This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Josh: Hey Queens, what's going on? Welcome back to another episode of the Queendom Podcast. I am really excited to have you here. We are cracking on to nearly 40 episodes done. This is insane. And this week we are heading back to do another industry episode with the orchestrator of SIX: The Musical. So one of the guys that helped put all the music together, Tom Curran, comes on to chat to us this week about what it's like getting in the studio and recording all these amazing songs that we know and love and getting to help put the show on stage. So let's not waste any more time. It is time to get down. And you can't stop me because I'm the queen of the castle. Get down, you dirty rascal, get down.

[0:53] Josh: Hey Queens, and welcome back to the Queendom Podcast. This is another industry week this week, and I'm really excited about this one because I have Tom Curran, who's the orchestrator for SIX here with me. Hey Tom, how are you going?

[1:05] Tom Curran: Good, thanks. How are you doing?

[1:06] Josh: I am wonderful, and I'm really excited to get stuck into the kind of musical nitty-gritty. We touched on a bit with Katie a fair few weeks ago, now a couple months ago now. But now we get to unpack it all again with you, and I'm really excited to get stuck in. But first, what's your lucky number?

[1:24] Tom Curran: Four.

[1:25] Josh: Four. Any particular reason, or is it just like something that's always—

[1:25] Tom Curran: Well, my birthday is the fourth, and so I've always found four to be, I don't know, I like the symmetry of four, being an even number and all that. But yeah, four is my lucky number, and it has been kind of forever.

[1:45] Josh: Awesome. What's your favorite animal?

[1:48] Tom Curran: A dog.

[1:50] Josh: Nice, and say dog, I've got a dog, so yeah, have to be that. Out of all instruments in the world, what's your favorite?

[1:58] Tom Curran: Oh my gosh, there's so many. I mean, I'm gonna say piano just because that is my kind of first instrument. It's what I grew up playing, it's what I kind of play now. So yeah, I'll say piano. And it's got lots of keys, so that's—

[2:15] Josh: Now for the hard one. You have the ability to time travel. What show would you want to work on if you could time travel back to be kind of at the initial building stage of that show?

[2:36] Tom Curran: Oh my gosh. I mean probably something like the original production of Sunday in the Park with George, something that was kind of so groundbreaking. So yeah, I'd say Sunday in the Park with George the first time around.

[2:59] Josh: Okay, I love that. There we go. Now speaking of other iconic musicals that you are a part of, how did you find your way to be a part of the SIX family and working on the show?

[3:13] Tom Curran: Sure. So I got a phone call from a friend of mine about actually something else, something completely different. And at the end of that conversation, he mentioned that he'd been to see this show called SIX, written by two young Cambridge University students who were just about to graduate. And he was like, I think you'd be a really good fit for the project. And I was like, okay, yeah, yeah, that's, you know, I'll have a listen. Can you send me some stuff? And so he's actually a mutual friend, he's the link between Toby and myself in the first instance. So he kind of set us up together. I just got sent kind of the very first student production recording of the show, and I'd say from the minute I heard those nine songs in their kind of first form, I was convinced that it was something genius, yeah.

The writing and particularly the lyrics, I thought were well something I'd never heard before in musical theatre, just the wit and the construction and how the music and lyrics meld together, I thought was just so interesting. So I was hooked from that first moment, and then I ended up meeting up with Toby and Lucy just to kind of get a sense of what they were wanting to do with the project and all that kind of thing, and then it kind of just went on from there, and we did these workshop performances. So I kind of came in between the original student production and the very, very first kind of try-out form. I think we did four nights in London. Okay, so yeah, I kind of came in the middle of that.

[5:13] Josh: So, in the middle of where everything kind of started changing in that when things started changing, yeah, when it started to gain some traction, yeah, cool. Do you just want to talk about your role with the show and explain what you do from your perspective instead of me trying to—

[5:24] Tom Curran: Yeah, so I'd say that my responsibility for this show is kind of to do with how the music sounds, the design of the music. So you have costume design, you have lighting design, you have sound design, you know, all those different disciplines are kind of design categories. And so I'd say that as an orchestrator, it's effectively the music design, it's the way it sounds. It's working, it's taking the composer's ideas and expanding them to be played by a band or whatever the lineup is for the show.

[5:24] Josh: Okay, so like breaking down Toby and Lucy kind of write what they want, you make it sound the way they want it, and then for example, right at the start Joe then took that and then put it on stage and actually performed it.

[5:24] Tom Curran: Yeah, so in general the process would be the composer would write something, whether it's by writing it out by hand or singing into a voice memo, you know, the dictaphone. And then that material would then be sent to me to kind of flesh out or expand upon those ideas. In the case of SIX, actually, Joe had written out all of Toby's, you know, kind of recordings of him singing and playing the songs with Lucy in the background, interjecting with the kind of ensemble stuff. So he did a lot of that, the kind of transcription work to get it onto the page, and the fact that's what they use in their very first student production was the kind of Joe's arrangements of these songs. That's generally how it would work in theatre.

You'd have somebody as an arranger to begin with to kind of get that music on the page if the composer hasn't got the time or is not able to notate everything, you know, as they want it. And then I would collaborate with that person, whether it's Joe, the musical supervisor, and the composer to kind of come up with a clear vision. And to be honest, Toby and Lucy had such a clear vision for this, it was undeniably everything you hear is, you know, they have had an input in, you know, in terms of sonically, why it's there, there's a reason to everything you hear in this show, there's a reason why it's there, and it could be justified along the way. I think that is so cool in a respect that you can, you know, you can stand by and be like, yes, this is here because there's a reason.

[5:24] Josh: Yeah, awesome. So with the kind of looking at the keys and the different parts, were the synth sounds and all of that already kind of set in stone by the time you came on, or did you have a hand in kind of finding the right sounds for certain instruments and that type of thing?

[8:44] Tom Curran: Yeah, effectively it was when I got involved, it was effectively I was given the freedom to start effectively start again, start from scratch. Toby and Lucy, we made a rule, they made a really comprehensive list of references to popular artists and pop songs and just music in general that they wanted to kind of have that sound but on their music. So I was given a very clear roadmap from the beginning of, you know, we want, in no way, for example, we want the drum groove in the chorus to be the same as two minutes and 30 seconds of this song, you know. It was like effectively trying to match up or extract elements of existing, you know, pop repertoire and impose it onto their music, and I think that's for me why I found this project so extraordinary because it was like nothing I'd ever done before, trying to work out why something sounds like it does, and then how to get that out of that track and then the essence of that put it onto the music in SIX.

[10:03] Josh: That is so cool. I love that, that just that thought of them like listening to a song and being like, cool, we want that.

[10:10] Tom Curran: Yeah, can you find that? Like that's just—

[10:12] Josh: Yeah, there's a Google Doc somewhere of just lists and lists of like ex-wives and then the references that they both hear for certain sections and all that kind of thing, and it was just my job to basically put that all together and be like, how about this? And then it would be a backwards and forwards, you know, we do changes and revisions, and even up until Broadway, we were still tweaking. I mean, it's just a never-ending evolution of refinement and stuff like that.

[10:44] Tom Curran: Amazing. I love that. So part of your job is also kind of rearranging the tracks too, is that correct?

[10:50] Josh: Yeah, what do you mean by that?

[10:54] Tom Curran: So, like, so say we get a Boleyn that isn't a soprano, she's an alto or something like that. You then rearrange the tracks and vocal arrangements for each queen to suit, yeah.

[11:09] Josh: So the essence of it stays the same.

[11:12] Tom Curran: I think if you know, and they're very clear from the outset in terms of casting that we're not casting carbon copies of something, it's very much, you know, the performer bringing their own spin and their own experience to the role. And so you're right, in some instances the keys of some numbers have to change because of voices and ranges and all that kind of thing. So yeah, there are a few discrepancies and a few differences between different productions where certain numbers are in different keys. But I have to say it's very marginal, it's kind of like semi-tones or, you know, two semi-tones either way, it's minimal. In terms of harmony redistribution, that is like the harmonies are written, and Joe wrote all the vocal arrangements in the show, so they're kind of all there.

And then it's up to the individual companies and their music director to assign if things need to be jiggled around and swapped, and you know, for example, Aragon sings the second line rather than the top line, then those things are kind of sorted in rehearsals. And I wouldn't really know who's singing what on any production, it's just kind of it's set in the rehearsal room, and that's kind of later on with that.

[12:33] Josh: Yeah, that's cool. All right, that clears that up. That makes a lot more sense in my head now. Another cool thing with this show that you had a hand in was the studio recording.

[12:46] Josh: Um because I've seen you I've been watching the videos and little snippets on um YouTube and that type of thing, and I say you poppy in and out. Um, so what was that experience like taking this show from the student cast, building it up to going on an extended production of the West End and then going into a studio with it and then having to kind of replicate everything to a point where you knew it was going to be listened to over and over again forever.

[13:16] Tom Curran: Yeah, I mean, there is a huge responsibility because as you say, these recordings get pressed and then they are out forever, and they're gonna live on the internet or you know, wherever um forever, ever and ever and ever. So there is, you're right, there is a kind of responsibility to capture the absolute intention um of the music, um, and especially the music on a kind of a cast album style recording. Um what's cool as well, actually, is that the the conception for this at the beginning was uh was that the the live show would be the live version of a fictional album that the band would have made, if that makes sense. So when you go and see six, you're effectively seeing the live concert of their studio album, effectively, but yet the studio album at that time didn't exist.

So now so then when we got the opportunity to do the album, it was like, okay, we're now making the album that the live stage production is effectively based on, but we did it the other way around. Um so we we spent a lot of time um refining um in that period before we recorded, we went in to record the studio album. We spent a lot of time kind of going back through every single bar of music and refining and trimming and just making sure it's absolutely the intention for these songs to be able to stand up on their own out of context, which is the most important thing. Um, which is why you'll hear people say, Oh, you know, there's the you know, when you come and see this live, um, some of the songs have you know, they they're given a completely different meaning.

[15:03] Josh: I was literally just about to say that things like um Amy with um I just want you to do it thank you. I just whoa, um my brain just went no, but like there's the emotional kind of gravitas to that show doesn't come across that song doesn't come across on the album as it does on stage, and when I heard it for the first time on stage, I was like, Oh, okay, that makes so much more sense because this is kind of the tracked version, and now we're kind of amplifying it for stage, and yeah, and also I think you know, you're adding in choreography, you're adding in lighting, you're adding in, you know, the fact that you're seeing it live in front of you, which you obviously you never get from listening, you know, on headphones to an album, so there had to be a decision made that you know these songs had to stand up on their own.

[15:57] Tom Curran: So for the album versions, as you know, as as you alluded to, the the um when you don't have all those elements combined when you're watching it, you know, it's a it's a slightly different thing. Um but it's an equally valid interpretation, you know, it it worked in a kind of standalone way. I love that. So yeah, it was fun. It was fun to um to get a chance to make the album that the stage show was based on, um, you know, and add live brass section and string section, you know, and all these extra instruments um on the album and guitars and you know, all that kind of thing that we got I got to have loads of fun with all that.

[16:38] Josh: Um so in that studio setting, refining the songs back that much. How much did you guys learn about where the show was currently at, and then look at what was currently on stage and adapt from that point, because you kind of stripped it right back again once it got to a certain point, and then that would have kind of revealed a few things, I guess, as well.

[17:02] Tom Curran: Yeah, I think at that time, um, there weren't many productions of this show on. I think there might have only been one, yeah. It might have only been the kind of London original London version. Um I'm trying to get the timeline right. I think we did this album. It's funny how like all condensed it is because you think of the time, it's really only five years, and it's like I know it's bizarre. Um the album was done in 2018, I think. I think that's right. So just before the first instance of the tour, you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm I'm Googling right now. Um and of course the YouTube video is 2018, 31st of August. Yeah, so I think that's just before, or it was released at the same time that we went to Norwich to start the um the I think that's right, the the first production. So the album was done in between the workshop stage and the first professionally put on its feet version of the show.

[18:13] Josh: Okay.

[18:14] Tom Curran: Um so yeah, it kind of went in that mid that in the middle of those two things. Um but it's funny now because actually there's elements of the album that we've now put back into the show. So there's this kind of two-way thing of um, you know, we did things on the album that we liked so much that we're like, hey, that has to go back into the show, and then so we ended up putting some of that stuff in. Um yeah, just little bits and bobs, you know, all over the place. And we've mentioned the different casts, so what's it like for you knowing where you came into this show? Um now knowing the show's toured Australia, going on to Broadway, done UK tours, cruises. What's it like knowing that kind of it's grown from this little college production to this huge worldwide sensation?

[19:07] Tom Curran: Yeah, I mean it's when you when you take a step back and you realize what's happened in the space of under well, it's like three years or something, it is um extraordinary, and I don't think anyone could have predicted at the beginning that this would have happened to this show. Um yeah, it is bizarre to think that it's you know obviously not right now at the moment but but it is it kind of all over the place and yeah it's uh it's weird to think that yeah that that shows it but I think you know part of the reason is because it it it's had such a connection with the fans and um it it resonates in a way that maybe other shows at the moment haven't done or I don't know it's it's a combination of things I think it's kind of uh yeah it it's it's multiple I think it's multiple things and I think the fan the fan base is so strong and loyal um which is amazing to see I have to say you know that just the kind of um the positivity online about this show I think is uh is amazing um and I'm kind of one step removed in that respect that I'm not involved in the everyday running of it and the I'm not involved in rehearsals really and and um you know it I see it in a different way but but but it's still you know uh being a part of something that has grown so quickly yeah is really yeah and it's funny like looking back on the YouTube videos of those kind of early productions when you could kind of see in the room that it was a buzz of like cool we're we're doing an album like we're actually doing this now and it was kind of like a really it just looked like a really fun exciting where what's next kind of feel and I was like that just sums up kind of this show at a creative standpoint.

[21:06] Josh: It always feels like, okay, what's next?

[21:09] Tom Curran: Like there's never really a roof set from that perspective. Yeah, and I think the album really helped to get the music out in the world. Because I can I guess before that, you know, it would be a few things on YouTube or um you know word of mouth and um you know whether you'd seen the show in a in an early version but I think when when the the songs got released it then opened up the fan base kind of worldwide effectively suddenly that music was available um all over the place and um you know you turn up in Chicago for the first Chicago run and I mean I was there for the opening and and everyone already knew all the words and and it's it's that thing of going you know it's because of the album that people have been able to connect before they've even seen it and they you know are going wild for it.

[22:04] Josh: What was your first reaction to seeing kind of the zhuzed up version of the show so once you kind of came in did the album and then went to Norwich and onwards what was that like kind of seeing the show grow from that point and being in the room the first night it was kind of performed to that?

[22:04] Tom Curran: Yeah, I mean yeah the production values went up a step from the workshop. I mean the workshop was very um minimalistic in terms of you know set and costume and everything was very much kind of we're just presenting the next version of this show from on from the student version just to see the reaction and so then to to then go another step um you know with bringing in Tim you know the lighting and and um you know every element was and then amplified again um yeah really exciting and actually it's funny because even that from then on it it every time we we do this it it you know it notches up again and again um you know yeah the the production values keep keep getting stronger and stronger um and yeah it is amazing to just when all those elements work together when you you know when I sit in the back of the theatre and you um you know you're watching effectively watching the audience watch the show um and watching all of our kind of our design aspects work in a way that you know we we kind of all intended it it really is a satisfying thing and yeah it's cool.

[22:33] Josh: Yeah, uh so with that type of thing because obviously Tim's lighting is very in sync um with the music and that type of thing so um did you have any hand with working with him to be like cool this is coming up and helping him kind of set his lights because he works very much off the beats and that type of thing or was that kind of just all him free reign?

[24:05] Tom Curran: Yeah so I think the kind of aesthetic for the show is obviously a it's a pop concert concept so you know lighting and music in pop concerts are very synchronated you know it it it's um the relationship between the two I think is really important and you know most theatre you know that there is a there is an aspect of that but but nowhere near to the level of of of kind of trying to replicate a pop concert inside of musical. So it was very clear from the from the beginning that there needed to be synchronization between lighting and music and you know, beats and um changes of colour in the music also you know imply a change of colour in the lighting and all that kind of thing. So there is definitely a um there was a strong link.

[24:55] Tom Curran: So I effectively sent Tim kind of tracks of the music. I mean, these are going back, you know, two and a half years now, the kind of very first versions I did. Um and it's again it's been an evolution from there. So you know, he effectively created the lighting um to go along to the music tracks. Um it's all uh click tracked and you know time coded, so everything can be absolutely in sync. Um so yeah, and it's fun because you know we keep adding we keep adding new things, and um, you know, for the Broadway production, we we even there's there's some new music and stuff in there.

[25:36] Tom Curran: So there were new moments of lighting that had to be, you know, programmed in and recorded, and um yeah, I love it when the music and the lighting can sync in a way that it's kind of satisfying, and you know what you're hearing is also what you're seeing.

[25:52] Tom Curran: I think that's really cool.

[25:53] Tom Curran: Yeah, and that that's what captured me the first time because like I went into the show obviously knowing the music pretty much off by heart, and then sitting there and watching kind of the first thing that got me was the like his no-way kind of light that kind of build as it goes, and I'm like damn. Like okay, all right, we're going here, all right. Um so from obviously, this is a very young creative team, which is very rare um in big productions, but most productions as well. So, what's it like being in the room with these young hungry creatives that are kind of just striving to be the top of their selective creative channel and just kind of pushing and feeding off each other to make this experience the best possible thing it could be?

[26:48] Tom Curran: Yeah, it's amazing actually to have such a young creative team. Um there is something really special about that actually, and um I feel like the energy might be different as well because of it. I don't know, there's um yeah, we're all young, we're all, you know it's just weird to see a show that is you know that's had such a success, you know, but yeah, the people behind it are all so young, it's just a weird thing, but it's yeah, it's amazing to be a part of that for sure. Um yeah, I don't know what else to say really.

[27:22] Josh: That leads perfectly into my next question. Um talk me through the moment of getting the notification about the Olivier Awards and what that was like knowing, oh okay, yep, okay, we're actually this is official now, we're actually pretty good, yeah.

[27:41] Tom Curran: Yeah, I mean I remember I was at home and I was I don't know what I was doing to I was was doing something completely unwork related or maybe watching TV or something and my agent texts me and was like, oh my god, like you know, congratulations, amazing, and then I'm like, what's the I didn't even know it was like Olivier um nominations announcement or whatever, but then yeah, sure enough, I see that this show is being nominated for um multiple things and it is that kind of thing you just go, okay, actually, you know, even to be considered, even for the show to be considered in the same kind of on the same level as some of these other massive players, um was a real shock to me actually. And you know, for the rest of the day I had people on the phone, you know, ringing and being like, Oh my god, I can't believe it, can't believe it. And then I think, yeah, the atmosphere in the theater that night must have been, you know, electric because you know, they'd all been nominated for yeah for Olivier Awards bizarre.

[28:47] Josh: Um so did you have a hand in because obviously I don't think the before the Olivier's uh the kind of X-Wives Six mashup hadn't really been put anywhere. Were you kind of a part in figuring out how to take the two songs and smacking my microphone there and putting them together?

[29:09] Tom Curran: Yeah, so that that was uh that that was an assignment for I think first of all for that that award ceremony was to push those two together. So yeah, it that involved um well first of all working out how to do it, and then I think there's four there's four bars of like linking um material that had to be created. Um so yeah, I had to do a had to do a kind of a demo of that, and then obviously the the the the usual approvals and you know, um and then yeah, for that award ceremony we had our on stage band, and then we also had the orchestra, um, the Olivier Awards orchestra. So it was a step of then okay, going, okay, well, that's the routine that everyone's happy with, and you know, carry on and and all the creatives are uh happy with that, and then um I then blew it up, kind of one step, kind of you know taking our album material and and you know orchestrating that version of for the for our album um instrumentation, and then it was taken another step up for the orchestra. Um so yeah, it's kind of a multi-layered thing.

[30:20] Tom Curran: And that's funny because that version is now being used uh in multiple other places. Um kind of like the official promo kind of thing now.

[30:31] Josh: That's right.

[30:43] Tom Curran: I love that. Um so with working on this show so in-depth and knowing things kind of inside and out. What is your favorite part of the show musically?

[30:55] Tom Curran: My gosh. Um now we put it on the spot, guys. There's there's so many, there's so many parts that I love. I just think the writing in general, I have to say, is is amazing, and you know, I I kind of feel like Toby and Lucy, they don't know how clever and good it actually is. It's almost like they're they're so humble about it and so not naive to it, but but but it is like you know, you've you have created something that is you know exceptional. Um I have many musical favourite moments, many um geeky musical moments that probably people won't even pick up when they listen to it, but there's lots of little satisfying things for me um in there. Um I have to say, my favorite my favorite moment on stage when everything is kind of come together.

One of my favorite moments is the at the end of the show when the girls are standing in their kind of six positions with the spotlights straight down and they're singing it's the end of the show with the history remix, and it kind of everything quietens down for that kind of 20-30 seconds of music. Um I don't know why, but that is my favorite. Um there's something so it's the simplicity of just having them stand with these spotlights straight down on them, and um the back wall of the um of the rosters kind of like twinkling away, and and yeah, I just love that moment of the music and how that uh you know is reflected in all the other design elements. I think it's cool. But there's lots of there's lots of little geeky, I mean I could talk for hours about let's go into the geeky stuff because I never listen and hear it.

[32:38] Josh: And like so talk me through it.

[32:40] Tom Curran: Oh my gosh. Um that's what we're here for. We're here to kind of get everybody's brains flu uh flowing into how amazing things like this can be.

[32:51] Tom Curran: Yeah, I think what one of the briefs um was that the um they were very keen to keep the kind of Tudor um references flowing throughout, not even not only in the music, but also in all the other design um areas of costume and the set design, even that that that lattice behind the wall, um, you know, is is um yeah, there's there's Tudor references all over the place. Um and the music, especially so that you know, a lot of these sounds um that kind of Toby, Lucy and I just sat in a room and kind of came up with these synth sounds, and um, you know, finding the right noise for the right moment and the right whoosh and all this kind of thing, and you know, I yeah, if you go back and listen, that there's a lot of these synth sounds that are kind of it's a synth, but it's also got harpsichord inside it as well.

[33:44] Tom Curran: So it can't be like I've noticed that there's like several different ones as well, where it like at first listen it sounds like a synth, but then you listen and it's like, oh, actually, that's like it's almost layered, and it's yeah, I so that yeah, there's a lot of that, and and that was something that I was we were all really keen to kind of make that a thing, so that it's not just you know, there's a clear um you know, I mean it's really crude, but kind of Tudor reference music reference like recorders and harpsichords and lutes, and and and yeah, it's just splatter all over the place, and even that green sleeves um melody that the whole of the opening number is kind of made up on, yeah.

[33:44] Tom Curran: Um you know, I tried to find a way to incorporate the um that that you know that musical figure um into other places where you know when you're listening, you probably wouldn't even know. I think my my favorite hidden um green sleeves um the second part of green sleeves that goes. Um the end, I mean, this is going completely into the massive detail, but the end of Amberlyn's opening section in the opening number, um there's a little kind of Glock thing, Glockenspiel thing that goes dun dun dun dun, which is it's that phrase of greensleeves but the rhythm is slightly altered and no one would ever know but but it's kind of satisfying that there is like the second part of greensleeves is actually in there it's things like that the techie and me wants to kind of sit down and just look at kind of like the um like the pro tools kind of just see how many tracks and how many different little notes and oh I'm this has just blown me away I'm like this is great um I don't even know where to go next um let's go here let's see if this brings any other things up um say we get another massive sickness sweep through and it gets to the point where you're the only one in the area that knows the content and they need you to go on to cover somebody what queen are you choosing to go on for?

[34:54] Tom Curran: Oh my gosh. Um I mean I think I have to be I have to be Jane Seymour just because I feel like yeah I'm happy to stand and sing a a ballad and you know writing everything else but yeah I think I'd have to be um probably a Seymour but not that I would ever ever want to have my um my acting single dancing skills um so we meant you mentioned the kind of writing.

[36:48] Josh: Um lyrically, what is your favorite kind of section of the show that every time you hear you're like, how did you even come up with that?

[36:59] Tom Curran: Like where I mean there's there's lots of moments that I'm just like, oh, it's just that's so damn clever. Um the whole like pheasant thing, I think is just amazing, like the bring me some pheasants, yeah, all that.

[37:15] Tom Curran: Um there's so much kind of um kind of wordplay in like two meanings for the same word, like history's about to get overthrown. It's overthrown, but it's also thrown as in sitting on a throne. I mean, it's things like that, it's just so clever.

[37:33] Tom Curran: Um yeah, I mean the lyrics throughout, I think are are amazing. I I could yeah name numerous examples. I think um uh you know, don't lose your head, another example of just like hilarious and funny um you know lyrics, and yeah, it's just all very it's just very current and very now, and I think that's why it's resonated again because you know it's it's teaching well, it's it's history, but in in a way that has you know through those lyrics it's become so um relatable and accessible and and fun, and I think that is that is another kind of secret to its um you know success in inverted commas.

[38:19] Tom Curran: It's it's yeah, it's it's the lyrics uh uh just captured so many people's imaginations and going, oh, is that so clever? And yeah. Is there something you've learned through the show that you maybe didn't know historically?

[38:33] Josh: Definitely, yeah. I think I'm honestly but I kind of knew I knew the wives of Henry the Eighth, and I knew I knew the order of the rhyme, but I guess that's as far as you go with it. And yeah, I didn't I didn't know the backstories and I didn't know about Hans Holbein. I think that that whole segment of the show is just it's just so clever, and the lyrics in that that one are very, very um are very very good as well. I mean they're all they're all amazing, but yeah, uh uh learning about that and you know that you know Cleve's effectively won history by you know her settlement and agreement and and and yeah, it's it is amazing how you just you just don't know about these uh the these characters um in any kind of detail really.

Um certainly learning history in uh in school in the UK, you just learn you know he had six wives and da-da, and that's really about it. I mean, you know, may I I think I knew that Am Boleyn had six fingers or something, I don't know, but yeah that's something I didn't know where whether I was like I heard that and I was like, oh I'm gonna have to Google that later.

[39:40] Tom Curran: Yeah, that's interesting. Um come on, I had it, where was it? Now we're gone. Guys, that was a good question too, I promise. Um back overall, um what is your favorite thing about this show?

[40:08] Tom Curran: I think it's the fact that it has captured an audience's imagination in a way that I I haven't really seen with other with other shows. I think there's something, I mean even just being on that in that first preview on Broadway, um, was the most incredible experience in a theatre I think I've ever had. There was just something so it was the anticipation for a show that had kind of whipped up a fandom through its kind of mini journey through America but before it kind of um found itself in New York. But but there was just such a hype, and um I was just sitting there going, I just can't believe this is you know that all these people have come to see this show, which started out, let's face it, in a conference center in Edinburgh in a student production.

Um there's just something I think just seeing that journey of a show um and seeing the audience come along for the ride, I think it's just yeah, it's amazing. And have to say that that first um Broadway preview was um very very special indeed.

[41:28] Josh: Yeah. Did you go to Broadway Con at all? Were you a part of it?

[41:30] Tom Curran: No, I I flew out the week or just the week after, because that was was that a weekend, like Friday to Sunday or something?

[41:39] Josh: Yeah, it was a Friday to Sunday. It was I think it was the week you guys started rehearsals, I want to say it was the weekend before rehearsals started.

[41:47] Tom Curran: Yeah, so I think I flew out the end of that end of that week. So I think you flew in the day or two after I flew out because I was there.

[41:56] Josh: So yeah, like that that was the perfect kind of example of the hype, like just did you go to the um they do a sing along?

[42:06] Tom Curran: Yeah, that's where I was going. Um have you ever been in the venue for a sing along?

[42:14] Josh: No, I've never been in the theater when I've got a sing along. Um I think I quite I think I'd be um I'd be like this most of the time as it is that but yeah. Um I think that's that's also cool. The fact that you know the show has found a way to present itself as a singal on production. Um I think there's a few others that I think he's maybe have tried to do that or have have you know on tour. I think they might have done I'm not sure, but yeah, it's not a common thing to open up a show and be like, hey, come along and sing along.

[42:17] Tom Curran: Yeah. Um I think the music lends itself to that perfectly to start with. I think the fact that people know all the words and are so up for singing along. Um yeah, I I heard about Broadway Call and I heard it was um one of those amazing experiences of just it it baffled me. Like obviously I'd seen kind of things from the UK, but to be in the room and I was like right at the front of the group too, so everyone was like shouting it, and I was like it's weird to think how much this show means to people.

[43:26] Josh: Um, considering it's like a historical kind of retelling. It's got those life lessons and stories throughout that people are learning from and are really connecting to, which another testament to you all for creating something that is so um what's the word? Inviting, I think. Like it's a I think it's uh as well. I think it's the message, the the kind of the message this show sends out and beams out all over the place, I think is so important and so vital and strong and powerful, and kind of you know we we will not be defined by men and and just the whole kind of feminist aspect and and um you know reclaiming stories that have you know forever being told by you know a man's perspective, and there's just something so powerful about that, and it's so relatable now, probably more than ever.

Um I think another reason why people have kind of you know really come on board with it, um, is just the this the strong message and the the positivity and you know all that kind of stuff. It is it is a and actually to see to see the show in different in all different places as well is very um you know it's very eye-opening, and yeah, to see people connect in such a cool way.

[44:46] Tom Curran: Yeah, awesome. Um now you aren't just a six guy, you do have ventured outwards of the queen. So let's touch on a couple of other things because you you worked with Toby on Hot Gay Time Machine as well. Um then West End Bear, Sound of Music. What's it like learning from a show like Six and then going to other projects? Like how much of you developed as a as a creative through this process to venture out into other projects and beyond?

[45:21] Tom Curran: Yeah, I think this project was certainly on the edge of my comfort zone, and I think that is why I found it so rewarding to begin with, but also it was just such an enjoyable creative experience because you know, songs like get down are far out of my comfort zone in terms of being able to uh work with that kind of style or more musical material so I think to have a show that explores kind of the pop sound but from from kind of well nine different angles if you want to compartmentalize all the songs into different styles yeah it certainly um was the most exciting thing I've I'd ever worked on in terms of you know being a part of a creative team and and music and all that kind of thing but yeah I've learned a huge amount um a lot of a lot of what I did on six was also kind of music production so I don't normally do a lot of that in in in other you know legitimate or traditional musicals um where it's can I know you know orchestral instruments or whatever so the kind of pop production um was well it really opened my eyes to what what's possible and um just how to create sounds uh you know how to that process of extracting the sound of one song and kind of finding a way to put that onto Toby and Lucy's music um yeah was was thrilling and and something I'd never had to do before um it's also very different working with composers who are living I have to say like you're doing that instant feedback of hi we want this yeah but also because it's such a two way thing and and you you know it's open to you know interpretation and all that kind of thing whereas you know if you're working on a revival where the composers are dead or whatever then it's almost you that there's a certain way that that stuff has to be um and yeah I love working on on new writing and I think it's just so exciting and there is there's a lot going on I think it's just um you know only once in a while do things really um I think when the stars align in a way that allow projects like six to really take off um do we see that kind of thing but there yeah new writing for sure is is is is is always really exciting.

[45:21] Tom Curran: Um, amazing. Um, now for people that are listening that maybe you're on the more creative side of theatre, maybe you don't want to be a performer or anything like that, obviously this is a very viable route to take. Um, do you have any advice for people that maybe want to get into orchestrating, arranging, and going down that side of theatre? Yeah, um, I guess I started off effectively, I was always interested in theatre, always interested in, um, you know, singers and singing. I was in a choir, all this kind of thing, so I think I always had that interest. I moved to London to study and just got involved in all kinds of extracurricular things, whether it was playing for cabarets or, um, you know, doing gigs with a band and some singers, you know, just trying to throw myself into, um, the kind of London music scene or, or to be honest, wherever you happen to be or studying.

I think it's just, uh, the advice I give is that if you're going to university to study, not even to study music but just to study, then find those extra, um, curricular activities, the kind of, um, yeah, all those opportunities which I'm sure are out there. You just have to go finding them. And I just did a lot of, a lot of playing for cabarets and just slowly kind of, um, you know, a lot of fringe theatre as well. I did a lot of when I was just kind of starting out, a lot of London fringe theatre. Um, yeah, I think the best way to do, to get the best way to do arranging is to do arranging. Like, you know, anyone can song if they're, if they're, if they've got any interest in, in, you know, wanting to do more.

I think is, you know, to take a song and to add instruments or to, you know, to just do your own arrangement of it, you know, whether it's for your own personal, um, you know, just for fun or for a gig or whatever it is. I think there's, there's always a, yeah, a way to, a way to get into it somehow.

[49:51] Josh: Amazing well Tom that brings us to the end thank you for coming and hanging out um it's been fantastic chatting this side of the show and I've learned so much and it's been really really cool. So Queens I hope you guys have learnt a ton too and you're gonna go and listen to the recording just like I am right now and uh hear everything that Tom's just spoken about. If you don't already please go follow Tom his uh links will be down below um show him some love because he is an amazing human being and a very smart intelligent human being if you can't tell by what he was just talking about because damn um other than that we will be back next week with a brand new episode of the podcast uh so we hope you join us and we will see you then we't wait to one moment with success.