that song. Like, it is a discovery song for her of like, I don't want to be a wife, I want to go out like Elsie. And then we see her next, she has sold the coat and all that, and sh it's uh it it affects the story as opposed to like, hey, the story's over, here's a song. Whereas here she has a mental breakdown on stage in front of everyone where she makes this really damaging decision.

[44:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it that it sounds like there's more motive for the song in the musical versus the movie where it's like okay, so her lover just left and she just went back to life, and she just went back to the club.

[44:34] Brianna Jones: Working at the club, yeah. I thought the movie was gonna end there.

[44:37] Andrew DeWolf: It should have. Um, yeah, so let's travel in time again, my friends.

[44:42] Jess McInallie: Oh boy.

[44:45] Jess McInallie: We're going to 1998 slash 2014 because it's the same version, and we're talking about the Sam Mendez Rob Marshall revival of cabaret, starring Alan Cumming as the MC.

[44:58] ♪ Musical number: "Willkommen" — performed by Alan Cumming ♪

[45:39] Jess McInallie: This takes elements from the original original version and the movie and implements them into this brand new interpretation that I think has become the more most permanent and lasting version and the best version of the show. Andrew, what'd you think of it? And how would you describe it in comparison to the last two?

[45:57] Andrew DeWolf: I think this is probably the best one. Um I think that this one has the most um direct like message, like what it's trying to say about itself, which could be a good and a bad thing, depending on who you talk to, I suppose. I think it was a good thing. Uh it's also darker. Um, probably because that they're they're being more explicit with what they're trying to say. They had to make it darker to fit that.

[46:19] Jess McInallie: Um, but I liked it. Now, when you say they made it more explicit, how did they do so?

[46:24] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, do we just talk about the ending? I mean, okay. Um, we talked about the ending of the film, we talked about the ending of the original, and both of them, he just kind of bows and says goodnight. How does this version end, Andrew? And maybe we should just describe the MC and his presence throughout the show.

[46:39] Andrew DeWolf: And he's much more present, I would say. He shows up at times where he didn't before.

[46:44] Jess McInallie: Yes.

[46:45] Andrew DeWolf: Um, he also has a much darker appearance, like he by the end of it, he is wearing like a dark leather trench coat. Like, you know, like but throughout it, he has like this suspender that cups his balls.

[46:58] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[46:59] Andrew DeWolf: He he's got an interesting look. Uh I think it's great. But uh by the end of it, he's wearing this dark trench coat, and he does what he usually does and says goodnight or whatever, kind of, and then he takes the trench coat off, and he's wearing a concentration camp uniform with the Jewish and the homosexual badge on it, like the uh the gold star and the pink triangle. Um then the light flashes if he's been shot.

[47:24] Jess McInallie: Yeah, which is much more explicit with what it's what the show is kind of about, I suppose.

[47:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yes. Though it also is like it's a bit of a jump, and it can be seen as a bit preachy. Um because number one, the concentration camps and things that didn't happen until like 10 or 15 years after after this happened, right? So I mean I don't know. It's like a jump in time period.

[47:45] Jess McInallie: So you can see.

[47:46] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's meant to show everyone dies. Because that's basically what you would expect to happen to all these people.

[47:52] Jess McInallie: Oh, I mean, yes, but I don't know. You said someone called it Preachy, and I can kind of see it.

[47:59] Andrew DeWolf: Ben Brantley called it Preachy.

[48:01] Jess McInallie: Yeah, I can kind of see why. I think it's better though. Because I think I think it needs to be more explicit because I think some people don't get the message, you know. I can imagine people watching that Bob Fossey film and not getting any message out of it, like, wow, what a fun story about all these people that have sex. It's weird that there was Nazis at the end there, but yeah, everything else was pretty fun.

[48:22] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas this, it's like all these people that you kind of fell in love with are all destined for doom except for Cliff that got away.

[48:29] Jess McInallie: Yeah, well, yeah, and I mean that I don't know, I don't know why it's the MC necessarily, like what that's supposed to mean. I guess I haven't really looked in I haven't thought about the show enough. I mean, I watched it yesterday.

[48:40] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, what do you think the MC represents in this new version?

[48:43] Jess McInallie: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm not entirely sure. He maybe represents different things at different times in the show. I don't really know. I think he's a representation um of kind of like apathy and the dangers of apathy.

[48:57] Andrew DeWolf: Um because he's basically numbing himself. He is more of a character with an arc, and I know that's fucking strange to say, but like at the beginning, he's like this really engaged, really sexual performer and into it. And then the last time we see him in character as the MC on stage, introducing Sally, he's got track marks that are bleeding out, and he's just barely holding himself on stage singing that final I don't care much song about like whether you support the Nazis or not. And then the next time we see him after that, he is in the coat and he reveals himself in the concentration camp uniform.

[49:34] Jess McInallie: I think it it's definitely I mean, I think this one, unlike the others, has a explicit message that it does even say within the show that you have to care about politics because it will affect you.

[49:46] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[49:47] Jess McInallie: And there's even the line where Sally's like, it's just politics. Um, what's that got to do with us?

[49:52] Andrew DeWolf: Which is Yeah, yeah, which is like, well, it could have a lot to do with us. And your production that you watched had Emma Stone as the as Sally. What you how do you think she did?

[50:00] Andrew DeWolf: I think she did a pretty good performance. I I mean I think everyone did a pretty good job. And even the MC uh is that who who's playing the MC in this one?

[50:09] Jess McInallie: Alan Cummings.

[50:10] Andrew DeWolf: Alan Cumming. I think he did a very good job too.

[50:12] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[50:12] Andrew DeWolf: I think he's a bit it's a bit of a different interpretation of the character, but it's a different performance too, I think. I think he's iconic. I think he's become more iconic than Joel Gray even. I think that em most of the performances are very good. And I think if I was gonna watch another, like if I was gonna watch Cabaret again, I'd want to watch this one.

[50:30] Jess McInallie: Of all three. We gotta talk about the subplots, the Herr Schultz and Freulein, um, oh shit, what the fuck is their name?

[50:37] Andrew DeWolf: John Smith and Freuline Schneider and Air Schultz.

[50:41] Jess McInallie: Yeah, Freudline Schneider and Air Herr Schultz. Um, how do you think their subplot was handled in this?

[50:46] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I think it's got a lot more energy to it, a lot more tension throughout. I think with the higher focus on the political side of the show, their story feels even more like important than in the original. Um, and I think it's done much better. Well, not maybe not better. I like it more.

[51:06] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[51:07] Andrew DeWolf: And it was fun watching your opinion on Cabaret form as you watch these three versions where you're like, uh I'm meh on this, and you're like, I really don't like the movie, and you're like, I like this version. It was like a slow growth, and I knew it would get there eventually.

[51:21] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[51:22] Andrew DeWolf: I I mean, I like it. I think probably part of me liking it is the fact that I feel like if any show has a good political point to make right now, in this day and age, this is the one you should listen to. Apathy is not a good choice right now.

[51:34] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[51:36] Andrew DeWolf: Do you want to have your own personal opinion on this, your personal interpretation here?

[51:42] Jess McInallie: Oh, I mean, back in you saying like when I was a political apathetic idiot.

[51:47] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[51:48] Jess McInallie: Yeah. Back in like 2016, I didn't give a crap about politics, and uh look where that got me.

[51:53] Andrew DeWolf: And now look at you, a fucking socialist left-leaning liberal.

[51:58] Jess McInallie: And I know people sometimes like talk about us like you're still the guy that went when we first started the show, where you were kind of like, you know, capitalism's pretty great.

[52:07] Andrew DeWolf: It's fine, but it's definitely not the best we could do.

[52:10] Jess McInallie: No, we gotta get that democratic socialism, baby.

[52:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I mean, I'd like to see us get rid of the Republic first, but you know, either way.

[52:18] Jess McInallie: Let's just burn it all down.

[52:20] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so how about we take a look at Ben Brantley's two reviews of this production? Because the production debuted on Broadway as a revival in tw uh 1998, and then was revived, identical to the original production, even Alan Cumming coming back in 2014.

[52:34] Jess McInallie: And he had That's pretty cool.

[52:36] Andrew DeWolf: Very different opinions based uh uh between those two productions.

[52:40] Jess McInallie: Even though they were like the same?

[52:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yep.

[52:42] Jess McInallie: Maybe Ben Brantley got the message halfway through this as well.

[52:45] Andrew DeWolf: So how about Ben Brantley Shapiro makes a return, Andrew?

[52:49] Jess McInallie: Oh boy.

[52:50] Andrew DeWolf: Ben Brantley of the New York Times said of the 1998 revival production. Not exactly an upbeat way to tackle a showstopper, is it? Yet when Natasha Richardson performs the title number of cabaret in the entertaining but preachy revival of the 1966 Cander Ebb show that opened last night, you'll probably find yourself grinning in a way you seldom do at musicals these days. For what Miss Richardson does is a re is reclaim and reinvent a showbiz anthem that is familiar to as Hamlet as Hamlet's so sliloquy.

[53:20] Jess McInallie: Oh my goodness, I can't say that in that. I feel like we're all bad at talking today.

[53:23] Andrew DeWolf: Ugh. This cabaret is seedier, raunchier, and more sinister than either of the original groundbreaking Broadway version directed by Harold Prince or the 1970 movie by Bob Bob Fosse. But it is also, in the long run, less effective. Its heroine Sally Bowles. it wants like its heroine Sally Bowles, it wants nothing more than to shock. And as with Sally, the desire winds up seeming more naive than sophisticated. It just wants to shock. That's what the ending meant. It didn't have any meaning. It just wanted to shock.

[54:02] Jess McInallie: I feel like the only thing this review is missing is is uh a line where it's like, these liberals just want to call everything Nazis these days. They'll bring up Nazis anytime they can. They love Nazis. You know, something like that.

[54:14] Andrew DeWolf: Uh can we talk a little bit before we go on to the second review? Um, previously, uh in that review that I just cut out because it didn't quite fit in, um, he mentions like it's really ridiculous just how act one ends with like a swastika tattooed on the MC's ass, and I'm like, that's that's pretty brilliant, like representation in a great way to reveal the swastika in a way that's like not like bringing in the red flags in.

[54:38] Jess McInallie: I don't know. Sure, it's meant to shock, I suppose, but isn't shocking an actual thing that works?

[54:45] Andrew DeWolf: Like shock is is fine. I'm fine with shock.

[54:48] Jess McInallie: I think shock is effective. I think sometimes shock can be exactly what someone needs to uh get the message, you know?

[54:54] Andrew DeWolf: I agree.

[54:55] Jess McInallie: All right, Andrew, you gotta read the second review.

[54:57] Andrew DeWolf: It goes off the rails in the end in the way that only a Ben Brantley review can. So Oh boy. Do uh do I read it in the Shapiro voice, or do I just read it normal?

[55:08] Jess McInallie: Um, I think you'll know when to go into it.

[55:10] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Oh boy. Much of the power of cabaret lies in our being caught up in the revels to an ex such an extent that we at least occasionally forget that we're heading straight into the abyss of Hitler's Germany and the Holocaust.

[55:23] Jess McInallie: I agree with that.

[55:23] Andrew DeWolf: In Bob Fossey's 1972 movie of Cabaret, the sinister was subliminal at first, which meant that decadence felt kind of sort of divine for a while. Miss Mendez and Mr. Marshall's oh, Miss Pardon me, Mr. Mendez and Mr. Marshall's interpretation, then and now let us know that we're in hell almost as soon as we arrive in a theater that has been done up to suggest a black boit with stage side tables at which we are patrons.

[55:52] Jess McInallie: Even more than Fossey's film, the their 1998 production offered a wholesale reconception of the template set by Harold Prince's original revolutionary Broadway staging. At that same performance, I noted that the couple in front of me had taken to heart the advice of the chorus boy who says, This is Berlin. Relax, loosen up, be yourself. That couple would kiss during any number that resembled a love song. A woman who shared my table explained to me that she thought those two were newly married.

[56:23] Andrew DeWolf: That's sweet, I said.

[56:25] Jess McInallie: Her response was on point. Not really.

[56:28] Andrew DeWolf: That's how we end the review. What did that have to do with anything, Ben Brantley?

[56:34] Jess McInallie: Is this a review?

[56:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[56:36] Jess McInallie: This isn't like something from his blog where he's just posting about his dad.

[56:39] Andrew DeWolf: This is not a Facebook post.

[56:42] Jess McInallie: No, even Facebook posts have a point.

[56:45] Jess McInallie: I thought he was gonna go into like something where he felt like it's more relevant now than it used to be or anything.

[56:52] Andrew DeWolf: He just wanted to be salty and let everybody know he was single.

[56:57] Jess McInallie: Or recently divorced.

[56:59] Andrew DeWolf: I think he's gay, so either way.

[57:02] Jess McInallie: He could be recently divorced.

[57:04] Andrew DeWolf: But oh my god, like how do you how do you d fall flat on your face in a review like that?

[57:11] Jess McInallie: And the line that he's referencing, I feel like is a good line because it's like ironic.

[57:15] Andrew DeWolf: This is Berlin, relax, loosen up, be yourself.

[57:18] Jess McInallie: The joke is that in like a year you won't be able to do that, right?

[57:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean dramatic irony.

[57:25] Jess McInallie: But I guess he didn't get that.

[57:26] Andrew DeWolf: He just thought it was sweet and that he thought the couple in front of him took that to heart and kissed.

[57:31] Jess McInallie: Yeah, he could have literally just got rid of the last two sentences and after resembled a love song, he could have just put ironic and then ended it.

[57:39] Andrew DeWolf: Ironic.

[57:40] Jess McInallie: That would have been too clever for Ben Brantley.

[57:43] Andrew DeWolf: Ironic.

[57:45] Jess McInallie: Just ended it.

[57:45] Andrew DeWolf: It would have been great.

[57:47] Jess McInallie: A Jedi wouldn't teach you this story.

[57:50] Andrew DeWolf: Ben Brantley, let us edit your your oh, you you're not even working for the New York Times anymore.

[57:55] Jess McInallie: Let us play your Facebook posts.

[57:58] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[57:58] Jess McInallie: Maybe just post this on Facebook instead of into the New York Times.

[58:02] Andrew DeWolf: You know what?

[58:02] Jess McInallie: Ben Brantley, we've got twice the Twitter followers that you have.

[58:05] Andrew DeWolf: We have double your Twitter followers.

[58:07] Jess McInallie: So we we might have more sway in the theater industry than you do right now.

[58:11] Andrew DeWolf: If you think about it.

[58:13] Jess McInallie: At us.

[58:13] Andrew DeWolf: Get wrecked, kiddo.

[58:14] Jess McInallie: How's that feel?

[58:16] Andrew DeWolf: Bitch.

[58:17] Jess McInallie: Oof.

[58:18] Andrew DeWolf: Episode 150, that's the time we burn bridges.

[58:21] Jess McInallie: Boom!

[58:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we're burning this bridge, Ben Brantley.

[58:25] Jess McInallie: He was our friend before.

[58:27] Andrew DeWolf: Now we hate him.

[58:30] Jess McInallie: Hey!

[58:32] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, I would really love if someone goes through and makes a compilation of all the times we have shit on Ben Brantley and just puts them together because I would like to see how long it is.

[58:42] Jess McInallie: Yes, please.

[58:43] Andrew DeWolf: I would love to watch that compilation, and then I'd love to like watch it with someone else, and then we could kiss, like during it.

[58:51] Jess McInallie: You know?

[58:52] Andrew DeWolf: And like then I'll write a review.

[58:54] Jess McInallie: I think you guys are newly married.

[58:55] Andrew DeWolf: That's sweet, I would say.

[58:57] Jess McInallie: And and then they would respond, not really.

[58:58] Andrew DeWolf: Not really.

[58:59] Jess McInallie: Four stars.

[59:02] Andrew DeWolf: What is that even what is the even her response was on point, not really.

[59:07] Jess McInallie: What does that mean?

[59:08] Andrew DeWolf: What do you mean that was on point?

[59:12] Jess McInallie: On point for what?

[59:13] Andrew DeWolf: Like for the couple in front of you?

[59:17] Jess McInallie: Were you even watching the show?

[59:21] Andrew DeWolf: Why are you talking during a musical to begin with, Ben?

[59:24] Jess McInallie: Because he doesn't pay attention.

[59:26] Andrew DeWolf: He he wrote this review before he got in there.

[59:29] Jess McInallie: He was coming ceiling to us.

[59:32] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, no, no, he's like the uh eternal, like, yeah, that happened story.

[59:37] Jess McInallie: And then I turned around and I said, Wow, that was really on point.

[59:41] Andrew DeWolf: And everyone in the theater clapped.

[59:43] Jess McInallie: And then the girl in the rainbow cardigan, right during my error, turned and gave me the okay sign.

[59:53] Andrew DeWolf: On that note, how about we go to a mid-show announcement?

[1:00:02] Jess McInallie: Hey guys, we're halfway there.

[1:00:05] Andrew DeWolf: Welcome to the mid-show announcement.

[1:00:09] Jess McInallie: Right in the middle.

[1:00:10] Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon.

[1:00:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy, our patrons are people that support us.

[1:00:22] It's great.

[1:00:23] Um, you can donate to us and help us keep the show going.

[1:00:27] Um, our current patrons are Melissa Goldman, Terry Ninelman, John Donna, Layton Accles, Danielle Rennix, Jess the Stampede, Ewan Cassidy, Taskeer, Fire of September, Monica Thoreau, Mina Maneary, Brent Black, Haley Murray, Lathaniel Stacy Coomb, Joseph Evans Green, Carrie Ahern, Mary Lou Choquette, John Vanels, heck you, I go by Elijah now, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, RJ Noresia.

[1:00:51] I apologize.

[1:00:53] Andrew DeWolf: RJ Noriga.

[1:00:54] That's probably still not right, but I'll get it right next time.

[1:00:57] Jess McInallie: Emily Gracie, Andrew Van Barrison, to Blanc Kyle Summers, Janae C, Christina Francis, Scoot in the Technicolor Dreamcoat, Thelise R.

[1:01:05] Andrew DeWolf: Liz Lim, Alice, and Alison Stoller, nothing is certain except Beth and Taxis, John Vanels, Desbian, Ren Cullen, Wait in the Wings, Spectacle Machine, Jacob Stroop, Raphael Martinez Celeste, Robert Benjamin, Rochelle T, Jessica T.

[1:01:20] Jess McInallie: Genevieve Hartnett, Cass.

[1:01:22] Andrew DeWolf: That it's just cast.

[1:01:24] Jess McInallie: Mitchell Young, Jack T Tite Cup, Hayden Wilder, Katie McDonough, Timothy Keys, Jeffrey Machado, Jakuse, Toon Van Essen, Jess Jesse Taylor, R.

[1:01:37] Andrew DeWolf: Elliott, Chris Marco, uh, Katie Turberg, Mimu, Kiji Marie, uh, Anastacchio, um Trevor Lopez, uh Sierra Moncree, and Liela.

[1:01:51] Jess McInallie: And these people give us a little financial support that helps us keep the lights on here, musicals with cheese.

[1:01:55] Andrew DeWolf: And you know what?

[1:01:56] Jess McInallie: We love you guys.

[1:01:57] Andrew DeWolf: It's a hundred and fiftyth episode.

[1:01:59] Jess McInallie: Um, it's so wonderful.

[1:02:01] Andrew DeWolf: I I'm I just love you all so much.

[1:02:03] Jess McInallie: I just wanted to show some of your appreciation.

[1:02:04] Andrew DeWolf: Jess has been drinking so much wine.

[1:02:06] Jess McInallie: I haven't though.

[1:02:07] Andrew DeWolf: And Andrew, you I'm the drunk one.

[1:02:09] Jess McInallie: You forgot a whole ass Patreon.

[1:02:11] Andrew DeWolf: Um I read that one earlier.

[1:02:14] Jess McInallie: Okay, okay.

[1:02:15] Andrew DeWolf: I read that one after musical help.

[1:02:17] Jess McInallie: That's fair.

[1:02:17] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[1:02:18] Jess McInallie: Um, I I'm just very grateful to you all um for sticking around for 150 episodes for welcoming Bree with open arms 50 episodes ago.

[1:02:26] Andrew DeWolf: And you know what?

[1:02:27] Jess McInallie: If you guys are on our Patreon, you get to see Bree's cute outfit.

[1:02:31] Andrew DeWolf: Is that a top or a dress?

[1:02:33] Jess McInallie: Can I can I see the full thing?

[1:02:35] Andrew DeWolf: It's cute.

[1:02:35] Jess McInallie: I I got bored and I was like, what is that?

[1:02:37] Andrew DeWolf: Is that a top or a dress?

[1:02:40] Jess McInallie: That's fucking cute as shit.

[1:02:42] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you.

[1:02:43] Jess McInallie: Well, I'm cute as shit.

[1:02:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, you are.

[1:02:46] Jess McInallie: Um and you know what?

[1:02:47] Andrew DeWolf: You can see Bree being cute as shit on our Patreon right now.

[1:02:51] Jess McInallie: You can see how cute that top was.

[1:02:53] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you.

[1:02:54] Jess McInallie: And you can see Jess and I too, if you want to.

[1:02:57] Andrew DeWolf: Nobody wants to.

[1:02:59] Jess McInallie: Andrew, Andrew, Andrew.

[1:03:02] Andrew DeWolf: It's true.

[1:03:03] Jess McInallie: We've been very sweaty for the past couple episodes.

[1:03:07] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I'm gonna be even more sweaty after this episode.

[1:03:11] Jess McInallie: 150th.

[1:03:13] Andrew DeWolf: Things are changing in the world of Jess.

[1:03:16] Jess McInallie: So all right, let's get back to the show.

[1:03:37] Andrew DeWolf: From death a projet, stranger.

[1:03:49] Jess McInallie: Happy to see you.

[1:04:01] Andrew DeWolf: Oh cabaret to cabaret.

[1:04:05] Jess McInallie: Cabaret, everybody!

[1:04:07] Andrew DeWolf: Welcome and welcome.

[1:04:11] Jess McInallie: Um cabaret to cabaret du cabaret.

[1:04:15] Andrew DeWolf: One of the best opening numbers of all time.

[1:04:17] Jess McInallie: Can we all agree that that fucking opening is very good?

[1:04:21] Andrew DeWolf: It is.

[1:04:21] Jess McInallie: They do play it a lot during the entire show, though, I pretty feel like.

[1:04:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[1:04:25] Jess McInallie: Did they play it a lot during the movie?

[1:04:26] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think they did.

[1:04:27] Jess McInallie: They play it in interstitial moments.

[1:04:30] Andrew DeWolf: Like it's always like if someone has a violin, that's what they're playing.

[1:04:34] Jess McInallie: Okay, yeah.

[1:04:35] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:04:35] Jess McInallie: It wasn't like, oh, they're playing the song again, but it was very subtle.

[1:04:40] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[1:04:40] Jess McInallie: Yeah, it's like used as music until the very end.

[1:04:44] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I think this song is just a great opener.

[1:04:47] Jess McInallie: Like, it's better than an overture.

[1:04:48] Andrew DeWolf: Like, this is ten times better than an overture.

[1:04:51] Jess McInallie: Um, and it is strangely very blunt sexually and uncomfortable in a lot of ways, but also very inviting.

[1:04:59] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I want to spend more time in this club in every version.

[1:05:03] Jess McInallie: It's a fun club, and this song is a great introduction to the show.

[1:05:07] Andrew DeWolf: Have you ever seen the version where Joel Gray sings this at the Muppets?

[1:05:11] Jess McInallie: I have not.

[1:05:12] Andrew DeWolf: We will I imagine the Muppets aren't doing anything nearly as uh sexual as in the actual show.

[1:05:17] Jess McInallie: No, they're finishing his lines for him, and he's getting frustrated.

[1:05:22] Andrew DeWolf: That's funny.

[1:05:24] Jess McInallie: Um, Bree, play a clip of it right here.

[1:05:26] Andrew DeWolf: Feel calm and be.

[1:06:02] Jess McInallie: Uh oh wow, isn't that hilarious?

[1:06:06] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so let's talk about um Herr Schneider's song, So What, which is the second song in the show, which also implies that she is the main character, since she's the only one with the I Wants song in that specific spot.

[1:06:18] Jess McInallie: When I had a man, my figure was stumpy and fat.

[1:06:23] Andrew DeWolf: So what?

[1:06:25] Jess McInallie: Through all of our years, he was so disappointed in that.

[1:06:30] Andrew DeWolf: So what?

[1:06:32] Jess McInallie: Now I have what he missed, and my figure is trim, but he lies in a church yard plot.

[1:06:39] Andrew DeWolf: If it wasn't to be that he am I would see the unconscious in me, so what?

[1:06:45] Jess McInallie: By the sun will rise and the moon will set, and you learn after setting up all what you get.

[1:06:52] Andrew DeWolf: It will all go on if we're here on that.

[1:06:56] Jess McInallie: So who cares?

[1:06:57] Andrew DeWolf: So what?

[1:06:59] Jess McInallie: So who cares?

[1:07:00] Andrew DeWolf: So what?

[1:07:02] Jess McInallie: Yeah, I I think this is a fine number.

[1:07:04] Andrew DeWolf: It is a little strange that they don't give uh whatever the male lead's name is, I don't remember.

[1:07:09] Jess McInallie: He doesn't have a single song in the show.

[1:07:11] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they don't give him like anything, even though he is kind of the lead.

[1:07:16] Jess McInallie: I don't really know if you even can call him the lead, though.

[1:07:18] Andrew DeWolf: He's definitely the point of view character.

[1:07:20] Jess McInallie: Whether or not he's the lead is a good idea.

[1:07:21] Andrew DeWolf: He's honestly maybe more like just an audience surrogate.

[1:07:25] Jess McInallie: Yes, than anything else.

[1:07:26] Andrew DeWolf: Um but yeah, I mean, I think that uh this is the good number, and I think that she has the most motivation in the show out of all the characters, so it makes sense to give it to her.

[1:07:37] Jess McInallie: She's the one with like the most trauma, as weird as it says, and Sally does have like her trauma that she goes through with like the abortion subplot and all that.

[1:07:46] Andrew DeWolf: But she's the one that like falls in love deeply in love with this guy and then has to give it up for her own social standing.

[1:07:53] Jess McInallie: She's the true emotional core to the show.

[1:07:56] Andrew DeWolf: Which is why it's so disappointing that she gets cut from the uh the movie.

[1:08:00] Jess McInallie: Yes.

[1:08:01] Andrew DeWolf: Um, because she's so and also well, we should stop for a moment.

[1:08:04] Jess McInallie: How often do we see a primary role for older women in Broadway?

[1:08:09] Andrew DeWolf: Like, can you even think of another one where it's like this well represented where they have a love story?

[1:08:14] Jess McInallie: I mean, wait, like Mama Rose, maybe?

[1:08:17] Andrew DeWolf: I don't how old is she supposed to be?

[1:08:19] Jess McInallie: Yeah, she yeah, that's a that's one, but it's not like a proper love story.

[1:08:23] Andrew DeWolf: She's like this really toxic human being, Mama Rose.

[1:08:26] Jess McInallie: Well, yeah, but she is the like the lead of that show, kind of.

[1:08:29] Andrew DeWolf: Or one of the most important characters.

[1:08:31] Jess McInallie: Yeah, I guess that's really the only one I can really think of, though.

[1:08:34] Andrew DeWolf: Right off the top of your head.

[1:08:35] Jess McInallie: I mean, other ones are just like Madame Thenardier, I guess.

[1:08:39] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, which is not a lead role.

[1:08:42] Jess McInallie: So I'm very grateful that this exists for like older actors to have something that they can play.

[1:08:46] Andrew DeWolf: It's a real shame that they can't watch the movie and you know, see how they're gonna be able to do it there.

[1:08:50] Jess McInallie: They're replaced by a bunch of young fuckers.

[1:08:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:08:52] Jess McInallie: No, I like I like the song.

[1:08:55] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and I don't know, it sets up like the carefree sort of maybe not carefree, the like idea that she doesn't give a shit anymore.

[1:09:03] Jess McInallie: I don't know.

[1:09:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, she's kind of like I I want to help people rather than just kind of be an asshole.

[1:09:09] Jess McInallie: She's not a bad landlord.

[1:09:10] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, more or less.

[1:09:11] Jess McInallie: To some extent, yeah.

[1:09:13] Andrew DeWolf: Um, then we have I want to talk about this, despite it not being in the original Broadway version, but it is in both the movie and the more recent Broadway adaptation.

[1:09:22] Jess McInallie: And it's mine air, which was written for the movie, specifically for Liza Minelli, and has since been brought into the Broadway productions.

[1:09:31] Andrew DeWolf: By my hair.

[1:09:43] Jess McInallie: It was a fine, but now it's over.

[1:09:50] Andrew DeWolf: And no, I used to care.

[1:09:53] Jess McInallie: I need the open.

[1:09:55] Andrew DeWolf: Y'all better off without me my hair.

[1:09:58] Jess McInallie: Don't dab your eye, mine hair, or wonder why.

[1:09:58] Andrew DeWolf: Mine hair.

[1:10:02] Jess McInallie: I've always said that I was a robot.

[1:10:06] Andrew DeWolf: You mustn't knit your brow.

[1:10:08] Jess McInallie: You should have known by now.

[1:10:10] Andrew DeWolf: You have recoil.

[1:10:11] Jess McInallie: Stand out me my hair.

[1:10:13] Andrew DeWolf: Um does this make Don't Tell Mama obsolete?

[1:10:17] Jess McInallie: Because they both basically serve the same purpose.

[1:10:20] Andrew DeWolf: And I love both songs equally.

[1:10:21] Jess McInallie: Like, there's not one I like more than the other.

[1:10:23] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I feel like it's a yes and no.

[1:10:25] Jess McInallie: Like, there's not really much harm in having both of them if they're both good songs.

[1:10:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[1:10:29] Jess McInallie: Um, it is it's a song that's in a bit of an odd spot, though, because of course the revival, like, do you take the one from the movie or do you take the one from the show?

[1:10:38] Andrew DeWolf: Because it's not in both, and you neither one of them is in both.

[1:10:42] Jess McInallie: So I guess they just went with take both.

[1:10:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, but I also think Mine Air never works as well on the stage as it does in that movie, which is a big problem.

[1:10:51] Jess McInallie: Whereas Don't Tell Mama always fucking sells.

[1:10:53] Andrew DeWolf: That song always.

[1:10:54] Jess McInallie: I kind of feel like it's a hard song to sing.

[1:10:57] Jess McInallie: Um, because I noticed in the version I watched, like the singer seemed to be struggling to do the dance moves while singing the song.

[1:11:03] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that's just Emma Stone, who isn't a trained singer nor dancer.

[1:11:07] Jess McInallie: That's possible.

[1:11:08] Andrew DeWolf: Um, though I don't think she did badly on Don't Tell Mama, though, whereas I do think she did somewhat badly on this one.

[1:11:14] Jess McInallie: Well, that's the difference.

[1:11:16] Andrew DeWolf: Mine Heir was or Don't Tell Mama is written for a character.

[1:11:19] Jess McInallie: Mine Heir was written for Liza Minelli.

[1:11:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:11:21] Jess McInallie: So it's specifically for one actress's range and vocal style.

[1:11:26] Andrew DeWolf: And performance style, which is a very well trained dancer, singer, performer.

[1:11:30] Jess McInallie: Where Sally Bulls as a character is not any of those things.

[1:11:33] Andrew DeWolf: She's supposed to be kind of bad at what she does.

[1:11:36] Jess McInallie: Which is the reason why so many stars are able to slip into that role, like Michelle Williams, Emma Stone, um, and a bunch of those types.

[1:11:43] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:11:43] Jess McInallie: So, yeah.

[1:11:44] Andrew DeWolf: I wouldn't honestly, with this song, and honestly, with probably all the songs that were introduced in the movie, I could give or take whether or not they put them into the stage show.

[1:11:53] Jess McInallie: It just depends on who's directing it, I guess.

[1:11:55] Andrew DeWolf: I don't really care if it shows up or not.

[1:11:57] Jess McInallie: Well, there you say that, but I have one our next song that I'm gonna talk about is just me pointing that out that I think this song is necessary for the musical.

[1:12:06] Andrew DeWolf: And that is maybe this time, which is so desperately needed in the musical.

[1:12:11] Jess McInallie: Someone needs to want something in this musical, and no one does for the longest time.

[1:12:15] Andrew DeWolf: And then we have this gorgeous I want number where Sally has this like maybe I could be this family girl, maybe I could be settled down and all that.

[1:12:26] Jess McInallie: And the pregnancy subplot in the movie is not brought up until like basically until the movie's almost over.

[1:12:33] Andrew DeWolf: Pregnancy is basically brought up as soon as the song is done.

[1:12:36] Jess McInallie: Everybody loves a winner.

[1:12:42] Andrew DeWolf: So nobody loved me.

[1:12:48] Jess McInallie: Lady peaceful Lady Happy.

[1:12:54] Andrew DeWolf: That's what I long to be honest and my famous something's come to make It's gonna happen.

[1:13:17] Jess McInallie: Happen sometime Maybe this time.

[1:13:25] Andrew DeWolf: Maybe this time.

[1:13:39] Jess McInallie: Yeah, I guess I can see that, and and it probably does help with keeping this version from being as meandering as the original.

[1:13:49] Andrew DeWolf: Um, because I mean, nobody has an I want song in the original.

[1:13:53] Jess McInallie: None of the characters necessarily want anything.

[1:13:55] Andrew DeWolf: It's all this like slice of life with this dark backdrop.

[1:14:00] Jess McInallie: And like that's cool, but it kind of feels like nothing's happening sometimes because nobody necessarily has any goals outside of I guess the Nazis, who are not really a character.

[1:14:10] Andrew DeWolf: No, they're uh representation.

[1:14:12] Jess McInallie: But maybe this time existing, and also let's just say Don't Tell Mama and Mine Heir all characterize Sally in a very important way.

[1:14:22] Andrew DeWolf: Where in that original production, she is not very characterized.

[1:14:25] Jess McInallie: She is so much not really a character that uh uh Walter Kerr can basically just say, eh, I hate the actress and have nothing else to say about her.

[1:14:36] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas this takes elements from that and elements from Liza Minelli and forms her into a character in this final form where that has an arc, a gold, an active participant in her own story that makes her decisions for herself for a reason.

[1:14:50] Jess McInallie: Yeah.

[1:14:50] Andrew DeWolf: No, I can agree with that.

[1:14:51] Jess McInallie: This mine air, I'm not in, and I think I think the money song is the other one that is from the movie specifically.

[1:14:58] Andrew DeWolf: Kind of.

[1:14:59] Jess McInallie: Um it was written for the movie, but there was a song called Money in the original Broadway version that was not this song.

[1:15:06] Andrew DeWolf: This is the one from the song.

[1:15:08] Jess McInallie: Which is the one from the movie?

[1:15:08] Andrew DeWolf: The da-da-da-da-wheel go around, the world go around?

[1:15:13] Jess McInallie: Or is that the one from the is that the one from the stage show?

[1:15:15] Andrew DeWolf: That is the one from the movie that was later brought into the stage show to replace the old song that was called Money as well.

[1:15:21] Jess McInallie: That wasn't very good.

[1:15:22] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean, I think that song is fine and it fits into the show.

[1:15:25] Jess McInallie: I just it's not like a necessary, I don't think, but I think it's more necessary than the it is in the movie.

[1:15:34] Andrew DeWolf: Because in the movie In the movie, there's just it's just because there's a rich guy.

[1:15:37] Jess McInallie: Yeah, they meet a rich guy and they basically both become sugar mamas and sugar daddies for the he becomes their sugar daddy.

[1:15:44] Andrew DeWolf: Um here it's because Cliff gets the opportunity to make a lot of money doing favors for the Nazis without realizing it, and not even looking into it.

[1:15:54] Jess McInallie: Um and it's represented by this briefcase that the MC has that Cliff is delivering for Nazi purposes unbeknownst to himself, which I think is a much darker use of this song as opposed to like oh I I think it's more necessary in the new version, to be honest, where it's like, yeah, money makes the world go round, but what are you doing it for?

[1:16:13] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:16:13] Jess McInallie: No, I mean I think the revival did it just brought everything together.

[1:16:17] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[1:16:17] Jess McInallie: It did.

[1:16:18] Andrew DeWolf: It did, and that's why it's kind of fun to talk about these songs in their final form.

[1:16:22] Jess McInallie: Before we talk about tomorrow belongs to me, I do want to talk about me skite, which is the only song here that only appeared in the 1966 version, where we have that character that gives Cliff all these jobs to go deliver materials for the Nazis with via train on us all that.

[1:16:39] Andrew DeWolf: And then he comes back to this party, and at Herr Schultz and Freulein Schneider's party, he tells this story, um, basically this horribly anti-Semitic story about a miskite, which is like I want to find the find the exact lyrics.

[1:16:55] Jess McInallie: I don't know if urban dictionary is accurate on this, but it says Yiddish slang to define an ugly woman.

[1:17:00] Andrew DeWolf: Um, it's a Yiddish word.

[1:17:03] Jess McInallie: Miskite means ugly, funny looking.

[1:17:06] Andrew DeWolf: Miskite, um, and it's just all about this horrible, horrible story about Jewish people and Yiddish words and all of it.

[1:17:14] Jess McInallie: It's this disgusting, disgusting.

[1:17:16] Andrew DeWolf: Anyone responsible for loveliness, large or small, is not a me skite at all, is how the song ends.

[1:17:21] Jess McInallie: And then everyone kind of reacts like, oh, you fucking piece of shit.

[1:17:25] Andrew DeWolf: And then they realize, oh no, it's everyone is a Nazi, and then that leads in the song Tomorrow Belongs to me.

[1:17:33] Jess McInallie: Gorgeous, gorgeous.

[1:17:35] Andrew DeWolf: They produced a baby that was gorgeous, gorgeous.

[1:17:39] Jess McInallie: Crowding round the cradle, all the relatives.

[1:17:42] Andrew DeWolf: Odd and oood.

[1:17:44] Jess McInallie: He ought to pose for a baby food.

[1:17:49] Andrew DeWolf: Gorgeous, gorgeous.

[1:17:51] Jess McInallie: Would I tell a lie?

[1:17:52] Andrew DeWolf: He's simply gorgeous, gorgeous.

[1:17:55] Jess McInallie: Who'd have ever thought that we would see such a flawless gem out of Domiskites like them?

[1:18:04] Andrew DeWolf: I find it interesting because it used to be such an important part of the musical.

[1:18:08] Jess McInallie: Like it was referenced in a number of songs.

[1:18:10] Andrew DeWolf: You still hear the melody throughout the musical.

[1:18:13] Jess McInallie: Um, I just find it interesting that that's like the one thing that's still kind of in there, but not in there at all.

[1:18:18] Andrew DeWolf: Um, I didn't I've never heard anyone else bring up this song before.

[1:18:22] Jess McInallie: I wanted to bring it up.

[1:18:23] Andrew DeWolf: Um, but tomorrow belongs to me.

[1:18:25] Jess McInallie: Incredible number, incredibly dark, horrifying number.

[1:18:45] Andrew DeWolf: Together to greet the storm to be alongs to me.

[1:19:08] Jess McInallie: It's cool to the Nazi.

[1:19:13] Andrew DeWolf: But some we're going to say to my rope.

[1:19:25] Jess McInallie: I I like that it's the only number that they give to the Nazis.

[1:19:29] Andrew DeWolf: You know?

[1:19:30] Jess McInallie: It's like this when you hear this song, you know who's singing it.

[1:19:33] Andrew DeWolf: You know what it's about.

[1:19:35] Jess McInallie: But I guess we gotta talk about the problem with this song in more recent years.

[1:19:39] Andrew DeWolf: Um do you mean the Charlottesville?

[1:19:42] Jess McInallie: I'm talking about just Nazis in general embracing it as their theme and like I mean, yeah, at I think the first I've heard of it is at Charlottesville, they literally were chanting this.

[1:19:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:19:53] Jess McInallie: Yep, they were.

[1:19:54] Andrew DeWolf: Which I suppose you have to take that risk if you have a number about Nazis, where it's literally and it's it's kind of a a pretty song at first as well, which makes it worse.

[1:20:04] Jess McInallie: Yes.

[1:20:05] Andrew DeWolf: It's like it's it's like this is the song that Nazis would sing to describe themselves, essentially.

[1:20:10] Jess McInallie: Like, we're the German people, and we're everything that's happy in sunshine, and we are we are the the future, you know, of Germany.

[1:20:18] Andrew DeWolf: And then of course, fascists will look at that and be like, yeah, we are it it's bothers me because these two Jewish men wrote this and it's now being used to as Nazi propaganda because the Nazis are back.

[1:20:34] Jess McInallie: Fuck you, the Nazis are back.

[1:20:36] Andrew DeWolf: It's not even just the Nazis either.

[1:20:38] Jess McInallie: It's just fascism is on the rise on the whole.

[1:20:42] Andrew DeWolf: In not just the United States, the entire world.

[1:20:44] Jess McInallie: We're fucked.

[1:20:46] Andrew DeWolf: Tomorrow belongs to me.

[1:20:50] Jess McInallie: I do really like the song though.

[1:20:52] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's a really it's it's almost like the uh the antithesis of like um Do you hear the people sing?

[1:20:59] Jess McInallie: Yes.

[1:21:00] Andrew DeWolf: Or as I earlier described as dark Edelweiss.

[1:21:03] Jess McInallie: Um but you haven't seen sound of music, have you?

[1:21:05] Andrew DeWolf: No, I've not.

[1:21:06] Jess McInallie: Um basically there's this song about it that is also a musical about Nazis invading uh l life and Austria is being invaded, and there's this song about like Austrian pride and all that.

[1:21:17] Andrew DeWolf: Um and the Nazis co-opt it um in that musical, and the man that loves his country and is escaping the Nazis is frustrated by it.

[1:21:25] Jess McInallie: Um and this is like evil Edelweiss, where it's like about country pride, but the Nazis are singing it.

[1:21:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:21:31] Jess McInallie: Honestly though, like this song is framed as like just a German pride song.

[1:21:36] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[1:21:36] Jess McInallie: The only reason that we know it's a Nazi song is because it's Nazis singing it.

[1:21:40] Andrew DeWolf: There's nothing in the lyrics necessarily that are uh is about Nazism itself.

[1:21:44] Jess McInallie: I guess it's like about power tomorrow coming to me.

[1:21:47] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:21:48] Jess McInallie: Um we I might I might not remember all the lyrics, of course, so correct.

[1:21:52] Andrew DeWolf: If I'm wrong on that, um I admit that I'm it's a pretty vague lyrically.

[1:21:57] Bree Jones: What'd you think of that song?

[1:21:58] Jess McInallie: I think I was more shocked than anything when all of a sudden I started seeing like Nazis singing it, because in the movie that was the first time you really had any like you'd seen like a Nazi like speak or do anything, and it was really interesting to see everybody like start chanting it, like literally everybody except for our two characters.

[1:22:19] Andrew DeWolf: Um the song itself, beautiful.

[1:22:22] Jess McInallie: Beautiful, but it's uh yeah, it's just kind of sung by terrible people, so uh it's uh it's a demented song speaking of demented songs we gotta talk about if you could see her the gorilla song um beautiful song another beautiful song that tricks you that tricks you into thinking it's gonna be about something else but then it's all about like anti-Semitism and how the rise of Nazism and I find it interesting how it's a very different impression from when Joel Gray does it than when Alan Cumming does it if you could see her to my eyes you wouldn't wonder at all if you could see her to my eyes I guarantee you would fall like I did when we're in public together I hear society moan but if they could see us with my eyes maybe say leave us alone how can I speak of her virtues I don't know where to begin she's clever she's smart she reads music she doesn't smoke or drink gin like I do yet when we're working together they sneer if I'm holding her hand but if they could see her through my eyes maybe date Olandas then um if you could see her the gorilla song?

[1:24:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:24:01] Jess McInallie: Um, this is a song that like is really funny, and I feel like a lot of people will laugh at it until the last line hits, and then you're like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have laughed at that.

[1:24:10] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, the thing is it's not outwardly hateful, which is other until the end and it becomes that way.

[1:24:16] Jess McInallie: Yes.

[1:24:17] Andrew DeWolf: Um it also I I do like how some of these songs tie in to the actual stories, because I feel like this song is almost like the Nazi response to uh Is it married?

[1:24:29] Jess McInallie: Is the uh older couples?

[1:24:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yes song, and they're like back to back.

[1:24:33] Jess McInallie: Um they sing they do married as uh well.

[1:24:36] Andrew DeWolf: This is right after uh Freulein Schneider breaks it off with um uh Herr Schmidt or Herr Schultz because he's a Jew and she can't be with a Jew.

[1:24:45] Jess McInallie: Yeah, and then they play this song, and it's like almost a direct commentary on that.

[1:24:51] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, whereas in the movie it just kinda happens.

[1:24:54] Jess McInallie: Yeah, in the movie, I feel like it's almost just like the MC is just a bad person, and we're just seeing him devolve into being a Nazi.

[1:25:01] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas in this, the MC is kind of commentating on the story as it happens.

[1:25:06] Jess McInallie: Yes, he's an I'm omnipotent god in a way, until he isn't.

[1:25:11] Andrew DeWolf: Um, last song we gotta talk about is "Cabaret," of course. The song that brings it all together. Life is a cabaret. Come to the cabaret. And as for me, as for me, I made my mind up back in Chelsea when I gone.

[1:26:24] Jess McInallie: How did you like Emma Stone's rendition in the musical?

[1:26:28] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like she did fine. I think, I mean, obviously, if you get a trained singer, they probably perform it better, but I don't think I remember having any complaints. I want to talk about it because I think Emma Stone, I don't think she's like the perfect Sally Bowles, but she did my favorite rendition of the song "Cabaret" ever because she made actor choices in that song that I had never seen any other performer take. Like things where she had to have had a conversation with the musicians beforehand. Like when she says, uh, she's talking about Elsie, the day she died, there's like a very long pause where she's like contemplating the next line. The neighbors came to snicker and all that. Um, and it's her making the decision to get the abortion and us discovering that in front of us.

And everyone else just kind of sings it like through, takes it all the way to the end. Kind of like Liza Minnelli, but probably a little worse. Um, whereas Emma Stone really kind of sells it in an actory way that only like a film actor really could do. I'm making a choice here, and I'm gonna change my ways. And she sobs through the song in the end. She just kind of starts screaming into the microphone as opposed to singing it, which is something introduced in the Alan Cumming version by all of them. But it's just such a dark version. It's not a pretty song in the new version at all. Whereas Liza Minnelli and everyone before just kind of like, "Oh, what good is sitting alone in your room? Come hear the music play."

I feel like it works better though. It's something that I just have a general feeling of with the first production and the movie, is just that they didn't really have an idea of the tone of their own material.

[1:28:20] Jess McInallie: Yes.

[1:28:21] Andrew DeWolf: It's like you wrote this show about the literal rise of fascism and how it ruined these people's lives, and you end it with a nice bright number, like what? But then again, there are other people that go too far. Um, there's one where they perform "Cabaret" while she's getting the abortion, and you just see the blood kind of dripping down her legs and all that, and her wincing and reacting, which is a choice I think is a little too far. That one does feel like it would just be for shock value, because like not that that's necessarily bad, and I could see some people seeing artistic merit in that, but I don't think it's necessary.

[1:28:58] Jess McInallie: Not at all.

[1:29:00] Andrew DeWolf: It's gr yeah. "Cabaret" is a great number, and then it goes into the finale, which is absolutely incredible. I love this musical so much, but it took a lot of time to make me love it. It took a lot of incarnations to get me there. I think overall, it's a pretty good show. And I don't know if I love it still.

[1:29:21] Jess McInallie: What do you think? You're just processing it or because you've seen a lot of "Cabaret" in the last week? Let's just put that out there.

[1:29:27] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. I feel like the newest version is the best version, but I don't know if I would give it like as good of a rating as some other shows we've seen.

[1:29:38] Jess McInallie: Damn.

[1:29:39] Andrew DeWolf: Damn. What I mean, what do you think is better? I feel like this tells the story of the uprising of Nazi Germany and the apathy of the people toward it and the dangers of that very well. Like, what do you think it could do better?

[1:29:49] Jess McInallie: I don't know if it's anything it necessarily could do better. I just, I don't know if it's, it bummed me out. I didn't take away my bluesicles. I don't know. I liked it fine. It may have just been that I've watched three versions of it and they all kind of blur together at a certain point, and I'm like kind of mediocre on it because I didn't like the movie as much. Uh, I don't know. Overall, it's pretty good though.

[1:30:12] Jess McInallie: What's your cheese rating?

[1:30:13] Andrew DeWolf: Oh boy. The cheese rating for this. Um boy. Uh, moral belongs to cheese, baby. Tomorrow belongs to cheese. Hmm. Ah, this is an interesting cheese. I'm gonna give it Quark Cheese, a fresh mild cheese from Germany. Sold in small plastic tubs.

[1:30:31] Jess McInallie: That's interesting.

[1:30:34] Andrew DeWolf: Ooh, that is interesting. Um, Bree. How did you like the film? Your overall thoughts on that, as well as our discussion on the other versions, and how you think that paints your interpretation of the film afterward.

[1:30:45] Brianna Jones: Ooh, okay. So I liked the movie, but I think it only touches the surface of what this story is actually about. And I don't know if that was a win for Bob Fosse. Like I feel like he should have probably went in more depth and at least based it off the musical more. Uh, because I do think really what you see is a relationship like growing and then ending, and then you see the rise of Nazi power in Germany. And that's kind of what you get with the movie where it seems like the musical is very multi-layered, and there's a lot more detail and a lot more character development than what is in the movie. Uh, I thought your guys' discussion was fantastic as always. Um, you did make me want to go watch the newest musical. Um, because it's a 100th, 150th episode. I'm going to give it a cheese pie, which kind of just sounds like a cheesecake. But cheese pie.

[1:31:48] Andrew DeWolf: It sounds like a vulgar sex act.

[1:31:50] Brianna Jones: I'm not, it's like cream pie a girl when she's got a yeast infection. I'm sorry, it's called the celebration cheese pie.

[1:31:58] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[1:32:01] Brianna Jones: I love it.

[1:32:01] Andrew DeWolf: Celebration cheese pie.

[1:32:03] Brianna Jones: Celebration cheese pie. But it just sounds like cheesecake. Like literally everything is the same except the crust is shortbread cookies instead of your regular crust. That actually sounds very good now that I'm thinking about it, man. Maybe I'm just hungry.

[1:32:20] Andrew DeWolf: Um, Bree, after 50 episodes with us, what are you, how have you enjoyed this journey?

[1:32:25] Brianna Jones: It's been basically a year since you've joined us.

[1:32:28] Brianna Jones: It has basically been a year. Um, it's been a lot of fun. I've learned a lot about musical theater that I don't think I would have known otherwise. Um, and I'm excited to continue the journey with you guys and learn more and hopefully get some time to watch more. Um, because I definitely enjoy participating in the conversation versus just listening.

[1:32:48] Jess McInallie: Bree, I'm so excited for the upcoming. We got so many movies coming out of things we've already done. We need new perspectives on. We got the tickets. We're doing, we've got the "Dear Evan Hansons," we got so much shit on the horizon. Very excited for it. They got "Jamie" and so a lot of it's coming out in September, which is also just weird.

[1:33:09] Jess McInallie: Bree, we're so lucky. You have changed the entire landscape of this show for the better, I think. You've created an entire new segment. You've made an impact where people can't imagine the show without you. I'm grateful to you. I don't know how the fuck Andrew feels about this, but um—

[1:33:27] Andrew DeWolf: What should I feel about it?

[1:33:28] Jess McInallie: I don't know. But I love it.

[1:33:29] Andrew DeWolf: What do you want me to say here?

[1:33:31] Jess McInallie: I want you to say, "Get fucking closer to your mic."

[1:33:34] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, what do you want me to say here, Jess? You want me to say I don't like it?

[1:33:39] Jess McInallie: Bye.

[1:33:40] Andrew DeWolf: Because I'm not gonna say that.

[1:33:50] Jess McInallie: Thanks, Andrew. That means a lot. We devolved into absolute chaos. Um, I love "Cabaret." The final version with Alan Cumming, the Sam Mendes version, is truly groundbreaking in a way that none of the other versions really landed on it. Um, while all of them are fairly effective at what they're trying to do, this is the most effective in its storytelling progression. I would like to pull out the original version, the original Joel Grey Hal Prince production every now and then because they just don't do that anymore. Um, and I don't think that's quite fair. I think there's room for everyone at this table except Bob Fosse. Um, but the only cheese rating I can give it is Cheese Spätzle from Vilkommen Market.

[1:34:33] Andrew DeWolf: Um, all the way down in Frankenmouth, Michigan.

[1:34:37] Jess McInallie: Wow. Where do you find this stuff?

[1:34:40] Andrew DeWolf: Vilkommen beyond the new.

[1:34:43] Jess McInallie: Hold on, hold on. I just realized. We could literally put on "Cabaret" right now. Um, Andrew could be the MC, Bree could be Sally Bowles. I can be Cliff because he doesn't sing, and you're welcome. We could knock this out. We could just get um, yeah, we could do this. We could do this as a reading. Let us know if you would have any interest in that because I'd love to do that.

[1:35:08] Brianna Jones: I'll do it as long as I can sing.

[1:35:10] Andrew DeWolf: You're gonna give me so many songs.

[1:35:12] Jess McInallie: I just love the idea. Or at least make art of it. Come on, that would be really cool. Make art of Andrew as the MC and Bree as Sally Bowles and me as Cliff. Come on.

[1:35:22] Brianna Jones: You can even make me Brian. You can make me the British version. I don't give a shit.

[1:35:25] Andrew DeWolf: Don't make that.

[1:35:27] Jess McInallie: Don't make that. That has to be Brian.

[1:35:30] Andrew DeWolf: No one fucking likes Brian.

[1:35:34] Jess McInallie: Um, you know who definitely doesn't like Brian though? Our patrons.

[1:35:36] Jess McInallie: Oh wonderful patrons! 150th! We don't change shit for 150. Um, things are actually gonna change after this. There's gonna be some big changes around here. Nothing is changing for 150. 150 is not a milestone.

[1:35:51] Andrew DeWolf: 150.

[1:35:53] Jess McInallie: Things are changing.

[1:35:54] Andrew DeWolf: 151.

[1:35:55] Jess McInallie: It's like a brand new show.

[1:35:58] Andrew DeWolf: Nothing's gonna change.

[1:35:59] Jess McInallie: Brand new show next week, guys. Um, but thank you guys for listening. Please leave us a review on iTunes. We need more reviews. We have 150 episodes. We have more episodes out than we have reviews. So how about you leave us more? God damn it. Um, we're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals. We're on Patreon at Musicals of Cheese, Instagram Musicals with Cheese, YouTube page Musicals of Cheese. We have a patron-only podcast called Patreon with Cheese. Our email is musicaltheatrelives@gmail.com. Our title card is created by the amazing Jolene Casco. Go send her some love at Jolene Casco. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio, for 150 episodes. She's probably the only one that's listened to every single episode.

We love you, Juliet. Thank you for being on our team. This show is produced by the wonderful, the incredible, the cute top-wearing Brianna Jones. Thank you for doing this, Brie. We love having you on the show. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for still keeping us on the platform somehow. Um, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna, I can't make a joke. I was gonna make a cabaret-style joke, but I couldn't think of one that wasn't horrendously inappropriate. Um, this is our sesquicentennial episode.

[1:37:07] Andrew DeWolf: And if you can spell that, I will give you ten dollars.

[1:37:11] Jess McInallie: S-E-N-N!

[1:37:13] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[1:37:14] Jess McInallie: You didn't even try.

[1:37:18] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I'm not giving out a shot.

[1:37:20] Jess McInallie: Oh, come on.

[1:37:21] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, S-U-S.

[1:37:23] Jess McInallie: No.

[1:37:26] Andrew DeWolf: It was sus.

[1:37:27] Jess McInallie: I said sus.

[1:37:28] Andrew DeWolf: It was sus.

[1:37:29] Jess McInallie: Alright, sesquicentennial episode was sus. Good night.

[1:37:36] Andrew DeWolf: Um, you brought up something that made it into every version of "Cabaret," and I think we should really end on that note.

[1:37:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Um, for some reason they decided that the toothbrush gag was so funny. I think it might be the only thing that's in every version of it.

[1:37:50] Jess McInallie: It really is, and it's not even that good a joke.

[1:37:53] Andrew DeWolf: But it's the one, the egg and the fucking soy sauce or whatever it is.

[1:37:58] Jess McInallie: Worcestershire sauce.

[1:38:00] Andrew DeWolf: That makes it into every single version for some reason.

[1:38:05] Jess McInallie: I don't know. Uh, they just ruined it. It's still like oyster something, right? The drink she makes.

[1:38:10] Andrew DeWolf: Wait for hangovers. It's a little pepperminty.

[1:38:12] Jess McInallie: You got, I like in the one in the movie the best because they just say you got the toothbrush cup. And then it just immediately cuts.

[1:38:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[1:38:21] Jess McInallie: That's every scene in the Fosse movie. Hey, here's the point of the scene. Waste no fucking time. Um, I feel like Bree is like the one that we always, I only force you to watch the Bob Fosse shit now that I'm thinking about it. Because your last one I forced you to watch was "Pippin."

[1:38:39] Brianna Jones: God, "Pippin." That was a good one.

[1:38:40] Andrew DeWolf: So long ago. Um, so I guess I gotta force you to watch "All That Jazz" next.

[1:38:45] Brianna Jones: Okay.

[1:38:46] Andrew DeWolf: No, so much about "Pippin's."

[1:38:49] Jess McInallie: Did Bob Fosse do that?

[1:38:51] Andrew DeWolf: Or did he make an awful movie?

[1:38:53] Jess McInallie: Oh, okay. Well, the dancing was okay. The songs were good.

[1:38:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Well, we'll see ya next time for our 151st episode of Musicals with Cheese. I literally don't even know what the episode is, but I'm sure it'll be great. But bye-bye.