This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:07] Harrow: Welcome back. This is Season 4, Episode 2, an interview with Justin David Sullivan.

[0:14] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Thesis on Joan is a podcast dedicated to amplifying voices from the LGBTQ community in the New York performing arts scene and examining the industry from a queer perspective. Join us as we sit down with groundbreaking theater folks, both on stage and behind the curtain.

[0:30] Harrow: For many queers, theater has been an escape, and this podcast looks to have open conversations on where we've come from and where we're headed as a community while queering the canon along the way.

[0:58] Meghan Dixon Thesis: If you want to hear more about Harrow and my thoughts on & Juliet, you can check out one of our last episodes from season three. We'll link to that in our show notes.

[1:08] Harrow: Justin David Sullivan is a non-binary singer, actor, and artist in New York City. Originally from Southern California, Justin was born with a passion to create and the determination to color the world with every crayon in the box. With a creative mind and a plethora of different interests, Justin never doubted their purpose. They are born to perform. Their heart for theater stems from their love for storytelling. Justin is passionate about diversity and representation in the performing arts and hopes to be seen as an advocate of inclusivity. Their greatest hope is for their art to continue to represent marginalized communities and shed light on the culture and experiences that they carry as an openly queer person of Mexican and Korean descent. Justin is committed to using their platform to uplift and inspire other trans, non-binary, and gender-expansive people and give a voice to the voiceless.

[1:59] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Hi, Justin. We're so excited to have you on Thesis on Joan.

[2:02] Justin David Sullivan: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[2:06] Harrow: Yay! We usually start with our guests sharing their name, their pronouns, and whatever you want to share about how you identify.

[2:13] Justin David Sullivan: Absolutely. My name is Justin David Sullivan. My pronouns are he, she, and they, and I identify as trans non-binary. Um, and I am an actor here in New York City doing the thing. And um, yeah, really, really stoked to be here again. Thank you for having me.

[2:31] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, of course. And in addition to acting, you're also a singer, you are an artist. So this is a lot of identities. You have a very busy schedule. How do you balance this out and how do these identities inform each other?

[2:46] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, I think, you know, all of those labels are just something that I use to try to explain my creative mind. I think they all really lend themselves to each other. You know, I'm a singer and an actor who does musical theater primarily, so you know, those things go hand in hand. And um, as an artist, I just love exploring all sorts of creative fields. Um, most recently, during the quarantine, I started a little passion project of creating art and making it into like stickers and stationery and sold it on Etsy and just all sorts of things that inspire me. So um, I would say that I just love to create. And um, theater is my favorite pathway to do that, just because I feel like there's nothing like it in the world, you know, it's live, it's living, and it's fresh and it's right in front of you.

And all of my favorite elements of creativity, like makeup and set design and costumes and all the things that really excite me are all working together to tell a beautiful story. So yeah, that's where I'm at, and I'm super happy to be here.

[4:02] Harrow: That's so cool. Is your Etsy store still open?

[4:07] Justin David Sullivan: I wish it was, but I unfortunately had to put that on pause, but you know, maybe she'll make a comeback.

[4:13] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, you're busy. I understand. You got two customers here though.

[4:17] Justin David Sullivan: Love Stacy. I'll send you guys some stuff.

[4:21] Harrow: Oh, thanks. Uh, so in your bio, you share that you were, quote, born with a passion to create and the determination to color the world with every crayon in the box. And how does that determination drive you creatively?

[4:35] Justin David Sullivan: Oh, that's a great question. And I have not read that part of my bio in a long time, but that really is hitting the spot. Like I really resonate with that. I think as a kid, I have always really leaned into my creative side. And there was always a strong point of view, and I think that that is what drives me creatively, is to make sure that everything that I'm a part of is accurately representing, you know, the world and the way that I see it. I love to really leave my stamp and leave my mark. And um, I think that is true for a lot of creative people probably. And so yeah, I think hopefully people resonate with the way that I see things and create things, and I love to experience and witness other people share their truths as well.

[5:33] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I'm imagining the crayon box you're talking about is like the giant one with the sharpener on it, like my standard plus colors.

[5:40] Justin David Sullivan: Oh yeah. And I would, oh there were so many rules. I was not the kid that was just like scribble, scribble, scribble. I was so particular and so exact with what colors I used, where I placed them, and I think now that I'm an adult, not much has changed. I would get so mad when people would put them like out of the right color box.

[6:02] Harrow: Oh my gosh, I know. There's a way that things are supposed to go, people.

[6:07] Justin David Sullivan: All type A here, okay.

[6:12] Meghan Dixon Thesis: So, uh, we have this habit of like digging things out of people's bios. So continuing on that trend, um, you also have stated that you would like to be seen as an advocate for inclusivity. So how do you bring this advocacy to your art?

[6:28] Justin David Sullivan: I think I would like to think that, you know, in everything that I do, I am showing up as my true authentic self and growing up, you know, in a space and time where I wasn't seeing anyone else like me in mainstream media. I wasn't seeing mixed folks or, you know, at the time I hadn't come out as non-binary or realized that part of my identity, but um, have always stood out as someone who was clearly very queer, clearly very, you know, going against the norm. And um, I think that the way that I try to live my life is knowing that the space that I take up is important. Like me being there matters. And in a sense, my presence is my protest. And I would like to think that in anything that I do, I am, like I already mentioned, just showing up authentically and not trying to fit a mold or trying to change certain parts of myself to appease people who might not understand that.

Um, and make space for other people to do the same and to see that, you know, you can be all these different things and still achieve your wildest dreams. And um, I think it's really important. I think representation is really important, especially in a place like Broadway and theater, where, you know, queer people are so at the center of the creation of this art and just historically, and yet our stories are so not very often told. And um, and so I think that's what really drives me to keep going and to keep advocating for more inclusivity in theater spaces and spaces just everywhere.

[8:28] Harrow: I know, I mean, I'm Korean, I'm non-binary, and seeing you on a Broadway stage in a musical was very moving for me. And so I know you're having that impact on people already. So, uh, yeah, thank you for doing that work. It was really amazing to see.

[8:41] Justin David Sullivan: Thank you for sharing that. Oh, that is so cool to me because, you know, it's like to even in my hometown, it was like it was just me, you know what I mean? And to know that there are other like non-binary Korean people out there and people that are like, you know, invested in theater in the same way. I'm like, that's so wild how, you know, this project has allowed us to cross paths, and I'm so grateful for it.

[9:07] Harrow: Yeah, me too. And you share that, you know, you're Mexican and Korean, and how are these identities and how do they inform your art and your advocacy, do you think?

[9:17] Justin David Sullivan: Totally. You know, I think um, two different things. So, uh, being of mixed race, being of um, two minority, you know, races, there is such a culture attached to that, right? And um, oftentimes being queer and being anything other than, you know, a certain type of way in our parents' minds, it's not really celebrated or supported. And that was very much true for me as a child. Like, I think both of my parents had very religious conservative upbringings and definitely tried to instill those same values in me. Um, and I think a lot of minority children can resonate with that. Um, that's one part of it. I think the second part of it is being of mixed race oftentimes leaves you feeling like there is you're not sure quite where you fit in.

Like I feel, um, in a room full of Korean people, I feel like I'm like, oh gosh, I am an outsider, and in a room full of Mexican people, I feel the same way, um, in a different way. And I think that's just a theme that has come up a lot in my life of just feeling like I don't have a place to belong. I don't have like a group of people that are like, yeah, that's it. Um, I've always kind of felt like an outcast, which has, you know, taught me a lot about myself and also has led me to here where now I'm connecting with people who, you know, are like the yeah, exactly. And that's really cool to me. And so I think anytime that I get an opportunity to tell a story or to be on stage and take up space, I think that is allowing, you know, those parts of my identity to shine, whether or not it's like in the storytelling, um, it matters. And I think it's pretty cool.

[11:30] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And do you feel you, you mentioned that it was really hard to like identify with people in the performing arts field. Like, do you ever feel like you saw an artist or a performer that made you feel seen? Or is that kind of a recent thing or not a thing at all for you?

[11:45] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, I think it's definitely more of a recent thing, just in terms of like times where I was like weeping just because I was seeing them on stage. The first Broadway show I ever saw was Miss Saigon, and I got to see Eva Noblezada, who is also a Mexicasian, um, on stage, and just oh my god, first of all, that show is gut-wrenching and really intense. So I don't know if I would recommend it as like the first Broadway show, which so happened to be. Um, and you know, separate thoughts on the show itself, but like just seeing her presence and knowing that all these thousands of people are like seeing her stand in her excellence, um, as a mixed race person as a young person was so moving to me.

[12:35] Justin David Sullivan: I would say I was most moved in my lifetime. Um, when I I'm from LA, by the way, I'm from Southern California, so I saw as much theater as I possibly could, but there is not nearly as much as there is for New York. So we're all very spoiled and lucky to be here. But um, the Pasadena Playhouse in LA put on a production of Little Shop of Horrors, where George Salazar was playing Seymour and MJ Rodriguez was playing Audrey, and that I think was a turning point for me, just to see those two telling a story so beautifully, so authentically. Um, you know, George as another Mexicasian who does not fit the standard stereotypical Broadway mold and MJ Rodriguez, a beautiful, strong trans woman telling the story in her skin.

It literally, I was weeping through the whole show. I saw it four times because I just couldn't, I couldn't stay away. And that inspired me um so much just to know that it was possible um to tell uh you know a beloved story um in a way with so much truth, and it just added so much depth that other productions of that same show I never saw. And I think in that moment I was like, that's exactly what I want to do. That's exactly what I feel like I was meant to do, is to bring all of the pieces, all of my trauma, all of my hardships, all of the things that I've worked through and overcome. And I don't have to speak about it. I don't have to, you know, show it. But the fact that I moved through those things and overcame them and am taking up space in a way where I'm, you know, able to share my creativity, share my art.

Um, I think that is like truly the moment when I realized that that was really what I felt called to do, and I'm so grateful to them and everyone who has inspired me to know that it was possible to keep going. And um, so yeah, those are just a handful of artists that I absolutely adore and admire. I remember seeing the video of them singing suddenly see more, and I'm like, I don't know if there's a production I've ever wanted to see more that I know I'm not gonna see. Yeah, I saw enough times for all of us, so it's okay. It's live it up here in my melon.

[15:16] Harrow: I'm so glad you got to see it. Um, so thinking of Broadway as an industry, like what changes would you like to see in terms of trans and non-binary representation on Broadway?

[15:28] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, what a loaded question. Am I right? Uh, but simply put, I just want more. I just want more. And I know that we are in a time and space where change is brewing, and I'm so thrilled to see that. Um, you know, there are so many elements to this question that I don't even know if I can fully wrap my head around it. To simplify it, I want trans and non-binary stories told and written by trans and non-binary people and performed by trans and non-binary people in a safe place in a way that is empowering. Um, that's what I want. So uh, you know, I don't know how long it'll take to get there, but I'm seeing, you know, changes. I mean, Harrow, we recently just met at an event for the exciting launch of Breaking the Binary Theater.

Um, and just to even know that that exists is hope in my heart that, you know, this is just gonna snowball and people are going to be uplifted by trans voices and non-binary voices um in theater and beyond. So that's my greatest hope.

[16:50] Harrow: Yeah, we've been to some, we went to several of like the festival shows last fall, and uh we went to their closing rap party, and like that environment is just so lovely to be a part of, and I just love supporting them.

[17:03] Justin David Sullivan: It's healing, isn't it?

[17:04] Harrow: Yeah, like it just being in that space, feeling like you can put your shoulders down and just knowing that everyone gets it, and there's really nothing that you can compare that to. And I'm lucky to have, you know, my non-binary and trans family here in the building, and um it's also really exciting to not be the only one, you know. I am I'm so used to not even being the only non-binary person, but the only queer person in so many spaces, and so I feel really grateful to have, you know, built a community, and um really proud of our show. And we're gonna move into the show now. That was like the first half. Now we have so many questions about & Juliet.

[17:51] Justin David Sullivan: I am thinking though, that I need to like print out the Breaking the Binary logo and like put it on my mirror like a mantra. You know how people do that in the morning, and I'll just like wake up and be like, theater's gonna be okay.

[18:01] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I have a sticker for you, Meghan. I'm gonna get you next time I see you.

[18:06] Justin David Sullivan: Amazing. Okay, so moving into one of our many questions about & Juliet. Um, so May is unlike anyone we've ever seen in theater, and you said it's your dream role. Can you tell us more about what drew you to this role to begin with?

[18:26] Justin David Sullivan: Oh my gosh, what didn't draw me to the role? Um, I have a kind of a funny story about how this all came to me, but um essentially a friend of mine was in London um during I think the early previews in 2019, and I got a text from him at intermission of the show saying there's this new show in the West End called & Juliet. There's a role that's perfect for you when they bring it to the states you have to be in it. So it's been on my radar since like the first conception of it. And you know, obviously I didn't know the full story, so I only had like the cast recording and you know, bits and pieces here and there. But what I gathered was that this character was so special because, you know, oftentimes in theater and on Broadway, queer characters are like the comedy shtick, or like, you know, the best friend, and that is uh May is Juliet's best friend in the show.

But I think what I love so much about May and what drew me to the character was May is such a three-dimensional character and has an arc that I've never seen before in a queer character, let alone I mean, I haven't ever seen another non-binary character. So, like just to have that exist was like, whoa, that sounds right. And um, I didn't come out as non-binary until um 2020 actually. Um, I think that time caused a lot of us to like sit back and reflect on life, and um I think that's something that I had been avoiding for a lot of my life, mostly because I wasn't in a space where I felt safe enough to explore that or unlock that. Um, but as soon as I did, everything felt right. I felt such a rush of relief of like, yeah, this is who I am, like, this is who I've always been, and um, I'm really grateful for that to have gone on that journey because I think even before that, like so much of May's experience resonated with mine, and once I was able to fully step into that authenticity for myself, it just became so clear that this is who I have always been, and that I didn't need to be scared of it anymore.

Thankfully I was in a space where I was safe to do that and um welcomed and celebrated and um valued for that. So yeah, I love this character so much. I can't even tell you how lucky I feel to get to play this character and tell the story eight times a week. It's the honor of my life.

[21:09] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, that's really amazing. When did you start working with & Juliet?

[21:09] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, so um I had an initial self-tape that I filmed in the fall of 2021. Um, about six months passed by and I didn't hear anything. Um, and then in this spring—wait, I lied it was—wait no, I didn't lie, we're in 2023 now. Oh my gosh, time is flooding everyone, whoa, time is flying. Okay, we are in 2023, so this is true. Um, then I heard back in spring of 2022 that I had an in-person callback. Um, or actually there was one more self-tape that I had to do, and then after that self-tape I heard that I had an in-person callback. Um, so I did the callback and I'm not sure if you saw it, but there is um a TikTok that went around of me finding out that I got the part. Um, and oh my gosh, I will never forget that day.

I will never forget that rush of emotion. Um, it was unlike anything else I've ever experienced and that was uh I believe in March of 2022. Um, and then we started rehearsals for um the out of town production in Toronto. Um, we started rehearsals in May. Those were in New York, and then we all traveled to Toronto together in June. And then we did the show over the summer. It was the most wondrous experience ever. Like, I can't even tell you how much fun I had there. Um, and then we opened on Broadway in October.

[23:04] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Wow.

[23:05] Justin David Sullivan: Wow.

[23:06] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I can't believe you had to wait six months until you heard back.

[23:10] Justin David Sullivan: I know. You know, there's more to that story, but essentially they were they had already done their like casting pool and they weren't looking for any further submissions. Um, but I knew I was like, I have to be in this. I have to at least be seen for it. And my agents at the time were like, Well, we have the material if you want to just film a tape and send it in and see if you know that gets you anywhere. Um, and I was like, absolutely. So they didn't actually even ask for my audition, but I gave it to them anyway because I was like, please, I really, really, really I feel like this is the perfect fit. Um, so yeah, and after that, you know, I honestly didn't think about it. I didn't I wasn't like, oh, I didn't get it.

I wasn't like, uh, like anxiously waiting their response. There was like some sort of like supernatural peace that I had in my heart of like, you know, I'm proud of myself for I against all odds, you know, sending in a tape. Um, I literally did it within like 24 hours. Um, it wasn't my favorite tape I've ever done, but I was like, I don't care, you know, it's fine. I think that, you know, as long as they see me, I think hopefully that will be enough. And I guess it was.

[24:35] Justin David Sullivan: It was. Wow. That was so destined.

[24:38] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, truly. And then thinking about like the rehearsal process, what was how is gender and identity a part of the discussion with May and how did that go?

[24:50] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, it's kind of been like a, uh, I think a work in progress. Like I said, the show started in 2019, and there were plenty of conversations that I was not in the room for because this is a show that has transferred. So I think that they've done work with, you know, the original people that have played May and people that have come into the show to play May, um, to kind of expand on the character's gender identity and things like that. But in terms of the rehearsal process, it felt very transparent. We were lucky enough to have the writer David West Reed in the room for all of our rehearsals almost, and as well as Max Martin, which is insane. He was just, they were, they were all just there.

And so if we ever had questions or concerns, like it was kind of like an open forum to talk about these things, um, which was really cool. And I think that's like the most exciting thing about being a part of a new work is that, um, you know, there's room to change things and feel, you know, there are times when David West Reed would be like, how would you say this? And I'm like, I cannot believe an Emmy-nominated writer is asking me how to write a line, but, um, yeah, so I think a lot of the conversation about building the character happened before I came on. Um, and I think when we did the first read-through and or when I first read the script myself, there was just so much truth that I felt in the character and the way that the character was presented and the story.

Um, so I felt very confident and happy to move forward with the rehearsal process without having many questions or concerns about the character, just because it for me at least felt true, and also just knowing that, you know, there's not one specific way to be non-binary. That is, you know, kind of the whole point is that it's such a spectrum, and for me it just happened to be like right on the head. I'm like, wow, it's like you wrote scenes of my life that, uh, you know, I have experienced time and time again. Um, so yeah, and I think, um, the team was very supportive of me, and, um, it was, yeah, it was really fun.

[27:16] Harrow: I love how collaborative it sounds, even though it is like a work that was transferring, that's amazing.

[27:21] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, that was really exciting for me. And audiences have been responding so strongly to the show and so positively. Do you have any anecdotes you could share about either audience interactions, whether I know it's harder in person, maybe online with fans of the show?

[27:39] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, I mean, I get so many messages, which is like that used to be me as like a young theater person, you know, reaching out and sending all the fan letters. And I think what's so special is that it's not just like, I think you're so talented and so cool. It's like, you're the first queer person, you know, first brown queer person I've seen, you know, telling this type of story on Broadway. And those messages are just such a reminder to me of why I never gave up and why I had to persevere, um, because I didn't have that growing up. Um, I didn't see myself in theater. I didn't feel represented by anyone, um, when I first got really interested in theater. So, um, I think so many, so many people have resonated with this character and I think that's really, really special.

Um, and I tried to read all of them, but there's also like a boundary that I have to set, you know, to make sure that I am in the headspace to be able to maintain myself and keep doing the show, uh, every single day almost except for Mondays. Um, but probably my favorite, um, audience interactions that I hear, um, and there hasn't been one, um, actually, which blows my mind, is when people tell me that seeing the show or they were with their parents seeing the show, um, and seeing, you know, May's story on stage gave them the courage to come out to their parents or to come out to themselves. And, you know, I think I'll just let that speak for itself for a second. Like theater has the power to change the world and change people's lives, and I truly believe that for this show to tell this story so beautifully and to be a part of that someone's experience of like, oh my gosh, like that's it. That's, that's, that's how, that's what's going on in my head. That's the thing that's like, oh, in the depths of my heart. Um, is like really, really, really cool.

[30:08] Justin David Sullivan: It's really cool because I, you know, as a kid, I can't imagine, or just being like young in today's society, like really young. I can't imagine how, you know, scary that must be to be with that all over again. But then to have to give people courage and hope that like I can, I can access this part of my identity and like maybe one day dream about telling that story on a Broadway stage is like crazy, you know what I mean? So I think that is the thing that gets me the most and tugs at my heartstrings is when people find truth in a story that they either hadn't realized before or felt that they couldn't share, and, um, being able to share that after witnessing the story that we're telling is like, you know, that's why we do it. So I feel very moved and inspired by that.

[31:11] Harrow: Wow, that's so incredible. I'm sure you're impacting folks too in ways that like they that aren't even reaching you, and that's wow, that's so wonderful. Uh, I got goosebumps. Um, yeah.

[31:27] Harrow: Um, so thinking about the music of & Juliet, so it's a jukebox musical, but not really in a traditional sense. And can you tell us about how the music in & Juliet helps tell May's story? And do you have a favorite musical moment in the show?

[31:42] Justin David Sullivan: Oh, that's such a hard question to ask. I mean, all of these, all of the songs in & Juliet are like truly some of my favorites. Like "Domino" by Jessie J. She's my favorite singer of all time. So like the fact that I sing that on Broadway is like, what? Um, but I think what's really cool about & Juliet is that there's so many queer anthems in the show. Like, um, for example, I sing the song "I Kissed a Girl" by Katy Perry. I so specifically remember that coming out on the radio and being like, oh my gosh, this is so scandalous. Um, to get to, you know, take that song and like it in the context of the show, it's still very queer, but in a very different way, is like, whoa, there's like so many layers to it.

And, um, I love the show. I think it's so smart and so funny, and also just has so much heart, you know. And I think not only do all of the songs help tell my story, but just tell everyone's story in a way that is like, are you sure this isn't written for the show? Like, it's just so oddly specific and so brilliant.

[32:56] Justin David Sullivan: Um, so that's really exciting. Um, but I think, you know, specifically for May's journey, um, getting to sing the infamous Britney Spears song, "I'm Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman," is very, very something that I feel like the first time I heard that song in the context of the show and understanding what they were trying to achieve through that, I was like teary-eyed. I was like, so like, wow, like that is so fresh and so cool that someone gets to experience, you know, singing that song. Like I love singing like quote unquote gender-bent, you know, songs and musical theater songs, and that was like literally my entire repertoire as I was like auditioning and things. And for that song, you know, that has lyrics like it feels like I'm caught in the middle, um, and things that just totally the context of the character in the song that totally resonate with me.

Um, is just really, I mean, I keep saying it's really cool, but I think it's really cool. I think it's like, wow, like what a thing because people already know that song, and, um, and I think, you know, sometimes people don't necessarily know where the song is going, like, um, depending on the audience, like sometimes people will chuckle at the beginning. Um, but I think by the end of the song, it always feels like the audience is on the journey of knowing, oh no, this is, this is a moment. This is, um, this is something that is not just, you know, here to. I think they understand the importance of the song in that moment in the show. Um, and I think, yeah, it's really, I feel really lucky to get to sing songs that I've loved so much in the context of such a beautiful show and on a Broadway stage. It's like dream come true after dream come true after dream come true.

[35:08] Harrow: Yeah, I think you bring up like the chuckling, and then earlier said like how queer characters are sometimes just like the like side funny sidekick. I feel like I was, you know, kind of bracing myself for that going into this show and I was like so pleasantly surprised by how like genuine the story was. I was, you know, like when you go into any space as a queer person you're kind of like, okay, like is this how are we gonna get made fun of, you know? And the great thing about this show is that it does have such broad appeal, you know, so I'm in the audience with people that aren't necessarily, it's not a queer audience per se necessarily, but I feel like everyone was still responding to it in a very like genuine way which is amazing.

[35:51] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, yeah, so cool. And speaking of that, do you feel like & Juliet is a queer show? Would you call it a queer show?

[35:57] Justin David Sullivan: I think it's the queerest show on Broadway. And you can quote me on that. I mean, like I just can't imagine, I mean, I can't imagine something more queer, but like it's so, it's so cool to see especially when there are queer people in the audience because you know, you know, I mean like these are like these are the songs that we bump in the club. Like these are like, it's like Ariana Grande "Break Free." Like, you know, I mean like that song for me when I was coming out was like I would like blast it in a car. And for that, for those songs of like, you know, gay pop icons like Britney Spears, Katy Perry, um, and also like something as gay as like musical theater is like, it's just like so many layers to it.

Um, and you know, obviously, my character specifically and the storyline, um, it tells a queer story in a way that I'm unfamiliar with, like truly. Like I've seen other queer stories told on Broadway that are like really sad and really tragic. Um, so it's really nice for this to be a show that gives me a happy ending and gives, um, you know, it gives you a sense of hope as you leave the theater and not like, you know, travesty.

[37:20] Justin David Sullivan: It's something I think that's new, and yeah, there's so many layers to the queerness of the show. I think the show lives in a world where like there's a lot of present fluidity, even in like the ensemble, and yeah, I love it. I always say like if I was not in this show, I would be in this theater every single week. Like there's no doubt about it. This would be my favorite musical, and it kind of is so I know that's very biased of me to say, but gosh, I just it's so cool and it's so refreshing.

[37:58] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, you like predicted what we were gonna talk about next. Because we're like, this show has such queer joy in it.

[38:04] Justin David Sullivan: We love it.

[38:05] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh my gosh, yes, I know we both felt that walking out of the theater too, and just like I love listening back to the songs, like not just in the cast album, but like the original ones now, and thinking of them as queer songs.

[38:19] Justin David Sullivan: It's my favorite. I know it's so cool. It's the script entirely. So you've had like a dream last year, like a year ago, you didn't even know that this was all gonna happen. So it's kind of hard to think ahead. But what would you be excited to work on next? Or do you have something to share that you're working on next?

[38:39] Justin David Sullivan: I don't have anything that I'm working on currently, presently, but you know, my heart is so open. I think I got to this point by leading with my heart and bringing myself to every audition room, every creative project that I was in, you know, like bringing my perspective, and now I'm telling a story that's basically my own on a Broadway stage, which was like my number one biggest dream in life. So I, you know, I'm really trusting of the universe to guide me into whatever is to come next. And I'm really excited about it because I didn't ever think, you know, I thought, you know, maybe one day I would maybe get to be in a Broadway show, but like I don't think that I ever thought it would feel so real to me, like feel so relevant to just who I am and what I've persevered through.

Like I think that that is something that I couldn't even dream about. So I think I'm hoping that my next project is also something that I couldn't even dream about. Um, or that Max Martin just decides he wants to give me a record deal. That would be yes.

[39:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh well, we're so excited to follow whatever you do next. Uh yeah, it's gonna be awesome. Uh moving into like our final sections, we ask all our guests. Um, the first one's called Queering the Canon.

[40:11] Justin David Sullivan: Ooh.

[40:13] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Is there an existing musical theater role that you would like to play and to queer?

[40:19] Justin David Sullivan: Oh my god, absolutely. I mean, I feel like this is like as queer musical theater people, this is all we think like how do we how do we make this queer? And how did that make the story better? Because it would. Yes. Um like in my college years, my answer right off the bat would be Kathy. And I know that there have been queer productions of The Last Five Years, but that was like really my favorite musical. Um, so Kathy is obviously a dream role of mine. But I think in today's day and age, I would love to see a queer production of Hadestown where I'm starring as Eurydice. Um just because Greek mythology is so layered and so interesting, and I just feel like that story kind of lends itself. You know, it's like such you know, it's a famous love story, much like Romeo and Juliet. So I would have to say, yeah, Eurydice in Hadestown, dream role.

[41:12] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Wow. Who, Megan, who are we talking to that said they wanted to like produce The Last Five Years with two non-binary actors and then have them like swap roles every time?

[41:25] Justin David Sullivan: That's brilliant.

[41:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[41:28] Justin David Sullivan: We have to go back because this is probably the at least the sixth or seventh time The Last Five Years has been one of the answers for Queering the Canon. The Last Five Years is gay. Like, what do you want me to say about it? It has to be also this Hadestown dream seems very realistic to me.

[41:43] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[41:44] Justin David Sullivan: So I got to see Hadestown in Korea and it was amazing.

[41:48] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh my gosh, I have literally gone through the archives and I've seen every clip of promotional footage that I can because it just like it does something to see like a Korean people like ah, doing like a Broadway musical. It's so so so ugh, I don't know. It does something to my soul.

[42:06] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, I'm so blessed. I'm so glad you got to see that. So now we're even.

[42:10] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah.

[42:16] Justin David Sullivan: So this is all we love the answers to this question. Outside of theater, what is your queer culture indulgence? What music, maybe events, shows, movies?

[42:28] Justin David Sullivan: It's hard to think about that right now because my life is so submerged in this show. And I think probably anyone on Broadway can relate to that because you're like, outside of what is outside of theater exactly. Um but I think before that, you know, consuming as much queer culture, like that's really all I do. I, you know, any show that has like a queer character, I'm watching it, Drag Race, you know. It's just like at this point, I'm like, do I even mention these things? But um I love celebrating queerness. My favorite month of the year is Pride. Like that is my Christmas. Um and I like to think that I celebrate Pride year-round that pride lives in me, parade or not. Um, but you know, I would love to find some more downtime to consume queer content.

Right now I'm reading um a book I have here. What is it called again? Oh, I guess we're gonna get a problem. I know, and I'm not much of a reader, I'm not much of a reader at all, I have to admit, but this book was recommended to me. It's called Just by Looking at Him, and it's written by Ryan O'Connell. Um, and this is a queer story. Um, so I think I love supporting queer art. I love supporting queer artists and consuming queer music and TV and film, and luckily there's so much you know coming out that is queer. You know, obviously I've watched Pose and free watch Pose and just everything. I'm like, give it to me. I am your target audience. Um if you have any recommendations, I am super open to them because, you know, I only know what I know.

[44:11] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh my gosh. So many. Have you seen A League of Their Own?

[44:15] Justin David Sullivan: No.

[44:16] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh, oh my god. It's uh it's on Amazon.

[44:19] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah.

[44:20] Meghan Dixon Thesis: A League of Their Own. I'm writing it down right now.

[44:22] Justin David Sullivan: Yes. Have you seen the movie?

[44:24] Meghan Dixon Thesis: The original movie.

[44:26] Justin David Sullivan: I don't. Okay. Here's the other thing. I did not grow up watching a lot of movies because I was very sheltered. I watched Veggie Tales and I like everyone's like, you haven't seen that movie. Like the other day I was watching um, I was watching Charlie's Angels for the first time.

[44:43] Justin David Sullivan: For the first time. Can you believe that?

[44:50] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh yeah, I mean, even that even that movie is queer to me. I feel like I find queerness in everything. I'm like, queer, absolutely. Just because I'm like, yes, like I am her. Like I get it. Like, I don't know. But um League of Their Own, no, I haven't. League of Their Own. And then um, my favorite right now is P-Valley.

[45:10] Justin David Sullivan: Uh, it's P-Valley.

[45:11] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Okay, see, I'm clearly behind. But you know, please, please give me grace. I'm only here every day.

[45:21] Justin David Sullivan: It's her show, and it's about a strip club in Mississippi, and it's oh so good.

[45:26] Meghan Dixon Thesis: I need to watch it. Isn't it on like a platform that I don't pay for?

[45:29] Justin David Sullivan: I think it's on Starz.

[45:31] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, that's it.

[45:32] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah. So you gotta get to that.

[45:34] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah. If you like Pose, you should read The House of Impossible Beauties. It's like super devastating, but very if you're in for a good cry and you wanna read about early ball scene.

[45:49] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah.

[45:50] Justin David Sullivan: Well, thank you so much. I have homework to do clearly.

[45:54] Meghan Dixon Thesis: You're busy. Just uh and then our last section, uh, we call queer gives. So is there like an organization or mutual aid fund or any kind of group that supports the LGBT community that you'd like to shout out for our listeners to support?

[46:12] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah, right now I am really excited about The Open House Project. Um that was started by Sis. I'm not sure if you know her, but she is like an advocate, and um that program is all about offering accessible or free tickets to Broadway shows, um specifically to black, queer, non-binary, trans, um people of color, underprivileged people, um minority groups, um, and giving them access to see shows. And I think that is so cool. As someone who grew up, you know, without money, um and never got to see like the first show that I saw was I think I was like 17 years old, my first like actual professional show that I ever saw. And so now that I'm here on Broadway, there's nothing more than it that I want to do but like expand the reach of people getting to experience theater.

Because like I said, I think theater changes lives and changes the world, and as many young people as we can get filling these Broadway seats, the better because they are the future. They are the ones who are gonna tell these stories so beautifully and be inspired, and hopefully some of them will get to see our show, which would be really cool, but I think that has been on my heart lately.

[47:31] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Yeah, we uh we had Sis on the podcast last year, and this must be a nothing because she didn't get to talk about it.

[47:37] Justin David Sullivan: Yeah.

[47:38] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Oh no, yeah. It's out there. So if you're listening to this podcast, go follow them because they post on their story um like submissions for when they have uh available tickets. And oftentimes they are um completely paid for, you just have to fill out a form.

[47:53] Justin David Sullivan: Oh that's amazing.

[47:57] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And last but not least, how can our listeners follow you in all the amazing things you're doing?

[48:02] Justin David Sullivan: Oh yes. If you um want to find me, you just I made it pretty easy. You just um search Justin David Sullivan, it's just my name um on Instagram, TikTok, and my Twitter is basically Justin David Sullivan, but like just kind of crammed because you can't you can't use that many characters in username. But I'm sure it'll be easy to find. It's just my name.

[48:24] Meghan Dixon Thesis: And we'll link to that as well. Um awesome. Well, thank you for all of that. This has been an amazing conversation.

[48:32] Justin David Sullivan: I know, I feel so refreshed. It's so it's always so cool to talk to people who just who just get it. And thank you for making me both comfortable and for having me as a guest. I'm so honored.

[48:43] Meghan Dixon Thesis: My gosh, we're honored. It's so lovely to talk with you.

[48:49] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Thanks for listening. If you like, please rate and review us and share us with your friends. So excited to hear your queer culture recommendations or any of your ideas on how we could queer the canon. You can call us.

[49:01] Justin David Sullivan: Yes, actually, call us and leave us a voicemail at 845-445-9251, or send us an email at thesisonjoan at gmail.com.

[49:13] Meghan Dixon Thesis: Until next time, keep it queer.

[49:16] Justin David Sullivan: Not that it'd be that hard for y'all to do.

[49:29] Justin David Sullivan: My half-sweated off show makeup. Thank you so much.