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[0:13] Speaker 1: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. I'm the one good night. I'm the one good night. I welcome

[0:20] Speaker 2: to

[0:30] Speaker 3: the Ron cat died, the podcast breakdown of the catastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. I've covered a lot of the 2016 revival and the most recent tour, but we've not done a lot about the history and past of cats. So I'm excited to go back to the 1986 87 and 88 national tour. And so she was Demeter on what was the third national US tour. So welcome Deborah Genevieve Athens, and thank you for joining me. Thank

[0:59] Speaker 4: you so much for having me, Mike, this is going to be fun. I

[1:03] Speaker 3: am really excited, because my whole history started with seeing 2016 seeing it a second time, and then seeing the 1998 movie. But what I always find fascinating is my first question is, almost always tell me about like, did you watch the movie growing up, or did you see it? But your experiences was before the movie? Yes. So, take me back to the 80s. It's been on Broadway for a little bit. Like, what was the what was known about cats when your tour was brought up? Like, this is the first time it went to major cities outside of New York, right?

[1:35] Speaker 4: Yes, it was. So at the time, I think cats opened on Broadway in 82 so I arrived in New York a few years after cats just opened on Broadway. It was still the biggest hit in New York, and you couldn't get a ticket to it. So coming to New York as a young dancer, that was the Holy Grail of Broadway shows. Everybody wanted to be in cats and and so I went to numerous replacement calls, cattle calls. I went to auditions for the national tours as they were mounting it. So back in the 80s, there were actually four top rated companies of cats in the US. There was a Broadway company, there was a sit down la company. Then they mounted another national tour that started in Boston. And ours was the third national tour, and we were the very first tour that traveled to cities across America. So we did one week stints, two weeks stints a month, so we were constantly traveling. It was the first time that audiences actually had the privilege and opportunity of seeing cats. So it was an tremendous experience. You know, think about it like we were the Hamilton of its time. It was a big, big deal. And, you know, it's funny, my niece now tells me, Oh, and you were, you were in cats back when it was cool, right? So even now, I'm no longer in the business, and when people find out I wasn't cats, they asked me if I was in the revival, and I'm like, no, no, I wasn't the cats back in the 1900s kids, it was brand new and fresh. Yeah,

[3:11] Speaker 3: I want you to tell me, tell me more about, like, when you got to New York, it was the show, like it was, because that's, that's what's kind of fascinating to me, is, is there was, now it's 40 years worth of running, like people have an opinion, but back then, it was still new and fresh. And like you said, kind of Hamilton of its time, yes. So you wanted to be like, it was the best role you could get for a dancer. It

[3:35] Speaker 4: was the show to be in. I mean, if you had cats on your resume, it just brought you such a level of credibility, it spoke so much about your technique and talent. And you know, everybody wanted to be in that show. And I would go to these huge cattle calls in New York, there were, like 1000 girls going to a theater to audition. And it was a daunting experience, but it was also very, very exhilarating. And I remember, I had gone to dozens and dozens of auditions, but in the early days, I remember Jillian Lynn was actually at the table. She was, she wasn't teaching the choreography, but she was at the table as part of the audition process. And you know, when you go to an audition, they constantly cut you, and they cut you, cut you down. I mean, not in terms of, they cut you out of the process, and you leave, and it was like, you know, an all day event. And I remember being one of the last groups of girls doing the combination. And Jillian Lynn said to us that she was looking for dancers who were androgynous. She wanted people that could look like animals, and she was specifically looking for boys that could dance like girls, and girls that could dance like boys. And I thought I got this because my body is quite hydrogenous, and I was very I was a very athletic dancer, so I think I knew in my gut that I eventually I was going to be in cats. I didn't get the show that time. But. Fast forward to, I think, 1986 when I got the call from Andy zerman, God rest his soul, that they wanted to cast me as Demeter, and they were launching a brand new company. And at the time, I was actually on tour with another Andrew Lloyd Webber musical. I was doing a veto and I was in the bus and truck tour. We were traveling around Canada, and that's the first time I actually got to see cats. We were in Toronto. They had a cast there, and our day off, we went to go see the show. And it blew my mind. I had never seen anything like this, seeing the choreography that was just so fluid and interwoven throughout the entire show. Because most musical comedies, you see a show, there's a scene, and then they dance, and then they sing, and then there's speaking. This was just part of the entire experience. And I thought, my God, look at these people. And I just knew I had to get in that show somehow. And luckily, I got a call, and I was up in Canada, and they said, We want to cast you as Demeter. And I was shocked, and I was confused because I hadn't auditioned for that company, but I think they had me on file, luckily, and they gave me a call, and, you know, I I left Evita to go and rehearse for cats in New York a few weeks later.

[6:13] Speaker 3: So I find that super interesting that you say that when you went to see the show you you like, were mesmerized by the dancing and everything else, because that is as it it's being a dancer that's like, you kind of notice the the craft and versus, for me, is not a dancer, not a singer, notice the story. And so when you watched it, I mean, how much did you know about the story? Because now, like, again, people kind of have that opinion when they go see it. But there wasn't that much reference. Not the internet, there's not all the stuff that you can kind of go back to. There's no social media to have all these hot takes on. There's no podcast, like when you saw it that first time. Did you really know a lot about what what the show was about? Besides that, it was this kind of masterpiece of dancing. I

[7:00] Speaker 4: had no idea, right? Like you said, there was no internet. We didn't have cell phones. I did not even read TS Eliot's Book of Practical cast, right? That's what the show was made. I didn't read the poem. So I went there with a blank slate. All I knew was it was the big, hot show, and I had to be in it. I just remember seeing posters in the subways in New York City of the cast, and I thought, that's going to be me someday. So when I saw, like most audience members, we went because it was the hot ticket. And I think from the beginning, just hearing the Jellicle, the orchestra, you know, it just kind of mesmerized, you know, brought you into this other world. And then you start seeing these actors dressed as cats, and you're like, What is going on here? Right? A lot of the lyrics are very, you know, almost nonsensical, and lots and lots of words. Honestly, I couldn't follow the storyline. I got a sense that something was happening and all these cats were nominating each other to go to something called the heavy side layer, right? And then you see these different scenes. And you know what? It's just so masterfully done. You just went with it, right? It was just, we just take me away to another world, the world of cats. This is what cats do in a junkyard. And it was pure fantasy. It was it. I was just hypnotized

[8:23] Speaker 3: by it. Yeah, you do have to kind of almost suspend your belief in realism for a little while, while you see it. But so So now take me to New York, and you now have to kind of make sense of a character that, actually, I mean, to me, has a ton of depth, if you really kind of bring into the backstory, or at least my interpretation of the backstory of Demeter. What were you told about Demeter, about how to play that character? Were you given a storyline per se, or were you just kind of told about certain emotions or certain things to kind of play?

[8:55] Speaker 4: No, we were, each of us were told our cat backstory and and our relationships to each other. So you're right. Demeter has a lot of depth to her. She's a cat that had been tormented, and she has this dysfunctional relationship with the cavity. As you know, she's been abducted by it. She was taken away from the tribe. She somehow escaped. She's back now, and she's under the protective wing of Bob ballerina, she still feels like an outsider in this in this tribe. So that's why, when you see the movements of this character, she's very jittery, she's very anxious. She's still not, you know, confident, she's very scared. And so that's why, in the second act, when McCabe comes back, that's the big dance number where I get it, he's she's being abducted, right? And and then she still, even though she's frightened of him, she still can't get over him. There's something very alluring about this bad boy, right? And hence the song with cavity. But she's still scared of him, but there's a lot of emotion with Demeter. I also think in the first act, she sings grizzly. Bill of the glamor cat. It's the first time you see Grizabella come on stage, and Demeter is the first one that reflects upon this character. And it's because I always felt that Demeter saw a lot of herself in the potential of becoming like Roosevelt, that as she's kept on this path of being frightened and having that horrible, dysfunctional experience with, with Macavity, she could end up like a Grizabella. So that's why she's, you know, she she takes notice of her, she reflects on her life. And, you know, thankfully, bomb comes and tries to snap her out of this like mode of just, you know, listen, it's grizzabel, the glamor cat. And just just focus on yourself, demeanor. Don't have to get so emotional. I think Demeter is the most emotional character besides Grizabella in the show. Wow, tell me why I was the cast. I'm a very high woman, right?

[10:55] Speaker 3: And what else were you told? I mean, I've been fascinated by the storylines, because I feel like I get a slightly different answer every person I talked to about, like, what the backstory was for their character. So I know it's been a few years, but like, what do who else is the relationships that you were told? What else were you told? Beyond like, the macavid, obviously there's Macavity, the abduction and potentially abusive relationship and all that piece. But what other dotted lines to other characters, were you given?

[11:25] Speaker 4: Yes? So obviously, bomb ballerina, her sister cat, she's her protector. I also see you as kind of a friend in me, in a way. You know, even though bomb is there for her, she bomb is still taunting her, in a way. So that in itself, is also a kind of a dysfunctional girlfriend relationship. But the other character she has a connection with is Alonzo. That is her protector. This is the male cat and and I think this is the character she I could see her having a relationship with. And if she she continues in the past, she can get, you know, get her life back on track. But Alan, so was another close character. He's the one that actually saves her in that Macavity abduction.

[12:03] Speaker 3: Do you think Grizabella is demeters, Mom?

[12:09] Speaker 4: Oh, my goodness, no. No, I see. I can see how people could, could envision that, but I see that Demeter sees herself, a lot of herself in Grizabella, in the fact that Grizabella talks about how she was beautiful once, right? Demeter, I think, is the most beautiful cat, and she's the most empathetic cat, and she's had these horrible experiences in her life. So I see that she relates a lot to Grizabella, but I don't think that's her mom.

[12:38] Speaker 3: Okay, there's a little bit of a room. There's a rumor mill for almost every cat being related to every cat at this point. Wow. And that's one that because, I think, because of the song, singing, it, because Macavity potentially being, you know, in the relationship. And there's just a lot that you could kind of connect there. But I don't know there's, there's a pretty much every older cat and every kitten and everyone in between. There's some, like, somebody thinks that they're related in some capacity. Yeah,

[13:07] Speaker 4: well, you know, cats are out there breeding a lot in the junkyards, exactly. But that would get all the demeters together to talk about this. I never thought about it.

[13:17] Speaker 3: It's great, yeah, it's, I mean, I've talked to a few and no one's really been, like, I never played it that way, so I don't feel like that's necessarily the angle, but I've also been mostly fascinated by the what you were actually told, because there is clearly a one or two the Trevor Nunn and, like, there's a couple people that involved that, like, this was their vision. They have some thought. But then there's a lot that's just super open ended, and then there's a lot that it sounds like it's based on staging. So it depends on where the production is, how they're staging. It's like, well, those cats might feel like they might be brother sister, just because they happen to dance together, be stage over together a lot, which I again, also find fascinating that like, I can't go see your production. There's not like, there's a way for me to be like, Oh, how did you, did your production play it? Because there's just not the archives, at least easily for me to go find. Yeah,

[14:05] Speaker 4: you're right. And you know what's true? There were, there were a lot of relationships within the characters, and you do see it in the staging and in the choreography, right? So, like, they're always together, and they're fawning over, you know, Rum Tum Tugger. But then you have the older like you I always envisioned demeanor and bomb to be around like, you know, late 20s, he's still in there, in their sexual prime, and they're gorgeous, and you know that they they're always together. Then you have the the Jenny Annie dots. And let's see, I try to memorize all these names again before this show. I but, you know, there are clusters of cats and and, you know, we weren't told the backstory individually and as a cast, because we had to understand each other's characters as well, right? So, and a lot of this is a subtext. It's not in the it's not very obvious in this script, but it was our backstory that gave us motivation to do certain behaviors during scenes.

[15:11] Speaker 3: So talk me through your tour. What was the reaction like, I know the use like you've said, the Broadway world, this was the pinnacle. What was the reaction when you went into different states and different cities that, again, has no idea what they're seeing. Maybe they've gotten the fort like, been fortunate to go to New York and see it. But I can imagine where I'm from, an Indiana where there's going to be like, 90% that theater, if not 99% of theater, is probably never going to have seen it in the 80s. What was the reaction like from the crowd? Like, what did people think? Did you like? What is it like? It is compared to today, where there's, like, definitely an entire junkyard of super fans, and then everyone else mesmerized is, were you getting that reaction when you went from city to

[15:53] Speaker 4: city? Absolutely. I mean, I think people, you know, like you said back then, they didn't have, you know, iTunes, they couldn't download the score, right? It was the first time for everyone seeing this, but they knew it was a happening, and they had to be there. We sold out to, we were sold out on the entire tour, right? We would go to the, you know, we would show up at the theater before the show, and we'd see, like, lines around the theater, people still trying to buy tickets to this the audiences were mesmerized. I think oftentimes they were maybe confused as what was going on. But what was fun about the show was that, you know, as a cat, there are scenes where you crawl to the lip of the stage and you're staring out in the audience, and you would fixate on somebody, and people were kind of freaked out by that, right? Yeah, I mean, you're scared. And then also, at the beginning of the show, during green eyes, everyone's looking straight forward, listening to the orchestra, and suddenly cats are running through the audience, flashing these green eyes in their face. And people would scream and jump out of their seats and terrified, going on. And so I think that set up the entire evening is like, you know, there was going to be something new, something innovative, they were going to be exposed to. I think when they saw the big, grand Jellicle Ball, people were just like, stunned. You see them just like, back in their chair looking at this, thinking, When are they going to stop dancing? Right? And after the very end, just the roar of applause. I mean, I think people love the show. They were always amazed. And then in between shows, you know, we played cities all across America. There were big cities like Boston and LA and Chicago, but we played small towns also, like we went to New Orleans and Shreveport and Indiana, you know. And then in between shows, we would go to the local restaurant and see the audience at the same restaurant, they would come to our table and be like, Oh my god, that was the most amazing thing, right? Also on our show, what was so unique is that it was the first time we played outdoor venues. So we play these huge theaters like the muni in St Louis and Starlight in Kansas City, and they're like the largest outdoor theaters in America. So as you know, cats is a show that takes place at night, and there we were actually playing these scenes on a summer's night under the stars. It was just magical. And

[18:23] Speaker 3: how so that another thing that I've been a little fascinated by set design, just in general. I know that there's an inflatable set that the most recent tour was using the outdoor when Jonathan and even mentioned that is fascinating to me, because how, like, how does crisp l go to the heavy set layer outside? Like, how did they rig that up? Like, I just there's so many moving parts to these things, like, how you could make this work in an outdoor venue.

[18:50] Speaker 4: And, you know, what's amazing is how they set up these shows. You know, when we traveled on this on a weekly schedule, they had, you know, as soon as the curtain came down, these guys, disassembled the show, put it in the truck, and then shipped it out to the next city. And it was a massive set, as you know, right huge venues like the muni and Kansas City, the stage was like the size of two football fields. We had to even also restage our dance numbers to make sure we filled the stage. But I think when we did those shows, they actually had two sets to kind of fill up the space. And as far as a heavy side layer, we still had the huge tire that was built on hydraulics that still lifted up, so that was still there. And I honestly, I can't remember if they had the they must have, they still must have had, like rigs above where Roosevelt walked up to the heavy side. You know, honestly, almost 40 years ago, I can't remember that detail, but I do remember having, like to do a lot of running around the stage to fill the space. It was exhausting.

[19:55] Speaker 3: Yeah, again, just the level of, I mean, with it being 40 years. And the level of like, how many different variations of this, and what you see in the nuances and does give the show a lot of kind of craziness. Did you when you were on tour? Did you ever have any, I don't say like, haters, but was there any like, any, anybody who did not like, didn't enjoy, didn't get it like, because there's a lot of people know that hate the show for what, for some reason or other, but I feel like at that point, did you feel any negative, not negative press, per se, because it's like, like you said the Hamilton, but was there any like, anything on tour? We were just like, wow, someone did not get it. Oh, well, you

[20:35] Speaker 4: know, you read the reviews, and sometimes they would say, you know, they would talk about the storyline not making sense. And, you know, but it had nothing to do with our performance, right? It was just they just absolutely right. Many times I would feel haters like when I would crawl to the clip of the stage and stare at somebody, I would realize I'm staring at someone's boyfriend and the girl that could be really mad so things like that. But honestly, I don't, I don't think we got haters. There was no social media platform where people could post negative comments. We felt nothing but love and support on that tour.

[21:08] Speaker 3: Yeah, so I love that. So because of how the sexual nature Macavity song is when you're doing that and then staring down some boyfriend like the girlfriend's getting mad at you, yes,

[21:17] Speaker 4: I remember even on Valentine's performance as well. Yesterday was Valentine's, but you know, going, you go the show opens, you see all these, you know, people on dates, and all the girls wearing pink and red. And I'm thinking, here I am in my little orange leotard, sweating to death looking at me, all right, that's,

[21:37] Speaker 3: that's really funny. Um, so the criticism that I that I've kind of made, as you know it, is parody, but is that this plot doesn't make sense. So how would you if you were today having been in the show, and let's pretend, hopefully you know that, let's pretend it's back on tour. It's back on Broadway, once everything kind of gets back to normal, how would you tell someone who's never seen it? Here's what to go expect. And I want to, I want to say more of like the plot line, because the singing, the dancing, the set, everything is like at that point. I think everyone knows how amazing that is, and how incredibly athletic of a feat it is, and how clever and creative it is. But what would you tell somebody of the story? How would you explain it to him?

[22:20] Speaker 4: Well, I will first say, you know how cats have nine lives. This explains it. So this is the one night where Old Deuteronomy, who is the this the god like character, he comes in. He's like, okay, tonight's a night. I'm going to pick someone to go on to their next cat life, and you all have to convince me who is most deserving of this. So now you're going to see these cats telling their own speaking on their own behalf as to why they should become, you know, have the chance to start a new life, or someone may be speaking, you know, on someone else's behalf, like like jelly Laura will talk about us, so just sit back listen to the different stories and different perspectives about about this. And you'll also see different characteristics of cats and why they do certain things. And you know, just just enjoy and see how cats live their different lives, just like people, right? Have great rock and roll lives. Some people just have a bad string of bad luck, and they just need to have another shot at life. And this is what the show is about, getting another shot at life.

[23:31] Speaker 3: So I think that that's, I like that interpretation, because that's kind of the core of what I think most people have said. There's a lot of like, very clever and creative versions of the plot as well, but at that sense, that's where I also saw and I and I thought, how do you defend gersabel being picked if that's the case? That's kind of the argument I've been making, which is, I did think this is a let's everyone make their case, and then Old Deuteronomy is going to pick the best case. And I didn't think Roosevelt made the best case. You didn't. I didn't. One person's very uneducated, Broadway opinion was that grisabelle did not make the best case.

[24:16] Speaker 4: I you know, I can't say I agree with you, Mike. I mean, when I when I see this show, there are some cats that sure they're deservative Going to the heavy side layer. Like, I think Gus had the most charming story, and I think now, obviously, he's a thespian, so we all loved him. I think Demeter probably next round. She's probably up for the heavy side layer. But, you know, you look at Grizabella and her backstory and what she's gone through, and she's just trying so hard, and the fact that these cats have just ostracized her, I mean, what else she got? She's got to start all over again. She needs a clean slate, right? So thank God Victoria was, you know, she's the young kid, and she still is. She's not. She's not all tainted by life, and doesn't have, you know, the attitudes that maybe some of the older cats have that just shunned her. You know, Victoria was innocent enough to also see that this is a cat that deserves it, right? She's She is at the core. Grizabella still has a heart of gold. She's had a rough patch in life, and she needs to just have another shot.

[25:23] Speaker 3: Yeah, I can, at this point. I can make an argument for almost anybody, and I get Grizzle argument, but I still struggle with it. I definitely do.

[25:37] Speaker 3: well, so I do think, like the at its core, I always made, you know, my parody and my joke has always been that it's based on the best performance and memory is is very compelling and incredible. But I was, as a viewer, more mesmerized by Tugger and stoffelies and a couple of these other like, very, very show stopping experiences. Yeah, yeah. And so that's where I was like, well, for doing it, judging it purely off of who deserves it. Then from a performance. It was one of those two, from a story, it's Gus, and then from a like, maybe secondary story, it's cruis. But I also find trouble with the if the Jellicle cats only get one choice, we're gonna give it to someone who we almost shunned or left us or completely abandoned us, and is coming back and is immediately going to be our one choice this year, which I find, I find troubling, yeah,

[26:29] Speaker 4: but you know, grisabelle is the one person that needs it, right? Like you see Rum Tum Tugger Mustafa, please. Yeah, they have great numbers, but they still have so much life to live

[26:39] Speaker 3: in. This tour, for sure, and I think that's the GUS argument. Then, yeah, Gus needs it.

[26:45] Speaker 4: Alan, she needs it the most. Gus, he is the most charming character. But I feel like if he, if he stays on this earth another round, everyone's going to still rally to his side. Take care of him. He's going to be the sweet old grandpa we all love, but poor Grizabella, she Yeah, she's not deserving of, deserving of what's happened to her. And so I was just always happy to see her go. Plus, I feel like that was the best member of the show. We had the most wonderful Grizabella, Leslie Ellis, and I think you used, he went on to become a Grammy Award winning vocalist. And, you know, we just did a benefit, as a matter of fact, where we brought the entire cast together. And it was a benefit for COVID relief, for Broadway care as an Actors Fund. Leslie sang memory again. And I thought, okay, I know she's a fantastic singer. I know she's still singing with her musical group. And I thought, wow, to see memory. That's that's a really hard song. How is this gonna work out? I'm telling you, she sounded amazing. So yes, Rosa Bella, definitely.

[27:52] Speaker 3: Well, I've been able to, I think I've been able to turn about half the people I speak to, so you're staying in the other half on the Reza Bella side, yeah, yeah. And I did less. His performance was great. And even the most recent, like the, you know, you did a for the benefit, there was a performance which was also amazing. We'll include the the link for anybody that doesn't want to donate, because they're, they're still fundraising for Broadway Cares. So we'll include that in the description. For anybody that's listening to this, please go and support the cause. Because the other benefit was, was really, really fun to watch back in I think it was the end of last year, October.

[28:30] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we got together because, as you know, theaters, because of COVID, theater shut down on March 17, and the entire theater community, not just actors and dancers, but backstage people, everyone's been out of work for over a year and maybe another half year more. So the cast got to, well actually, it was conceived by Jonathan cirullo, our director and producer, and Austin chatan, who was our old dude, and they said, Hey, let's, let's put on a benefit and help support the Actors Fund. And it was actually it made a lot of sense, because when we were on tour 34 years ago, this was at the height of the AIDS epidemic, and it hit the Broadway community hard. At the time, Michael Bennet, who was a Broadway director and choreographer, as well as our own dance supervisor and choreographer, Michael T Michael Reed, he had just passed at AIDS, plus other young men in the cast and people we knew in the community had died of AIDS. So even back then, Jonathan said, we've got to do something. We've got to help out. So we put together a benefit performance in honor of Michael Bennett. And at that time we, it was a, we did the show in Kansas City. It was a full production with an intermission. We had costumes and lighting, and it was, it was quite incredible when I could think about it, you know, when you're young. You're doing it, you don't think it's a monumental effort. But you know, we were still doing our cat show eight times a week. We were rehearsing these numbers, like the opening of Chorus Line and the finale of Chorus Line and the Tick Tock dance and all these numbers. We were doing it after the show in the hotel lobby or in meeting rooms, or we would be backstage in theater, rehearsing net net, we put on a huge benefit performance to support the AIDS crisis. And this is before Broadway Cares, equity fights. AIDS was even established, but we raised $34,000 in one evening. And so our cast continued to do these fundraisers throughout our tour, always raising money to support the Gay Men's Health Crisis Center and AIDS related funds. So fast forward, here we are again in another pandemic that's affecting the theater community. So it was just great that we pulled together this benefit where we did some numbers from cats, but it wasn't a performance of cats. It was more of a celebration of cats, and it reflected on what we're dealing with today with COVID, in terms of isolation and paying tribute to the essential workers. So we did a fortnight benefit, and we raised over $25,000 certainly, if any of your listeners are looking to support the theater and Broadway Cares, equity, fights, AIDS, I urge you, please go to our site at broadway.org/cast, 2020, and please feel free to make a donation.

[31:28] Speaker 3: That's yeah, I remember, you know, just getting to talk to Jonathan about that and hear the at that time too, that much money at that time is an unbelievable effort for such a cause.

[31:42] Speaker 4: Yes, yes. I mean, if you look at the somewhat did the calculation if today's equivalency would be over $80,000 Wow,

[31:49] Speaker 3: in one night. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. We

[31:53] Speaker 4: did a couple of shows. There was one we did in Washington, DC with Lily Tomlin, and we did other cabaret benefit performances. So we were, our cast was a very special cast. We were a family, and we were always very focused on various philanthropic causes. Incredible.

[32:08] Speaker 3: I want to do a quick rapid fire for you and a couple couple quick questions. And you know, we already covered, I'm not going to convince you on gris Bob. I'm also the bad attorney, uh, in convincing you that Chris Bell is wrong choice, but I do want to ask a couple questions about the show. So number one would be, if you were not the meter, suspend your vocal range, dance ability, just if you could play anybody, you're capable of doing anything. Which character would you really want to play? Which track?

[32:43] Speaker 3: So you want to go out there and just have a blast? Yeah, I want to

[32:47] Speaker 4: have a blast. I love big, big movement, big comedy. I love it. That's

[32:52] Speaker 3: awesome. That's, I think that's one of the most fun parts of the show that you just just kind of a free for all, in a sense. What's your favorite song in the show Macavity?

[33:04] Speaker 4: Of course, of course, it's bluesy, it's Jazzy, it's sexy. Yeah, all the things I used to be when I was younger.

[33:15] Speaker 4: character? Oh, I can't say least favorite character. Have to have one

[33:20] Speaker 3: cat you didn't like that person, not, not actor, actress. No, no, because somebody I don't know.

[33:26] Speaker 4: I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. But what was the other one besides my favorite, yeah, favorite character. You know, I always loved to meet her, but I love bomb, too. I thought she was hot, so it was great to play with her every night. Yeah,

[33:41] Speaker 3: you don't have anybody, you don't have one character. Just like, I don't really understand their purpose.

[33:48] Speaker 4: I would say the second cockroach, second row to the left. That's, well, I can say mine, because cockroaches on stage,

[33:58] Speaker 3: Yeah, mine was not in your production. So I always, I've always said Peter, which is Gus, is ensemble dance character in the beginning, who does nothing else besides dance in the beginning?

[34:09] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. There are a couple of odd characters like that, right? Yeah.

[34:13] Speaker 3: Okay. Well, now I want to ask you about the movie, because you said the cockroaches. Did you see the most recent like theater, not like Broadway movie, like the movie, movie, the movie movie, yeah, movie, movie, movie. What did you think?

[34:30] Speaker 4: Um, I, you know, I enjoyed it. I mean, come on, I'm sitting at home for like, 12 months with COVID. I enjoyed cats the movie, yeah,

[34:40] Speaker 3: the cocker scene, the cocker scene is what made me think about it, because that part was a little disturbing. It

[34:44] Speaker 4: was very disturbing. Yeah, you know, it was. It was a different take on cats. I think in a way, it explained the back story a little more. So I think as a audience member, you would see it, you would understand what's happening. I think. Like, yeah, but some of the visuals, like you said, the special effects, like the cockroaches that was, that was gross, but, you know, there was some spectacular dancers in that.

[35:11] Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely. I actually thought that the the editing didn't do the dancers justice, no, because there was some of the, I think some of the best dancers out there right now that never got just a frame or a couple a section where you could see them doing their skill. It was always moving around so much, it was kind of hard to follow,

[35:33] Speaker 4: especially the last Jellicle Ball at the very end. Was a crescendo, and the music gets faster and faster, and these dancers are just doing amazing things. But the camera kept moving. I was like, Why don't they pan back so I could see people dance? Yeah,

[35:46] Speaker 3: that was my biggest gripe. And the entire thing was that was that knowing some of the dancers that were in it, knowing my other big gripe is, I'm not a big fan of the original, the British of Mungo Jerry and rebel teaser, but maybe it's just because I liked the one I saw so much, and it was like, stuck in my head for weeks after that. When I saw that they did that version, it was I was just not prepared for it. Yeah,

[36:08] Speaker 4: and they really did make Victoria more of the star of the show, right? Why is she in that number? And then, why did you sing this other song that wasn't in the musical?

[36:18] Speaker 3: Why are people talking, and there's talking in it, which was everything that, like, there's no dialog in the theater productions, exactly, exactly, well, cheated a little bit to tell the story.

[36:29] Speaker 4: We want to do it to tell the story. I mean, you know, it's a film, it's Holly. We're just like, No, when they adapt books to film, they take they change it, right? They all the stuff text you would get from a book. And so it was to be expected, but you know, it was nice entertainment. It The thing I liked about is it brought back so many memories. Yeah, so, for example, my husband has never seen cats. He's never seen me perform, so I actually had him watch the movie. It was hard to have him sit through the whole thing, but I point out which cat I was, but it wasn't the real Demeter, and I was kind of disappointed in that

[37:05] Speaker 3: you got to show them the 1998 VHS. Yes, that's that is, like the theater production of it, with a little extra flair added to it, because there's no, there's no crowd or anything as well. But that's much more traditional,

[37:22] Speaker 4: at least, yes, yes. I think I'll see if I can get them do it this week. And I don't know if

[37:28] Speaker 3: nothing else, if you just go to YouTube, that's what's on YouTube. So you can just give them, like, three or four minute clips at a time,

[37:33] Speaker 4: exactly. Well, we did see the Jellicle, the opening Jellicle songs, many times, because for the for this benefit we just did. That's why I had to drop my memory and try to remember the song and what people were doing. So I watched it over and over again on YouTube, so he has heard it. Okay. Okay, YouTube, though, right. Yeah.

[37:55] Speaker 3: Last, last Rapid Fire question, if you had to be quarantined with one of the cats. Which cat would you want to be quarantined with a bomb, just

[38:06] Speaker 4: a bad girl? Yes. I mean, we would be drinking wine and different people. And, yeah, we'd have a ball

[38:17] Speaker 4: meet her. I do. I think she's the best character at the show.

[38:20] Speaker 3: Amazing. So I know you're you're not in theater anymore. What are you working on today is, you know, are you on social media? I guess are you? How can we find you? What can we follow with, along with you? And today?

[38:36] Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. So you're right. I'm no longer in theater. I actually retired when I was pushing 30. So now I'm a global marketing director in Silicon Valley. You know, I went back to school for business and marketing, so I did a whole I did my own heavy side layer. I have a new chance. I reinvented myself. Media on Instagram. I'm Deborah underscore Athens. I'm on Facebook. Yeah, I'm out there, and I also post a lot on the cats musical groups. So, yeah, hosting your show on my social media,

[39:13] Speaker 3: to the high tech world, I'm so excited. Is there anything else that we didn't cover today? What else did I miss? Is there anything else that we I know we covered the benefit, which I wanted to make sure we did. Wanted to make sure we did, but and I feel like we answered everything I wanted to talk about. But I'm also now curious, because I know you've got years of experience on cats and me,

[39:33] Speaker 4: why I think maybe the rehearsal process, I think that was the most unique thing, right? So typically, when you do a show, you you you go to the studio and they give you the the score, and you start learning lyrics, you start learning choreography, you learn your lines, and it's a very structured, highly concentrated period, because you typically only have, like, four to six weeks to learn the whole show and mount it before. Opens when we did cats, I remember going to the studio, and there you see like 30 other dancers, and they were all just gorgeous people. And instead of starting to learn music and choreography, they actually started talking to us about the story, the backstory of cats, what it means. And then they had us do like, at least half a day, almost for five days of theater games. They had us improvise, pretending that we were a cat. And I remember they had us crawling around the floor, and they'd be like, No, team up with a partner and pretend you're playing with ball of the arm, or now you're going to pretend that you're grooming yourself, and go and go take a nap. And so here we were crawling on the floor pretending we're grooming other people, other cats. And I remember thinking to myself, do we have time to do all of this? Because there's a lot of choreography and lyrics in the show. And actually it was, it was a brilliant move, because, as you know, in the show, there are many, many moments where as cats, we're just sitting on a set observing the scene. So when sitting there, nobody's telling you what to do. You have to know how to behave like a cat and react to the scene like a cat. So when doing all those improvs and exercises of pretending to be a cat, we were able to understand the length the body language of a cat. We knew how to react with other people as a cat. So I think that was one of the most unique experiences in mounting a show, is spending so much time just doing a lot of improv and exercises and trying to inhabit the the life of a cat. You know, thankfully, I grew up with cats my whole life, so I I kind of understood how a cat moves and how they jump and etc, but to do it with complete strangers was a

[41:56] Speaker 3: whole new experience. Yeah, yeah, cat, cat school, right? So you grew up with cats. They my cats that we grew up with. My family's always had cats, and they just sleep all day. So that's why I'm always like, what's the mannerism? And they're just laying there all day?

[42:09] Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe you there many times during scenes, we over pretend we're sleeping too.

[42:14] Speaker 3: That's your break. That's definitely your break. Yes, amazing, amazing. Well, this was so fun to kind of hear back from the experience, you know, early on and in the reaction. And I love hearing, I, you know, I think that there's, I'm still waiting to find the person that hates the show to come talk to me, because I want to, I want to. I want to know, like, it doesn't seem like there was that back then. It was just like such a pinnacle with such a hot ticket, and then it went on tour, and everyone got to see kind of this craziness, but also this masterpiece for the first time with no backstory or knowledge. Now, like now, everyone goes in with some opinion, almost completely. I think I might have been one of the few people that went the first time without a lot of opinion and just said, I know I need to see this and knew nothing else. And it was a little refreshing, because I don't think that that happens as much in today's day and age. I love getting to hear about your experience when that was pretty much everyone's first experience with the show.

[43:13] Speaker 4: Yes, it's quite magical, right? And it's a testament to why this show still endures, four decades later, people are talking about it, right? And you know, you go to the different fan sites on Facebook and Instagram, and people love the show today, and it just makes me so proud that I was part of theater history.

[43:37] Speaker 3: Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here, and thank you everyone else for listening to this episode of the wrong cat died, the podcast breakdown of the cast. Sash fee to follow along. You can subscribe on Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you get your podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at the wrong cat died. Or check out our website, the wrong cat died.com. You.