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[0:01] Jordan Dobson: Also, one more thing about "Where Do I Go?" Just as an actor point of view, the biggest acting exercise in the world is to get people to hear what you're saying when there are naked people behind you. Because I'm talking to the audience. I'm asking them, where do I go? And you know those exercises in school where your acting teacher is like, I'm walking away, make me turn around with your monologue? It's that times ten. People are naked behind me and I'm belting my face off. I'm over here even opting up. People tell you don't work with animals or children. I'll tell you something else. Naked adults. Exactly that. The people looking around, trying to get me to move out of the way. And so it's the biggest compliment when someone's like, you were so, you know, riveting in "Where Do I Go?" I'm like, thank you for watching my side of the stage.

[1:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today we are discussing the rock musical "Hair," which was a listener request from past podcast guest Sadie Bowman, who wrote in and said that she, okay, this is actually kind of a funny story. She and her partner Ricky were staying at an Airbnb and they found some silly pop music trivia board game in the living room like you do. And now I'm going into her quote. "Age of Aquarius" came up as an answer. We were both surprised, me as much as him, to learn that I somehow knew all of the lyrics.

That led us to some questions about the musical "Hair," to which I replied something to the effect of, we'll have to find an episode of a musical theater podcast to find that out. Oh, that's so sweet. So I immediately combed the archives and unless I'm missing it, I think the world needs an episode about "Hair." We all have so many questions. I mean so many questions. Can you help? Unquote. Well, Sadie, the short answer is yes. The long answer is I started trying to make this episode literally years ago when you emailed me and got really close. But each time, and this has happened several times, I had a great guest lined up, someone who was super bohemian, and I guess maybe they were too bohemian because they both either canceled last minute or ghosted me completely.

I'm serious. I don't know why that was a thing, but it happened. So I'm thrilled to finally be chatting about this show at a time when it maybe feels more relevant than ever. Not to mention discussing it with someone who was well worth the wait. He's currently doing the show. He's playing Claude. He's a big old Broadway star having been seen as Orpheus in "Hadestown," Shiloh in "A Beautiful Noise," which quietly may be one of the biggest hits recently on Broadway, just kind of quietly changing the game over there. Tony in "West Side Story" Revival and The Prince in "Bad Cinderella." All of that happened in a little over a year. Right, Jordan?

[3:28] Jordan Dobson: Yeah.

[3:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's absolutely crazy. That's such a sweet introduction. Well, I'm not done yet. Hold on. Now people get to enjoy him outside the Manhattan Theatre District at the Signature Theatre's production of "Hair" in Arlington, Virginia. The show runs until July 7th. Everyone, please welcome Jordan Dobson!

[3:48] Jordan Dobson: Thank you so much. Oh my gosh. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.

[3:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm so grateful you're here. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Tell me, how are things going there at the Signature? Because this isn't the first time you've done the show, right?

[4:01] Jordan Dobson: Right, right. This is my second time doing the show and playing Claude. It's super exciting. I mean, this show never gets old and never gets boring and it only becomes more relevant. So, yeah. It's kind of all-encompassing, this show. And the other thing is it's a marathon to do, especially as Claude. You don't really leave the stage ever. So, my life kind of revolves around making it through the show.

[4:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And high energy, too, right? For as chill and relaxed as we tend to think that hippies are, "Hair" is a high-energy mother-effer.

[4:40] Jordan Dobson: Oh my goodness. When I first got the offer to do "Hair" the first time, I was like, oh, this is great. I'll be out of the city and we'll just be skipping around, singing songs in sandals. No, it's one of the hardest shows I've ever done. It's so high energy.

[4:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the idea of the tribe, now that you've done it a couple times, does it bring you close to each group in a different way?

[5:04] Jordan Dobson: It very much does, yeah. Because you have to share your thoughts and opinions on these really intense issues with these people. Almost immediately.

[5:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Immediately, yeah.

[5:16] Jordan Dobson: So, you really understand where everyone stands and where they're coming from and what their backgrounds are and why they believe what they believe so quickly. And also, the show is very intimate. So, physically, you're very intimate with people and you understand where their boundaries lie and what they are comfortable with.

[5:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What a beautiful experience to get to practice that. You know what I mean? I think that when we're doing theater, the rehearsal is such a gift because when in life do you get to rehearse life?

[5:50] Jordan Dobson: Yes, yes, I completely agree. Rehearsal's my favorite.

[5:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so, the idea that you have all of this maybe intimacy training or just opportunities to get really close to people and practice that in a safe environment, what a gift that I wish more people had in their lives.

[6:07] Jordan Dobson: I agree. It's such a blessing.

[6:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How cool. It really makes you rethink how you live your own life. When you have the opportunity to practice with other people, you go outside of the rehearsal room and you're like, hmm, am I checking in and respecting everyone's boundaries in my own life?

[6:21] Jordan Dobson: Seriously. Absolutely. I love that.

[6:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, I'm really excited to dive into the show and there's so much to chat about. So, let's do it. We're going to go back in time. We're going to talk about the year 1968, which was one of the craziest years in the 20th century, at least in the United States. So, in 1968 alone, the Vietnam War really blows up. Martin Luther King Jr. is assassinated. The Civil Rights Act is passed into legislation under President Johnson. Richard Nixon was elected president. Somehow all of that happened in the same year. And then, if that wasn't enough, the musical "Hair" opens on Broadway. And when you look in the big picture of it all, "Hair" was really a response to all of that and it had something in common with another response to that.

It was a social revolution that had hit mainstream basically by 1967, which was the year of the Summer of Love, and we might talk more about that later. But this rise of the hippies, if we want to just call it something super basic, it had hit mainstream by 1967. And so then, I want to put a pin here because this isn't something that happens very often in musical theater history. Usually, we don't move super quick as an art form. Musical theater is difficult to create, usually takes a lot of time. And yet, here is an example where in 1967, 100,000 hippies gather in San Francisco, huge media storm, and then less than a year later, "Hair" has opened on Broadway. Yeah, usually it takes many, many years, and the topic that the musical is about has already passed.

We've already settled, had our views on it. Not this time. Not the case here. And I think in all of the turbulence of this time, it's a really great representation of how quickly things were happening. It felt like every time you turned around, something new, whether it was along the lines of the establishment or kind of springing up as counterculture, all coming to head at the same time.

[8:37] Jordan Dobson: Now, "Hair's" piece of that is all because of two guys, James Rado, Jerome Ragney. And for those who know the show, and you certainly do, they are essentially Claude and Berger.

[8:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. So these two met in the early 1960s doing an off-Broadway show and pretty quickly started writing together, just like pulling from their experiences, personalities. James Rado was much more of the Claude and maybe had some conflicting feelings about what he believed. And then Jerome Ragney was 100% just like...

[9:15] Jordan Dobson: So out there and free-spirited.

[9:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Free-spirited, 100%. The Berger.

[9:21] Jordan Dobson: The Berger life.

[9:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And there was this quote where they basically said they knew what was happening around them was important. And by writing together, that's how they were going to document it. They wanted people to remember what was happening. They keep working in off-Broadway experimental theater, and it seems like every time they did a show, there was even one they did called "Viet Rock," I think, which is like, you know, it's exactly what it sounds like. But as they did all of these different shows, they collected more themes, clearly war being one of them, as well as techniques for creating that, like, experimental vibe that they wanted to make. And I also believe, and please let me know if this rings true for you, that a lot of that continues today with every production of the show, of "Hair." Like, there's no way you're not starting out the process with some breath work or improv or something. You know what I mean? You don't just sit around and start the show like you would "Oklahoma."

[10:24] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, I don't know. What do you think?

[10:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, no, you're not really, like, starting with a table read and music rehearsal. Yeah, I mean, the show is like devised theater, and it feels that way. When you watch it, when you do it, it's a series of vignettes. So, yeah, you're kind of getting out of your comfort zone as you're starting rehearsal because of the way the show is built.

[10:48] Jordan Dobson: Boundary practice was, I think, my favorite thing, whereas we all touched the areas of our bodies on ourselves where we were comfortable being touched and then skipped parts and, like, created a fence with our arms around parts of our bodies that we don't want to be touched. And then everyone in the cast would put their hand on your hand and you would do it again, go through your whole body, and they would also feel the parts of your body. And after that, they would name the parts that you felt comfortable with and name the parts that you were uncomfortable with. So we all started to memorize where everyone felt okay with being embraced. And I thought that was such a beautiful thing because you find out so much about a person through an exercise like that, not just about their comfortability, but just about who they are and their personality and how they carve through space in the world. And I didn't expect it to be so revealing.

[11:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[11:45] Jordan Dobson: Which I loved. Now I'm sitting here thinking about where I'd say yes and no.

[11:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, and it can change day to day, which is a beautiful thing. You know what I mean? Like, I can't help but feel like if I were lucky enough to get hired, we'd start that, and I'd be like, I guess I should have put on my resume that I have a really big bubble. I can't be touched at all.

[12:10] Jordan Dobson: And that is completely okay.

[12:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: There's nothing wrong with it.

[12:13] Jordan Dobson: Thank you.

[12:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you for making me feel seen, Jordan. I appreciate that. So, Rado and Ragni keep writing, and they basically write the entire show. They write all the songs without any music.

[12:28] Jordan Dobson: Yeah.

[12:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's all totally done, yeah? Have you heard this?

[12:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Friend who then introduced them to Galt McDermott. Now, I assumed that Mr. McDermott, especially when you look at his works that he wrote through musical theatre, HAIR probably being his most popular, but he also did Two Gentlemen of Verona, which also very much had like a groovy vibe, and Via Galactica. I don't know if you've ever heard of that flop, but it's fascinating.

[13:07] Jordan Dobson: I don't know that one.

[13:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: There were like trampolines on the stage. Anyway, it took place in outer space.

[13:13] Jordan Dobson: Sounds fun.

[13:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I really assumed that he was just like these two, but literally never met anyone who considered themselves a hippie until he started writing the music for HAIR.

[13:25] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, they said he was a very like stand-up guy, very by the book, but was also just trying to make it just like they were as actors with him as a composer.

[13:36] Jordan Dobson: And mad props to this guy to be able to sit down with all of those words and be like, I got this.

[13:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. That's what I don't understand.

[13:42] Jordan Dobson: I know exactly how this sounds.

[13:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[13:45] Jordan Dobson: But also listening to the score, you can absolutely see how it was words first, then music, right?

[13:53] Jordan Dobson: Definitely, which as an actor, trying to figure out the phrasing of some of this is not the easiest thing to really get a certain sentence across when the sentence is broken up a bit. And then there's sometimes, which I imagine are happy accidents, where it's broken up in the most beautiful way where you wouldn't expect. So I really like that about it. But I agree. You can tell that the words were first.

[14:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You got a lot of words. I got my...

[14:25] Jordan Dobson: I got my...

[14:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Just lists and lists and lists.

[14:29] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, no time to breathe. That song is cardio for me.

[14:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What is oxygen? Who needs it?

[14:37] Jordan Dobson: And then hair is pretty similar, too. The number hair.

[14:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: True. Because words, words, words, and then sustained notes.

[14:44] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, yeah. While you're jumping around. And I think there's one number in between that, that I have a second to breathe. And then I'm like, and now let's do hair.

[14:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's crazy.

[14:59] Jordan Dobson: The Age of Aquarius. This is an actual thing, right?

[15:03] Jordan Dobson: I found this quote. Astrologers believe that an astrological age affects humanity, possibly by influencing the rise and fall of civilizations or cultural tendencies.

[15:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: This is the opening of hair, but it also feels in many ways like the thesis statement of the show. This time period, whether it's astrologically correct or not, and I don't think it is, if you actually get down to the stars of it.

[15:31] Jordan Dobson: Well, there's a huge debate amongst astrologers.

[15:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is there really?

[15:36] Jordan Dobson: Huge debate. Some people say that we are in the Age of Aquarius now. Some people say that it was back then and spanning until now. Some people say it hasn't even begun, that it's about to begin.

[15:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting.

[15:48] Jordan Dobson: I won't join that debate, but I find it very interesting.

[15:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Seriously, what is your sign, by the way?

[15:54] Jordan Dobson: I'm a Virgo.

[15:55] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, I'm a Virgo Sun, Virgo Moon, and then Cancer Rising.

[16:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my goodness.

[16:01] Jordan Dobson: Very, very Virgo.

[16:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so sweet.

[16:04] Jordan Dobson: How about you?

[16:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I am surrounded by Virgos in my life. I don't know. I guess I just love them dearly. But I have two really important people in my life who were born on September 11th, one on September 12th. It's crazy the amount of Virgo.

[16:18] Jordan Dobson: Oh, and I'm September 13th.

[16:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And 13! Hello! Amazing.

[16:23] Jordan Dobson: I am Leo, but Cuspish. I'm like Leo Virgo Sun sign.

[16:30] Jordan Dobson: And then Aries Moon. So I got a lot of fire sign in my life.

[16:34] Jordan Dobson: And then Cancer Rising, which I always assumed to be the reason why I want to be a father.

[16:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my goodness.

[16:42] Jordan Dobson: It's always the Cancer Moon being like, but you also really need to nurture someone and help them into life.

[16:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So we share that Cancer Rising. That's my rising as well. I love it.

[16:54] Jordan Dobson: I also have a friend who says, oh, Cancer Rising. So that means you're secretly a crazy person.

[16:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right, right.

[17:01] Jordan Dobson: You don't let people know until they really know you.

[17:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. Until you really let people in. I would, I would attest to that. Yeah, it's true.

[17:09] Jordan Dobson: You don't. Why not? Own it.

[17:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Anyway, so this time period, obviously being one of change, of, like this says, the rise and fall of civilizations, of cultural tendencies. There was a lot of trust the government. There was a lot of trust, just trust America. They know what's best or they're looking out for you. And then in during this time period, when Vietnam is happening, when people are fighting so hard for rights for people of all colors, creeds, genders, et cetera, then there was a lot more questioning. And then when you look at what's happening right now, say with the Palestinian and Israel conflict and how young people are responding to that, man, it feels like an interesting time to be doing hair.

[18:06] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, it very much is. I mean, we, we talk about it often when the Israel and Palestine conflict really came about. I mean, it's been going on for so many years, but when it like...

[18:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Far longer than we joined the conversation.

[18:23] Jordan Dobson: Exactly. Yeah. So, so when we as America decided to understand what's going on is when I was doing hair the first time back in the fall. But it wasn't, it became popularized, which I hate to say, but that's what happened. You know, like, unfortunately, that is what happened.

[18:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, social media is social. So let's not forget that.

[18:49] Jordan Dobson: Exactly. So that happened in the middle of our run. And you could see the show land on audiences in a very different way. In the middle of our run, you saw a big shift. And then a lot more tears immediately. Immediately from the first time we protest in the show after Sheila enters the stage, a lot more tears because there was no, you couldn't, you couldn't not make the parallel.

[19:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How do I want to say it?

[19:18] Jordan Dobson: You couldn't ignore the similarities.

[19:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. You couldn't ignore it whatsoever. And that's, that's when it took on a new meaning for the audiences and for us. And then now to be doing it again, in the height of, I mean, this devastation is, it's extremely emotional for everyone involved, for the cast, for the audience, for the creative team.

[19:42] Jordan Dobson: Yeah.

[19:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, how do you, when you're looking back at history, in particular, this time that you're living in on stage, and I say this and I don't want it to sound cynical. Do you think that anything really came of it?

[19:56] Jordan Dobson: I do. That's the thing that makes it so devastating is it's so easy to feel like nothing has changed. We're right back where we are. But I mean, that's, that's the issue I have right now with like, talking about this country is that this country is so often on the wrong side of history. And, and continues to, to double down on being on the wrong side of history. I mean, I think of the Columbia protests, and the President of Columbia calling the police on its own students, almost 60 years to the day of, of Columbia students protesting the Vietnam War. It can make you feel helpless. But I think the fact that young people still feel like we have a voice, and we have the capacity for change, lets us know that it was for something.

We haven't given up and just sat there and sat and taken, or witnessed genocide and said, we're gonna, we're gonna just like watch and let the leaders of our country handle this the way they, however way they want to handle it. So the fact that it is still happening, obviously upsetting, but the fact that people still protest and make their voices heard, I think is the big takeaway.

[21:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And change can happen that way. So I completely agree. Thank you for sharing that. I also think that there are two ways to look at it. You can look at it and say, oh, it's just happening all over again. There's no hope. Or you could say, we didn't break this all by ourselves. Our leaders aren't the worst leaders that have ever existed. This is a human problem that probably has always existed. And as humanity, we will continue to work on it. And I always think about how Obama used to say that change, like meaningful change is slow.

[21:49] Jordan Dobson: Yeah. And when I look at the history of America, change has been slow, but the change has always been positive.

[22:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is true. It is true. And I mean, sometimes embarrassingly slow, but the change has been positive and specifically the change that has lasted.

[22:13] Jordan Dobson: Agreed. Sometimes it's taking one step forward and two steps back, but in the long run, you're still moving forward. It is just like not always the linear outcome that we desire, but it is happening.

[22:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. That our hearts are crying out to see it happen now.

[22:41] Jordan Dobson: If protest wasn't part of that, if speech wasn't part of that lasting change, then we wouldn't have rights to protect it. We wouldn't have freedoms to protect it.

[22:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. And so sometimes I can't draw a linear line between a bunch of people went to San Francisco and listened to music and this piece of legislation got signed. There probably isn't a linear connection to those two things. However, it is part of our way of life in this country, and I'm proud of that. Ultimately, I'm proud of that.

[23:10] Jordan Dobson: It had to happen. I even think of people talk about the parallels between Israel and Palestine and Vietnam War, which is like, you know, that is my job right now is like drawing these parallels while doing this musical.

[23:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[23:23] Jordan Dobson: And I just think, I mean, the main difference is that there was a draft and this country, I think, knows that it could not get away with a draft.

[23:34] Jordan Dobson: Can you imagine? They knew after the Vietnam War that that was the last draft that was possible. You know, because of this summer of love and these, you know, young kids of the counterculture protesting, there's no way in hell that we now believe in a country enough to go get drafted and fight for it in the sense of we don't agree with what we're fighting for. Like if we can't get on the same page of what we're fighting for, then a draft is not going to work. It would never happen nowadays, which is progress in my opinion.

[24:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Did you ever grow up with the fear of the draft? I definitely did. I remember in third grade was when Desert Storm happened. And I think that's when I learned about what the draft was. And I was terrified. I was in the third grade. What did I think? They were going to like, like, Jeffrey, we really need you to go take care of Saddam Hussein. That wasn't going to happen. But like, it gave me a lot of butterflies. I did not like that at all.

[24:36] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, yeah, totally understandable. I never had a fear of being drafted. But I had a fear of like, well, no, I mean, I guess what I'm about to say is like, that like that they'll send over cousins or, you know, like friends or uncles that I remember, I was always an anxious kid just being like, if there aren't enough people to volunteer, what happens?

[25:00] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, exactly. The Virgo really jumped out. And I started analyzing as a kid, if there aren't enough people that volunteer, what happens? And that's kind of how I learned about what a draft is. But I was very, very young at that time. And it wasn't until I got older that I started understanding. And then it wasn't until we learned about the Vietnam War in school. And the draft, not enough to be quite honest.

[25:28] Jordan Dobson: That's I was like wait this wasn't long enough and that's my grandpa. So I'm gonna go talk to pop-pop about like what happened. Did you have so you have family who served?

[25:40] No, but I had my grandpa who was that age and I was sure to ask him. My grandpa on my mom's side served for two seconds, but he was deaf and tricked the army that meant to think because he could read lips and got kicked out of the army because he was what a sweetheart he wanted to serve that badly.

[26:01] Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like yes, sweetheart, but also the pressure and sense of duty to your country, you know, which we talked about a lot here as very much Claude feels. But oh, hello. Then when I started researching Hair, I was asking my other grandpa like were you afraid of getting drafted?

[26:20] Hmm, and he was like, yeah, and so I kept having kids. Hi if I was I got married and I had kept having kid after kid after kid so I would not get drafted and I said so my dad was born. I just fear of the draft. Yes.

[26:34] Yeah, I'm like wow. This is how I am here. This is how I am here. I'm kind of wild and he's not the only one.

[26:41] No, that makes absolute sense, right? Yeah. Create something so huge that it can't be moved or messed with. And it makes me think about wait, that was the boomer generation.

[26:57] Mm-hmm, baby boomer dinner. I'm like did that have something, you know, like so many questions arise of like how all of these things affected each other?

[27:03] Yeah, or how well just I and I would say even stepping back a little bit more how much war affects that because certainly the boomer generation was affected by World War II coming home staring at death, staring death in the face constantly and all of these guys come home and are like, please. I want a family. I want every house to look exactly the same. I want consistency. I want rules. I want order.

[27:30] Yeah, because this chaos has absolutely devastated my life, you know, right?

[27:37] Yeah, I don't know if any was anybody was really in touch with their feelings and literally enough to be able to say those things, but I feel like that's under the surface right under the surface.

[27:47] 1 million percent the like frenzy of these wars on both ends affecting an entire generation. It's wild to step back and think about.

[27:59] Alright, so let's go back to the creation of Hair. Galt McDermott comes in, writes the music, they get a show together and they start pitching it and nobody wants it.

[28:15] It's like that sequence in Singing in the Rain where Gene Kelly's like gotta dance and then he like knocks on the door.

[28:20] Yeah, shut in his face every single time. Enter Joseph Papp, who's basically the character who enters whenever I get to this type of point in the story.

[28:31] Joseph Papp, he's the creator of the New York Shakespearean Festival, which the idea was to create Shakespeare in the park in Central Park for free that it should be a right for people to go and enjoy art and the words of Shakespeare just as people should be able to enjoy the nature in the park.

[28:47] People should be able to enjoy art. Nature and art, they're basically the same thing. Hair was the first time, and I hope I'm getting this right, Hair was the first time that he decided maybe there are some new works that can be involved in the New York Shakespearean Festival.

[29:08] That new vote that it doesn't just have to be old Bill Shakespeare. There can be some new voices and that also coincides with him beginning the Public Theater, which we of course know to at this point is one of the most famous theater companies in New York City nonprofits.

[29:29] Yeah, definitely. So Hair becomes their inaugural production and seriously god bless him for taking the chance on this thing that literally nobody else would.

[29:42] And then it is because they found him on the train. They just went up to him on the subway and...

[29:47] Really? Oh my gosh. I didn't hear this. Please tell me.

[29:51] Yeah, either James or Jerome went up to him, like just saw him on the train and was like, this is our shot. This is our shot and just like gave it to him was like, please, please just read this and like see how you feel and then he like read it that night and was like, okay.

[30:08] Just like to two random guys on the train coming up to you. And I read that somewhere so someone can check that, but that but I mean it makes as much sense as anything about this the creation of this show, you know, like it might as well as venture even if it isn't that it's absolutely incredible.

[30:27] So they do the show off-Broadway and it's a breath of fresh air. It's unlike anything that's ever been done before. What's interesting is that it doesn't immediately go to Broadway. It goes instead to a nightclub.

[30:41] Yeah. How cool a couple weeks of performances at this random nightclub? They keep making changes to the show and then from there, then it goes to Broadway. It opens on Broadway in 1968 right after the Tony cutoff deadline for the 1967 season.

[31:03] 1967-1968 and they pleaded and begged can we please be included in this season? But you know rules were rules and so they had to wait clear until 1969 to be eligible for any Tony Awards.

[31:19] By that point, by the time that the Tony Awards come around, Hair is huge like it is a big old smash musical which means that it won zero Tony Awards.

[31:32] Of course, isn't that crazy? And they often talk you read interviews with the cast and the creatives. They talk about how they were really met with a lot of pushback from the theater establishment and I can sometimes see things both ways where I'm like, well, they couldn't let you be in the Tony season before that's just how things are.

[31:58] Like if you didn't if you didn't open up past the date, that's just how it is. I'm don't take it personally, but then to know like what a huge big deal it was and then it didn't get squat from the Tony Awards.

[32:14] When they performed on the Tony Awards, they weren't given a soundcheck from what I read.

[32:21] Really?

[32:22] Yeah, they were the cast was put down in like some corner in the basement. Like can you imagine the biggest show of the season? Not getting a soundcheck, not getting like the beautiful green room with all of the spread?

[32:36] Right.

[32:41] Yeah, because you think like oh the Tony Awards like sometimes the shows that are already so big and huge like do not need the clout of having a Tony where sometimes it's a lesser-known show that really deserves a shot that and I don't know how it all works.

[32:59] Don't know one. I've never been to the Tony's anybody so I don't know how it works, but it seems that it's like oh, well, let's give it to this because it kind of needs it, you know, it's gonna be fine.

[33:08] Yeah, well, we're gonna be talking about that in an episode coming up soon.

[33:12] Yeah, you're exactly right. It's interesting how sometimes you're in town will win best book and best score but then Thoroughly Modern Millie will win best musical or the other way around where Wicked doesn't win and then Avenue Q gets everything.

[33:29] So it just really depends on the voters.

[33:32] Yeah, that is so true. But to not have a soundcheck that's starting to feel personal. I'm like that's messed up y'all.

[33:38] Exactly, I think they always felt even though they were this huge hit I feel like once again, just from what I've read, they always felt they were a little bit on the outside looking in.

[33:50] Which means that Rado and Ragni, which by the way Jerome plays Berger in the original cast of Hair. Rado doesn't play Claude. They ever I guess the consensus was that he looked too old to be in the tribe.

[34:06] Yeah, so he didn't play Claude. But Jerome Ragni did play Berger and they were very very hands-on because of that with all of the companies that spring up whether it's national tours or you know, so on and so forth.

[34:25] And yeah, as they're working on it, they keep changing the show. They keep writing new scenes. They keep writing new songs and then there's this kind of heat that builds up in New York because they would come back after working on these other productions and they would want to put all of the changes into the New York show and the producers would be like, no, no, no.

[34:48] That's not what we do.

[34:52] Yeah, I have this interview that I want to play for you and it's so perfect because it's the two of them talking about this particular time and situation and you both understand what they're saying and also these two guys are the kinds of people who wear like tinkling bells on their wrists to a radio interview.

[35:13] And so throughout the interview you just hear the rattling of bells and you're like, okay, so I see it both ways.

[35:22] Like we're very firm.

[35:32] No, no, no, you know, it's absolutely hilarious, but it gives you a perfect kind of picture of who we were messing with at this time.

[35:41] As we've been going from production to production, we've worked on the show with each new show. We make something better. We'll rewrite, do something a little different. Then we would try to bring stuff back to New York, but they thought we were going a bit far.

[35:49] Well, I'll tell you what you see, you see like musicals, Broadway musicals. They think that once you put a play on, it stays the same. They never had anything like Hair, you know, where it changes all the time.

[36:07] They think that it's like Hello Dolly, the lines are kept exactly the same night after night. So we told them we want to put new songs in and they said what? Oh, no, we got a good hit here. It's making a lot of money and we're satisfied with it. No changes.

[36:26] Who said that?

[36:26] The management.

[36:26] You know the establishment of Hair and we said the hair grows and I don't care it doesn't it grows it does, you know, and we wanted to do it.

[36:36] I love that so much. Hair grows. I don't know what to tell you guys. That is so great.

[36:43] And he didn't have to explain anything more than that. Hair grows, man. We want to do it. Hair finally gets its Tony glory with the revival in the early 2010s that Diane Paulus did, but because of all of these changes, figuring out what like version of Hair to do was kind of an interesting thing for them.

[37:00] Here's a quote from her. Let's see if I can find this one.

[37:10] She said the first script I looked at was actually an old paperback book that the artistic director of the Public Theater had picked up years ago in a secondhand store.

[37:21] It was the script from the off-Broadway production that opened at the Public in '67. I was subsequently sent the script representing the Broadway production of Hair that opened on April 1968.

[37:32] I was amazed at how different the two versions were. At my first meeting with composer Galt McDermott and writer Jim Rado, I told them how passionate I was about having the opportunity to give the next generation of audiences who were too young to have seen Hair on Broadway like me the chance to finally experience the show live.

[37:51] After the meeting, Jim Rado walked me to the subway and told me about other versions of the script that he had been working on for the last 40 years. You might want to take a look at those too.

[38:01] So this began this like in-depth process to create what I assume is what you guys are working with now. Do you know um, well, I think that's to me in my experience.

[38:12] Jordan Dobson: That seems to be the case with every production of HAIR. Like, what version are we going to do and are we allowed to do? In both productions I've done, they have, you know, used bits of the original and then bits of the revival. And I know there's a whole thing with rights there, but, and especially like arrangements and things like that. I think we are doing the original with some changes. Oh, interesting. No, I don't think they're revival changes, though. I think we just like took out some lines here and there that were either hard to make work or maybe didn't make sense to modern audiences or... Exactly. And especially, you know, like we have Claude Schiele and Berger, all of color, we're all black, mixed race, you know, so that adds a new element.

And same as I did last time, me and Schiele. So, yeah, I think people often mess with HAIR and take bits that they like from either production or either script that they can get their hands on, which is really cool. I think every production of HAIR is a little different. And then you look at the film version of HAIR, which was also, I think... Oh my gosh. Pretty sizable hit, but it is completely different.

[39:30] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, the ending is drastically different, which is wild. I was shocked to see it.

[39:34] Jordan Dobson: It's interesting because I don't think Rado and Ragnar really liked where the film went. So, I guess hair grows, but I think as writers, they wanted to have maybe a say in the direction that the hair grows in.

[39:47] Jeff Parsons: Right, right. How to style the hair.

[39:49] Jordan Dobson: I remember seeing that movie and that's before PG-13 existed. So, I just went to the local blockbuster or whatever and was like, hey, mom, can I get HAIR? And she's like, what's it rated? I'm like, well, it's a musical and it's PG. She's like, sure. I'm like, well, I guess that was my first time seeing pubic hair on film, you know? Yeah, literally, though. It's pretty out there. Such an interesting show. Such an interesting piece in general. Can we talk through some of the show and score? And I want to hear any insights you might have or any of your favorite moments in it.

[40:32] Jordan Dobson: Oh, yeah, yeah. There's so much I love about the show. Yeah, there is so much. So, as we said before, the show opens with Aquarius and we meet the tribe. And I think that for our purposes today, we can just talk about some of the different members. We've got Berger. Is he considered the leader of the tribe? Is that fair?

[41:04] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, I guess so, in a sense. He presents himself that way.

[41:08] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, I see the tribe as having several leaders in different subjects, basically.

[41:14] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, different areas. But Berger is kind of like a spokesperson for the tribe in that sense.

[41:21] Jeff Parsons: I like that. So, maybe he's a mouthpiece, whereas maybe his organizational skills ain't so great.

[41:28] Jordan Dobson: Exactly. I think we turn to Sheila Franklin for some organic... Whoa, why can't I say that word? You know, she's organized.

[41:37] Jeff Parsons: She is.

[41:41] Jordan Dobson: You know, I think of her as a leader in social justice and fighting for what we believe in, whereas Berger is a leader in transcendentalism and in drugs and in a very escapist way of dropping out and tuning in. And then we have Dion, who is a leader in spirituality. Hud, who is a leader in civil rights. And Wolf, who is a leader in sexual liberation. You know? Wolf. What a cutie Wolf is.

[42:16] Jeff Parsons: We love Wolf. We love Wolf. Such great characters.

[42:20] Jordan Dobson: And so, I love that you've pointed out their different strengths, because you also, sometimes by saying it very outrightly, Sheila Franklin, second semester NYU, and she's a protester, we get to know some of their backgrounds. But this girl is going to college. She's enrolled, right? She's taking finals, you know, offstage. She's studying. Whereas Berger dropped out of high school, you know? So we have a full range of people with different interests, and I would like to think that nobody is being judged for them within the tribe.

[43:07] Jeff Parsons: Right. Yeah, I don't think anyone's being judged at all. There's conflict within the tribe, but I don't think there is much judgment. More so trying to get everyone to be their best selves. If you want to live up close with someone, then you got to know, like you said earlier, what areas are okay to touch and what areas aren't. And I think we see that throughout the show, where people are still people. They have insecurities, they have miscommunications, and it's about everybody trying to get on the same page, because deep down, they trust that they all want the same thing.

[43:44] Jordan Dobson: Correct. They trust that they are all fighting for the same causes, which is an all-encompassing fight of spreading more love in the world, whatever the issues may be.

[43:52] Jeff Parsons: That's beautiful. Each one of these individuals has a song to introduce themselves, and they're all maybe like one and a half to two minutes long, like not very long.

[44:01] Jordan Dobson: Right. So you look at the song list of this show, and it's vast. They're like, oh my gosh, there's so many songs. We will, of course, talk about Manchester, England, but are there any other ones that you want to talk about? Donna, Burger sings about how he's looking for my Donna. Who is Donna? Where is Donna? Is Donna a metaphor? What do you think?

[44:26] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, I think Donna is a metaphor for drugs in one sense, but also, Donna is a metaphor for a way to reach a higher plane, I think. To reach a higher plane, I think. To transcend. So we're all looking for how we can leave our physical bodies and have our mind go somewhere else. That's my interpretation of it. I'm sure people will have their own opinions, but that's what I think. The research that I've done, he's talking about being at the Summer of Love, San Francisco Psychedelic Virgin. In my mind, Burger went and came back and is telling us all about it. That's how the Summer of Love ended, right? It was with everybody saying, now take this and spread the good word. Don't come to San Francisco anymore.

There's nowhere to live. Homelessness has completely exploded. Huge rise. Are bad. So sorry about that. But now make this where you live. And that's what the tribe is receiving from Burger in that moment. Wolf, like you said, he is into, or I guess he's sexual liberation. And so his song is just about saying all of the words that your parents told you were bad.

[45:54] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. I mean, that's that entire song. It's like, why are we scared of these words? They're just natural things that we all should experience. Maybe not every single word. Don't quote me on that. Maybe not all back to back within the space of a minute and a half. That might be a little too much. But it's exactly as you said. Let's not be afraid of our bodies. I love that Hud declares himself the President of the United States of Love.

[46:22] Jordan Dobson: Yes. Yes. I think it's such a beautiful moment. And then we meet Claude. So talk to us about Claude, because he is definitely the most fleshed out character, I think, in the whole piece.

[46:33] Jeff Parsons: Right. He is yet so lost. Well, aren't they all?

[46:43] Jordan Dobson: The most fleshed out. The more we know about people, the more we know we don't know anything.

[46:48] Jeff Parsons: Exactly. And I kind of think that's the thing. You meet Claude and he has this alter ego of this guy from Manchester, England. He's doing this accent. He has an accent. He's not from England. He's not from England. And I think it's really fun when the accent is kind of bad, you know. And it's you're like, who the hell is he? And why do we care?

[47:07] Jordan Dobson: Right. And I think that's so young. He just seems so young to me.

[47:14] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. And how old are you, Jordan, by the way? I didn't ask.

[47:21] Jordan Dobson: Oh, I'm 27. God bless. Yeah. I feel like I moved to New York pretty young, like I moved right after college. And my Broadway debut, I was 22 and just lost. I didn't know what was going on. And they were like, you're playing Tony now go. And I was like, what is happening? Stephen Sondheim's right there. I don't know what's going on. You know, like, I just felt lost. I didn't know New York well at all. I was scared of it.

[47:44] Jeff Parsons: You're like jumping into a raging river.

[47:46] Jordan Dobson: Yeah. Which helps when playing Claude because, you know, yes, he's a part of this movement. He believes these things, but he doesn't quite understand everything. And he's not as full in this tribe as everyone else. He has one foot in that world and one foot in what we say the real world. I think that is the beautiful thing about the characters that the audience has a way in of like, this all is kind of out there. But this kid's just as lost as we are. So let's follow him. You know, he really is for me as someone who's just like vanilla boring white for the most part. He is he is my voice in the show. I guess I have. I still I mean, I grew up a boy. I mean, Eagle Scout Jordan. Yeah. So like I still I have I love my country and I love being the hope of the country as opposed to just lamenting the people.

I don't want to be the hope of the country. You know what I mean? Like I find a lot of energy in that. And I think Claude on some point at some point does, too. He's like, no, like it can't all be bad. Right. And he I think he finds a lot of solace in Sheila. He's like, well, she's protesting for something that really stands for something. And I watch on the TV every day about how I should be proud of my country and fight for my country. And that's what Sheila's doing in her way, you know?

[49:16] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. And I think that's the thing. He's he's looking for answers in the tribe until he realizes that maybe the answers aren't even there, which I find to be so devastating because he's even asking his parents for the answers and they're giving him nothing. You know, the parents, you know, it's so bizarre. But like he's he's really asking. He's like, I'm like, I'm Aquarius, destined for greatness or madness. Like I was I was raised to believe certain things. And, you know, he's just he's begging. He's he's quite literally begging. There's so many moments in the show where he's saying, Berger, Berger, help me. How am I? What do I do? If I go, this will happen. If I go, this will happen. And then Sheila is really the only one as he's, you know, really losing his shit at the end who he can lean on to be like, I'm lost and I don't know what to do.

[50:01] Jordan Dobson: Yeah. I think I always need people around me who help me to remember to celebrate because I tend to be so like work, work, work, work, work. And so I love that the tribe is always around to be like, no, I got my hair, I got my life, I got my butt, I got my, you know, whatever it is. There is a lot of celebration throughout this show that even if you don't have the answers, even if you're surrounded by people you consider enemies, there's still a lot to laugh at. There's still a lot to rejoice over. And and using that as your weapon in protest is, I think, sometimes even more effective than getting angry and throwing paint.

[50:57] Jordan Dobson: Are also prerogatives, but I love that about the show as well.

[51:01] Jeff Parsons: I agree. I agree. I think that was the hardest thing for me to understand because I was like, I just got my draft notice and I'm freaking out about it and now I'm about to sing the number "Hair." How? How? And that was like something I was really stuck and hung up on until, and in both productions, until I realized the tribe helps Claude remember that there is value in actually celebrating and spreading love and celebrating the way we live our lives. And that in and of itself is a protest. And that's kind of how I had to think about it to do it authentically. To be like, but my mind is still on the draft. As a very analytical person, we're talking about being a Virgo. Sure. I'm always thinking about that, but I love that you brought that up. It's such a good point.

[51:50] Jordan Dobson: Well, and young people, I don't know. Do young people go to the clubs? I don't know. Yeah, we go to the clubs. I don't know. Considering myself a young person, but like, and the ones younger than me, you know, I think you have to. I think I love the work hard, play hard mentality. That do a lip alive. Absolutely. Exactly. You gotta. So yeah, you know, you fight for what you believe in and then you go to the club and release it so that you can fight another day.

[52:21] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, you gotta. The big, I think the big conflict, well, I guess there are two big conflicts in the first act. Number one is the draft. Yes. There's this question of, will Claude burn his draft card with everybody else in the tribe or will he not? And the second big conflict is the yellow shirt, which I don't, can you talk us through this? Is there a greater symbol of the yellow shirt? Do you think then, then it just, cause it's very specifically a yellow shirt and I don't necessarily understand why.

[52:56] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, I think it is, you know, Sheila talks about in that scene, she goes, burger, I have plans for you. You know, like you have to grow up at some point. That's why she brings him the shirt. It is to me, it is like the next level that like fat, the next step that fashion goes after, you know, like we're wearing these rags and ripped up clothes and she goes, all right, like burger, take off that rag. I got you a button down yellow shirt and it's still groovy. It's yellow. It's the silk, you know, it's ushering us into the seventies, right? It's ushering us into the future. This is how I think of it. And I'm not, that's so great. I love this. I love it.

[53:36] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. And then so that's when he is like, dude, get off my case. I'm, I want to wear this fuck. I'm sorry. I want to wear this rag. I want to wear this rag. I want to be, you know, dirty and a little on pimp says my mom says in the show disheveled and you got to get off my case. I get it. You're in college, you know, big whoop. And she's like, well, at some point we have to grow up. We are fighting for something and no one will take us seriously if we don't have buttons on our shirt.

[54:05] Jordan Dobson: Oh, Sheila, you're speaking my, speak of my language. Exactly. Exactly. Like she just got maced in the face. She comes back from a protest and she goes, we levitated the Pentagon. We marched on the Capitol and they sprayed us our throats and our eyes burned. We were blinded. Like that can't be lost in any production. Sheila just got maced in the face. And then her boyfriend rips up the yellow shirt that she got him. No wonder she sings easy to be hard.

[54:34] Jeff Parsons: Exactly. It's Sheila's my favorite role in the show. I just think there's so much heart there. That's great. I would love to play burger that like burgers next time. I really want to play burger. I love that too. And then play Sheila. Yeah. I just find their relationship so fascinating. The two of them. And then Claude just like in the middle when they say Claude is hugging up on a cross between Sheila and burger. Yeah. It's, it's really cool as an actor to get to witness that and try to play off of it and try to be included in their relationship. But that's that all that's a long way to say, I think that's what the yellow shirt scene represents of her saying, okay, but there's a next level to our activism as the counterculture. And he's not mature enough to be there yet.

[55:19] Jordan Dobson: That's really, really cool. Do you think going into the relationship between those three? Do you think that's also part of how Claude is lost? Like 1 million percent? Yeah. In my opinion, I think that line, the genie says of Claude is hung up on a cross between Sheila and burger. Is there a way of saying that Claude is figuring out his sexuality? Yeah. He doesn't know who he wants. Yeah. It's probably bisexual and sees a guidance in both of them. You know, burger leads him through a lot of the show and Sheila leads him through a lot of the show. And he's like, how do I, how do I decide between these two energies? And do I have to decide is, is monogamy a thing is being straight or is being bought, you know, like he's, he's really, really finding the answers within this family that he's been invited in.

[56:16] Jeff Parsons: Can I tell you a stupid story, but I, it relates. I remember being on my own and going to the grocery store and all I wanted to do was buy ranch dressing. And I literally stood in the aisle for a good five minutes being like, why are there so many different ranch dressings? I, I like don't even know which one to pick. That's him. This little question should not be this time consuming. So like, so take that of the youth, which is definitely part of growing up and then put it into these huge questions. I mean, that is, that is hair and that is like, that's youth. Yeah. That is youth. Everything feels like this decision is going to, is going to affect the rest of my life, even if it's ranch dressing. Sure. And then when you do have these huge issues that will affect whether you live or die, you know, that's the stakes of the show. Absolutely.

[57:14] Jordan Dobson: So then let's go to the draft cards. Speaking of living or dying, it's this gathering where, you know, it's an excuse to have a party, but the party is all of the, the guys are going to burn their draft cards, which is a jailable offense. Yeah. I think it's important to note that you, you would go to jail if this was found out. Yeah. Five to 10 years. I mean, that's, that's huge. It's crazy. So all of the guys do it. And then Claude, it's his turn and he can't do it. Right. I don't blame you, dude. Yeah. I mean, that's so nerve wracking to like really wrap our heads around this in this day and age. Like we have to, we have to look at what they went through back then. And if we're trying to relate it to, to what we're experiencing today, we have to look at it through a whole new lens of empathy.

We're so desensitized to everything nowadays. We see it all. We see it on TikTok. We see it on TV. Back then was the first time you were seeing this stuff happen on TV. Yeah. The first. And you feel like, I can't speak for the people that I've talked to about it and the research that I've done. It's, I would feel betrayed by my country because of the propaganda that was, that was put out there about the Vietnam War and then to see it and then to see footage for the first time. So everything that you believe in, the country that you believed in kind of lied to you, but also it is ingrained in you to do your duty to this country, ingrained from your father. I mean, I met a man that I asked, you know, I was just having coffee and we were talking about hair and I asked him, he was like, you know, we would watch the draft on TV.

We would look, we memorized all of our friends' birthdays. He was like, I know all of my buddies' birthdays to this day because I was, sorry, because I was watching scared to see not only mine, but theirs on the TV. That's something I can't relate to. That's devastating. That's so scary. And I just asked, did you have a plan? And he goes, yeah, I was going to run to Canada and my dad didn't want me to. And my mom told me if I run to Canada, I have a little bit of money for you, but don't ever set foot in this country again because your dad will turn you in. Your dad will turn you in if you come back to America after running to Canada to evade the draft. You know, these are all things that Claude had to worry about. His dad probably served, you know?

[59:38] Jeff Parsons: Absolutely. So it's not just I'm burning my draft card with my friends. It's my, my parents will disown me if I, if I do this, if I try to run and flee, like I have no option sometimes, like in his mind, other than go to war. But here, everyone my age burning their draft cards, it's a social event. I mean, I've talked to people that were like, you know, sometimes you had multiple draft cards because if you didn't answer and go down to the induction center, they would send another one and that one would be invalid. And so I know a guy who was like, I used to burn my invalid draft cards to fit in. The ones that I knew didn't mean anything because I still had the, the latest one. So I was like, okay, that, that adds a whole new layer to this moment of like, some of these guys might, might be burning the fake one just to fit in.

But Claude is lost. Claude, Claude's dad gave him his draft card. Your draft notice arrived today and I'm going to make sure you go down to the induction center. Claude doesn't have a fake draft card. So for him, the stakes are even higher. This is it. And that's why he can't do it. And once again, I want to say, I'm not the expert on here, but these are all my opinions. That's why we have these conversations. And I'm so impressed that you did all of this research. It's really beautiful.

[01:01:01] Jordan Dobson: Thank you for like, taking your job seriously, by the way.

[01:01:06] Jeff Parsons: Oh, of course. I mean, in a show like this, you have to, you know, you know, Seussical, it would be a different story, but.

[01:01:10] Jordan Dobson: Well, look, I would happily sit down and read every Dr. Seuss book and I would, I'd be like, let's research. Right. I don't know what to tell you. These are real people, a lot of whom are still alive. And it's, you know, we're taking on a piece where it really happened and people can come see it, that experienced it. You know, there's no way to not take it seriously. So thank you for acknowledging that as well.

[01:01:39] Jordan Dobson: In the second act, oh, by the way, you sing Where Do I Go? Beautiful. Such a good song. And is that always where the nudity happens?

[01:01:47] Jeff Parsons: Yes, from my understanding that like I've seen productions where there is nudity in other places, but it does always happen in Where Do I Go? as well. And most of the time, only in Where Do I Go? It's always funny that growing up, I felt like I always received the message, Hare, it's the musical where people get naked. And which is so hilarious because when you know that it happens during that song of all songs, why are we saying Hare, it's the musical with that incredible sequence where he's singing Where Do I Go? and you see the tribe naked, you know, like it's so powerful. It really is. And has kind of nothing to do with.

[01:02:29] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, the nudity is such a small, small part of the show. The way I see it is that it's just an extension of the being that now they are, they burned their draft cards and now they are stripping anything that needs to be tethered to the world. Yeah. And Claude is having this separate moment in his head of Oh, fuck, oh, fuck, oh, fuck, where do I go? And it's happening simultaneously. And you turn down the sound. And here you have a bunch of people who are free and naked and he's over here by himself clothed. You don't even need the sound to be able to tell that story. So they have a beautiful song accompanying it. It's just it's great storytelling.

[01:03:10] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, it really is. The big thing about Act Two is that Berger gives Berger as like the professor of psychedelic drugs, right, gives Claude something to smoke that is laced with something psychedelic. I mean, that's really all I know. And then it's this really long trip sequence where a lot of crazy stuff goes down, including Abraham Lincoln. I think at one point during the history of the production.

[1:13:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, I feel like I just went to church.

[1:13:15] Jordan Dobson: Yeah.

[1:13:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Jordan, thank you so much for doing this with me. It's been a true honor, and I wish I could come see your show, but I don't think that's going to happen. We're a little far apart.

[1:13:30] Jordan Dobson: I'm a little far away right now.

[1:13:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But thank you so much for having me. As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, just like Sadie, you can always email me at amusicalpodcasts at gmail.com. I need to give a huge shout out and thanks to all of you people, because you write me such beautiful stories and comments. And look, I've been on social media, and I see what some of the other listeners write on other podcast posts. And I'm just so grateful that you all are sweet and beautiful. And I'm just so grateful. That being said, follow us on social media. We're on Instagram. We're on X. We're on TikTok. We've also got Patreon! Where for only $1 a month, you can receive bonus content like our listening party with Jake Workman all about the candor neb flop, which is not a bad word here on a musical theater podcast, the rink.

We also have our designs on our Tee Public store that benefit Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS. But now let's head over to Jordan. Jordan, can you please tell us how to follow you and what's going on right now?

[1:14:39] Jordan Dobson: Oh, yes, you can follow me. I'm only on Instagram. It's at Jordan.

[1:14:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you.

[1:14:44] Jordan Dobson: My Instagram is at Jordan Dobson underscore, where I update all the things that I'm doing. Right now, obviously in Hair at Signature Theater. Come check it out. Get your tickets. After this, going to do Rent in Japan. If anyone's listening from Japan, why don't you see me play Angel in Rent? I'll be there. And then you can also check out Maestro, streaming on Netflix.

[1:15:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm in that about Leonard Bernstein. Hold up. Who are you in Maestro?

[1:15:11] Jordan Dobson: I'm so sorry. I don't know this.

[1:15:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, no worries.

[1:15:14] Jordan Dobson: I play William at the very end of the movie, his last student that he teaches.

[1:15:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: At the, like, whatever.

[1:15:21] Jordan Dobson: Yeah, that's me.

[1:15:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. It's a great film. Congratulations.

[1:15:28] Jordan Dobson: Thank you so much. I had such a blast working on it.

[1:15:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wait, so do you dance with him in the club at the end?

[1:15:33] Jordan Dobson: That's me.

[1:15:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's you?

[1:15:37] Jordan Dobson: And when he's, like, yelling at me, conducting, he's like, no, that's not how you do it. And then he gets up and completely steals the spotlight, which is, like, the whole thesis of that film.

[1:15:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow, Jordan.

[1:15:49] Jordan Dobson: That's me. Check it out on Netflix.

[1:15:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How cool. Congratulations on everything, on your amazing success, and we will be sure to look for more. In the meantime, peace, love, let the sun shine in, everybody.

[1:16:05] Jordan Dobson: Amen.