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[0:00] Kila Packett: And what "Assassins" is doing is it's allowing us to peer into that window of American grievance and, you know, watch these myths through the eyes of our villains instead of our heroes. So it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable. But y'all, I mean, those chord progressions, amazing, just amazing.

[0:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to "A Musical Theatre Podcast," where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theatre history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today we are talking about the musical "Assassins," which is probably, I'm gonna guess, one of the darkest musicals we've ever covered on the podcast. But I'm still very excited because we have an amazing guest to discuss it. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Kila Packett.

[1:05] Kila Packett: But it has to be like a waltz. Da da da.

[1:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, this musical is—I'm so—thank you, mahalo. Thank you for doing this.

[1:23] Kila Packett: Thank you for fighting me. FYI, that's 100% why Kila is on here, because I Instagram stalked him and he was kind enough to say thank you and yes. We both have the same—we both speak musical theatre. It was just meant to be. It truly, truly was. And you are a huge, huge Sondheim fan.

[1:44] Kila Packett: I am a huge, huge Sondheim fan. Every Sondheim fan feels that they're the biggest Sondheim fan and they all have ammunition to back it up, no pun intended. So, you know, it started in high school and it's continued on into my old age. And yes, there's just so much to talk about. Where do we begin?

[2:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, let's talk about the fact that you have a history in classical theater and are yet still a musical theatre nerd, which means I couldn't love you more.

[2:13] Kila Packett: Well, I think the musical theatre nerd came first.

[2:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Talk to me about that. I want to hear your story. How did you fall in love?

[2:25] Kila Packett: Well, I guess I've always loved musicals ever since, you know, my mom put on the VHS tape of "Annie" or "Funny Girl" or, you know, any of those in the Disney musicals. Obviously, there was just always that part of me that wanted to stand out and wanted to show off, "Look, I can sing these songs too!" Right? And so, you know, you have that music teacher that discovers you have a little twinkle in your eye and puts you in the school musical. And then I got involved in the church musicals. Growing up in Texas, I'm an army brat, so I grew up all over the U.S. And no way! I really started getting involved there with the church theater. I played King Wenceslas in "King Wenceslas: The Musical." And my very first kind of mainstream musical was at a small regional theater called Vive Les Arts, and they put me in the children's chorus in "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat." And then started being attracted to like the mainstream songs from, say, "Phantom of the Opera" or "Les Mis," and then the rest is history.

[3:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We have very similar stories. I remember my parents chaperoned my older brother's high school trip to New York, and they went and saw "Phantom of the Opera." And so they came back with like the double cassette tape.

[3:36] Kila Packett: The double cassette tape!

[3:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I just have the highlights. Oh, that's amazing! And I remember sitting on the kitchen counter because, like, we had that big, like, '90s stereo system on the kitchen counter, like looking through the little booklet at the pictures and following along with the lyrics and picturing what on earth they saw. And that was really, I feel like, the beginning of me being obsessed with what was going on in the theater and why hadn't I been there to see it.

[4:08] Kila Packett: I also remember my parents because they had seen touring productions of Elizabeth Taylor and "Little Foxes." They saw Yul Brynner in one of his final performances in "The King and I." Oh my gosh! And then they saw "Evita." And, you know, just the idea of something like "Evita" is really interesting to a young kid. I'm like, "Oh, she died! Why was she so famous?" And then you listen to the music, and that was like early, early elementary school. But then when we moved to outside of Washington, D.C., in my junior year, I started getting involved in a kind of a community theater group of teenagers. The voice teacher had kind of created this little group at this Presbyterian church, and we did—she cast me in "Godspell." And Broadway performer Jose Llana was actually Jesus in that!

[5:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're kidding!

[5:03] Kila Packett: Totally! We kind of grew up together. Yeah. And then we did "The Secret Garden" and then "Carousel." And that's when I met my other friend Henry, who ended up going to NYU and studying acting. And we had this Sondheim connection. We would like write songs together, and we even performed "Pretty Women" for a pre-show, and we performed "Agony." And I didn't even get the humor for "Agony." I thought it was like, you know, I was a teenager. I thought I was like in real agony. So I had a lot to learn. The best comedy comes from honesty, so there you go.

[5:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, how did you run into "Assassins"?

[5:34] Kila Packett: High school. So, you know, when you're in high school, you're kind of—because I got really into "Sweeney Todd" and I guess "Sunday in the Park with George." But when you're in high school, you're also at this heightened level where you're kind of looking for that edgy, that edgy—whether it's a musical or movie, you know, we're kind of like in the goth stage and we're feeling all this angst, right? And so "Assassins" was like the perfect bullet, right? I mean, it just had that dark comedic edge. And then when it's put to music so brilliantly by Sondheim and then obviously, you know, the book by John Weidman, it just opens this amazing carnival-like world of like, "Wow, this music really speaks to me at 14," right?

[6:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, it's so true. And I know I've talked about this on the podcast before, but do you remember Columbia House or BMI? Like those catalogs that you'd get and you could pick eight CDs and then get two for free if you paid full price for one? You know, like it was some crazy thing like that.

[6:37] Kila Packett: I did that! I think I got "Cats" and then like the best of ABBA and, you know, stuff like that. Oh, and maybe a Janet Jackson something. Naturally. But anyway, yeah, come on!

[6:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so funny! "Assassins" was 100% the result of those catalogs. I'm pretty sure I got "She Loves Me." I always have to talk about "She Loves Me" on the podcast, "Sunday in the Park with George," and "Assassins." And I loved it. I wasn't obsessed with the music in the same way that I've been obsessed with other scores, specifically other Sondheim scores. But there was something about "Assassins" that moved me emotionally so much. In fact, I remember bringing it up at the dinner table. There's this specific dinner that I remember, and I was sitting on one end of the table and my dad was sitting on the other. And I was so intrigued and moved by the idea of the final scene where Lee Harvey Oswald and John Wilkes Booth are having this conversation and how it was attempting to reveal this underlying current of emotion percolating underneath this trauma of these traumatic events in history.

And so I bring it up at dinner, and my dad, who lived through the JFK assassination and was a political science major in college, immediately like takes a hard right into conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination. Like, whoa! We were no longer talking about anything emotional. It was Cuba was involved, Jack Ruby, etc., etc., etc.

[8:14] Kila Packett: I can go ahead.

[8:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, no, please! So I can just hear it now—your mom saying, "Honey, your father and I have come to the conclusion that we don't want you listening to musicals anymore."

[8:26] Kila Packett: God bless them! They were totally willing to have this conversation. But looking back on it now as an adult, it makes me realize that when there are these deep traumatic events that we go through as a country or individually, the hardest thing to do is to process them emotionally. The first thing that we do—or not the first thing, but it just seems that it is as much a tradition as these events themselves to come up with some sort of conspiracy to explain them away instead of really internalizing and figuring out what on earth was going on, you know? And I think Sondheim and Weidman were really trying to make sense of the assassination of JFK, you know? And I think people of that generation, the Boomer generation or whatever you want to call it, everybody knows where they were at that moment, kind of like 9/11 when I was—when I had just moved to New York.

[9:21] Kila Packett: Absolutely! I'm sure Sandy Hook will be the same for other people.

[9:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly! So reassessing, you know, trying to make sense of it all, I think was also one of the defining reasons why they created this piece. This is a total accident, but the last episode that was released was all about "Camelot," and you can't talk about "Camelot" without talking about the JFK assassination. And now here, like, the very next episode is "Assassins." I promise I did not do that consciously, but you're exactly right. John Weidman, in talking about writing the book for the show, he says, "I was in high school when Kennedy was assassinated, and it was my first real experience of loss. The whole 'Camelot' thing is hard to evoke for somebody who didn't actually live through it, but the connection between people my age and the future that Kennedy seemed to represent was electric and very emotional. I was devastated by his assassination." The notion that that kind of grief, not just national but international, could be caused by one angry man in a t-shirt with a rifle seemed inexplicable to me.

[10:25] Kila Packett: Well, totally! And it's like the question of, you know, how could one inconsequential angry man cause such grief and anguish? And more importantly, why would he do it? And that's what they wanted to explore in this piece. Why did all of these characters, these nine characters, do what they did? You know, and it's an exploration of their characters, and it's kind of a moment for the audience to see them before they became famous because, of course, nobody had ever heard of Sarah Jane Moore or Sam Baker or whoever before they had committed these atrocious acts. And they want the audience to just not necessarily to empathize with them, but to understand that look at what led up to this. There's a series of events, not only in their lives but in American history, that has led up to each of those moments.

[11:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So true! I think that—I can't remember if this is John Weidman, so forgive me, but—

[11:29] Kila Packett: You're forgiven.

[11:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He wrote, "We don't ask the audience to sympathize or even empathize with them," which is what you absolutely just said. "We simply present them as something more multi-dimensional than a bunch of freaks living outside of the American experience." And so if that is the case, if they are more than just these random freaks, then there's something to learn. There's something to gather from their experience in this country as fellow citizens.

[12:01] Kila Packett: Of course! I mean, there's a reason why they preserved Charlie Guiteau's brain.

[12:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They did?

[12:07] Kila Packett: Yeah, they preserved his brain and his skull. And I think he was excited about it. He wanted to be like a celebrity. And they wanted to see what, you know, what makes an assassin, for lack of a better term, what makes them do what they do. And so, yeah, his brain is somewhere in a jar.

[12:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We'll have to take a field trip sometime.

[12:32] Kila Packett: In a garage owned by Hannibal Lecter!

[12:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right! Well, let's talk a little bit about the creation of the show. Because at this point—well, I wasn't there!

[12:43] Kila Packett: What are you talking about?

[12:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: At this point, 1990, the last Sondheim show that has come out is "Into the Woods," which is widely considered maybe his most accessible show.

[12:50] Kila Packett: Well, I did sing "No One Is Alone" at my high school graduation, so there you go. It had an impact on me.

[13:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Case in point! I love "Into the Woods." It's, of course, it's incredible. And I love that he immediately followed that up with his most inaccessible show, "Assassins."

[13:09] Kila Packett: Right, totally! Now, he and John Weidman had worked together previously on "Pacific Overtures," and when they—

[13:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Another amazing show!

[13:22] Kila Packett: And when they were talking about something new to collaborate on, Sondheim remembered being the judge of this musical theater competition, and one of the submissions had been a musical about a Vietnam vet who ends up becoming a presidential assassin by having this like fantastical interaction with John Wilkes Booth. And he didn't like the show, but he liked little pieces of it. And so apparently he contacted the creator and was like, "Hey, I want to do my own sort of spin on this," but it's totally different. He gets permission, and he and John Weidman start down this path of creating a show looking at all of the people who either have successfully or unsuccessfully tried to kill the president.

[14:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, John Weidman and Stephen Sondheim start working on the show. It premieres off-Broadway at Playwright Horizons in 1990 and opens to mixed to negative, but probably more on the negative side of things in terms of reviews.

[14:59] Kila Packett: Yeah, I think, who was it? The New York Times said that, I don't want to misquote him, but basically said it missed the aim. Some crazy gun pun from Frank Rich saying that if they're going to hit the bullseye, they need to aim a little sharper.

[15:21] Kila Packett: But we love Frank Rich. We love your book, Ghost Light. I read it in like a week. Amazing butcher of Broadway. The thing also that's really interesting to remember about this time is the window in which ASSASSINS first opened is the 47 days that Desert Storm was raging in the Gulf War. So, for those who may not know, this was like the first Iraq War. And there was this period of time in which the United States was just like pummeling Iraq so that they would get out of Kuwait. I believe the first preview, the very first performance was the day before the first attack on Iraq. So, they said the first performance was kind of fine. Everyone was like really into it. And then after that, everyone was like, oh, is this too soon?

What's going on here? Because, I mean, it's a dark show and it's both critical of the United States. And I find it a little patriotic, to be honest, as well. Of course, it's very celebratory, music-wise as well. But I think it was just way too much for an audience to really grasp onto, even if it is, you know, a legend like Sondheim. So, it quickly folds, like after 70 performances, it doesn't go to Broadway, but it becomes a cult classic for those who love Sondheim and love his repertoire and immediately starts being done in colleges a lot.

[16:45] Kila Packett: Yes, we have to thank Paul Gimignani, the musical director, and Michael Starobin for reorchestrating the musical for the recording, because during the performances at Playwrights Horizons, there were only three musicians, of which Paul Gimignani was the drummer. And so, Michael Starobin said, well, if we're going to do the recording, we might as well do it big time, since we didn't get to go to Broadway. So, they had it for 33 musicians. And I think that's why the recording is so spectacular, is because it just kind of amps up the brilliance of the Americana, the John Philip Sousa, the Stephen Foster, the Aaron Copland, the Barbershop Quartet, all that stuff, the 70s kind of carpenters feel of Unworthy of Your Love, etc. So, we really have to give props to Gimignani and Starobin for making that recording so special and so timely of that time. Otherwise, it would have just disappeared probably in memory.

[17:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it would have been like a roadshow sort of situation.

[17:44] Kila Packett: Which I also saw. I saw Pacific Overtures at Studio 54 in 2004. I saw Roadshow in 2008. And I did see Assassins also at Studio 54 in 2004.

[17:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Let's actually talk about that real quick. They were supposed to have a revival of Assassins. And then, I mean, talk about timely. The Iraq War interrupted the first one, and then 9-11 interrupted the second one. As we'll talk about the show, there is a whole section about an assassin hijacking an airplane and trying to crash it into the White House. So, you could see how many people would have thought that was a little soon to be presenting on a stage in New York City. So, it gets postponed. It finally does open. The revival opens in 2004 to, I mean, raves. It couldn't have been more different.

[18:35] Kila Packett: I mean, it only won the Tony for-

[18:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It won a lot. It won Best Revival. It won Best Director. It won Best Featured Actor. It won Best Orchestrations. It's interesting that it's one of those-

[18:48] Kila Packett: It's interesting that it was also up for revival.

[18:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's what I was just going to say. It's like a Little Shop type of situation where it had never been on Broadway, but the Tonys didn't think that it could be considered a new musical.

[19:00] Kila Packett: Right. A bit of trivia. It was nominated for a Drama Desk Award in 1991 for Outstanding Musical. Do you know what did win that year?

[19:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 91 Drama Desk? Oh, gosh. You're really testing me. I'm going to say

[19:18] Kila Packett: Kiss of the Spider Woman.

[19:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'll give you a hint. That actually was the following year.

[19:22] Kila Packett: Okay. Okay. Not bad.

[19:26] Kila Packett: Daisy Egan.

[19:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, Secret Garden.

[19:28] Kila Packett: Yeah.

[19:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Secret Garden won the Best Musical Drama Desk Award?

[19:33] Kila Packett: Yep. It was Assassins and Secret Garden and Will Rogers' Follies.

[19:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, look. I think they may have made the right choice there.

[19:43] Kila Packett: Yeah. Can't go wrong with Secret Garden. That's a whole other podcast.

[19:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is. It's a whole other episode. I can't wait, but it's perfect.

[19:50] Kila Packett: Okay. Cool. So you saw it. What did you think? Were you moved? Were you angered? Because the show purposefully does not come to a moral conclusion.

[19:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's meant to make you go to dessert afterward and talk about it.

[20:04] Kila Packett: Well, let's see. Anytime you see a Sondheim show, there is an energy in the room, in the theater. The first Sondheim show I ever saw was, well, professional, like on Broadway, was the revival of Follies. That was in 2001, directed by Matthew Warkus. And when there's applause at a Sondheim show, it's literally like a bomb going off because it's just so rapturous and so loud. So just to be there, just to be in the audience for Assassins, it was just kind of like, look what we've done. Look what we've been through, y'all. And now we're finally here and we're all in it together. And it's just like, look, we did this together, right? Because obviously theater's a collaborative moment. So yeah. I mean, long story short, it was incredible.

I think Michael Cerveris as John Wilkes Booth was incredibly palpable and emotional. And I think Neil Patrick Harris has done a lot of Broadway work. And I think that was really like his best, in my opinion. It just fit him so perfectly. The scene work between Becky and Baker and Mary Catherine Garrison. One of my biggest takeaways from that was the non-musical parts of that production, because the music is so ingrained in my head. And I think you listen to the soundtrack constantly, but we don't get to see the play. We don't get to see John Weidman's book. And when we do, we see how brilliant Weidman's work is and how he kind of weaves this tapestry, because it's not linear. These are characters that are-

[21:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No. At best, it feels like a review in many, many ways.

[21:41] Kila Packett: Right. Right. And they talk about that because of Pacific Overtures, it's kind of like, okay, this event happened and this event happened sequentially. But in Assassins, it's like a collage and it's this patchwork of all of these characters coming together and interacting with each other as ghosts. Are they ghosts? Are they a figment of their imagination? And so to see that book work done so well, so strongly, like threading all that music together was really, really wonderful. I wish I could have seen it more than once. But as you know, Broadway ain't cheap, y'all. She's expensive. Oh, and I have an Annie Golden story, but I can save that for later or when do you want that?

[22:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, save it for later. It's nothing big, but it's cute.

[22:25] Kila Packett: Look, she is adorable and doesn't age somehow. She sounds exactly the same in hair as she does in Assassins. Insane, that Annie Golden. All right. Let's talk through the show. One of the hallmarks of a musical theater podcast is that we go through the show and kind of point out the emotional and historical content of it. One of the fun things about this show is that we've got a 90 no people, 90 minute no intermission.

[22:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Go to the bathroom before.

[22:52] Kila Packett: Fair enough. What I'm trying to tell you all is go to the bathroom now before we start.

[23:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: May I use the restroom?

[23:02] Kila Packett: Please, by all means.

[23:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Can we pause here for a second?

[23:04] Kila Packett: Yeah, absolutely.

[23:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, we're back.

[23:09] Kila Packett: Okay, we're back. The show takes place at a carnival shooting gallery, like one of those, like at Frontierland at Disneyland or even when you shoot the water in the clown's mouth, right? Some sort of game involving a gun, which that's kind of disturbing now that I think about it.

[23:29] Kila Packett: There are many. There are many.

[23:31] Kila Packett: I loved Duck Hunt when I was little. Anything where you got to like shoot a gun and I'm not like a huge gun fan, but it is really kind of ingrained in our culture.

[23:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, you kind of, it's like a sense, it's like a false sense of power that you have. You know, every kid wants a BB gun. You know, every kid wants a chance to step up and prove, right?

[23:53] Kila Packett: Prove that they have muscle.

[23:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So true.

[23:55] Kila Packett: And there's no easier way to have muscle than to let a little machine do it for you.

[24:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The show begins with this character named The Proprietor, and he seems to be like the carnival barker, if you will, the one who's enticing all of these different characters to come into the shooting gallery and try their hand at killing a president.

[24:17] Kila Packett: Now, are we singing the show as we talk about it?

[24:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: If you would like.

[24:22] Kila Packett: Hey pal, feeling blue.

[24:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What I love about Sondheim's score here is that every song is an ode or an homage to a very specific style of American music.

[24:38] Kila Packett: So in this big opener, which is called Everybody's Got the Right, the musical style that he's pulling from is the tradition of musical comedy.

[24:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Everybody's got the right to be happy.

[24:54] Kila Packett: So you've got that musical style that is based in history, but then he does something really smart by creating a lyric that is almost what we believe in this country. The lyric is everybody's got the right to be happy, which feels good when you hear it, especially with that musical comedy melody. You're like, yeah, that's right. We do.

[25:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But then you step back and you're like, no, that's not what we've been saying at all. From the beginning of the country, it's we have the right to pursue happiness. Being happy is a whole other thing and is kind of up to you to be perfectly honest.

[25:32] Kila Packett: A free country.

[25:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But the equity to pursue happiness, that is the ideal. And so what the proprietor is doing is kind of taking an American dream and twisting it in a way that I think preys on all of these people's insecurities in different ways. Maybe they feel insignificant, unseen, unrequited love, whatever it is, he's telling them you should be happy and this will be the quickest way to do it.

[26:08] Kila Packett: Well, right.

[26:11] Kila Packett: And this will make you happy because the government has not made you happy. And so that song, everybody's got the right, is what can happen when the government is blamed for standing in the way?

[26:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting.

[26:26] Kila Packett: We could go on and on.

[26:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We could talk about the attack on the Capitol on January 6th. I'm sure you were going to bring that up later.

[26:35] Kila Packett: But it's this whole like there is a difference between the right to the pursuit of happiness or the right to be happy. And so that's how we begin this musical, y'all.

[26:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then you're supposed to clap at the end.

[26:49] Kila Packett: We're right.

[26:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And right away, it's, you know, hey, pal, feeling blue, don't know what to do. Come on and shoot a president is like literally in the first minute of the show.

[26:59] Kila Packett: And so the audience is like, wait, what?

[27:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Shocked.

[27:03] Kila Packett: Yeah.

[27:03] Kila Packett: Nervous laughter. And I think regardless of if it's nervous laughter, we are given permission at the right at the beginning to laugh because, spoiler alert, the show is hilarious.

[27:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's funny, especially those book scenes, man. There are some really funny parts of this show that you would think should not be funny at all.

[27:24] Kila Packett: Yep.

[27:25] Kila Packett: So it's a really complex opening number. It's funny because the characters, they don't know they're deranged. They're so committed to who they are. You know, when we're crazy, we don't know that we're crazy. We think that we're doing the right thing.

[27:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[27:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[27:41] Kila Packett: Yep.

[27:41] Kila Packett: And just like those princes in agony.

[27:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's why your performance in high school was spot on perfection.

[27:49] Kila Packett: It was literally agony for anyone that knew or loved Into the Woods.

[27:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like you missed the humor completely.

[27:57] Kila Packett: The other thing that's really interesting about this number and reveals something very unique about the show is that all of these different assassins come from all different parts of American history.

[28:05] Kila Packett: So you've got people dressed in Victorian garb, right next to people in 70s groovy gear, right next to people in white t-shirts and jeans.

[28:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yep.

[28:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[28:21] Kila Packett: I think one of the most interesting things about "Assassins" is how it manages to blend humor with such dark subject matter. It's a musical that takes a look at the lives of people who have attempted to assassinate American presidents, and yet it finds a way to make us laugh while also making us think deeply about the motivations behind these actions.

[28:51] Kila Packett: The characters are all so complex, and Sondheim's music really enhances that complexity. Each assassin has their own story, their own reasons for what they did, and the show doesn't shy away from exploring those reasons, even if they are uncomfortable.

[29:21] Kila Packett: I also love how the show plays with the idea of the American Dream. Each character is in some way chasing that dream, but they all end up in such dark places. It really raises questions about what the American Dream means and who it is truly accessible to.

[29:51] Kila Packett: And the way Sondheim uses music to reflect the characters' emotions is just brilliant. The score is so varied, with different styles that reflect the different time periods and personalities of the assassins. It keeps the audience engaged and adds layers to the storytelling.

[30:01] Kila Packett: There's also something really fascinating about the way the show interacts with the audience. It breaks the fourth wall in a way that makes you feel complicit in the story. You can't help but laugh at the absurdity of it all, even while grappling with the serious themes.

[30:11] Kila Packett: I think that’s part of what makes "Assassins" so unique. It’s not just a retelling of historical events; it’s a commentary on American society and the darker aspects of our culture. It forces us to confront uncomfortable truths while still being entertaining.

[30:31] Kila Packett: The humor is so dark and satirical, which can be jarring but also incredibly effective. It makes you question your own reactions to the material and what it says about our society's fascination with violence and notoriety.

[30:51] Kila Packett: I also appreciate how the show doesn’t glorify the assassins. It presents them as flawed individuals who made terrible choices, and it invites the audience to empathize with them without condoning their actions.

[31:01] Kila Packett: The character of John Wilkes Booth is particularly interesting because he embodies that conflict. He’s charismatic and compelling, but his actions are horrific. The show allows us to see him as a person, which makes the story even more complex.

[31:11] Kila Packett: And then you have characters like Lee Harvey Oswald, who are portrayed in a way that makes you question the circumstances that led him to that moment. It’s a powerful exploration of how societal factors can influence individual actions.

[31:31] Kila Packett: The staging and direction also play a huge role in how the story is told. The way the characters interact with each other and the audience creates a sense of chaos that mirrors the tumultuous nature of the events being depicted.

[31:41] Kila Packett: I think that’s why "Assassins" resonates so much with audiences. It’s not just a historical piece; it’s a reflection of our current society and the issues we still face today. It’s a reminder that history is not just a series of events, but a complex web of human experiences.

[31:51] Kila Packett: Plus, the music is just so catchy! Even with the heavy themes, you find yourself humming the tunes long after the show is over. It’s a testament to Sondheim’s genius that he can create such memorable melodies while tackling such serious subject matter.

[32:11] Kila Packett: I think the show challenges us to think critically about our own beliefs and the narratives we accept. It’s easy to dismiss these characters as villains, but "Assassins" encourages us to look deeper and understand the societal influences at play.

[32:31] Kila Packett: And that’s what makes it such a powerful piece of theatre. It’s not just about the assassins; it’s about the society that creates them. It’s a call to examine our own complicity in the systems that lead to violence and despair.

[32:41] Kila Packett: I think that’s why "Assassins" remains relevant today. The themes are timeless, and the questions it raises are ones we still grapple with as a society. It’s a musical that invites discussion and reflection, which is what great art should do.

[32:51] Kila Packett: And the fact that it can do all of this while still being entertaining is a remarkable achievement. It’s a show that stays with you long after you’ve seen it, and that’s a testament to its power.

[33:11] Kila Packett: I also love how the show incorporates elements of American history and culture. It’s a unique blend of fact and fiction that makes you reconsider what you think you know about these historical figures.

[33:31] Kila Packett: The way Sondheim weaves in historical context with personal stories creates a rich tapestry that makes the characters feel real and relatable, even if their actions are extreme.

[33:51] Kila Packett: It’s a reminder that history is often more complicated than we realize, and that the people involved are often driven by a mix of personal and societal factors.

[34:11] Kila Packett: I think that’s what makes "Assassins" such a compelling piece of theatre. It’s not just a story about violence; it’s a story about the human condition and the complexities of our society.

[34:21] Kila Packett: And the fact that it can provoke such strong reactions from audiences is a testament to its power. It’s a show that doesn’t shy away from difficult topics, and that’s something to be celebrated.

[34:31] Kila Packett: I think it’s important for musicals to tackle challenging subjects, and "Assassins" does that in a way that is both thought-provoking and entertaining.

[34:41] Kila Packett: It’s a reminder that theatre can be a powerful tool for social commentary and change, and that we should never underestimate its ability to spark important conversations.

[34:51] Kila Packett: I think that’s why I’m such a fan of Sondheim’s work. He has a unique ability to blend entertainment with deep, meaningful themes that resonate with audiences on multiple levels.

[35:01] Kila Packett: "Assassins" is a perfect example of that, and I’m so glad we’re able to discuss it today. It’s a show that deserves to be talked about and explored in depth.

[35:11] Kila Packett: And I hope that more people will take the time to engage with it and really think about what it has to say. It’s a musical that challenges us to look at ourselves and our society, and that’s something we all need to do.

[35:21] Kila Packett: So, if you haven’t seen "Assassins," I highly recommend it. It’s a powerful experience that will leave you with a lot to think about, and I think that’s what great theatre is all about.

[35:31] Kila Packett: And for those who have seen it, I hope this conversation has sparked some new thoughts and reflections on the show. It’s a rich text that offers so much to explore, and I’m grateful for the opportunity to dive into it with you.

[35:41] Kila Packett: Thank you for having me on to discuss this incredible musical. I always love talking about Sondheim and the impact of his work on theatre and society.

[35:51] Kila Packett: It’s been a pleasure to share my thoughts and insights, and I hope it encourages others to engage with "Assassins" and the important themes it presents.

[42:32] Kila Packett: Remember How to Fire a Gun or Where She Put It. I don't think many musicals did that to an audience. No, you don't point your gun at the audience. It's so unnerving. And then you follow it up with, everybody paying attention? Good. So that was definitely a very galvanizing moment. You know, regardless of what you think about gun rights in the country, or how we should regulate them, or if they should be regulated, the fact is, is that we are the king of guns. I have this little chart here in front of me from the BBC. It's called the Top 10 Civilian Gun Owning Countries. And it's from a survey called Small Arms Survey from 2018. It's firearms per 100 residents. I'll put this on our Instagram post.

The US has 120.5 guns per 100 residents. That's over one gun per resident. Wow. The next country is Yemen, which has 52. There's a little imbalance there. Yeah. Like I said, regardless of what you think we should do with the guns, it's undeniable that we have the most, and that comes with consequences. Wow. Hence the gun song. After the gun song, we have the Ballad of Sholgosh. We, of course, met him via Emma Goldman. Now he has his own song, The Balladeer Comes Back. This folk song is very Aaron Copland, some of those traditions in our American orchestral music. The whole idea behind this song is that the American dream is to get to the front of the line, that no matter where you may be, eventually you will get to the front of the line.

The irony there is that Sholgosh shot and killed President William McKinley by waiting in line to shake his hand, and eventually he got to the front of the line and then just shot him. Oh, Sondheim and your puns. I mean, how do they come up with these things? They're just... That's brilliant. Brilliant. Incredible. Yeah. I just love it. I mean, I love the whole... The Balladeer has to take a really deep breath, because he's like... Right. Can you do it? ...full of music by the Tower of Light, between the Fountain of Abundance and the Court of Lilies of the Great Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo. And the orchestration... I need everybody to go back and listen to the song. And after he sings, in Buffalo, you hear the violin, the fiddle go... And it's so great.

It's just so American. And I love that. Stephen Foster, Aaron Copland. Yeah. Loves it. Great song that gives way to a monologue now by Samuel Bick. It's this dude, he's dressed in a Santa suit. He looks like maybe a bad mall Santa Claus. And he's talking into like a recorder. Cassette tapes. Oh, what are those? For those who don't know, rewind the episode and listen to me talking about the Phantom of the Opera cassette tapes. And he's creating a cassette tape for his idol, Leonard Bernstein. Not making this up. This is real. It's a true story, folks. He was obsessed with Leonard Bernstein. This guy's certifiable. Deranged lunatic? Is that what you meant? Thank you. Thank you. I didn't want to be mean, but I guess you call it like you see it.

Sam Bick was a deranged lunatic. And from what I understand from Weidman is that he was the hardest one to find anything about. There was very, very little information about him and all that he was able to get, he had to like comb through newspaper articles to even find stuff about him. And for those that don't know, he made an attempt to hijack a plane and assassinate Nixon in the White House. I think that this is probably the story in 1990, people were like, who's this guy? How is this relevant? And then post 2001, we're like, is this maybe the most important part of the show? It's amazing how history and time can change different elements of the show. What he was saying to Leonard Bernstein is that he should compose more love songs because it will make people more compassionate and it will just make people less angry.

As he's screaming at him. Because it was Mario Cantone who I'm obsessed with. Yes, of course. I mean, he's fantastic. He has vocal cords that are probably hamburger meat at this point. But you should see Mario do his Carol Channing impression. There are videos. Good for him. That gives way to probably the most popular song from Assassins, which is called Unworthy of Your Love. And it sounds like a beautiful folk pop song that Stephen Schwartz would have written in the 70s for Pippin. Or Karen Carpenter. Yeah, totally. Totally Carpenters. It's being written by John Hinckley, who attempted to assassinate Ronald Reagan in order to win the love of one Miss Jodie Foster, two-time Academy Award-winning actor.

Like, I forget what a crazy life she has led. Yes, there are stalkers out there, folks. Don't forget the word fan comes from fanatic. Oh, good point. Gosh, dang it. They're out there. They are out there. He had seen her in Taxi Driver and he feels this need to prove his love. And so in the musical, he's like crafting this song. He's interrupted by Lynette Squeaky Fromme, who similarly tried to kill someone, not Reagan, Gerald Ford, in order to promote the ideologies of one Mr. Charlie Manson, mass murderer responsible for stabbing Sharon Tate, cult leader. She was so obsessed with him. Essentially, it thinks that he's the son of God. So these two individuals, these two assassins sing this beautiful love song that when you listen to the lyrics, it gets progressively more and more creepy.

Also, Sondheim comments about how Hinckley, yes, he was a bit deranged, but he had kind of an innocent obsession with Jodie Foster, right? And he wrote this simple love song for her. But Squeaky had a much darker, a much more experienced relationship with Charles Manson. At the very least. Yeah. So it's like these two different people with different experiences to violence. Yeah, absolutely. What is something that she says? Something about take my blood in my body. Yes. Take my blood in my body. And you're like, oh, yeah, yeah. Let me feel fire. Let me drink poison. Tell me to tear my heart in two. Yeah. And Annie Golden still can sing it like. OK, so Annie Golden was the original Frank Mills in Hair.

Yes, in Hair. And then she originated this role off-Broadway in 1990. Was she really? She was reluctant to accept this role because she was like kind of a cool hippie. That was like her vibe. That was like what she was known for. And she didn't want to really be known for like this darker, violent person. And then her agent was like, all right, well, if you don't want to work with Stephen Sondheim and John Weidman, we'll just say you're going to pass. And she's like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry. Yeah, for sure. For those who still don't know her, but maybe have watched Orange is the New Black. She was one of the inmates, the one that Norma that didn't ever talk. She only like communicated by writing.

But she was a they did have her sing like at the end of season two or something like that. She's one of those actresses. That's not a household name, but she's incredibly gifted and quirky and a character actress and has had a has had real longevity. She was also in The Full Monty on Broadway. It's a woman's world. Yeah, I saw that three times. Did you? I did. From different vantage points. With that, well, I saw it in the front row the first time and I did see The Full Monty. And then I saw it again over and over again. And then when I got to meet Annie Golden in the subway ride, we rode all the way to Brooklyn. She was still living with her parents. Wait, hold on. OK, so is this your Annie Golden story?

My Annie Golden story. I saw something else. I think I had seen I can't remember what it was. I had seen a musical and I was coming home and she was also coming home. I lived in Clinton Hill at the time, which was you take the C train all the way through Brooklyn into like Fort Greene and Clinton Hill. And it's probably like a 45-minute subway ride. And she lived down like near Bensonhurst, which is probably an hour ride on the subway. And she was still living with her parents. Not that it's like a bad thing. I think she was just living with her parents. And from 42nd Street all the way down to Wall Street, which is about 25 minutes, we sat next to each other and I showed her the musical that I saw and we went through it and she was like, oh, that's my friend.

Oh, I love her. Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, we sat, you know, knee to knee on the train for at least 25 minutes. And she's just so down to earth and so adorable. Yeah, so that's my Annie Golden story. How cute. Yeah, yeah. All right, after Unworthy of Your Love, we get a really great scene between Sarah Jane Moore and Gatot, which we haven't even talked about, and who is like the eternal optimist in this show. He, in kind of a creepy way, is just is like so energetic and happy about life. That gives way to his song, Charles Gatot's song called Ballad of Gatot. And it follows the tradition of like a revival spiritual type song. Who did he kill? I forget. He killed Garfield. Yeah. James Garfield. James Garfield.

Yeah. In 1881. And then and then he died in 82. He kind of went through all of these different occupations as a human being. He was an attorney. He was an author. He was a preacher. And his next big goal was he wanted to be the next ambassador to France. France, right. And he was so upset that that wasn't going to happen that he decided to take out the president. And so he kills James Garfield. And Sondheim has written him the song where he literally gets to cakewalk up the steps to then be hung singing, I'm going to the Lordy. I am going to the Lordy. Sorry, folks. I'm so glad I'm going to the Lordy. I'm so glad I'm going to the Lordy. Glory, hallelujah. Glory, hallelujah. Which seems kind of silly.

But these were actually taken from Guiteau's personal records. It was a poem that he thought that children were going to sing in his honor. I had seen I saw Dennis O'Hare, brilliant Dennis O'Hare do it. Has he ever not been brilliant? What an incredible performer. Oh, my God. I saw him in Take Me Out, which he won the Tony for. But I also saw Jonathan Hadari, who originated the role at Playwrights. So I saw Jonathan Hadari in the first national tour of Angels in America. He played Roy Cohn. He played Roy Cohn. He played Roy Cohn. This is I was just I was in college. It's like 1996 in Lincoln, Nebraska. There were picketers outside the Lied Center. I mean, it was just like an event. Oh, my God.

To this day, his performance as Roy Cohn is one of the top performances I've seen live. That's so cool. Yeah, good for him. Say his name one more time. Brilliant. Jonathan Hadari. In the original. That's so cool. I'm glad you shared that. I will share with you that my connection to Roy Cohn is an insane play that I did in Los Angeles in which I played the dancing nonverbal version of who Roy Cohn wished he could have been. Why did I miss this? How did I miss this? They had me in my underwear. It was a bizarre little show. Well, Roy would have loved that. I'm sure that would have loved that performance and then probably would have taken me out like assassin style afterward. After Ballad of Gatot, which ends with his hanging, we get the funniest scene in the entire show.

It's Sarah Jane and Squeaky both trying to kill Gerald Ford because their assassinations were both attempts on Gerald Ford. Neither were successful, but they were like only 17 days apart from each other. And what's incredible is Gerald Ford still decided to go out into public after those 17 days after having two attempts on his life. I mean, it was the 70s. Come on, like, come on, like everything was a little looser. The hair was longer. The assassination.

[56:43] Kila Packett: Fresh air, but it's the kind of smells good. Yeah, it's why it works so well as a review though, is because it would be impossible to write, I think, a traditional narrative with this idea in mind. You need the rise and fall of these different production numbers with the dark and darkly comedic and silly tone of these different scenes. Otherwise, it's just not going to be a pleasurable evening at the theater. And that's what we want: pleasurable moments in the theater. I mean, sometimes I do, most of the time I don't. I'm not there for the escapism of it. I'm there to dig deep and to, you know, have some type of cathartic, enlightening feeling.

[57:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely. I completely agree. I will also say, however, that I tried to watch this show on Amazon called *Them*. Have you watched it?

[57:56] Kila Packett: I haven't, not yet. It's on my list. It looks freaky.

[58:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, and I'm not turned off by freaky at all, nor am I turned off by discomfort. I can take it. That show is almost trauma porn.

[58:13] Kila Packett: Oh, wow. I feel like that show is what *Assassins* could have been if it wasn't for these hills and valleys. It makes me feel really guilty to say that because it's about the suffering of Black people in suburbia. So maybe I don't even get to have an opinion on it. But that was my experience.

[58:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. Well, I'll get back to you on that.

[58:36] Kila Packett: Yeah. Watch it and then let me know what you think. I'm really interested.

[58:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Cool. After that scene, once again, we have introduced the Balladeer who's offering kind of a hopeful, simplistic view of these different situations. And that really comes to a head in the next number, which is called "Another National Anthem," where you basically have the assassins versus the Balladeer. He's trying to maybe be more moralistic, and they are shooting him down, pardon the pun, at every chance they get to say this dream of yours that you say is for everyone isn't true because it's not working for us.

[59:12] Kila Packett: And another thing, which is also very shocking for the audience, is that the stage goes dark and then the stage lights come up and then we find ourselves in the Texas Book Depository and we see the figure of Lee Harvey Oswald. And the audience almost has forgotten all about Oswald by this point. And they're kind of really shocked to see, oh my goodness, their heart really starts to pound because we all know what's about to happen.

[59:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I have chills. Obviously, it was true. Yeah. Obviously, it's chilling to see the footage that we've seen of JFK and Jackie in the car there in Dallas. But it's also chilling to see it from the point of view of the actual criminal. Originally in 1990, you know, Lee Harvey Oswald was his own character. And what I think is so brilliant is in 2004, they had the Balladeer turn into Lee Harvey Oswald. I just think that's so, so smart, specifically coming out of "Another National Anthem." It's almost like their voices have overtaken, and now we're left with this lone assassin, right? This guy who is at rock bottom. He thinks that he's going to commit suicide until John Wilkes Booth appears, followed by all of the other assassins who say, no, no, no, your name deserves to be on the walls of history, just like ours. And by doing this, our lives will have meant more as well because you're like carrying on our tradition in some weird way. It's pretty powerful stuff.

[1:01:12] Kila Packett: Yeah, it's a big one. The other really incredible thing about the 2004 revival is that when Lee Harvey Oswald makes the decision to then shoot JFK, you know, he's so synonymous with that white t-shirt. After he shoots, he turns around and in an act of like projection genius, they project that footage of JFK being assassinated on his white shirt, live for everybody in the audience. At that time, coup de théâtre, as they call it, had not really been experimented much. You know, that was kind of like, oh, the Europeans are doing like video projections and stuff like that. So that was a very palpable moment as well.

[1:02:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: After the assassination of JFK, there's a song that isn't always done in the show called "Something Broke," in which we see different vignettes of quote unquote, regular Americans who express what it feels like to receive the information that your president has been shot. It wasn't written until the London premiere at the Donmar Warehouse, directed by Sam Mendes, who suggested, yeah, I heard of him. He suggested, you know, I feel like there's a song missing. I feel like we're not getting the perspective of those people that were indirectly affected, right? And so that's when they wrote this song, "Something Broke," because it's giving a voice to, you know, where were you? I remember my aunt, it's funny because my dad, my parents, my dad and my aunt, they were in Lincoln, Nebraska.

My dad was in, he was a sophomore, I think he was in English class. And my aunt said that day, she was sick, and she had stayed home and was watching it. So, you know, everyone's experience is different. And we always remember that. And I think that's why this piece, which I think some people could take it or leave it, I feel like it's giving the audience a breath to kind of collect themselves and reassess what's happened. But in some cases, do they need that? I mean, let's just barrel through it.

[1:04:02] Kila Packett: Sure. So I think Sondheim and Weidman, they appreciate the piece, and they want it to be a part of it. The most poignant part of this song, for me, is the fleeting nature of it. Because they say over and over again, it's just a moment. It's just a brief moment. But in that moment, you feel like something broke. And I know that that is what I feel like collectively, we're all experiencing with all of these mass shootings, is that you hear about it. And for a brief moment, you go, oh, my heart's broken again. But then you have to move on.

[1:04:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yep. And unfortunately, that kind of gives way to the pattern, the cycle of behavior that just keeps repeating itself.

[1:04:49] Kila Packett: It is, it's sad. And this is when the sadness really starts to seep in.

[1:05:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, you're so right. Because I think that the really the impetus of "Something Broke" is like that collective grievance. And I see, especially now when we're talking about, let's say, you know, the attack on the US Capitol on January 6, there's like a collective sadness there.

[1:05:22] Kila Packett: Yeah.

[1:05:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That we can't deny. And everybody wants there to be hope. And yes, everybody wants there to be progress. But what *Assassins* can do in the future, because this is always going to be a contemporary piece, is it will allow us to sit and grieve together. You know, the old Greek cathartic point of theater to begin with is to like collectively, as an audience, you know, as a community, hold up the mirror to society and comment on it.

[1:05:53] Kila Packett: That's just so important. I'm sitting here listening to you and thinking about how isolated so many of us have felt over the past year and a half. And one of the things we need so desperately to move through it is to grieve together, to experience things together. And in many ways, that has been taken away from us from the pandemic, whether it's not being able to attend church or not being able to attend the theater, whatever your ritual of choice may be. It just proves to me how essential those moments of gathering are.

[1:06:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Totally. That just leaves us with the last little reprise of "Everybody's Got the Right." What I'm left with after the show is sadness, if I'm being totally honest. And when you said like, that is the moment when sadness starts to seep in. It doesn't leave me for the rest of the show. I remember when Osama bin Laden was killed. And I've shared this with people before. But I remember online seeing that there were parties to celebrate it. And look, I totally understand that he was a symbol of fear and terror for an entire generation. But it made me so sad to be celebrating the death of one of our own because he's still human, right? And it's okay to sit in that sadness. We don't do that forever. I mean, this is one piece.

[1:07:20] Kila Packett: Yeah, absolutely.

[1:07:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The comet is. And I think that's important because there aren't many, especially pieces of musical theater. You know, it's historical fiction for the most part, but it's still history. And it's still theatrical. It all kind of comes together, this little moment in history, which is known as *Assassins*. Because of the music, you're so right. This show is able to celebrate what makes America special and also contemplate what the tragedies are because of it.

[1:07:52] Kila Packett: Yes, thank you for articulating what I could not really figure out.

[1:07:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, no.

[1:07:57] Kila Packett: I got there somehow.

[1:07:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You did. You 100% did. Thank you so much, Kila. I've had a really great time.

[1:08:04] Kila Packett: Wow, this is fun and, you know, thought-provoking.

[1:08:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For sure.

[1:08:09] Kila Packett: But really like super, I hate the word relevant, but, you know, it's current.

[1:08:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:08:15] Kila Packett: I'll just say it's current and will continue to be current. And I urge everybody to go out and don't go out and buy a gun. Go out and buy *Assassins*.

[1:08:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now available on iTunes, everybody's got the right to some music.

[1:08:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on *A Musical Theatre Podcast*, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast@gmail.com. Be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @amusicalpodcast. And please join our Patreon fam where you're getting exclusive content as a thank you for supporting this show. That's patreon.com/backslashamusicalpodcast. We've also got our T Public Store. I mean, there's so many opportunities to participate in *A Musical Theatre Podcast*, and we're happy to have you here.

[1:09:05] Kila Packett: Hey, Jeffrey, how do we follow you and everything you're up to?

[1:09:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I'm on Instagram. I'm postethnic. That's P-O-S-T-E-C-H-N-I-C.

[1:09:18] Kila Packett: Can you explain the handle? I'm interested. Why did you pick that?

[1:09:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, when I was younger, I was like, because I'm mixed race. My mom's from Hawaii, my dad's from Nebraska. And I was kind of like, he's gorgeous.

[1:09:29] Kila Packett: Well, I'm like the future. I'm like, oh, thank you. I'm like the future, right? So it's like postethnic. But now, I might change it because I think we all need to stand in our own identities, right? And really kind of advocate for, look, Hawaiian representation, Asian American representation, etc., etc., etc. So as of now, I'm postethnic.

[1:09:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: On Instagram, I'm also @kilapackett on Twitter. And I'm also co-producer for *A Little New Music*, which is a small little concert where we champion new musical theater writers and performers. And that Instagram is @alittlenewmusic. Thank you so much, Jeffrey. This has just been an absolute joy. I could talk about Sondheim for ages.

[1:10:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: My pleasure. Someone tell the story.

[1:10:16] Kila Packett: Thank you, everybody, for listening. I appreciate you. Jeffrey, take us out with a couple bars of your favorite.

[1:10:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, gosh, working man born in the middle of Michigan woke with a thought in a way he ran to the Pan American Exposition at Buffalo. Yeah!