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[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to a musical theatre podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theatre history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons, you can call me Jeff. Today we're talking Fun Home because it was a listener request, and my guest for the day is real-life lesbian, Miss Alyssa Simmons.

[1:30] Alyssa M Simmons: That's me, you're real-life lesbian, kids. I'm so grateful you're here. We've known each other for quite some time now, I would think.

[1:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah, it's been a chunk of time. You are supremely talented. I would venture to say one of my favorite interpreters of musical theatre songs.

[1:59] Alyssa M Simmons: Thank you, Jeff, that's so nice.

[2:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: When did we first meet? Did we meet, I don't know, I don't know when we first met, but... So I had heard about the famous Jeffrey Scott Parsons for quite some time because we both went to Brigham Young University.

[2:18] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah, we went there. I remember as I was getting ready to venture off into the non-BYU world, people were kind of saying like, oh, I'm going to be in New York, I'm going to try New York, I'm going to try LA or whatever. LA is home, home for me, where my family is. So I was like, yeah, I think I'm going to do LA for a little while and get my equity card and then maybe do New York, I don't know. And all of the professors were like, well, if you're going to do LA, you have got to get in touch with Jeffrey Scott Parsons. He's so famous at BYU. He's the only one crazy enough to move to Los Angeles and dedicate his life to musical theatre. And I was like, oh, sure. Great. He sounds nice. And I had like, you know, we were just close enough in school years that like... We just missed each other.

But I met, I think I met you after Summer of Love at Musical Theatre West because I had just moved out here. That show was a show about your hair because you had your glorious blonde curly mane down for all the world to see. And you would just sit in the audience and be like, who's the girl with the hair?

[3:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I like that show. Somebody in the cast coined it like family friendly hair, the musical, which is totally true. And it's a fun time. But I think we met. Yeah, I think I'm pretty sure that's where we first met. And then I was like, oh my gosh, you're Jeffrey Scott Parsons. All of the people have been telling me to come find you here.

[4:04] Alyssa M Simmons: So dumb. Have you seen Fun Home?

[4:04] Alyssa M Simmons: I saw it in New York when I was living there.

[4:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I have. When did you see it?

[4:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Lucky. Immediate thoughts after seeing Fun Home?

[4:21] Alyssa M Simmons: Oh my gosh. Well, it was very emotional. Well, I'd never ever seen a gay woman protagonist in a show before because there isn't one that we've seen. You know, there's obviously others written. So to see that type of character, to see that felt really big. It felt really like I was getting to see something so special. And I don't know Beth Malone, but I'd met her a couple of times. She's an LA gal. So yeah, to also see a gay woman playing a gay woman part. Yeah. Felt so, so special and so cool. Also, all-female creative team. What what? Also awesome. So yeah, that was my initial feeling. It was very emotional, but the biggest thing that I felt was that I had just been witness to something really big and really, really important. Like both emotional and historic.

[5:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, totally. That's great. The first time I saw was at the Amundsen. It was the national tour.

[5:21] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah. And I was.

[5:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You saw Kate Schindle.

[5:27] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah, I saw Equity President herself, Miss Kate Schindle. And I was in the back of the orchestra and I was impressed. But that's about it.

[5:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. It didn't like pull at you.

[5:43] Alyssa M Simmons: No, I walked away feeling a little sad, obviously, because there's definitely something tragic about the story. Yeah. But I also felt a little icky and I wasn't sure why.

[5:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting. I felt that way after Next to Normal.

[5:55] Alyssa M Simmons: Interesting. OK. I felt like I had been forced to feel something for a couple of hours. And then at the end they were just like, but here's a happy ballad. Everything's fine. I was like, no, it's not. Everything is not. Nothing is fine, actually. Nothing is fine.

[6:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I totally know that icky thing after a show where you're like, I feel like maybe they were trying to inspire me, but I don't feel good.

[6:23] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah, I think that's a really great way of saying it. Now, that being said, I have since gone back and watched a bootleg of the original cast of Fun Home in the original space.

[6:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, in the public.

[6:42] Alyssa M Simmons: Oh, no, no, no. Square. Yeah. OK. And had a completely different experience. You know, I think that that tour, I think that there's a tricky thing that happens with small shows, especially shows that honestly come from the public, because have you seen you seen anything at the public before?

[7:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No. Only things that have resulted from being at the public, from being there.

[7:06] Alyssa M Simmons: Sure. And there's a lot of them. But like the thing is, there's this there's this really like cool, intimate thing at the public because they can manipulate their space in so many different ways. And so a lot of times when it leaves the public, they try to find spaces where it like makes sense. You know, like Circle in the Square is a great space that makes sense for something that's been in the public. But I remember seeing Spelling Bee at the Circle in the Square and then seeing it on tour and it like didn't work at all. Like, I really feel like it didn't like it lost all of the parts to me that made it feel so relatable. And so, yes, like I'm watching this little slice of life happen. And I completely lost it partially because I was super far away.

But there's an intimacy in the Circle in the Square space that's not the way the Amundsen is. And it's not the way most touring houses are. I don't know if I've ever seen a musical where I saw and thought this show should never be produced in a proscenium space. But I deeply believe that about Fun Home. I think that because it is Allison's story and in many ways adult Allison is constantly weaving throughout life. If it's presented flatly like that, you lose an entire dimension of storytelling, which is like super interesting because she's a cartoonist. So like normally she works from that flat perspective, like the real Allison Bechdel. But it's interesting, though, that like in the musical storytelling of it, we need that depth. We need to be able to see her working her way through this past part of her life.

[8:52] Alyssa M Simmons: You're so right. She's literally working her way through it. And if we're if we go any amount of time where we forget about her, I think you feel disconnected from your protagonist.

[9:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Totally. Now, interesting caveat in our lives. We are both gay people who went to BYU, which I think usually breaks most people's minds. Like how does that work? And I usually say very carefully. And at the same time, though, I have stayed in the church, in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I would venture to say that you're not active in the church anymore. Is that true?

[9:28] Alyssa M Simmons: I am not. Yes, that is true. I, for me personally, didn't feel that I could remain in the church with the way that things currently are. My family is still active in the church and I love them and they love me, which is really what a huge blessing. I'm very, very, very lucky and very fortunate. But yeah, for me, I felt, without getting too heavy too quick here, I felt that no matter what I chose, I would have to abandon a part of myself. So I felt that if I were to stay in the church, I would be denying myself any sort of temporal happiness, like finding love and companionship. And I felt that if I left the church and decided to allow myself to find love and find a person, that I would be abandoning my faith and my whole spiritual background, which is so important to me.

But thankfully, lots of years later, I have come to know that that is just not true, that you can totally have both things. You can have temporal happiness and love and companionship, and you can also have faith. It looks different for a lot of people, and that's the awesome and cool, amazing thing about life is being able to figure out what works for you.

[11:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So you and I are different in that way, but also the same in that way.

[11:20] Alyssa M Simmons: I absolutely agree. I know I do talk about so much of my experiences within the framework of the church, because it, like musical theater, has probably been one of the largest structures in forming my life experience and who I am. And having you on this episode, I definitely wanted to take some time to shed light on someone else's experience, because I know that not everybody would have the same reaction that I or at least come to the same conclusions that I have about what is right for me. I was going through exactly the same thing you were talking about, which is like, why do I feel like I have to choose one or the other? That feels like I'm splitting myself in half, and I don't think that's what God would want me to do.

And then, in an answer to prayer, I realized you are not two people. You are one person, and your opportunity is to show up as yourself and let people love you. And if you do that, I promise I'm speaking as the Lord, of course. Obviously. And if you do that, I bet a lot of people will. And so I kind of just trusted it and went with it, and it's really been an incredible experience that has forced me to be open in a way that I think Fun Home really is talking about, right?

[12:53] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah. The truly inspired and profound truth that you are a whole person. Let yourself be seen.

[13:08] Alyssa M Simmons: In a faith of some kind is that there's something broken in you that either you need to fix or get rid of or push down or release or however you want to say it. I think that that is one of the biggest messages in FUN HOME is that it's a pretty tragic story. Spoiler alert everybody if you haven't seen it. Happy Pride everyone. But like that idea of like you know Allison fighting so hard to live her truth and how heartbreaking it was that she couldn't help her dad because he was on his own journey and his own thing. So but yeah this sort of idea that you're not a damaged good if you're different you know quote unquote like that's what makes like learning who you are so special. You're absolutely right.

I think sometimes we fault religion for being this kind of structure that doesn't make room for those differences for what makes us special. And I would say yes and communities in general right are meant to create some sort of safety and conformity whether that is a small town or a church or even a family. And in FUN HOME's case I think it's a family where there are certain rules set up to make sure that everybody is safe. And then once you realize that your life and who you are is in direct conflict with those rules then there's conflict. Totally. I think the opportunity for us and this goes I think even much larger in what our country is seeing in terms of the Black Lives Matter movement is that if we have a community that is actively forcing its members to decide what half person they're going to be then there's something fundamentally wrong.

And it's up to that community to look within itself and see how can we structure ourselves to make everything as safe as it can be for everyone. Yeah it's tricky. It's hard. Yeah it's tricky. It is so tricky but so important. Talking about the show itself FUN HOME is a biography musical. Yeah. It's a bio musical about Alison Bechdel who is a famous cartoonist. I guess lesbian cartoonist is how she would probably refer to herself. Born 1960 Pennsylvania her father owned a funeral home. Yeah he was a what is what is that person called? An undertaker? Yeah. Is that what they're called? I mean yeah but I thought there was like a nicer term. I just like undertaker is someone like so scary. Undertaker sounds like somebody who like works for the WWE.

Absolutely and their costume is like this like bald cap that like goes back like halfway through their halfway back their head and they like are hunched over. Exactly yeah so anyway. There probably is another word for that but let's just call him the undertaker. The undertaker and which is what the title FUN HOME is referring to is a funeral home. She is a cartoonist. She starts a long-running comic strip called Dykes to Watch Out For that came to critical and commercial success in the early 2000s. Now I always joke that I know most things because of musical theater but the fact is I knew about Alison Bechdel before FUN HOME and I'm very proud of this. Wow look at you. Right? Because of the Bechdel test?

Exactly. Yay! Exactly because of the Bechdel test. Can you tell us what that is? Yeah so the Bechdel test we actually just talked about it on my little Star Wars podcast as well. Oh cute. So the Bechdel test is a way to measure the representation of women in fiction. That's like the easy bare bones way to describe it and there are three little bullet points of criteria that something has to have in order to pass the Bechdel test and those three things are that the movie or play or musical has to have two women in it. That's the first one. Second one. Number one. Yes number two is that they have to talk to each other. Which is more challenging than you think. You would you would be surprised how many things do not pass this test.

For sure. And the third and the third one is that they have to talk to each other about something other than a man. You guys. And that's it. That's the Bechdel test and it's pretty terrifying how few things pass the Bechdel test in our current day and age. It's really insane. It's really insane. When I first heard of the Bechdel test I believe Wizard of Oz was used as an example of an older film that does pass the Bechdel test. Right. Because Dorothy's talking to Glinda or even the Wicked Witch. Even the Wicked Witch. Yeah. These are interesting female characters that are talking about bigger things and in that you know like comic strip is the moment when she talks about the Bechdel test and then it caught fire and created a sensation.

Yeah she admitted admittedly says like it was kind of like a very insidery joke. Like it was not necessarily meant to become this thing that especially feminist reviewers and critics kind of base their their reviews off of. So that's interesting. She even said that it came from one of her friends. Like they had had this talk and like most artists she's like oh that would make a great strip or a great piece of cartoonery. Yeah I think her I know her last name was Wallace her friend because a lot of people call it the Bechdel Wallace test but I don't know her first name. So sorry sorry Madam Wallace. Ms. Wallace we'll call you. Ms. She then creates a graphic novel based on her life which is called Fun Home and that then becomes the basis for the musical which is written by composer Janine Tesori who I think is one of the true treasures of modern musical theater.

There is no one as versatile as Janine Tesori. No if you were to tell a human being that the same person who wrote Shrek also wrote Caroline or Change they would be like but yeah. And every every single musical that she comes out with throws me for a loop even more. I first remember her because she got nominated for best score at the Tony Awards for a play. She wrote this the music for the Lincoln Center production of Twelfth Night and so then I'm thinking all right is she a classical composer? Nope because then the next show she comes out with is Thoroughly Modern Millie. Wait what? Now you're gonna give me gimme gimme and forget about the boy? Crazy. So they're like okay so she does like very consumable traditional musical theater.

Nope because then she does Caroline or Change which is some of the densest musical theater writing that we have. After that she does Shrek. I mean did you see Soft Power here in Los Angeles? I didn't get to see it. No I didn't get to see it. Alyssa it was the most original theater going experience I've ever had in my life. That's amazing that's what I heard and I am really sad that I didn't get to because I'm such a fan of hers. I'm such a fan of hers. For those who don't know there was this musical called Soft Power that played in Los Angeles and it was super weird and like not perfect but like the originality just continually impressed me all night long. If I can boil it down to one sentence I would say Soft Power is based on the premise that in the future musical theater is saved by this phenomenon kind of like Hamilton but like the biggest musical theater phenomenon of all time that is written by the Chinese about the 2016 election.

That's so weird. That's what the entire musical is about. Oh man. It was so crazy so she was crafting a score that was based on the traditions of Rodgers and Hammerstein but then put through the lens of eastern music. It was incredible. And I'm so glad that she is the one to have that undertaking as well because like. She's also an undertaker apparently. She is also an undertaker. Janine Tesori the undertaker. Really though because who on earth could do that? Yeah. Only her because that's so complex and so weird. Exactly. She seems to be someone who is as creative as she is mathematic. Everything I've I read a couple of interviews and it's amazing how she will use musical terminology to talk about something that isn't musical and you're like oh I see how your brain works.

For example, here's a quote from her, music for me is like the architecture of a beautiful thing you're envisioning and the way to get there is intervallic. Whoa. Right? So like she's using the term interval to talk about the way to get to things in architecture but she's actually talking about music by using a term from music. Crazy. Wow. So crazy. In talking about Fun Home she talked about how she was so interested in this house and to know the counterpoint that was happening within the house. Counterpoint another musical term which is when people are singing different things that happen to go together and yet she's looking at it from a realistic place in which all of these different lives are happening in the same home and yet somehow are relating to each other.

Wow that's so great and you can hear that especially a perfect example in the score of the show is Helen's song when she's playing the piano and Bruce is having an affair upstairs. Right. And she's playing the piano and singing the song so there's that like total juxtaposition and that counterpoint that she's talking about. Exactly while the kids are watching TV. Yes. Now she also likes to work with playwrights instead of musical theater standard book writers. Book writers and yeah. So in the case of Fun Home she works with Lisa Cron who had written several plays all of which had an edge to them but were also comedic in nature but she had certainly never. Somebody described her or maybe she was even self-described as like it might have been a review from I read I read a review from one of the plays that she wrote called 2.5 Minute Ride.

Yes which is about yeah it's it's about her going back to Auschwitz with her father and his his parents were killed there. Yeah she has she has I haven't I haven't read that play but I maybe maybe when things aren't quite so heavy in the world I'll read it. What are you talking about you're not waking up right now and being like Auschwitz. Let's go. Let's go. Yeah they described her as as having this this great sort of seesaw balance with with horror and with humor. Yes. Really sort of horrific situations but finding finding the humor and the levity. That's a great way of saying it thank you for saying it like that that's absolutely perfect but has never written a musical before and you listen to these lyrics and they're absolutely brilliant.

They're so good they're so good I know I actually didn't I didn't know until doing some more research for this that she had never written a musical before like which is really crazy because usually you can tell usually there's like a few moments where you're like oh no I mean that's a great line but those syllables don't fit in the notes my sweet my sweet little baby angel they don't fit in there that's a good word but it's a quarter note so but yeah no her her lyrics are amazing.

[26:16] Alyssa M Simmons: Remember that Katy Perry song from her Prism album? Maybe you don't. I don't know if you're a Katy Perry fan or not, but there's a Katy Perry album. It's called Prism and there's a song on it called, oh shoot, what is it? Unconditionally. Oh yeah, I do know that song. And the way that she put it in the notes, it goes unconditionally and it drives me absolutely bonkers. That's horrible. Because it makes it impossible for me to remember the title of the song because no one says that word unconditionally. No, they don't. All right. Do you know who didn't do that? Lisa Krohn. Lisa Krohn. And we're happy about it. And then she won two Tony Awards for well deserved for doing that. Now, from what I understand, they really explored the different ways to bring this very unconventional source material to the stage.

They originally were going to go very cartoon with it, like with the cartoons being projected and things playing out in real life. And they figured all of these things out through lab workshops. Have you ever done labs?

[27:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I have. I always think it's interesting for people to understand about how musicals get put together. What was your experience with labs and was it before or after the strike?

[27:39] Alyssa M Simmons: It was before. Okay. I have not. I have not done one since.

[27:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Cool. I did one in New York and I've done a couple here in L.A. And how would you describe them? What does it consist of?

[27:53] Alyssa M Simmons: You know, every situation is slightly different. Sometimes the show comes really fleshed out already. Maybe they've already done a couple of readings. Maybe they've already done a lab. Maybe they, you know, have really been working this material for a long time. I have done others that... It's choosing my words so wisely right now. I have done others where it is very clear that maybe this is the first musical they've ever written. So that's a one thing. It's also very clear that they don't really know what the tone of the show is. And sometimes that has to do with the book and sometimes that has to do with like a thousand billion other things. My dad is a composer of musicals. I grew up in this sort of like world of seeing like lots of his shows get workshopped and go through labs.

And yeah, so that's really interesting. I've never thought of it like I've seen so much of that in my life because of my dad's line of work. But sometimes you pretty much do the ink and that's what it is. And other times I will tell you another one of my experiences which was basically like nothing was fleshed out at all and I was required as the actor which is like totally fine by me. Like I'm the person that brings these words and these songs to life right here. But so many things where they're like, oh well Alyssa just add a riff here. Or Alyssa make up a line here to get you out of the scene. Like straight up me writing the show. I'm not gonna say what show this is but like there are things that I sang in rehearsal in many shows that have since had lives that I'm not a part of. But that like a thing that I did in rehearsal is now the ink in the music.

[30:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow.

[30:04] Alyssa M Simmons: So there's that.

[30:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay off the record you have to tell me what it is.

[30:12] Alyssa M Simmons: I will. You have to bleep it out or just don't put this.

[30:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No I won't put it in. So then the actors union kind of stepped in in these situations to be like okay there are actors like Alyssa here who are going into labs giving of themselves as artists to create projects that then become hits starring quote-unquote names because I get it it's Broadway it's a business they have to sell tickets. But then all of that creative work that was done in order to get the show to that point is not being rewarded or paid for. So there was a strike from our union to make sure that that was going to change and it has since changed where that now if you do a lab and it gives birth to a musical that becomes a big enough hit you are then given essentially residuals once that show turns a profit in its Broadway incarnation. You know just in case you don't get cast in the final production which is very likely.

[31:18] Alyssa M Simmons: In the case of Fun Home Beth Malone who like we said is a California gal was always part of it from what I understand from the get-go and I love that they kept her from the get-go because she's absolutely perfect for the role. I can't think of anybody else doing it like her. The way that she was able to embody this person with both darkness and sadness and humor and a curiosity so often in her performance you see her watching her life with a degree of curiosity and then got nominated for a Tony for it.

[31:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes so awesome. Through all of these labs it comes to Off-Broadway and then has a very successful run at the Public. It then gets transferred to Circle and the Square which I guess is like a three-fourths right?

[32:06] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah it's a thrust. So you have audiences on three-fourths of the stage and the show is a huge critical smash. It runs for several years, makes its money back which is always a very impressive thing, gets nominated for many Tony Awards in the 2015 season. It wins Best Musical, Best Score, Best Director, Best Book as well as Best Actor for Michael Cerveris who played the father. In terms of the other musicals nominated for Best Musical that year there were An American in Paris, Something Rotten, and The Visit so I think Fun Home was definitely the favorite of those. All great shows, all very different kinds of shows but still Fun Home was I think the most critically acclaimed of them.

[33:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think everything else I want to talk about the show is actually in the show so do you mind if we go through it real quick from the top?

[33:11] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah of course. Let's take it from the top. Fun Home starts with us meeting adult Allison and throughout the show we see three different incarnations if you will of this character. We see adult Allison, then we see her younger self as a child, and then her teenage self going to college. So young, medium, and adult Allison. All three of whom were played brilliantly by their original actors and right from the get-go we know that Allison is a cartoonist and that she's kind of exploring her childhood which gives birth to this opening sequence. I don't know if I'd even call it an opening number.

[33:56] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah, sequence is a good way to describe it. Where we see her childhood home which we've already discussed was also a funeral home. In that home is her who is the oldest child. She has two brothers and then she also has a mother and a father. Her father is a very demanding father. He is obsessed with antiques so their house is kind of a museum. I love that. I love that they always refer to the house as a museum because it stops being an actual home when it's a museum. It's meant to be looked at but not lived in. And kind of the hyper focus on perfection is also very telling once you get to know what's going on with the father. At the end of this whole opening, Welcome to Our House on Maple Avenue, we learn two things.

We learn that Allison feels like she and her father have very little in common and yet everything in common because she grew up to be a lesbian cartoonist and he grew up to be a closeted man who killed himself. End of the opening number! Welcome to a little happy musical everybody!

[35:15] Alyssa M Simmons: The rest of the show kind of bounces back and forth between these different times in her life whether she's an adult, whether she's a her youngest self, or whether she's her medium self. It's very inspired and then when the Cher show came around I was like wait so is this fun home but with Cher?

[35:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Totally! They liked it okay? It was a great device! Now one of the big important moments that we actually see small Allison connecting with her father is when they're playing this game of airplane. Now for those who are listening and can imagine picture her father lying on his back with his legs in the air and then she comes and puts her like stomach on his feet and then he pushes her up with his legs so then she feels like she's flying and there she says like she can see everything and it's this really beautiful memory that she holds on to and I think becomes an important metaphor for the whole show. One of the other big things that happen in the life of young Allison is this big number called come to the fun home in which she and her brothers have like concocted a commercial for their funeral home that sounds kind of like a Jackson 5 type song.

[36:38] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah totally Jackson 5 Partridge family Brady Bunch like yeah. And to see these like three little kids just living their best life they've like rehearsed it you know so intently to make their dad proud and it also reminds us when this is taking place yeah we're definitely right in that time of Motown of the Partridge family. Everybody's in browns and itchy sweaters. Stripes and orange and yes. When I was growing up my mom's kitchen was orange and yellow and she that's just the best like linoleum on the floor and she said that when she and my dad built the house that they got to the kitchen were like okay we need to pick colors that are going to be classic and last forever. Orange and yellow it is. I mean it was it was just the time. What are some other important things that happened to small Allison though besides these these fun moments that I think are really important because they remind us that her she didn't have a bad childhood.

[37:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right it wasn't like demented and abusive and spooky there were some spooky there were some spooky moments we'll we'll talk about those but yeah um yeah she had a I mean they called it they called it the fun home and like they even say that before they go into that number like are you sure it's okay that we call it this like that's just what our family calls our funeral home and it's like even though they were like essentially living in a museum funeral home like they still had a happy childhood.

[38:12] Alyssa M Simmons: Not to mention the mom is an incredibly creative person. Yes. She's like a director of theater she's a teacher of the arts and so there is a there's definitely a focus on art and creativity within the home. Yes. Which I think is also part of that balance.

[38:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah totally and you you learn pretty right off the bat too that they are supportive of Allison's drawings and they like you know especially her dad it's like you have the ability to become a very famous artist he's still trying to control everything that she does it's and in the scene maps she has like a class assignment where she's meant to draw a map of all the places she knows and all the places that like her her family and her friends have traveled and it's it's that thing that you were describing like his need to have everything appear perfect even though it's not you know it's far from um the way that everything looks and appears is is perfect and pristine and and restored and put together.

[39:15] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah it's interesting when you look at his character it's a brilliant performance by Michael Cervas. Once again I'm talking about

[39:23] Alyssa M Simmons: Bootleg, forgive me people, but it's one of my favorite performances I've seen from a male. Yes, it's so nuanced and it's so, it's that thing with actors where it's like, you know, the source material is good, but like all of the underneath of everything that he says and does is so, just like the character, so meticulously mapped out that that's why you're like, that's why it's so brilliant. And then you could tell through a bootleg that every part of him has been created. Yeah. You know, when nuance reads on a bootleg, I mean, what better review can you give? And he's actually, he's actually living and breathing this character. He's not, he's not an actor. Like he's, he is Bruce. Because these sorts of things like his controlling of her, her drawing, because she's also in a small way creating her style.

She's discovering her style as an artist that she wants things that don't necessarily obey the laws of physics. And, you know, there is kind of a cartoonish nature to what she wants to create. And he's like, no, it needs shading and look at point of view. And how does the light hit this and cast a shadow over here? Look how beautiful and real it looks. Right. And she's like, I'm 10. Yeah, exactly. And you see that his desire to control or to make it better, to make it perfect is based on something more than just being a quote unquote, bad dad. You know, it's not, and oh, and it's so brilliant because once again, you have adult Alison watching all of this. So I think it would have been very easy.

And maybe this goes to the director. It could have been very easy to play this story as it's all happening from her perspective. It's everything that she remembers and how this made her feel. And yet it's actually very not judgmental. You're seeing the pain from which he's acting, that it's not about the child. It's about him. Everything that he's doing is because there's something that hasn't been healed there. I think another one of those important moments for small Alison is the party dress scene. She's going to like a birthday party or something and doesn't want to wear a dress. And that's also something that I identify with because I hated having to wear a dress to church on Sundays. I did it because I had no choice.

I mean, my parents were just like, we love you. You can wear your green tie dye shirt and cut off shorts every other day of the week, but you have to wear a dress to church. Those were just the rules. So I sucked it up and I got over it. And it's not like something that I hold on to like they forced me into the dress. For me, it's not like that. At Thanksgiving, it comes out at the dinner table. I just completely lose my mind. My family is like, okay. But yeah, so he tells her like, you have to wear this party dress and he does this thing. And this is the book and this is also just Michael being so, so brilliant, but he just, he says to her, he says, do you really want people to talk about you and to look at you and to look at you differently?

Because you're the only, you're the only girl, not in a dress. And he says it to her in this way. That's like, it's so manipulative and freaky, but like, he says it in this way. And you know, that it's that thing where it's, it's doesn't have to do with her wearing a dress. It has to do that. He is so deeply and utterly ashamed of such a huge thing in his world. And he doesn't want people to look at him differently. And he doesn't want people to be talking behind his back. And so he's saying this to like a little kid. And that's a very interesting moment to look at all of the psychology there with him and her. There are a couple of things I always talk about Brene Brown, but there are a couple of things I've learned from my prophet Brene about, about these types of reactions that are so based in our own personal shame.

And what I hear from him when he's saying this is I know what it's like to be different. And I don't want that for you because I'm not okay with it. And number two, if you're different than that means I have to have empathy for you. And that doesn't feel good because then I have to go to that dark place with you. Well, and as I'm, I mean, I'm not a parent, but I've had both of my parents say this to me at one point or another in my life is that you don't want your kids' lives to be hard. Sure. You don't want your kids to struggle or feel lesser than or to, to be judged. And I think that so much of that, that generation, Bruce's generation specifically, is that a gay person or a queer person will live an entire life of judgment, ridicule, shame, all of the above, you know, where thankfully we've had a lot of people and a lot of, a lot of things happen where it's becoming less and less of that.

But for him, that's all he knows. And even though he is closeted, like he knows that if he were to leave his wife and leave his family and go be truthful to that part of him, that society would deem him an absolute monster garbage can of a human being. You know, I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like growing up as a gay boy in a conservative place, I learned how to be deceptive very early. And I say the word deceptive instead of liar, because that doesn't feel good to me. I don't want to call my little self a liar. Yeah. But I learned how to make little adjustments, little deceptions to keep all of the balls in the air that I was juggling. And boy, oh boy, if you don't nip that in the bud.

It will eat, it will eat your soul away. It absolutely will. And don't think that you won't bring it into adulthood. You know, don't think that those quiet deceptions aren't going to affect other relationships in your life. I know that they have mine. And so practicing that kind of honesty is, you know, we I think sometimes people get maybe annoyed at how loud we are about pride and everything. Sure. But at the same time, we have to be like, no, you don't realize how damaging lying can be. The other side of it is. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that like that's why the whole like word pride and the whole idea behind it and everything. It's the complete opposite of shame. Right. Pride to have pride in yourself, to have pride in all that you are, all of the parts, the good, bad, the ugly, the scary, what have you, to have pride in yourself versus shame.

But if every part of your existence was like like you were saying, which I absolutely experienced not so much as a little kid, but definitely in my like high school and college years. But like for me, I was like, you know, I can figure out how to compartmentalize, like we were saying at the very beginning, living essentially two different lives and two different people and those deceptions that go along with that. And this sort of mental and emotional toll and physical that it takes on a person to continually not even just like deceive others to deceive yourself. But yeah, you see you see that get to get back to fun home. You know, you see that in Bruce and you see that in the thing, the thing that he has been deceiving himself and others of, it leaks onto everything and he can't control it.

And so when it starts to feel out of control, like the party dress thing, he tries to like, you know, trying to scrub out these leaks and these stains everywhere, but he but he can't. He can't. And he also I'm going to make a statement here. I think that he absolutely knew that Allison was gay from a very young age. So there's there's another whole thing where he's like, this is the thing that I hate about myself the most. And now my daughter has it. So what can I do? Yeah. Dealing with that guilt of did I pass it on to her? Yeah. Now, during this young portion of her childhood, he we later find has had relationships with men some underage. How would you describe Roy? Like Roy is this character he first meets as like a junior in high school and kind of begins grooming him in a Michael Jackson sort of way to be a lover and then eventually hires him as an assistant.

Right. But he's just basically creating opportunities for them to be together and to be together and have an affair. This part of the story, which is 100 percent part of Allison's actual experience. So who am I to criticize it? But I wonder if this is one of the things that kind of triggered me and made me feel icky because I think I don't doubt that. I don't doubt that at all because it made me feel super icky as well. Yeah. I think that I am as sensitive to the don't be gay or else you'll become a pedophile as much as I am be gay or you will become a pedophile. Right. And that's part of the show. Like you said. So that's the way it is in the musical. I think one thing that as I've kind of been able to step away from it a little bit and see that not only was her dad a closeted gay man, he was also a pedophile.

And that's a really horrible and difficult thing to have to wrap your mind around one of your parents being like that. For sure. You know, it also adds to her trying to figure him out and trying to to understand, but also being deeply ashamed of that part of him, too. Right. But yes, it also made me feel icky because he was a pedophile. I'm actually kind of digging how we're going through all of Small Alison stuff. Yeah. So normally in the show, everybody, it's kind of in a mosaic structure. So we hop between adult Alison talking about things for her memoir, medium Alison to small Alison, back to medium, back to adult. But I like I like that we're kind of going chronologically in a way. Yeah.

It makes it a little bit easier to dissect. There's this one moment when Bruce, the dad, takes the kids with him on like a business trip to New York. Yes. And they're all staying in a hotel and he's getting them ready for bed. But at the same time, he's getting ready to go out. And there's so much that isn't talked about. But you start to connect the dots. One of the kids like asks, why are there so many sailors in town right now? And and you're like, oh, wait, did he plan this trip to coincide with Fleet Week? And then he tells Small Alison, hey, I'm going to go out and get a newspaper, go to bed. And she's like, wait, what? What? No. Like you're leaving us all alone in the big city in New York City in a hotel room.

And he sings her this lullaby that is brilliant and sad and terrifying. The lyric is something like it's some people's job to stay and sometimes to go. And it's almost like the lullaby is about that moment, right, that she's supposed to stay in the hotel room and he's supposed to go. And yet it's almost like he's telling her, you might be able to do something that I could never do. Yeah. Like it's both. It's somehow both. It's just a testament to the writing. It's such good writing. It's one of the definitions, I think, of this show. This show is able to hold two things at the same time. Yeah. All right. Let's go to medium Alison.

[52:32] Alyssa M Simmons: And yeah and then she sings a song. Which is one of the probably the more lauded songs of the score. Yeah. You know it really does talk about the importance of representation that when you see somebody and you're like wow I somehow get you and I don't know how but you matter. You matter in my life. Did you have any people like that in your life as a queer person?

[52:57] Jeff Parsons: Yes. Yes I did. When I was a senior at BYU I was also doing a production of a 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee at a theater in Salt Lake and the woman who played Rona her name is Tamara Howell and she's an amazing human being. She was the very first to my knowledge I mean probably as a kid I'd met people but she was the first gay woman who I knew that was married with children and one of the scariest parts for me with coming to terms with my sexuality and my world was that I really was not sure that I could ever have like a normal life like the whole like married with kids and like a nuclear family. Yeah that that idea like I hadn't seen that really done. I'd seen lots of gay relationships in my life with men.

I'd never seen that before and I was not out yet. I was in that sort of scary deceptive place of like you know double life in my brain and my in my body and I just remember I was having like a horrible horrible day and it was before rehearsal and I was like crying in my car and she knew like she knew exactly what was going on. I didn't have to say anything to her and she pulled me out of my car and just held me and for me that was that was that sort of moment of really truly feeling seen and understood and also I knew that this was a really just really bad time and that it was not going to be forever. It was not going to be a forever bad time for me that you know that idea of like having another human being not only just say like it gets better but like I know it gets better and like look at look at what I have and look at what I've done.

[55:04] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah. Yeah. What about you? Did you have a person like that for you when you were either young or or 26?

[55:09] Jeff Parsons: Right. Which is also young. Which is also young. I mean no. I think that's kind of the tragedy of it all. Yeah. Is that for whatever reason I felt like I had to do it all by myself yeah and luckily I had an art form in which I could go on stage and pretend to be other people when I hated myself and I had a family who loved me no matter what but yeah I felt pretty alone.

[55:42] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah. I think a lot of people do and I guess I should say that it's not that I felt alone and that there wasn't anybody there for me but I felt like everybody who was there for me was there for their side of the argument. Interesting. You know there were I think there were plenty of gay people who were like yeah tell the church to f off and yeah and you're like that doesn't and like that doesn't sit right with me and then on the other side too where you know don't let the gays tempt you and take you away from us and I'm like what like I literally am spending Sunday matinees with them and feeling the spirit like what so yeah I think that that's where the alone came from.

[56:22] Alyssa M Simmons: Allison has a really fun and I say fun because it is one of the more enjoyable things about the show is to watch her coming out experience in college so medium Allison is excited to go to college she is now a cartoonist I guess start studying art history and she kind of keeps feeling herself pulled to the gay alliance club like the gay support club at the college but at the same time she's terrified of going in yes until she meets somebody named Joan who doesn't think it's a big deal yeah she's just like okay yeah yeah we're gay okay sometimes the the whole expectation about coming out is so big that it's actually a little on the new year's eve side of things totally totally like happy new oh well now I mean I feel exactly the same as I did like two seconds ago absolutely and I think that that's what Joan provides for medium Allison is just this feeling of yeah great can we continue on with our lives now which is great and I think that's why it kind of propels her to just come out when she does you know she's like yeah I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna tell my parents I'm gonna write a letter home and I'm gonna tell them that I'm gay and she and her father have been writing back and forth pretty consistently which I think is also interesting like he yeah he's invested in her collegiate life it's not like she left home and now he's like great more time with boys like he's still writing her letters and so then she writes a letter back saying that she's gay and the parents have two very different responses um understandably so but also kind of surprising yeah the mom is really upset I believe because her life has been so horribly altered by by a gay experience the dad is actually pretty casual about it like yeah he doesn't he is very nonchalant he's like yeah uh I got your letter oh by the way I went to the store the other day mm-hmm got some new doorknobs I don't know just like very very mundane and then at the end says something super passive-aggressive like don't put a label on it which you know is exactly what I guess he did yeah and does every day still she's on cloud nine because she came out to her family and so she ends up having her first sexual encounter with Joan and when she kind of wakes up from this sexual experience she has a great song called changing my major to Joan which is such a it's such a good number it's so it's so cleverly written yeah and then and then there's like moments in it sprinkled too that like I was I was listening to the recording yesterday um I haven't listened to it in a while and a part of it made me really emotional because um the lyric where she says it's it's later on in the song she's sung all these things and she says you know I'm changing my major to Joan I thought all my life I'd be all alone and that idea of especially as a young person and an older person no matter where you are in your journey it's like saying that out loud and being like no I I thought I was going to be alone forever it's like so heartbreaking but the the number is like super uplifting and and also hats off to both Janine Tesori and and Lisa Cron because they wrote her like someone that actually sounds like a 19 year old yes so often and I'm not going to name names but like you know when like people are writing like for things from from the perspective of a child or a teenager they have them sound like not a child or a teenager and it makes me crazy because Jason Robert Brown they're yeah that's the one um there are millions more honestly no they're like that is that's an example because I I've never met any 13 year old that talks or thinks that way but they just wrote her in such an awesome authentic way like it feels so truthful and it feels so exactly right because she's just like had this experience and she just can't like she can't believe it like she can't believe that someone so cool thought that she was cool and they made out and it was awesome like it's all of those things that when you're 19 years old like that's it man like what the heck that's so sweet when I saw the show originally I actually saw um Emily Skeggs but Emily went to college with a really good friend of mine and my writing partner and so um that's how I got tickets to see the show no way and um she was just so it was so great and it was so just like the nail like right on the head and also the show's quite heavy so to have those moments of like just being excited and confused but you know all of all of the things such a fun moment in the show I think what I love about it is that it feels earnest to me which is something that I often think is missing in musical theater and Janine Tesori trusts musical theater as an art form to be enough to communicate feelings we don't need to comment on it we can just do it and this is a great example of that medium Allison then takes Joan back home take Joan back home bold right big bold move yeah and Joan by the way what a rock star they like get there and she's like oh I'm feeling tired can I go lie down I'm really tired from finals I'm sure you guys have things you'd like to talk about like good for you smart smart way to get out of the situation you know what's going on you know what needs to be said just take yourself out of it you don't need to be there girl no and that gives medium Allison the chance to talk to both her dad and her mom her dad leaves Bruce leaves he's just kind of like whatever you're home everything's great you know once again perfect perfect perfect we're not talking about anything less than that mom on the other hand is an open bleeding heart and this is honestly my favorite moment in the entire show if I'm being honest is the song days and days Judy Kuhn everybody Judy Kuhn you know at the Tony Awards that year for best supporting actress you had Judy Kuhn uh and then the small Allison and medium Allison all three nominated and they're all fantastic I'm sorry I'm not bringing up their names but who ended up winning was Ruthie Ann Miles and I'm so glad that she did especially because she's had so much heartbreak and and I would never want to take away a Tony Award from a person of color no all of that being said Judy Kuhn could have walked away without award in any other season as far as I'm concerned oh yeah well she's like the nomination queen as well like she has has she never won she's never won she has I think I think she's had five or six nominations dang it that is a career Alyssa the fact yes like if nothing else if she had done nothing else in her career like erase Pocahontas like she was a singing voice of Pocahontas she did Les Mis and Rags in the same Broadway season she belted her brains out for Rags and then sang classical soprano as Cosette in Les Mis yeah she's what a man she's the she's the absolute real deal one of my favorite voices and then you see her in this show and she is so grounded and so once again nuanced perfectly cast giving voice to this person that you never hear about if anything these characters are reduced to a Will and Grace type moment where it's like oh I fall in love with the gay guy and here she is dealing with true heartbreak of living day in and day out with a man who's not willing to talk about their actual relationship and the kind of deep dark secrets that lie at the bottom of it yeah so Judy Kuhn for the win in my book yeah she's amazing and that's what this song is about by the end of the song she says I have suffered through this marriage day in and day out and I am pleading with you to not give up your days like I have mine this is so heartbreaking it is so heartbreaking ah so then Bruce asks medium Alison if she'd like to go for a ride like a drive in the car and the time comes and you know adult Alison who is constantly watching all of this and commenting on all of these events that we've discussed in this episode looks around and realizes

[1:06:10] Alyssa M Simmons: And by the end of the drive, nothing's been said. This is one of the reasons why I think that the original staging worked so well. When I saw this in the proscenium at the Amundsen, I didn't feel like this moment was enough. I thought, oh, finally, we're getting something from adult Alison. And then nothing happened. And I thought, how sad that we didn't get anything from our lead protagonist. And then when I saw how it was staged originally, with her being so like integrated and almost like a part of the audience, because she was constantly turning around and talking to different sides of the audience, you're rooting for her to have this moment with her dad. And so then when it doesn't come, you feel even more connected to her than you did before.

[1:07:01] Jeff Parsons: Yep.

[1:07:02] Alyssa M Simmons: I just I can't believe I had such two polar opposite experiences watching this.

[1:07:05] Jeff Parsons: That's so interesting, but makes complete sense to me.

[1:07:05] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah.

[1:07:06] Alyssa M Simmons: It's a testament to like, you know, direction and staging and the trickiness of trying to maneuver in it on a, you know, in a touring space. Because the thing is, like, you're not going to have what you had at Circle in the Square or The Public. You're just not.

[1:07:21] Jeff Parsons: Right.

[1:07:21] Alyssa M Simmons: Like you might you might get one spot out of your whole tour, but probably not because they have to be big houses because they want to make the monies.

[1:07:29] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[1:07:29] Alyssa M Simmons: But I can totally see how that would have been lost on you with the proscenium staging.

[1:07:34] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, it's just interesting. Because that is that is the moment. I mean, you need and crave that. And then when it doesn't come, it's like, oh, my gosh, no, no, no, no.

[1:07:47] Alyssa M Simmons: And to make it even more tragic, that was the last moment they really had together before he dies. This gives way to I mean, he's kind of poured himself into this project like, you know, he made his home this museum piece. Now he's restoring a different home and is almost like working maniacally on it.

[1:08:12] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[1:08:12] Alyssa M Simmons: And he explores all of that in the song called Edges of the World, which is really a soliloquy in many ways that ends with him stepping in front of traffic and being killed, which when I put myself in Alison's shoes, you see how deeply he was triggered by your own coming out. And you realize, oh, my gosh, like there is a degree of her taking that on of taking on her father's death and feeling responsible for it. And how has that fueled her sense of humor or her sense of worth? And all of a sudden, everything starts making sense that you've seen throughout the rest of the show.

[1:08:58] Jeff Parsons: But in a perfect moment of musical theaterness, what we are ended with are the three Alisons all coming together that regardless of, you know, who dad was, we need to feel like a whole person.

[1:09:17] Alyssa M Simmons: Right.

[1:09:19] Alyssa M Simmons: And the last number is called Flying Away, which obviously refers back to the game of flying that that small Alison did with her father, you know, right at the beginning of the show. And the way that she says it is so beautiful, saying that this was a perfect moment of balance where I was soaring above him. And yet it's only because she was on his feet. Like, are you kidding me?

[1:09:48] Jeff Parsons: I know it's just it's like totally rip your heart out, because the thing is, and she knows that even though it was tragic and her dad was so tormented that without his existence, she wouldn't be able to have hers.

[1:10:02] Alyssa M Simmons: Exactly.

[1:10:04] Alyssa M Simmons: Both metaphorically and I mean, and literally. Yeah.

[1:10:10] Alyssa M Simmons: She wouldn't be alive. And because she fought so hard to live the opposite of her father, basically, she was able to and continues as real life Alison Bechdel to be a functioning, happy human being. I think that I sat in the theater for like 15 minutes after just like I wasn't really crying, but I was just like sitting there trying to digest everything that just that I just saw washed over.

[1:10:34] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[1:10:40] Alyssa M Simmons: I don't know. I don't even know what to say other than I love that this was an experience like that for you. I think in a lot of ways it was I think it just felt just like that Ring of Keys song, it felt so nice to to be represented. Like this wasn't a punchline of something and this wasn't like an angry lesbian duet. And this wasn't a one off character on a sitcom. This wasn't the Home Depot worker. It wasn't any of those things. It was this really sad but really important story about a family and how Alison fit in her family and how she survived and how they survived.

[1:11:29] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, that's great. What do you think the legacy of the show is? I remember reading the story that like, some UN officials had been taken to the Broadway production of Fun Home because their home countries, it was still illegal to be gay. And so the Americans who took them thought that it would be a good teaching opportunity for them. I honestly don't think that was a good decision. Did not go did not go well. I mean, maybe it was I don't know. I'm sure that they were very kind and diplomatic because they're literally diplomats. But also, like, I don't know if this is that story. This feels like such a Western story.

[1:12:14] Alyssa M Simmons: Very, this is a Western story for sure. And I think that the show will still have a life like, you know, in the past couple of years, we've seen some like regional productions done. They're generally in like smaller spaces and like fairly liberal communities.

[1:12:35] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[1:12:35] Alyssa M Simmons: But yeah, it's interesting. And I could talk about this next thing for like a really long time, but I'm gonna have it be short. I've been in for the show a couple of times, but I'm in a weird age range. I'm, I'm in the middle of medium and adult. So in in like 10 years, I hopefully will get to play adult Alison, but I've passed. I've passed medium. When I went in for the show a couple of times, I was the only queer woman brought in for the role, really, which is an interesting topic of conversation. And we're actors. So we play lots of different types of roles. I'm not saying that a gay woman is the only person that could ever do play a gay woman medium and adult Alison. Like, that's not what I'm saying at all.

[1:13:27] Alyssa M Simmons: But what I am saying is that those are the only roles. It was it was just interesting to me. It was kind of like a weird out of body experience, because I knew the other girls that were in for the productions that I was in for. So I wasn't just like assuming things about people's sexualities. I know that they are straight people.

[1:13:42] Jeff Parsons: Sure.

[1:13:42] Alyssa M Simmons: It's just interesting. And like one of them told me like, Oh, yeah, like I specifically like I figured you'd be in for this, but I like thought of you in deciding what I would wear for this audition. So it's just like, it's an interesting thing to have a conversation about because a lot of times when I'm brought in for specific things, I'm told that I'm not feminine enough, or that I don't read girly enough or hold myself girly enough, whatever, whatever it may be. But the interesting thing is that these ingenue women who are also getting those, those roles are also getting to play the gay women roles. So that's a conversation that I think people should start having. Because it's a conversation to ask why. And yeah, is there something that we're not understanding about the queer experience that when we see queer people living their experience, we're like, well, that's not it, you know?

[1:14:49] Jeff Parsons: Right.

[1:14:49] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah. It's just, it's an interesting thing to think about. And if you are a queer person to ask those sort of difficult questions, and yeah, I agree with you. And I also think that the conversation I would add to yours is, are we making liberal theater for liberal people? If that's the case, then we're maybe not having the kind of outreach that we could.

[1:15:13] Jeff Parsons: I totally agree with that.

[1:15:19] Alyssa M Simmons: Once again, I was all by myself, like battling things out. I am really good at arguing the conservative case for things. Because I argued myself for so long. And I think that many a conservative audience would see this show and think, oh, that poor confused girl, too bad she didn't have a father who cared enough to hide it better.

[1:15:39] Jeff Parsons: Right.

[1:15:39] Alyssa M Simmons: Because from our perspective, from a more progressive perspective, we're like, absolutely, this person should have lived their truth. But if you don't believe that is truth, then the failure was the dad who just didn't do his job as a dad. End of story. So I would love to encourage us as theater people to also create queer theater that is meant to not appease a straight audience. I don't need like a Dear Simon or anything like that. Or was it not Dear Simon, Love Simon?

[1:16:18] Jeff Parsons: Oh, I did. I didn't even like that.

[1:16:18] Alyssa M Simmons: And I was like, yeah, that's what that movie is. But like creating stuff that encourages us to have conversation regardless of what our opinions are.

[1:16:22] Jeff Parsons: Yes, I like that a lot.

[1:16:28] Alyssa M Simmons: I don't know. I'm not like I said, I'm not saying the Fun Home isn't that. But based on my own experience, if my hometown did Fun Home at their community theater, that's what I imagined.

[1:16:41] Jeff Parsons: That's what.

[1:16:41] Alyssa M Simmons: Yeah, sure.

[1:16:51] Jeff Parsons: Thank you so much for doing this, Alyssa.

[1:16:51] Alyssa M Simmons: Oh, my gosh.

[1:16:51] Jeff Parsons: Oh, wow.

[1:16:51] Alyssa M Simmons: Thank you so much, Alyssa.

[1:16:51] Jeff Parsons: Of course. I've been saying Alison for like two hours.

[1:17:02] Alyssa M Simmons: No, thank you.

[1:17:02] Jeff Parsons: Thank you, Alyssa, for doing this. This was a wonderful conversation.

[1:17:07] Alyssa M Simmons: Yes, thank you for having me.

[1:17:12] Jeff Parsons: Oh, my goodness. My pleasure. As always, if you have any recommendations for shows that we cover here on A Musical Theatre Podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast@gmail.com. Also, be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at amusicalpodcast for more great content. Alyssa, how can we follow you? And also, please plug your podcast.

[1:17:29] Alyssa M Simmons: Oh, sure. My Instagram is @alyssamsimmons. And I'm also a co-host on a Star Wars podcast called Inside the Tauntaun with some fellow Star Wars nerds and amigos of mine, Daniel Dawson and Dino Nicandros. So you can find us anywhere you listen to podcasts at Inside the Tauntaun and on all of the social medias.

[1:17:55] Jeff Parsons: You could not find three more talented Star Wars nerds if you tried.

[1:18:02] Alyssa M Simmons: Oh, thank you.

[1:18:09] Alyssa M Simmons: Anyways, if you like Star Wars or even if you don't, you just want to listen to us be ridiculous. You can listen.

[1:18:15] Jeff Parsons: That's fantastic. Thank you again, Alyssa. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Go have some fun. And by fun, I mean fun. Not fun as in funeral. Actual fun is really fun. Bye, everybody.