This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande, Hi, I'm Cynthia ARIBO, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpn.fm to discover more.

[0:27] Mike Abrams: the wrong cat tied the podcast. Break down the cast. Atrophy, I'm your host. Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. He was the magical Mr. Police on the US national tour, six of cats. So welcome. Paul giortano, thank you for joining me.

[0:39] Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me. Hello. Hello. I enjoy misto

[0:43] Mike Abrams: police because it's such a fun character, and there's so many questions for for the magic of misto police and the dance number and all the other stuff that comes with it. So we will get to your tour and your cat and the story and all the craziness. But I always love asking, especially the group that went on tour with you. When what was your introduction to cats? Was it the 98 movie? Was it a touring production? Was it seeing on Broadway? When did when were you first introduced to the

[1:10] Speaker 2: show? Yeah, I was one of those people who had never seen cats. I never I didn't grow up with the VHS like so many of my peers. I feel like I watch that movie all the time. And you love cats, of course, I just, I actually don't think I saw a production of it until tour, which is kind of funny. My intro to this show, and, like, this version was really, like, when I got this video submission to audition, and I was like, All right, let's dive in. Let's go to YouTube and, like, really look up some stuff.

[1:45] Mike Abrams: That's awesome. So this was because this is, like, coming out of COVID, right? Like, this is the tour coming back. So this was a you were doing all these auditions. Like, this was video. This was like, virtual, and pretty much all process virtual, yeah,

[1:56] Speaker 2: everything is, like, started out virtual. And I think cats is actually my first audition after COVID, like, it was, like, the first thing that I was like, All right, I'll submit for this. And here we go. And then it all just kind of snowballed from there, which is kind of crazy when I think about it now, yeah, and hold up for so long. And then I was like, Yeah, this one. Let's do this one,

[2:21] Mike Abrams: yeah, so And for sure, like, it's kind of a wild problem to do and have at that point. Like, had you started to figure out, like, it seems like now the virtual audition, the taping, is just kind of second nature. But was it really new at that point? For

[2:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely very new. And also, like, coming, I definitely came from more of a concert dance background, which, like, you know, dance companies, modern, contemporary. So even, like, the whole musical theater side of things was also kind of new for me. And I was like, Oh, I guess this is how, I guess round one is a tape, and that was like, new. I mean, I'm sure it was new for, like, during the pandemic, but like, just the whole scope of it was new. And I was like, Oh, I gotta, like, film myself, and I gotta learn these things, and I gotta get some studio space and set up the camera. Just a lot of fun, like, learn it. I mean, learning new things is always fun, little bit scary, but, yeah, I think it all worked out in the end.

[3:18] Mike Abrams: So I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, as coming from a dancer, a dancing background, and then going into this whole like, musical theater, and not just musical theater, like, now you're in full costume, you're singing some, right? Like you have a couple that you gotta definitely participate in. You're doing this on tour. I mean, what is that transition like for you, going from pure dance to heavy dance, but, like, also a full musical production, yeah,

[3:47] Speaker 2: for sure. I mean, cats is like a dance dream show. It's like so much dancing and like amazing choreography, and so that is a big blessing. The Singing is like, all right, Paul, we got some work to do, definitely, at first was like a bit scary, but the more you do it, and just kind of be like, All right, you're here for a reason, like, let's do this. And then each day you hope it gets better and better. And just like the confidence with it, I think it's like a huge thing of confidence that only comes with practice. And the more you do it,

[4:21] Mike Abrams: so you go on tour, and this is really this tour, like when you started going, this was really the first time, I think, that cats was going back out after COVID, like you were on the road and bringing this back to the public after it got abruptly paused in March of 2020, so how was the like, early reactions for you with the audience, like, how, how did people start to like, you know, was there some like, fear of being back out in public? Because I remember, when you started your tour, I kind of just started going back to things, and I'm like, Should we be here? Are we here? Yeah, have we made it to that point yet? And it's like, such a unique show. To make that I'm like, was always like, interested about your early audiences?

[5:05] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there was definitely like, I think the two sides of it, like, people were very excited to be able to go to a theater and see a show, but kind of like, what you were saying at the same time, it's like, what's the etiquette? What's our new protocol? Like, should I be sitting right next to somebody, should I, you know, is it okay to take my mask off? Things like that? Like, we just it was still so new and so fresh. We didn't know. And even like, for us as performers, we were kind of like, we have to figure it out as we go, I guess. But early on, I think the overall reaction was just people were excited to see something, see live performance again, and just that magic, you know, rather than looking at a silver screen or looking at their TV again, you know, they wanted that special connection that you can only get from live performance. And I think it just was like a long time coming for a lot of people. So it was like a big exhale. Like, we can

[6:02] Mike Abrams: see a show, yeah, yeah, definitely, I think too, like, when you walk out and it's such a unique show, that there's also the like, fun of that, of, like, Okay, I, you know, I just really enjoyed that experience. It was different. It was almost, it was it being a junkyard, too. It's also kind of like a I was, I always thought, like, that's a little bit of an easy way back into society here, like, you know, it's such a bizarre thing. It's not like you're going to see a concert, like it's it's different. It's very different.

[6:30] Speaker 2: Yeah, that is true. And I will say it was a little upsetting that we couldn't for my version of the tour, like we didn't have the audience interaction, which would have been so fun. But, I mean, I get it. I totally get that safety absolutely comes first. But yeah, still is, like, a totally different world. You come in, you see the junkyard, you're like, What am I getting myself into?

[6:53] Mike Abrams: Yeah, they're starting to, they're starting to bring back green eyes in other countries. So I'm thinking, you know, if you ever get to go on again and you do cats at a you know, another, another part of your career, you might get that, that opportunity.

[7:07] Speaker 2: All right, we'll see. Who's to say exactly

[7:11] Mike Abrams: I want to ask about most athletes. So I always love hearing how your explained your character and the story and the relationships you're supposed to play versus what you had to add yourself. So let's start with in the rehearsal process, what are you told as here's who the magical Mr. Sai is as a cat.

[7:35] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll definitely say, when we started, I feel like so I know you've had, I know you've heard, you know, Christy comes in and she does her whole catch spiel, and she gives us the breakdown and the rundown, but we started rehearsals before she could get there. I think there was also some, like COVID flying, things that were happening for her. So I have to say, at the beginning, I feel like there wasn't too much explanation. It was kind of like, let's you know, play with the script, play with the score, and kind of like, formulate your own opinion of your cat. And then a couple weeks later, Chrissy had come in and kind of broke it down for us. And I feel like, for Mr. Feliz, it was never like, too detailed. It was like, most is this cool cat, and he's like, kind of in the tribe, but kind of hangs out on his own, and then he, like, saves this day, and he's friends with Tucker. It was, like, very up for interpretation for me, which was, like, a lot of fun, because I feel like I had a lot to play with because it wasn't so set in stone. Of like, this is Mr. Police. He only likes these cats, and he only does this. Yeah, I'm like, really trying to go back in the archives. Yeah, I feel like, for misto, it was like, to me, he always felt like he was like, periphery to the tribe. He's definitely a part of the tribe. But like, he kind of, like, comes and goes, I felt, and like, when he pleases and he's, like, chilling, and then when he needs to show off and do something fun or cool, or, like, help the cats out with some magic, he's like, I got you guys, don't worry, you know,

[9:16] Mike Abrams: yeah. So that's I kind of, I'm fascinated by the fact that you got to kind of create your own before you got to hear chrissies. So you all as a group were kind of just like not creating your own interpretation, like there's plenty of history of the show at that point, but you are kind of creating some of these relationships, probably based on who you're early friends with, on the the cast, and who you're spending your time with, and who's your roommate, potentially, and all those things in between. So you like, Did those parts play more of a factor of like, the like, the big one for misophys is always Tugger and misophyllies and like, Are they friends? Are they together? Is there? Like, relationship there? And I know you played it with Zach and like, how much of that was. What you and Zach kind of created or played around with versus was like, Oh, this is supposed to be ambiguous, or this is supposed to be you together, yeah,

[10:09] Speaker 2: I think it's definitely a little bit of both. I mean, you have the material like, you know, during Tugger number, Mysto comes out and kind of shows Tugger off and has a little dance moment with him. So there's definitely like, what's staged and what's there. But then, of course, we also were like, oh, you know, how can we create, kind of our own relationship? Are they together? Are they not together? So we keep it mysterious, which is what I feel like we kind of played with, is the mystery of it all. You know, it doesn't have to be so set in stone. It's like, Ooh, I'm gonna flirt with Tugger. And then some other times it'll be like, he's kind of bothering me. Oh, everything is everything, as I like to say. And then those moments about cats is like, the moments the in between, moments that, like sometimes show to show can change. So there will be connections that maybe you weren't making the night before, or, you know, just kind of like we do as people in our everyday lives, like things happen, or you make eye contact with somebody else one night, and where does the story go from there, which is really fun. And I think, like, one of the beauties of cats as the musical, like, as a show, is that there is some room for interpretation with that.

[11:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah, I think that's I mean completely. And so I want to go back to when you're doing this, even with Chris, like, when Chrissy comes in, then what did she add? Or, like, what was there anything that she said where you had, like, is it total opposite of what you had kind of just created or thought about? Like, is there anything that she was like, Oh, wait, hold on. Or for, I guess when she's saying it to you, you're like, wait, I was thinking it differently. Now I gotta, like, adjust.

[11:55] Speaker 2: I don't think so, to be to be honest, and I could be wrong, but I don't remember, like Chrissy did go through each cat, but I don't remember there being too much detail about me, which I kind of found funny. I remember her going most office has a really great number, and he is the magic cat. And I was like, okay, yes, I do know that. Yeah, I feel like a lot of it was up for my interpretation of it, which I know I keep saying, but like, I'm standing next to Jelly Lorem right here. Or, like, why are we the ones who fall asleep together at the ball, or, you know, things like that, which is always, always fun.

[12:47] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it sounds like Chrissy kind of is like, All right, I've been doing this for 40 years. I'm going to give you the short, a short version today, because I had to come in and eat and just get you, get you off and running. I think the other push I have for you is during that process. Like, what other you know this is run for 40 plus years. How much did you do your own, like Mustafa's research? Of like, maybe this is what Jacob Brent said, or this is what somebody else said, or here's what I saw them do in the 98 movie. Or I saw them do in 2016 how much of that got brought in versus how much of it is a I got to create my own version of this, because that is also the beauty of the show.

[13:24] Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll definitely say, like, on the dance portion. I mean, like, I'm so grateful to have played most of ways. And, like, all the my stuff always before me have been so amazing. And, like, really want to give them their props. Just like, you know, it's like a dancer's dream. So I think, like, dance wise, I would look at the most definitely number and different videos and be like, Wow, that's like, really cool how they're bringing their own kind of flair to it. And, you know, staying true to the character and the choreography. And then, of course, every role you want to make your own and kind of put your footprint on it. So really, just finding that balance of like, okay, how can I honor this and this, like, iconic piece of musical theater history, and then how can I bring me to it, which I felt like I mostly was able to dive into through the dance portion of it, which is really fun, just like, such a dream, such A dream. Yeah,

[14:20] Mike Abrams: yeah. I mean, it's a iconic number and dance part of the show. So it's like, as a dance, I'm sure that getting to do the turns and everything is is a huge thing. I want to go to your tour. When you were on tour, were you did you stop home? Did you get to kind of have, like, a spot where you got to bring in, like, a bunch of friends and family get to see it, and if you did, how did you explain to them what they were going to go see? If they also were a group that didn't grow up with the VHS and knew what they were getting into? Yeah,

[14:52] Speaker 2: we had a stop in New Jersey, which I'm from, Long Island, so that was the closest place. And then also, like, friends, a bunch. People live in the city. And for people that don't know the show or don't know anything, I like to not tell them anything. I would just be like, go in with an open mind. And I would say, just try to enjoy what you see. Like, just enjoy the music, enjoy the dancing, and then from there, like, you know, create whatever journey you want or whatever narrative you want. But I tried to, like, really, not give too much, because I think it's just you don't need you can have the narrative and you can have all of that with the show. But really, for people that didn't know, I was like, just enjoy, enjoy what you're seeing, enjoy live performance, enjoy the dancing and enjoy the amazing music.

[15:43] Mike Abrams: I love it. So there's just like, don't, don't even think about it. Don't worry. Don't try to dig in. Did you get any weird reactions from friends and family of like, I mean, obviously they, I think some people would know it, and then obviously you're like, they're seeing you perform, which is always so cool to get see somebody you know, doing it. But did anybody be like, Alright, hold on. What did I watch?

[16:04] Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, definitely a couple people. They're like, Wow, you're really, like, on your hands and knees, crawling like a cat. And I was like, Well, what do you think, you know, I'm gonna be walking on two legs, definitely a little bit. And I think it really seeing, you know, somebody who's not used to that seeing somebody transform into a cat with, like, our costumes and like the makeup and our wigs. Like, we have such an amazing costume team, makeup department, wig department, and, like, we totally transform. And I think that's really cool, but also a little weird for some people. Yeah, it's

[16:38] Mike Abrams: definitely, I guess, sounds different. Yeah, yeah, it's different. Yeah, you go from, you know, if you're seeing, and I don't even want to say traditional Broadway, because it's like, it's all theaters theater, but if you're going to see, like, Book of Mormon or or, you know, or something that's not the Lion King or wicked, or something where there's like, that heavy adjustment, then you're dressed up in just a costume, and, you know, not full on unitard and makeup and wig and tail and and to your point, like you're becoming a cat, right? So one of my favorite things about hearing from everyone who's been on tour is the chaos I think that comes along with being on tour and being on the road and moving so I want to hear a couple of your fun stories, like, what do you remember some of the funny moments that happen being on tour, either on stage, off stage, that are a podcast appropriate, I guess, you know, like, what are the but there's just some like, crazy stuff I hear that has happened as you tour the United States as cats, you know, like in a very unique show that definitely makes waves when it comes through A town. So I'd love to hear just a couple of your memories from from being on tour.

[17:46] Speaker 2: One of the stories, I think of which is just fun and I think endearing for everybody, which isn't so much with the show. I'll try to give the show a story from the show, but we were on the bus. And I don't remember exactly the situation, but we totally the bus got stuck in, like the mud. We were like, pulling up, I think we were like, right next to a theater, and we had to drive through a field. Maybe, I don't know, something happened where we were not on the road. We were on like, grass, muddy grass, and the bus totally got stuck in the mud. And it was just so funny, because we were so close, and it just became like a whole big ordeal that we were stuck in the mud, and we did not live that one down for a couple weeks, very fast, just like having a bunch of cats on the bus stuck in the mud can't go anywhere, like, what's going on? Do

[18:50] Speaker 2: To be honest, I have no idea. I feel like all the cities have just like,

[18:56] Mike Abrams: together, yeah, it's got to be it's when you're on tour, and especially a tour where you're boxing truck, right? Or you're mostly like or busting truck where you're going, city, city, sometimes two, you know, two places a week, three places a week. At the most extreme times, you're probably unsettled, and thankfully, you're not like a musician where you got to like, thank the city, or like you're doing your number. The junkyard, still the junkyard in every city, but it's got to be a little disorienting.

[19:23] Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, as performers, always just super grateful to be performing, but some of those days are difficult when you're on the bus all day and then you have to go right to the theater and do a show. But just like tapping into this is, like, what I want to do. And seriously, like the whole tour, I was just so grateful to be performing again, so I didn't take it for granted one day. And like to be with such amazing people, and who always kept it light hearted, and we try to keep it fun. And that's the beauty, also, of touring with like a cast, and they become family. So when somebody you know. Needs a little extra love. That day, everyone kind of flocks to that person, and then it just kind of shifts organically, which is so nice.

[20:07] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's a tribe. You're a tribe. You're in all sense of the world. What about some on stage fun? Did you have any crazy, crazy memories from stuff that happened, or, you know, that were expected specifics?

[20:19] Speaker 2: I mean, there was always, like, fun. It was never a dull moment in the junkyard. Some of my favorite moments would just be, and I guess it's mostly only funny to me, because the audience doesn't really know. But like, sometimes the misto jacket would glitch, and it just always created a fun missed off. Always number so, like, what? What do you mean the jacket, the lights are very tech heavy, and sometimes, like, the jack is supposed to light up rainbow at this specific point, and then it would just be, like, one little part would just, like, blink and blue, and it's nobody's fault. Like, whatever it's, technology, things happen, but it would just be kind of funny to me. Yeah, I bet you

[21:07] Mike Abrams: some of the super fans noticed that, because there are some cats fans that, like, know everything to the show.

[21:14] Speaker 2: That jacket is amazing, though, like, whoever designed that, whoever like, it's so freaking cool. And like, my favorites, when it's like, the rainbow light up, I'm like, Oh my gosh. I was like, I'm taking this home, and they'd be like, Mayor, not Paul. It is way too expensive.

[21:33] Mike Abrams: I love a year. Yeah, that's a, it is a. I mean, that number is iconic, like it is there's when you think about the show, there are definitely pieces that are more well known, and most athletes turns are one of those things that it's like, it's people know it's coming, and it's super, super well known, and people are excited for it. I also think it says, because of where it is in the show, it's like this, this moment where you've kind of been through a lot at that point, like, it's towards the end you've been through a whole lot, like, I can't even imagine as a performer, but even as an audience, like, you've watched a lot of different parts of this piece, and it's like, this is going to be my, my kind of like, fun solo little dance piece before we get to the end and memory,

[22:14] Speaker 2: yeah, definitely it's right, right at the end, You've done a full show. I definitely think they have that in mind. Though, with the staging, there's definitely, as some other cast mates would not like me to forget, there's Mr. Has breathable moments, especially in Act One, where he's just kind of off stage, which is nice because then when it comes back to I'll say that the number is deceitfully harder than it looks. I think, like even, like, learning it, watching it. I was like, Oh, cool. Like, great. We got this, Paul, and then you start doing it, you're like, Oh, this is, like, a big cardio moment. You got to be ready, yeah, like when we were in Denver, that eighth show, or like the last show in Denver, I remember my legs feeling so heavy. It wasn't so much like the breathing the oxygen, just like my I mean, I think it's related to the oxygen, but my legs felt so heavy. I was like, There's no way. I was like, There's no way I'm gonna jump around for eight minutes. Like, can't do it, yeah? But something happens. Yeah, it is

[23:22] Mike Abrams: interesting. You say that, because there is that piece of like, when is the like? How do you how do they create your track to allow you that, that moment, knowing you're going to get this, like, eight minute full on cardio workout, two hours, 215 into the show, you know, like, versus the balls kind of in the middle. And so these other parts that are, I think, really dance heavy, are mixed through so they have to find those spots for you. You don't get to be Old Deuteronomy and just like, sit there for a while,

[23:50] Speaker 2: right? I mean, everybody is working very hard on the show. The biggest moment, actually, is, which I always find interesting, is during remark, when you know, everyone first meets Grizabella, everybody's on stage, except for Mr. Police, at least in our staging, I have like, a moment after the tiger playoff, and I get to go off stage and like, chill for two and a half minutes, yeah. And then the other one, actually, during the ball Miss athletes is actually kind of chilling for a lot of it. So he has like, his moments, his big moments in the ball. But then when, like a lot of the he does the big group dancing, but for a lot of it, he's chilling too, in the way, nice, wow. Like, hey, go guys. Woo hoo. I love ya. Everyone crush out the ball. So talented. Everybody, seriously, so talented. It was, like, always a joy and pleasure to watch in the wings, or anytime I could catch my friends doing their thing. It's just like the biggest joy. Yeah.

[24:47] Mike Abrams: Did you one other kind of tour question, I guess, is, what did you like relationships? Did you add or really play into on stage a lot, as with staff please? Like, who were the cat? Thoughts that you gravitated most towards when you were in the show to kind of like, or, or whatever relationships you created with them, of, like, boyfriend, girlfriend, brother, mom, dad, like, how did you interact? Any of those?

[25:13] Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I mean, the Tugger one is such a big one. I never like to say, like, specifically, if we're together or not, I like to, you know, keep it open. But it was definitely playful with target the whole time, of course. And then Chris was my roommate on tour who played skimble shanks. So we definitely had some moments, some stage moments, but some that we added in ourselves, which are always fun, because it's like, Miss Stone skimble. You don't usually think of them together. And then I always felt like pouncable felt kind of like, like a younger, eager Mr. Police to some respect. So that felt fun, too. I don't know about like, a family relationship. I feel like councilors, like, would look at my stockways and be like, Wow, maybe, maybe I'll become a Magician's Apprentice, you know, kind of thing. Yeah, he felt like he had the same kind of energy, which was fun one day,

[26:17] Mike Abrams: your mental Yeah, yeah. We're gonna take a quick break, and then we'll be back for more of the wrong cat died. I wanna do some rapid fire to get to the, you know, the ultimate debate here. So if you could go on stage tomorrow to play any cat, forget. If you could sing it, dance it, male, female, if you could just do one day of any track, which track would you love to do one time.

[26:48] Speaker 2: been, like, fascinated by the twins, but something about tantamount, specifically, I just think would be so fun. And I mean, Alexios like phenomenal. But I just think that would be such a good one show. See how it goes. Yeah, the

[27:07] Mike Abrams: twins are fascinating too, because, like, you get to do all the jump and everything before, like, you get to, like, almost precursor everything. I love

[27:19] Mike Abrams: Who are your favorite and least favorite characters in the show.

[27:24] Speaker 2: In the show, I mean, I love the twins. I think they like add a really interesting kind of mysterious energy to the whole thing. I think I also really love Jenny Anu dots, giving you, giving it all. And Michelle, I mean, I had to work in the show. She was just amazing. And I also love, I, like a lot of the cats, definitely the twins, Jenny, any dance, I mean, Mrs. I love Mr. Who's fun. Cats that I don't as cats as cats. Let's see, yeah,

[28:09] Speaker 2: Oh, no, no. I know I had a good time with everyone I was on tour with. I'm just trying to, I never was like, Oh, I don't like this cat really. Maybe, like, maybe like, Mungo Jerry, it's like, enough. Like, be mischievous, but like, figure it out. You know, I

[28:30] Mike Abrams: like it. I like that. You also are only picking him, like, Rumpel teaser is fine, yeah? Rump

[28:34] Speaker 2: kind of, I don't know, rump, I feel, has a good handle on my the amount. She's like, Yeah, but I'm still, you know, nice and fun, but something about Mongo felt a little mango hold

[28:50] Mike Abrams: favorite song in the show? Ooh,

[28:53] Speaker 2: fun. Okay. I mean, the cavity is so good, definitely, probably either Macavity or, honestly, the opening jealous songs for Jellicle Fauci is so good. I love it. I love it. I love it. I think it's such like, the music is great. I think it's so clever, and I think it's such a fun way to open a show. And it's like, totally boom for the audience. And then it like, keeps going. Which I think is fun too.

[29:25] Mike Abrams: It's a perfect introduction to the show. I actually, my answer has been macavid for a while, and it's changed over the years, but right now, it's still that number still is like, yeah, it's great. Okay, I don't generally talk about the 2019 movie, but if you saw it, especially with the change in Mustafa, is his personality, what were your thoughts on that?

[29:48] Speaker 2: You know, I think I only saw the first half, okay, and I, to be honest, I really don't remember. I'm not even trying to be whatever, but I really, like, don't remember. I remember seeing it a little bit. I can't, I don't really remember, like, watching Mustafa ladies and being like,

[30:07] Mike Abrams: they made him really timid, and that was big. Like everybody like, it's not like that magical, incredible magician. He's just this, like, shy, little, awkward, timid musician. And that wasn't, a huge fan, but I'm always curious, as someone who got to play it and play the stage production version, like, were you as insulted as most fans were of the decision to turn his character that way? So Okay, never mind. Let's go to the most important question,

[30:40] Mike Abrams: have argued at length. I don't think Grizabella should have been the the right angelical choice, even though I am a big fan of the person who played your Grizabella. So I have argued for almost every other cat at this point. But I want to know you, Paul, if you're old dude, I'm reading Who are you making as your Jellicle choice and why? Yeah,

[31:00] Speaker 2: see, this is, what's funny about this. Question is that there's so many, there's so many layers to it, okay? But there's also, like, my whole big thing during the whole run of the show is, like, is this whole tribe just reincarnated cats? Are we just different versions of each other? Or is this like, you know, there's so many, boom, boom, boom, left, right, left, right. What is it? What is it? What is it? I'm gonna say the like my, my one answer, which is, if things made sense or all this is just supposed to be, whatever is Gus. I mean, come on. I know people say Gus all the time, but it just makes sense. Like, Gus is the Jellicle choice, and he's so cute, and he's just so good, and he's ready, like, let him live his life, go to the Heaviside Layer, and then he can come back and act his little heart out. And whatever cat has reincarnated as, you know, the theater cat, boom. He could be star of every show, gigadaga, the other one, maybe just to, like, throw it left field. Like, throw it for a loop. We could send, like, what would it be like if, like, Victoria gets sent to the heavy side layer, you know, because she kind of, yes, she maybe it's also like, how do you look at it? Is it a reward to go to the heavy side layer? Is it punishment? I think people look at it different ways. So it's like, she's accepted Grizabella. And then just when everyone thinks like, Oh, she taps the paw, maybe, oh, Deuteronomy is like, Oh, wow. Because of like, you know you you took the courage, you stepped up. Guess what? You get to go six.

[32:50] Mike Abrams: So you've asked all the questions that I have, one to know that I don't know an answer on. I think the two most important ones you have, you have nailed, which is, what is the criteria? And I kind of always wonder, is it the same every year? And then the question about, like, is it a reward? Is it a punishment? Like, what is it like? Is it how does that factor in? Because depending on how you look at those two things, it could change. Because everyone who's like, a lot of the defense of Grizabella is like, well, it's a redemption story. And I'm like, Well, is there a cat coming back next year too? Like, like, is there just a bunch of exiled cats that are gonna come back every year? Or, how does that work? If this is an annual tradition? No,

[33:33] Speaker 2: I know. And then the other thing on top of it is, do they do you lose consciousness when you come back of your past self, which, like, you think, yes, but like, who knows? Maybe, like, when Grizabella comes back as whatever she knows, she's like, aware she was like, Oh, I was Grizabella past life. How do I either act differently to not have the same fate? You know, so many layers.

[33:58] Mike Abrams: So who do you think, if you like, was last year's choice, like, which kitten The tribe is was reborn is now this year?

[34:09] Speaker 2: I think syllable, okay. I mean, because she's a baby, sure, it's like she was just born, but she, she gives me reincarnated vibes,

[34:19] Mike Abrams: yeah, lot of people think Victoria too. I think part of that is the new movie using her as the like conduit, yeah, the story. And also, I see that your Victoria said that of like I was last year, I'm back, and that's why she's having her like moment

[34:33] Speaker 2: of her, and it kind of makes sense awakening. I feel like Victoria, not just with like the paw touched, but like, I feel like throughout, like Victorian, Grizabella kind of have an interesting thing going on.

[34:46] Mike Abrams: So you're picking Gus. That's what I'm marking down for our tallying at home. I love it. I always it's a non Grizabella answer. So here's my other question about this. Though, did your cast ever discuss. This. Like, did you think about this, or was it just like, nope? Chris Bell is going,

[35:22] Mike Abrams: yeah. I'm slowly trying to change. I'm trying to make all future productions have this as part of rehearsal. Is like they're gonna have a big hold down. We gotta decide,

[35:31] Speaker 2: what does it mean? What's the criteria? Who came back last year?

[35:36] Mike Abrams: That is my goal is to influence

[35:43] Mike Abrams: got to be a book somewhere, like, there's a book that there's clearly a book that they like, give a little bit of the story production. But when this goes on as a licensed production, it's like, it's happening for two weeks or three weeks regionally, so that you don't get the like Chrissy coming in and telling the full story. You generally get somebody who's doing it, and I call that cat's telephone, which is like, you're getting a passed down version of it, and that's why there's so many interpretations. And I don't think, I don't know if this was ever discussed at the, like, initial Broadway and, you know, West End kind of productions, and right, this might have just been totally not thought of. And then now it's like, well, should it be thought of like, this is the whole climax of the show. We gotta, we gotta have some, some thought here into the future of this. That's a good point. Well, I'm, I'm so glad that I got it in your answer, yeah, in your hands, doing the Jellicle Lord's work every day to make this a priority. So this has been super fun. How can people stay in touch with you on social media and keep up with everything

[36:48] Speaker 2: you're doing? Yeah, mostly Instagram. It's just my name with an underscore. So Paul underscore. Gertano, hopefully that's spelled out somewhere in the Yeah, it'll be I'll tag that's mostly I don't know I feel where I put all my stuff and keep up to date with me. Awesome.

[37:09] Mike Abrams: Well, this has been super fun. I appreciate you taking the time to record with me and and choose somebody not named Isabella to keep those numbers moving in the right direction of the competition between Alan. I do have a big tally, and right now, grisabelle is still in the lead, but she's about, she's less than half the votes, and Gus is in second. And so I'm like, I'm I'm trying, I'm trying to get this to where he takes over, and eventually we get a production where she doesn't go to the heavy side layer and we let the audience choose.

[37:44] Speaker 2: You're not my question. I just thought of something, when does Old Deuteronomy go? It's a great question. Maybe that's my answer, because it's just like it has to be soon. But who, if he's the one who's ultimately deciding, you know, there's one day the whole tribe is just like, Wait, hold on a second. Yeah. Maybe he's like, maybe he's immortal. So what happens if you go to the heaven? I mean, when you go there on the ninth life, you're done, they're done.

[38:17] Mike Abrams: So that's, that's the anti Gus argument actually is, is that he doesn't have another one.

[38:22] Speaker 2: There's no one left that could do too. I actually

[38:26] Mike Abrams: think my if I'm doing an old dude, I don't think I'm giving him as a Jellicle choice. I think what ends up happening is monkeys chat finally, like, assassinates him mid year, because he's, like, it's, it's time I'm ready, like I've been waiting and waiting and waiting. I think, I think it happens outside unless, I mean, again, what's, what's his arc, though, is, is it a redemption story? It goes back to that million dollar first question, what's the decision criteria here? That's true, but we'll never know, because we only have one ball to go off of.

[39:04] Mike Abrams: that's why I have 130 plus episodes being able to ask these questions that there are super fans asking. So I'm not the first ever asked these questions. I'm not the only one, right? But I think I'm the only one documenting it currently for for the world to have access to, yeah,

[39:20] Speaker 2: and I think people are grateful for that. Well, I

[39:24] Mike Abrams: will keep your vote as Gus, and I'll give you a second vote as all Deuteronomy. I'll do Yeah. Well, this has been so much fun, so thanks for taking the time to record

[39:32] Speaker 2: me. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day, yeah. And thanks

[39:36] Mike Abrams: everyone else for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died the podcast. Break down the cast. Atrophy to follow along. You can subscribe. Can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify or Alan. Listen to podcasts, follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Tiktok and threads at the wronghead guide, or check our website, theronkid.com,