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[0:10] Rob Russo: Welcome to DANCIN’ Man, a Fabulous Invalid podcast featuring exclusive behind-the-scenes interviews with the cast and creative team of Bob Fosse's DANCIN’ on Broadway.

[0:18] Jamie DuMont: I'm Jamie DuMont.

[0:19] Rob Russo: I'm Rob Russo.

[0:20] Jamie DuMont: And we're your hosts.

[0:22] Rob Russo: We're also excited to be co-producers of DANCIN’ on Broadway and thrilled to be back in the Rosevale Cocktail Room at Civilian for another wonderful conversation.

[0:30] Jamie DuMont: Yes, and this week we are speaking with David Dabbon, who did the dance arrangements for the show and has also written some new music for the show.

[0:37] Rob Russo: Of course, in a dance show, the music is really crucial, and it's a very important part of the experience.

[0:42] Jamie DuMont: So we wanted to talk to someone who was hands-on in creating it.

[0:45] Rob Russo: It's such an interesting job that I think a lot of people don't really understand what it is or how they do it, and we're gonna find out.

[0:53] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, yeah. And especially in the world of Fosse, right?

[0:56] Rob Russo: Where the music is not an afterthought, right? The music is an essential component of the whole experience.

[1:02] Jamie DuMont: There's even like a Fosse sound.

[1:03] Rob Russo: I can't quite articulate it, but it exists.

[1:06] Jamie DuMont: Well, when you think of the Fosse sound, I immediately go to Ralph Burns.

[1:10] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[1:10] Jamie DuMont: You can't not, I think.

[1:12] Rob Russo: Yeah, who was his longtime orchestrator, and the two clearly had a real sympathy in terms of the style and the instrumentation and all of that.

[1:21] Jamie DuMont: And that is reflected in this new version on stage.

[1:24] Rob Russo: And it's so much more than that, which is what we're gonna find out from David.

[1:27] Jamie DuMont: So I'm very excited to talk to him.

[1:28] Rob Russo: Great, let's get to it.

[1:29] Jamie DuMont: Let's welcome to the show, David.

[1:42] David Dabbon: Thank you so much for having me.

[1:44] Jamie DuMont: Oh, we're so thrilled to have you, and we're really excited to dive into the music of DANCIN’. You've of course written some new music for this production, which we will get to in a minute, but before we get there, you're also the dance arranger for the show. So I'm wondering if you could explain for our listeners right off the top, what is it that a dance arranger does?

[2:01] David Dabbon: It is one of the hardest questions to describe, I think, for me, because as somebody who grew up listening to so much musical theater, you never really understand how it gets created. I started off as a dancer. I would listen to these musicals, specifically Crazy for You is the one that comes to mind. You'd hear these big dance breaks. And I was so enamored by them. And I had never understood that that create somebody would be the person to actually create the dance music for these musical numbers. You have the composer, you have the choreographer, you have the director, you have the cast, you have the orchestra, the orchestrator, and then you have a dance arranger. And so what the dance arranger does is take the work of the composer and then figures out how to take this two-minute song and make it a seven-minute dance number.

And it could be three minutes, it could be whatever number. But the example that I think is easiest to say is something like happy birthday, which we all know the song too. If we were putting it in a cartoon, for example, in a hotel, and you sing a whole song and they're singing it to a little kid, and then all of a sudden, you know, you see some guests slide down the banister. What's the music that goes down that? And so that's my job is to figure out how to get the music and the story and still keeping it in the same world, but working with the choreographer and the director and all the other elements that you can play with to musically enhance the work that's getting on stage.

[3:28] David Dabbon: I've had the same revelation regarding overtures. I always said, oh, well, of course, the composer writes the overture, but not true, right? Or not always true. Some do, right? Some historically have, right? Does a dance arranger for a show like this, where there's no one composer, right? There's a bunch of different songs that were put together. How do you sort of negotiate that, not having like a living person to be working with? But here it's more like a team of people who are putting together in a way a new score, but you know, one that is using existing material from different composers.

[4:01] David Dabbon: What Fosse's work has done so beautifully is really not just to what his work does, but also celebrate sort of what the music and musicality of that piece does. You know, there's each sort of vignette has its own world of choreography. And when you're looking at how music inspires dance or dance inspires music, you're really figuring out what feels right for that moment. Wayne Salento, our director, would always say, it's tricky about Fosse's work is his musicality is exceptional. So how music fits to his choreography, you're sort of stuck with those rhythms. You're stuck with the musical phrasing. When you're looking at any composer's work to dance arrange, you're also looking at their musicality.

What is the where are things sort of undulating and where are things dipping, where are things hitting or popping, where are the pauses? I think understanding both the emotional layer, the musical layer is a really big part of keeping the integrity of the composer's work. And I think being of understanding those tools that we are given as artists, that's sort of how was sort of my approach, as well as Jim Abbott, who's our music supervisor, orchestrator, and also a ranger on the show. I think how we approach the work is both what feels right for that moment to be genuine and also support the musicality of Fosse's work. So it's all there in the music that you've been given. So not having a living person to talk to isn't necessarily essential because it's in the music.

[5:43] David Dabbon: Right. And unfortunately, I didn't get to see the show, you know, and there's certain the original show me. But there's certain things that we've incorporated in Bob Fosse's dance and in this revival that we have resources of video and other elements that we've gotten to do. For example, there's a sequence from My Sister Eileen, and that music was written by the amazing Jule Styne. And so in our sequence, it didn't quite work to use that music. And we wanted to come up with something that felt a little more contemporary and supported what their action of their storytelling was. So taking understanding what that music was for that film, and then getting to create something totally different, but celebrating what the work had been done before, so that we're celebrating all those things that have been created before that.

[6:35] Rob Russo: Sounds a bit like a puzzle.

[6:37] David Dabbon: Sounds a little bit like taking puzzle pieces and putting them together and like puzzles, puzzle pieces from different puzzles and figuring out how they fit and then finding those fits and making it work from there.

[6:49] David Dabbon: Absolutely. I think part of that is you want to come up with something new, right? And so you're trying to create a new world of different things. And when you're putting together a puzzle, you're also drawing the picture of the puzzle at the same time. So you're drawing and breaking it at the same time, and you're doing this fractal-like thing that the more you look into something, the more that you spot, and the more that you sort of see the patterns of it.

[7:18] Jamie DuMont: Well, there seems to be a recurring theme in a lot of the interviews I've read with different creatives in this project about the desire to channel what Bob would have done and what he did do, right? Which is to, you know, he kind of never took a piece of music and just set choreography to it. Famously, if you've seen the sequence, you know, the take off with us in All That Jazz, right? He would take the tune and then he'd play with it, he'd warp it, he'd add rhythm sections, he'd add some pauses, whatever. And it seems like that's what you guys are doing, or what you've done in certain portions of the show where you've done the reverse, you have the choreography, now you need to fit the music to it, which is sort of how he worked. So I'm wondering if that is part of what keeps it vital and fresh for today.

[8:05] David Dabbon: I think it absolutely is a key element of this is what will make this fresh. I think as you just said, is like asking that question. And it's through being genuine through the moments that you spot, the things that stick out, the things that you want to enhance. And I think those are elements in terms of taste and approach that then help highlight the things that you want people to see. I think audiences are always in tune when something feels authentic and genuine and are clearly aware when there's manipulation. And music has this gift of being able to make people feel things, even if something's not happening. And always, you know, as you keep hearing throughout life, going back to the simplest version is always the right thing. But you don't find those simple versions until you've explored things because then you end up still finding those unique textures or things that are surprising. And then it just sort of oozes out that way.

[9:07] Jamie DuMont: Well, you mentioned something at the top that I want to circle back to in passing, which is that you have a background in dance. And I'm wondering if you could just share a little bit about what that background is and how that has been so I imagine instrumental in your work as a dance arranger.

[9:21] David Dabbon: Great word using instrumental. Yeah, so I grew up just outside of Boston, and for whatever reason, I just wanted to dance. I was putting on shows in my basement, and I would go to theater camps and I would always take the dance classes. And I actually didn't take dance officially until seventh grade. And then I went to a summer camp, well-known theater camp called Frenchwoods. And I remember there was a dance instructor there who saw me dance, and he would always take the most, you know, the best dancers that he could find for this intense jazz level. And I had never really taken dance, and he put me in the class, and it was so over my head, but it was the best training. I learned what the discipline of dance was.

I learned that there's technique. I learned about being in my body, how to perform, what music and movement do together. And these were things that I sort of had instincts for, but I didn't really understand until somebody was like, these are the things to look out for. And so then as I got older, my mom's like, okay, you want to take dance seriously. So I started taking with the Boston Ballet, and I was training three days a week, two days a week with people that were my age in high school and then two days a week with nine 10-year-olds because they wanted to put me in an accelerated program where I would learn the technique because I didn't have any. I was a very fast learner, but I just didn't have the years of training that other people had.

So it was sort of bizarre this high school kid being with these nine 10-year-olds taking ballet and I remember like driving my car and you know and all these kids were getting dropped off by their parents and it was just I felt so both awkward and also like I'm so blessed to have this training. And I did that for a while and then I went off to college and while I was in college I so I was a self-taught pianist at the same time and I was composing a lot and I was very curious about orchestration and arranging. And so I signed up for an orchestration class my freshman year and my theory was quite good because how I taught myself to play piano was I would get Broadway fake books. And a Broadway fake book is just the melody with chords.

So there's no piano accompaniment. So that's how I taught myself I would hear these songs that I knew but I didn't know what the piano part was so I sort of figured all of that out. So my theory was quite good. So I signed up for this orchestration class and our first assignment was to take a Haydn eight measures of a piano piece that Haydn had composed and orchestrate it four different ways for a string quartet. And our teacher, you know, we did it, we sent it to our teacher, and he made Xerox copies of everything and passed it out, and it comes to my turn, and he says, Class, this is what not to do for orchestration. And it was a great lesson. He said, This is he did he did compliment my work.

He said, This is great work, but this is an arranger's work. This is not an orchestration work. What I had done was I had taken Haydn's melody and I had played with the texture. I had played with the accompaniment. I had made one, you know, very fast, one slow. I had, I just I played. It's what music is. I wanted to play with it. And I didn't do an orchestration.

[12:58] David Dabbon: And when orchestration was taking the part that was there and putting it onto the instruments, still keeping the arrangement that the composer had done, not changing it to, you know, the maybe not so great version, be like, oh, a tango, a waltz, a foxtrot version. That was a great lesson for me of like, okay, this is what an arranger does. And slowly through other things like that, I just gravitated to arranging. It sort of clicked. My mom had always said as a kid, David, I know that you want to perform, you want to actually choreograph and direct. And she said, I know that those are things that you want to do. I think you should go into music. Um, and I fought it, fought it, and all of a sudden it was this moment of like everything sort of clicked.

And it's interesting just thinking about the work that I'm doing now. I was set up for all these things, the music, the arranging, you know, all these sort of layers. And I think as coming from dance in that world of how things feel when you kick or turn or cross the stage or jump, or you know, the concept of building, the sense of when to even break out into dance after you've sung. Those are things that I sort of just felt emotionally first that I think have helped me as create the way that I like to create. And especially with Fosse, where the moves are so specific and so keyed to the music, you know, because that's how he worked. And you've already talked about that. I imagine being able to not only understand in your body and emotionally, but also have the language to describe what's going on. I imagine that's very helpful in the process.

[14:35] David Dabbon: I think understanding the language is very key because people also refer to things very differently. Even referring to music, sometimes people say, oh, I don't want the music to be high, but what they really mean is I don't want it to be loud or that should be faster. But what they really mean is just take out the pauses. They don't mean changing the tempo. And with dance, you're having a lot of terms that are very straightforward. And same with music. You understand that terminology. And it's that cross-pollination of the dance world and the music world, that sometimes those words mean very different things, or the way somebody feels something might be very different. So a lot of it is the communication and understanding what is trying to be communicated, not even just the literal sense.

And when you're trying to bring out the music of somebody doing a kick or a leap, you know, those are those terms of, you know, when this person's doing a pirouette or a battement, you know, you're watching these things and you're like, okay, I know how to reference that. So that in that aspect, being able to reference choreography makes it really easy. What is the hardest part is the communication of, hey, this isn't working because it's too busy. And you're like, what does busy mean? Is it tempo? Is it that the notes are too low? Um, so it's always about the translation of what things and what people are responding to.

[16:06] David Dabbon: Well let's take DANCIN' in particular because DANCIN' was done in San Diego. They did a six-week run, I think it was, and then a little bit of time and then came into New York, right? And obviously it's in previews now and running. How much of your arrangements have changed from San Diego to New York and then once you're in New York from rehearsals to what we're seeing on stage at the Music Box Theater? From San Diego to here, there were a lot of first small changes, right? There's a lot of like, hey, I want to take these ideas I have and make them better. And then there's other things where like, hey, we tried this out in San Diego, these bigger sequences we had this concept for a sequence in America where we had tried things in San Diego where we were playing it was our playground to try and create new ideas and take those risks.

And some of them worked, some of them didn't and when we reevaluated how what we wanted to change, that process really took a step of what are the things that don't feel right? What are the things that we want people to feel? And so there are times where it comes with group brainstorming where you're saying hey I've got this idea and somebody says oh my gosh, let me add this or you know, for example, there's a sequence where you're hearing a lot of baseball terminology being referenced, and it's this amazing sequence that Peter's dancing to. And that came from a conversation of what feels American. We were talking about, you know, football, American football, and then somebody else said, what about baseball?

And you know, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, what else if we take these terms and figure out how to do it? And it's so thrilling. You're watching him turn and you're hearing, you know, the crowd in the stadium cheer, and it feels so American, and it's also such a bizarre idea. But the irony of these baseball terms with this choreography, it clicks, and I think that's what you're always looking for in these instances of creating is when does it click?

[18:15] David Dabbon: With this project specifically, what's fascinating is there's the world of Bob Fosse, there's the choreography of Bob Fosse, which is when you say Bob Fosse, most people probably think of it's the moves, right? But then there's also these other layers, one of which is the music and the sort of sonic world of Bob Fosse was a very consistent thematic world that existed, probably in part because Ralph Burns, his longtime orchestrator, did everything with him post-1962 with Little Me. And I imagine that really informed that collaboration informed a lot of what things sounded like. As you stepped into this project, what was your sense? How would you describe the sound of Fosse as distinct from the style of movement?

[18:58] David Dabbon: That's a really interesting question because I think part of both what we were challenging and also wanting to do is what is it that defines that musicality? What is it that defines that musical world? Is it the coolness? Is it the space? Is it repetition? And I think there are things where you're, hey, this is something that they did in, let's say, in Chicago or in Pippin, that you're like, oh, these are the worlds that they had created for those specific shows that became the identity of maybe the Fosse musical sound as well as the sound of those writers. And then what might be the complete contrast to that, so that you can find where that musicality is. There are things that we've done that strangely feel very if Fosse were alive today to create.

But we do know when things click. And I think the pattern that I maybe might have found is the importance of rhythm, which of course is this one of the centers of dance, and especially Fosse's work. You watch his work and you're seeing these incredible rhythms. There's a line that Eo says early in the show about dancers are instruments, and that is so true in the show is how Fosse uses the body and the rhythms of not percussive rhythm rhythms, even though we do have a percussion section, but the rhythms of how the movement is laid out. And you know, when there's the alley dance, the one from My Sister Eileen, that we put to some a mix of some new things along with On Broadway, which for a little Easter egg for those Fosse fans is in All That Jazz.

And you're seeing these people on the streets of New York dancing to that, and you know, little things like when they catch the hat, or there's this step that they do where it's like, every time I watch it, I bop my head up and down, and the music just rocks out for two bars. It goes into like a big funk, and it matches the choreography, the groove and the jive, also the pop of all those things is I think what makes that Fosse world the Fosse world.

[21:28] David Dabbon: You mentioned Easter eggs, and there's a giant basket of Easter eggs on stage at the Music Box Theater every night called Big City Mime, which you wrote the music for or contributed quite a bit to it. So I'm curious because for those of you that haven't seen the show, and I don't want to give too much away, it is a giant number that is referencing what you're talking about, filled with Easter eggs, filled with moments that are iconically Fosse that have all been slightly redone and slightly reinterpreted, and they give you what you know, and then they give you something different. And musically, you had a lot to do with that. So I'm curious, how did that what was that process like, and how did you get from nowhere, because it didn't exist, to where it is now, which is just one of the most thrilling moments in the show?

[22:20] David Dabbon: Well, thank you so much. I'm very proud of it too, and it still feels crazy to say that I've gotten to create and be part of this, and it just it still blows my mind. So just a little backstory about the sequence Big City Mime, which was a sequence that was out of town in the original DANCIN'. I don't quote me on this, but I believe it was only in for one performance. And when Wayne, our director, wanted to create this on our first meeting, he really said, this is important to me. I want to make sure that we do this sequence. Bob loved the ballet form. And so Wayne was like, let's do the ballet. Let's do it. I know that there's a lot of iconic Fosse work that people will want to see and that we'll want to share.

And how do we do it through a new lens? And telling the story that Bob had created for Big City Mime. When I got the script, it had all these sequences and all these truly incredible iconic moments that they would reference from Sweet Charity to Pippin to Cabaret, Ring Them Bells with Liza from Liza with a Z. And so figuring out how to weave all these things together was the biggest question because you've got all these different worlds, these different shows, these different narratives, figuring out what that lens was. And when Wayne started talking to me, he said, I want this to feel cinematic, I want it to feel epic, I want it to, and so I just kept holding on to these words. And when it came time to start to put it together, I was like, we need something to weave this.

And so I came up with this theme that you hear throughout, and it's quite an intense melody. It's minor, it's percussive, the whole orchestra is playing these rhythms, it's bitey, it's edgy, it's got these stabs in it. The moment you hear it, you're like, something intense is going to happen. Even though the whole adventure of this character, Cyril going through New York City, it's him exploring many aspects of the city, his sexuality, his intrigue with people, his ability to connect with other individuals around the city. And I think that that's what I wanted to capture musically with that theme was like the sense of intensity that you this build up until so that anytime we went into a new world, we could just release.

So figuring out that melody was quite important. And so I wrote something, and I was like, okay, this is just gonna be my first draft, and Wayne loved it. And then the other parts were, you know, getting these very famous sections that you know love and think of when they hear Fosse's work, the frug and Sweet Charity, for example. The riff is very famous. And so I was like, what do we do to bring that out, but we make it a little different, a little darker, a little oozier. So there are a lot of things in that sequence musically that we've done is when things go typically go down, we went up, or when things would take bigger steps, we'd make them smaller. All those sort of things were both, as you mentioned, the Easter eggs. So for another little Easter egg is there's a sequence where he's going into a bookstore and meets this woman that he has this romantic flirtatious encounter with.

[26:04] David Dabbon: Um, but the music going into it is this is the sequence in All That Jazz, the Vivaldi, um, all that the that string uh music. And the idea on that was, you know, you would almost hear that through the speakers walking in through a bookstore. Um, and nobody might really know that unless you are a, you know, a huge fan of Fosse's work. And so those are little things that were my little winks to uh to people that that will also geek out over that thing. Things like that. And what I'm geeking out over is that in that moment, the choreography that Delise is doing is Frustrata from Pippin or or reminiscent of Fristrata, some moves that she makes. So it's layer on top of layer on top of layer. It's just seamless how it's all come together. I I I that was the goal, so I'm so glad that you had that experience too.

[27:01] Jamie DuMont: Well, and I love that you got the theme in one. I mean, you just you just it just came out. Sometimes that happens. You know, it's the first, yeah, the first impulse is the right one, right? And but it took a lot of marinating, you know. I I think it's also taken a lot of years of watching this material. It was sort of my research before diving in. And, you know, Wayne was sharing all these words that felt uh uh important to me to include. And I think understanding that, and obviously that once I had written that I it shaped a lot more, but figuring out what that emotional thing is, once that is, usually things are pretty set.

[27:39] David Dabbon: I think it's interesting what you just said is that it had been marinating, right? Because I I didn't mean to imply or make it sound like it just popped out of you because that clearly that's not what's happening. You've you've explained beautifully how hard your process is and and how lengthy it is, but it is also something that is living within you, right? Just musically, you're you've been a musical person your entire life long, right? So this music lives within you. So when you have something to inspire you, then it then it does make that process not easier, but more fluid, I would think.

[28:11] David Dabbon: Uh there's that famous quote, uh um, I don't remember the whole quote, but there was a Martha Graham quote about keeping your channel open. And I think it's exactly that. It's like when you when you've been sort of feeding and marinating and watching, you know, keeping it open so that things can just pour out and you're not editing, especially when you're trying to create, the the hardest thing to do is edit while you're creating. And that was really important to me is I is not to do that on this process. Because I think that that's what I love about his work is that it's so playful, it's so sensual, it's difficult yet it's simple. And it's it's not overly edited, yet it's incredibly edited.

And I think it comes from a place of what feels right first and then editing, so that you're getting something that feels natural and has a natural flow to it, and then figuring out how to smooth things that might not have, you know, it's like making um muffins, you know. You you want to try to make the kitchen clean while you're doing it, but some flour might spill out or whatnot. But you know, you're doing it and you're not gonna clean up as you go, otherwise you're not gonna get these delicious muffins, you're not gonna feel the love in it. You need a little mess, right?

[29:25] Jamie DuMont: Yes, yeah, as you go along.

[29:27] David Dabbon: You just mentioned a keyword which is sensual. And as as Jamie knows, one of my favorite moments in the entire show is Joint Endeavors uh in act two, uh, which is another piece where you've written some new music. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about that, because as you were talking earlier, the thing that popped into my head was that moment feels so cinematic musically. And I'm wondering if that was part of your your process going into creating it.

[29:51] David Dabbon: Jim Abbott had this great idea of using Let It Ride uh sort of as our base for those uh themes. As you listen to it, you'll hear that the melody of that is sort of sprinkled throughout, even though the tone is so different on these the the worlds of um the two women dancing and two men and then the man and the woman, like you're noticing these these different worlds musically and the the choreography is pulled from All That Jazz. When we when we started to put it together, the concept was what is the texture that's going to keep the chemistry, because when you're talking about Joint Endeavors, you're talking about sexual relationships and sensuality and chemistry. So what is going to bring out our our lens and also the audience to see it through that way?

So for the first sequence, it feels very classical. It's all acoustic. Then we contrast it to uh a digital world. Um, and Jim and I put that together where it it feels electric and um uh not of the acoustic. So you've got acoustic, you've got digital, and then you've got the third sequence that is a hybrid of both. So you've got this acoustic quality along with these like digital percussive vocal sounds, and then this vocal on top of Let It Ride, which is a completely different version than the original. And it's so sensual and and Carly, who's singing it is incredible, and I i it's uh it's just nice to have different textures. And they're all strangely from the same sequence in in the film, but we, because we put a spotlight on it, you're looking at it incredibly differently than you would if they were happening at the same time, or if they had different pieces. You if you were to even switch the music on all of them, strangely, could almost work, but it clicks with each one that it has.

[32:00] Jamie DuMont: Well, we've been fairly upfront about our favorite moments in the show. So I I have to ask, do you have a favorite moment in the show?

[32:08] David Dabbon: I love uh Big Noise. Uh it's a trio that happens in the first act. Um it's with in it's with Nando, Maddie, and Tony. Uh, and it's it is the moment it starts, it's it's it's got this bass line boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and it's sort of comedic. And then you hear a whistle, bum, bum, ba-da-da-da. And and you're seeing them sort of like bouncing and bopping about, and you know, they're flapping their hands, and there's a little layer of improv in it, and it feels like you're watching a cartoon reel. I don't know how that's possible, but you I feel like I'm watching a cartoon. And the moment I'm doing it, I'm also wanting to do the choreography. And and I I it's one of I've worked on a lot of amazing shows, and I I I actually never get sick of the shows that I'm usually watching.

Um, and this one in particular, I I can't stop watching any of these numbers in the show. Like all of them are so fantastic. But that is one that I'm like, if I were still dancing today, that's one that I would want to do. Because I love the personalities. I love the I love things with chemistry. That's something that I think the entire show does, is you're getting to watch these people interact with each other. Something like Sing Sing Sing, which is uh an outstanding number, the structure of it. And when you're also dealing with one of the greatest pieces of music of all time, then you're having these this cast dancing, jumping so high, you know, and there are these different sections of the trombone solo and trumpet solo, piano solo, clarinet solo, and it's also very sensual, but they're in these beautiful, beautiful sort of rose-ish colored tones and the chemistry between the cast, and they're doing these movements, and they're in they sort of bond together into these circular clumps, and then they spread out, and some movements are very slow and then very fast, and these poses and jumps, and it's just like every sequence is uh an extra burst.

It's like having um a pomegranate. It's like you're getting the the texture, the beautiful color, and then you you put it in your mouth and you get these like bursts of juice and texture, and uh so I think something I love about the show and those sequences. I can keep going. I'm thinking of all the other sequences now that I love in the show because they're literally I don't think there's one sequence I don't like. But I think the the ones that I that first come to mind are the ones that really show the chemistry between the people dancing, and you feel invited to that as you're watching. I don't know how that's possible, but you just do. I think that's the amazing thing is you're you're celebrating uh you're watching these cast do such athletic activity in a beautiful, edgy, smooth, bitey, funny, gorgeous way.

[35:13] Jamie DuMont: I love that you answered that question, not only with your musical brain, but your dancer brain. That was that was nicely done.

[35:20] David Dabbon: Well on Broadway, you've done a nice variety of things, uh, from Beetlejuice, which was a more contemporary score, to Funny Girl, which is, you know, can't get more golden age than that, right? Dancing is sort of a smorgasbord of everything, right? I imagine each project teaches you something or you have to learn something new, you know, for all these different styles. What is something that working on DANCIN' has has taught you?

[35:41] David Dabbon: It's funny, I I answered this question for myself the other day and then I said that's not the right answer. Cause I I always like reflecting. I think the biggest thing that I've learned from this show is to make a decision, stick with it and see where it plays. And if you don't, then something's usually not right. And I think that pattern has been very present for me on this process. Cause I think people can usually spot when on the creative team when things aren't clicking and when things when you can't stand behind an idea. They can always sense it. And um I think that's the gift I have as an artist for myself and also the thing that I hate about my artistry is is I I don't know how to stand behind ideas I don't believe in.

And the moment I do, you can always tell um it's why I pr probably should never play poker or unless anybody else wants to win, let's play. Right. But I think it's true. Really standing behind your ideas and believing in them is something that I think I think that goes for anything in in life, not just, you know, is really understanding what your perspective is and what you want to achieve and in bringing that and making sure that your idea is being communicated properly. Because it's very easy to feel something, and especially because I I do feel a lot of things. I just naturally do. Sometimes that if I can't communicate it well to anybody else, it doesn't serve anything. So not just under not just feeling it, but also understanding it so that I can express it in a way that allows. And I think that's something I've really learned on this process is that tool.

[37:37] Jamie DuMont: Thank you so much. I it's been such a treat to not only share your enthusiasm for the show and what you do, but also your very unique insight to um an aspect of the show that um I don't think people look at very often. So thank you very much for joining us today.

[37:53] David Dabbon: Thank you so much for having me.

[38:00] Jamie DuMont: A Dancing Man with footsteps on the sense. Bob Fosse's DANCIN' is now on Broadway at the Music Box Theater. For tickets and more information, visit DancinBway.com. Dancin' Man, a Fabulous Invalid Podcast, is a production of OM etcetera and the Fabulous Invalid LLC, and a proud member of the Broadway Podcast Network. Special thanks to Civilian for hosting us and to our audio engineer, Kyle Moore. If you liked this episode, we've got over a hundred episodes of the Fabulous Invalid Podcast that you can check out, including a two-parter on the life, work, and legacy of Bob Fosse and Gwen Verdon. You can find us online at the Fabulous Invalid.com and on social media at Fabulous Invalid and on iTunes, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.