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[3:30] Laura Crone: Um, this was the show that I got cast in. Um, and the Tommy Holiday camp. Uh fortunately, no. Uh just a musical theater camp. Um but yeah, so I was like I was 15 and I had like never I I hadn't even started high school, so I'd only ever done like middle school musicals and like little classes at the local um like community theaters and stuff. And so this was my first experience doing a full show where I was treated more or less like a professional with other people who were really, really good and really committed. Um and so that was just like it was a huge learning experience. It very much kind of put me in my place a little bit that I came in being like, I'm great at everything, and then came out being like, wow, people are really, really good at this.

Uh uh, so there was all of that. Um, but then kind of just like aside from the artistic side of it, um, it really just you know, learning about this show just kind of opened up the world for me a little bit that it kind of felt like a thing, like an avenue into rock music for like this weird musical theater nerd that I was. Um I feel like I had never really felt like it was okay for like a dorky little kid like me to like like that kind of music. Um and uh so it was really like kind of a way into that, um, which is now you know, probably like among my favorite kind of music. So yeah. Heck yeah.

[5:07] Jess: And you had no experience with like the Who before that show.

[5:12] Laura Crone: Um I had definitely like I had heard my mom sing the line like that Deaf, Dumb, and Blind Boy shirt plays mean pinball, and I had been like, Mom, you're making that up. That's the whole show right there.

[5:26] Jess: I mean, I I would think the same thing, like, especially at that age.

[5:30] Laura Crone: Yeah. But I will admit, um, both of me, I was not aware of this show very well. Like, I knew the Who, I knew this Tommy, and I just never experienced that. So thank you for giving me the chance to dive into this world and my god, is it surreal? Have you watched the film adaptation or the film version?

[5:47] Jess: I have.

[5:48] Laura Crone: Yeah. I actually um I watched it a couple weeks ago, kind of. It's a trip.

[5:53] Jess: It is.

[5:54] Laura Crone: And this is like this is the funny thing is I know that I watched it as a high schooler. Like, because I was kind of like going through this obsession. I know that I watched it. And when I sat down to watch it a couple weeks ago, I was like, I have never seen this movie. And I went through the whole thing being like, did I did I just like only get up to the acid queen and then turn it off? Because like I remembered that it was Tina Turner, but I had forgotten everything up to that point. And I went through the whole thing being like, did I like not actually watch it? Did I just look up that scene on YouTube or something? And then I got to um the beans and and it all came back. I I had just like repressed it. I just repressed it.

[6:37] Jess: I still don't understand what that's supposed to mean.

[6:39] Laura Crone: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um Andrew, take a moment and try to say in as few words as possible what the Who is or sorry, what Tommy is. What is it about?

[6:48] Andrew: Um, Tommy is a concept album by the Who turned into a movie, but also turned into a stage show. Which one am I talking about? Because I think all three of them are about different things.

[7:00] Jess: Oh, okay. Do you let's you agree with that, Laura?

[7:03] Laura Crone: Absolutely.

[7:04] Jess: Yes, okay. 100%. Let's dive into that. What do you think?

[7:07] Andrew: Let's start with the original album. What do we all think the original album is about?

[7:12] Laura Crone: Well, I think it's vaguely about a deaf, dumb, and blind boy who plays a meeting. Of course, it takes place in a different time period than all of the rest of them, considering it takes place after World War One.

[7:24] Jess: Right.

[7:24] Laura Crone: The third song being titled 1921. And there is not a very clear narrative to the album because it's all just sung by—uh, who's the singer for The Who?

[7:37] Andrew: Is it Pete Townshend?

[7:38] Laura Crone: Is that the singer?

[7:38] Jess: I think—I'm sorry, I'm not a—uh, that would be Roger Daltrey.

[7:42] Andrew: Ah, okay.

[7:43] Laura Crone: Yeah. Is Pete Townshend the drummer?

[7:44] Jess: Is that—uh, Pete Townshend is, I wanna say, guitarist, and I think he's like secondary vocals, but kind of the lead vocals.

[7:53] Andrew: I'm not a big Who fan. I used to work with somebody who was very into The Who, and he always smelled like cigarette smoke.

[7:59] Jess: Uh, tell me who—who?

[8:01] Laura Crone: Pete Townshend is the guitarist, by the way.

[8:03] Jess: Okay, Liz. I hope I'm not falling on my face.

[8:06] Laura Crone: I'm pretty sure that's right.

[8:08] Jess: You listened to our show; we fall on our face enough.

[8:10] Andrew: Okay.

[8:10] Jess: Oh, this is a—it's a train wreck.

[8:12] Andrew: So if you fall on your face, you're looking good.

[8:14] Jess: Yes.

[8:15] Laura Crone: Actually, thank you, Liz.

[8:18] Jess: Okay.

[8:18] Laura Crone: You're killing it. Um, what were you saying, Andrew?

[8:21] Andrew: So that's what you think the album is about. Do you agree with that, Laura?

[8:24] Laura Crone: Yeah, um, I—I think there's kind of like some themes, and then which theme gets turned up in which adaptation I think is kind of the interesting thing. Like, I think there's kind of two parallel tracks, and the movie picks one, and the musical picks the other one is kind of the way that I see it.

[8:52] Andrew: I think it's notable that every adaptation has changed the song order or like the songs in general from the album.

[9:01] Laura Crone: So it's very queer; there wasn't like a narrative structure in the original album to that extent.

[9:06] Andrew: Then why put a narrative to it? Not that it's a bad thing. I enjoyed the experience of watching all this, but let's go down to the film.

[9:13] Laura Crone: I think the film has a very anti-war slant to it where it may not do another one, but is that the only thing that we really think that they cranked up to 11?

[9:23] Andrew: I rate the film as really cranking up the fame idea to 11. Like, that's what I see as kind of like the pursuit of fame and the interest in fame and what fame does to the people it lands on.

[9:40] Laura Crone: That I think that's kind of the primary interest of the movie to me.

[9:44] Jess: I think that that is huge. I do think that there is an anti-war sentiment still.

[9:49] Laura Crone: Um, and I think there's actually like an anti-religion element to it as well. Um, with the Tommy logo being like a T with a pinball on top, making it look like a cross, and uh, like, I don't know. There's like a lot going on, and it can't really stick to one thing, so it's very hard to analyze it.

[10:10] Andrew: Um, that movie has one main thing that I think it's for though, and that's beans.

[10:15] Laura Crone: That—that movie is pro-beans.

[10:17] Andrew: I would not argue that.

[10:19] Laura Crone: Definitely pro-beans, yeah.

[10:21] Andrew: I did like the imagery of the pinball being used in a lot of different ways though.

[10:26] Laura Crone: Um, especially notably at the beginning, and the reason I think it has an anti-war is the beginning they use pinball. It looks like pinballs, and they're making bombs out of it.

[10:34] Andrew: Um, which I—uh, is interesting.

[10:37] Laura Crone: Yeah, yeah, that—that's interesting.

[10:39] Andrew: Uh, I will say that does get lost in the shuffle after the bean scene.

[10:43] Laura Crone: The bean scene, it's like I'm just looking for beans everywhere.

[10:47] Andrew: What do the beans mean?

[10:48] Laura Crone: I don't understand. There's that—they introduce it like a theme because they get like a plate of the beans in a can, and then she's just rolling around in them beans.

[10:57] Andrew: Yep.

[10:58] Laura Crone: The beans are fame.

[11:00] Andrew: Okay, okay. Laura, do you have any ideas?

[11:03] Laura Crone: You know, you can just say that, but I also kind of think that's—I think that's just true.

[11:10] Andrew: Like unironically, I think that is actually what's going on in that scene.

[11:14] Laura Crone: What do the giant shoes mean?

[11:17] Andrew: The giant shoes that Elton John—Elton John wears.

[11:20] Laura Crone: Um, those are the shoes of fame that Tommy has to then fill.

[11:25] Andrew: Yeah, big—bigger, and then eventually we're all carried out with the biggest thing.

[11:29] Laura Crone: But what does the Marilyn Monroe statue mean that we like look up the panties of a lot?

[11:34] Andrew: I think there's like an anti-commercialism element to it as well.

[11:37] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[11:38] Andrew: Um, which I—there's like all of this stuff they want to talk about, and it's just like a mishmash of like, you know what the most coherent—you know what the most anti-commercial move they could have done was?

[11:47] Laura Crone: Um, let them make it into a Hollywood movie and then adapt it for Broadway.

[11:53] Andrew: That is like the most anti-capitalist movement you could really do.

[11:58] Laura Crone: Okay. Um, my girlfriend pointed this out to me when I was—after I had watched this.

[12:06] Andrew: Yeah.

[12:06] Laura Crone: The Who has another album where they're all advertising things on the front of it, and one of them is advertising baked beans.

[12:17] Andrew: Ah.

[12:19] Laura Crone: There's something.

[12:20] Andrew: There's something.

[12:21] Laura Crone: Alright. We’ve tied to it.

[12:22] Andrew: Does that tie in?

[12:25] Laura Crone: Who knows?

[12:26] Andrew: But now back to the thing that really inspired Laura's childhood, and the thing that I'm most interested in, because I'm the theater geek, the stage adaptation.

[12:33] Laura Crone: Now, changes have been made. Laura, what do you think the main theme that they drive into the stage adaptation is?

[12:39] Laura Crone: I—okay. I—I said that I'm not sure I can distill it down to one word as well as I can with the film, which is weird because I find the film to be way less kind of comprehensible for my personal sensibilities.

[12:54] Laura Crone: Um, but I think the stage adaptation just really leans—I—I would almost say less into the big heady ideas and more into just kind of the personal side of it.

[13:07] Laura Crone: Um, and then it comes around to a big idea at the end, but that's kind of a big idea that it has to create because it creates that idea by totally rewriting the album, which is fine.

[13:21] Laura Crone: Um, and I think that—I think that's the right choice in this particular case.

[13:25] Laura Crone: Um, but I wouldn't necessarily call it an idea that's pulled from the album.

[13:31] Andrew: Um, what—what happened? Like, what did they change that created this new big idea?

[13:35] Laura Crone: Uh, so the big thing is um what happens with the whole cult situation.

[13:40] Laura Crone: Um, so in the album and in the movie, um, Tommy, after his miracle cure, um, becomes super famous and starts a cult, basically.

[13:52] Andrew: Uh, as you do.

[13:53] Laura Crone: Uh, yeah, yeah.

[13:54] Andrew: And I would do it.

[13:56] Laura Crone: Yeah, I mean, why not?

[13:58] Laura Crone: Uh, yeah, there's just kind of all these people clamoring for him to start a cult, and so he does, and they are basically like, wait, no, we just wanted to go out into the desert and vibe with you, and now you want us to actually do stuff.

[14:13] Laura Crone: And so they sing this song about we're not gonna take it, um, and they totally reject him, and then he's just kind of off on his own again.

[14:21] Laura Crone: Um, and that song still happens in the show, but it's rewritten, so instead it comes out that everyone's clamoring for him to start a cult, and he's like, why would I do that?

[14:32] Jess: I have nothing to teach you. I've been living in a box with no senses and no sense of the world for 30 years, and you all understand the world. The point isn't for me to teach you, the point is for you to teach me and for me to become more like you. And yeah, then they're like, No way. No, we wanted you to start a cult, and then again they kind of reject him and he wants to get off on his own. I will say the stage show is more realistic, like how I think things might actually happen. Yeah, also tack onto the ending, the like he goes back to his family that he and then it's like, oh, he gets his i he wanted his family the whole time. Those abusive fuckers like they're kind of like not good throughout the entire thing, and they actually caused his problems.

His parents are great in the show. Like his parents in the movie suck. That that's kind of the point. Like they're they're sort of doing their best. His parents in the movie also get murdered by the cult after they get mad. That's true. Yes. I I did forget about that, actually. I I again I'm just repressing it already. So again, with like there's three different stories going on in the Who's Tommy here.

[15:45] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[15:46] Jess: Um, and I guess we should probably just focus on the stage show, but okay. I love the stage show for what it's doing with like stage theatrics. It is a much more comprehensible, digestible story as a whole than the film. The film, while I appreciate its importance in culture, my god, what a wacky trip that I hated.

[16:06] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[16:06] Jess: What I would say about it.

[16:08] Laura Crone: What was that, Laura?

[16:09] Jess: Oh, you go, you go ahead.

[16:10] Laura Crone: Oh, um what I would say about it, and I feel like I'm gonna accidentally draw this comparison a lot, and I'm gonna try to put the kaiwash on it, but I think this is one place where it's important like relevant is there's a very clear comparison to be made to The Wall, and I think there is a very good reason why if you're gonna pick one of the two as a film that has kind of stuck in our cultural consciousness a bit more, it is very much The Wall.

[16:40] Jess: Uh why, because of the terrifying CGI monsters at the end?

[16:44] Laura Crone: Well, it just I I think it is It is the clearance wall.

[16:50] Jess: Oh, people talk about that.

[16:52] Laura Crone: Oh yeah, yeah.

[16:53] Jess: I I mean, for the love of all that is holy, nobody tell Doug about the news, Tommy. Like, just just don't.

[17:00] Laura Crone: Oh man, can you imagine Doug Walker's told me to uh you'd probably call it Dougie or something.

[17:00] Jess: Call it Dougie.

[17:08] Laura Crone: He told me Dougie.

[17:10] Jess: No, he wouldn't even call it Dougie, he'd call it nostalgia-y, critic-y.

[17:15] Laura Crone: Oh criticy.

[17:17] Jess: Bro, please.

[17:18] Laura Crone: I'm sorry, Laura. I I know you're trying to get away from that.

[17:21] Jess: I mean, I did, I did, I did say it. I brought it up. I I brought us here. Um the CGI background, the horrible green screen.

[17:28] Laura Crone: That would be great.

[17:30] Jess: Oh no. I wonder if the beans would be green screen.

[17:34] Laura Crone: What's the grill beans or with the one is core lack is really green beans and beans.

[17:40] Jess: I can't wait. Also, I looked up pictures in the bean scene while you guys were talking about it. Holy shit.

[17:45] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[17:46] Jess: And some of that's chocolate too. Like that's what I think.

[17:51] Laura Crone: It doesn't look like beans sometimes.

[17:53] Jess: So it's it's beans and then it's chocolate. Like well, as far as like the wall goes, I I feel like a lot of the um very strong concept albums would not exist without the Who's Tommy though.

[18:10] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[18:10] Jess: And I mean the original album.

[18:11] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[18:12] Jess: Um, so I feel like in some sense we can thank The Who for Doug Walker's The Wall.

[18:18] Laura Crone: Um Thank?

[18:20] Jess: I don't like that.

[18:22] Laura Crone: Please Kink Voice the Wall.

[18:25] Jess: What what do I what do I need to do?

[18:27] Laura Crone: Liz, you need to make a poster where Andrew just says that.

[18:30] Jess: What was the quote again?

[18:32] Laura Crone: Swimmers.

[18:34] Jess: You'll listen to it later.

[18:35] Laura Crone: Yeah, you will listen to it later and be like, oh yeah, that makes sense.

[18:38] Jess: That's true.

[18:39] Laura Crone: Yeah, I'll photoshop that after we're done this.

[18:41] Jess: But in all seriousness though, this was this came out in 1969. This is like a really old album.

[18:45] Laura Crone: I think The Wall did come out in the 70s, like late 70s.

[18:50] Jess: Yeah.

[18:51] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[18:51] Jess: So I I will say that like this even predates like other albums that would eventually go to Broadway, like Jesus Christ, Superstar or Evita.

[18:59] Laura Crone: Like this has a staying power that not a lot of other narrative concept albums really have, and it started it all.

[19:06] Jess: And I listened to The Wall album today. I don't get why it became a narrative. Like it is not a very clear narrative to begin with.

[19:15] Laura Crone: Like we covered Tiara by Seventh Wonder.

[19:15] Jess: Seventh Wonder.

[19:19] Laura Crone: And that has a much clearer narrative than this.

[19:22] Jess: I think concept albums have gotten more narratively driven than they used to be. It used to be a concept album. It was literally just a concept.

[19:32] Laura Crone: It was very nebulous and like The Wall is about like a certain amount of emotions, isn't it?

[19:39] Jess: Like, I I don't even know.

[19:40] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[19:40] Jess: I like I would I I have a hard time. I mean, I know that there is actually an opera of The Wall. I've never seen it, but like I can't like I I think it works very well in film.

[19:52] Laura Crone: Um, but I struggle to see like I don't think you could create a really like Broadway-friendly narrative from it.

[20:00] Jess: Um and that that that sounds derogatory. I don't mean it in a derogatory way. I just mean like literally like a narrative that you could portray with people on a stage.

[20:09] Laura Crone: Um I I think would be a real struggle in a way that uh I I think was really successful with Tommy.

[20:15] Jess: Um well, so let's go back to your original production. You're very young.

[20:18] Laura Crone: How do they explain this to you?

[20:23] Jess: Oh no.

[20:24] Laura Crone: Um I don't know that they did much.

[20:28] Jess: Oh, okay.

[20:29] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[20:31] Jess: And I I don't know if I I sent this production to you. I don't know if you watched it.

[20:35] Laura Crone: I skimmed through it because I had to watch like three different versions of short okay.

[20:42] Jess: So what you may have noticed is that it's a very strange production.

[20:46] Laura Crone: It is different.

[20:48] Jess: It is a production that is deeply uncomfortable with its source material, and I think that probably comes of the fact that that is a group of 15 to 18-year-old children putting it on.

[20:59] Laura Crone: I i it does feel like it feels shorter than most versions of Tommy, even it like they cut it to shreds, didn't they?

[21:07] Jess: Uh weirdly, not really.

[21:10] Laura Crone: Like, it's actually funny.

[21:11] Jess: Um this was actually my first time revisiting the like the whole stage musical in in its full form.

[21:18] Laura Crone: Um I had never actually watched a whole production of it.

[21:21] Jess: Um so I had I had assumed, just kind of from what I held in my mind of that show that that like we had cut it to shreds, but we really didn't cut all that much.

[21:32] Laura Crone: Um, like we cut, we cut, we're not gonna take it.

[21:35] Jess: Um, and there are a lot of bits and pieces in the middle where like a verse was cut or like um a new song was replaced with yet another reprise of Pinball Wizard.

[21:46] Laura Crone: But in terms of like the actual subject matter, like it's it's actually all there.

[21:52] Jess: Um, which is which is really interesting to me.

[21:55] Laura Crone: Um, especially because I I don't know how, especially having watched this other production that was the full thing.

[22:02] Jess: Yeah.

[22:03] Laura Crone: And it's you know, 20 minutes longer than the recording of the one that I did when I was 15.

[22:08] Jess: And I I don't know where this 20 minutes went because like in the fundamental pieces, they're all there.

[22:14] Laura Crone: I we were just like going at it at a super fast clip or something.

[22:18] Jess: Um there's just dance breaks, like that.

[22:21] Laura Crone: That's a thing that I noticed in a lot of like school productions that are like let's cut the dance break.

[22:25] Jess: These these kids are more acting focused.

[22:28] Laura Crone: That is uh that's the one thing we didn't cut, is there's there is a lot of dancing in that production.

[22:34] Jess: And the it is it is not the right kind of dancing for that show for the most part.

[22:41] Laura Crone: A fun story is that I actually looked up our choreographer, um the choreographer from that show, and it turns out that he went on to be a producer on the Minions move Christmas special.

[22:52] Jess: Ooh, ooh.

[22:52] Laura Crone: Didn't even get to the real Minions movie.

[22:55] Jess: Yeah, and I saw that and was like, hmm, yeah, that tracks.

[22:59] Laura Crone: So if that tells you anything uh about there, there is some of that choreography that literally was recycled in that same summer for a musical theater dance class where we were dancing to Bushel and a Peck.

[23:11] Jess: Oh that's uh that's a different vibe altogether.

[23:13] Laura Crone: Uh-huh.

[23:14] Jess: Uh-huh.

[23:14] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[23:15] Jess: So if that tells you anything about just kind of stylistically where that show went, um yeah.

[23:21] Laura Crone: But weirdly, in terms of the subject matter, it w there were very few punches pulled.

[23:21] Jess: Very few.

[23:27] Laura Crone: In fact, actually, there was at least one change that uh maybe made it even more adult than the actual full stage show, which I didn't realize when I watched it.

[23:38] Jess: I was like, wow, we went even harder with that, which is a choice when you're talking about 16-year-olds.

[23:44] Jess: What what was it? Please, please elaborate.

[23:46] Laura Crone: Uh so the Acid Queen.

[23:48] Jess: Uh oh, yeah.

[23:50] Laura Crone: So uh number one, we're talking about a 16-year-old girl playing the Acid Queen.

[23:55] Jess: Um, well, I guess it's kind of two choices wrapped into one that were changes from the show.

[24:00] Laura Crone: So it in the original show, um, when Tommy goes to the Acid Queen, uh, it that that's adult Tommy. We've already swapped out the two Tommies.

[24:10] Jess: Um, and then uh this is for anyone who's not familiar with the uh with Tommy, uh the Acid Queen is a a sex worker and a drug dealer.

[24:20] Laura Crone: Um, so yes, yeah, that that's what that plan is there.

[24:25] Jess: It's great.

[24:25] Laura Crone: They're a little desperate at that point.

[24:27] Jess: Um so in the original stage show, this is we've swapped out for adult Tommy. His dad kind of in a moment of desperation is like, maybe this person can help.

[24:40] Laura Crone: Um, and then he kind of freaks out.

[24:43] Jess: Like he realizes what he's done, and before anything can happen, he runs off with Tommy and is like, I I'm so sorry, this is a good one.

[24:50] Laura Crone: No son of mine.

[24:52] Jess: Yeah.

[24:52] Laura Crone: Or not even no son of mine, but just like, I can't believe this, like he kind of realizes how ridiculous a line of logic this is and takes it back.

[25:04] Jess: In our show, uh, we had not swapped out the Tommies yet, so that's still that's still child Tommy.

[25:13] Laura Crone: Did we do that in the movie?

[25:15] Jess: Uh wasn't he still young in the movie?

[25:17] Laura Crone: The movie's weird because it's Roger Daltrey for like almost the whole time.

[25:21] Jess: Um and it's kind of unclear what it's supposed to be like.

[25:25] Laura Crone: Very early on in the movie that that scene.

[25:27] Jess: It's pretty early on, but yeah, it it's definitely Roger Daltrey.

[25:31] Laura Crone: Um but it's a little clear it's a little unclear whether like he's supposed to be like playing a child and you're just supposed to get it, or like whether he's grown up.

[25:41] Jess: That's fairly my experience of it.

[25:44] Laura Crone: Because it's like very soon after the start of the movie where he's still a little kid, so it's like Yeah, yeah.

[25:50] Jess: Um, yeah, but our production, it was it was it was young Tommy, and then uh dad didn't back out.

[25:58] Laura Crone: Uh so we had you know, similar to the the pro shot that or the yeah, the pro shot that we were looking at, there's like a mirror door in the middle of the stage, and she she walks off with him and like strikes pose and the door closes.

[26:13] Jess: Yeah, I then the door opens again and there's adult Tommy.

[26:18] Laura Crone: Yep, yep, so she uh she made him a man was the uh the description that the adult male creative team told uh our 16-year-old cast.

[26:31] Jess: Damn, he was in there a long time.

[26:33] Laura Crone: So yeah, that was shut up, Andrew.

[26:38] Jess: I am watching the scene right now from your production.

[26:41] Laura Crone: I will say it is whack as hell to see these literal infants drinking like out of flasks and stuff.

[26:47] Jess: Yeah, yeah.

[26:49] Laura Crone: This is this is not a sh uh uh a show that should be put on by like schools or anything.

[26:55] Jess: Yeah, no, really not.

[26:57] Laura Crone: Is Dyson Dolls not available that year?

[26:59] Jess: I well, oh jeez.

[27:01] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[27:02] Jess: Like, oh we got is Tommy.

[27:04] Laura Crone: To be fair, that was it was a slightly different, like it wasn't a school, it was a it was a summer camp.

[27:09] Jess: And they would do, you know, I think it was like uh like a good like dozen shows per session, and there were so it was like three dozen shows a summer.

[27:16] Laura Crone: They had to keep it fresh, but still, uh that was it it could have been handled with a lot more sensitivity to the age of the cast, I think that part in particular.

[27:28] Jess: I mean, they had to make it more risque than than any of the other I don't know.

[27:34] Laura Crone: Who did you play in this production?

[27:35] Jess: Were you just ensemble or were you it was just ensemble, yeah.

[27:38] Laura Crone: Um I I had a couple little bits and pieces.

[27:41] Jess: Like I was I was um I was one of the nurses.

[27:44] Laura Crone: Um I was a a doctor in the sparks sequence, and I had I had exactly you.

[27:51] Jess: I got you right here.

[27:51] Laura Crone: There you are.

[27:53] Jess: That's impressive, yeah.

[27:55] Laura Crone: I yeah, I had you with that sequence right up, so I'm like, oh, there's a there she is.

[28:00] Jess: Yep. Look at you, you're a little baby.

[28:02] Laura Crone: Uh uh solo line.

[28:04] Jess: Uh well, it wasn't a it was like a a duet like with someone else.

[28:07] Laura Crone: I sang the line uh he always gets a replay and never tilts at all.

[28:11] Jess: I just wanna make sure I got you here.

[28:13] Laura Crone: I want to make sure this is you.

[28:15] Jess: I need I need the full approval.

[28:17] Laura Crone: Um that you, right?

[28:20] Jess: No.

[28:20] Laura Crone: No no Yeah, no, I wasn't like the doctor doctor.

[28:24] Jess: Oh, now it's not gonna work.

[28:26] Laura Crone: Now as soon as I'm like scrolling through all this.

[28:28] Jess: Um all right.

[28:29] Laura Crone: I thought that was you.

[28:30] Jess: I'm so sorry.

[28:31] Laura Crone: It's all good.

[28:32] Jess: You're probably on the stage right now at some point.

[28:34] Laura Crone: Yeah, but I mean everyone's on the stage.

[28:38] Jess: Um since we've devolved into pure chaos, let's go even further into the chaos into our favorite segment.

[28:46] Jess: It's time for breviews.

[28:48] Laura Crone: It's time for previews.

[28:53] Jess: It's time for previews.

[28:56] Andrew: But Bree is not here, so Liz.

[28:58] Jess: You we you gotta read the like one half paragraph we have from Brent our Frank Rich.

[29:03] Andrew: Uh my first breeze, you give me a paragraph.

[29:06] Jess: I see how it would you prefer just uh uh uh I don't know what uh the alternative would be.

[29:11] Andrew: I don't I can read it if you want.

[29:13] Jess: No, I will I will read it. I do not mind.

[29:16] Andrew: Okay.

[29:17] Jess: Are we ready?

[29:18] Andrew: Ready.

[29:19] Jess: All right. Frank Rich in their review for the New York Times wrote that Tommy, the stunning new stage adaptation of the nineteen sixty-nine rock opera by the British group The Who is at long last the authentic rock musical that has eluded Broadway for two generations. Hope I die before I get old, sang The Who in my generation. It's early hit single. A quarter century or so later, Mr. Townsend hasn't gotten old so much as grown up into a deeper view of humanity, unthinkable in the late 1960s. Far from being another Broadway excursion into nostalgia, Tommy is the first musical in years to feel completely alive in its own moment. No wonder that for two hours it makes the world seem young.

[30:01] Andrew: That was a very romanticized view of that show.

[30:04] Jess: I don't disagree with it. I think the cast was incredible. Let's talk about the cast of that Broadway run. Alice Ripley and Norm Lewis were in the ensemble. Michael Cerberus played um Tommy. Like that cast was stacked and it's only gotten more impressive with every year. Michael Service was an incredible Tommy. They put a really rough wig on him because he's living that Michael Server's life. Um they figured out wig technology much better by the time he got to Funhome, but he did a great job. Um, thank you, Liz. But now it's time to torture Laura and Andrew for Letterbox Challenge.

[30:37] Jess: It's one star versus five star. Are you aware of how this works, Laura?

[30:41] Laura Crone: Uh I I think so, yes.

[30:44] Jess: Okay. All right. So Liz and I are gonna read reviews to you guys, and you have to guess whether they're one-star reviews or five-star reviews. And these are all from Letterboxd of the Tommy film.

[30:54] Andrew: And Liz, you're gonna you're gonna do uh Laura.

[30:58] Jess: I got Andrew.

[30:59] Andrew: Andrew, you and I are gonna go first.

[31:01] Jess: Okay.

[31:01] Andrew: Yeah, this is very hard. So this is not easy.

[31:04] Jess: All right, you ready, Andrew?

[31:05] Andrew: I'm ready.

[31:06] Andrew: Just because you're good at pinball, doesn't mean you should start a cult.

[31:10] Jess: While they are right, that is kind of the point of the movie. Um, but I'm gonna give it a one because that sounds disappointed.

[31:17] Andrew: That is correct.

[31:19] Jess: All right. Excellent. Liz Liz and Laura, your teens up.

[31:22] Laura Crone: All right, all right, all right. You ready?

[31:24] Jess: I'm ready.

[31:25] Laura Crone: Okay. Sponsored by cocaine.

[31:29] Andrew: Five one.

[31:31] Laura Crone: Ah.

[31:32] Jess: I mean, also accurate. Like, yeah.

[31:34] Laura Crone: This is the problem, is I feel like these are all just gonna be accurate, but could go either way.

[31:39] Andrew: Exactly, exactly. Sponsored by cocaine.

[31:43] Jess: Alright, ready, Andrew?

[31:45] Andrew: Yeah, let's do it.

[31:47] Andrew: Gay culture without the gays.

[31:51] Jess: Yeah. Jeez, I feel like if that's a five stars, that's really bad. But I kind of feel like that's a five stars.

[31:59] Andrew: So I guess I have to give it five stars.

[32:01] Jess: That is correct.

[32:07] Andrew: Don't write that review and then give it five stars.

[32:10] Jess: Now it feels like, yeah.

[32:11] Andrew: It feels very anti-gay.

[32:13] Jess: Oh no.

[32:14] Andrew: It does.

[32:14] Jess: I'm not even sure if it's intending to be, but it's not a good thing.

[32:16] Andrew: No, I don't think it's going to be. Alright, Liz and Laura, you're up.

[32:21] Laura Crone: Okay. I don't like Roger Daltrey with wet hair.

[32:24] Jess: He look he just looks uncanny.

[32:28] Laura Crone: Uncanny. I don't I was very baffled by the use of the word uncanny.

[32:33] Jess: I have I I have a clarifying question. Is that the whole review, or is that a choice excerpt from these are all full reviews?

[32:41] Laura Crone: They're full reviews.

[32:42] Jess: Okay. Uh one.

[32:44] Laura Crone: No, it's fine.

[32:45] Jess: Oh my god. Alright, Andrew, are you ready?

[32:53] Andrew: No.

[32:54] Andrew: Yeah. Best case scenario for a rock opera.

[32:59] Jess: Jeez. It sounds like they don't like rock operas.

[33:02] Andrew: That or they really like this show. Um, I guess I'm gonna go one star.

[33:06] Jess: I feel like that's negative.

[33:07] Andrew: Oh fuck, yeah, it is. I was really trying to give you one that would make you lose.

[33:11] Jess: It makes me mad that you got that one, to be honest.

[33:14] Andrew: I it sounds negative to me. It sounds like they're saying they don't like rock operas.

[33:19] Jess: Alright, Liz, pick a good one for Laura.

[33:23] Laura Crone: Alright. I feel like this is my fault. Laura's the guest. Can be nice to her.

[33:27] Jess: Alright. How is Jack Nicholson the most normal guy in this movie?

[33:32] Laura Crone: Oh.

[33:34] Jess: Oh.

[33:35] Laura Crone: Oh.

[33:36] Jess: Oh.

[33:38] Laura Crone: Oh. I I'm just responding to the review still. I haven't even thought through which direction that's gonna go.

[33:44] Laura Crone: Um I'm I'm not they all sound like one I'm gonna say one.

[33:51] Jess: That's right.

[33:52] Andrew: Hey!

[33:53] Jess: I'm on the board.

[33:54] Andrew: She's on the board.

[33:57] Jess: Alright, Andrew, you're ready.

[33:59] Andrew: I'm ready.

[34:00] Andrew: What? Full review. You found my review?

[34:04] Jess: It's all lowercase.

[34:06] Andrew: What?

[34:06] Jess: What?

[34:07] Andrew: Um Jesus, that could really be either way, huh? Uh I'm gonna say one star.

[34:12] Jess: That sounds like they didn't like it.

[34:13] Andrew: That was a five.

[34:16] Jess: Letterbox makes no sense.

[34:17] Andrew: There are no rules.

[34:18] Jess: There's no strategy to this game.

[34:21] Andrew: It's it is actually true. Sometimes it's like, oh, that's exactly what it sounds like they said. And then other times it's like, oh, it's the opposite of what it sounds like.

[34:31] Jess: That that sounds like it was written by someone uh who did the appropriate amount of drugs before watching this movie.

[34:38] Andrew: And and like five stars. They had that type before they finished the movie.

[34:45] Jess: Oh right. There's some good ones here. Cathartic.

[34:57] Andrew: Five one.

[34:58] Jess: Oh my god. Alright, Andrew, you ready?

[35:04] Andrew: Yeah.

[35:05] Andrew: Nodding and smiling.

[35:07] Jess: Um.

[35:09] Andrew: That sounds like dismissive.

[35:11] Jess: Um. One?

[35:12] Andrew: That's a five.

[35:14] Jess: Oh my god. Alright. You'll never convince me that Mudden Chop's guy at the slot machine isn't Zach Efron.

[35:29] Andrew: It's not, though.

[35:30] Jess: It's not. He's a he wasn't alive. I can't even think of who that is.

[35:34] Andrew: I can't even place this in the proper context.

[35:36] Jess: Oh no. Um five.

[35:39] Andrew: Yes.

[35:40] Jess: Hey! That's someone who likes Zach Efron. He's a good guy.

[35:43] Andrew: Yes. I like Zach Efron. He's playing dads now, it freaks me out.

[35:47] Jess: Emmy Rossom playing Tom Holland's dad really really made me feel gross.

[35:52] Andrew: Yeah. Realizing that Tom Holland is a month younger than me really made me feel gross.

[35:56] Jess: Oh. Don't like that feeling at all. Um ask him for money.

[36:03] Andrew: Okay. I mean, that's as good a reason as any.

[36:10] Jess: I didn't know what you would say next. I did not expect it to be that.

[36:16] Andrew: Alright, you ready, Andrew?

[36:18] Andrew: Yeah.

[36:19] Andrew: What the frickfrack snickety snack was this?

[36:22] Jess: I dash wa? Question mark.

[36:24] Andrew: What?

[36:27] Jess: They were also high.

[36:28] Andrew: Yeah. But they took the wrong drug.

[36:31] Jess: So they're just kind of what the frick frack sniggy snack?

[36:36] Andrew: It's a that? What are like Flanders write this? Like Donnie Osmond himself wrote this.

[36:42] Jess: Diddly doodly.

[36:44] Andrew: I love this sh uh five stars.

[36:46] Jess: That's a five-star review.

[36:47] Andrew: Yes.

[36:48] Jess: Yes. Alright.

[36:53] Andrew: Okay. Nothing could have prepared me for this.

[36:58] Jess: They're talking about the beans.

[37:00] Andrew: Oh man. Yeah. And that's that could guide go either way, because that's like nothing could have prepared me for this. Or it's like nothing. Nothing could have prepared me for this.

[37:07] Jess: Um five.

[37:11] Andrew: Yes.

[37:12] Jess: Hey.

[37:13] Andrew: Yeah. Alright. Andrew, you ready?

[37:16] Andrew: I'm ready.

[37:17] Andrew: I I am pretty sure this review for context is in relation to how they watched the movie. Saw Colin at home in HMB.

[37:27] Jess: Umly musical Batman?

[37:30] Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, what what is HMB?

[37:32] Jess: I don't know.

[37:34] Andrew: You don't even know.

[37:36] Jess: Home movie Bauer.

[37:40] Andrew: Jeez. Okay, so I can't even get proper context for this. I think they're just describing how they watch the movie.

[37:45] Jess: Well, I mean, if I watched a movie at home, it means I probably like wanted to see it.

[37:51] Andrew: I don't know. Alright. Follow that line. That is a one-star.

[37:56] Jess: Okay. They don't like watching movies at their hands.

[37:58] Andrew: Or at the HMB.

[38:00] Jess: What is an HMB?

[38:01] Andrew: I don't know. Alright, we got like three left.

[38:04] Jess: Yeah, three, yeah.

[38:05] Andrew: Okay. Never, but it's very simple.

[38:09] Jess: Okay. You're only one point behind, Laura. You could really take this.

[38:13] Laura Crone: Okay. Beans.

[38:15] Jess: Five.

[38:15] Andrew: Yes.

[38:17] Jess: That was actually impressive.

[38:19] Andrew: Very impressive.

[38:23] Jess: Alright. The boy just needs some good ternussie.

[38:26] Laura Crone: Uh five.

[38:28] Jess: That is correct. It took until right now to realize they're referring to Tina Turner.

[38:32] Andrew: I thought that was just a weird thing to say.

[38:35] Jess: I was trying to, I was that makes sense. That makes sense. Like I had to like say it out loud to be like, oh, I get it.

[38:41] Laura Crone: Uh-huh.

[38:42] Jess: Uh-huh. Alright. Take it. Take it home.

[38:45] Andrew: Okay. I gotta get this one, right?

[38:47] Jess: Yeah, to tie it.

[38:48] Andrew: Okay. He okay. He's just like me. F R.

[38:53] Jess: For real, for real.

[38:54] Andrew: Yeah.

[38:55] Andrew: I'm gonna say that's sarcastic, and it's a one.

[39:01] Jess: No, it's a five.

[39:02] Andrew: Ah damn! Andrew, you have won today's letterbox challenge. But Laura, you came very, very close. So honestly, that was my hat is off too. That was very difficult.

[39:11] Laura Crone: I'm a letterboxed wizard. What can I say?

[39:13] Jess: I feel like that's like our good like touring test of being like, alright, we're we're down to have fun, and now the relief and the rest of the episode usually just flies by because it's like, oh, that's over.

[39:26] Andrew: That's the stress.

[39:27] Jess: That's the real episode right there. You made it. That was our like Normandy Beach event. Like every time we take our guests through that, it's like, oh, I'm gonna enjoy the rest of this.

[39:36] Jess: Alright, you guys. How about we go into a mid show?

[39:40] Andrew: Exactly.

[39:40] Jess: Oh, you you got it. You got it. Yeah. How about we go into a mid show and then we talk about some songs?

[39:53] Jess: Hey guys, sorry to interrupt you in the middle of the show, but we've got a sh shill at you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Andrew, tell us about Patreon and who's on there.

[40:05] Andrew: Oh man. Uh Patreon's where you could go if you wanna give us money. Because I mean, who doesn't want to give us money? Everybody loves giving us money.

[40:12] Jess: Yeah.

[40:13] Andrew: Uh you can get access to uh video versions of our podcast. Uh, you can get access to commentary tracks on on things. You can get what we have a Patreon with cheese with uh some of the people that are here right now.

[40:26] Jess: That is like the most vague. Like the you like subtweeted her.

[40:28] Andrew: I was subtweeting by Andrew Dole.

[40:32] Jess: It's true. Um I wanna put that as my Twitter bio.

[40:36] Andrew: Lots of uh lots of great stuff over at Patreon. You can also request episodes, um, which uh a lot of people like taking advantage of and making us watch uh garbage.

[40:46] Jess: No, no, wait till you watch Daddy Low Long Legs with Sammy.

[40:50] Andrew: That's true. We we've actually gotten some good requests recently.

[40:52] Jess: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tanzia vampires.

[40:54] Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

[40:55] Andrew: But our current patrons are Melissa Goldman, Ewan Cassidy, Jess the Stampede, Layton Accles, John Donna Taskier, Monica Thoreau, Eloise Fitzgerald, Mina Maniri, Brent Black, Lathaniel Stacy Coombe, Joseph Evans Green, Carrie Ahern, Mary Lou Choquette, John Van Alves, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Gracie, Kyle Summers, Jen A C, Scoot and the Technicolor, Dreamcoat, Liz Lynn Alison Stellard, nothing is certain except Beth and Taxes, Desbian, Ren Cohen, Rafael, Martina Salaz, Robert Benjamin, Jessica Teed, Mitchell Young, Chai Teacup, Katie McDonough, Timothy Keys, Chris Marcote, Mimu, Kiji Marie Anastasio, Layla, RJ Norija, Evan Reagan, Charlie B. Patrick Deering, Joe Avery Brinson, Marilyn Brown, LaFemme Fictional, Bjorn Hermans, Mac the Knife, Eric S. Toriana Frasier, Sammy the Most, Lopez, Lyanna Morton, Angela, Kayleigh Blazier, Birdman69, hell yeah, Danielle Smith and Cinema Getting Reviews.

[41:51] Jess: They all give us a little financial support that helps us keep the lights on here at Me School Soup Cheese. If you would like to join them in supporting us, get tons of fun perks, such as page only commentaries, pay uh uh episodes a day early or even earlier. Actually, that's a good point. We're posting our episodes on Monday, so you're getting them a full four days earlier.

[42:07] Andrew: I forgot to bring that up.

[42:08] Jess: That's pretty cool.

[42:10] Andrew: It's fair. And also, I I can just see on the tip of Laura's mouth right now. She she wants to say joy join their Patreon. I could just just see her wanting to say it.

[42:20] Laura Crone: Yeah, you should absolutely join the musicals with cheese Patreon.

[42:24] Jess: I got it as I got it. I did it!

[42:27] Andrew: Don't give that to him.

[42:29] Jess: I didn't realize that. Did you hear about the Patreon with Cheese podcasting? Pretty cool.

[42:33] Andrew: Yeah. You should listen to the Patreon with Cheeses podcast.

[42:39] Jess: Oh my gosh. You don't have to do this just showing for us.

[42:44] Andrew: Also tell everyone that they should subscribe to cool people's Patreon.

[42:47] Laura Crone: Oh, that's so sweet. You think we're cool.

[42:49] Andrew: Yeah. Really, we are the least cool people on the internet.

[42:54] Jess: I disagree.

[42:55] Andrew: Aw.

[42:56] Jess: That's fair. The people, the the fandom menace still exists. But let's get back to the show.

[43:43] Andrew: The overture is probably like my favorite piece of music in the entire show, as weird as it is, and I don't want to linger too hard here, but this is like the part that I'm like, oh, this is gonna be great, and then the movie disappointed me. The show a little less so, but that overture really gets you pumped.

[43:58] Laura Crone: It's a good one.

[43:59] Andrew: Well the overture is just it's just the part where they show the, um, in the stage show, it's like showing the war stuff, and there's not really any lyrics or anything.

[44:08] Laura Crone: No, just musically, it just really is effective. And it's probably the most effective cinematic scene in the entire movie itself.

[44:15] Andrew: Yeah. It's the part they have like they're running for the train and like it feels like it feels like a movie during that, where the rest of it does decidedly does not feel like a movie.

[44:24] Laura Crone: It kind of turns into a lot of music videos after that.

[44:29] Andrew: But yeah, I mean that's the moment where it feels like it might be a narrative film instead of an art film. It gives you not really sure which way it's gonna go just yet. It gives your brain the dopamine of oh boy a narrative, and then the Captain Walker, it's a boy, like that whole sequence is like, okay, we're getting there, and then no.

[44:48] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[44:49] Andrew: I feel like the movie really messed up by having the roles get reversed. You have this big overture building up this captain character, and then he just comes back and dies like immediately.

[45:01] Laura Crone: What I will say for that choice is like I think it's the right choice for that movie. Like I because they want the parents to be like horrible people.

[45:13] Andrew: Yeah, and you know when then you get like the repeated do you think it's alright? And it's like clear that like mom is trying her best, and her boyfriend is just like, yes, honey, do whatever. We can go out. I don't care about my stepson.

[45:30] Laura Crone: Like, yeah. It was a weird choice in the movie and in the musical. Like, depending on where the do you think it's alright goes? Like whether the cousin gets introduced before the uncle or the uncle gets introduced before the cousin.

[45:45] Andrew: Because I remember I think the cousin gets introduced first in the movie, and the uncle gets introduced first in the stage show.

[45:51] Laura Crone: And the stage show made more sense to my brain.

[45:54] Andrew: I think, yeah, I think that's definitely right in the stage show. I'm not, I think that's right in the stage show. Because I remember it's like, where did this cousin come from? Like, at least with if we introduce an uncle, having a cousin be a connective tissue.

[46:06] Laura Crone: It's funny. I only like on this last watch finally put together that like Kevin is Ernie's son.

[46:16] Andrew: Like I don't, I don't know why that just never clicked for me. I think it's literally just because that production that I did as a kid, um, the guy who played our cousin Kevin also played like three other roles. So like when you had the moment of Ernie being like, oh, oh, my like his cousin and I, like, it was just kind of like, oh, like he's listing off other people or whatever.

[46:37] Laura Crone: But like when you see them together, it's like, oh, right. Like, obviously, the cousin is the uncle's son. Like, that's how that works.

[46:47] Andrew: The thing is, a lot of the first half of the first act, if we're talking about the stage show, is kind of just a meandering setup, and it doesn't really get into like proper songs until like the second half of act one.

[47:00] Laura Crone: Yeah, it's just building up to this like part where he finally becomes the pinball.

[47:06] Andrew: Yeah, but that's the end of act one, like as weird as that is. Like he doesn't quite fit a stage narrative in the traditional sense.

[47:13] Laura Crone: Like, there's no I want song or anything like that.

[47:16] Andrew: Right, right. Well, Tommy doesn't even do anything until Act Two.

[47:19] Laura Crone: No, not really. Like, at least as far as like singing or anything like that, because he's not able to.

[47:25] Andrew: Well, it's really Mrs. Walker's story, I think, from the way that it's set up.

[47:30] Laura Crone: Like until Tommy until I'm free.

[47:33] Andrew: Yeah. I do want to talk about the acid queen sequence in every version.

[47:39] Laura Crone: And yeah. Um Andrew, I feel like there's stuff you want to say about the Romani slur.

[47:45] Andrew: Yeah. I there's stuff I don't want to say about it actually. I'm done. Really I don't, I don't think we should say it on, I mean I just don't think it's right like a lot of American media just kind of overused it for like most of the 20th century.

[47:59] Laura Crone: Yeah, I don't think Americans understood what it really meant.

[48:02] Andrew: Yeah. Um and I think they do now because of the internet.

[48:06] Laura Crone: Yeah, just because we've become a more global world.

[48:09] Andrew: The Who is a British band?

[48:11] Laura Crone: So I think they knew what it meant.

[48:12] Andrew: Yeah. But let's not forget that this film was made in America and the Broadway show and all that. Like we could have just not embraced a lot of those gross things.

[48:21] Laura Crone: Yeah. Same with like American traditions. Like we have that robe we give to ensemble members which still uses that slur.

[48:28] Andrew: Um we really just need to figure out a new change in that in theatrical language and I feel like that has been a go-to pass on using it for a while.

[48:38] Laura Crone: Yeah I agree.

[48:40] Andrew: Um on that other hand prostitution of a child pretty whack in a musical am I right?

[48:46] Laura Crone: Well I mean ideally she's not a child in most productions.

[48:51] Andrew: Well she's not a child no sorry sorry I totally I totally was going down I see where you yes yes Tommy is the child. Apologies.

[49:00] Laura Crone: Yeah. It's kind of um I don't know. I think it does kind of work in a dark way, that aspect of it. I don't it's like it's like this father is like, how do I how do I fix my son? And it's like, oh, I'll take him to a prostitute.

[49:13] Andrew: Yeah. It's like, oh wait, that's like not a good idea.

[49:17] Laura Crone: I think it doesn't work in the movie at all. I want to bring that up. I think the scene as Tina Turner is incredible in that scene. I don't think that scene works in that in the movie in any way, shape, or form.

[49:27] Andrew: Well, it's so early in the stage show, it's near the end of Act One. It's like the fourth song in the movie, I'm pretty sure.

[49:35] Laura Crone: Yeah, I saw it as the movie kind of and I will admit this is something that I read it in a thing that I read about the kind of comparing the differences. And when I read this, it made sense to me that it was like the take in the movie is more like she gives him drugs and they make him act as responsive as he's ever been in his life.

[49:56] Andrew: Um so like for a hot second it looks like he's like kind of responding to the world around him in a way that he doesn't.

[50:03] Laura Crone: Um, but it's because he's on drugs.

[50:05] Andrew: Right. It's because she gave him drugs. So like I does it work in the context of the rest of it, but like I do think that's what they're going for. And like I what now that I kind of have that framework for it, it's like, oh, I can see like what you were going for.

[50:21] Laura Crone: You know what? That's much more fair. Like looking back at that scene, that makes a lot more sense.

[50:27] Andrew: Um I kind of get it.

[50:29] Laura Crone: Yeah. I think the fact that they use that word so many times ruins the song.

[50:34] Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, very much so. I would actually say that kind of also just about kind of the show more broadly. Um, and I think this is this is one that's maybe a little newer in kind of the discussion around it. Um, but uh, you know, the repeated use of the word dumb to mean nonverbal, um, is definitely one that's kind of like, I'm not sure how you would do this show if you wanted to mount it now.

[51:01] Laura Crone: Like it it's definitely something for me that kind of lives as a little bit of a historical artifact, and I'm not sure it's one that like we need to maybe continue producing into the future necessarily, just because like I don't I generally don't know what you could do about that.

[51:18] Andrew: Um and maybe that's an extreme.

[51:22] Laura Crone: Um but like uh, I think can like it yeah that's kind of where I land on it is like there's enough in it that is not really updatable that like it might be okay if this is a thing that we look at more as a thing that was than as a thing that we continue to make.

[51:40] Andrew: Yes, and I really appreciate the way that you've put that where it's like we can appreciate this for the context put while putting it into the context it was in. I think a lot of people think that things are a binary of good and bad, which no they aren't.

[51:54] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[51:55] Andrew: Although like I would also say like you know there are definitely people for whom either of those linguistic choices are going to hit a lot harder than they will for like me.

[52:05] Laura Crone: Right.

[52:06] Andrew: And I would not begrudge anyone saying like either of those words are just ones that I do not want to mess with for an hour and a half of whatever and like I think that's perfectly valid as well.

[52:19] Laura Crone: I would be very interested in maybe a Deaf West kind of style retelling um kind of like how they did with the Spring Awakening where they did it all with deaf actors and all that. Maybe if they just kind of lean in that might be the only way I can see of really, really reinventing this is maybe having folks like that take it on and reinvent it and reinterpret it in a way where it gives them the power as opposed to making them kind of a joke, a repetitive joke throughout it.

[52:47] Andrew: Which I don't think it's a joke.

[52:49] Laura Crone: I don't think they're joking.

[52:51] Andrew: I think it is serious.

[52:52] Laura Crone: It is serious, but they say it so many times.

[53:00] Andrew: Um I just I almost feel a little differently about it because I just don't know how else they would say it. Once again, I think you'd have to like hit someone who is like really gonna embrace it and reinterpret it and find their own way to get it.

[53:14] Laura Crone: It would be I feel a little differently because in the song The Acid Queen, the way they're using that word is very racially charged and not being portrayed in a positive light at all. Whereas Tommy is the hero here, and his story is taken very seriously. So it's a little different for me.

[53:36] Andrew: I would be interested in use those words. Maybe someone on the disabled side or is that even the right word. I would definitely be interested in that. I just write like an op-ed or an interesting thing, because I would just be interested to see a reading on it like that.

[53:50] Laura Crone: But you know one thing we all can agree on the pinball wizard fucking rocks.

[53:55] Andrew: He's a pinball wizard that has been twist, a pinball is gonna sound kick so good.

[54:14] Laura Crone: He got new specs on you lose buffers and mails.

[54:18] Andrew: Don't see no back in the paper buffers with smell.

[54:22] Laura Crone: A white paper replay and never flips it all.

[54:25] Andrew: Back in line to please a.

[54:25] Laura Crone: Yeah, it definitely does. It's the best song and maybe the only good song in the whole show.

[54:36] Andrew: Shots fired.

[54:37] Laura Crone: Oh, elaborate on that, sir.

[54:40] Andrew: I don't like The Who that much. So I'm gonna be clear on that.

[54:44] Laura Crone: Um, I'm on Spotify right now. I'm looking at the Tommy album.

[54:48] Andrew: Every single song has about one million listens.

[54:50] Laura Crone: Uh except for Pinball Wizard, which has about uh like a hundred and fifty times more than that.

[54:56] Andrew: Um it's the only song on this entire album that anyone really cares about, and it's actually really good.

[55:03] Laura Crone: So it's fair.

[55:06] Andrew: Yeah. Argument for popularity. I mean, that's like saying, you know, the Dark Knight's the best Batman movie because it made the most money.

[55:14] Laura Crone: But that's true as well.

[55:15] Andrew: Okay, Avengers Endgame is the best movie ever because it made the most money.

[55:19] Laura Crone: See, that's a bad argument, though.

[55:22] Andrew: Suddenly that's a bad argument.

[55:25] Laura Crone: I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about listens, you know, and cultural influence.

[55:30] Andrew: And I'm only using a sample size of like I think there's only 20 songs. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an album that doesn't have a disparity like that.

[55:40] Laura Crone: Um like I I think that it's a particularly that song has been through the sieve of time at this point, so it may be a little bit more pronounced of a difference than something like I don't know, like Olivia Rodrigo's Sour.

[55:53] Andrew: Um, but like I I think that's that's a little bit just sort of like how albums work.

[55:58] Laura Crone: That's true.

[56:00] Andrew: There are album cuts.

[56:00] Laura Crone: There are singles, and the singles get added to more playlists, so they get played more on Spotify.

[56:05] Andrew: It's true, but if you look at like a different Who album, like Who's Next? Uh Baba O'Reilly, uh Won't Get Fooled Again, and Behind Blue Eyes all have far more listens than everything else. Whereas on Tommy, it is just Pinball Wizard. Nobody cares about the other songs here.

[56:20] Laura Crone: I am done with this!

[56:21] Andrew: Pinball Wizard is great!

[56:24] Laura Crone: But you know what is it?

[56:26] Andrew: I will say, when the album was released, it almost immediately after released Pinball Wizard was released as a single, like almost immediately.

[56:33] Laura Crone: So Pinball Wizard was on the braid quicker than the rest of the album, so that was probably a part of it.

[56:38] Andrew: I'm not gonna lie, I think I'm free is a song I like better than Pinball Wizard.

[56:43] Laura Crone: Also, the scene in the movie is like the best scene in the movie.

[56:46] Andrew: Yeah, I'm gonna argue with you there.

[56:49] Laura Crone: Like if you're giant boots.

[56:51] Andrew: The giant boots, he's playing the piano on the pinball machine.

[56:54] Laura Crone: Oh my god, what were you trying to say?

[56:57] Andrew: Oh I'm not sure I would recommend the entire movie. Like if you're like if you saw the wall and you were like, that's not weird enough.

[57:05] Laura Crone: Not enough to watch Tommy.

[57:08] Andrew: Yeah. Where are the beans?

[57:10] Laura Crone: Yeah, if you saw the wall and were like, where are the beans mixed with chocolate sauce? You should watch Tommy in its entirety.

[57:18] Andrew: But like, no matter how you feel about art films based on concept albums, absolutely track down the Elton John pinball wizard sequence because it's bizarre and but like in the delightful kind of way.

[57:33] Laura Crone: It is so so good.

[57:34] Andrew: Honestly, any other songs you want to talk about?

[57:37] Laura Crone: Well, you won't have to talk about it. I love I'm Free.

[57:39] Andrew: It's a good song.

[57:40] Laura Crone: It's Tommy's like one really big number.

[57:44] Andrew: I'm free.

[57:52] Andrew: And free of teamity.

[57:59] Laura Crone: I could tell you what it takes to feel the highest time. You not let's say nothing that's simple. That's that's a that's a statement. I I I really think it's like his big number of like coming out, like look at me.

[58:16] Jess: Well, so like as a character, yeah.

[58:19] Laura Crone: But like for the actor, there's there's amazing journey, there's uh sensation, like there's a lot of stuff going on. There's those are the three that come to mind, but like he's he's got a lot to do.

[58:31] Andrew: I mean I get that, but I feel like this is like the number that they put out there as like the promo for the Tommy stage show. It's like alright, have him sing I'm free. There we go.

[58:40] Jess: Sure.

[58:41] Laura Crone: Like I really like this song. I like like for a character that's just kind of there, but not not doing much. Like it's a big moment, and you feel like the importance of it. Um in a way that's really hard to do when you actually physically see a character on stage, like just having a change in demeanor and performance. That's that's pretty impressive in my opinion.

[59:02] Andrew: Yeah, no, definitely as a character, it's definitely like it's it's his only real number, like as Tom. I mean, not as like the narrator.

[59:10] Jess: Yeah, it's the only one that feels like plot, and uh, that's what my brain gets the dopamine reaction shit. Like, come on! Yes, he is free, he broke the mirror.

[59:21] Laura Crone: Yeah.

[59:22] Andrew: Yeah.

[59:23] Laura Crone: I I'm like personally, I'm a sucker for a I'm a sucker for an omniscient narrator character, so like I love Amazing Journey. That was one that I latched on too.

[59:33] Jess: I mean, that's fair. That song's good.

[59:35] Laura Crone: I mean, I tended to like the uh omniscient narrator when I was younger too. I feel like if I watched this younger, I probably would have been more attached to things like that.

[59:44] Andrew: But now I'm just like, I'm grave Robert out, to be honest.

[59:47] Jess: So I'm just like, uh get me.

[59:49] Laura Crone: Yep.

[59:50] Andrew: Yeah, sure.

[59:51] Jess: Yep, I I can feel you there. Um, I'm beal juiced out too. I I'm sick of people talking to me. I'm sick of I'm sick of the characters talking to me. Tell your story, gosh darn it.

[1:00:02] Laura Crone: Yep.

[1:00:04] Jess: On that note, Liz, it's time to go into the Who Corner, where you tell us some fun facts we might have missed about the Who. Are you ready to do this?

[1:00:13] Laura Crone: Sure.

[1:00:17] Jess: No.

[1:00:18] Laura Crone: What?

[1:00:18] Jess: I don't know. I don't I found these on random websites, so some of them might not be true.

[1:00:23] Laura Crone: I don't know.

[1:00:24] Jess: Free cut that. Say all these are true.

[1:00:26] Laura Crone: All of these are 100% true, and no one can ever use all of them.

[1:00:30] Jess: The who facts.

[1:00:31] Laura Crone: They're all 100% facts.

[1:00:33] Jess: True facts.

[1:00:34] Laura Crone: My my little fact corner.

[1:00:36] Jess: All right, let's go.

[1:00:36] Laura Crone: True who facts facts.

[1:00:38] Jess: True.

[1:00:39] Laura Crone: That might not be true.

[1:00:41] Jess: Okay.

[1:00:41] Laura Crone: The who had two other band names. One of them being the detours.

[1:00:43] Jess: You know what?

[1:00:46] Laura Crone: And the other being the high numbers. Those are both bad band names. I'm glad they were.

[1:00:50] Jess: Tommy by the detours.

[1:00:53] Laura Crone: Um Keith Moon's art teacher once called him idiotic in other respects.

[1:01:00] Jess: Okay. That's a not a nice thing to say about someone.

[1:01:05] Laura Crone: Oh, here's a nice fact about Keith Moon. He inspired Animal from the Muppets.

[1:01:10] Jess: And on that note, that's the end of our facts. We can't get higher than that.

[1:01:13] Laura Crone: That's I did not know that.

[1:01:17] Jess: We love to see that.

[1:01:18] Laura Crone: That's great. Like, we'll never top that, Liz. Why is that not number one?

[1:01:22] Jess: That's incredible.

[1:01:23] Laura Crone: I don't know. I was also gonna say route uh Dultry was in a Shakespeare play in the 80s.

[1:01:28] Jess: Which one?

[1:01:28] Laura Crone: Uh the comedy of errors.

[1:01:30] Jess: Oh.

[1:01:31] Laura Crone: He played one of those twin servants.

[1:01:32] Jess: Man, that's kinda lame.

[1:01:34] Laura Crone: I think most of the stuff I know about the Who any of them is is Keith Moon is like insane.

[1:01:39] Andrew: Uh yeah, I'm pretty sure he did like a ton of drugs, like an absolutely crazy amount of drugs. Like way too many drugs.

[1:01:46] Laura Crone: Yeah, a lot of these facts are just Keith Moon destroying property.

[1:01:50] Andrew: Uh, yes, Keith the Keith Moon Wikipedia page, uh, which has a section titled destructive behavior.

[1:01:57] Laura Crone: Do you know what? I’ll call that a win.

[1:01:59] Andrew: Exploding toilets.

[1:02:01] Laura Crone: There's a whole subsection for that.

[1:02:02] Andrew: Yeah.

[1:02:03] Laura Crone: Oh hang on. The Flint Holiday Inn incident.

[1:02:06] Andrew: Oh no, Michigan! We're getting Michigan.

[1:02:10] Laura Crone: Yeah, there was an incident where he was on a lot of drugs and then tried to destroy every bathroom he could get into at like a hotel or something.

[1:02:17] Andrew: Is this rather one?

[1:02:22] Laura Crone: And this was the Flint Holiday Inn?

[1:02:24] Andrew: I have no idea.

[1:02:25] Laura Crone: Didn't say that.

[1:02:25] Andrew: What is the Flint Holiday Inn incident? I need to know.

[1:02:28] Laura Crone: Uh hang on, I'm reading through real quick. Summarize uh Oh no, the this toilet thing was the um is it the Berlin Hilton?

[1:02:35] Andrew: Oh.

[1:02:36] Laura Crone: Damn. He d he was in Germany. He was in Germany. He needed to destroy all the toilets.

[1:02:41] Andrew: I mean, that's a very German thing to do.

[1:02:43] Laura Crone: Apparently. He started a food fight at a holiday inn in Flint.

[1:02:48] Andrew: And apparently people were getting setting off fire extinguishers, uh throwing things into the swimming pool, destroying a piano. Holiday and management presented the group with a fill for 24,000 in nineteen sixty seven.

[1:02:56] Laura Crone: Liz, translate that to today money.

[1:03:06] Jess: Oh fuck. It's way too what was the amount of money again.

[1:03:09] Andrew: $24,000.

[1:03:10] Jess: In what year?

[1:03:11] Andrew: 67.

[1:03:12] Jess: 67.

[1:03:12] Laura Crone: Oh wow, that was two years before they wrote Tommy yes I I was gonna say probably writing Tommy at the time I was gonna say it's like impressive equivalent to about 200,000 the chaos ended only when police arrived with guns drawn.

[1:03:12] Jess: Oh my god so what is our overall thoughts on the Who and our cheese ratings Andrew you're on first.

[1:03:12] Andrew: Oh my goodness um okay I honestly liked it more than I thought I would because I'm not a huge fan of the Who and I had seen part of the movie before and I wasn't a huge fan of it but the stage show actually fixes a lot of the stuff that I didn't like about the movie and has a bit of a more coherent narrative um and I think that there is some interesting stuff in there to see um also the pinball wizard scene in the movie is amazing and you should watch just that on the bean scene and don't and the bean scene look up the bean scene too bean scene and the pinball wizard scene and but don't watch the rest of the movie because it's really not worth it um maybe don't watch the beans it'll it's traumatic it m yes only watch the beans if you're prepared for it yeah um um honestly what do I get for a cheese rating I know somebody's gonna have a good bean related cheese so I'm not gonna try um I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a uh I'm actually gonna give it a holiday cheese board which is a bit of a weird choice book. Tommy has a holiday camp and Keith Moon is banned from Holiday Inn. So you know what? It works for me. And there's a song about Christmas.

[1:04:54] Laura Crone: Oh, yes, it's the Christmas song, too.

[1:04:55] Andrew: We didn't even talk about it. Tommy's a Christmas movie?

[1:04:56] Laura Crone: Yeah, Tommy's a Christmas movie.

[1:04:58] Andrew: It's like diehard.

[1:05:02] Jess: Just like Die Hard and Batman Returns, it's a Christmas movie.

[1:05:06] Laura Crone: Um, I I love it, honestly. I it it's so funny. I was expecting kind of to circle back to the stage show to the to the musical and feel like it was a little uh like boring and sad as like a person who has become much more of a fan of the album, I think.

[1:05:25] Jess: Um, but I think it actually like I think it it's it's a really unique and cool space, I think, in terms of like musicals that are based on music that started out as recorded music, because that's a that's a really different kind of genre of music and presents a whole lot of different things.

[1:05:45] Laura Crone: And I think a lot of times that transition just doesn't happen very well. Um, but I think in moving Tommy specifically to more of a Broadway style of music, um, it it becomes its own thing that is still very much recognizable as Tommy in a way that I think is really great. Like it it sounds great when people with really kind of showy Broadway voices sing it.

[1:06:10] Jess: Um it doesn't sound cheapened by that.

[1:06:12] Laura Crone: It sounds great with all of these like big sexy harmonies thrown in that are kind of like there in the album, but just turned up to 11 and brought out a little bit more. Um like I would happily just sit down and listen to the cast album, um, even as a person who loves the original album, which is not something that I thought I was gonna come out of this feeling, which is great.

[1:06:34] Andrew: Um, so I'm gonna give it uh a an English cheddar, uh, because it's a it's a cheese with a nice strong flavor that goes surprisingly well in a number of contexts, uh, including on toast with beans.

[1:06:53] Laura Crone: She did it. That was a good one.

[1:06:54] Andrew: That was a good one. Thank you.

[1:06:57] Jess: Alright, Liz, what'd you think of our discussion and your cheese rating of that?

[1:07:00] Laura Crone: I thought your discussion was wonderful. I learned a lot about beans.

[1:07:04] Jess: Especially the beans!

[1:07:06] Laura Crone: I learned so much about beans. Uh it was great to dive into something uh very that uh I would actually like want to look into uh later on after this.

[1:07:16] Andrew: Um, you know.

[1:07:17] Laura Crone: You learn Bree's line perfectly.

[1:07:22] Andrew: Briams, I'm do I I am discount Bree. I am not Bree.

[1:07:24] Jess: Close.

[1:07:26] Andrew: All right, all right, cheese rating.

[1:07:28] Laura Crone: Okay, cheese. I'm gonna leave it moon cheese snacks, which are apparently keto friendly.

[1:07:33] Andrew: Hey.

[1:07:35] Laura Crone: Like Keith Moon.

[1:07:36] Jess: I say Keith Moon friendly. They're also banned from holiday ins.

[1:07:41] Andrew: All right, all right. So I like the Who a lot more than I expected. It's not my style of music, but that stage show really, really was cool. And honestly, I I'm really just grateful Laura gave me an excuse to finally dive into it, and now it is part of my cultural repertoire. So thank you, Laura. That was fantastic. And I really appreciate you.

[1:07:59] Laura Crone: The only cheese rating I can give this. It's actually a tie because I can't pick between these two. So there is a cheese chicken dish at Simply Divine Caterer called Cousin Kevin. So that's just great.

[1:08:15] Jess: And then that's uh good choice.

[1:08:17] Andrew: And then my second one is Tina the Turner, cheese robot, who sorts cheese, and her name is Tina the Turner.

[1:08:25] Laura Crone: She she turns cheeses.

[1:08:28] Jess: What? What are you talking about now?

[1:08:31] Andrew: Well, you have a picture of the show.

[1:08:32] Jess: I do have a picture.

[1:08:33] Andrew: I'm gonna show you all this.

[1:08:35] Laura Crone: Tina the Turner.

[1:08:36] Andrew: Tina the Turner.

[1:08:37] Laura Crone: Oh.

[1:08:40] Andrew: Tina the Turner, cheese robot. Helps keep the wheels of cheddar production in motion.

[1:08:45] Laura Crone: And there she is.

[1:08:46] Andrew: She looks beautiful.

[1:08:47] Laura Crone: She does a great job.

[1:08:48] Andrew: I mean.

[1:08:49] Laura Crone: The cheese queen.

[1:08:50] Andrew: Yeah.

[1:08:51] Laura Crone: She's a queen.

[1:08:51] Andrew: So those are my two cheese ratings. I couldn't pick between them. They were both equally good. None were better than the other.

[1:08:58] Jess: Laura, thank you so much for joining us. You have such incredible content. Please promote it for the world to find.

[1:09:04] Laura Crone: Thank you. Uh yeah, I make videos on YouTube and on Nebula. Uh I'm just Laura Crone on both of those places.

[1:09:13] Jess: Um you can find me on Twitter uh at down with LCC.

[1:09:17] Laura Crone: Uh, and I think that is all of the places that I am right now.

[1:09:21] Jess: Yeah.

[1:09:21] Laura Crone: And I always like to try to recommend something that I know that my audience will like. Um Eurepa, the genetic opera videos is probably one of my top ten favorite videos on the internet. It is one of the most in-depth, very funny, very It's an interesting topic, too.

[1:09:35] Jess: You you didn't know the half of it, man.

[1:09:37] Laura Crone: You know, I didn't know the half of it.

[1:09:41] Jess: I'd have to check that out.

[1:09:42] Laura Crone: Oh yeah.

[1:09:43] Jess: Um but that video is impeccable. But if you want something a little bit more lighter, um a little bit more sincere, the veggie tails video honestly made my Christmas season a lot better. So that was very, very nice.

[1:09:55] Laura Crone: Thank you for that. Very good video.

[1:09:59] Jess: Thank you so much. Laura, you make great content, sincerely, and I don't just say that to everyone.

[1:10:05] Laura Crone: Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[1:10:07] Jess: And you make a great podcast.

[1:10:08] Laura Crone: Thank you. I hope to have you back on again sometime. Because once you're on five times, you get free cheese.

[1:10:12] Jess: So I I have to keep promoting that because that is something that does happen and has happened consistently.

[1:10:20] Laura Crone: How many people have gotten the cheese now?

[1:10:22] Jess: Again. Grace will be the next one if she ever comes back on. Like when she comes back on, she'll get hers.

[1:10:28] Andrew: Brent and Adam.

[1:10:30] Jess: Ah.

[1:10:30] Andrew: Both got it.

[1:10:31] Jess: They both got the cheese. And Grace will be next. Laura, you could be the next one.

[1:10:34] Laura Crone: I do love free cheese.

[1:10:35] Jess: Heck yeah. And it's nice cheese. I don't I don't skimp out. We get you some good stuff.

[1:10:39] Laura Crone: Excellent.

[1:10:40] Jess: But you know who else likes free cheese? Our wonderful patrons. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes, Spotify, Sitcher at Musicals with Cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals. We're on Patreon at Musicals and Cheese, which has been Laura Crone approved. We're on Instagram at Musicals with Cheese, YouTube page Musicals for Cheese. We have a patron only podcast called Patreon with Cheese with me and Les Eston, and it's great. Also Laura Crone approved. Email us at musical theater lives at gmail.com. Our title card is created by the amazing Jolene Casco over on Instagram. Go follow them at Jolene Casco. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio. Thank you for keeping track of that, Juliet, because I was not going to do it.

This show is produced by the wonderful, the incredible, the sadly absent Brianna Jones. Our theme songs were created by Robin Nash of IOU Music UK. Go send them some love. Thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform for not kicking us off for talking about beans too much.

[1:11:33] Andrew: Alright, you guys, anything else you want to say before we wrap this on up?

[1:11:37] Laura Crone: Beans.

[1:11:39] Andrew: Beans, beans, and nothing but beans, parsley, peppers, cabbages, and celeries, and fetal farts and fennel-lettuce, and especially the beans.

[1:11:46] Jess: She got it. She got where I was going.

[1:11:49] Andrew: Hey.

[1:11:53] Jess: And what's the other one?

[1:11:54] Andrew: It justifies the beans.

[1:11:57] Jess: My best Joanna Gleason.

[1:11:59] Andrew: We'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese.