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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit vpm.fm to discover more. There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the wrong one died. I'm the wrong one died. I welcome to the

[0:30] Mike Abrams: Ron cat died the podcast breakdown of the cast. Test fee, I'm your host. Mike Abrams, today we have another amazing guest. He performed as the magical Mr. Southfields on the fifth US national tour. So welcome McCrea Kelly, and thank you for joining

[0:42] Speaker 2: me. Thank you. I am thrilled to be here. I'm excited to

[0:45] Mike Abrams: have you because I you know this tour went on for 10 years, and I think, like, it's always an interesting piece, but you were in the very first group. So we'll get to that, because I have a lot of questions about, like, the introduction of this tour to the US, but let's start with your cat's history. Were you the 1998 obsessed movie? Did you see as a kid, like, what was your introduction?

[1:05] Speaker 2: No, I, I'm too old for that. I I saw, I was in sixth grade, and I had gone on a community theater trip to New York, and we saw a fan of the opera, Les Mis and the last day we saw cats. And I really think that that weekend changed my life. It was the first time that I realized what I wanted to do with my life. I it was very clear to me that I wanted to be on stage and I wanted to live in New York. So that was a really pivotal moment. I saw the other shows, but I didn't, I didn't necessarily see myself in in either of phantom or lemmas, but, but cats I really connected with, and specifically with Mr. Most athletes. I had started taking dance around that time. And so I was really drawn to to that, to that character, that that solo, and it was kind of a dream come true, that it all worked out. Wow. And what age was this? Like? How sixth grade? So I was at like, 1112 Yeah. Okay,

[2:16] Mike Abrams: so sixth grade, okay. So 1112 you're, you're, it's a community theater program. Where are you from originally? And you kind of like, came to New York for this, yeah, Columbia,

[2:25] Speaker 2: South Carolina. So, yeah, I moved to New York, actually when I was 16 to go to ballet school. I went to the School of American Ballet. Started with community theater, but then ballet just kind of took over my life, and that that really was my my passion and and so I went, I moved to New York, and after that, I joined a ballet company, and then found my way back to New York. I

[2:53] Mike Abrams: love it. So you, you know you're going as a theater production, but you're a dancer, and so you've got this, like you see these three classics, and two of them are, you know, not as dance heavy. I think there's still, you know, some dance. But then cats is, like, just pure dance all the time. It's non stop. And you're like, This is my, my future, absolutely, yeah, yeah, I love it. As a sixth grader, you're kind of right on that fringe age of like, we're fully understanding what you saw, and also a lot of it probably still going over your head. It was right here just before the age of puberty, probably where you'd recognize some of the chaos. So did it like, did any of that stuff resonate? Like, what is the sixth grader view of cats? Not

[3:35] Speaker 2: at all like it did not so much of it went over my head. I guess, fortunately, probably I do remember thinking that there was like a sexual energy with Rum Tum Tugger and but all of the stuff in the ball, the stuff with Victoria, all of that, I was just, it was just pure dance for me. That's

[3:58] Mike Abrams: yeah, and I think that's probably the, probably the best way to see it. What did you as a sixth grader comprehend any of the plot? Or was it just, this is really cool, dancing with cats?

[4:08] Speaker 2: No, I did not comprehend any. I don't, not really. I just, you know, it is, you see these little vignettes. And I didn't, yeah, I didn't see how they were all tying together, necessarily, but I was very entertained. And think as a six figure, that's really all you care about.

[4:27] Mike Abrams: Yeah, you said it was last too. So it was probably when you saw these two other very big, heavy production, not heavy, but like big productions, and then you go and see cats, which is also a big production, but a very different production,

[4:39] Speaker 2: exactly, very different. I mean, I was very moved by, I remember being very moved by Les Mis, but I knew I wasn't that kind of singer that that didn't, I didn't see that show and think, oh, I want to do that, yeah. Whereas with Kat, I was like, okay, that's what I want to do.

[4:58] Mike Abrams: So then fast forward. Or you're in New York now as a 16 year old, have you like, when's the next time you actually got exposed to the show? Wasn't the 98 movie? Did you see it again? I

[5:08] Speaker 2: saw it again. I remember we when I was when I was in school, there a friend from Columbia came into town and we went to see the production. I hadn't seen it, probably, since I was in sixth grade, my journey had really shifted, and I was really very focused on getting in a ballet company at that point. So it didn't, it didn't really hit the same way. I still really enjoyed it, but it wasn't like I have to do that, but it was, it was still a part of me, like I was still connected to that show and and specifically that that character, the original misophyllies, was a ballet dancer the in the London production. So the principal dancer from like the Royal Ballet, so that that role was really created on a ballet dancer, which is why, and originally, he didn't, he wasn't, he didn't sing. It wasn't until it moved to Broadway and then the character did sometimes sing that verse. Yeah, it's

[6:09] Mike Abrams: interesting because there's a lot of it where, like there's a lot of changes in cats has been because it seems like there's a different person doing it, and they kind of mold slight tweaks around the performer, and then it either sticks or it goes back and and it goes in. But I kind of love that, you know, it seems like Victoria must the two where, where children will see it and say, That's my future, because especially dance. And then there's a bunch of the other cats where it's like, no one goes and like, I want to be busted for when I watch it, you know, like, there's not that, like, visceral reaction to it, but those two seem to be the two that are the most common.

[6:45] Speaker 2: That's true, yeah, and I think they they're featured in a way that dancers really connect to. They're they're given these solos that that are quite difficult and very virtuosic. And so they stand out, even though neither one of them really says much.

[7:08] Mike Abrams: Yeah, that's true. I mean, well, you know you're saying through, through dance like, it's much more of the artistic interpretation than like, the let's use the lyrics for it, right? Okay, I want to fast forward to you the tour. So, like you have this as a sixth grader. You you now in what 2001 like, did the audition come to you? How did you end up with, like, the, oh, this is actually a possibility that I could become this character that made me realize I wanted to be a professional dancer,

[7:40] Speaker 2: so I had been a member of Atlanta Ballet for two years, and had decided that I wanted to move to New York a dancer career short, and I was really drawn to doing some more commercial, musical theater type things. So I had moved to New York in 2000 and then I had come back to Atlanta to do a performance with Atlanta Ballet, and so I actually missed the audition, which was kind of devastating. And fortunately, they didn't find a master police and a casting director who I had auditioned for previously and for something else, reached out and wondered if I was interested. And I said, Absolutely, but I'm in Atlanta now. And he said, Well, contact me when you get back, and if we still haven't found someone, we'll bring you in. So I reached out and Richard, what Stafford, who was the director, was choreographing a production of My Fair Lady. So they asked me to come in and do that audition. And so I did that audition, and then he asked me to stay and do the turns in second, and then he asked me to sing. And that did not go as well. And I remember him saying something like, that's okay. He doesn't have to sing. And so he actually offered me the role right there. He said that, you know, they would contact me with a contract and the next hour. And yeah, it was. It never happens like that. Never happens that that quickly. Usually there's such a process of callbacks. And so I really just, you know, it was fate. And it was, it was a really great day. I remember getting the call and saying, yes, immediately, I didn't do any negotiating. I was just

[9:31] Speaker 3: Sure, whatever you want, I'll pay you to do it. Yeah. So did you audition for my fairly as

[9:38] Speaker 2: well? I mean, I wasn't, that wasn't really he he was he knew I was there to be seen for cats.

[9:44] Mike Abrams: Okay, I could just imagine you, like, that's a totally different show. Going into, like, do a couple other numbers, and it's like, oh, and by the way, just do a couple do the misophys turns. And

[9:55] Speaker 2: really, that's all he wanted to see. I mean, because the choreography for my fair. Lady was so vastly different from anything that relates to cats. But I think, you know, the misophys role, like, you have to be able to do those turns and so,

[10:12] Mike Abrams: yeah, I mean, it's a critical part. Did you What did you did you sing anything like, what was the song you sang? You've

[10:18] Speaker 2: never heard of it because it's called, how'd you like to love me? Because I really was not, I'm not a strong singer, and so I would pick songs that were so obscure that no one had ever heard them before, yeah, and they couldn't compare it, so they were always like songs no one has ever heard of before as a

[10:39] Mike Abrams: smart strategy. Okay, so now this is, this is the part I want to talk to you about, because I haven't really dove into I've talked a lot of people on the fifth tour, but it went for 10 years, right? And you were the first group. So I know Colin was on the tour. Colin conliff, we talked to him, but he was also on the revival. So we we never really focus on this part of the tour. I'm interested to hear what it was like creating this tour, because you are almost restarting what the America is going to see outside of New York that hasn't been on tour in a while. So how much of that was like, thought about how much of that went into this rehearsal process? Like, what was that, that transition of we're about to bring this back on and let America see it again.

[11:27] Speaker 2: I feel really fortunate that I got to be a part of it, because you're right. It is very special. I mean, it had been running so continuously. People were just being put in. It was rare that an entire group of people were coming together and learning material for the first time. So that was very, very bonding. And really did create this tribe. There was only one person, Shiloh Smith, who was the white cat, who had done the production previously, and she had done it in Germany, but the

[11:56] Mike Abrams: rest of us were German, right? Like in a totally different language. And, yes,

[12:03] Speaker 2: and we were very young. I was 22 and I would say that was about the average age we were. I mean, cats is so physical, that's not that unusual. But we were, we were young, and we were, for most of us, I think it was our first big job. So it was very exciting. We were all totally invested in the process, and we had the luxury of time. We spent four, four or five weeks in New York just rehearsing all together, and then we had six weeks in Atlantic City for previews. And so that was a really nice opportunity to to put the show together and without so much pressure, because you're in Atlantic City and the audience is pretty drunk and really just wants to get back to the gambling table. So it gave us an opportunity to really put the show together.

[13:01] Mike Abrams: I That's so funny. You say that because I like the minute you said Atlan city for sixes, I was like, what a definition of the junkyard. Like, it's a junkyard.

[13:12] Speaker 2: It was crazy. I remember one night, it was just a bizarre experience. But they this woman, at the end of memory, just yelled out, sing it again. Where are we? Yeah,

[13:26] Mike Abrams: so I want to hear a little bit about what that rehearsal process is like. Since you had time, how much of the story and show did you go through, and how much like relationship of the characters did you get to build out because you had that five weeks of rehearsal and then six weeks of previews that you don't necessarily always get on a tour,

[13:46] Speaker 2: right? So we spent, I mean, I remember the first week was just music, and I was and I was sure I was going to be fired because Richard wasn't there yet. No one else had seen me. Kristen bludgeon is this huge figure in the musical theater world. And she, I remember the first day, everyone's like, dividing into their vocal parts, and she asked me what part I was, and I was like, Mr. Mustafa Lee, no, vocally like, Are you a tenor? Are you? I have no idea, but we so we really had a week just to focus on the music. And then Sam came in and we were we learned the ball first, and then we I remember spending time just roaming around the studio, acting like cats. And I remember we went to a pet store as a group and watched cats roam around the pet store, and so we spent time on the just the felonity, but a lot of that, for me, translated as a ballet dancer, because I think there's such a grace to a cat that so many of their movements, I kind of found in the choreography and in, you know. The cat doesn't make a mistake, it falls, but then it recovers so seamlessly, and so so much of the ballet training worked well for me in that way.

[15:11] Mike Abrams: That's fascinating. I love I've heard about the fluidity school so much, and every time I hear it, I kind of laugh. It's like extreme method acting, but for cats, you know, like you're not method acting to, like, getting the character of a person. It's, we're gonna go watch cats at a, you know, a pet shop,

[15:26] Speaker 2: right? And, you know, I remember when we we were doing it, and Sam would bring in, like, different cat toys. And at first it was just so silly. But the longer we did it, and the more time we spent started to really get into it. And you did find movements that you could then incorporate into into the work.

[15:48] Mike Abrams: How long after tour did it take you to kind of break some of those mannerisms, like, Were you still walking around with your paws out after tour? No,

[15:55] Speaker 2: but I I do some facial things today still, I think that I'm like, Oh, my God, that's from,

[16:08] Speaker 2: coming back there. I do think there's, like, some some nose twitches that are still there. I

[16:14] Mike Abrams: love it. So, okay, so I want to hear a little bit more about Atlantic City. I don't get previews that often, and tour like you kind of just go and and then, especially with the tour after they you know, some people say, some people go back you and though this one went for 10 full years, there's the six tours still going now. I think they're on year two since the pandemic. And it's just a continuation. There's like a break, but it's a continuation. What was it like having the opportunity to make adjustments like that, that didn't have to be on the fly.

[16:45] Speaker 2: I feel so lucky because I didn't have to learn it any other way. You know, we really had it was like cats boot camp almost for six weeks. You know, we had all of the choreography and all of that that we learned in New York, but, but there's something about being on that set and in that because the set is so specific, and you find so many ways to use that that set, and because the floor is is so different too, right? The the ability to like slide, and so it was really we, and we did a shortened version in Atlantic City, because they didn't want an intermission at the casino. Didn't want they want them only. They wanted to see a show, but only for a very short amount of

[17:37] Speaker 2: exactly. So we would, I think we did something like 10 shows a week. So we, I remember we would have, like, an early and a late show some nights, and we would go and eat in the cafeteria, like in our makeup, and then go back and do it, do it again.

[17:54] Mike Abrams: That is fascinating, because I just imagine, you know, it's like Vegas and Atlantic City, those places. Nobody probably probably even thought a second glance at you all eating in the cafeteria in cats costumes, they're just like, yeah, that's here we are. Yeah. Did you certain things out?

[18:11] Speaker 2: Yes, I'm trying to. I know that my solo was shorter. I didn't have to. It was, it was nice. Actually, I didn't have to do the turns in second in Atlantic City. So I was able to build up to that. But

[18:26] Mike Abrams: you see, you did all this practice because the Royal Caribbean cruise went down to 90 minutes. Their version did because they same thing. They couldn't. No one was paying for it. People were leaving intermission thinking little memory was the end. And then they were like, Oh, I'm good. And then they leave. So they did a no intermission 90 minutes, but you're prepping to go on tour, to do the full thing, and you're doing 75% of it, 60% of it. Was it a hard transition when you left Atlantic City,

[18:51] Speaker 2: yes, yeah, for me, it was, I don't know if for everyone, but because that solo is so so it is quite long. It's almost seven minutes, and it requires so much endurance, and it's technically so demanding, and the end of it is really the most difficult part. So going from that shortened version, we did pick up rehearsals in Atlantic City so that it wasn't as it wasn't going to be like a total shock to our system, but it was definitely different. It was a different show going to the full version. Yeah, I was,

[19:27] Mike Abrams: I mean, this is gonna be a comparison that will be very interesting for this crowd, but I was having this conversation with the masters. Just happened with golf when we're recording this, and there's the whole controversial tour where they're only playing three days instead of four. And I kind of like, with that live tour we're talking about, is that going to change their endurance or their their practice, or anything? And it's it was this, that's exactly what I was thinking about here, which is, if you're doing a seven minute number, eight minute number when you're going but you're only practicing four or five minutes when you're in Atlantic City, it's almost not the same. So it's got to be like, really. Challenging. It

[20:01] Speaker 2: was, it was, but it gave me a lot of confidence in that first part of the of the solo, and I felt very comfortable. So when it did come time to do the full thing, I had, I had, I had built up enough muscle memory in the first part of the solo that I wasn't having to there wasn't that same kind of anxiety that I think I would have felt going into it and right off the bat doing the like full seven minute version.

[20:31] Mike Abrams: So I want to hear a little bit about your tour, where you went, where was your favorite and least favorite place to go on tour. On this particular

[20:39] Speaker 2: tour, we had a really nice tour. I will say we did like places for like Boston and Chicago and San Francisco, for for extended sit downs from like three or four weeks,

[20:53] Mike Abrams: I was grueling of going, like the day, to a couple days in and going exactly,

[20:58] Speaker 2: but we had, we did have some like one or never a one nighter, but some shorter weeks. I don't want to say any cities that I disliked, but I remember loving San Francisco. I we did Charlotte. Actually, Charlotte was our first city outside of Atlantic City, and that's near my hometown, so I had a lot of friends and

[21:23] Mike Abrams: family come to that. That's where the closest you were to home. So that was Charlotte, I

[21:27] Speaker 2: think. So that was, yeah, so that was really special, because that was our first, you know, other than Atlantic City, kind of the big opening, I Yeah, it was a great opportunity to see the country, places I never probably would have have gone. We also did Canada. I remember we I loved Vancouver. Oh, nice. Yeah. We had a really great setup, and we weren't a bus and truck. We flew most places, but actually 911 happened during our tour. We were in LA when 911 happened, and that definitely changed the way we traveled, because we it was, you know, security measures changed in the airports, and you were a large group traveling one way, and so we were flagged every single time. Yeah, I can imagine a group of cats,

[22:25] Mike Abrams: yeah. Well, they also, like you, they change what you could bring on the plane and stuff. Like, I'm sure if you had all your makeup and all the stuff you were traveling with, like, it that also adjusted, like, overnight, overnight, and I'm sure it was hard with what you would have to carry with you, like you had a bunch of things you're on tour, you're not going home for a while, like, very different experience. Did you perform that night?

[22:49] Speaker 2: I don't think we did, but I don't think we can. I don't think the show was canceled. I think we actually it happened to be a night off. I think they would have canceled the show. Yeah, I remember the first time that we performed, it still felt weird to perform, even if it was a few days after. I remember there was a, I think we sang the Star Spangled Banner to open the show or something. There was some kind of tribute that made us feel better about what we were about to do, yeah, because it just wasn't a time that felt like, yeah,

[23:21] Mike Abrams: it was a it was a weird time because, like, there was also, like the sporting events kind of went on the next night, and they did the same thing, saying that, you know, people spoke and saying that, but it was like, let's get back to what makes America strong, type of thing. And so I think that, like, I would assume or hope that it was very similar, of like, No, this is a cool part of what makes our country unique is being able to go experience this art. Let's continue, able to continue that,

[23:46] Speaker 2: right? And I do think that producers handled it well and and speaking with us about why it was important that we continue and

[23:56] Mike Abrams: super interesting, didn't even think about that. Yeah, definitely. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died. I want to talk in a pivot. So this will be a very hard pivot, uh, hard to pivot from, from that, um, but I want to pivot to talking about, like, the theories of most athletes, because you obviously get to be told a backstory in the rehearsal of your five weeks and then in Atlantic City, figured out. But I'm also curious in a little bit about, like, what did you add? So like, who were the relationships you added or played off of? And then, like, how much did that add to the sixth grader version of what you saw? Because, like, you obviously watched a sixth grader thought, Hey, dance heavy. Now you learn here's what he's all about. How does that tell me a little bit about, like, what your thoughts were? Your thoughts were there? Well,

[24:43] Speaker 2: the sixth grader version, and actually, even the version in my head up until rehearsal started, was that I just did the solo that, like, I have the whole night off, and then I come down and do the solo. Anything else it did not I. Yeah, I was like, because there's a costume change, right? So I didn't even know he was in the rest of the show, so that that was a shift. But I I played him older. I played him. I think some people play him as a kitten. I didn't see him that way. I don't even remember being told, I know you've talked about, like, the three words, and I don't remember being told the three words. I actually just took my character from the song. You know, his manner is vague and aloof. You would think there was nobody Shire, so I really played him that way, and didn't connect with the other cast very much on stage. I really felt like he was a little bit above it. And there was definitely the connection with Tugger and with Victoria, and also I felt there was a connection with Cassandra. But those were the the cats that I really interacted with and really didn't like. I didn't play. I didn't feel like he was a playful, yeah,

[26:15] Mike Abrams: so you lean into that shy part, like we're just gonna I'm gonna dance and be around but I don't really need to be here like I'm very introvert of the tribe,

[26:26] Speaker 2: absolutely. Yeah, I felt like he was and also felt like he was a little bit above it. And, you know, he doesn't speak in the version that I did. He didn't sing, and so he says one word. He's actually there's, he says, he says Old Deuteronomy, like when, when they sent he's the first one to sense that Old Deuteronomy is coming, or the first one to acknowledge it. And then he says, presto at the beginning of the solo. And that's pretty much it. That's all you say the entire time. I mean, he sings with the chorus, but like, solo lines, that's all I had.

[27:01] Mike Abrams: Okay, I kind of love that you're, you know, here in this show, that's like, very dance and song heavy, and they're like, you just focus on the dance and hum in the background. I was like,

[27:16] Mike Abrams: So it's so as you have now, like, you've also listened to the show, and you've heard a lot of different versions, and you've, you know, you're obviously familiar with misophys. Where do you think some of these relationships come from? Because there's a lot of like, he's he's mixed into a lot of the fan fiction, with Tugger and all kinds of stuff. And it seems like you didn't play it that way, but it definitely it's there in some capacity. But Well,

[27:41] Speaker 2: I feel like I may have contributed to some of that, because so the guy that was Stan Stanley, who was playing rom com Tucker, and I actually were dating the entire tour. So I'm sure there was some, you know, chemistry there on stage, and some because we had a relationship, and it was early days of the internet too, because it's like 2001 and to the fan fiction, I remember that was new to us. But yeah, I mean it, it's funny that that that was out there. We didn't, we weren't, we didn't play it that way, certainly.

[28:21] Mike Abrams: So, yeah, that's that's so interesting. So you are a real life tug of police at the time. Did Do you feel like there was maybe some, like, subconscious mannerisms of that you had the offstage chemistry that you may be brought on on stage because you are, like, you're together a decent amount, and like he sings your song, or the line of your song, like, there is, like, I gotta understand why they pull some of that stuff together. Did you feel that you had even an extra layer because you were dating? I'm

[28:47] Speaker 2: sure there was that we weren't, like, necessarily conscious of it. But I know that, like, after the solo, we sit together on the tire while, uh, Isabella sings memory. And, you know, I, I remember. I'm dying at that moment. He doesn't, I don't get to go off stage and get like, a sip of water after that seven minutes, Alan, I have to, like, Go and sit there and listen to, you know, this huge, beautiful song. But I really just want to get off stage. And he was always there to, like, you know, calm me down. Like, breathe it was. So I'm sure there was some of that there that that people could pick up on. And, you know, he sings this, he sang the entire song. And our case. So, there is, there is that relationship that's built into the show.

[29:42] Mike Abrams: I'm curious to hear this. There's been a bomb, belly arena, Tugger marriage. I just episode just released as we're recording this. But they kind of noticed, like there was a moment of like, oh, watching him like Tugger during the show. Was when I was like, wow. Okay, maybe this is the person. It was it like a during rehearsals, during the show? Was it, or was it off stage where you you two realize, like, oh, we should date. Or did you see Tugger and watch him do his number and be like, Wow, I want to date this

[30:11] Speaker 2: guy. Probably some of that, yeah. I mean, yeah, I definitely remember being very impressed with his talent. And, yeah, we were both from the south, and yeah, we started dating very early on in the tour in Atlantic City. We were by, by the end of previews, we were, we were together, so we started dating pretty, pretty quickly. Yeah, I think that. And they're, you know, having somebody sing your song every night and, like, there's that we worked closely together. I don't know that, that, yeah, I don't know which came first, actually, no,

[30:48] Mike Abrams: it's a probably unanswerable question, especially when you're thinking back has been 20 years, you know, trying to think back to that moment? Yeah, 20 years. But it's fun. It's funny, because of how much those two characters are placed together in fan fiction, in the amazing artists that like the cats fan art, it's most of the stuff. And then you hear, it's like, same thing with the bombe, Irina and Tucker, that's another one. And it's like, Oh, they got married and oh, they're dating. Like, I've always wondered, Is it like it's also still you're working together and you're doing something super physical and very close to each other. And when you're on tour, you're literally together at all moments of the day together. So it's like, there's some of that's just how, like, it was probably bound to happen. I'm sure there are. I know there are a lot. There's a couple that people have, like, not wanted to have recorded, and I've heard more that were like, Oh, don't, let's not get that one live. But I know there's a lot of data that happens with him, but It shocks me at how much it's the characters that also have the rumors. And so it is a good question that you're saying is, like, Did you contribute to that rumor and like, you helped bring that forward, or is it just like we cast for personalities that might fit that would date well, like, it's a really unanswerable question that's really kind of interesting to think about. Yeah, absolutely,

[32:05] Speaker 2: yeah. I do think there's, there's something to it, probably both ways, right?

[32:13] Mike Abrams: Was there any soft ways? Gets a lot of, like, interesting fan interactions, because you are a solo number. You are like a very like featured dancer, and it is like a dance heavy part where a lot of people come. Did you have some like, fun or unique, like, post show, Stage Door interactions with fans on tour?

[32:34] Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, the fans were insane amazing. But I mean, like, they would come fully dressed in costumes that sometimes were as good as ours, that was just new to me, and they would give pieces of art and things that they had made, and it was, it was very special and humbling, and that somebody cared that much to, not only, You know, take the time to wait after the show, to to meet you, but also had made this thing ahead of time. I still have them. I would i They're, you know, 20 years later on, they're still objects that are meaningful to me. What's

[33:17] Mike Abrams: your favorite? What's the favorite? Like, what's the thing that you have?

[33:21] Speaker 2: Someone made a mask that was just beautiful. Like, I don't even know how they made it, but, and then I have some pieces of art that were drawn and I framed. And, yeah, it was, it was really, it was special. But also, you know, there was, it was also the beginning of the of blogs and internet. And so there were people that were counting the number of turns I did, and like writing about it, and he only did 27 tonight. And it was, it was bizarre. I remember my dad would if we'd call and say, Do you know somebody said you only did 27 turns? And I'm like, reading, you need to stop reading that, that that's not necessarily helpful, but and stop recording it to me also, yeah,

[34:12] Mike Abrams: it is, like a bizarre internet time, because it was, this is like the AOL era, right? Like, we're still absolutely, yeah, we're at that point where the there is a blog is like the, I don't even wanna say it's a Tumblr version, but it was like people were unfiltered thoughts and like a very weird kind of old looking like it feels so antiquated, thinking about back on it, especially with how social media is completely shifted it. But it was, yeah, you had those super fans, and they had an outlet, and they were a very active bunch on that, like the cats fans. Had multiple sites that were keeping track of who went on and how they did this and what was happening, and it's where a lot of the theories come from.

[34:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, they were, they would come to you. Different cities. They would fly different places. And it was, I mean, it was, it was, it was very humbling. And it also, you know, I put a lot of pressure on my performance and myself in the show, I think in some part because it had had such a strong impact on my life and at a young age, and I realized how it really did, you know, kind of inform some some life decisions and where my life went. So I felt like every time I went on that stage, I felt like I had the ability to maybe reach somebody in that way. And so I felt an enormous amount of pressure as far as the performance that that I gave.

[35:44] Mike Abrams: Yeah, you're reaching the sixth grader version of yourself, like you're you're going back to you were in the audience and saw that moment and realized your career trajectory was going to change because, like, you decided your career at that moment. And so it's kind of cool to be able to be on the stage, on the other side of it, and knowing that in that audience, there's probably a sixth grader, somebody else, who is having that same thought,

[36:05] Speaker 2: absolutely, yeah. And you know, cats, there's no fourth wall because, you know, they're in the junkyard. The audience is actually you're not ignoring them. You're you recognize them, and you're allowing them to stay and so you're able to to look at them and look at them in the eyes and and make those connections with audience members. I think that's also something that really does create these these fans in this relationship, because the performers are actually having a relationship with the audience members, which is not the case in most theater, right? Like the audience is not acknowledged. But in cats, they are.

[36:45] Mike Abrams: You start audience,

[36:47] Speaker 2: absolutely, yeah, with with green eyes, and yeah, and you go out in the audience and the naming of cats, and so you do, you do have a relationship with them,

[36:59] Mike Abrams: yeah, Sony, Sony unique of a show and kind of a cool piece, but you now teach, do you teach any of the cats numbers?

[37:07] Speaker 2: I do so I teach mostly ballet, but okay, if I'm teaching musical theater, I will teach the end of the ball. Usually it's it. I still, it still resonates with me, because the end of the ball is like that. You've been dancing for like, 13 minutes, and then there's this huge swell of music, and you do a very simple gesture, but you really need the audience to applause because, or to applaud because you are so exhausted, yeah, and you need them to give you something back, and you need that energy to get you to the end. And when it works, it is just so beautiful, because you really are doing something so simple. But the light shift and the music, it just brings the audience to to a place where they want to acknowledge and applaud. And so I teach that part a lot.

[38:02] Mike Abrams: I love it without doing the 13 minutes before. It's like, just do the ending, but don't

[38:08] Speaker 2: be worn out by it, right? This is the fun part. Yeah, yeah. And

[38:12] Mike Abrams: then I'm sure you give them a standing ovation every time, so they can get the energy still every time. Okay? I want to do some rapid fire. Okay? And then we can get to our, you know, most important question, if you could go on, obviously, let's ignore your your singing and everything else. But if you could go on for one day, any cat, if you could just do the track, who would you want to perform as? Tugger? 100% Tugger. Yeah, you want to flip, flip the other side of the script and go and just wreak havoc. Yeah,

[38:43] Speaker 2: I think, I think it's, it's a great, it's a great part. And, yeah, I think it could be a lot of fun. Yeah,

[38:50] Mike Abrams: what are? Who are your favorite? And loose favorite cats.

[38:55] Speaker 2: Ignore actors. Okay, this is hard. Okay. I My favorite I love Cassandra. My least favorite part maybe growl, tiger, growl, tiger, yeah. Okay, not Gus Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[39:13] Mike Abrams: His, one of his, one of his characters. Do you think that those answers are influenced by your playing as Mr. Police, or is it just more as, like you McCree is the human like? That's who I wouldn't like. That's

[39:26] Speaker 2: hard to say. Um, I'd probably, it's probably somewhat influenced by

[39:32] Mike Abrams: by the role, yeah, because you did it for so long, you're just like, I yeah, that's how I saw them again. Yeah, yeah. That's true. What's your favorite song from the show? Oh,

[39:43] Speaker 2: Grizabella the glamor cat. Like, there's that one little moment, yeah, yeah, and Demeter and bomb. And our, I remember our Demeter just was amazing. And during that, Jessica Lee patty and. Had everyone had recorders that first week when we were singing, and so I went out and bought a recorder, because they all had them, and they were recording their parts, but I didn't really know what to do with it, so I would just record her singing, because that song, they were all like, practicing their their parts when they got home. And I was like, showing my friends and, like, listen to this girl sing. She's amazing.

[40:26] Mike Abrams: That's so it's I love hearing is the first piece of recorder I thought you were talking about, like, the, like, the instrument. I'm like, that's kind of strange, maybe, like, then I'm like, no wait, this is pre iPhone era recording, recording. Like, yeah, they need that to be able to play back their their part to listen, because they're, you know, there's no YouTube version to go after. There's no quick iPhone recording. Yeah, that's, that's hilarious. I always ask a fun one. I was going to ask you about which cat was going to be the best no man on tour. But now, knowing that you spent so much time in Atlantic City, which cat do you think would thrive in Atlantic City? I have two answers to this. I think there's two.

[41:08] Speaker 2: Well, I think that maybe Jenny Annie dots would would she could have some fun at the slots.

[41:15] Mike Abrams: Think about her, but I do see that,

[41:22] Mike Abrams: that's a good answer. I had not thought about Jenny. All right, so who's yours? Well, I thought for first one, first game of mind immediately, was Buster Jones. He's in the High Roller suite. He's gonna be eating eating his way through town like he's gonna have a blast there. And the other one I thought about, I kind of had the other two I couldn't decide between. But one was Tugger, where you've got just being able to go and kind of be unapologetically yourself, and nobody's gonna care. And then the other is mccaviddy, because Atlantic City has a history of, like, kind of cry me mob, bossy versions. So I feel like he might, he might live there. He might be from Yeah,

[42:01] Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think that actually he might be from there. Yeah, yeah. I think

[42:04] Mike Abrams: that's his that's his base, that's his room, if she's, although this is, you know, a UK based show, but when we, when we make the America version, he's from Atlantic City, yeah, okay, most important question I have argued at length. I don't think Grizzle is the right choice. So I'm hoping you're gonna say Gus, because you just made it very clear that you it's crowd Tiger, not Gus. But are you gonna defend Grizabella, or are you gonna pick somebody else?

[42:30] Speaker 2: No, I think, I think Gus, it's, it's time. Yeah, I've listened to this podcast before, so I know, I know your feelings, but yeah, we just accepted her back. Let's give her a year. I mean, could be a great time for Grizabella back in the tribe. Just send her away. Like, right away. That's

[42:51] Mike Abrams: where I said I So here's one question I have always been curious about, and I know the like currents who are has talked about it. Did you ever talk about this as a cast, like, did you ever think about it, or was it just like, Nope, we're just gonna she's the choice. We're accepted. Yeah, no,

[43:06] Speaker 2: that was never that. Never thought about it. Never thought

[43:10] Mike Abrams: like, your Gus wasn't like, why is it not my turn?

[43:12] Speaker 2: Nope, wow. Yeah,

[43:16] Mike Abrams: I wonder, yeah. Now wondering if I'm actually influencing the show, because I know the current cast talks about it a lot now, I think you might be I love it. So I want to ask a couple other questions, because I'm, I am pro Gus. How do you think Old Deuteronomy makes his decision? You're

[43:32] Speaker 2: right. I mean, like there needs to be a rubric, and the the and the cats need to be aware of of this, how he's making this decision, yeah, I think he just, whose turn is it? Who needs? Who needs, I guess, who needs the opportunity to come back? And in that case, I don't necessarily think Chris Abella, you know, needs it, yeah, needs to leave right now. Gus is he's like, barely hanging on, yeah, you know, I'm with you. I

[44:06] Mike Abrams: think he's got the most non Grizabella votes by a lot. It is still around 5050, of not Gus, but of non Grizabella, Grizabella. So I feel like that's a pretty good mark for to be able to have a show that is very definitively answered, to have one cat being the choice, and to have more than half of the people I talk to say I don't buy it. I'm pretty proud of that.

[44:33] Speaker 2: Yeah. I also like your idea of it changing, I think. But I think it should be random. I think they should no cat should know, like, there's like a light, like a spotlight goes on.

[44:45] Mike Abrams: Ooh, okay, so spotlight version of just where they line up at the end. And it's like, we don't know who it's gonna be today. And it's almost like the I could see it like, what was that show? Press Your Luck. Do you wanna press your luck with the way these. Yeah, the thing goes around the board. I think the light should just be going, and then all sudden, just stops.

[45:04] Speaker 2: I love it. You get a different show every night. Yeah,

[45:08] Mike Abrams: I'm still big on audience participation, because since you are and that, like, you allow the audience into the junkyard, and as you said, they're like, they're part of the whole show, I love the idea of them being able to choose, because I do think you would be, like, you would get some really interesting data off of that too. Like, does one city like this cat more than others? Like, does this did we have a younger crowd and they voted for a younger cat? Like, there's a lot of ways it'd be really fascinating to see. It also would become kind of funny. I think this would be hard as performers, because you all are incredible and putting in some stuff, but like, it puts a little bit of extra, like, I got to give up my A game today, because they're voting at the end, and if I am not my best, maybe I don't get chosen. Yeah,

[45:53] Speaker 2: yeah, I I'm for audience participation. Yeah, most of them have their phones out anyway, exactly? Yeah,

[46:02] Mike Abrams: they're already bootlegging this for you. They got their phone in their hand. Yeah, we it'd be easy technology, and then we could vote. And then, yeah, they're just somebody else hops up on the tires to

[46:13] Speaker 2: go up. I always wanted to ride the tire. Did you never get to no,

[46:18] Mike Abrams: like, even, you know, just messing around in rehearsals. Or is it like, union based so expensive for them to run it that they're not going to do it?

[46:25] Speaker 2: They were definitely not going to, like, let us have rides on that tire. Yeah,

[46:30] Mike Abrams: I asked when I did some work with the with the six tour. I was like, Can I go up? And they're like, Absolutely not. You cannot at all. Think about that

[46:47] Mike Abrams: They were very much a anything on stages is a lot more challenging than anything not on stage. Well, this has been super fun. How can people stay in touch with you? Social media, websites, anything

[47:00] Speaker 2: so you can my Instagram is McCree, okay, MCC, r, e, e, o, K, awesome.

[47:07] Mike Abrams: We'll tag that too. So thank you for for coming on, sharing and sharing your stories and sharing your took off police relationship for the world to add to fuel to that fire. And it's been super fun.

[47:19] Speaker 2: It was awesome. Thank you for having me awesome. And thanks everyone

[47:23] Mike Abrams: else for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died, the podcast, breaking down the cast hatch feed to follow along, you can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else to listen to the podcast. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram and tick tock at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website at the wrong cat died.com.