This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Meg Bussert: Agnes de Mille hired dancers who act. She did. And she also hired men and women who didn't have the stereotypic dancer body. They weren't heavy, but the women did have shape. They had some shape. And the men were not all tall and lanky, and they all were astounding dancers. They looked like people.

[0:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theatre history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, we are discussing the musical Brigadoon with someone—and this is me casually dropping the mic here—who was Tony nominated for it. Yes. As Fiona McLaren, she was Tony nominated for Best Performance by a Leading Actress in a Musical. She has an upcoming performance on September 6th at 54 Below as part of the All-Star lineup for Charles Kirsch's Backstage Babble Live, who, by the way, is a fellow podcaster. She's also an amazing educator. I'm so thrilled she's here. Everyone, please welcome Meg Bussert.

[1:21] Meg Bussert: Thank you, Jeff. It's good to be here. I do have to have one caveat here. I was Fiona in the 1980 revival, not the 1947 original. That did come up a few times.

[1:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That is a fair clarification. I mean, that would just be full miracle. If you were in the '47 production, then that means you went into Brigadoon and this is the one day where you have come back. Yes. But yes, thank you for the clarification. The 1980s revival, which is, thanks to you, I did not know this, is all on YouTube and it's really a lovely recording. I don't know who snuck their camera into that theater, but it looks great.

[2:11] Meg Bussert: Yeah, and it's been there for a while. I think it's there because it's a part of history because it was never recorded in any other fashion and it really captures the Agnes de Mille choreography, which is stunning. And I think that's the reason. It's a research thing, kind of.

[2:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. It's such a great tool and window into our history. Anyway, thank you so much for coming on. It's really such an honor for me. We've covered a couple of Lerner and Loewe shows on the podcast, Camelot, My Fair Lady, and I highly recommend our listeners to go back and listen to those if they haven't. But this is the first time we're covering an L&L with someone who performed them on Broadway and perhaps knew them. I'm not sure.

[2:53] Meg Bussert: Yeah. So tell me, tell me about your relationship with Lerner and Loewe and how Brigadoon came along.

[3:00] Meg Bussert: So mostly with Alan Jay Lerner. My equity card came into my life when I ran away from the Midwest. I was something like four points shy of my degree, but ran out of money, ran out of money. And I came to New York to be the next Julie Andrews, you know, but that was the plan. I mean, congratulations because I would say success.

[3:24] Meg Bussert: Yeah. So I actually went back and got several degrees later, you know. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. I finished and got, went on, but that's why I ended up teaching at NYU. Anyway. Yeah. So my equity card came with that wonderful show Lolita, My Love, which is a musical version, John Barry and Alan Jay Lerner musicalizing Nabokov's Lolita. Perfect, isn't it? Perfect. I mean, why on earth would we want to see a musical about teenage rape? But like, honestly, I was 21. I got in the chorus in those days. It was a very strong chorus, you know, singers and dancers, you know, you didn't do one other thing, just skating your little thing. But it was, I learned so much and we'd had two horrible out of town tryouts and then they came back and rewrote and tried to do it.

It failed and it shouldn't. But we were in either Boston or Philadelphia, the two big tryout towns. And there was a place called the Variety Club, which stayed open for singers and dancers. Anybody doing a show in these wonderful tryout towns, it was catered to the theater people. So there might be two or three shows trying out at the same time. Anyway, Alan would go and so would John Barry and they would sit there and they were very approachable. We would sit there, you know, and I mean, we were all gobsmacked. Of course, the loyalty. I grew up listening to all the vinyls and I knew all the things. And I think I had done a really terrible production for the dude in high school, I'm sure, because I had stories to talk. Anyway, he would sit there.

[5:02] Meg Bussert: He would tell stuff. He would tell stories and remind me because I have something he told me specifically about Brigadoon. I had a Brigadoon question, just because I had this question. He answered me and it was an astounding, informative thing that happened later. So anyway, I knew him from that. The next thing I encountered him in was the Brigadoon and then Camelot a year later and worked with him on that.

[5:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That was just a year later.

[5:22] Meg Bussert: Yeah, it was about a year and a half later. It was something like that.

[5:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: With Richard Harris, right?

[5:26] Meg Bussert: Yeah. And then I did a PBS song to Alan Taylor and I came on and sang a song for Brigadoon with Richard White. Oh, and then there was this backers audition for Teddy and Alice, which was...

[5:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[5:40] Meg Bussert: Yes, and Alan was kind of producing that kind of quietly. We did three years of the backers audition. Brilliant music written to John Philip Sousa. Borrowed from that. And it was musically so much fun. By the time they capitalized it, they decided I was too old to play Alice, so they hired someone else and it flopped and I was so sad. So they then decided to record it and they called me to come in and sing because nobody saw me.

[6:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Not too old to sing.

[6:10] Meg Bussert: They just saw me. So anyway.

[6:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Go figure.

[6:14] Meg Bussert: So I got to know him on a nice personal... He was a brilliant man. The way he could handle lyrics has always astounded me, listening to how the many levels that he would write for. And he was always very generous. You couldn't not do it right. If you had a different take, you might get a little note, I think you should try this, or I really appreciated that. And when he would come in and check on the show, I would always get a note back, and I would beg, I can understand every word. He was one of the few brilliant, brilliant composers. We have a lot of great composers. He was up there at a time with Lorenz Hart and Cole Porter. And they all knew each other. They all worked together. They all respected each other. So it was truly a community of creatives.

[7:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. And I mean, at this point, Frederick Loewe didn't have much to do with him anymore, right?

[7:11] Meg Bussert: Right. Yes, he did. I think he was on top of it a little bit. For Brigadoon particularly, there was going to be a bit of rewriting. And at that, of course, he was also the librettist. And so when Vivian Matalon came in, Vivian being the Meisner director, had so many questions as to some of the buildups and some of the storytelling aspects. Storytelling was a little bit different. It was beginning to be brilliant. It was brilliant in the 40s, but compared to where it went, those were the beginnings.

[7:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, the art form, how it had evolved, for sure.

[7:49] Meg Bussert: And so Vivian coming at it 20 years later is going, this could be better. And so actually, Alan did give him permission. When he made some changes, it was kind of understood that Alan didn't like it, but it was okay. Do you know what I mean? He was going to let it go because he understood a new look at it. Yeah. He was open enough for that, but it was interesting because the day he came to see the show, he came back to talk to all of us and we were, does he like it? Does he like it? And we were like, we don't know. He never told us.

[8:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting. How cool. I find this period of musical theater really interesting. The early 80s, specifically with revivals, because it seems like we were all trying to grapple with our sense of history and what was really popular in Broadway's heyday. And how does that apply to a new audience? Do we just present it exactly as it was before to try and capture that magic? Do we revive it in a revisal sort of way? It really is the transitionary period between, let's just do Pajama Game like we've always done Pajama Game, and in the 90s when we really start seeing true revisions at musicals.

[9:07] Meg Bussert: Yeah, I think you're right. The questions started coming up in the 70s. And the other thing that was going on was the youth musical, the rock musical. And the traditionalists were shocked. Kids loved it. We all loved it. We thought it was great fun. And we did think that when we were doing a revival, it was a bit old-fashioned. But it was kind of can't beat some of that singing. Storytelling maybe wasn't as deep as you might have wanted it, but it was there. So it was there to be discovered. And then you could say some of the more contemporary pieces at the time were not actually brilliant stories either, but they were a reflection of the enthusiasm and the other look, the new look.

[9:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's a really good point. It's more emotional than maybe plot heavy or plot driven. What's that one? Hamlet? Rockabye Hamlet. That was my favorite. I'm a big Shakespearean maiden. I discovered Shakespeare in seventh grade. And I think that's one of the reasons why, as an active singer, I was always more interested in the words than the music. When I went to teach in college, I was not teaching voice. I was teaching acting. And acting without...

[10:24] Meg Bussert: Because I thought, I knew that young acting singers needed to understand acting and needed to be able to move what an actor does into the complications of music and dance.

[10:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And interpreting the text within all of that.

[10:42] Meg Bussert: Yeah. And Shakespeare kind of did it. He sort of wrote it. He wrote it. And if you can handle a speech of Shakespeare, you can handle a musical song. That's fine.

[10:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That is a great quote. I'm stealing it.

[10:57] Meg Bussert: I have a little workshop that I could give you. I do. I put that together. Yes.

[11:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That would be incredible.

[11:04] Meg Bussert: It's working on a Shakespeare monologue and then taking a solo Shakespeare song. Oh, sure.

[11:09] Meg Bussert: Yeah. The structure and the argument. Like, will he like me when we meet? Oh, that's a great one with a Shakespeare monologue. Or could be, who knows? There's something due any day. Another great one. Shakespeare. I just got chills. We mentioned She Loves Me, everybody.

[11:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All right. So Brigadoon. I know we haven't covered Oklahoma yet on the podcast, which seems crazy, but there are just some monumental shows that I want to say for the future. And that's one of them. But Brigadoon is, I feel like, really, really proof of just how monumental Oklahoma was. Lerner and Loewe had written three shows prior to Brigadoon. The first closed before it ever got to Broadway. The second and third were met with okay success. But I couldn't tell you a thing about them. And then Oklahoma hits. And it's almost like being in love. No, just kidding. It's almost like they unlocked the secret to what would become musical theater. And I know this is when people start throwing around subgenres like musical play and musical comedy.

But for the sake of this podcast, I'm just calling it musical theater. Anyway, so Lerner and Loewe aren't stupid. They see what works about Oklahoma and apply it to what they bring to the art form. And that's kind of the birth of Brigadoon. So what do you think some of their hallmarks are, having lived in both Camelot and Brigadoon?

[12:31] Meg Bussert: In Lerner and Loewe? Lerner especially was fascinated with other than this time and other than this place. So Brigadoon actually comes from, I believe, a German legend. It might be even the Celtic Germania, whatever it was. People connect it with Irish and Scottish, but it was all over northern Europe. So anyway, this was one of those stories. And if you look at the story of Brigadoon, which is this town goes to sleep for 100 years and wakes up and lives one day. But in its time, which would have been Brigadoon, it would have been 1747. The priest or the minister of the town is being overrun by demons, creatures of evil. And they're going to do in the town. They're going to take them over, enslave them or annihilate them. Something bad is going to happen and it's not identified. But in order to save the town.

[13:32] Meg Bussert: The minister has to make a deal with God, and he just simply says, take me and yours and free my people or whatever, protect us. Save us. Yeah. So, uh, so that, you know, we can connect that to a lot of stories we know, but that's what happens. So the minister goes off into the mountains and hills, disappears. Brigadoon is under a spell. It goes to sleep for a hundred years. It wakes up again, I guess, in 1847. And then it goes to sleep. But it's still operating in this other time. Yes. It's only two days later. And, uh, so that's, that's the premise of it. So, um, Camelot's the same thing. Camelot is a legend. Um, some of it's true. Some of it's not. A lot of it is, you know, but when you're dealing again with, uh, you know, the fairies and the Co-Celtic kind of the magic and the mystery, which was terribly important, uh, you know, and again, in Fair Lady you're dealing with the transformation, you know, and, uh, you know, but they're all, they challenge your imagination, all of the stories. Yes. That's something that they've really captured. Uh, and, and that's, that's a lot of Mr. Lerner. He's just in there. Anyway. Wow. So that's, that's Lerner.

[14:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Where do you, uh, cause I never had a conversation with, with Mr. Lerner. Where does his prose come from? He's so, he's so famous for these types of songs that like, um, there but for you go I, or I've grown accustomed to her face or on the street where like these lyrics that I feel like no one else could write except for him. Um, is there a formality to his and, and a poetry that is very specifically his?

[15:10] Meg Bussert: I think his, his love of words, his love of, um, Anglophile, you know, I'm sure Shakespeare and Gilbert and Sullivan had a lot to do with a lot of the cleverness of what he did. But I think that the songs express a deep human emotion and he allows his characters to really get pissed if the actor singers will, will do that because I've grown accustomed to her face, which is a lovely sweet song starts with damn, damn, damn, damn, damn. Okay. Yeah. And, uh, there, but for you go I starts with Fiona and, and the way it was originally done, you know, did he, I know Tommy that you're all I'm living for. Very sweet, very whatever. And then we decided through Vivian's working that she's pissed. She's finally found someone.

Uh, and, and he's gonna go, how dare you? So we, they'd actually changed the orchestration. I'm like, you know, just screaming. Yeah. And that gave him, I mean, it was there. It's just, that wasn't how they presented it. You know, 47, probably a big month in front of screaming, but I didn't mind. Um, the, uh, you know, and that pushes Tommy into no, no, no. Um, I will never forget you because I was lost. I was on the verge of committing suicide. I was whatever. I was not going to be able to live. I don't know what's facing me when I go home, but I know I can't stay here. Wow. And that's all he's saying. But all of those songs have, you know, in Brigadoon, when she comes out and where are the simple joys of maidenhood.

Yeah. The night's killing me. Where's the night finding. So for me, he leaps to death. I mean, every girl should have that, you know, and, and it's so brilliant. You know, she's 15 years old. She's had, she's been so closed up, protected. He gives voice or he gives words to the marvelous human imagination. And yes, I think in many, maybe that was one of the things that got me cast is because I never came in as a little soprano. I always came in with, I'm the oldest of seven children and I came in with that. I am truly, I mean, there was a lot of noise in my family and you know, we were all good people, but boy, we can be noisy with it. And I think that, you know, that works well for so many of those women written in the forties and fifties.

They were very strong women, but, um, well I gotta give you a compliment because I watched the, your performance. And first of all, you sound glorious. Like it just sounds like that's where you live, like walking around in comfy house slippers and this soprano role. And then you do have this strength that is so important, I think for younger generations to see that singing a soprano role does not mean not being strong or, or singing beautifully does not mean that you are apologetic for your stage presence. It really is kind of a masterclass.

[18:09] Meg Bussert: Well, thank you. But it's also in singing, singing the old song, the old shows doesn't mean you're, you're any less strong. You know, when I was teaching that my students constantly, Oh, one of the old things. Yeah. Okay. So show me what's inside one of the old things. Do it. You know, and then really I can do that. Yeah, you can do that. So it's, um, terribly important to, um, again, it's, it's an active thing. And both Vivian and, and when, especially when I was working in Camelot with Harris, cause he wasn't the easiest person, shall we say? Um, I, I was far too energetic for him because I was American. I was basically American and he wanted something else, but I think it was, we were told by others that it was our frustration made it work. You know what I mean?

[19:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at least you had some sort of fire.

[19:02] Meg Bussert: Oh yeah. Yeah. And it wasn't just like each other, but we just, I could see I was frustrating him and I just wasn't going to change. So in a nice way. But so, uh, I learned from those shows, I think a lot about, um, uh, the inner, the energy that's inside that doesn't have to come out. Because as you can see from, well, we're talking now and you're looking at me being a little energetic when I thought that comes out in all of my work initially. And then you find how you can put that inside. I did a lot of work studying the Michael Chekhov work approach to acting. And he's very physical and, uh, imagine it, imagine the tip. And one of the tools is the psychological gesture. You work out, you know, the gesture that you really want to do physically with the material.

And then you put it all inside, which is something actors do all the time. So I was sitting on top of all of my energy and it literally drove me crazy initially. And I would always be getting, yes, that's it. Yes, that's it. But I'm going to go. Oh, that's good. And you should, but don't, and so the audience reads that they read that dynamism within you and they interpret it in the story. They don't interpret it as, Oh, Meg's going crazy today. She really wants to jump and scream. They say, Oh, Marian's really upset about the situation. Guinevere is about to explode or whatever the character might be. They interpret it within the story.

[20:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: This is so cool. I, I love when episodes surprise me and I hadn't expected this tie to the to to almost the classical nature of this show, which is surprising because I do feel like this is a piece of classical musical theater. But, um, what, what a beautiful opportunity for us to see how much is inside these older pieces.

[20:51] Meg Bussert: Oh, it's, it's stunning. And it gives a line. And I think that's what, you know, Hammerstein learned from his father. Hammerstein did all this stuff. Hammerstein taught Sondheim. Sondheim taught Lin-Manuel Miranda. I mean, there's, we can go and find so many links that, uh, you know, it's you do pass on, you do pass things on and whether you want to do it or not, you have to recognize the art and the craft. It's a beautiful line. And the more I do this show, the more I'm just so grateful for it.

[21:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So now going back to what was to Oklahoma's influence on Brigadoon and we've got like the, the serious romantic relationship between Fiona and Tommy. We'll also talk about the secondary one, which is kind of the Will Parker 80 Annie, uh, plot line. And, um, but maybe most literally the thing that Lerner and Lowe took from Oklahoma was Agnes DeMille, who was the choreographer and maybe the reason Oklahoma was so groundbreaking because the, this choreography that bridged the dramatic, uh, narrative with the music, with the acting. I mean, you can't overstate it. And she is also who originally staged Brigadoon and the revival that you did. So talk to me about Ms. DeMille. Cause, and, and was she, how was she health wise at this point?

[22:14] Meg Bussert: She was about 72. She walked on a, she had a walker. It's a lot of injuries with her dancing gaze and stuff, but she was so sharp and she was amazing. Uh, the dancers of course, um, rehearsed separately from us. So when they came in to show their stuff, we were all like, uh, Ms. DeMille walked into the room and everybody got quiet. Yeah. Everybody got to watch, you know, and it was, you know, I vowed at that time that when I was growing older, got to her age, I wanted to be eccentric and I wanted everyone to be quiet when I walked in the room. No, that didn't happen, but I did want to be, um, the eccentric part. Yeah, that happened, I think. Yeah, that's, yeah. Good point. Um, but she, uh, in Oklahoma, I think, uh, and, and Hammerstein wasn't thrilled with her work initially, actually.

Yeah. Uh, first time he saw the Dream Valley, he went, why? And Agnes was when she saw the show and she, you know, got the Kansas city, she could do all that. Having the girls all dance in the beginning on any new day and all these kinds of things was fine, but she saw something in Lori's, um, situation. She saw something, which was pretty strongly presented with Judd having a fixation on Lori. And you know, what kind of sickness was that? And how is Curly really going to handle it? Curly doesn't get it until Curly walks into his shed and then Curly goes, okay, we got a problem. We got a problem. Uh-huh. Other, you know, before that he was just an obnoxious in the way guy, but okay, he's a sicko.

And you know, I've got two, an old lady and a young lady over here living next to them and they need some help. So this, all of this comes up, but she saw, um, the confusion in Lori, a young, a young girl. So she created, uh, an imaginary out of my dreams, supposedly about she and Curly, but in her dreams, as we all dream our psychology pops in and the strangest things come to the foreground in our dreams that why did I do that? You know, and that's what she wanted to present.

[24:12] Meg Bussert: So she presented a what if situation where, uh, Judd wins a woman's perspective on what if she loses, what if the situation gets out? And what if Curly can't save her? What if this guy wins, you know, and who are these dance hall girls? Are they, you know, the little devils that dance around? So she created this marvelous story, which initially the actors couldn't dance. So they had to have, uh, you know, a stand in. So it became the whole dream. Ballet became in her imagination and it was astounding in all of her work. She's consistent with taking something and then telling a story in the dance associated with the song, but not necessarily about the song. About the song. Ooh, this is great.

That is great. You know, and so, um, that was another element. I mean, Agnes DeMille is so good at like clear and simple storytelling, and she uses a lot of repetition to do it. A lot of ballet technique and then also surprisingly emotional dance vocabularies. All of a sudden you'll see, I'm not, I know we're like doing a visual medium right now. Not helpful for the listeners, but you, but you do some, you'll see the dancer do some gesture that doesn't, that feels psychological to use your world. Um, it's a, it's a psychological manifestation of this emotional inner world.

[25:33] Meg Bussert: And, um, and so it's, so it's this really iconic combination of simplicity, ballet, and then these surprising little pieces of vocabulary. You know, as I was thinking about what we were going to talk about to me, Vivian Madelon put together the acting, he put together the words, whether they were song or spoken, she directed the words. For example, uh, come to me, bend to me, which he comes in and sings this glorious thing. And then she's saying, leave, you know, go away. I have to come out and they can't see me today. So he finally does leave and then the women come out and she comes out and she has her little moment and, and it's, she's surrounded by her, you know, her bridesmaids. Yeah. They're all around there.

And she's dancing with an, again, it's a psychological expression of the fear of getting married. Um, you know, loving this man. Um, it's been a complicated thing cause there was this other person who I kind of like, I don't hate him, but I don't love him. You know, so this is, uh, her all that stories. That's what Agnes did. She told the psychological story that wasn't in the play. And by the time she got to Brigadoons, they, she was trusted enough, I guess, or strong enough that she was able to take each one of these songs and then turn it around to a different story. So it wasn't him dancing with her about come to me, bend to me or even him dancing alone. He, he gave the, I love you. I can't wait to see you. And why do I have to go away? Okay, I'll go. And then she comes out and dances.

[27:04] Meg Bussert: Well, she dances her feelings as opposed to making it a duet. This has already been so amazing. Now, and we've already talked a lot about the plot, but let's actually go through the show. And I'll just give people who may not know what Brigadoon is all about, we'll go through the bones of it. So the show begins with two characters, Tommy and Jeff, and they're lost. They're lost. They can't figure out where they are. Jeff's fine with it. He's like, are you kidding me? What a beautiful place to be lost in. And Tommy, I feel like it's, it's kind of triggering to him because he feels lost in his own life as well. And so like, this is just too much. I'm literally lost and also feeling lost. He's engaged to a woman back in New York.

By the way, we're in Scotland. I don't know if I mentioned that. Good heavens. Highlands. And as they're talking about this, this feeling of unrest that he has, they hear this music growing, this chorus singing of Brigadoon. And slowly but surely, this town comes to life. And of course, we know that we've already discussed the magic of this town. So I tell you my Alan Jay Lerner, are we there now? Yes, please, please. Okay. So my question to Alan was, clearly Tommy isn't assimilating in his life. He's unhappy. He's romantic. A lot of different descriptions for him, but something's not right. Jeff is on his way to being an alcoholic. He's well on his way. Yes. And so they, they're buddies, you know, and they take trips together.

In the original, they were hunting. So they had guns. In the revival, they're hiking. So they had backpacks. So that was a big change. Wow. And that, but that worked. So it's the once in the Highlands, two weary hunters, two weary travelers lost away. That's the intro. So, but I said, why are Jeff and Tommy friends? They're just so different. And he said, oh, well, this was 1947. And you know, World War II had only been over a couple of years. They were war buddies. Wow. And they were coming back. And like so many American young men, they, they were not able to assimilate. Jeff is drinking to figure out his problems. Tommy is just kind of lost. He's engaged to a woman he doesn't really love, doesn't know.

And all of a sudden he needs this energy. And Fiona is not a shy young woman. She's a very strong young lady. And he just is kind of blown away. So the fact that they were vets, you know, whether or not they were in the same, like my brain had, had Tommy being a Lieutenant and Jeff being the Sergeant. I mean, that's sort of where I saw their energies. Yeah. But when that was explained, all of a sudden their bond became so, which is why Tommy... That unlocks a piece, man, doesn't it? Tommy can understand the alcoholism and he's there for his friend. Jeff understands. They both get each other. And, and as Lerner, as Alan D. Lerner said, he's at the audience in 1947 about that too. It's nowhere in the script.

It's not there. Nowhere there. So if you have that inside information and you're doing it now, if you update it, you know, it's okay. Kind of, you know, we, we did update it to a 1980. So it was 1880. There was a night, 1780 when it was happening. And that's kind of, yeah, that changed. Like the American revolution had already happened for the first time. It changed a lot of little things that people actually thought about it much, but, but yeah. The relationship between the two men is totally understandable.

[30:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's huge. I had never considered that and really makes it so timely, much more timely than I thought, because one of the hallmarks that I always think of with Lerner and Loewe is an element of magic where, or transformation. And so I just kind of maybe wrote it off a little bit as, as just fantasy and living in another time. But it is so intrinsically tied to the time in which it was written. I, when you look at it as being a post-war musical, that's incredible. And for us, it was Vietnam. So we had Vietnam going on. So that worked well. I mean, the same kinds of things were in place. I love this. I love this so much. They were in the war together. You won't find that out in the script people.

And a beautiful opening number where we see the whole townsfolk and the economy of it, even everybody has their businesses. And I mean, if you could only live one day every a hundred years, I think you would probably live with all of your heart. So, so these people feel very excited to be alive, to say the least.

[32:01] Meg Bussert: Yes. They're very, they're very grateful that they are alive because of what they went through. Now I got to say, when I went through this preparing for the episode, the themes that popped out to me, and it may be because I've been spending so much time in Hawaii, is this idea of gentrification and preserving a place from change. Here on Maui, there's so much talk about tourism for better or worse and what it's done in terms of colonialization and, and hurting the original cultures and people of this island. And I don't know, when going through Brigadoon, that just felt very, very singular that here's this place that has decided to protect itself completely from outside forces. And what are the consequences of it? Good or bad?

[32:52] Meg Bussert: Well, some of them, if I can jump in, consequences for the young folk. For the first one you meet who has consequences is Fiona. There's no guy for her. So she's waiting for my dearie and happy am I to hold my heart till he comes strolling by. Well, the likelihood he's going to come strolling by is nil because of the situation. And she knows everyone in town and none of them appeal to her. So within this playfulness as she's singing to the other women is, I'm going to be a spinster. It's probably okay. I would rather that than marry someone who it ain't going to work. She's fine. Her father is, the mother's not around. We don't know what happens. The father, she's definitely taking care of the father.

He's, he's fun, but he, you know, he calls on her to do it. She's the older sister taking care of her younger sister. So she's kind of already in the role of nurturer, wife, mother, even without. And so it's kind of interesting that she sets that up. The second person is Harry Beaton. We meet him. And he's, his father is a tailor or whatever, you know, he didn't get to go to college. He's stuck working for his dad. So the one who got to go to college is Charlie and Charlie's coming back, came back, you know, in time for the, for the miracle to happen. But Harry's got no life because of what happened to the miracle. He can't marry the girl that he loves and he has no future, no future, nothing he can, he can't go to another town to try to pick up.

So he's already caught and lost. Fiona's got it. She's got it. She's okay. Harry's not okay. And so you start seeing these stories kind of running around there. So many stories. I love how many characters there are. You've mentioned Harry, you've mentioned Charlie, who went away, came back, is about to marry Bonnie Jean. He's very excited about it. And I mean, he's already lived quite a life. He's been with a lot of people and he's ready to settle down. Compare that to Harry, who just has this unrequited love and nothing to show for it. Right. And he's stuck. There's nothing he can do. So there's all these, yeah, people who have, for whom the miracle wasn't necessarily the best thing. And how were they going to deal with this circumstance? So that's the big question. We've also got Meg, Meg Brocky, who is, I liken her to an Edo Annie. She has her own, I can't say no. Yeah, but she's a little further along than Edo. She doesn't.

[36:26] Meg Bussert: How so, Meg? Well, and I find that, as an older woman, I find that very interesting because someone has to take care of those needs in many cultures. And in many cultures, those women are tolerated, as is Meg. She's not thrown away and burned at the stake. Uh-huh. There, both of us had that stake. Yeah. And she's a bit of a joke. And again, there's nothing much left for her either. So she's probably been around the block with them. She's been around the block with the whole town, but everyone's grateful for it. They tolerate it. They tolerate it. That is the better one. But I think it's an important, where I can't say no for Edo Annie, is a joke. I mean, she's a good girl, but she has her little imaginative stuff.

And she flirts, but there's an end to the flirtation. And of course, Will Parker's not going to let her do it anymore. So there's a naivete in that one. There's less naivete in Meg. That's true. But yet, it's not pointed up to get anyone upset. But if you look at it, that's what's going on. That is one of the big differences that I would say in terms of writing style for Rodgers and Hammerstein and Lerner and Loewe. Rodgers and Hammerstein are flirtatious. If I loved you, people will say we're in love. In Lerner and Loewe, you get right to it and say your deepest thoughts and feelings right from the get-go, in a really beautiful, interesting way, mind you.

[37:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay. So Jeff, that's called a conditional love song, and that was something that Rodgers and Hammerstein did brilliantly.

[37:12] Meg Bussert: They did it so brilliantly.

[37:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They did it. Hammerstein did it on...

[37:16] Meg Bussert: In Show Boat.

[37:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He was in Show Boat. So that's a way of telling the audience that the young people really are interested in each other, but they haven't figured out how to talk about it yet. Heather on the Hill is another really interesting thing. The mist of maize and the glum, and they're wandering around. And in most presentations, so take my hand and we'll go roaming through the Heather on the... The man and woman hold hands, and then they swing hands and they're already touching. Well, Vivian said, no, no, no. He said the minute they touch, the story's over. So he made us find a way to do Heather on the Hill without touching.

[38:51] Meg Bussert: Wow.

[38:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: When Vivian was directing us in the scenes, he was coming at it as a director and he had not done musicals. So there was this kindness man, does he understand what we're doing? Sure. He made us do it. We directed that one scene before Heather on the Hill. We were directed on that for like three hours. There's 22 lines. But he took it as, this is a scene. And so we did it like actors. What's our motivation? What are we doing? What's another way of doing it? What if she's really pissed? What if she doesn't like him? What if he doesn't like her? Why is he doing this? Does he think he can take her to bed tonight? Or is he just going to take her off her coffee? So we have all of these and we do it in a variety of different ways. And we discovered so much.

[39:40] Meg Bussert: I bet.

[39:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And by the time we were done with it, it was locked in. And he did the same thing with the songs.

[39:48] Meg Bussert: And you play that within a thing that was always difficult about musicals, which is you literally have five minutes to fall madly in love with someone. And in Brigadoon, it's much more literal because the town's about to disappear. So tracking that arc is incredibly important in the show.

[39:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I think we didn't realize that at the time. But afterwards, we really appreciated all the work that was done on us because we were all very young.

[40:07] Meg Bussert: So I think we've talked about pretty much everybody. So let's talk about who starts loving who? Tommy and Fiona, right? Their flame is only fanned by Heather on the Hill, which by the way, I did Brigadoon in high school. I'm not saying it was a traumatic experience. I'm only saying that I realized this week that I have not listened to the music since.

[40:40] Meg Bussert: And my gosh, this score is so gorgeous. This music makes you cry just because it's beautiful.

[40:37] Meg Bussert: Charlie Dalrymple and Harry Beaton. Most of the first act is about this wedding day. The town has come back, and it just so happens to be their wedding day. It happens. There's, of course, an incredible wedding dance, generally called a sword dance. Very traditional, but also done within the realm of Agnes de Mille's work. What else happens in the first act that we should capitalize on? Well, the act break that we took was different than the original. The original act break takes you all the way through the end of the wedding. Of the wedding, right. Yeah, when Harry gets up and says, I'm leaving Brigadoon, you know. So, our act, and this had to do with Vivian's storytelling, he felt that the act break should be after, come to me, bend to me, after almost like being in love.

When Tommy finds the Bible and sees the dates, the groom-to-be has signed the family Bible, and the dates are there, and there's seven, you know. So, he said, what is this? You know, we're in the 20th century at the time, and they're in, you know, this is 1700. They're in, you know, this is 18th century. So, this doesn't make sense. So, then he talks to Fiona, and she said, we'll take you to our elder. We'll take you to, you know, and he will explain. So, you can hear the whole thing. That was the end of act one for our revival. Yeah, I guess that is kind of an important plot point that I completely went over. That's okay. Is that, no, but like I have taken for granted the fact that this magical town just appears, that there might be a couple of people that don't understand what the crap is going on.

So, he's fallen in love with somebody and doesn't even realize that she's from the 1700s. Correct. And this was the moment that you all decided to take care of the intermission, which that makes total sense. And then act two starts with Mr. Lundy. By the way, this is what's happening. Yes. And then we go to the wedding, and then the wedding goes right into the chase. So, at the end of the wedding, exactly, Harry Beaton, who, of course, Mr. Unrequited, is so upset that he decides that he's going to leave Brigadoon. Now, one of the important things we learned from Mr. Lundy is that if anybody in the town leaves, spell's broken, everybody dies. So, Harry Beaton has gone full Annihilistic and has decided, if I can't have Bonny Jean, then literally everyone's going to die. Yep.

[43:02] Meg Bussert: So, now, Chasine, one of my favorite things, one of my favorite tropes. Chasine, gorgeous underscoring, like you said. It reminds me a lot of the Guinevere music when she's being taken to the stake. Really gorgeous kind of ensemble singing. And Harry Beaton, they're looking for him. They find him, all right, but unfortunately, he has fallen and hit his head and is dead. Because Jeff has tricked him. Now, don't we find that out later, or is that- Is it seen? In our version, I think it was seen. It was so darkly lit. I think you're right. I think you're right, though. I think we see it, but then Tommy finds out about it later. Because Jeff tells him. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. Can you help us understand why Jeff trips him or how that happens?

Because he's trying to stop him. He didn't intend to kill him. He just wanted to stop him, I mean, according to the script. That's an awkward part of the script, but that's what happens. I just stuck my foot out and he fell and hit his head against a rock and he died. Shout out Brigadoon. Not really based on a pre-existing thing. So, a lot of originality here when it's debuting in 1947. Now, not only do ... I mean, this is quite the day at Brigadoon. Not only do they have this amazing wedding, then they have an amazing funeral. Very sad. Of course, this town is very, very close. And Maggie does a brilliant, brilliant funeral dance. Maggie. Oh my gosh, I forgot to introduce who Maggie was. Maggie is who is in love with Harry Bean.

But because Harry is so in love with Bonnie Jean, Maggie's not getting any attention or love whatsoever. And Maggie has no lines at all. All she does is dance. She's like the Jean McCracken of Brigadoon. She does this morning beautiful dance. I might pull that and put it on social media because it's stunning. And then the time comes to figure out, okay, what are we going to do? Is Tommy going to stay in Brigadoon or does he need to go home to New York? And like you mentioned earlier with that scene and the song, Fiona's upset about it, as is he. But the reality is he needs to go home and tie up a few loose ends. But going home means he can never come back. Exactly. After 100 years, he's going to be dead.

Yeah. They say goodbye. Brigadoon disappears. Tommy and Jeff go back to New York. And there's this really fun scene. I don't know if it's fun, but I think it's very clever in that Jeff has become full alcoholic because of the guilt that he has for having tripped Harry Beaton. And Tommy is with his fiance. And everything that is being said in this little dinner scene, in this little date scene, every single word that's being said reminds him of a song from Brigadoon. So you have these constant reprises happening every time he hears a word that reminds him of Heather on the Hill, or Go Home with Bonnie Jean, or one of these great songs that we've enjoyed. So obviously, he is trying to be present in the moment, but keeps being pulled back to these thoughts and memories of finally feeling at home in his life in this magical town. So then what does he do? He travels back to Scotland.

[47:13] Meg Bussert: Well, first he breaks it off with Jane. True. Thank you. Tie up those loose ends, Tommy, like a good boy. Does Jane take it well? And is Jane a comedic role? Is she an Ernestine Simple? No. She's just not meant to be his type. It's done in a variety of different ways, but it's clear from the get-go that he's maybe the toy husband. He's really cute. He's really successful, and he would work well in the social aspect of her plans. But yeah, I don't think she's evil or dumb, but it's just clear that it should be that she's not what he wants or needs. So once that's all finished, he goes back to Scotland. With Jeff. Now that's cool. Why do you think that is? Because they're buddies, and Jeff has to make sure that he knows.

That's so cute. And there also has to be a moment at the end of the show when Tommy leaves Jeff. Jeff looks back at Tommy. The end of the show, the only one left on stage is Jeff. Wow. And that's also saying something. So maybe Jeff is going to get himself together. Yeah, that's promising. That's hopeful. Why I love musicals. They go back. I love how quickly it comes together, but it is just the sweetest thing in the world, and so pure and earnest. The town comes back because of the love. What is greater than this miracle is this love that he has. And it's pointed out by the fact that Mr. Lundy comes out to meet Tommy, and he says, you must love her very much. You woke me up.

[48:07] Meg Bussert: So cute. And then in our version, Fiona does come down the stairs and extend her hand to him and they go up together. In the original, that was too ricy, so Mr. Lundy took them all. Really? Interesting. Yeah. In the movie, it's different. In the movie, she's there. There's that dramatic silhouette in the movie of Sid Shuri's coming through that doorway. They changed everything in the movie. They sure did. I remember being in junior high, and when you had a teacher gone, there'd be a substitute teacher, but they put on a movie. I was in choir, and the teacher was going to be gone, so we watched Brigadoon for two days with the substitute teacher. And bless this sub's heart, she thought she knew so much about old school musicals, and she was trying to tell everybody that Gene Kelly was Sid Shuri's. Now, this is Sid. This is Sid. And me, being the total nerd that I was, was just fuming in my chair, being like, that is not Sid Shuri's.

[49:14] Meg Bussert: That's a wonderful story. Hilarious. Anyway, so that's Brigadoon. That's Brigadoon. It's obviously a huge part of 1940s and 1950s musical theater. I mean, Schmigadoon just came out a year or so ago, which clearly has ties to Brigadoon. Did you watch it? I watched a couple of the episodes, and it's tied because they have the interlopers. It's a guy and a girl. They're going to find love instead of the two men, and they wander in, and they start the whole Brigadoon thing, but then they go to every single musical ever written, so it's... At first, I said, oh, I hope... Because it's so silly, and people who dislike musicals are, why are they singing? People are going to just say, this is... But it's so cleverly done, and everyone who's singing is brilliant at it.

They're all musical theater performers, mostly. And it grew on me, and it's very funny, especially if you can recognize every single reference. All the references. It's so true. I think that I always get really nervous when things like that come out, because there's already so much that makes fun of the art form. I want something that celebrates the earnestness of it. To be brave enough to be honest about musical theater is one of the more vulnerable things I think we can do as humans in 2022, and I think that it really did get to a really sweet place where they were brave enough to do that. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Yeah. So, a huge cultural footprint, a huge moment in figuring out what the future of musical theater was going to be, and it continues to be.

So, I'm really grateful for it. I'm really grateful for this episode, because it has sparked something in me, and thank you for teaching us today, Meg. It's a hard show to do because of the need of astounded dancers. Sure. And just before COVID, I was actually hired to do it and to play Mr. Lumbee as Mrs. Lumbee. And I did it at NYU in one of my last years, and it works. It works brilliantly, because then I can be eccentric. Yeah. I mean, and that's what Lumbee is. And then it makes Jeff a real jerk when he starts saying those awful things like he does to Lumbee. Wow. Yeah. Anyway, we had to get permission for that, and it was granted. I mean, every high school has a woman as Mrs. Lumbee. You have to be able to play it. So, there you go.

[51:44] Meg Bussert: That's amazing. That's really sweet. I would love to see you direct it. Maybe one day. We'll see. I'll get a great choreographer. This was so much fun. Thank you for inviting me, because you're fun to talk to. Thank you, Meg. I really appreciate that. As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on A Musical Theater Podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast at gmail.com. Don't forget to follow us on social media on Instagram and Twitter, at Amusical Podcast. We're also on TikTok. We have Patreon! Where for only $1 a month, you can support the show and receive bonus content. We also have a TeePublic store where any of our profits are going to Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS. You guys, thank you so much for listening. You know how grateful I am for this podcast community. You're the best. Share us with your friends. Hey, Meg Bussert. What's new for you? What do you want to plug?

[52:36] Meg Bussert: Well, Charles Kirsch has put together an evening of folks who did a lot of Broadway in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, mostly. Oh, my gosh. This lineup is insane. Ten of us that have done Broadway shows, and we'll all be doing a song. Some will do songs they introduced. I'm going to do something I introduced on a recording from a phantom, Maurice and Arthur Coppett phantom. I'm going to do the evil diva Carlotta's number. You were La Carlotta on the album. Yes. I'm going to do a version of that. It'll be a fun evening. I'm putting together a couple little things. I'm still coming out of COVID nonsense. I lost a lot of stuff as everyone else did. I'm very excited about some workshops that I'm presenting. Some are on the Shakespeare and the musical. I like that. I love you. Shakespeare and the musical. We'll see.

[53:32] Meg Bussert: Incredible. Incredible. You are a talent and a true ambassador for the art form. I'm so grateful you were here. Thank you. Thank you. Everybody out there, thank you so much for listening. Go listen to Brigadoon. Do it. There's a lot of recordings. Have fun. Bye.