This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:17] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of The Cat Sashaphy. I'm your host, Mike Abrams, and today we have another amazing guest. She played Jellylorum and Griddlebone in the 1987 3rd US National Tour. So welcome, Joanna Beck, and thank you for joining me.

[0:30] Joanna Beck: Oh, thank you for having me.

[0:32] Mike Abrams: I am very excited to talk to you because I have talked to some Jellylorums before, but not to anybody who's done Griddlebone. So we'll get there. We'll ask all my crazy questions about your character. But what I'd love to first start with is just that your history with Cats. I mean, it's when you were on the 3rd US National Tour was when it was just starting to kind of tour around the United States. So what did you know about the show before being cast in it? Were you aware of it? Was it starting to pick up its lore at that time?

[1:05] Joanna Beck: Oh, it was a huge hit when it came on Broadway in '80, I think it was '81. And I saw it on Broadway because I was living in New York at the time and pursuing theater. And so I saw it, actually had a friend who's one of the understudies, got to see Betty Buckley do Grizabella. So I saw the original, pretty much the original cast. And just knew it was a huge hit, and was something that looked like a tremendous amount of fun to be part of. But it was a few years later that because I went out on tour with Showboat with Donald O'Connor and then came back in and did that on Broadway. And this was actually in '85 that we went out on this tour from '85 to '87. And, or, or was it '87 to '89? No, it was '85 to '87, I believe.

And I was actually in an audition for something else entirely. And Andy Zerman, who was casting director, one of the casting directors for Johnson Lyft, asked me to come and audition for Cats. So I did. I was not, I wasn't pursuing it. I don't think, you know, it wasn't, I was just going to any auditions. That's what you did. You just went to audition for anything you could. And five auditions later, I got a phone call that they wanted me to do Jellylorum and Griddlebone.

[2:45] Joanna Beck: Five auditions, wow.

[2:48] Mike Abrams: Five callbacks. That is a rigorous process.

[2:50] Joanna Beck: It was a rigorous process. But there were a lot of people, I mean, there were, there were people, this was when you stood in line to sign up for an audition, and you were there very early in the morning and the lines went around the block. So there were a lot of people wanting to be in that show.

[3:11] Mike Abrams: And what was that show like from a crowd reaction standpoint? Because this is, again, it was something so unique, so different. And it's the first time most people are seeing it for, you know, experiencing this on tour, because you're going city to city and really introducing it, unless someone happened to see Broadway or a version of, you know, I think it was in LA. There was only a couple versions before your tour. What kind of crowd reaction did you get? Like, what was the lore of it at that point?

[3:43] Joanna Beck: You mean the crowd reaction on tour?

[3:45] Mike Abrams: Yeah, in '87, '85 to '87.

[3:49] Joanna Beck: It was completely sold out. I don't think in the two years, we maybe had one week that was not completely sold out.

[4:00] Mike Abrams: Wow.

[4:01] Joanna Beck: It was, people really wanted to see it. I'm not sure if they wanted to see it because they were curious, or whether they had heard about it, whether they had heard the music, whether they had seen it, you know, on Broadway or what. But the crowds showed up, standing ovations all the time. And it just packed. I mean, we were in, I think it was St. Louis, Muni, outside in the summer. And I think it had something like 12,000 seats. It was sold out every night.

[4:34] Mike Abrams: That is pretty amazing. What did they tell you about Jellylorum? About the backstory? I mean, do you remember the information you were given on the character? And how to play her? Because again, this is pretty early on. There's not, you know, now there's 40 years worth of examples and multiple movies and everything else that there's a little bit more for the actors to work with. At that point, I mean, you were kind of basing it off of pretty much two or three productions that you had and what was told to you. So I'm curious what was told.

[5:15] Joanna Beck: Sadly, I don't really remember what was told to me. I mean, I don't remember that we were told a lot about our backstories. I think that David Taylor pretty much left us alone to create our own stories. I know that we had about three days solid of just doing cat improvs. Literally crawling around on the floor with each other doing cat improvs. I mean, it was fun. I would go home, I had two cats in my apartment, and I would go home and get on the floor and just watch them intently to just see what they did and just catch their movements. I know that sounds pretty silly, but it was actually sort of fun.

[6:04] Mike Abrams: It sounds silly, but I've talked to the 2016 cast who did this. A lot of them said the same thing. It's like the minute they were in tune to that experience, they did a similar type of, I think they called it validity school. They would see a cat on the street and would think the same thing. So it is kind of a unique piece of the show. What story did you write? Because if you got to create, how would you describe Jellylorum's backstory?

[6:31] Joanna Beck: Well, I was probably the, I think, if I remember this correctly, the next oldest cast member. So I used that in the show as being one of the older cats. So I was very much the mothering type of cat, very protective of the kittens. Then I also used that with Gus, very protective of Gus. So that's sort of how it created and then it just evolved. And the way it's choreographed is also has a lot to do with probably your stories that you can create. Because if you're choreographed and you're not necessarily with certain cats on stage, then you don't really interact with them.

[7:27] Mike Abrams: I think that's where a lot of these rumors come from. There's a very deep rumor mill for Cats, of which cats do together.

[7:32] Joanna Beck: I find that so funny. It's very funny.

[7:37] Mike Abrams: It's where I'm able to piece together. Again, I saw the show twice. I saw it in 2016 and then 2017, I think. And I've seen the 1998 movie and that's it. And so there is a little bit of the, how do I piece together this story? And a lot of it comes from this, quote unquote, rumor mill. And that's a part that I think is kind of a fun part to this show. But it also is where I think the more I've thought about it, the more I've learned. A lot of it is because it's just like you're friends with somebody before or after, or it's because of staging or dance numbers or the interactions that you have in your particular production. And so obviously there's a lot of ties for Jellylorum and Gus because of the song. Is there any other relationships that you remember that you thought from just purely from a cat's side of like, okay, I might be this cat's brother or sister, or we have some special relationship?

[8:34] Joanna Beck: Pounceful was my son.

[8:37] Mike Abrams: Pounceful is your son. Okay.

[8:39] Joanna Beck: Pounceful was my son. He was one of the ones that I, and I had a lot of fun with him. He was one of the ones that I, and I, I have no idea how much Jelly got around in terms of, but I'm sure that probably some of the other kittens could easily have been mine also.

[8:59] Mike Abrams: Yeah. There's a lot of that is kind of, I think a fun part of the rumor mills that it's like, you can probably make an argument that most of the older cats are supposed to be the parents of pretty much all the other kittens.

[9:13] Joanna Beck: Right. Yeah. I would, I would think MonkaStrap and I'd probably had some, some kittens together.

[9:18] Mike Abrams: Okay. So you and Monk, what about Bustifer and you?

[9:24] Joanna Beck: I doubt it.

[9:25] Mike Abrams: No. Okay.

[9:26] Joanna Beck: Yeah. I doubt it. Bustifer could more have been my brother.

[9:33] Mike Abrams: Ooh, that. So I asked this question cause I think there's an, there is a rumor that potentially Jelly and Bustifer are together or have been together and that Griz and Bustifer has also been together. And one of like Griz and you and Jellylorum are, are friends from growing up. And so there's a little bit of like, what happened in that scenario?

[9:58] Joanna Beck: Oh, well that, see, I didn't, now I, I, my relationship with Griz was a lot sort of hands off. I guess this is maybe the best way to say that. Cause I never felt, um, I felt a lot of empathy for her, but I did not feel like there was a connection that goes, went back.

[10:21] Mike Abrams: Okay. So you, you played more of like, you know who she is. You're not friends from growing up. Maybe much younger, but I think, I think she was older than me.

[10:38] Joanna Beck: Okay. I think Griz was older than Jelly.

[10:43] Mike Abrams: That is. Yeah. It's so interesting. Cause again, it's, it's everything you read is, it's like, you just never know. It depends on you.

[10:48] Joanna Beck: Well, it's whatever you want it to be.

[10:51] Mike Abrams: That's true. That is true. I think that's some of the beauty of, of the show is, is that that can be interpreted and done so many different ways and you get a different, so everyone sees it slightly different. What, um, what other pieces do you remember about like the backstory that you were not, maybe not for Jellylorum, but just overall the story of Cats we were told, because that's a piece I think is so challenging is, is that the plot is so loose.

[11:14] Joanna Beck: Well, to me, I think it's actually sort of simple. It is a gathering of a tribe. Old Deuteronomy is the head of the tribe and it's, we come together to present to Deuteronomy.

[11:36] Joanna Beck: I heard somebody say that we chose who went to the Heaviside layer and that was never my understanding. It was always Deuteronomy's choice. I've never heard somebody say that you choose.

[11:49] Joanna Beck: I've always heard it's Old Deuteronomy.

[11:53] Mike Abrams: Oh yeah. Well, I don't, why did I, I don't know where I got that, but somewhere along the way, I thought I heard somebody say that we, you know, that we all got together to choose who went to the Heaviside layer. I mean, at this point, I believe any rumor about the show, so. But it was basically a gathering of the tribe for those above, you know, almost like a family reunion kind of thing. But during that period of time is when we presented our choices for who we thought should be chosen to go to the Heaviside layer.

[12:27] Joanna Beck: And so you're presenting Gus. And during the whole process of that, there was lots of celebration and lots of reuniting and that sort of thing. So you're presenting Gus, basically saying, I think Gus is the choice. Yeah. And what about all the kittens that present? Are they just trying to steal the spotlight or do they actually think they have a chance?

[12:47] Joanna Beck: They, they're just like a lot of us. They feel like they have an opinion.

[12:51] Joanna Beck: What about your relationship with Gus? You're obviously presenting him. How does that come to life? How do you become the one to present Gus? What is the relationship? Why does Gus not present himself completely?

[13:23] Joanna Beck: I don't think Gus was capable of presenting himself, really. I mean, although he does have his song that he sings, but I also think that he, you know, I had to really egg him on to get out there to sing his song and to present his story. So I just think he was at an age where without that, he would just have been happy to sit back and just watch. Just watch and not be part of it. No, not be part of it. He was proud of his background and was happy to tell anybody about his background and what he had accomplished. But he had gotten, I guess maybe senile is a word to describe him a little bit. And so my caring for him was to encourage him. I was an encourager for him to get him to come on, relive this for us and let them see who you really are or who you were.

[14:34] Joanna Beck: OK, so you're basically it's that, you know, choice is being made. You think that deserves a choice. And so you're but he doesn't even want to go up. He's like, I'm tired. I just want to watch. And so you're kind of trying to push him along. And so that's because he, you know, well, at least the way Richard and I did it. And some of those were Richard's choices that I played along with or just, you know, fed into. He there was a lot of hesitancy there. I really had to almost literally push him forward to sing his part. And the hesitancy in the vocal song itself, you know, was indicated that he wasn't really anxious to do this.

[15:29] Joanna Beck: Yeah. The other kind of interesting part about your character is that you do Griddlebone. And so, you know, that's not something it was something that was loosely thrown into the most recent movie, like the Hollywood movie. It was not in the Broadway revival. So tell me about that whole section of the musical, because it's not something I have a lot of frame of reference for.

[15:55] Joanna Beck: I'm sorry you didn't get to see that because it was one of it was just fun, just tremendous amount of fun. So Gus becomes Growl Tiger. And and then, of course, he's on the ship with all of the pirates. And here comes Griddlebone, who is I thought of her somewhat as like a Mae West kind of character. OK. And but yet at the same time, if you think if you listen to the music of it operatically, it's a. It's the definitive dueling tenor and soprano.

[16:37] Joanna Beck: Interesting. Yeah. And the premise is essentially this is Gus reliving his. Gus reliving one of his roles, one of his roles, and you get to kind of play a part in it. Right. Right. Because I'm here comes the soprano. And I don't know if you're how much opera you've ever seen.

[16:55] Joanna Beck: Very little. Very little. There can be a lot of competition between a tenor and a soprano. And that's we just we just took that and went with it and made it a huge comedy routine.

[17:07] Joanna Beck: Wow. That's a fun that's a fun kind of piece of this. I feel like, again, the lure of the show is, is that there's so many different angles to it that it's something that loosely again, was loosely brought in to the 2019 movie, but wasn't in the revival and there's other kind of pieces. So I how do you think, like, what is that transition like? Because that's kind of like in the same song. Like, how does that like, how do you handle that like two different kind of characters and quote unquote roles when you're doing a show like that?

[17:42] Joanna Beck: Well, I was I literally Gus was sitting on a can. Basically, he goes and sits back down on a can or gets up and he gets up from the can and goes and his cape that he had on, which was a scraggly thing. He he gets it off and he literally has blow up arms like Popeye that come. I take the can and go off stage. Make a costume change. And I literally most places went to the back of the house and came down the aisle.

[18:22] Joanna Beck: Wow. I made a whole I mean, it was a whole different entrance because I had, you know, it was like the conjuring cat. I left at one place and I showed up in another place. So how challenging was that in most of these theaters? Because I have heard some horror stories in some of these theaters that getting to the back of the house from the front of the house is a, you know, almost a crawl or a very, very difficult task on tour. How did you solve that each week?

[18:50] Joanna Beck: Well, it had been planned out prior to us getting there. There were the stage manager, of course, had put together that route that I was to take. There were only a few places where I couldn't do it. And I had to just somehow come down to the front of the house and maybe go up some steps or something. But most of the time I was able to get around. Well, it's the same way we did Green Eyes at the beginning of the show. When you do Green Eyes, you come from the back of the house down to the stage and then you go back and get backstage. Because most theaters have entrances to stage right and stage left in the audience at the edge of the audience. So, you know, I would either come that way or another back way. Dressers were phenomenal. They had I mean, I literally had maybe a minute and a half to do this. Or two minutes, maybe a little longer than that. And I ran. But when you're doing this show eight times a week, your stamina gets built up pretty, pretty well.

[19:53] Joanna Beck: It's pretty amazing performance. Yeah, it is quite an athletic feat. But I would go around and it went over top of my other costume because those unitards, you know, you couldn't get out of them. So it was another unitard that went on top of my unitard. But it was just laid out to the point where I had to sit down. They threw it on me. Tied my shoes, put another wig, big, huge. I don't know if you've seen pictures ever. And put that on my head, put the gloves on my hand with these long fingernails and off I went.

[20:31] Joanna Beck: Was there any place where it was like a really crazy route that you had to go through a bathroom in a crawl space or anything like that? No, because that wouldn't have been able. That wouldn't been possible. No, because because of that, you didn't have enough time to do something like that. So if if there were places like that, that's when you just came down and went up the stage and it's dark. So they just hit you with a spot and you do the first line, which is her. It's an Italian ski a lot in Italian. And and then she that's when she and Growl Tiger start their little dueling duet.

[21:13] Joanna Beck: That's that's so fun. I have to find a better version of that on the Internet to watch of like of that scene, because I have yet to find a good one or at least like a really strong one to be able to kind of piece that together, because it's not again, not part of the storyline that I knew as much about. Is it in the is it not in the London cast version that's on the 1998 version?

[21:38] Joanna Beck: It might be. But I will tell you, I've only I've seen that one time all the way through and the other times I've seen it in pieces. So maybe I need to just fast forward. Just go back to the top of the second act. Yeah, I think I just push it all the way through and go and go watch it.

[21:55] Joanna Beck: I want to shift gears and talk about the fundraiser that you did recently, but also the fundraiser you did on tour in the 80s. So tell me a little bit about the, you know, the fundraiser on tour and what that kind of led to with the most recent one.

[22:10] Joanna Beck: I think you did it. It's coming up on a year that you maybe not that close. No, we did it. We did it in October. Yeah. Halloween or something. October of 2020. Yeah. Right. The first one that we did, I wasn't a part of and I'm trying to remember why. But I wasn't a part of the first one. The second I remember the second one that we did. Lily Tomlin was on stage with us at one point. And I want to say it was in possibly in D.C. Jonathan can tell you more about that. He remembers those details a lot better than I do. The first was Kansas City. I know that that was the big the very first one. But I continued for a while. So the second one was you said you think it's D.C. and now you're on stage.

[22:56] Joanna Beck: OK. Yeah. Because I remember singing. Make our garden grow from Candide. And which is a huge number. And interestingly enough, that was the show that Chris Toy and Mark Agnes and I were all doing. Right before we got all got hired to do Cats. So you were reliving old parts. I was reliving parts. But it's that was just a fabulous opportunity to get to do something different and to raise money for a good cause. But to just spend our time in a way that would help others.

[23:42] Joanna Beck: Yeah, I think that is a part that I've talked to a few people from your cast, and it's such an amazing cause. And like at the time, you know, an amazing, huge fundraiser for for the amount raised. You know what the value of the dollar at that time, just like, you know, if you do the math today, it's an incredible fundraiser. I'm blown away that you would do eight shows a week on tour and in your spare time also rehearsing other shows. And so how did you, I mean, find the time to do that? How did you manage as someone who can't perform, sing or dance, do anything? I just imagine you doing your show eight times a week and then trying to sing. I guess it makes a little sense that it was a previous role. So you knew a lot more of it. But learning all these other numbers and songs and settings, how difficult is that to do?

[24:31] Joanna Beck: Well, I think of the one in Kansas City where it was based on a chorus line and most everybody knew the new you know, it's you know, the shows you may not. You may need to do a little bit of work in terms of memorization, but you basically know the show anyway. And of course, the choreography, that's a whole different story. But these dancers, they do it all the time, every day, every year, for years and years and years. And you can somebody can throw a combination at you and you pick it up right away just simply because that's what you do all the time. As a singer, you somebody throws you a piece of music and you sing to it a couple of times and you may not have it memorized. But you you probably know it basically just because you do it all the time.

[25:41] Joanna Beck: That's such a skill and talent. And that's what's like so fascinating to see. I mean, which makes sense. It's everyone kind of at the peak of their field doing this and being able to do something that seems so challenging. But, you know, it's just kind of second nature.

[25:44] Joanna Beck: When you do it every day, it just does become second nature to you.

[25:51] Mike Abrams: And then tell me a little bit about the October kind of reunion, I guess, fundraiser.

[25:56] Joanna Beck: That was just so much fun and such an incredible blessing. The first time we were all on a Zoom meeting together, it was like, I think we sat there and just laughed because it was just so great to see people that we had not seen in years. We've had a couple of little smaller reunions, but it wasn't with as many people as were on this Zoom call and who were joining in to do this. It was a challenging thing to do because everybody had to sing and record themselves separately. And bless his heart, I don't know how Brian put that all together, but he's a genius.

[26:35] Joanna Beck: Yeah, to stitch everything together because you recorded it. It was all done individually, and then it's this beautifully put together piece. Not to mention that song is hard. And when you had not sung it in 30 years, it was that I had to sing through it quite a few times to try to get it back into my voice. But it was just a lot of fun. Just a lot of fun.

[27:07] Mike Abrams: It was such a cool thing to watch too. And I love that the fundraising is actually still going and the link is still open. So links in the description for anybody that can donate because it is such an amazing cause. Let's do some rapid fire. And I want to get to my kind of million dollar question. I love the whole premise of the show. And I'm curious to hear your take, especially as someone who defended Gus's honor in this. But before we get there, if you were not Jellylorum and Grizabella, which cat would you want to play if you could just be anybody?

[27:36] Joanna Beck: Victoria.

[27:39] Mike Abrams: Victoria. Do you want to do the incredible dance number?

[27:43] Joanna Beck: Yeah, I started ballet when I was six years old. And I at one point thought I might dance for a living. But then when I realized that I probably wouldn't be able to sing, because you have to put on blinders, I think, to dance. It's just got to be your total focus. Then I just said, well, I'm just going to be the best dancer I can be. But I need to sing also. But if I would give anything to do that solo, to be able to do that solo.

[28:20] Joanna Beck: Yeah, it is a memorable part. It's just perfect. And Joanne Hunter, to watch her do that every night was sheer heaven.

[28:30] Mike Abrams: Yeah, it's an incredible part of the show. It's definitely a piece that is super memorable. And I was close enough. I was pretty close to the, you know, not that great seats the first time I saw it because I saw a preview. I just remember sitting there watching that going, that looks so hard. So difficult to do.

[28:49] Joanna Beck: Oh, the control that that takes is, yeah, it's astounding.

[28:54] Mike Abrams: Who is your favorite and least favorite character?

[28:59] Joanna Beck: Gus is probably my favorite. And Macavity is probably my least favorite.

[29:04] Mike Abrams: Okay, so you stick with the, you know, Gus is the person you're defending always, and then you don't like the bad guy.

[29:11] Joanna Beck: Yeah, I love, yeah, I have a deep, deep love for Gus. And Macavity just, I have a hard time with anybody who, well, it's like a mama bear, you know, defending her cubs. Anybody that tries to hurt any of the tribe. Yeah, I don't have a problem with that.

[29:37] Mike Abrams: I have found it so interesting that most of the cast members I've talked to answer with the lens of their character, because you probably played it so long. Whereas for me, I'm as someone who's not in any particular cat, I'm always just like, well, yeah, here's why I don't like this one, right? Here's why I love this one. And it has no reference to like, oh, because I would, I'm a jelly, I probably would think this way. And I've really found that like, you spend so much time in that character that it does influence your decisions there. What about favorite song?

[30:15] Joanna Beck: It's interesting, the one that would stick in my head the most, that I would, was Mr. Mistoffelees.

[30:22] Mike Abrams: Well, yeah, same name over and over again.

[30:25] Joanna Beck: Well, that, and there was just a joyousness about it, about him.

[30:32] Mike Abrams: That's a very interesting one, because it is such a fun, upbeat, loving song. The one that got stuck in my head when I saw it the first time was Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer. And the one that gets stuck in my head now, or like the one I sing the most now, and sings the wrong term, I like just hum because I can't sing, is Macavity, gets stuck in my head all the time.

[30:51] Joanna Beck: That's a great song. That is a great song.

[30:56] Mike Abrams: I love, again, I love hearing because there's no really wrong answer. It's kind of fun to hear a bunch of people's different takes to it. Here's a question that I love asking, and it's more of a personality of the cat's character. So there's two parts to it. Which cat do you think would be in their element, so like thriving in 1987? And which cat do you think would be in their element thriving in 2021?

[31:12] Joanna Beck: 2021? Okay, I'm not sure I understand the question. Would be thriving...

[31:23] Mike Abrams: Yeah, so if you stuck this character's personality in that era, who would be doing the best? Like if we think about 1987, and we think about today, which cat do you think is, you know, you plopped them into that, and their personality is just living their best life?

[31:42] Joanna Beck: 87 would be Tugger.

[31:49] Mike Abrams: Rock star. Rock star.

[31:51] Joanna Beck: Just living it up. Okay, love that answer. What about today?

[31:56] Joanna Beck: Cillabub comes to mind.

[32:01] Mike Abrams: Cillabub? Why Cillabub? I don't think anyone said Cillabub for this answer.

[32:07] Joanna Beck: Because of what we've gone through in the past year, I would equate that with, you know, how she goes to Grizabella. She's the one that reaches out to Grizabella because of her heart, her loving heart.

[32:22] Mike Abrams: I do think that there's a lot of merit to that. So you're saying because she's so thoughtful, and like, she'd be taking care of everybody. She'd be the one trying to make sure everyone during the pandemic is safe and healthy and doing what they need to do.

[32:31] Joanna Beck: That's it. Yeah, that's a great answer. I've always taken a different route, which I've always said Bustopher, because it just seems like a kind of a slightly obese cat who just consumes a lot at home, is probably doing fairly well.

[32:47] Joanna Beck: Doing very well at home.

[32:53] Mike Abrams: In her element, if you say, if you use the phrase in her element, then it seems like Cillabub gets to be her authentic self.

[33:00] Joanna Beck: That is true. It's very true. So here is my million dollar question. And it's what I've argued this whole premise of this podcast is I've argued that I don't think Grizabella is the right Jellicle choice. So I'd love to hear if you defend Grizabella and why, and if not, who would you make as your Jellicle choice if you get to influence Old Deuteronomy?

[33:30] Joanna Beck: I think Grizabella was the correct choice.

[33:34] Mike Abrams: I'm surprised. I was waiting for you. I mean, you present Gus. I was waiting for a Gus argument.

[33:38] Joanna Beck: Well, he would be obviously my second choice, but Grizabella was the one that was most in need of grace and restoration and forgiveness. All of those things that you think about as someone being lifted up to the Heaviside Layer.

[34:01] Mike Abrams: So the whole argument you think is still that she is because of need that she is going. And you think she has more need than Gus.

[34:09] Joanna Beck: Okay. Gus wasn't ostracized like she was. Gus was applauded and loved and adored, but he just got old. He got old, he got old, but he didn't need the restoration that she did. I actually think about it in terms of if you look at Mary Magdalene or the woman at the well, that's who I compare her to.

[34:45] Mike Abrams: I have always understood the redemption story. I think it's kind of an interesting line of like, because she wasn't even there and she's returning on that.

[34:56] Joanna Beck: Oh, I think she was there.

[35:02] Mike Abrams: Oh, you think so? Do you think she was part of the tribe at this point?

[35:05] Joanna Beck: I think she was back in the hiding and dark place. She was in a dark place.

[35:13] Mike Abrams: Okay. So you're saying she's kind of been around the tribe for a while still and she's back and she's just, it's just time. They don't present it that way as much, or maybe that's not the way I interpreted it, is that she's returning for the first time because everyone seems so shocked to see her.

[35:29] Joanna Beck: Because you don't see her very often. I always thought she just kept to herself and she didn't feel like she deserved to be around the rest of the tribe.

[35:43] Mike Abrams: I think the best part about doing this podcast is that there's so many different ways. This is, again, I think this is probably the literal translation of the show, is that it is a redemption story and it's about forgiveness and her return or her being there and coming back. I've loved that so many people have made other arguments beyond me and that there's just so many ways to look at the show. Because I think you even saying that she's been there the whole time is not the way a lot of people look at it or is very different than the way a lot of people look at it.

[36:17] Joanna Beck: Well, I think that she's just, again, she's an outcast. She has, and again, felt just totally undeserving. But she was brought back into the fold and gives everything she can.

[36:37] Mike Abrams: This has been so fun. Thank you for doing this. Relive the glory of the show and everything you've done in the fundraisers. Any parting words about Cats that you think the masses need to know?

[36:53] Joanna Beck: No, I think that people need to go and look at Cats as if without any expectations, basically. You go and just with an open mind and enjoy it and let the music wash over you and watch the incredible choreography and enjoy that by itself. If you have to have an explanation for everything, then I think you're missing the magic.

[37:28] Mike Abrams: I think that was one of the biggest challenges of the show for me as someone who likes a neat and tidy plot and story and didn't get that. But also appreciated everything I saw. So I think it is good sound advice to when the show comes back and it will keep going.

[37:47] Joanna Beck: It eventually will.

[37:49] Mike Abrams: It will eventually be back. That you can watch it from that lens and appreciate it and enjoy the show and to not go in and try to spend 50 plus episodes trying to figure out the plot on a podcast, but to just go and enjoy it.

[38:06] Joanna Beck: Enjoy it for what it is, and what it is, is going to be different for everybody who watches it.

[38:16] Mike Abrams: Well, thank you again for being here.

[38:19] Joanna Beck: Thank you.

[38:19] Mike Abrams: And thanks everyone else for listening to this episode of The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of the Cat Statistrophe. To follow along, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or anywhere else you listen to podcasts. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at TheWrongCatDied or check out our website, thewrongcatdied.com.