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[0:00] Alan Seales: Welcome to The Theatre Podcast. Intimate personal conversations with theatre's biggest names. Now part of the Broadway Podcast Network. This episode is with Astrid Van Wieren, who is a Canadian actress who went to La Jolla with Come From Away, did the workshops there, and then made her Broadway debut in her early 50s with Come From Away when it opened on Broadway. And this episode, I did not expect it to go where it went, but I'm so happy it did at the end of it after we got off mic. She was saying it was a bit like therapy, but in a good way. We talked about kind of spinning off of 9-11, of course, you know, the focus of Come From Away and whatnot. One of the last things she said about the show actually Come From Away is that she was saying the story of a guy the other day that came to her after the show and said that, you know, he's been carrying around the sadness and this weight of 9-11 for personal reasons for, you know, 18 years now.

And now seeing Come From Away for the first time, it brought closure to him in a way that he didn't expect because, you know, Come From Away, they say it's a show about 9-11, but it's really a show, she said this, is like a show about 9-12, the day after, the few days after, where through the midst of all these bad times, there was true selfless kindness that just happened to thousands and thousands of people because that's just what the people in the town of Gander, just that's what they did. They didn't even question it. So it's a really good interview. I encourage you all to listen completely to the end because it just goes in a direction at the end that I was not expecting. But before you do, please visit me online at thetheaterpodcast.com. You can show your support through thetheaterpodcast.com slash Patreon.

And if you're a $5 tier or higher, you get advance notice of who we're interviewing. So you can actually get your questions in. Everybody, please enjoy this episode with Astrid van Weeren. Here you go, one, two, three.

[2:04] Alan Seales: My guest today is a Dora award-winning Canadian actress who made her Broadway debut in Come From Away back in 2017 and has now performed her role of Beulah over 1000 times. She's currently starring in the new Canadian film, The River You Step In. Astrid van Weeren, welcome to The Theatre Podcast, eh?

[2:43] Astrid Van Wieren: Does that mean I owe you 50 bucks?

[2:46] Alan Seales: Well, you said I have to do the whole thing.

[2:47] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, the whole thing.

[2:48] Alan Seales: You owe me 50 cents.

[2:49] Astrid Van Wieren: Okay, I can do that. 50 cents.

[2:50] Alan Seales: 50 cents, that's right. Well, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for coming out here. Obviously, you're from Canada. I guess that's why I probably not politically correct, just offended somebody who's listening.

[3:06] Astrid Van Wieren: They'll be okay.

[3:07] Alan Seales: Okay, so you're from Canada. Where did you grow up? What was your childhood?

[3:11] Astrid Van Wieren: I grew up in London, Ontario, a small town in southwestern Ontario, and grew up to a dad who is a teacher, retired now, and a stay-at-home mom, and siblings, and very insular community in some ways. Very Dutch, Christian Reformed church, went to a school that was sponsored by a church and that kind of thing. So, an interesting upbringing.

[3:35] Alan Seales: How many siblings do you have?

[3:36] Astrid Van Wieren: I have two sisters, they're twins, and my brother. They're all three of them older than me.

[3:42] Alan Seales: All three? Okay.

[3:43] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, I'm the baby.

[3:44] Alan Seales: I was going to guess you were either third or fourth, because I think-

[3:49] Astrid Van Wieren: I'm kind of both those, because I am the fourth child, but the third event of birthing.

[3:55] Alan Seales: Third event of birthing? Is that even in English?

[3:58] Astrid Van Wieren: Third birthing event in your mom's body.

[4:03] Alan Seales: Yes.

[4:04] Astrid Van Wieren: Sure. And then, so was there any sort of like, I'm the baby, need attention, that led you into-

[4:11] Astrid Van Wieren: Definitely. I'm sure there was a lot of that, but my parents also loved the theater, and so I got taken to the theater. And I remember going to see Peter and the Wolf, and going to the Grand Theater in London, and then getting involved in music, a lot of music in high school. There wasn't really a theater thing in my high school, but yeah, I lived out in the country then. So, we were living right off the highway, and I was going to a rural high school by that point. And my best friends were my neighbors, who were 65.

[4:40] Alan Seales: So again, my parents, yes.

[4:42] Astrid Van Wieren: Wait, how many people were in the town?

[4:45] Astrid Van Wieren: In Arva? Not very many, but everybody was bused into the school, from Lucan, and Hensal, and Exeter, and cities that nobody's heard of, who's maybe listening, except people who are from there, and they're great towns. They're great people, but it was a very, very small town. And I lived right where the four-lane highway became a two-lane highway, and there was nobody around us except the Jenkins, and they were lovely. They were such lovely people.

[5:07] Alan Seales: So you hung out with older people?

[5:09] Astrid Van Wieren: I did. Yeah, and friends at school too, but yeah.

[5:14] Alan Seales: Right. Did anybody else in your family, were they involved in arts, or singing, or dancing, or-

[5:20] Astrid Van Wieren: My mom was a music teacher. She's just retired recently, so for elementary school kids. And my mom would sing louder than anybody else in church, so that counts for something. Actually, my mom had, she's passed, but my mom had a beautiful singing voice, and was definitely, if she hadn't been a mom, she would have been a performer. She was a performer.

[5:36] Alan Seales: But when did you first get into performing yourself?

[5:38] Astrid Van Wieren: I would walk around the house pretending to do Shakespeare when I was five, and I would do little, yeah, weird. I would watch, there was something called TVO, Shakespeare Introduced, or something like that, and I would walk around as if I was, I can't do it now. I was probably more, I was smarter when I was five than I am now.

[5:53] Alan Seales: Oh, kids are so smart.

[5:54] Astrid Van Wieren: Kids are so smart. And I would do shows in front of my fish pond, and charge people a nickel, and make a nickel.

[6:03] Alan Seales: Well, I hope you got 10 cents from your 65-year-old neighbors.

[6:07] Astrid Van Wieren: At that point, I hadn't moved to the country yet, so I was still in the suburban, living on Toulon Crescent, and pretending to be a Charlie's Angel, and that kind of thing.

[6:18] Alan Seales: You have an odd recollection for street names. I've lived several places in my youth, and I'm trying to remember Northwest 39th Street, maybe that was one, and Belcher?

[6:31] Astrid Van Wieren: Isn't everybody supposed to know the first street they lived on so they can know their porn name, isn't there a porn name or something?

[6:36] Alan Seales: Or like a security recovery question?

[6:38] Astrid Van Wieren: Yes, yes.

[6:39] Alan Seales: A password recovery question?

[6:40] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, exactly.

[6:41] Alan Seales: I really...

[6:42] Astrid Van Wieren: You really don't remember?

[6:43] Alan Seales: Yeah, I have no idea in New Orleans where I was born. I have no idea what that street was, because I left as a little one.

[6:49] Astrid Van Wieren: I recently thought I was born in a different hospital than I was born in, because I had to get my birth certificate for some paperwork, and I thought I had been born in St. Joseph's Hospital, and I was actually born in Victoria Hospital in London. So, it's a fun fact, but yeah, I totally lied to myself for years.

[7:07] Alan Seales: I don't have any, no one has an original copy of my birth certificate, because they misspelled my middle name, the hospital did, and then crossed it out and hand wrote in the correct version, and then photocopied that and sent it home with my parents.

[7:28] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, that's not so official.

[7:30] Alan Seales: No one can find the original, but that's, I mean, I've got plenty of IDs and a passport and everything now with the correct spelling, so I've faked my way into the correct spelling, I guess.

[7:41] Astrid Van Wieren: Wow, I used to think that my middle name is actually Kathleen, and I used to think that it was Kathleen, and I used to get quite angry if people said, no, your name is Astrid Kathleen Van Wieren, and I'd be like, no, it's Kathleen. I always wanted to add an extra syllable for some reason, a flair for the dramatics perhaps.

[7:56] Alan Seales: What if people called you Astrid?

[7:58] Astrid Van Wieren: That I wouldn't enjoy. That I wouldn't enjoy. It took me long enough to get used to the name Astrid, frankly.

[8:03] Alan Seales: You don't like it?

[8:04] Astrid Van Wieren: I love it now, but when you're little and you have an older brother and your name starts with A-S, and you can switch the I and the R in my name and make it sound like something not nice. So there you go.

[8:19] Alan Seales: Yeah, brothers are horrible. I was horrible to my older brother. But yes, I was researching you obviously for the podcast here, and you've got lots and lots of Canadian credits, and you've done theater in Toronto. And then, well, I guess, yeah, so you were working way up in Toronto, and this is possibly another ignorant thing I'm about to do, ignorant question, but in Toronto, or in Canada, are people into the Broadway scene? And is there an equivalent sort of, like in London, there's the West End, in Toronto, is there an equivalent to-

[8:57] Astrid Van Wieren: In Toronto, we do have some big theaters. We have the Mirvishes, we have the Royal Alex, the Princess of Wales, but there's a really thriving theater scene there. But I would say it's almost more like an off-Broadway feeling. I mean, there's really creative, innovative playwrights. I've done so many different readings, and there's a great gay theater there, Buddies in Bad Times, where I did a lot of theater when I got out of theater school. And The Fringe, there's a Fringe Festival, the Toronto Fringe, it's huge. I don't know how many venues they have now. They have Bring Your Own venues, so I guess it's limitless. Yeah, there's a great scene there, and people love Broadway as well. I mean, we are very close to the States.

I mean, we eat your culture, we watch your TV shows. I think that's one of the reasons we have so many comics that come from Canada, because we're always observing in a way, there's a bit of distance. We're not American, and yet we speak the same language, except for French Canada, we speak the same language. We watch the same stuff. We're kind of similar political system. Not exactly, though. So it's interesting. We're great observers of the American culture.

[10:05] Alan Seales: A little more progressive, I would say.

[10:08] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, in some respects. But there's definitely been some swinging the other way, unfortunately, out there, for me. I mean, that's where my politics lean. So I'm more of a leftist socialist sort of, what a terrifying word, but socialism only in the sense that we do kind of look out for each other, which I don't think is a bad thing. I don't mind paying taxes. If my taxes go to help somebody who needs health, or I don't want somebody to lose their home because their grandmother got cancer.

[10:36] Alan Seales: That's actually something about you that I wanted to get into later, but then this good segue now that the role of Beulah you're playing in Come From Away, and the whole town of Gander came together in, I guess, the Canadian way, and just helped people in need. And we'll get to Come From Away, but I want to talk about you, and you personally. You embody a lot of these characteristics yourself, right? You help people that are in need and are very philanthropic.

[11:07] Astrid Van Wieren: Well, I hope so. I try, but I will say that this show, Come From Away, has made me kinder. We always like to say in our company that it's taken the edges off of all of us in some ways, because it's so easy to be cynical. It's so easy to go negative, and there's kind of, it feels almost delicious and powerful. And I'm not saying I don't sometimes go there. I love a good gossipy tale or something, but then you do think about, well, what am I putting out there? What am I putting into the universe? And kindness is something we can all do. So I think that's sort of what the show has taught me, and that sounds so Pollyanna, but it's the truth. I look for ways to be of service during the day, and I have a better day when I've held doors for people and helped people with strollers and that kind of thing.

[12:02] Alan Seales: Are you, I guess, that to me, I wouldn't consider myself a spiritual person. I'm not religious, but spiritual, I guess, like I've said on this podcast before, that when you're on stage and you're able to command an audience to collectively over hundreds or thousands of people simultaneously to travel together emotionally.

[12:17] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, it's a good way to describe it. It's like a journey.

[12:20] Alan Seales: Yeah, and that's my version of spirituality.

[12:24] Astrid Van Wieren: Mine too.

[12:25] Alan Seales: Is it?

[12:26] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah.

[12:27] Alan Seales: I was going to ask if you were more of a spiritual person, because you talked about your mom in church at the beginning.

[12:29] Astrid Van Wieren: I grew up in a very religious household, and I have a lot of respect for people who have that faith. I think it serves a lot of people well. I hope that they really look at the teachings of the church that are the kindness ones and kind of leave some of the Old Testament behind. But for me, in a way, theater has become my church. There's ritual to it, there's community, there's lessons, like a good sermon, a good play. It shouldn't be preaching at you, but it reflects back to you, perhaps, a better way of living, even by a negative example, or just thinking, oh, we're so complicated and weird, and that's okay. We can all look at each other as just being on this planet, trying to do our best.

[13:14] Alan Seales: Oh, God. I think last night, I was listening to Tanya Pinkin speak, and she was saying something about, and I know I'm going to butcher this, but part of the reason she loves theater is because it allows people to experience alternative, to change their emotional reactions without actually going through the literal traumas. Because the amygdala, she was getting all of the neuroscience of all of this. The amygdala will only evolve reactively, so you actually have to go through an experience to then learn how to handle it next time. And so by an audience sitting through someone going through a traumatic experience, watching that on stage, they can then react to that, and they can then be a better person based on what they're seeing on stage.

[14:04] Astrid Van Wieren: It's creating empathy. It's like a muscle that you're working. It's the same thing if you go to the gym, which I hear.

[14:09] Astrid Van Wieren: I try to run every day a little bit to get warmed up for the show. But it's like a muscle. When you work it and work it, it gets tired, but it learns how to be stronger. And I think not that people are tired at the theatre. Maybe that's not the best metaphor, but it's the same kind of thing. You're working your heart muscle. You're working your emotions and your brains and you're thinking, oh, do I agree with that character? How would I respond? And also for our show, specifically, people come who have had that trauma, that 9-11 trauma, and they come and there's a chance to be together as a community and kind of purge it together. I spoke with somebody the other day after the show. He was a first responder and he said something really beautiful that he said this closed the circle for him.

And there was something about that image that his trauma and his pain and his experience and seeing a show where he knew that there was balance in the world, that there was kindness happening somewhere else when this horrible thing was happening, created for him this sense of, okay, I'm a complete human being. I'm not just walking wounded. I can take all of this with me. And something about the music and he was much more articulate than I can be about it, but it was very powerful. And that's not an unusual experience to have people come and tell us these things. It's been 18 years and he was still carrying that. A lot of people packed it away. And that's what theater does too. It allows you to revisit something in a safe space together.

There's a kind of like we're all collectively grieving and remembering that day or learning about that day. We have a lot of young people come to our show and we're in it together. We're breathing together. There's something about live theater that is extraordinary, absolutely extraordinary. People laugh, they respond, they make noises, and it's like a dialogue. It's really not we're performing and they're there. They're listening is active and we feel it as performers.

[16:11] Alan Seales: Well, the energy of the show, it's 100 minutes long, right?

[16:19] Astrid Van Wieren: 100 minutes. Okay, so 100 minutes. It feels like 90. Well, no intermission was my point. 100 minutes, no intermission. And from the first downbeat, it just doesn't stop. And I think it's very, the music and the writing and the direction is all reflective of how frantic it must have been to go through that, to live through that, to live through being in Gander or to be stuck on a plane and literally was stuck on the tarmac in Gander. And that's one of the reasons they didn't put an intermission in it. It was to give people that sense. And also if people leave and they have their intermission, they start thinking about their own 9-11 stories, they start talking, and then you have to get them back into your story. And because it has such an indelible print on so many people, they're kind of running that tape of that day under their own experience while they watch it. So to release them and then try to bring them back would be difficult, I think.

[17:11] Alan Seales: I didn't even think about that angle, but yeah, that totally makes sense. I mean, it's obviously a conscious choice not to put an intermission into a show.

[17:18] Astrid Van Wieren: Yes, they're quite brilliant.

[17:26] Alan Seales: So tell me about Come From Away then. How did you get involved originally? Because you opened it in La Jolla.

[17:32] Astrid Van Wieren: La Jolla, yeah. I'm really bad with time. I think it was five years ago now.

[17:36] Alan Seales: 2015, according to the internet.

[17:38] Astrid Van Wieren: Oh, good. Okay. So I'm so grateful for the internet sometimes. It's like having an extra brain, but a dangerously extra brain, a dangerous extra brain. You know what I mean? That has lots of anonymous YouTube comments.

[17:49] Astrid Van Wieren: Yes, strange, strange, absurd, odd things on there. But I know David and Irene because I auditioned for their first show, My Mother's Lesbian, Jewish Wiccan Wedding. I know, say that real fast. My Mother's Lesbian, Jewish Wiccan Wedding. It's about David's moms, about his mom and his mom falling in love and rediscovering her Jewish roots and then getting married to a woman who was Wiccan. So My Mother's Lesbian, Jewish Wiccan Wedding. And I actually, I booked it, but then I turned it down and went and did some summer stock. And then the show got picked up by the Mirvishes from the Fringe Festival, where it was performed, and then put into a bigger space. And I thought, wow, I made the wrong decision.

And it was such a beautiful show. And they were such lovely people. And I contacted the director after I heard they were going to add one female and one male chorus member. And I said, I don't need to be in the, you know, carrying the show or being one of the leads in the show. I just would love to be in it. A, I want a job. B, these are really lovely people, and I really dig the show. So I got to do it. So that's how I got to know them, which kind of got my foot in the door to audition for Chris, Chris Ashley. And I actually didn't book it.

[19:03] Alan Seales: Really?

[19:03] Astrid Van Wieren: Come From Away, no, I was second choice. But it was a couple days of waiting for somebody to turn it down. Yeah. Yeah. And so I always like to tell that story, because I know a lot of people who listen are performers, and you just never know what's going to take you to where you end up. So you can't, you know, sometimes you turn down a show, and it ends up becoming something amazing. Or sometimes you are that person who gets that shot. So I feel really, really lucky to have gotten that.

[19:33] Alan Seales: So you got that. And I mean, it's not a show of dancers, but all of you move so much.

[19:41] Astrid Van Wieren: We do. And we have some, there's a funny YouTube video that we did for the Easter Bonnet, which kind of tells people our experience as dancers. We did not have a dance call. I don't believe that Kelly Devine, our amazing Olivier Award winning choreographer, expected us to be quite that much, how do I say, more mover than dancer. You know, so I think that was a bit of a surprise. And there were some adjustments that were made. But she's brilliant. And she worked it on the bodies that she had. And I think it's kind of extraordinary. Sometimes, again, what seemed like a limitation, I think, ended up being a big bonus for this show. Not that I don't, I don't, I know Kelly's too smart to have done split jumps and make this a dance heavy show. But I think something about us being good movers, but not dancers, informed what's now on the stage.

[20:39] Alan Seales: Oh, totally. And to me, it makes, it's part of the characters. And it makes part of the show is to see people that, I mean, I want to say, traditionally don't look, they're not your tall, skinny, kick-to-the-ceiling dancers.

[20:46] Astrid Van Wieren: Exactly. And, and you guys are all doing...

[20:57] Astrid Van Wieren: That's one of my favorite comments that I get, actually. I remember walking on the street and a woman stopped beside me, she went, Beulah? And I was, yes, Astrid, nice to meet you. And she said, oh, you, you can dance. Like, as if she was like, really shocked that somebody of my size and whatever could move. But I don't mind. I actually find that quite delightful.

[21:17] Alan Seales: Well, it's fun. It's fun. So the show itself then, so you came, you auditioned, well, that's how you got involved with the show, went to La Jolla in San Diego, performed there, and then obviously came to New York. Did you expect it to last as long as it has?

[21:36] Astrid Van Wieren: Yes. Because of that energy we get from the audience, because I think the show is still building an audience in a strange way, because it really is a word of mouth show. Because people go 9-11 musical, that's kind of the phrase that gets used sometimes. It's really more of a 9-12, you know, musical. It's a response to a tragedy. But people get nervous about it, but as soon as they come, they want to come back, and they want to bring their friends, and they want to bring their family, and they want people to experience it, because they can't quite explain why it's such a positive experience. Except that it's just, it is. It's so truthful. Everything in the show really happened, so there's that sense of authenticity. People are being nice to each other. There's never a bad time to have a show about kindness, and it's fun. There's a lot, people are really surprised at how funny the show is. The show is very funny.

[22:29] Astrid Van Wieren: But you uprooted your life, essentially, moving from Canada to the U.S., and you've been here, like, you totally changed your life for this show, right?

[22:39] Astrid Van Wieren: Yes. And it's been amazing. I mean, who doesn't want to come to New York if you're an actor? I mean, I can't believe I'm on Broadway. I still sometimes think I'm going to wake up from this dream, honestly. That sounds so cheesy. I hear the words come out of my mouth, and I'm like, that is so cheesy. But to be 52 and have your Broadway debut, it also rhymes, which is cool. But that's kind of extraordinary. And I was enjoying my life already, so it's a real, you know, I was already doing some really cool projects up in Canada, and had to turn down a few things to come and do this.

[23:12] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah?

[23:12] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah. And I thought my career might be winding down as I got older, and it seems to just be heating up, which is really cool.

[23:19] Alan Seales: There's a lot. I feel like the late 30s to early 40s, and correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe for women, like if you either look like an ingenue or you look like a mom, and there's this weird middle ground where you just kind of can't get cast.

[23:38] Astrid Van Wieren: Well, I think that's changing because people are writing stuff for things that are not just moms. Or an ingenue, because there's a heck of a lot more to women than mom or ingenue. You know, so it's like superhero, villainess, you know, femme fatale, business owner, best friend, lead, all of it. There's so many, there's as many stories as there are people. So that's pretty cool.

[24:04] Alan Seales: Yeah, actually, and that probably corresponds to a rise in women in the writer's room and in the production crew.

[24:12] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah.

[24:12] Alan Seales: And the creative team, right? Because they're all of a sudden starting to build all this up.

[24:17] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, it's exciting. It's a great time.

[24:19] Alan Seales: I love it.

[24:19] Astrid Van Wieren: It's a really, really, it's a time of diversity and also different stories being told, and who doesn't want to, nobody wants the same tropes like trotted out over and over and over again. I mean, there's a weird comfort in that, but how wonderful to be challenged and to be, and to realize you have a movie with a woman in the lead or something, people want to see it. People go, you know, box office is like, that's great. And yes, everybody's always going to love explosions and superheroes. I do. But I also like those. I just watched some movie from, I can't remember if it was from Denmark or Sweden. And it was just this beautiful story about a woman whose husband left her and she ended up becoming this soccer coach in this youth center.

And she knew nothing about soccer. It was one of those feel good sort of stories, but it was so delicate and so sweet. And I just loved following her story. I think it was called Brigitte Was Here or something like that. Apologies to the filmmaker, but I don't remember the title in English what it was.

[25:23] Alan Seales: You did get to meet the real Beulah, right?

[25:25] Astrid Van Wieren: I spent my last big vacation last September in Newfoundland, hanging out with Beulah and one of my best friends, Lisa Horner, who plays Beulah in Toronto. It was absolutely one of the best trips I've ever had in my life. We landed in St. John's, we had St. John's and we had the best time. We drove to Gander, we stayed at Beulah's house. Lisa tells a great story because Beulah knew me a little better than she knew Lisa. So in the morning she woke Lisa up, but then Lisa said, well, why isn't Astrid up yet? And Beulah said, oh, she needs her sleep. So Lisa came and pounded on my door. And as she tells the story, I sort of came out all sleepy eyed and she wanted to be annoyed with me. And she was like, I just hugged her or something. And she was like, oh, geez. It was pretty funny. She was like, what in the world was that about?

[26:22] Alan Seales: But I talked to Chad Kimball episodes ago and he was saying that too, that all the cast, you're all friends with all the real people.

[26:28] Astrid Van Wieren: It's a very odd and wonderful thing. It really is. It's strange.

[26:39] Alan Seales: I guess. Does she come to see the show a lot still? Probably more in Toronto.

[26:45] Astrid Van Wieren: She has been. Well, they've been all over the world. I mean, they've gone to England, they've gone to Australia. They've gone to some of the places that the tour has stopped. Yeah. They're celebrities now. It's really quite fun.

[26:57] Alan Seales: Oh, that's so cool.

[26:58] Astrid Van Wieren: And I love seeing the way they're all handling it with such aplomb and fun. And also with a sense of gravity about what it's about. We're really lucky who represents us out there because they all get it and they're all lovely about it. And they all love the show.

[27:14] Alan Seales: Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. Recently, 9-11 was almost a month ago now. Was there like a change in the audience reaction around every year?

[27:28] Astrid Van Wieren: It becomes more electric. The wound feels deeper. Sometimes the laughter doesn't come as easily right away. There's a sense of reverence that it's not that we have to break through it because that's always there around the story and around our love of the story and taking care of our audience that way. They're in good hands as soon as they come in. As soon as you come in, it's a rural setting and there's chairs and tables. So there's nothing frightening and there's...

[27:57] Alan Seales: There's even a bale of hay on stage, right?

[27:59] Astrid Van Wieren: Nope.

[28:00] Alan Seales: Oh, okay. Wrong show.

[28:02] Astrid Van Wieren: Nope. That's Oklahoma.

[28:04] Alan Seales: Yeah. Oh, I know there's benches. I'm trying to remember the set. It's been a while since I've seen the show.

[28:09] Astrid Van Wieren: It's okay. You come back. Chairs and tables and trees.

[28:19] Astrid Van Wieren: Around that time, I actually took my vacation last year at that time, and I think it was subconsciously I didn't want to be in the city, maybe? I don't know. Also, I love September. It's one of the most beautiful fall months. So that's when we went to Gander, my friend Lisa and I. And we actually saw the documentary You Are Here, which premiered while we were there. So we ended up getting to see that, which we hadn't planned, but that ended up happening. But yeah, we did the Day of Service, which was a two-show day. And so we went to the Intrepid, and we packed lunches, and we sang for the people, the volunteers there. And there's just, there's a real tightening of our community during that time.

I think we're all taking care of each other because there's a lot of press, there's a lot of things going on, we're all a little tired. And the show, definitely you have people who come back. It's not unusual to like end up holding somebody as they weep. Sometimes you take them for a tour, and I remember this lovely gentleman recently who just kind of fell apart and had a good cry. And he was there with his sons. I remember looking at his sons going, see, your dad's got a huge heart. You should be proud of that. And they were like, no. Their dad was an artist, a composer guy, so I mean he really has that sensitivity. But yeah, you'd be prepared for almost anything around that week. Well, it's hard, it's hard to find someone, especially around the city, who didn't experience it in some way, either personally or through somebody else who experienced it.

Like I worked for a company that had an office a couple floors on the top. And one of the people that was my boss at the time, he was telling me the story, he was like, I was supposed to be in that meeting and I called in sick that day. And then like, you know, there were 15 people that were gone from the company that I could have been working with. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean it. Life can change in a second.

[30:14] Alan Seales: Yeah, especially around here with eight million people.

[30:17] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah. In this tiny little 12-mile island. Isn't it amazing though? I mean, shout out to New York. It's an incredible city.

[30:24] Alan Seales: Oh, we're resilient as hell. And people really took care of each other during that time as well. I mean, I always like to say, islanders and islanders, right? In a way, we're all islanders here on the Isle of Manhattan. We'll add the Burroughs as well, because they're good peeps. So, you know, but there's that sense of we look out for each other. We may gripe and groan about the tourists and they walk too slow and get off your phones. And we have this kind of like thing going on. But I think ultimately, we see somebody who looks mildly lost. And we are, where do you need to go?

[30:55] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah.

[30:57] Alan Seales: And we're there and we help, we assist.

[30:59] Astrid Van Wieren: I saw somebody yesterday morning on my way to work, taking a picture of the subway map in the subway car itself. They're taking a picture of it. And I showed them the subway map app on my phone. I was like, you just need to get this app. And they were like, oh, oh, yeah, I didn't think about that. Sometimes when you're a tourist, your brain just doesn't work. I've been a tourist at other places and sometimes you just, your brain does not work. You're on vacation. And that person probably felt a little silly. I would think.

[31:26] Alan Seales: Well, they're like, oh, I see the light going on. So I want to, I want to shift over to your TV and film career. Because The River You Step In is a new Canadian feature film.

[31:38] Astrid Van Wieren: It is.

[31:39] Alan Seales: That you are now in and it's going to receive its inaugural public screening at Anthology Film Archives here in New York, which is on Canadian. The premiere is going to be on Canadian Thanksgiving Day.

[31:50] Astrid Van Wieren: Yes. And I promise it's not a turkey. So if you're looking for turkey on Thanksgiving, don't come see the show.

[31:56] Alan Seales: Well, I'm going to ask them what Canadian Thanksgiving Day celebrates, but real quick, it's October 14th at 7 PM.

[32:02] Astrid Van Wieren: Which is also Columbus Day here, right?

[32:04] Alan Seales: Indigenous People's Day.

[32:06] Astrid Van Wieren: Much better.

[32:07] Alan Seales: Yes. I was going to say, that's good. That's a good name change. We'll take that.

[32:11] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, Indigenous People's Day is much less offensive.

[32:13] Alan Seales: Yes. But so what is Canadian Thanksgiving Day giving thanks for?

[32:18] Astrid Van Wieren: It's more of a harvest thing. It's not specifically one event. Actually, I probably should have researched this because I don't really know. I've just celebrated it as long as I can remember. And it's earlier than your Thanksgiving. And it's not as big a deal, necessarily in Canada as it is here. I find sometimes people will come home for the holidays with their family for Thanksgiving and not necessarily Christmas. Does that make sense?

[32:42] Alan Seales: It's not like celebrating.

[32:44] Astrid Van Wieren: It's not that it's a bigger deal, but it's more of a family, like your immediate family unit that you do for Thanksgiving. And Christmas, you might go to your girlfriend's family's place or something.

[32:53] Alan Seales: So you're not celebrating when white men gave them all smallpox. Right. Okay.

[32:57] Astrid Van Wieren: Right. Although we did, Canadians, we always like to say we're, you know, we have not treated our First Nations people very well. And that actually comes up in our film. There's some, the character that I play in the movie is a social worker. And one of the things that she is living with is the fact that she had a First Nations client that she convinced to, you know, turn herself in and she ended up committing suicide or we're not sure. And that's the backstory. That's not the main story of the film.

[33:28] Alan Seales: Is this based on a true story?

[33:29] Astrid Van Wieren: No.

[33:29] Alan Seales: It's all fiction?

[33:30] Astrid Van Wieren: No, it's fiction. But unfortunately, there's a lot of truth in it in the sense that there has been, you know, murders of Indigenous women and First Nations women, and definitely our government has dropped the ball. Even just saying it like that sounds so flippant, but drop the ball is such a, you know, not an expression that really captures the horror of that. And there are incredible, incredible actors that we have in our film. There is a service that we have in the movie that comes up. So you find out a little bit about her backstory, but it's what's propelling Stevie to try to be a better social worker. So she's kind of on empathy burnout. She's literally letting people stay at her house.

And so it's kind of like you're finding her at the apex of things are about to really explode. And you get to meet some of the people that she works with and that she's trying to help. And I'm sure I have a much better way to pitch this film, but it's just once I start thinking about it, it just starts to kind of, I think about, oh, yeah, and there's that about it. And there's that about it. And it starts to kind of unravel in my mind. I'm just glad it's done. It's out there. I'm really excited that people can come and see it.

[34:47] Alan Seales: How was the filming process? Because you're still in Come From Away, but filming a feature film, I assume it was filmed in Canada.

[34:55] Astrid Van Wieren: It was filmed in Canada between Seattle and Washington. So two summers ago.

[35:00] Alan Seales: Okay.

[35:01] Astrid Van Wieren: We did it in, I think it was 23 days, less than 23 days. It was a really quick shoot.

[35:07] Alan Seales: For low budget. Yeah, that's about right.

[35:09] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah. Or was it 13 days, 23 locations or 23 days, 13 locations? Seriously, some of it's a blur when I think about it.

[35:17] Alan Seales: Really?

[35:18] Astrid Van Wieren: Well, did you leave? Obviously, you had to leave Come From Away. Did they let you out for that?

[35:23] Alan Seales: No, I was in between our show in Seattle and Washington. I had a little bit of time off. I actually managed in the last five years to fit in two plays, a musical and a film. I don't like to not be working. And like the film was self-produced with some other people and I helped write it as well. But it's not just all me, thank goodness, because I would get sick of myself. But there's some really beautiful Canadian actors in it. So I'm glad they get a little exposure as well. Northern exposure.

[35:57] Alan Seales: Yo, what's up?

[35:58] Astrid Van Wieren: What's up, Abe?

[36:01] Alan Seales: The role, okay, so the role of Stevie is very, again, very philanthropic and is helping others. But when you were presented with the script, is it something that, or when you're presented with any script, like, are you looking for something that really speaks to your heart or speaks to your wallet? You know, like, obviously you want a little bit of both.

[36:25] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah.

[36:25] Alan Seales: But what, where do you go when you're looking for your next thing?

[36:30] Astrid Van Wieren: I like it to be something different and exciting. And I love working with different people. So it's always the people that draw me, the people in the story. So one of the plays that I did during that sort of off time between some of the cities, I played a really horrible person. I played a politician who has a daughter who's spiraling out of control and all she can think about is her, is getting elected. And Taking Care of Baby was the play. And it was just, it was great to dig into somebody who was horrible as well. I don't know, I don't need to always play kind and loving people. I think it's actually really fun to explore, you know. But the thing is, those people don't think of themselves as dark and horrible.

[37:11] Alan Seales: Right.

[37:11] Astrid Van Wieren: And that's the interesting thing as an actor. It's always just, they're trying to keep their head above water. They're just trying to figure things out. They're just trying to, they think they're doing the best thing for themselves and their family, usually.

[37:22] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[37:22] Astrid Van Wieren: And, you know, even in the Scottish play, I mean, you know, it's ambition gone completely.

[37:29] Alan Seales: Wackadoo.

[37:31] Astrid Van Wieren: I feel like there's a lot of negativity, speaking to what you just said about people not realizing they're doing wrong. I think there's a lot of negativity because they develop, they just developed a habit of just like shooting out the first thing that comes to their mind. And, and what you had said, very early on in this conversation about, you know, you wake up and you just, you want to think about phrasing things in a, in a positive way and you get practice, you practice the muscle of empathy and the muscle of, of, I guess, you know, you want to put love out there in the universe, right? So instead of being like, that was the worst idea you've ever given me, it's, well, you know, there's some room for improvement.

[38:10] Alan Seales: Let's build on that.

[38:11] Astrid Van Wieren: Let's build on it, manager speak, kind of. But there's some truth to that.

[38:16] Alan Seales: There is some truth to that.

[38:17] Astrid Van Wieren: There's a lot of truth. And I really, I like that, I like that there are people out there that are actively combating that.

[38:24] Alan Seales: Well, yes.

[38:24] Astrid Van Wieren: And it is active and not just actively combating negativity outside of myself, inside of myself as well. So I think a lot of times when people are being negative, it's because they haven't, they don't feel built up. They don't feel supported or heard or seen.

[38:39] Alan Seales: When people feel seen or heard, they're immediately in a better position to operate from a place of positivity.

[38:48] Astrid Van Wieren: You know, I think.

[38:50] Alan Seales: Have you been there? Have you been like on the other side?

[38:52] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, absolutely.

[38:54] Alan Seales: Absolutely.

[38:55] Astrid Van Wieren: And when you're a performer, there's going to be, you try not to wrap up your whole sense of self-worth in how people respond to you as a performer. But it's really hard because if it's your passion and what you love, if you put out something, if you put something out there and people don't respond positively to it, or you don't book a gig or, you know, a director's giving you notes that you think, oh my God, I just cannot, I can't get this. It's hard not to just feel shut down. I mean, that's one of the things I know that I would do instead of necessarily becoming negative or angry. I would just shut down and get a little paralyzed or frozen.

[39:32] Alan Seales: So I kind of would have to thaw myself out again.

[39:35] Astrid Van Wieren: And I have great friends and loving, loving people in my life who help with that because people say, oh, you know, you can't love anybody unless you learn to love yourself. But I just read something recently. I don't think that's all the truth of it. I think it's really hard to love if you have, if that hasn't been modeled for you or if you haven't been a recipient of it.

[40:03] Alan Seales: So, yes, it's great just, you know, to say, hey, you got to love yourself and then you can love other people, but you need to have received some love at some point.

[40:08] Astrid Van Wieren: So I think a lot of damaged people or people who are negative are people who have not been seen or heard.

[40:12] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[40:12] Astrid Van Wieren: And I totally agree. It's all coping mechanisms that we're seeing.

[40:14] Alan Seales: That's what I've learned recently in, in, in a bit of therapy is from a lack of modeling from my parents more or less. And it, and it's just being honest with yourself about how you're feeling and being honest with the others that you're close to.

[40:29] Astrid Van Wieren: And yeah, I, I didn't have that modeled for me and now it's, you just hit the nail on the head and I had never thought about this about myself before in this way, but what you said a second ago about, um, you get, when you kind of, you lose that, that acceptance and then you get frozen and you have to thaw yourself out.

[40:49] Alan Seales: You do.

[40:49] Astrid Van Wieren: And I, I get there. I used to get there a lot when I was younger. I'm almost 39 now and, and actually having kids has changed me a bit because I can, just two, two, four and a half and three.

[41:02] Alan Seales: They're little ones.

[41:03] Astrid Van Wieren: That's a fun age. I was a nanny for sort of around that age. I've done like hundreds and hundreds of different kinds of jobs. And that's one of my favorite. I love kids. I don't have any of my own, but kids are really awesome.

[41:10] Alan Seales: They are, they're constantly making you look at the world differently and you find yourself, you think, how can I say the same thing a hundred times, but they giggle and laugh every time and you find yourself doing it.

[41:25] Astrid Van Wieren: And it's like, it's almost meditative. It's so super fun. Kids are, kids are simple and great and complicated all at the same time. I'm going on a tangent real quick, but most times, most evenings when I come home, my three-year-old, he comes over, he gives me a hug. He's like, daddy, daddy, glad you're home. And then he immediately goes upside down, puts his hands down, stands on his hands and sticks his foot up in the air. And he goes, I want you to swing me one time real fast. And that's become our thing is that I take him to the living room, hold him by the ankles and just swing him back and forth and he's over and over and over again.

[42:02] Astrid Van Wieren: And that's one of the most joyful moments of your day, isn't it?

[42:04] Alan Seales: And it's so simple.

[42:05] Astrid Van Wieren: Just swinging.

[42:06] Alan Seales: And if I don't do that, it's like he starts crying and it's the end of the world. And he's like, I just want you to swing me one time real fast.

[42:12] Astrid Van Wieren: Can you imagine when he, if he's like 18 or 19 and still, he did it, so that's that.

[42:27] Astrid Van Wieren: In New York City. I guess I'll get there. What I'm saying is that, yeah, when I would not get that validation, when I would not get, what I've realized now is a reassurance of love, you know, and I would kind of externalize that in being like, I need to be on stage, and I need to be in front of people, I need to talk with all this. But yeah, I would just shut down. And I used to just call it being in a funk. That's what I would tell, you know, my girlfriends or whatever at the time. I was like, yeah, I'm just in a funk. I just want to be by myself right now. And I would just have to, I'd have to really like concentrate in a way that I would, and I would second guess myself too. And I would think, well, this is, is this stupid for me to feel this way?

Well, that's the thing. You can't judge our emotions when you're feeling like down or whatever. Like it doesn't even necessarily have to be negative. It's a, it's a regeneration process. It's a different time. Like we, if we can reframe it a little bit in our minds. Like when I get into funk now, sometimes I kind of, I dig in and I go, yeah, like I'll listen to some blues and I'll, I'll be like, I'm really down and I feel really, really sad. I mean, for some people, like I'm not trying to dismiss for some people, it's major. I'm not talking about like major depression or anxiety. And some of that's really chemical for some people. And I'm, you know, not suggesting that, you know, you should just dig in and then everybody's fine.

But I think sometimes we're afraid of the big emotions because we think, oh, that's going dark or that's going negative, but some of it's not a bad place to sit in for a bit. If we don't, as long as we don't stay there, that's the danger. That was, that was probably some of the best advice that Bill Hader gave me without knowing he was giving me advice. I had a conversation with him once and Bia, Bia! I love him. He's amazing. I was chatting with him and we were talking about his, he suffers from like legit anxiety stage fright every single time before he would go out on stage for SNL. And what he learned, what he had learned was not to push it away, not to, to ignore it, but to say, you know, all right, all right, Mr. Anxiety or Mrs. Anxiety, you're here, you're in me, I'm acknowledging you and now, okay, move past it or use it or whatever it was.

Or use it. Sometimes some of those things can actually be useful. Some of the best art comes out of those moments of sheer terror or anxiety. Yeah. Yeah. So without, without knowing he gave me that advice, I actually, I use that a lot. I tell people this story a lot because when they'll talk about their anxiety and of course, like on being in New York, in the theater scene, talking to successful Broadway actors, there's tons of anxiety. That phrase alone, I hear that and there's a whole bunch of things, just what we're talking about that goes, that go on at the same time. I go, wow, that's really cool. He just said successful Broadway actor. That's me. It's part of me that goes, oh my God, when are they going to find out that you don't deserve to be there?

Imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome. And then there's also part of me that is like, bullshit, but that's not true. I can't, that's, that can't be true. Yeah. That's not my life, but it is. So it's, there's a constant sort of, you know, we're running a whole bunch of different, you know, things in our head at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the, what I talked to my therapist about, about the, the little, you know, it's kind of the angel and the demon, right? But it's, um, I don't, I guess I have the angel too. The angel, I guess is what, it really is the outward projection is what I'm trying to live, but it's constantly fighting what you're talking about. The, the, the demon of like, well, I mean this, we're 46 minutes into this conversation.

I hope she's enjoying herself. I'm having a great time. And I hope your publicist over there, I was going to help me. Like if people listening right now, are they, you know, should I even continue to do this? Like I have all these thoughts going through my head while I'm in the middle of having this intense conversation. And I think it's amazing for people to hear that because I think every person in the world has a lot of thoughts running through their mind all the time. And the, the difficulty is, I mean, which one do you let win? Which one do you let rule you?

[46:53] Alan Seales: Is that the digging in that you're talking about?

[46:56] Astrid Van Wieren: I think sometimes dig in and see what it's about, but also like, not to be so terrified of it. Like, you know, like, come on in sadness, have a seat for a while. How do you serve me? Am I going to be kinder because I understand this grief that I'm feeling? Or is it like, okay, and now you know what? On your way. I can't be sad for one more moment. I'm going to go seek out something that's going to make me happy. And New York is great because you can go see a film, you can go see a play. You know, and I know that the people will say, oh, then there's a lot of expensive things too, but there's a lot of free art. There's, I go to the galleries, I've now joined the Guggenheim, the Met and the MoMA.

And it's not a lot for a year to be a member. And that means I can go anytime I want and just look at some of the best art in the world and just be awed by it and inspired hopefully. Sometimes it can make you shrink and go, well, I'm never going to be that, but I don't need to be Meryl Streep. A friend of mine once said to me, a dear, dear friend, and he struggled with wanting to be something really incredible. And if he wasn't going to be the best at it, he didn't want to bother. But what kind of, I know I'm not going to be the best actress in the world. I always have room for improvement. What happens if you, I mean, I'm not Meryl Streep, but I'm working my butt off to be the best actor Astrid can be, that I can be.

Oh my gosh, I just talked about myself in the third person. That sounds weird. See, judging myself. And my friend said, well, what if, you know, you're not the best, how can you be happy? But that's, I don't need to be the best to be happy. I enjoy what I do. I enjoy telling stories. I enjoy singing. I enjoy, you know, my colleagues. I really enjoy my colleagues. We have the best cast on Broadway. Do you think Meryl thinks she's Meryl? What I mean by that is, you know, everyone's like, I've heard so many people say, well, I'm not Meryl Streep. But do you think she walks around thinking, I am the number one actor in the world? No. Everyone compares themselves to. I bet she doesn't. I bet she thinks, I could have done that scene a little better, or I'm going to try to go and try something different.

I think she's, from what I've observed of her work and stuff, she's always working things out. I don't think she has time to sit there and, I don't think, she doesn't strike me as somebody who's narcissistic or self-absorbed, only in so much she needs ego to do her job. I mean, because we all have to have a certain amount of ego to assert ourselves. I mean, stress and tension is what keeps us, you know, holding, you know, stress and tension is a negative thing, but it's not completely, because if we didn't have any stress or tension, we'd be amoebas on the floor. Right. So it's the same thing with ego. Nobody wants to be all ego, but you need some to get the job done. I don't know if she would, I have no idea.

It would be great if we can go in her head. Meryl, if you're listening, I want you on the, call in, I want you on this podcast. We'll have Astrid back and we will do a great chat with you, Meryl. But let's see, you have a show to get to, so we should get to our standard closing questions that I ask all the guests on this podcast.

[50:10] Alan Seales: Cool. The first one being simply, what motivates you?

[50:13] Astrid Van Wieren: What motivates me? Wow. Kindness, trying to get it right, trying to do better, kind of a meditative, let's get at that and work it out. And I also want to get paid.

[50:31] Alan Seales: Sure. Yeah. If I want to be truthful. Yeah. It's nice to make money as a performer, because I have many times not had two nickels to rub together. So the fact that I earn a living being an artist blows my mind. I used to actually look at bridges and think, could I live under that bridge? And I say that with no disrespect to people who end up in those positions. I used to think that might be me when things were really rough. And I used to think, and I still sometimes will think, oh, I wonder what services are available, if I need that, or, you know, can I sleep on a subway all night? Would that be safe? These are things that I think about sometimes.

[51:12] Astrid Van Wieren: Wow. Money, just a simple answer, money. Next question then, what advice would you give to your younger self and younger people listening now starting out down a similar path?

[51:24] Astrid Van Wieren: Well, to my younger self, I would say, you're gorgeous. You're beautiful. You're gorgeous. And love your body and take better care of it. That's what I would say. To anybody getting in the business, make sure you really love telling stories and that you really love people. And that's why you want to be in it. If it's just ego driven and just you want to get to Broadway and that's it, that might happen for you. But once you get here, if it isn't the love of the storytelling and it isn't the love of people, you're going to have a pretty empty existence. So make sure you really, really love what you do. Someone said to me once, just remember wherever you go, there you are. I always say that.

[52:01] Alan Seales: Oh my gosh. I say that phrase all the time.

[52:05] Astrid Van Wieren: Really? Well, people will say, oh my God, you're in New York. So everything must be amazing. It's like, well, wherever I go, there I am. So I bring all my stuff with me. So you bring your baggage, you bring your negativity or your positivity or whatever it is. Yeah, a bit of both hopefully. Exercise that empathy. All right. So last question, hardest one. If you could only see one show for the rest of your life, but you can see it as many times as you want, what would you see?

[52:24] Astrid Van Wieren: Oh man. What would I see? Oh, probably Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf or can I pick two? I can only pick one. Only one. Because you know why? Because that one's really long and there's a lot of drama and comedy in that. Drama. Or Come From Away, honestly. Have you watched it? I have. I actually swung out once and I watched it and it was incredible learning experience. I think anybody in a long running show should swing out at some point and watch their show because it's fantastic. It was Tanya Penguins again, was saying that during previews, she likes to swing out so she can watch her understudy and she'll take stuff from the understudy and work stuff back into the show. She's got some of her best material from watching somebody else do her role.

I'd be terrified to take somebody else's bits. Not that I haven't. I'm sure there are people who are like, Astrid, you've stolen some of my bits. I also went to the Toronto Company. I saw the Toronto Company's opening and they were brilliant and awesome and mostly to support my friend Lisa, who's playing the same role. It was a bit weird to watch somebody play the part that you've done so much, but she really made it her own and was really true to the Beulah. I'd love to go see the West End Company and I'd love to go to Australia and see. I am also a fan of my own show, which sounds a bit like eh, but it's such a good show. I love being in it, but I'm also a fan.

[53:57] Alan Seales: Yeah, well, there's a good reason for it. It's such a great show.

[53:59] Astrid Van Wieren: All right, so we can find you online at Astrid Van Wieren on Twitter. Are you on Instagram?

[54:02] Astrid Van Wieren: I am AstridVW2020 on Insta. Is that what the kids say? Yeah.

[54:08] Alan Seales: On IG.

[54:09] Astrid Van Wieren: IG. And on Facebook, I mostly keep just for like 2,000 of my closest friends. But seriously, people I have actually met or had conversations with who are friends. So if I don't, it's nice to say this, actually, because people do send friend requests after they see the show, which is really lovely. And I do sometimes read the messages and stuff. But if I don't add somebody as a friend, it's not because they aren't a worthwhile human being. It's just I can't keep track of everyone. And it starts to make my head want to like... Facebook also, I don't know if they still do. They used to have a limit. I think there's a cap at 5,000. I'm not there. I've got, I don't...

[54:44] Alan Seales: Well, yeah, but if you just accepted every friend request you got, you'd be at 5,000 and then you're the real friends that wanted to request you, you can add.

[54:51] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah. And come see the movie if you get a chance.

[54:55] Astrid Van Wieren: Come see the movie. Yeah. And you can get more information at theriveryoustepin.ca, all with hyphens in it.

[55:01] Astrid Van Wieren: Yeah, I know. I don't know why we did that. It's so frustrating to type, but it's like the hyphen river hyphen you hyphen step hyphen.

[55:09] Alan Seales: In.

[55:10] Astrid Van Wieren: In. Dot C-A.

[55:10] Alan Seales: C-A. C-A because we're Canadian.

[55:13] Astrid Van Wieren: Right, right. Maybe theriveryoustepin.com or dot C-A was already taken without the hyphen.

[55:19] Alan Seales: Who knows? I don't know. I didn't set that up. I'm not very technologically facile. That's the word I'm looking for. I'm a Luddite.

[55:27] Astrid Van Wieren: Tactile.

[55:28] Alan Seales: Tactile. I'm not great with the... I'm learning still more about the sock med.

[55:33] Astrid Van Wieren: What do people call it?

[55:34] Alan Seales: Sock med?

[55:35] Astrid Van Wieren: Did I? No, people don't say that.

[55:39] Alan Seales: People call it sock med.

[55:40] Astrid Van Wieren: I don't know. I think I've heard one of the cool kids say that.

[55:42] Alan Seales: Do people say that?

[55:43] Astrid Van Wieren: Colgan? Do people say that? No, he's shaking his head like you're crazy Canadian. You just made that up.

[55:48] Alan Seales: Yeah, sock med. That sounds like where you like a podiatrist.

[55:51] Astrid Van Wieren: It does. Actually, it does.

[55:58] Alan Seales: Of course, this is the Theatre Podcast, which is part of the Broadway Podcast Network. You can visit me and other people on BroadwayPodcastNetwork.com or visit me specifically at TheTheatrePodcast.com. You can find me online at Theatre underscore Podcast on Instagram and Twitter. Please subscribe. And if you haven't already, leave a rating, leave a review. It helps. Share it with a friend. This has been edited by Matthew Hendershot. The music is by Jukebox the Ghost. And then Astrid, thank you for coming on the podcast.

[56:27] Astrid Van Wieren: Thank you. It's been great.

[56:28] Alan Seales: So much fun.

[56:29] Astrid Van Wieren: It's been like therapy, but in a good way.

[56:31] Alan Seales: Yay!

[56:31] Astrid Van Wieren: Yay!