This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Leah Walsh: Hi, and welcome to The Compass, the podcast documenting the struggles of life as an artist.

[0:05] Leah Walsh: I'm Leah Walsh. Hi, everyone. My guest today is Michelle Ross. She's incredible, and I will introduce her properly in just a second. But I wanted to take a moment to say thank you so much for listening. I took an unexpected break from producing the podcast, which is something I rarely do. And I think I just needed um I needed a rest. I needed a moment away. We went on a long road trip to see some family and friends, and I've just in general been mentally exhausted from the last year and a half. And I can't say that's changed, but the break was important, and I'm ready to dive back in for now. Michelle Ross is a violinist and composer who I was at Juilliard with. She is amazing. I had the pleasure of working with her on a multimedia project when we were both alumni.

And I'm obsessed with the way she thinks about music and being an artist, and I'm excited to share this conversation with you. Check out her website to see what she's up to. It's MichelleRossViolin.com. Thank you, Michelle. I hope you all enjoy the 176th episode of The Compass.

[1:26] Michelle Ross: That's how you start?

[1:27] Leah Walsh: Oh my gosh.

[1:28] Michelle Ross: Yeah, that's how I start.

[1:30] Leah Walsh: That's how I always start. I figure we just dive into the deep end and then we'll swim our way out together.

[1:38] Michelle Ross: Gosh. I don't know if it's really possible to keep from going to the dark side. So part of the journey for me has been like figuring out what like good friction is versus like recognizing the resistance and recognizing like when you're fighting against yourself and when like yeah friction friction can actually help push you. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know what I d I think that's the whole thing. It's like how do you how do you keep working um and not get swallowed by by th like when it gets overwhelming.

[2:20] Leah Walsh: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that idea of friction and like how how that's changed for you over the years, how you've started to articulate that for yourself.

[2:31] Michelle Ross: Sure. Um, a lot of things happened actually this year during the pandemic, which um I'm sure a lot of people have experienced. But one thing that it sort of brought to a head was having to like reconcile this like fragmentation that happens, I think as artists, whether it's from your training, whether it's from like pressure and maybe what you thought your career would be or what you th what kind of artist you thought you would be, and um sort of being able to embrace like what you really want to be doing and and for me that had to do with like very specific musical identities that were really kind of I was not not letting them like the different parts trust themselves. So they were like actively fighting against each other.

So this year I I kinda had the time to dig into that a little bit more and I've been trying really hard um to like build trust between the parts and allow them to kind of like intersect and yeah like that's like develop friction like I think there I've noticed there's a difference when I'm it's very obvious when you like are fighting yourself. I mean the the world fights you a lot and then if you fight yourself on top of it which we all do then you kind of just you you get you stall so um yeah for me it was understanding like that all of the different sort of interests or mediums that I want to pursue like if they don't fit into this little box of being a classical violinist that's actually really great. So like the good friction was like pushing through that box and I think the bad friction is feeling like you have to be in a box.

[4:29] Leah Walsh: So I don't know.

[4:30] Michelle Ross: Yeah.

[4:31] Leah Walsh: Do you feel like um do you feel a weight of expectations in that regard or do you think it it comes more from your your own internalized expectations?

[4:31] Michelle Ross: The more I think about it and and sort of like hit my head against the wall I realize that like most of this is in internal most of the expectation um and like the the critical voice that I'm battling against is really maybe it it might be a projection of what I think people are thinking of me but usually it's it's not true. I mean of course like we do get burned right like we do you know, but that's tends to be like a separate issue for me.

[5:16] Michelle Ross: Um it's a separate kind of dark side. The outer world.

[5:20] Leah Walsh: Um yeah. Well tell me tell me a little bit about what what life has been like dealing with the pandemic for you as like how your routine has changed, how you've been dealing with isolation. I know that being a musician can be kind of insular at times anyway, spending so much time practicing and reaching for those moments where you get to live in community or with like a larger group. But I'm curious what it's been like being in your apartment this year.

[5:53] Michelle Ross: It's so surreal and like I feel really grateful because at this very moment it almost feels difficult to remember how bad it was and I've been thinking a lot about like survival instinct and how like it's obviously a privilege if you can forget about that pain. But I think it's also like maybe that's what resilience is. I don't know. But uh so I right now I I've just recently started playing concerts again and like had my first you know sort of big normal concert maskless and got to hang out with people after and and that it just felt so normal and I wasn't afraid anymore and that is like very surreal.

[6:35] Michelle Ross: Um but you know the I spent the first three months in the pandemic completely alone in my apartment and yeah that that was really hard um and then I actually spent most of the time uh at my parents' place in the suburbs so I would say that I had a very like I couldn't really connect to my violin at all. Like I just didn't I I just didn't really want to play it. I didn't I wasn't one of I wasn't someone who was like practicing Bach every day. I I didn't I had all of these great um I had right before the pandemic I had sort of started to pivot towards like composing, like really throwing myself into composition, um, which I wanted the time to do for like the last decade. Um so I was already sort of turning in a very significant way.

[7:31] Michelle Ross: So as soon as the pandemic started, we didn't know obviously how long things were, and I I almost had that moment that we probably all did of like, oh, I have this is a gift, like I have time, I can, you know, write everything I wanted to write, and then and then it's like you can't do anything. So I I definitely worked through that for for many months. And I would say somewhere around the late summer, there was just a lot happening and I somehow like the portal started to crack open again.

[8:08] Michelle Ross: And I came back to music. I mean, at that point in the middle of the summer when like it was so easy I to lose faith that like how how is it all gonna come back? How are people uh these organizations kind of survive? How are concerts ever gonna happen? I was really but like I couldn't see beyond that. And so my way back was sort of like through improvising. So I you know, I had my like childhood piano here at my parents' house, and I I started improvising on the violin, but like making kind of the weirdest strangest music possible and all of a sudden I it was like I discovered music in a new way.

[8:50] Michelle Ross: Um not to get too specific about music, but like this piano is really out of tune. It it sounds like a microtunton organ or something. Like every note has like four strings and each one is like vibrating slightly differently. So it sounds like a very vibrant like uh chorus of like um dissonance. And it just something as small as that sort of made me think about like pitch and things being finite or not, and sort of that almost became like a metaphor for like the whole way I was viewing like my life in music as like things go a certain way, but actually in between the spaces like it's like infinite.

[9:32] Michelle Ross: So that was sort of like this awakening, and I just I just sort of found my way back and started composing and improvising and a l a lot of this um like digging into these questions of like what is my identity as a violinist or an improviser or composer, and like what are those mediums even mean? And asking those questions, I had all of a sudden the time and space, and um, so I had like that was significant, and then of course the waves come back and you know you you fall off and you you don't write and you know you get stressed out and all all the other stuff keeps it's like kind of like these tidal waves, you know.

[10:16] Michelle Ross: So um artistically I had like these moments that I'm now trying to to hold on to now that like things are coming back a little bit more. I don't want to get distracted from that sort of refound purpose, but you know, it's also a very different world and navigating that is is still really tricky.

[10:35] Leah Walsh: So yeah. Did you find yourself engaging at all with um kind of the offerings that artists were putting forth online or were you kind of needing to block that out.

[10:47] Michelle Ross: I did like one or I think I did one or two live streams very, very early on. Um I did um really enjoy going to some like concerts virtually, especially in the new music community, because um I, you know, when I was like really deep in that discovery process, there's something kind of fun about like I actually had a piece of mine premiered online. It was still very you know, like I've never heard the piece in person, but uh it like premiered at this w like uh at this music festival in January, and there was something kind of cool about seeing people on YouTube like be able to comment in real time and I also feel like people I know that I'm very comfortable like in my like, you know, you're you know that people are in a different space.

[11:40] Michelle Ross: Obviously it's different, right? But I have to say s yeah, some of that is kind of nice. I feel like especially with classical music, it can be kind of intimidating, and there was something really I think welcoming about that.

[11:52] Michelle Ross: Um, but at the same time, like I performing on a live stream is something that I like I wouldn't do unless I had to. It's it's not it's a very strange feeling and like the energy at the adrenaline is different and like you know, so I I um I I really like admire ever people who who found ways to keep motivated and connect like that. But one weird thing that I started doing, uh, which I vowed never ever to do was like I started so something I always say is that like I I don't play the piano right like I improvise but I will like never play in public.

[12:34] Michelle Ross: So one thing I started doing back in the fall was I got very into a very disciplined routine for like maybe a couple months where every morning the first thing I did was like I'd get coffee and I'd sit at the piano and improvise. And I started live streaming it on Instagram and like I would do it early in the morning and usually nobody would ever show up, which was kind of the point. Like I think my Instagram was private at the time too. I think I just did it almost to just like get over my nerves because I realized that that like what is this block about? So it was just sort of like talking, it's like a diary, you know, well come into my diary. So that was a very strange thing. And it was just like in a fleeting format and it's not like I invited people to it, it wasn't a concert or anything.

But that was something that I did for myself and was like a little bit of putting myself, trying to put myself somehow like go beyond some fear and as part of my inquiry of like did this like the deepening my practice of like improvising and stuff. So that was something that I did that very surprised me that I didn't, yeah, and those live streams, they don't stay up, do they?

[13:54] Leah Walsh: No, no, they don't stay up. Even like stories do.

[13:57] Michelle Ross: They just are just, I mean, I think you can like I've considered maybe like putting them together or doing a, at one point I had wanted to do, you know, for me it was like daily archiving like whatever I was thinking about that day I was sort of getting accountability. Yeah, and also just musically having the record, like I always record myself when I improvise, so this was just sort of a different way of engaging with the ideas. And every once in a while a friend would come on and I could ask them about rhythm or whatever. So yeah, I don't think I would have ever done that pre-pandemic. So this is only very thinly related to what you're talking about, but have you heard about this special on Netflix, the Bo Burnham Inside special?

[14:45] Michelle Ross: I've only watched half of it so far and he's some sort of, he directed this movie called Eighth Grade, which was really good, but I guess he comes from like the YouTube world. You might find it interesting. I've again, I said I've only watched half of it, but I kept having people tell me to watch it and it's like him in a room throughout the pandemic making these like satirical songs and almost like diary entries. It's very, it's very interesting, just like I, it's interesting study and form.

[14:45] Leah Walsh: Yeah, I'd love to check that out, thank you. And especially, I'm just curious in general about like what the record of this time is going to be like historically, especially since so many things are online. Like what are the diaries that are gonna be left behind? What are the everyday experiences of what this was like?

[14:45] Michelle Ross: Yeah, I think about that too. And I also think about like for everyone it's gonna be different. Like when is the point from which like we view it as like that was that period and now we're either transitioning or we're beyond it and like can we make those distinctions? And I think that's different for everyone because like as someone who has a kid who can't be vaccinated yet, I think I feel less along that continuum than some of my friends do, you know? Just that level of comfort and that's so challenging. And like the world isn't making that easy for us either. Like there's with all the confusion, I mean I've been living with family and had different considerations than if I had been in my apartment by myself at my age and my considerations.

[16:33] Michelle Ross: So also I was very acutely aware of when I started like the first gig that I played, you know, like this, I wanted to celebrate it and I want like all of us to celebrate when we are able to start working again. But I just, I try to be as aware as possible of the fact that everyone is at a different stage and some people may have never, have not played or done their art and been compensated for it yet or maybe they won't ever do that again. So I think like we have to support each other as much as possible and like talk. I've found that I just try to encourage my friends to like be vocal about that because yeah, as artists we're always sort of like we are grateful to work because we love what we do and I think we cherish that, but it's, I found it sad that like sometimes like gratitude can almost feel like a burden, like we also want to survive.

[17:34] Leah Walsh: Yeah, and that's huge for it.

[17:37] Michelle Ross: Yeah, yeah. For our whole community, the part of this time, like the financial ramifications for people have just been huge.

[17:47] Leah Walsh: Yeah.

[17:48] Michelle Ross: And you know, I feel like luckily a lot of my friends have had family to lean on or family to stay with or things like that to get them through savings, but it has been a life-changing thing. It's kind of like right around when I graduated from Juilliard was the financial crash. And it's just like another huge event like that.

[18:10] Leah Walsh: Yeah, it's insane.

[18:13] Michelle Ross: Yeah.

[18:15] Leah Walsh: Well, I'm glad you're getting a chance to get back out there. I know I'd love to talk a little bit about your Discovering Bach project that you did years ago. But I was thinking about how like location is so important to you, at least in that project, and how much it could affect you and change your experience. So I was curious how you've been dealing with the recent times. But I'd love to talk about that project and what you learned from it.

[18:43] Michelle Ross: Sure. So the Discovering Bach project sort of had like three parts to it. I made my first album, which was the Complete Sonatas and Partitas of Bach. And when I was making the album, I at one point I was thinking about how like the feeling of playing Bach by yourself is probably in my lifetime like will be like one of the most intense and like indescribable feelings I could ever have. Just that there's nothing like it, and it's such like a powerful and intimate kind of, yeah, self-contained experience. And I was, you know, I was like kind of coming to this realization about the music. I was in, you know, everything was kind of in this great flow. And I just had this image of like I'm making this like really refined, like trying to, you know, make this thing.

And yet, like, what is it? It's gonna end up like on a CD and maybe someone's gonna listen to it with their headphones, and then again, it's gonna be this sort of like very, it's like I was trying, I was just sort of reconciling what does that mean and what is the experience of like actually bringing that powerful, like raw Bach and how I feel about it up close to people.

[20:14] Michelle Ross: So I was like really, I almost had this idea of like this making an album, making a CD is like a certain medium, right? It's this like beautiful idealized version of how I felt about the music at that point in time, and at this, it's like making a sculpture. And I just had this at the same time this urge to like break the sculpture, break open the molding and let it be spontaneous and raw and different every day, which Bach kind of is. So that idea of like this continual discovery. So that's when this germ started was like while I was making the CD version of Bach. And about a year and a half or two later, I finally was able to bring to life this pop-up project where I played for 33 days in like all around New York City and every borough and like kind of every location I could possibly like get in, you know, craft it.

And you know, there were many layers that went into how I designed the project, but the basic impetus was like I wanted to have this intersection. It was more of a question. Like I actually didn't think it would work, and before the very first concert, I was like, I wouldn't let the person who built my website post the website because I was like so nervous, and I really thought if I walked into the Hungarian pastry shop and played and didn't say a word, like I just thought it would be a disaster.

[21:42] Leah Walsh: So I didn't know if the question was gonna work.

[21:45] Michelle Ross: Is that what you did or did you ask?

[21:47] Michelle Ross: Yeah, that was a very first, well, I mean I had organized it with the cafe, but like my idea was to really just have this intersection between public and private spheres and do it in a way where Bach wasn't gonna be fighting the sound of subway platform, like do it in a way where the art could be sort of presented, and just instead of asking people to listen, just sort of hopefully urging them to, or not, you know. But I wanted this like up close and very alive way to go through the cycle. So there are 33 movements and Bach's music is, you know, very, very architectural. So I like the idea of also like traveling through a city and I like I played on the ferry, Staten Island Ferry, and I was able to go to the veterans hospital and to schools and coffee shops.

I went to a lot of different places and it was a really, it was just a magical little thing, you know. I got to know the city in a different way and met strangers and got to know the music in a different way, and then I wrote about it every day, so that was also like a way, it felt like a way for me to, you know, continue looking at it in different ways. And then of course like the album came out after all of that, which was also interesting and sort of for me just ties into the idea that like art is constantly evolving.

[23:18] Michelle Ross: So the Discovering Bach for me is really just like about my philosophy about music in general. Like you know, you're always, you can always find more and add, you know, it's always changing.

[23:31] Leah Walsh: So have you been a writer in the past or when you are, are those blog entries kind of your one foray into that?

[23:31] Michelle Ross: Well, I love writing. I'm like very passionate about it and I sort of do it for myself. I think I have another blog that I don't really post on very often, but I loved writing every day in that format. So it is something that I've wanted to do again and I actually might, you know, something's been brewing over the last year because I wanted to explore a similar timeline, like being accountable for a month and also like having some sort of audience for a month. I really loved that journey. But I want to do it about improvisation and composition. So I have sort of been writing privately, but I think anyone who writes will probably say that like, you know, consistency is really important. So I'm searching for that structure, maybe.

[24:38] Leah Walsh: Yeah.

[24:39] Michelle Ross: Yeah.

[24:40] Leah Walsh: I kind of love that idea though of having that finite timeline, like you said, that one month timeline. Kind of gives you that focus and then it without the pressure of it going on forever.

[24:53] Michelle Ross: Well, the funny thing is that when I was talking about the live streaming improv daily improvisations, that sort of when that when I started doing that, it was it was sort of like a test for this possible next project that would include, you know, sort of be an all-encompassing like music blog kind of thing. But I think I got a f I was kind of too focused on like what it was gonna be that I didn't do it. I don't know if you've ever had that happen with a project. So I'm sort of letting it stew a little bit longer. So this is like a thing that I'm curious about, um in terms of when we like let go of things, should we let like how which instinct do you follow? Like how can we be curious about um like a different way of thinking about discipline, you know?

So if something naturally doesn't continue, is it because you're afraid to bring it to life? Is it because it no longer serves you, or is it because you're lazy, you know? And those terms that I have the words about like laziness or like oh I didn't practice or discipline, like they sound really scary. So I've been trying to find different words to be able to have more structure creative with like more creative practices. Um it's new for me.

[26:16] Michelle Ross: So do you mean like that hesitancy? You might just need to get past it to break through a wall, or versus maybe I need to let this go and pursue something else, like that kind of feeling?

[26:31] Leah Walsh: Yeah, I exactly. Um like how to push yourself without killing it with like criticism, yeah, yeah. Um but also be on it, like sometimes I have I want to be more honest about well, I took three weeks off of writing music because I was playing violin and now I'm behind. So be honest about that. Like maybe I could sit at my desk and write a couple write a phrase every day, even if it's not a it's not good. Just do it, you know, just be in pursuit. And I'm trying to keep like you know, I I've been thinking of like it like a portal, and sometimes it opens by itself and it's on and maybe it took 10 years and it's open, but it can close also, yeah. So it's not that you can't get back there, it's about figuring out first of all how to get back and maybe how to like keep it open a little bit, maybe stick like a twig in the wall or something, where like once it really closes and you have to kind of hit back through hit back, and that's been happening quite a bit during the pandemic. It's like the wall shuts, and then the resistance comes back with a vengeance, and it's like you know, to climb up all over again. So I love the way you think about it though. That's beautiful.

[27:54] Michelle Ross: Um how does your family feel about you choosing a career in the arts? Are there any other artists in your family?

[28:04] Leah Walsh: My mom is an artist. She's a painter and sculptor. Um, my parents have always been incredibly supportive. I'm I'm like very, very fortunate. Um they've been amazing. So yeah, I think I think they as we all get older, it must be challenging, you know, because the artist's life is, I think, always gonna be difficult. But um, you know, we have this yeah, I feel like anyone who's this year taught me that like no matter what I I just I can't not do it, you know.

[28:42] Michelle Ross: I almost wished that I could could could just leave it, leave music because gosh, wouldn't it be easier in a lot of ways? I've had that feeling sometimes, like when I see a friend make a big pivot into something else that like really feeds them. Yeah, I've been like, well, where can I find that moment? Like, is there something else that would make me feel like as fulfilled or like put me on this other more stable path where I would feel that uh fulfillment and it just like that moment hasn't happened, you know, and so there's still that that worm of like, well, that's still the path for me until I can figure something else out. Um it is a weird feeling to be like kind of kind of wishing you could do something else, but it's just it's just the it's such a double edged sword because it's something that we all love to do so much, but like the systems, the capitalist system is just not made to support artists and the at least like with the acting industry and I'm sure with the music industry too, it's like you see that it's possible to have financial.

We we know so many people who have um reached some great financial goals through their art, but it's also equally I have so many extremely talented, extremely well trained friends who are not reaching that.

[30:11] Leah Walsh: Even um even myself, I'm working a day job right now. So it's it's maddening. Those systems are truly maddening.

[30:21] Michelle Ross: That was very well said. Um yeah, I I I I of course that resonates a lot, and I feel like um I've had self spent a lot of time thinking about that this year, especially, you know, feeling disappointed as well for like the very I don't know when the first article that came out in, you know, it was a long time before there was a significant like artists are struggling, you know. Where was all of that? And I felt like there was this missed opportunity to re like our world lost, like we I got really emotional. If you think about like we've lost culture, like we lost that and we didn't protect our artists, and we we haven't helped them try to flourish after. And what kind of world is it if we don't like revere artists? It's it's very, very sad.

[31:19] Leah Walsh: I guess there's definitely a sense of like, well, you're a struggling artist in the best of times. Like that's just part of what you've signed up for. And so if you're still struggling in the worst of times, what you know, you can handle it.

[31:37] Michelle Ross: I think like gosh. You know, I think we can we can be like pure and like passionate like regardless of external accolades or you know financial success like we can have that passion but we don't have to have the identity of you know it's such a dangerous like trope to think that artists have to struggle in order to I mean I think we would we will struggle if we have to I mean it's proven but at some point like a lot of people won't be able to continue and even beyond that before the pandemic I mean I think that there's a lot of room for rethinking how we like what a successful artist is and who a successful artist is and how are those things defined and how are they how are the opportunities and the training informed by what those definitions are and are are they always evolving, you know.

[32:52] Leah Walsh: Well in as far as the larger culture goes, like I thought it you know, when everyone was in like very strict lockdown, the arts were what they were all leaning on to get through. People were binge watching TV, movies, music, podcasts, you know, puzzles of paintings, you know, like artwork was what they were leaning on, and yet there's no significant support for the arts in this country.

[33:21] Michelle Ross: Yeah. Anyway, yeah, it's it's it's I don't know the answer, uh me either, but I do admire like just seeing people persevere. Like I know that really helped me, even when I wasn't able to connect to my work and have faith, I would see somebody else working, you know, or if they were doing a live stream, maybe I'd you know, just the fact that they were doing it and and can keep keep going was so inspiring.

[33:53] Leah Walsh: Are there any lessons that you've learned in the last like three years that you're really proud of that you wouldn't mind sharing?

[34:02] Michelle Ross: Someone, uh composer that I met a couple years ago said said two things to me that um have really stuck with me quite a bit. His name is Wolfgang Reim, and I was asking him for advice for like a young composer, and he said to follow your obsessions, and I I really loved that. Um he also said to be wary of asking questions, which I thought was really amazing, and I I I think about that all the time, trying to understand what that means, because I love to all I do is ask questions. Um, but I think what he was talking about was he he he was he said that like if for something very specific, if it's technical and you can't figure it out, then sometimes you really do need to ask.

[34:52] Leah Walsh: But what I took from it was that you have to listen and you have to do enough work internally before you really know what the question is.

[35:05] Michelle Ross: So I find that a lot of times if I'm feeling nervous or um like if I'm doubting myself, I mean if it's something simple like how do I look today, or like, was that okay what I just said? You know, when we ask constantly outward, it's almost like noise. And in order to like really be it's like I feel like when if your question can really like come to a point where it has to be asked, then you've done it was implied is like you've you've done the listening and you've looked like kind of deeply and said, no, this really is what I'm after, and then continually continually refining it. So that I I've been thinking about quite a bit.

[35:49] Leah Walsh: Um just so I think like if I could have been proud of anything over the last few years, it would have been the moments when I was able to listen to like what is my question, you know, what is my like musical purpose, and um can I have the courage to like embrace that even if it's not what I thought it would look like, or um it I don't know.

[36:20] Michelle Ross: No, I love that.

[36:22] Leah Walsh: Do you use do you use the word intuition much in your own life? Is that something that you value?

[36:28] Michelle Ross: I've been kind of really curious about that word lately. I feel like I haven't put enough uh weight on my own intuition, and it's something I'd like to start prioritizing.

[36:44] Leah Walsh: I think that's a wonderful um shift.

[36:48] Michelle Ross: Like if I think our intuition is very wise. Um I have one thing that I sometimes get confused about is like what my gut is. I feel like when people talk about listening to your gut, it has more to do with like daily life or life decisions, and that sometimes can feel very difficult for me to tap into.

[37:10] Leah Walsh: But what I've learned through improvising, um, which is like you know, the medium that I love to meet, you know, just if we're talking about really in the nitty-gritty, like in just my own process, if I if the intuition in like intuitive intelligence is a lot more complex than maybe we think it is, like I'm a very analytical person, so I think that part again fights the intuitive part because I want to think about things, and so somewhat in like well, sometimes I think we're trained, like if you if something's without thought, then you know it's less profound, but I think intuition does not mean the absence of thought, not having a plan doesn't does not mean it's thoughtless, it just means that like sometimes our intuition like is able to access, especially as artists, more parts and more like nuanced, mysterious, like smarter part, whatever word you want to use, like I find that I can't comprehend as quickly as my intuition can lead me.

[38:29] Michelle Ross: So it's actually just more of like translating between that. Like if I play a phrase, I know I was never trained in the piano, but I can compose on the piano and it's purely intuitive, intuitively guided. So the part in me that is a good violinist and practiced all those hours, all those years is like, how is this possible? You know, and because of that, I'm almost afraid to gain technique because I'm afraid that I'm gonna somehow kill the intuition. But I don't think that; I think that it's all parts of it. Like I think that you can really gain trust between your intuition and whichever the analytical or however you want to describe that. But it can be, you kind of have to let go, and that can be really scary sometimes.

[39:18] Leah Walsh: Did your passion for improvisation come within your training, or was that something you pursued on your own? Because in my mind outside of it, I'm like, oh, they teach improvisation in jazz, but not so much in classical music.

[39:32] Michelle Ross: Yeah, I started improvising in secret. Most classical musicians, which I'm really trying to be curious about and hopefully change or talk to more people, or you know, teach about it. I don't know if I can be at that point yet, but I'm a self-taught improviser. I won't even say it's taught; it's just something that I happened upon by accident, and that's part of this sort of fragmentation that happened. So I was in school, you know, we were in school, and I had like a really bad breakup, and I went to a festival for a summer, and I was like crying all summer, and it was raining all summer, and the only thing that calmed me down was playing the piano. I hadn't played the piano since I was six, and I just started improvising completely by accident, and it really was, I thought about it a lot.

Like I think it was in a sense like a survival instinct. So I started recording myself, and it was this portal connecting me to all of these ideas that I had sort of put aside as a composer, and I was able to access, I was sort of like able to circumvent my writer's block through improvising and through an instrument that wasn't my own. So it was a suspended realm where I wasn't judging or I had no expectations either. But then when I took me a while to start to improvise on the violin because I almost in the beginning felt like maybe I wasn't allowed to do this, you know. So it was really scary for me to do that in public. So I sort of only improvised in non-traditional ways, you know. So that's why it wasn't, you know, we rewrote our multimedia piece, and being able to collaborate with different art forms felt like a freer space.

But I remember this one recital I played at Juilliard, and I performed one of my first pieces for improv, like violin and electronics that I was improvising, and I had to program it for nobody told me to do this, but I had so much fear from that traditional mold that I put it, I remember I put it in the intermission, like I literally programmed it during intermission because I was so afraid to see this piece next to Beethoven and everything else. And you know, I've spent a lot of time trying to untether myself from all of that, and I think a lot of musicians have, and I hope that more classical musicians embrace the thing is that it's a modern phenomenon that classical musicians are not taught to improvise.

It's not actually historically accurate. It's not that classical music is only notated and other genres like Bach was an improviser; everyone was an improviser. I don't know when it happened. It's one of the things I'm really curious about and sort of researching. I just know it within my own self, even though it's something that I came to on my own, it's like the most natural and honest thing I can do on this planet. I still have a lot of blocks. So I think maybe any artist has that, that like you have a love of your tradition, and only with my tradition technique can I venture out into the multiverse in this way, but at the same time, you're sort of asking questions about why your training was the way it was and what was missing.

So it's sort of an exciting time to be exploring all of that. And I'm trying to learn as much from other musicians and other genres because I just think that there's a lot of things missing in terms of just if you only, yeah, there's a lot more to music than putting it in boxes for me personally, and that's how new forms come into being because we step out of those boxes. I think it's easy to only see history, to not see your own time as like the time when something new is being created. You're like, no, I just study the things that are already here, when in actuality, like our generation is making new things that will be looked back on by the next generations as art history.

[44:06] Leah Walsh: Yeah. So what can we contribute to that? Well, we've been talking for a while. I'm just gonna ask you two quick questions that I always ask at the end. When you do feel like you're having a day where you're really down and uninspired, are there any like really tangible things that you find yourself reaching for again and again, like books that you reread or places you go or things like that, kind of shake yourself out of it?

[44:36] Michelle Ross: Something I started doing this year, which I didn't do before, is walking. And that's, I always feel better when I'm moving, so I've noticed. So if I'm having a really hard time, if I just go for a walk, also I'm in the suburbs, so I can drive. I drive to this beautiful hiking spot, and I also find that driving somehow clears my head too. But that I find is helpful if I can remember to do it, you know. Just, but I do think that like motion really triggers ideas and perspective because it's literally, you know, you're moving, so you're changing your point of view. I have found in the past that meditation has been really transformative. I would love to be more consistent with it. That has helped.

Like, you know, if I can remember to journal, that tends to help as well. Like the morning pages idea. And I think the hardest thing to do, which you know, if I could tell a friend what to do, I would just tell them to be kind. Like if you can be kind with yourself, I don't know why it's so hard for us. Frankie and I were just talking about this last night; it's perplexing. You know, what would you say to your friend? You would say be kind to yourself, you know? Yeah, yeah, that's a hard one.

[46:23] Leah Walsh: Is there any work of art that you've taken in lately that you want to recommend of any art form?

[46:30] Michelle Ross: Oh, my friend Suleika wrote a memoir, Suleika Joad. It's called Between Two Kingdoms, and it's unbelievable, so I highly recommend it. It's like one of the most beautiful things I've ever read. It's a really personal journey that she shares going through leukemia and then going on her recovery and then on a road trip and sort of her healing process, and it's just incredible. So yeah, I will request it from the day.

[47:16] Leah Walsh: Yes.

[47:17] Michelle Ross: Oh, if you haven't read it, yeah, it's amazing. And it's so incredible, like to read. I've never had that privilege of reading a book that someone like a close friend has written. I hadn't experienced that art form yet. So it's amazing because all of a sudden the whole world gets to also know this person that you know, and you get to know them in a different way as well. It's phenomenal.

[47:48] Leah Walsh: It's a, yeah. So I highly recommend her book.

[47:51] Michelle Ross: Yeah. And also, in terms of the pandemic, during the pandemic, she started a journaling collective called The Isolation Journals, which if anybody likes journaling, she has it. I think it went on for a hundred days straight, and then extra, you know, it's still going on maybe, I don't know the consistency at this point, but it's pretty cool.

[48:16] Leah Walsh: Yeah. That's wonderful. Thank you. I'm excited to check it out. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for doing this. Really, really made my day.

[48:24] Michelle Ross: Thank you. This is such an honor to talk to you, and so good to see you again.

[48:40] Leah Walsh: Thank you for listening to the Compass Podcast. If you find these conversations valuable to your life as an artist and would like to support the ongoing production of the Compass, please consider becoming a patron at Patreon.com slash The Compass Podcast. Pledges start at as little as one dollar a month, and anything you can give would be greatly appreciated. Also, if you have a moment, please review and follow in iTunes. Every little bit helps other listeners to find the podcast. I'd like to thank the following people for their generosity. The Compass Cover Art is by Kim Miller, music by Brendan Spieth, audio assistance from Monica Choxy, and a special thanks to Frankie J. Alvarez. See you next time.