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[0:00] Leah Walsh: Hi, and welcome to The Compass, the podcast documenting the struggles of life as an artist.

[0:05] Leah Walsh: I'm Leah Walsh. Hi, everyone. I hope that spring is reaching you a little bit wherever you are. It's showing up here and it's giving me a little bit of hope and a little bit more energy. I hope you feel that way too. My guest today is Erin Cronican. She is an actor, director, and the executive artistic director of The Seeing Place Theater here in New York City. We met through a mutual acquaintance, and she was gracious enough to come on the podcast to share her experiences with the dark side of building her creative life, continuing to run a theater company, and produce quite a bit of work virtually during the pandemic. The importance of sharing knowledge and skills with other artists and finding comfort in continuing to create while living with breast cancer.

So thank you, Erin, so much for sharing. You can see what she's up to at ErinCronican.com, or the website for their theater company is www.seeingplacetheater.com. I hope you enjoy the 172nd episode of The Compass.

[1:19] Leah Walsh: What do you do to try to keep from going to the dark side as an artist?

[1:24] Erin Cronican: Uh well, my kind of tongue-in-cheek answer is bourbon, because bourbon treats me very well. Um, but no, I feel like recognizing that I'm a human being with lots of different feelings and emotions and that there is definitely a dark side to me, and that I don't have to be afraid of it. Um, that I can recognize that we all have dark feelings. You know, I have anxiety and I have depression, just like a lot of actors happen to have. Um, and just being able to recognize that and not be afraid of it makes it a lot easier, I feel like.

[2:06] Leah Walsh: Yeah. When I say the dark side, what comes to mind first in relation to your artistic life and just for you as an individual?

[2:17] Erin Cronican: I think of it as kind of if you are so empathic and you're so used to putting yourself in the shoes of other people, I think that there can sometimes be a despair that comes up from that when you can see how difficult things are and how different we all are, and also seeing the world for what you wish it could be can sometimes be full of despair, and that's what I think of.

[2:43] Leah Walsh: Um, what sorts of things do you do in your day-to-day life in kind of an organizational sense or like a structural sense to structure your days that you find help you deal with that? They could be really tiny things, but I know that they all add up.

[3:03] Erin Cronican: They do. I feel like I would go crazy without my planner, just so that if I think about something that I want to do or think about something that I want to brainstorm on, I can write it down and have it in one central place, and that way I don't have to keep mulling over it in my brain. I can just have it down there and know that I'm gonna get to it. Um, that makes me feel organized and kind of put together. Um, and then I think also giving myself time for the sort of brain dump sort of thinking. Um, so I don't always have to be doing to-do list items. I can also sit and just think and sit and be inspired by things, sit and read, sit and just, yeah, just think about things. And that is valuable time as well.

[3:56] Leah Walsh: Yeah. We're so stressed in our culture to always be productive and obviously this year with the pandemic I feel like that's come more into focus to the front of people's minds how stressful that is and how antithetical it is to ourselves as human beings I think.

[4:14] Erin Cronican: That's so true and how we were expected in this pandemic, well, as though it were time off like vacation that we're supposed to be productive and all the people who are kicking themselves now as we see this light at the end of the tunnel that we were supposed to have written the novel or done the thing and you know I feel like we've all gone through a million different stages in the past year of and it's all individual but um there was a stage where it seemed like people were treating it like an artist retreat. And it's like what are you what what are you creating that's brand new here what are you don't waste this time and um I know for me a lot of it I just felt like I need to take a step back.

[4:56] Erin Cronican: Exactly, exactly. I mean I've done a lot of creating throughout this time less than I wanted to because of that exact pressure that you're talking about. But um, but it's not a vacation this is a trauma, a collective trauma even.

[5:15] Leah Walsh: Have you been in New York this entire time?

[5:19] Erin Cronican: Yes. Yes. I was um, my mother actually passed away right before the pandemic started.

[5:25] Leah Walsh: Oh, so I was in Florida when it first started.

[5:27] Erin Cronican: Thank you. I was in Florida at the very beginning of March trying to settle her affairs and got back to New York on March 6th. So it was just at the point where we were thinking about wearing masks, but weren't quite yet, and Broadway wasn't shut down yet. So it was so confusing this mix of grief and fear, you know, from my mother's death and then and then what was going on, you know, and then also wondering whether maybe my mother had COVID and maybe that was what contributed to her very quick demise because she died of respiratory failure.

[6:09] Leah Walsh: And so one just doesn't know. You just, you know, you can't really guess.

[6:16] Erin Cronican: Right, you never got any clarity on that.

[6:19] Leah Walsh: No, because it was too soon. She died in February of last year, and it just, uh, it didn't make any sense. There weren't any cases of in Florida, so who knows, but yeah, so I've been in New York ever since then. I know that you've been doing quite a lot of work with your theater company, The Seeing Place, correct?

[6:41] Erin Cronican: Yes, yes. What has that been like to keep that up in a virtual sense? What have you been finding through that process? Has it been feeding you or has there been periods where the producer hat has been a little more draining during this time?

[6:55] Erin Cronican: I think yes, um, it is draining. Um, partially because we're all dealing with this, like I said, this national trauma, and so every person that's working on the project needs just a little bit more support and a little bit more TLC. Um, and so I think that while you would typically be doing that as a producer supporting people's concerns and dealing with what other personal issues that they might be having, everyone is going through a personal issue now, so trying to take that into consideration during rehearsals is challenging, but I also think that it's provided a respite and a sense of purpose to people which has been really just so valuable. Um, and because we're a social justice theater company, we're also doing good while we're doing these productions, money and efforts are going toward these nonprofit organizations that we're supporting and it gives our actors a sense of that theater can really make a difference and it isn't just, you know, a bunch of artists living out their dreams.

[8:24] Leah Walsh: Maybe because we don't know each other personally, there's so many things I want to cover, but can you tell me a little bit right off the bat about when you started the company and what made you start it and kind of the mission statement? I love that you guys are supporting these nonprofits with your work.

[8:40] Erin Cronican: Sure. Um, well for us, um, it was started like a lot of theater companies get started, um, with a group of artists who weren't seeing the kind of theater they wanted to do out there in the world, and so it kind of started accidentally where we were doing readings um once or twice a week of just plays, and one week we got together and um a group of actors read through a play, and after this play was read, we all sort of went, "Oh, this is a really good play. We should probably try to do this play," and then we tried to um fundraise for it and found that people don't really want to give money to just individual artists, they want to give them to an entity, and if we wanted to get money as an entity, we probably should come up with a name. So we came up with a name and then um, and our name, The Seeing Place, is the literal translation of the Greek word for theater.

[9:44] Erin Cronican: So theater literally means the place we go to see ourselves. Um, and so we came up with that name and started fundraising, and then after we did our first show, it was such a success that we realized, oh, maybe we can continue doing this, and just started doing more productions, and then it wasn't for another year or so that we started to think of ourselves like a seasonal theater company that would have seasons of plays and try to do multiple things in a year. Um, and that's how it started, and that was back in 2009, so we've been going now almost 12 years.

[10:25] Leah Walsh: That's incredibly impressive. Obviously, we all have friends who've started theater companies that have like come and gone within this time period. Um, how has having that outlet affected your work in the more traditional like auditioning for other people lane? Did having that thing that was yours um take away from it, build up your confidence in it?

[10:52] Erin Cronican: Well, it's taken away from it in some cases, and then it's contributed to more work in some other cases. So I had determined pretty early on upon moving to New York that I wanted to be a New York actor that didn't travel. Um, and that was mostly at the time due to the fact that I had an elderly dog and I didn't think that my dog could travel with me. So I was looking for local opportunities, and so The Seeing Place just made sense because I could do a production with The Seeing Place, and then I could do a production elsewhere, and it wouldn't impact the work that I was doing with the theater company.

[11:31] Erin Cronican: I could choose to not do a play as an actor but still produce it or still direct, um, depending on what I was doing outside of that. So, yes, in a way it's kept me from traveling. I don't do a lot of regional work um because I want to be here, and of course, the pandemic has changed what here means. Now I realize we could probably be anywhere and be doing something, but um no, but before the pandemic, that's kind of a radical choice. It shouldn't be, but our industry is one that asks you to make those kind of extreme um sacrifices in your lifestyle, asking you to just leave your home for six months or do you know take this job for a lower paycheck than you would want all those things? And I definitely made less money because I made that that uh that option because there's not really a middle class um lifestyle as an actor in New York City.

You either are doing Broadway or off Broadway, which would be considered like an upper middle class lifestyle, or you're doing what we're doing, which is the independent theater route, which does not pay your bills. And you know you you can pay as much as you think you can pay, but most of us have day jobs or most of us have some other sort of savings that keep us you know solvent while we're doing this kind of work.

[13:01] Leah Walsh: Can I ask how you've um kind of quilted together the financial aspects with day jobs over the years?

[13:07] Erin Cronican: Yeah I've done a lot of different things. Mostly um up until the pandemic actually I was a career coach. So I ran a company called the Actors Enterprise and coached actors individually on all of the things that make a business run. So I used to you know joke that I handle everything that happens when you're not acting so all the marketing um teaching them how to um think of themselves as a business so that you could continue to get more jobs. And that was very successful for 12 to 13 years when I was running that and then the pandemic just made me think is this really what I want to be doing you know and because I was gonna have to transition everything online I just didn't didn't think that that was exactly what I wanted to do.

And now of course everything is online and that that's it's an interesting um change to how I I think in fact a lot of career coaching will stay online I imagine um because it's so convenient for the actors not to have to travel away from their home or wherever but um but yeah so that was something that I did um I've also done um a lot of um simulation work so like standardized patient work at a hospital uh um or simulation work with um uh law offices who are trying to train their um their newest lawyers or with uh law schools um I've done a bunch of that kind of stuff as well.

[14:45] Leah Walsh: Can I ask because I'm sure a lot of the listeners are curious how you get into that because I feel like it's that you have to find the side door to those opportunities.

[14:53] Erin Cronican: I do. Although when I I had known about the opportunities in medical schools um prior to moving to New York. So when I moved to New York I got on the hunt and I was like all right I need to find this kind of work so I just started writing to the medical programs at the various schools around New York. Um but the the one I ended up spending the most time at was at Mount Sinai and they post everything on actors access.

[15:22] Leah Walsh: Okay.

[15:23] Erin Cronican: So that's where they have the enough yeah I actually just saw an acquaintance of mine in Indianapolis who I had done a regional show with years ago posted on Facebook because she does a lot of that work there and she was able to get her vaccine early because she was having to go into the medical environments.

[15:41] Leah Walsh: Oh wow pretty incredible yeah absolutely yeah, it's um I'm still working with them now, though we're doing stuff remote because there is so much telehealth that it makes sense that I can still be doing that work via telehealth, so that's part of what I'm doing. And then um my other day job now is I help a film production company with their marketing.

[16:04] Erin Cronican: So I do a lot of their um social media and help them as they're creating marketing um like pitch decks for their different projects and and did you just get into the marketing side of things just through your own experience as an actor, or was that something that you had had um training with in college or had been involved with in some other way?

[16:27] Erin Cronican: Um it was mostly self-taught, but I've worked um I started out instead of going the bartender server route, which I still surprised that I didn't do that. Um I started out in the corporate world and I was working for a national advertising publication, so a magazine that was all about advertising and um built my skills in sales, marketing and advertising through that. Um and then I just was kind of a computer geek and I wanted to teach myself how to do web design and graphic design, so I just got the programs and started teaching myself. Um and then I had the skill set. So I started working in the nonprofit world as a communications director and was doing all of our own PR and all of our graphics and our website, and so just ended up ha doing that as a job in that case.

So I just got a lot of on the job training with that, and then um well training myself really. I didn't have anything to teach me. It was all trial and error. Um, and now I just sort of do that, you know. For our theater company, I do all of our graphics and um we also have um in our ensemble I train uh our ensemble members in certain areas of um the business as well so that all of our ensemble has a vested interest in what we're doing and has a say in what they're doing artistically because they're building it from the ground up just like we are as producers.

[18:10] Leah Walsh: That's wonderful. Especially today I feel like people with social media and everything need to use that sort of thinking so much in their work. It's great that you're able to pass along those skills.

[18:21] Erin Cronican: Yep absolutely because we want actors to feel like um they're not just showing up as talent they do do that they do show up as talent but they also have a say in how everything goes so that they're not is we're fully actor driven our theater company we don't have anybody in the company who isn't an actor at least part of the time um and that way everyone feels like there isn't some administration that's making decisions um they are making the decisions. We do have a hierarchy in terms of like how long people have been in the company those people have a little bit more power than those who just start which is natural because it takes time to get to know the theater company and um and find your place within it but um you know when we build our seasons we build them around the people that we have when we make decisions, we share those decisions and talk about budgeting. We talk about um how the decisions end up getting made, and really detail we detail that information to everyone, and so that people feel like they know what's going on, they have that full power.

[19:37] Leah Walsh: Yeah. Have you learned any lessons about boundary setting with the company?

[19:43] Erin Cronican: Um, since you are so involved in it, I can imagine that um, you know, it can just take over all of your free time. Have you learned anything about setting boundaries just to keep keep your give your life a little bit of space within all the work that you're doing for that company?

[20:02] Erin Cronican: You know, there um one thing that complicates it in the most wonderful way is that my co-founder who is the producing artistic director, I'm the executive artistic director, is also my life partner. And so, and we live together, and so it is truly like the same place as our child. So it never quite goes away, it always is requesting our attention. Um, we do try to take some time away occasionally, but um, as a company that trains together on a weekly basis, um, it is always going. There isn't a time when things aren't happening at the same place, and so um, yeah, boundaries would be really good. Um, but I think I think it's like anybody who has a small business that is trying to grow, that there always seems like there's something to do, like we're never done, we're never at a plateau level where we're like, you know, we're really comfortable right here.

This is fine. We're still trying to grow and still trying to make you know raise our budget so that we're able to pay even more of a living wage. We're trying to um be able to go up a contract with the union so we can perform for longer, so we don't have these short little contracts. Um, there's always something that we're trying to do.

[21:23] Leah Walsh: That's so impressive. I have a couple friends who run um companies with their partners, and it's it's like beautiful to see, and it's also a mystery to me how they make it work. Especially during the pandemic when there now we're we have no space. It's just you know, two people on top of one another trying to work together. But luckily we get along really well.

[21:47] Erin Cronican: So there aren't that many arguments, and in fact, if if there are arguments, it's almost always over the vision of the theater company because we both are strong personalities who have really um kind of big views about what we want, and they don't always go together. So trying to find a way to um make those work um is definitely a challenge.

[22:08] Leah Walsh: In some ways, I'm sure it would just strengthen your communication as a couple because you're having to deal with these more um I don't know what the right word is, but these these larger debates on your work side as well.

[22:23] Erin Cronican: Yes, absolutely. And and it's something to you know that the relationship is fine by itself. You then you get to to us as co-running a theater company, and that's where the conflict is. That's kind of funny to me. Um, but I think that's because we're both, like I said, um, really passionate artists who have slightly different views about what we want from the theater company. Um, each of us in the theater company, including our ensemble, are tasked with really examining what do we want from the company?

[22:53] Erin Cronican: What do we want the company to give us, and what do we want to give back to the company? So the company has its own identity outside of the individuals that are in it, um, and it's capable of providing quite a lot in terms of purpose, in terms of um artistic value. Um, there's just a lot that if we put in X amount of effort, then we're gonna get so much more out of it.

[23:21] Leah Walsh: Tell me a little bit about where you're from and did your family support your choice to go into the arts.

[23:27] Erin Cronican: Uh I'm from California um originally, um, although prior to the age of eight, I traveled around all over the place because my father was in the military, but we settled in California when I was eight. So to me, that's the formative years were in Southern California in the San Diego area. Um they were supportive um to the extent that they were very impressed by artists and thought that was great. We don't have um prior to my siblings um who are both um visual artists um in terms of what they're skilled at. I am not a visual artist. They they got all those skills there. Um but um my parents were very impressed and very supportive in like taking classes and um, but they were very nervous about me making enough money, you know.

So um I that's why I think I went the corporate route when I got out of college rather than trying to really pursue acting a hundred percent of the time. I was pursuing acting in the community theater realm um for the first couple of years after college. Um but they did let me do it.

[24:41] Leah Walsh: Did you major in theater?

[24:43] Erin Cronican: I did, I did. So I was allowed to do that, thank goodness. Um I was very lucky, and of course, we look back now and I realize, you know, what a privileged position that was to be uh in that my parents, um, between my parents and me, we were able to get loans, um, you know, to cover what was a very expensive university for me to go to. Um, and I'm feel very grateful and I'm trying to give back now as much as I can. Um, because I know a lot of people who have not been that a lot of people who haven't been that lucky.

[25:24] Leah Walsh: Were they able to come and see any of your work in New York?

[25:29] Erin Cronican: Um, my mother did. Um, my father passed away shortly after I moved to New York, which was very sad since his family was born here. Um yeah, so we never got a chance to spend any time in New York together, but um, but my mother did. Um, she got to see one show that I did here in New York back in 2012. So it was a long time before that. She usually came out around the holidays, and we don't tend to do holiday shows. But she was a good thing. It's a great time to visit the city though.

[26:00] Leah Walsh: It is, yeah.

[26:01] Erin Cronican: Yeah. Um, so she was very impressed. And um the play that we had done at that time was Danny in the Deep Blue Sea, which is a um quite a violent play, a heartbreaking and violent play. Um, and she was just like, I don't know how you do this. I don't know how I even watched that for an hour and a half, you know. It was uh, you know, a far cry from what I had done in musical theater in California.

[26:30] Leah Walsh: Right.

[26:31] Erin Cronican: She's like, this isn't what I remember.

[26:35] Leah Walsh: Can we talk a little bit about your health?

[26:37] Erin Cronican: Yes.

[26:38] Leah Walsh: Is that okay?

[26:39] Erin Cronican: Yes, absolutely. I know you've been dealing with cancer the last couple years. And you had mentioned to me when we spoke on the phone before this chat that you had found a lot of solace in your work with the theater company. Can you tell me a little bit about how your work as an artist has affected your process with um just dealing with your sickness or your healing process?

[27:05] Erin Cronican: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I so uh I was initially um diagnosed with cancer with breast cancer in May of 2015. Um it was stage 2B, which is considered an early stage cancer, completely curable. Um, but um this type of cancer that I had is called triple negative um breast cancer, and that means that I was negative for all three markers, are all three things that that are known to cause breast cancer. So there are um estrogen, your your cancer could be estrogen receptive, it could be progesterone receptive, or it could be receptive of this protein called HER2. And if it's any of those things, then the doctors know exactly how to treat it because it is because you can treat those those particular receptors.

Um, but I was negative for all three of those things, so it's called triple negative. Um, triple negative is much more um aggressive, it tends to impact younger women and um black women, um, most and Ashkenazi Jewish women, um much more uh frequently, and um it has a higher incidence of recurrence where it will come back as stage four. So um, so I went through surgery and chemotherapy and radiation at that time. Um I went through um with all of that, took about a year to go through that, and I was still performing with the theater company at the time. I was in chemo and had my wig on and you know was just performing, and no one would really have any idea if they didn't know what was going on with my life.

[29:01] Leah Walsh: Um I just were you open with the company throughout that period?

[29:05] Erin Cronican: Yeah, I I told them pretty quickly after I was diagnosed because I was just about to step into rehearsal when I got the phone call from the radiologist who said yes, it's cancer, which they do do over the phone, surprisingly, because they did that with me. I did not know that that would be that was a thing. Um, but yeah, so then I was cancer free for uh about two and a half years and then got rediagnosed as stage four um in November of 2018. Um I was very I was I was very um sick when I got rediagnosed. Um so I got kind of like sick before I got better again. I finally found a chemo uh regimen that worked for me in March of 2019. So I was very sick from November of 2018 when I got rediagnosed up until maybe June of the following year when the chemo start finally started to kick in.

Um but I was still doing shows at that time as well. Um because I was just like if cancer's gonna take my life someday, I don't want it to take my livelihood right now. So I, you know, just decided I'm just gonna do the best that I can try to you know be as healthy as I can possibly be. And I was able to make it work. Um we talked with the cast. We ended up doing the play Um The Maids by Jean Genet, um, which is um a shorter play, thankfully, but it is like a lot of dialogue, and the two sisters I played one of the sisters, um, don't pretty much don't leave the stage the whole time. There is a short time when I left the stage. Um but um, you know, we had a a conversation about how what my limitations would be because of my illness and how we would make that work with the story.

Um, and we found ways that we could justify that and not um impact the the patron experience, you know, where I didn't feel like I had to let people know, and by the way, Erin Cronican today is a right, you know, dealing with cancer, and so um but also make it doable for you. And make it doable for me and for the the story, you know, so that um you know my character was a little bit less impetuous um so a little bit less so the my lack of really high energy that I would typically have um made sense for this particular character who was a little more measured a little more mature um and so we felt like we could justify that and um and it ended up working out really well um it was very difficult because I was trying so hard to pretend like I was healthy and I just wasn't you know so but since then um I've been very lucky you know we've uh the chemo has been working well so most people would have no idea that I had stage four cancer that I were living with that at this point.

[32:31] Leah Walsh: Um so like I said I'm very lucky.

[32:34] Erin Cronican: Yeah.

[32:34] Leah Walsh: Yeah. But what a crazy few years for you to now have this pandemic be going on on top of all of that.

[32:42] Erin Cronican: It's very frustrating because I feel like I'm healthy and I should be able to perform. And I'm sure you just want to be doing the things that you want to do right now with your time.

[32:53] Leah Walsh: Yeah.

[32:53] Erin Cronican: Yeah. And everyone is like that of course but when you think I you know the the prognosis for somebody with stage four breast cancer is three to five years. And so in November of this year I'll have that will be three years. So you think well how much time do I actually have? Will I be one of those rare people who has eight to ten years? Will I not be? Will I get very sick soon and you know die in six months? I don't actually know. Now no one actually knows, but we have this, you know, this false senseful that we do.

[33:30] Leah Walsh: Yep.

[33:31] Erin Cronican: Exactly. Where you think, oh, a year from now, when the pandemic is completely done and we're back to quote unquote normal, then I'll have a normal life, but I actually don't know what my life looks like in a year.

[33:43] Leah Walsh: Right.

[33:44] Erin Cronican: My I live from scan to scan and every scan um will tell me what my next three months will look like you know. Have you found any I'm sure you have a strong support system within your own community, but have you found any people who are going through something similar who have been able to be not a mentor is it the right word, but a resource and someone to lean on who's going through has some idea of what you're dealing with?

[34:19] Erin Cronican: Um I haven't met anybody who's in my situation personally because in the cancer center I don't really mix with other people. I don't get a chance to meet them. I do there are some Facebook groups that have people who are dealing with stage four cancer. So I kind of lurk around there and get information there. But I haven't met anybody personally who's dealing with the same exact thing.

[34:52] Leah Walsh: Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate you being open to sharing all of that with me and with everybody who's listening. What sort of thoughts are you having about how you want to tell stories now at this stage of your life and with what you're dealing with with your health? Has your approach to the kind of material you want to do as an actor or as a director, or if you've been feeling drawn to writing personal stories, um, have you felt a shift in that way at all?

[35:27] Erin Cronican: I think I've just felt more of a sense of purpose for the things I always wanted to do. I don't know that anything has shifted except to say that um I decided when I got diagnosed that I was really gonna focus on the theater company as my main legacy. So that if I'll feel like I've done my job, if when I die the theater company can continue on, that it doesn't make my partner feel like, well, that's it. I don't have Erin now, so we're gonna just close the thing down. If I could get us stable enough to be able to continue and have enough of a um just enough staying power, I guess, then that that will feel um right to me. So I've transitioned away from some of the day job stuff that I've done to put more of the energy into the structure of the theater company.

Um, in terms of the artistry, um, it's just more just I'm more emphatically want to do what I want to do. Yeah. You know, I'm probably less inclined to do something just to do it because I feel like I've paid my dues in many ways. Um, that I don't need to pay those kinds of dues anymore. Um, prior to getting sick, I was very lucky I was performing off Broadway in two um as a cover for two musicals that were running um at St. Luke's Theater. Um, and it was so convenient because at St. Luke's Theater, those shows are um perform at all different times throughout the day and throughout the week. That the space is shared by five or six different musicals at once, and so the musicals I was working on only had two performances each.

So I was able to do stuff with the Seeing Place, and then we just scheduled our performances where they wouldn't conflict with those performances. And so I was working for and I could get health insurance, and I was getting, you know, the equity off Broadway wages, and also working at the same place, and that was like ideal finding a way to do that. So if I could do that again, that would be really cool.

[37:51] Leah Walsh: Yeah, that's perfect. Are there any lessons you've learned over like the last five years that you're really proud of that you'd like to share? Something large or small.

[38:05] Erin Cronican: That's such a good question. Um, I think that generally, I think that the more um I feel more successful when I have kind of a guiding um like a guidepost um for my life. So I had figured out a couple of years before that there was this through line in everything that I felt really um passionate about, that they all kind of it kind of stemmed from the same place, which was a sense of feeling empowered and a real and an interest in empowering others. And so that became sort of like a personal mission statement to judge everything past. So if someone were to come to me and say, hey, I'm interested in working with you on this kind of project, or could you help me out with this project? I could look at, well, is it something that empowers other people, or do I feel empowered by doing it?

And if the answer was yes, then it made sense for me to do that thing. If the answer was no, then I could feel comfortable to pass on it. Um, and it just I love that makes so makes things so much easier for me. So for me, um I would always recommend that people try to figure out what's their kind of personal ethos, what's the thing that gets them out of bed every day, and how do you because as an artist, you'll get asked to participate in so many things, and we're told never say no because you never know what opportunities might come your way, but you know, you can't do everything. Yeah, you can't serve yourself and other people by doing everything. So figuring out what is the core that makes you you and it makes you happy, um can help making those decisions.

[40:00] Leah Walsh: Yeah, that's wonderful. When you do feel like you're kind of going to that dark place or maybe not feeling as inspired or as empowered, are there any tangible things that you reach for again and again, like a book that you reread or music you listen to or a place you go, something like that? Can kind of shake you out of it?

[40:21] Erin Cronican: It depends on where the darkness is coming from. Um, most of the time um I just try to consume art as much as I can. So you know, right now in the pandemic, it's it there is less theater that I can see, but usually seeing theater would be something that would spark um that joy again and that sense of um power and that sense of being able to do what I want to do. Um, and now it can be I I do watch some online theater, but I can also watch a movie or listen to music. Um that will definitely help. But but getting inspired by a piece of art because even if the art is not to my liking, if I feel like, oh, I don't like this as much, then that spurns me. That makes me think, oh, I can create something even better. Um, and if it's something that really is to my liking, then I just want to aspire to to be that or to do that. Right.

[41:22] Leah Walsh: Um, this is not the next question I'm planning to ask, but do you remember what the last piece of theater was that you saw before the lockdown last year?

[41:30] Erin Cronican: Yes, I saw Hades Town. I saw Hades Town on March 11th in the matinee, and I knew I heard rumblings in the audience that someone at another theater had had COVID and that probably being in a theater was a really stupid idea at the moment. Um and I remember then going out and taking myself out for dinner after that matinee at a nearly empty restaurant. I sat at the bar and everyone was just talking about it. And then of course, next day Broadway was shut down.

[42:04] Leah Walsh: Oh my goodness. So interesting.

[42:07] Erin Cronican: I know. I've been I've obviously with last week being the one year anniversary of that all happening, it's just been rolling through my mind. I think I saw oh, I would have to look up the title of the play. I saw a beautiful play at the Atlantic, I think on the Tuesday of that week. And I remember kind of just once I I was like, oh, this is gonna be fine. I was like seeing a friend in the show, but then getting there and realizing how many people must have canceled their tickets, like how spread out everyone was, and just having that uneasy feeling. It's very bizarre to think about now.

[42:41] Leah Walsh: It really is. Um, well, and then the final question that I usually ask is there a piece of art of any genre that you've consumed recently that you want to recommend.

[42:57] Erin Cronican: Hmm. Uh I did just see uh Sound of Metal, uh, the movie with Riz Ahmed, which what uh he was just nominated for an Oscar, um, the first Muslim to be on to be nominated for a best actor Oscar. Um, and it was beautifully sound designed. Um, it is about uh uh a drummer who starts to lose his hearing.

[43:28] Leah Walsh: Oh, I have heard of this.

[43:30] Erin Cronican: And it is uh it is very uncomfortable to watch because the sound design is so beautiful that you really get immersed in what this character is going through. Um, and it made me feel so grateful um that I still have my hearing. Um, not to um, you know, I don't not trying to fetishize uh the this idea of like disability and and which I know happens a lot in films that are about disability. But um, and I'm certainly not trying to um make it sound like being deaf is this horrible thing that we have to overcome, but it really did um have a beautiful message to it and made me think about my own mortality, made me think about what I appreciate in my life, and uh and it that's the kind of art that I want to create.

[44:29] Leah Walsh: Okay, I have to see it.

[44:31] Erin Cronican: Yes.

[44:32] Leah Walsh: Um, well, Erin, thank you so much for having this conversation. I really appreciate your time and your openness.

[44:38] Erin Cronican: Thank you. I really appreciate um being on. I really love talking with you.

[44:52] Leah Walsh: Thank you for listening to the Compass Podcast. If you find these conversations valuable to your life as an artist and would like to support the ongoing production of the Compass, please consider becoming a patron at Patreon.com slash The Compass Podcast. Pledges start at as little as one dollar a month, and anything you can give would be greatly appreciated. Also, if you have a moment, please review and follow in iTunes. Every little bit helps other listeners to find the podcast. I'd like to thank the following people for their generosity. The Compass Cover Art is by Kim Miller, music by Brendan Spieth, audio assistance from Monica Choxy, and a special thanks to Frankie J. Alvarez. See you next time.