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[0:00] Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo, and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network, visit vpm.fm to discover more.

[0:13] Speaker 2: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the one good night. I'm the one good night. I welcome

[0:20] Speaker 3: to

[0:30] Speaker 4: the wrong cat died. The podcast breakdown of the cats atrophy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have a special guest. Before the shutdown, he was touring on the cats national tour as Old Deuteronomy. So welcome Adam Richardson, and thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. I am very excited to talk to you, because I feel like there's a lot to ask still about Old Deuteronomy. But before we do that, I always love to start with your cat's history. So I know you've been on tour twice, but before you went on tour, before you started performing it, when was the first time you were exposed to it? When did you see it as you see as a kid? It's funny.

[1:04] Speaker 5: I was actually thinking about it today. I was like, oh, like, I'm sure that's one of gonna be one of the questions, like, what's your cat's history? And I didn't see it as a kid. I think the first time I remember even like, knowing what it was, I was in high school. I went to performing arts high school in Virginia, and we were having a rehearsal. And, like, you know, I mean, I'm not old, but of an age where, like, we still have, like, the rolly, like, TVs, it was, like, the stand, and so it was, yeah, and so it was, like, on that, like, with the VCR underneath, and like, it was just like, playing in a room, because we were, like, supposed to, like, go in and have like, a rehearsal. And I was like, What is this? Like, I don't know what this is. This is so weird. And so I had a very negative, I guess, connotation towards cats, like, all through college and even afterwards, until I built my first like, that's so that's

[1:59] Speaker 4: interesting, because usually when I'm I think we're probably around the same age. I had the same cart, and that was, like, the best day ever substitute teacher. You were gonna just sit and watch a movie. You have to pay attention. But I went to public school, you know, for a lot growing up, and we, like, we just got like, a, like, super old 70s, 80s, like World War Two history documentary every time. But it was just great, because we didn't have to pay attention or actually do any work. But you got at a performing art school, you got the the 1998 movie I was filming. Well, it

[2:30] Speaker 5: was just like on, like, the I remember the room was empty, and it was just like on, like, someone had maybe started it before, and had left the room, and then, like, I went in the room later, and it was just like playing like, which just seems very like, you know, apropos that like, it's just like on, like, it probably started itself. I just remember walking in and like, being like, okay, these are humans as cats. And actually my best friend in high school, she loves like, all in July, Weber, and I think they the Virginia, Virginia musical theater did a production. So she was like, like, a pit singer for that, and so she loved it. And I was like, Girl, I love you, but I don't like this show. Like, I don't get it. It just makes no sense to me. And then, you know, years later, I did a non tech production at Flat Rock Playhouse, yeah,

[3:21] Speaker 4: so, let's, let's cut to that. So you're now in it, you're, you're doing a production. You said this was 2000 I think it's 2013, yeah, 13. Okay, and who were you covering in that, in that show?

[3:34] Speaker 5: So I was Old Deuteronomy, you know, it was, you know, with, you know, not like, you have to, like, you know, do the best you can. So, you know, you have to cut a couple cats here and there. But it was actually a really good production. You know, it was a lot of high level dancers and singing and the audience. I mean, as you know, obviously cats now and forever. It's such an iconic and a little show. And I remember, funny enough, I was backstage during intermission, and my stage manager was like, Hey, Adam, like, if you don't mind, can you please stay in costume after someone wants to meet you. And I was like, what I was like in nowheresville, North Carolina, had like, like, no one that I knew would come. And these two women were so lovely. And they were just like, you know, you're our favorite character. We've seen the show so many times. And we kept chatting. And then like, Well, where are you from? And I said, I'm just from a really small area in Virginia. You probably never heard of. They're like, Oh, well, we're like, from Virginia. And I was like, oh, like, cool thinking, you know, most people are like, from Richmond or Northern Virginia. And they were, where are you from? I said, this really small town called Smithfield, Virginia. They're like, that's where we lived. And it was just like this crazy coincidence. And so, I mean, it's definitely like a show that is brought people into my life that I never would have thought of,

[4:58] Speaker 4: that's, that's a. A cool story. It's definitely a show that everyone seems to have an opinion on, no matter what, whether good, bad, but they everyone has a thought on it, yes, and so I think that's cool. So you as older me in that production, I'm always curious to hear, what were you told about the character? Like? How much did you like? I know you went to Cat school, I think for the most recent tour, but the first time, were you told? What were you told? How much were you giving?

[5:26] Speaker 5: Oh, gosh, I don't even, like, remember. I mean, I feel like I remember maybe the director just said, you know, you're old, you're wise. I don't really remember like, too much detail. It's just like, as far as that, like, you know, like, and then like, I think with like, every cast, everyone has their own version of like, you know, family ties to who's related to who and all that stuff. So I think we kind of did that work. But I don't really remember too much besides just, you know, being a 26 year old old oldest cat and I was, like, 26 at the time.

[6:05] Speaker 4: Yeah, it's got to be kind of a weird role to play at a young age, considering you're supposed to be the the oldest probably, I guess maybe Gus, although that's the tracks you played on most recent tours, you played all the old characters, I guess so. Okay, so you're given that. I do find it interesting. I want to get into the family tree later. Into the family tree later, but tell me about cat school. Like, when you because you went from boosting her to then Gus and Old Deuteronomy and then full time Old Deuteronomy. What was that? You know, you covered a lot. You learned a lot. What were you told in that production, the most recent one? Yeah,

[6:37] Speaker 5: so during the national tour, we started, actually, like, roughly around this time, two years ago. And, yeah, first day we had to get on the ground and crawl around. And really just spent a lot before we learned a note of the score and or learned, like any house of choreography, we just learned how to be felines. And it was a lot of just like, you know, how does your hand touch the ground, you know, there's a noise behind you, what? What part of your body reacts first? I think naturally, as humans, we would probably turn our head first. Versus, like, you know, we were like, you know, maybe our back would, like, hunch up a little bit, and then we would turn our head so, just like all, like the very like, you know, specifics of being a cat, it's just immense. I mean, even though both of, or, like, both tracks that I covered mostly stood, I think Gus did have to crawl a little bit, if I remember correctly, like, I still had to really, just, like, get on the ground with everyone else and just, you know, go through the ranks of cat school.

[7:42] Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that's, I think that's such an interesting it is a unique piece to this. And I, I do think, as a theater outsider, like the concept of it, and most people I talk to who aren't like in the theater world, can't comprehend it. And then you meet the theater people, it's like, yeah, you know, it's part of getting into any role. It's just a more unique version with it being cat. But coming from your background, is opera singing, right? So you like, how does that? How did you kind of go between those two of, like, all of your work in the opera world, and then onto cats, you know, like, it's, it is, it is an opera kind of song. So I could, you know, definitely fits that that style in your voice, but it does seem like such a transition from the two different types of worlds that you kind of live in.

[8:27] Speaker 5: Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, I think I started getting, I mean, again, going to performing arts high school, you know, you're surrounded by just so much like I was surrounded by so many people that have gone on to do so many wonderful things via Broadway TV, film, movies, and so you just kind of, im so like, I think I started to learn about musical theater in high school, or just knowing about it, even though I wasn't in that program. And then in college, I went to Carnegie Mellon, which is like, what gets well known for the theater program. And while I wasn't in the program, you know, still being adjacent, having friends in those programs, going to those productions. And then I moved to New York to go to grad school, and I just honestly, I started going to musical theater auditions as a way to keep up my audition chops in general, because the classical audition period is a little bit more truncated than musical theater. Musical theaters, you know, 365, you know, you can find an audition every day if you want to. And then I just started booking work, just doing things like the cats, regional things, or I was doing a couple of productions at other regional houses, either in the area or in other states. And then I was actually got rather far in the Broadway revival. That happened in 2016 16, I had gotten pretty far in that. And, you know, it didn't work out for me in that. And then just a couple of other things, either be a Broadway national tour, which is like so close, you know, going through all like the auditions and you. Know, unfortunately, by booking it. And then this came along, and actually, I wasn't even an audition, because I just remembered, like, how long I had auditioned for the probably, revival major. Was like, no, they really like you, like, you should go in again. And I was like, Fine, like, whatever. And I did it, and I booked it. And so it's vocally it, you know, an opera, you're saying maybe two, two shows a week, but in musical thinking, you do eight. And so I think having the training that I, that I do have like, I was able to, you know, get through eight shows a week with a little wear and tear on my voice. But then even doing like, especially when I did like the, you know, Buster for drums, Gus, Peter tracks where it was more dance, I guess I put in quotes, heavy than my old Deuteronomy track, you know, just my body, because I'm not used to having to do that much movement. Was, I was just like, oh, like, I'm gonna do like, you know, maybe 16 counts of dance in the whole show. And my body is exhausted. So like, you know, these my colleagues are flipping and turning and twisting. So, you know, it's, it definitely gave me and it gives me an appreciation, has given me more of appreciation. Yeah,

[11:10] Speaker 4: it is. It is such a fascinating in the show, in the sense of like, and again, maybe this is common in theater, but I just don't know enough about the world, but there's such a variety of what's important. And there's tap dance, there's the heavy dance numbers, there's the, you know, the certain types of singing, there's the opera singing, there's, I mean is, there's just such a wide range that it takes a very diverse cast to be able to pull off, like, with a lot of different skill sets, which I always thought was kind of an interesting and cool piece to this. And even as I've read more about, like different productions, sometimes somebody else is singing because they wanted somebody who's a better dancer, but not as good of a singer. And like that, to me, just is, is a wild piece of how fluid this show is because it's been around for so long,

[11:57] Speaker 5: and that, yes, in particular, with this show, have like the musical history, musical theater canon, you know, you have to be able to really do everything. Like the writing vocally is so high for if you're not trained in singing, like I would be terrified if I, like, showed up on the first day and the music director is like, okay, so like, you know, if you're, you know, in this group of, you know, cats singing the soprano line, I would be mortified if I, like, hadn't, if I didn't, like, know anything about music or just like, you know, how like and well enough, my voice work, because it's so the demands are so, so much more than, I think, a lot of, especially of Its time, you know, the early 80s, like, it just really, I think, burst open a lot of just like things where it's like, you know, there's a singing chorus in musical theater, and then there's, like, a dancing chorus. It was like, No, you have to be able to sing, dance and act. And I think also, that's why there are the Boo singers, which was my original, my original job, before I switched over, yeah,

[13:00] Speaker 4: and that was so I was the very first interview I did, was with the boost singer, and I thought that was such a unique thing because I didn't realize it. But then when I heard about it, it made so much sense of, like, how necessary that is, and it just was like, kind of an interesting, fun fact from behind the scenes. So I want to ask a couple other questions about your performances. So the first one is, and you can correct me, because I did not get so I was expecting to see the tour in April in Indiana, which is where I'm from. My parents still my family still live. So that guy was one of the first you know, it was close and got canceled. But when I saw Old Deuteronomy on the revival in intermission, he stayed on stage. Did you get asked to do that in your production? So

[13:48] Speaker 5: when we originally rehearsed it and and the first four months of tour, so we opened in January of 2019, and basically that was in, like the older army staying on stage for the intermission, which is roughly about 20 minutes or so. Yeah, that was in and then just some things had kind of happened where it just wasn't it got taken out. So for me, I got to do it a few times before it was taken out, just like when I would go on, like, if my predecessor had to call out, or, you know, Ted's any personal days, or anything. So I did it a few times, and I was like, Oh, wow. Like, this is intense, because you're just sitting there, and I think I'm assuming, like, as an audience member, you're wondering, like, you know, what is he thinking? What's he doing? Is he going to do anything? And then also, just, like, also an opportunity to get a picture with a human cat. So I think that sounds like another

[14:56] Speaker 4: so I I had such a the first time I saw it, I had. Such a weird kind of like, the thoughts that ran through my head were, I was fascinated by the set when I walked in, and so when intermission came, I actually was most interested in, kind of, looking around at all the details of the set. And then that's when I was like, wow, there's a cap there. You know, I was like, That looks real. And it took me a second to realize that was actually the character, like, it's actually the performer still sitting there. And then I'm like, Wait, why is he doing this? And then it was just like, then people started slowly coming up to take selfies and pictures with them. And I was just like, this is immediately, I kept going, why would you agree to this? Like, why would you do this during your intermission? And so it's kind of interesting to hear, like, your perspective on it. Did you like as a performer? Do you really want those 20 minutes back? Like, what's that like, being part of a show that's like, not part of the show?

[15:54] Speaker 5: me as like a person, as an actor, being in that costume is not the most comfortable. So, like, it would, like, one of the times that I did I was like, it would just be so nice to be off stage, you know, with this costume off. So then I could then just get back in and then come out and sing and do the rest of the show it, you know, it's heavy. The costume is very heavy. And so just like, Oh, I'm just like, sitting here, like, you know, at the beginning of the weekend might be fine, but, you know, we had generally, because we're on a tour, we have five show weekends. So, you know, Friday, like, I have to do this two times tomorrow and two times on Sunday. I'm exhausted. Um, but I think as, like an actor, like, I was just thinking as, like the character of Old Deuteronomy. I mean, I think it's, it is necessary, and I think it works. It has, like, its power of like this old, the oldest, the leader of the tribe, you know, after this big dance number where the cats are just kind of, in a way, shown their true colors, I guess, towards Grizabella, who is just trying to be a part of this group. And then, you know, he then sees her at the very end, who sings, I guess you call it little memory, memory one, and then to watch her just be the two people on stage. And you know, you know, he knows that she doesn't see him, so she thinks she's having this very private moment, and he witnesses that, and then he has to contemplate over that, and then open the beginning of that. So I think it does work from a visual standpoint, but like the actor, the human of me, is like, I just switch off the stage. Yeah,

[17:38] Speaker 4: that's actually I didn't really think about because, again, I've seen the show twice. I've seen the 1998 movie a couple times, but there's no intermission, and then I didn't get to see any other live production. So I've seen two live productions. The first time I was, you know, had no idea what I was watching. The second time, I was just like, hey, let's have a drink before, and let's go see this show again. So a lot of the thought that I've had since that I've now, like, analyzed this way more than any human probably should. I don't. I can't go back to that moment very easily and try to, like, think through what you just said, which is super interesting about how, like, it ties the two acts together really seamlessly. That's That's fascinating. I do. I do want to ask you one other thing about the performance, because you just mentioned too that the costume is super heavy. What is that kind of, quote, unquote kidnap scene like that, that whole part, like, in such a, like, thick and heavy coat that you do that in, um,

[18:32] Speaker 5: for me, it was fine. It was pretty easy. I mean, I do. I did most of, like, the the acting of being, like, taken. So it was just like, the two henchmen would, you know, grab my arms, and then I would do, like, the shaking and all that stuff. And I think also that was me, like, that was my, I mean, I guess I should, like, you know, my colleagues are working so hard. So I did get breaks, like, I'm only in, you know, the opening, and then I go away. But I'm like, putting on makeup, getting ready to then have the reveal. And then, if I didn't have that 20 minutes, I would have had all the ball the 20 minutes, and then basically everything leading up to the kidnap seam. So for me, I was like, Oh, well, this is my chance to, like, now have my break. So I was like, you know, again, being like, this is my time to get off. So like, hurry up, hurry up, hurry up, take me up. Yeah, that

[19:25] Speaker 4: makes, that makes a ton of sense. I want to pivot to the rumor mill. So you talked about the family tree, and you said that you kind of come up with it in your own production. So what did you land on for your production? And I can tell you kind of what the internet thinks, but I would love to hear what you thought Old Deuteronomy is kind of dad, girlfriends, wives, so

[19:47] Speaker 5: I definitely think I'm monk and Tugger father.

[19:50] Speaker 4: Okay, that's consensus online. So I think that seems that seems like everyone believes that, yeah, I think

[19:57] Speaker 5: they have like that, sort of like brother. Uh, like, rivalry, where it's like, you know, problem, I'm assuming maybe monk is, like, slightly older, and so therefore he's probably going to be the next to, like, take over once I decide to just, like, give up the ghost, yeah, and, but at the same time, I think Tiger is, like, obviously, like, cooler. And so they're just that, that given, you know, give and take. Um, I think I probably have had kids with Jenny. I've probably had kids with jelly. I don't I probably have had kids with Grizz. That's kind of a question mark. Probably I've had kids with grades, or if I haven't had any kittens with her, then I've definitely, like, we've had some sort of, like, tattery love affair that maybe went sour. And I'm trying to think, who the other, like, older,

[20:54] Speaker 5: I mean, I guess there's that that just use another cat, like, you know, metaphor, analogy, the scar, like mu faci, sort of like, that's

[21:04] Speaker 4: exactly, so that's exactly how I related it. When I explained the two of them was that they're brothers and one's mad that the other is the leader. Like, it definitely fits. It's the right narrative, yeah,

[21:16] Speaker 5: you know, or, or maybe even if they're not, like, related, it's just obviously some sort of like he could have been, you know, shunned, kicked out by me how his like, family taught it. Maybe he's related to, I don't know. I don't even know who mccavity would be related to. Maybe he was related to Grizz. And maybe he's like, seeking revenge that she got. Maybe that's like, his like, favorite aunt or something, and he's just, like, seeking revenge for her. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't think about Macavity as, like, a part of how he would fit in the tree. Or maybe, or maybe he's related to Gus. Maybe, like, Gus is like, nephew or something.

[21:57] Speaker 4: Gus is a tough one, because it seems like they there's a lot about, like, who he's had kids with, but nothing else about, like, brothers or, you know, sisters to anybody. So that's what there's not a lot about, yeah, for

[22:10] Speaker 5: like, Gus, like, probably, like, he was just so into the theater, like, he really didn't even have kids. Like, you know, he's, you know, gonna be everyone's, like, cool uncle. But like, maybe he doesn't have kittens of his own. So that's why he does hold so close to his days in the theater. Because, you know, he sacrificed having kittens for a career. That's

[22:30] Speaker 4: true. The other reason I think Macavity kind of comes up is the having like powers, like magical powers, which is why there's some question mark about mostopheles. So do you find, do you think most athletes has any relation that that one gets really kind of messy, because a lot of people think that he could be Tugger his brother, which would then potentially make you the father. But then a lot of people think Tugger and him are together, so I'm not sure where to Where's

[23:08] Speaker 5: of, oh yeah, everyone. I mean, it was interesting, just because, like, you know, because we just, we spend so much time together in rehearsals. I think we were for six weeks prior to opening. And, I mean, you have to, I think, one to make because the story is so loose, the stronger that, you know, any cast can come up with some sort of like thing that connects them as family, whatever it is, I think it just, it helps the story read better. I mean, I think in ours, like our original Jenny was, I'm trying to remember, I think she said that, like, Rumpel teaser was her daughter. I think, like they were like, mother daughter or something. So it can, literally, it can go, I think it's just depends on cast to cast. I mean, I think there are some more certain ones, like, I think most people would be like, yes, monk is dude, son, like that. Probably would go from cast to cats. But things like pouncivil, karbaki, all of like the kittens and things, I think, is a little more you have a little more free range with that to, like, create moments on stage where, you know, you're maybe it could be jelly who's maybe more motherly, or it could be Jenny that's more motherly. Or it could be, you know, maybe like Demeter. I think, you know, like, I think Demeter and like bomb, or like sisters or something. So

[24:23] Speaker 4: yeah, there's, there's a couple that seem kind of obvious. And then the more I've talked to cast members, it seems like a lot of it's just okay, we were staged next to each other. So because of that, our interactions might feel that we have some relation here, or there's just a lot of people in the theater community that was like, well, we worked on this show together before we're friends, so even though maybe we're not supposed to be, we're gonna play well off each other anyways. And I think that's kind of where, as I've talked to some of the super fans, it gets really funny to hear about how, like they they have an expectation because they know the show so well. And it's like the. Shouldn't be together. And it's like, Well, I think they're just like each other off stage, you know, like they're

[25:05] Speaker 5: friends, honestly, like the super fans should like, come in at the beginning of any like, cat setting, because, like, they would probably be able to, like, I mean, like, the fans are probably like, I mean, I honestly think like cats was like the Hamilton of the 80s where, like, it was just like, such like this, gangbusters hit. And, you know, it's just has grown over, like, decades and countries, and, you know, so many times, you know, people were like, oh, at stage, you're like, I, you know, brought my daughter 25 years ago, and now she's here with, you know, her three year old or something. And, you know, and then the daughter's like, and so I think this person's related to this person. And I'm just like, wow, like, this is, it's cool. I mean, the fact that, like, you know this story which, and I think that's maybe why people love it so much, because it's the story isn't as finite, I think, as a lot of other things. So you can, you think, you like, maybe super fans feel like they have a say in who's with who and and they have like, they're kind of like writing their own little part of, like, the little positive songs, of like, who's related to who, and on all these like sort of theories. So I don't know. I think it's once, you I know as like a before I was a part of the show, you know, cats is like the butt of so many musical theater jokes and but you know what? Now that I've done it twice, and especially with the tour doing it for a year and a half, you know it's, it really does have a story. If I think the cast does a really good job of, like, bringing it up, that's,

[26:37] Speaker 4: it's such a true piece. When I left the first time, I was like, I get why. It's, it's, it's an easy target. I mean, I've made plenty of jokes just with this podcast. It's an easy target for a lot of things, because it's so loose. There's some, you know, it's so different to like, at the time it was, it was so, so unique at its time. But at the same time, I did walk out and said, as someone who can't sing or dance or do any of these things, like, I was mesmerized by the talent on stage, like, at how, you know, like, I, I'm a big sports fan, and I always love, like, going to a professional game, and it's like, because you get to watch the two, you know, the best people at their craft. And I'm like, That's what, that's what you're watching as well. You're watching these people at the top of their craft doing these performances, and it's so cool to see. And so that was kind of like, when I left, I was like, Yeah, I've got like, 100 jokes about it, and I've got so many things that, like, I needed more alcohol for matinee that I didn't have any but 100% fair. But at the same time, I did walk out impressed and with a couple songs stuck in my head.

[27:41] Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, and I think that's ultimately what it is. I mean, I think this show for, I think even, like at a pub, I'm not like, misquoting, but I remember when Andy Blinken Bueller came at some point, because I think actually, the Hamilton was rehearsing a few floors below us at New 42 and he came up and he was like, cats. Was his dream, like, to be in that show. And he had auditioned, like, a certain amount of times, and unfortunately, it never was cast. But I think for a lot of dancers of that era, and even probably before his like, that was like the show to, like, try to get in. Like, it was like the dancers Olympics as a non dancer myself, I would assume, yeah, that is what it is to be like in like, you know, that show like as, maybe like as, like A Chorus Line was, you know, maybe, you know, 10 or 15 years prior to when cats opened. So, yeah. I mean, I think it just definitely holds a special place. I mean, obviously it does hold a special place for for anyone that's gone through the show. I mean, I think you're forever changed as a performer. If you get a chance to do a production of Cats,

[28:51] Speaker 4: you don't become one of the longest running shows ever without something that sticks. Yeah. So let's do some rapid fire. So if you were not Old Deuteronomy, which cat would you want to play and why I

[29:13] Speaker 5: the Play Doh mccavity track. It's a hard track to do, but you know, you get to do the paw with Victoria in the in the ball, and being also just had the mcavity fight, which is, I mean, I love that music. I think for me, it's just like that music. In particular, the Macavity fight was so awesome because being in the booth, I was with the musicians, like I was with the people that played. And so, like, even though you obviously, like the audience, here's everything, I just like being 10 feet away from, like the drums and the guitar and like everyone just, like blaring, just was really cool. So I just really loved that music. And so I think I would love to dance. To dance that number?

[30:01] Speaker 4: Awesome. Do you think you could so I like asking this question, because I love asking, like, the when you're a singer for the dancers, and there's like, you know, a couple of the Jennys were like, I want to be bomb, because I just would never get casted as that. Like, could you think you could pull off that dance number? Is that in your repertoire? Absolutely

[30:18] Speaker 5: not. No. No. Our play, Doh mccavity, or both of them, because we had to, or any in also any of our covers and swings. You know, they killed it. You know, there's the famous like, over the head press that play about to do, and the ball, and it's like, already, like you this is the end of the act, like you're exhausted, and you still have to do the rest of the number like, you know, and then to do you then do your big number and act too, like it's just no, there's no way I could do it. But it would be nice to just, like, experience it once, like, if someone could, like, give me the ability to do it, just to do it on time. Yeah,

[30:58] Speaker 4: the one out of body experience night where you get to to attempt it. Yeah. What is your favorite and least favorite cat? Not character, not person, or, I guess, character, not person. My

[31:18] Speaker 5: because I'm like, trying to like, I'm thinking of like the people that go with the cat. And I'm trying to because, because we, I think we were down two or three cats from the Broadway. They like, I think cut, they cut carbucity and Elektra. So some of our to make sure that still things still worked, as they did on Broadway, some people, like, had to do, like, basically, kind of like a split track, in a way, like, where they were doing like, half of someone else's track from Broadway to, like, make things work. I think my favorite cat would be Mungo Jerry. I think. And

[32:09] Speaker 6: um, am I least favorite? I mean,

[32:20] Speaker 5: I guess I'm gonna say this one, because then I don't think it would hurt anyone's feelings if anyone of my cast were to listen. Because he does, Peter, that's, that's been my answer, Peter, like, you know, even though I did Peter like, you know, he's there, he has this little moment, and then he goes away. So I would say Peter is my least favorite. I

[32:37] Speaker 4: so Peter bothered me so much when I was researching this, that I did an entire episode devoted to him, just to try to make up stories for him. Because there's nothing written online about Peter. It's just it seems like it was a that names in the poem. You need a body in the opening number, and so we're just gonna call that body Peter, and then you're gonna go away and do your the rest of your track. And that, to me, just seems like so unnecessary for this play that has such thought put into a lot of the other things to just, like, throw this like, and especially just the name too. Like, all these great names, and there's like, and Peter, go out there, do your dance and leave, yeah. And I

[33:17] Speaker 5: think also, like, it gave me as like, a performer. I mean, only did that maybe five times on tour, but, you know, it's, it's a lot, because you have to, you know, get in when everyone else you have to do your makeup, but then they have to come on stage, and then, like, be taking off that makeup, putting on more makeup, and then you have, like, you know, your wig, person, and, you know, waiting for you to, like, you know, put this stuff on for Buster Jones. You're like, wiping makeup off your face, and then you have to do that. And then, you know, do that. All, I guess, was, like, if there was no Peter, like, that track would just be buzzer Jones, and then you could be Gus and, like, Peter just kind of really, like, throws a wrench into the plant, because, like, I'm only in, like, you know, the opening and the naming of cats. And this just seems like a lot to do for, like, a lot of makeup, and, you know, costuming, because I think also, if the underdress had that underdressed for Peter, so it's just a lot. So yeah, Peter is definitely

[34:12] Speaker 4: my least favorite, a lot for no value. So that even adds more to it. I do have a theory for Peter, which is that there's a theory that there's a Grizabella, baby Grizabella, and one of the opening dance numbers, and Peter's in the opening dance number. I think that they it's the ghost of Christmas pass, and that he's St Peter, and he's like, the two of them are only in that number, and then they can't be in anymore, because otherwise that would ruin the fact that she goes and dies at the end. Okay, I like that. That's how much time I've spent thinking about this show, which when you get to that point. Okay, so if you had my I guess, Oh, you already answered favorite song. So favorite song is Macavity. You said, um,

[34:55] Speaker 5: I like that. That music, I would say, probably. I. I don't know. I think my favorite lyric in the show is in macaque in Macavity, the bomb and Demeter duet, just because I love Scotland, and so they say Scotland yards. And so I just, and I think also, like, I like that musical section there. And, you know, being a blue singer, you know, we have to keep ourselves occupied. And so, you know, we would be, you know, wherever, in a track room or with the band, kind of dancing along. And so my other core cohort and I would kind of just, like dance along to that part a lot. So maybe I would say my cavity with the ball, like being, like, really, like, tight, because, I mean, watching my cast every night was, it's amazing. The ball just is, I think, one of the best pieces of like theater, to be completely honest. I mean, like, what they're doing on stage is unreal, and they have to do it eight times a week. Like, that's, it's crazy. Like, even, like, months removed, like, thinking about it, like, is wild.

[36:10] Speaker 4: It is, yeah, and it's, it's kind of, you know, the thing too, is, it's basically an orgy, which is, like, kind of a bizarre thing to think about, but it's such a, like, you said it's a unique piece of theater. I have one more kind of rapid fire. And then I want to ask you, of course, my million dollar question. But the if you had to be quarantined with one of the cats, if you were stuck, stuck at home, which one would you want to hang out with?

[36:52] Speaker 5: I want to have fun, and so I feel like one of the more fun numbers, I guess, if we're going with my version, because I know, like in the original she's a little older, but maybe Jenny, because I feel like, not only would I have a clean house, but like, it would still be fun, like, it would just be, like, a lot of just, like, you know, making sure that, like, My things are tidy, but like, you know, we're having, like, a game Night. Like, it would just be, like a little,

[37:24] Speaker 4: a little party. I think you would, you would sleep all day, and then I like to sleep. And so that

[37:29] Speaker 5: works, like I am one that's like a night owl. And so like, yeah, I could sleep in and then, like, have the rest of my day, and then, you know, do maybe a chore here or there, and then, you know, have fun the rest of the night. So I would say, probably Jenny and I love that number. And, you know, it was always sad, because it was like, Oh, that's such a great number, but it's at the beginning. Yeah, sometimes people forget, like it was such a great number. You know, being when I was a booth singer, I could leave basically, so the spouse were done, and so I would be amongst the people like, as I was leaving theater to go back to, like, my Airbnb or my hotel or whatever. And, you know, I just get to hear what people think, and I'm dressed normal, and people, they're like, oh, he probably was a patron as well. So whenever you hear things like, people like, and I remember someone being like, Oh yeah, I really like that. Jenny, any dots. But I feel like I forgot about her because her number was at the beginning. So I would probably say Jenny would be the one I would want to be pointing I

[38:23] Speaker 4: think, I think you might be the only person that's answered that way. But it's a your sound logic. So I think you're, you've got someone that's gonna be curious a lot of so a couple people said, Tugger. Couple people have said, Mustafa, Tugger. I it was, it was a few. It was a trying to think who, because I've definitely had a variety of answers. And Mustafa please is pretty common. Oh yeah, okay, mister, okay. And then I've, I've had moments where I've thought bus for Jones probably has a really nice house, a well stocked fridge, and he's probably gonna leave me alone exactly

[38:59] Speaker 5: my again. My only fear with butts for Jones is that I would gain more quarantine weight, that I've already be really good. Yeah, I

[39:07] Speaker 4: think, I think that's I've already given up on that front. And so if I'm just gonna embrace that, I feel like I'm gonna eat well. So let's get to my million dollar question I have argued, and this entire podcast has been about right? I think Grizabella was the wrong choice to die at the end of the musical. And you being Old Deuteronomy makes that choice every night. So if you were writing this play over again, if you were deciding that you were given free reign as Old Deuteronomy, would you still pick Grizabella? And if not, who would you choose?

[39:40] Speaker 5: Okay, I'm gonna answer this question, but it's like, double folded. That's okay. That's

[39:46] Speaker 4: fine. Here the logic you gotta, you gotta on the answer

[39:51] Speaker 5: as the character, or, sorry, as the writer, I would still choose Grizabella, and here's why I. Uh, again, I think, and this goes back to having a really strong cast that tells the story. Because I always said, I think I did this in an interview on the road, that a lot of the story, in my opinion, isn't really told in through the numbers. It's told in like the the quieter moments, like you have to look at the relationships between like, if like, a big number is happening, or someone is like having the focus. You have to kind of watch what the other cats are doing to, I think, see how they react to Grizabella. And I think the biggest thing is when in remark the cat, you do see that moment. You also see it before little memory, um, but I think you see the personalities of like, those cats and and to say, like, Yes, I think the the story is told in the quiet moments, not in the sun moments, because, because it is poetry, there's nothing that really is like. This is the story we're telling me about the story. Now, this is the plot, and so, because the way that they treat her, and then that in that moment before moments of happiness, and then even throughout the show, because moments of happiness happens, and then it's just like, we're back to a party, you know, we're back. We're like, moving on to, you know, where, I guess, not really, because then there's Gus, but after Gus, after like, peaks and skimble shanks and all these other numbers, you kind of forget about, like, wait a minute, like, are these cats actually thinking about, like, what old Deron army said at the beginning of Act Two? And so I think Grizabella has deserved her redemption. She has really laid it out on the line. Now, me as a person, I would be like, no Grizabella Gus should be the one to go. He's oldest. He's literally on his last breath. We don't know how many more Jellicle balls he's gonna get to. So me as a person would be like, sorry, girl, like, let's just, like, fold you back in and see how you do for a second. And then, you know, maybe next year, or whenever the next, the next ball is, like, you know, We'll reconsider it. But also, like, something else, like, I also don't think Victoria should be the one to touch her and, like,

[42:16] Speaker 4: interesting. Okay, walk me through that. I think

[42:20] Speaker 5: it should be syllable. She's the one that like. I give the message to like. So after I finish what happens, I touch the twins, and then they touch syllable to saying moonlight, which then is what you if you're not swimming, you've already heard that to him, because you've heard it from Isabel at the end of Act One. And then she's also the one they have their little duet when they do when she sings big memory, like, after she falls, you know, syllables, voice is the one that like, kind of like she Isabella hears it, and it's like, you know, but I can't remember the likes now, like before the big note, and I don't know, I just feel Like, why does Victoria like they've had no moments until that moment when she touches her. So I really feel like syllable should come down and be the one to, like, put her paw in grizzabella's paw. I've felt that I feel very strongly about that. I don't know why I feel so strongly about it, but I feel like at least in our production. And I'm sure it was also in the rival, I don't know if it's was in the original. There's like, a kind of slight moment where Victoria, like, kind of goes to her when she comes in at the end of the ball, but I feel like syllable, at least the syllables that we have were just always just so like the way that they played it. We're just so curious to get to know her and wanting to know her, but like all the elders said no. And again, she is the one that basically, kind of is her voice in her head. I don't know that's just my personal things.

[43:50] Speaker 4: So again, this is why this is a fascinating show, is that like an angle that had never even remotely considered, is something that's like the part that's bothering you most about it, and that's like, again, fascinating that like, that moment is like, because, you know, this is your this is how it should be. And it's that small change that also feels kind of like a big change. I think the reason a lot of people think Victoria does it is because it's her abandoned daughter.

[44:19] Speaker 5: That could be. I mean, that could be, I mean, I think there's obviously, like, there's nothing in, like the story or like in any stages that I've seen that like pertains to that. I mean, I think the one thing about the Grizz Victoria dynamic is that I think probably like, at some point, Grizabella was the Victoria. She probably was like the prima ballerina cat, because that before she single, remember, she does, like her strutting her on stage when she's, you know, taking up space and trying to relive those glory days, which, you know, Victoria's, I don't think she really gets a moment in the ball to breathe. And I guess my rationale is that probably like she was that. Cat prior. And so, like, I can see that, but I just feel like looking at it from a very like, in my opinion, like looking at the facts that like again. Syllabop is one that sings moonlight, and she's also the one that like again sings they have their little duet and big memory. And so I don't know, I just feel like she's the one that like is to get her to, like, stand up and be like, you know, touch me. And so he's just leave me, maybe not literally the one that, but there's a there's that moment that you see, and therefore she should be the one to come down and touch her. And so I'm going to write Angela Weber, and

[45:39] Speaker 4: if He answers you, let me know, because he's ignored all my DMs. So the thing that that's kind of stuck with me so far is that when you talked about the intermission, about seeing Grizabella sing and be on the stage by herself and you're there, I've never kind of made that that could be the argument of like she won in that moment. Like that is the piece. Do you think that there's some merit to that, that like, that's the moment you decided she's probably, she's gonna be the winner.

[46:07] Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, I think these are the things that like, you know, we as like actors have to do. We have to like, if there the text isn't clear, being like, there's not a moment where, like, my character would be, like, now I think she's the one who will be the jetlicker choice, like, then I have to, like, play that action. And so, yeah, I mean, I do think that moment is huge. You know, again, me as a person, I'm like, Old Deuteronomy, why don't you just go over there and talk to her like you're right there. Just be like, hey, Grizabella, let's chat. But I mean, obviously that would not be that would not then advance the story, but as a character, yes, I do think like having that moment of just kind of sitting back and watching her have this very private moment, I think just breaks his heart, because he's like, this is not what I've taught my my tribe to be. This is not who we are, and so therefore, like, what am I going to do about it as the leader, to then get them to realize that, you know, everyone deserves a second chance, and they deserve redemption, and she is one of us. She was one of us even before some of you were even here. And I think again, to go back to your question, I think that's why she has to be the clear person to be chosen.

[47:36] Speaker 4: That is a compelling argument, not enough to give me the rename the podcast, but a very compelling argument.

[47:49] Speaker 4: should be chosen. I mean, so I've always argued that I looked at it purely as a singing competition, like, in America's Got Talent, and in that case, or an X factor, which, because I saw it with Leona Lewis the first time, the that it should be Tugger and most athletes together, and we're gonna pair them together, because to me, those are two of the most entertaining numbers that, like I thought, combine those two show stoppers kind of thing. That was always been my argument. That's kind of how I kind of how I kind of base it around. I think the most clear argument outside of Grizabella is redemption story is Gus. Gus story kind of fits a lot of He's the oldest he's lived the life. But I think, like, those are, to me, my kind of like fun Tugger. And most Gus or Isabella, I think are the three that you could, like, realistically make. There's been some arguments for jelly and Jenny, just kind of, anybody that's on the older side of the cats, someone's kind of always thought maybe, but at the same time, I think everyone interprets the show the way, the way it was written. So there's some version of, like, Okay, this would be the one that makes the most sense. Otherwise, I'm not even in the running.

[49:06] Speaker 5: It's interesting, because even older, he's like, not even on stage for a lot of their like, presentations. Like, you know, he it doesn't come on until pretty much the end of Act One, and then, so he only really sees he sees the ball, then he sees Gus, and he sees skimble, and then he's gone, you know, from a cavity, and then he basically misses most of most awfully his big number, until, you know, obviously he comes back. So it's like, how are you making this choice when, when you're missing on stage, and when I would play Gus, in my mind, I would kind of like, you know, like when I would walk to get into the receiving line, I would like say to the person who's playing, like, it should have been me,

[49:53] Speaker 4: let them know. Yeah. So most important question, how do we find you on social media? How do we get in touch? How do we stay in touch

[50:01] Speaker 5: Instagram at a time like Adam, but like, spelled like the scientific way, A, T, O, M, and then rich, R, I, C, H, underscore, 12, amazing.

[50:13] Speaker 4: And I'll make sure to link that in the description. So if you don't want to find it, you can go link it that way. But thank you so much for for being an amazing guest today and coming on and telling me a ton about, I mean, enlightened me on some things I hadn't thought about at all, and then also just being able to kind of tell a little bit about your experience with the show. I this

[50:37] Speaker 5: was such a pleasure. I was really looking forward to it. This is my first podcast, and, yeah, I really enjoyed it.

[50:51] Speaker 4: and thank you for listening to this episode with Adam Richardson on the rock had died the podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. To follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts, follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website, the wrong cat died.com. You.