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[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast, where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff today. Now, look, everybody, we don't always get to cover shows on the pod from our current musical theater history, but we have done it. The Prince of Egypt immediately comes to mind. And so when the opportunity came to cover Kimberly Akimbo, I mean, I got to be honest, I almost didn't want to because, and hear me out, because I had consciously avoided listening to any part of the score with the hope that, like, the first time I'd hear it, I could be in the theater, like, taking it all in for the first time.

By the way, if I'm making confessions, to this day, it's still the reason I haven't heard a single note of Hadestown, which I know is blasphemy, but it's a true story. Anyway, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to cover this special, special show with our special, special guest. He was literally nominated for a Tony yesterday for his work on Kimberly Akimbo. He's a longtime collaborator with Jeanine Tesori, having worked with her on Fun Home and Shrek the Musical and Carolina Change, too, right? Didn't you do all the percussion for Carolina Change?

[1:36] John Clancy: I did play drums and percussion. We helped create the book.

[1:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Amazing. He also orchestrated Mean Girls, The Prom. You guys, how cool that we get to welcome our first orchestrator to A Musical Theatre Podcast, and that his name is Mr. John Clancy. Yay! It's an honor. So happy you're here, and congrats on the Tony love. And can I also say, any trepidation I had about, like, just diving into this musical is completely gone. I'm so grateful, because apparently it's exactly what my soul needed right now. When I really started looking at the show, I was like, oh my gosh, this is like a salve to my heart. So I know you grew up as a drummer, right? Loving rock music. And full disclosure, I feel like you and my older brother would probably have been best friends.

He grew up worshiping, like, Metallica, Pink Floyd, the Scorpions. Yes, ACDC is wearing a shirt, listeners. And I was, like, in my room telling him to turn it down, because I was trying to listen to Beauty and the Beast. And so we definitely, like, we would kind of butt heads a little bit. But I am now, as an adult, grateful that I know all the words to Rock You Like a Hurricane. So did you ever imagine you'd end up in musical theater?

[2:50] John Clancy: No.

[2:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Short answer, no.

[2:53] John Clancy: I don't mean that with anything negative, because, yeah, I just didn't know. I didn't grow up with it. And I didn't know I would be working in it. But I do love working in the field, even though it's not where I come from. Because the collaboration and all the different designers and directors, choreographers, composers, it's just the coolest group of people. And it's a truly collaborative art form. I mean, everybody has to be on point in their department for a show to be successful, really, you know?

[3:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely. I think it's one of the, if not the most collaborative art form out there.

[3:32] John Clancy: Yeah, I mean, I think so, too. So I'm grateful to it, even though I don't, you know, I don't know nearly as much about it as you do.

[3:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, there are plenty of people out there who know even more than I do. But I'd like to think that I'm at least fun about it. So tell me though, when was the moment that you were like, oh, crap, like, this is cool. This might be a thing.

[3:55] John Clancy: Hmm, well, you know, the thing about being a freelance musician in New York is you're like, once you decide to make playing music your living, you have to be willing to go and do anything.

[4:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Fair enough, right.

[4:10] John Clancy: Right. So and in New York, there's a lot going on. So, you know, I was playing in bands, I was playing with singers, songwriters, and all the clubs in the east side and the west side, whatever, downtown. And I also started getting called for to do play in a couple musicals. I played drums in Radiant Baby, which was a show at the Public Theater in 2003 that George Wolfe directed. And that's where I met Billy Porter. He was in the show.

[4:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, and I ended up playing in his band, like his R&B band.

[4:41] John Clancy: Oh, how cool.

[4:41] John Clancy: So on the corner of Broadway and Soul.

[4:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yes, you're on that.

[4:46] John Clancy: That's me playing drums. So that was four nights at Joe's Pub live. And, you know, Janine Tesori saw me playing at Joe's Pub with Billy. And she said, I want to meet this guy. I had a red mohawk back then, red and black mohawk. I mean, you know, I got a call, Janine wants to jam with you. So I went back down to the public with my djembe drum. And she played some upright piano in the basement. And we started jamming on some grooves from Carolina Change, which was about to be mounted at the end of 2003. And the public also directed by George Wolfe, you know. And so I worked with him back to back on those two shows that year.

[5:27] John Clancy: And I was like living in that building, the Public Theater, Joe's Pub building. And then I was still doing my bands and other things, you know, all at the same time. And then Carolina Change went to Broadway. And I, you know, so I find myself in a Broadway chair. I didn't know many people on the scene. I met a million people in the first year of doing it or whatever. And I think it ran for four or five months. It wasn't a long time, but it was cool. And, you know, then I got away from it. And I didn't do theater again for a while because it didn't come around, you know. And I subbed a little bit, but that's like its own whole scene also, you know. I went back to what I do. And then Janine would call me for random things and a film score we did for Knights of Rodanthe, I played on for her.

And then like when the Shrek thing came around, you know, Janine had to kind of like audition to get that job because DreamWorks was sort, because it was DreamWorks first like musical and Disney obviously had been, Disney's Disney. They asked some different composers to submit a demo of like, what, write a song that Shrek would sing. Yeah, what would you do kind of thing. So, you know, she called me like, oh, I got to do these two songs. And our mentor was this guy, Burl Red, who's passed away since, but he was an older man that was Janine's mentor. And he was from the South. So he sounded a little bit like, he was like, well, Janine, why don't you ask Clancy to do the chart? And, you know, he was a really classic guy.

But, but, you know, and she said, oh, can you write this chart? So I was like, sure, I'll write a chart. So I wrote it for to be recorded like the next day. I mean, I had no time. And she got the job, you know, she got the job. So she said, you know, I want this guy on the gig. And of course, I wasn't, you know, I was nobody. So they, she said, you know, I got to team you up with somebody that they're gonna know. So she teamed me up with Danny True, who had orchestrated Your Beloved Beauty and the Beast, in addition to, you know, The Little Mermaid and Pocahontas. And I mean, he did a lot of Disney. And so, you know, here I am paired up with a guy that I don't know, he looked at me and I mean, I looked insane.

So, you know, he must. And you know what, we ended up having the most incredible relationship and musical journey together on that, that I still, I'm still close to him. You know, I mean, he's just I can't say enough about him. He, he never tried to squash me. He only let me go and I was super eager and overly whatever, you know what I mean? And, yeah, and we made that and I think some of those, there's three songs that we wrote on the same page together, like we literally wrote on the same page. And even he said, how are we going to do this? And I said, give me the chart. Let me take it home. I'll write my stuff. And I will leave room for you to do your thing. So I basically went home and wrote like the keyboard parts and guitar parts and the two, the two percussion parts and, and then I left the orchestral instruments to him on those songs.

And then he looked at what I did and he wrote gorgeous stuff over the top. And those three songs kind of came out the most interesting and special in the whole score because who, what, how would you any one person ever?

[8:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[8:40] John Clancy: One mind. How would one mind do that?

[8:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. Because no two people will ever write the same thing.

[8:45] John Clancy: Okay. Now we just did a Shrek episode. So now I need to know what three songs those are.

[8:50] John Clancy: So the opening, the whole opening of the show. And, and then, and then the princess song, I know it's today.

[8:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[9:00] John Clancy: And then the end of act one is Who I'd Be. That song is maybe I think the most special orchestration in the whole show. I think. Because it was like really bringing like my aesthetics of like Peter Gabriel and Joni Mitchell and Sting and all these things into a, into like a pop theater song. And then he wrote this like ridiculous, gorgeous orchestral stuff over the top. I mean, it's really, it's insane. And to this day, I still love that, that recording. I think it's awesome. So.

[9:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[9:34] John Clancy: Fun. Okay. So for those who might not know, because like I said, you're our first orchestrator, can you kind of break it down in terms of what y'all do? Because we just did an episode on Mac and Mabel with an old Jerry Herman show. And we were talking about how unsung the role of orchestrator is.

[9:47] John Clancy: And I think it might be because people just don't know what y'all do.

[9:52] John Clancy: And that's cool. I mean, I, I, there's a part of it that I like. It's in the shadows. You know, I don't, I'm cool with it. You have to be cool with it to do it, because you're not going to get big accolades and credit. And no, most people don't. Honestly, even the Tony Awards, I mean, I'm, I'm super honored, but I know that a lot of people don't really know what I'm doing. You know what I mean? Because it's just a weird job. It's one of those jobs, like even sound design, people are like, what does a sound designer do? You know what I mean?

[10:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Like you just turn up the mics, right? Like that's it.

[10:25] John Clancy: Yeah. The orchestrator, what do you do? Do you, and the, and the truth is, is that you do different things on, depending on what composer you're working for. You have to, you have to be able to know exactly what instrumentation something requires, and you have to know what each instrument does well, and how, what's idiomatic on every instrument. And then you also have to know when it's time to write your own stuff, to compose your own stuff in the song, because a lot of people write a song on a guitar, and then that's the end of it, right? They just write a song on a guitar and they make a demo, and that's the song. So you got chords and a melody, essentially. What's everyone going to play? What's the French horn going to do?

What's the bass line? What's the bass line even? What's even more basic? What's the drum beat? Some people know what they want for a drum beat, and a lot of people have no idea what they want for a drum beat. And it doesn't make one composer like less gifted than the other. It's just that, I think this is why like even great songwriters in pop music or rock music, where I come from, need a good producer to produce their record, because you need somebody else to come in and say, oh my God, you wrote this gorgeous song. I know just what it could sound like. Because sometimes when you're the one who wrote it, you can't see your own stuff. It's like why you need a therapist and not, you can't be your own therapist. You know what I mean? The orchestrator is the composer's therapist.

[11:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, you are kind of, because you go. That's amazing.

[11:50] John Clancy: I've talked composers off of a cliff before when they think, oh my, this song sucks, or I don't know what to do with it. And I say, you know what, chill. I know what to do with it. You know what I mean? That's what's cool about, it's because I'm detached and I'm coming from an objective place somewhere else with my whole list of aesthetics and my whole baggage of music that I grew up with and everything like that. So it's really a cool marriage. I really want to make sure that I don't come across like that any composer is lesser than the other. They're just so different. And Janine Tesori is one of the most technical musicians out there in terms of composers, right?

[12:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I mean, she's really, she's got a lot in her bag of knowledge. I mean, she can throw down hardcore classical stuff and she comes from gospel and she knows plenty about rock and roll and soul music. And of course, she really understands musical theater, which, you know, so you never know what she's going to write. And it's always quality. It doesn't matter if it's like, kitschy and funny, or if it's like, hardcore and dark. It's always like, quality, you know?

[13:03] John Clancy: Okay, I have one more orchestrator, like general question. And I hope, I pray that this is not offensive, but it's just something I've always been curious about. And I have never had anybody to ask. In musical theater, rock musicals, why do rock musicals in general, because heaven knows there are like great examples of it not being...

[13:25] John Clancy: This way, passing strange, coming to mind. Why do rock musicals tend to sound more like musicals than rock music? Look, this is a problem. And I don't know how to say this stuff without, I mean, I don't know if I'll offend anybody. I'm not going to say it.

[13:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fine. Don't worry. I was worried that the question was offensive.

[13:44] John Clancy: Well, no, I mean, look, here's kind of a problem that I have with when I hear just like the soundtrack of some musical I don't even know, let's say. When something sounds like quasi music, I can't do it. It's like either it is or it isn't. Let's just do it. If you want it to be big band, let's make it Sinatra or Glenn Miller or Duke Ellington. Let's just do it the way it should be, you know? And with rock music, it just sounds watered down. It sounds just most of the time. I'll give you a great example of a musical where it's totally legit is the original recording of Hedwig.

[14:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay. Yeah, Hedwig, the original theatre soundtrack.

[14:37] John Clancy: John Cameron Mitchell, not the movie.

[14:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Not the movie because the movie one went through a blender to become a movie and it's very dry and it's very kind of like, it sounds like a movie soundtrack. The songs are still amazing and all that. But if you listen to the original theatre soundtrack, they got a real rock producer, Chris Lorivalgi, to produce it. He's a super badass and he's the real thing. And it sounds like a Led Zeppelin album or Bowie or something. I mean, it's amazing sounding recording. And then Stephen Trask is totally legit. I mean, the dude is an amazing songwriter. I think those songs are all amazing. And the way they just went about doing the whole thing. I mean, they started doing that show downtown at a club called Don Hills that I used to play at.

I mean, it's just a rock club downtown that has nothing to do with theatre. There's nothing to do with theatre. They just went into a rock club and they started doing that material. And he was dressed and everything like that. John Cameron Mitchell was dressed up and stuff, but so was Bowie. I mean, that guy.

[15:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, like this is the gig.

[15:43] John Clancy: It was this, honestly. I mean, so they were just like, they were exploring the story of it through doing gigs and just seeing what flew, it sounds like, right? And then it developed into like a musical from a one person show, essentially with a band. But man, that is real deal rock music.

[16:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's cool. So then just a follow up question with that, then, is it preserved that way because the producer of the album was a rock person as opposed to a theatre album person?

[16:17] John Clancy: Yeah, and the composer.

[16:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the composer.

[16:19] John Clancy: Yeah, the composers, both of them. I mean, they're legit. And Duncan Sheik is legit. I mean, he comes from bands. He doesn't come from this. So he comes in and everything's different. From the minute that you start, it's different. And it's real band stuff. And this isn't to look down on other people's efforts in trying to do this, but it's just, there's a reason ACDC is ACDC. It's not because they're the only people in the world who can play eighth notes. It's because the way they do it is so legit, you know? And a lot of people just didn't grow up doing it. I feel like you have to pretty much have grown up living and breathing this. I lived and breathed this music from day one. And then when I started playing in bands, I was 12.

And we were playing all this stuff and writing our own stuff at the same time. And it was terrible. But we were learning. You know what I mean? We were learning without even knowing it. We were learning. So, you know, Back in Black from ACDC, that song is pure genius. It's just as genius as Sweeney Todd. It's just a different medium. It's a different art form altogether.

[17:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so, so cool.

[17:37] John Clancy: Yeah. I mean, look, and there's a whole other, the whole other reason is the vocal style is so different.

[17:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure, sure.

[17:44] John Clancy: And it's really hard when you're trying to tell a story in a theater piece and the words matter so much because you're, so they're over enunciating. And in rock music, I mean, do you know the first line of Honky Tonk Woman? It's pretty hard to understand Mick Jagger on any line.

[18:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: On any level.

[18:03] John Clancy: How much vibe does he have? He's all vibe. So that's the problem. There's a little, there's a, if you want to, if you want the vibe of rock and roll, you're going to have to let go of the lyrics.

[18:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You'll have to sacrifice the storytelling at least to some point.

[18:18] John Clancy: You got to let go of it if you want that. You know what I mean? You just got to let it all go. So that's, that's the other problem that, that, that it has.

[18:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fair. That's a, that's a great point too.

[18:28] John Clancy: And the passing strange thing. I did not see the show, but I saw a clip of it on some video and that dude was totally legit. I mean, he, but that's, again, he's not coming from, he's not a music theater person. So, I mean, it's just not, it wasn't, he was doing what he does.

[18:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Joe's Pub, by the way, he was playing shows at Joe's Pub and Mr. Public Theater came in and was like, Hey, do you want to do a musical? He's like, excuse me, what?

[18:50] John Clancy: Exactly. But it was basically him up there with his guitar, right. And telling stories and you know, like Springsteen did, did his theater piece like two years, a few years ago. I mean, all he did was go up and be himself, right. You know? So of course it was legit because he's him.

[19:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[19:07] John Clancy: That's so cool. Okay. So now Kimberly Akimbo, which has a lot of rock and roll elements that you've put in there for sure. Now the musical is based on Kimberly Akimbo, the play written by David Lindsay-Aberre back in 2000. I didn't realize the play was that old. And both David Lindsay-Aberre and Jeanine Tesori had worked on Shrek. Now, do you know when everyone started working on Kimberly Akimbo? And by the way, is there an abbreviation for this musical or do you always call it Kimberly Akimbo? Do you call it Kim K-A-

[19:39] John Clancy: I don't know what they do, but I say Akimbo a lot because that's...

[19:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Akimbo, that's great.

[19:44] John Clancy: Akimbo is just a made up word, you know? I mean, it is. It's part of the acronym, right?

[19:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[19:51] John Clancy: Or the anagram, excuse me. Anagrams in the show. But they did mess with naming the show something else.

[19:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Did they?

[19:58] John Clancy: Yeah, they messed with it and then they came back. I wasn't a part of this, but they did mess with it and then they came back around to just going back to what it was. Because I think it just felt like, you know what? This really is what it is. So let's just call it that.

[20:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 100%.

[20:13] John Clancy: People get into like, oh, how are we going to market something? How are we going to sell this show?

[20:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I mean, even this show, it's still got that problem in a way. Like, what does it look like on the poster? You can't tell how deep it's going to be.

[20:26] John Clancy: Right.

[20:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know what I mean?

[20:28] John Clancy: How do you even tell somebody? It's hilarious. I saw this like Broadway.com clip or something that went through the entire cast and they were all supposed to say three words that describe the show. And inevitably, everyone was like, hysterical, heartfelt. And I'm like, right there. How do you even communicate that to a general theater going audience that you're going to laugh and cry?

[20:51] John Clancy: In the same song. Which is a tribute to David.

[20:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: To the writers.

[20:58] John Clancy: Yeah, because, I mean, dude, he's, David Lindsay Bear, he is deep. I mean, he has a twisted comical mind and he's really, really in left field with a lot of it. And I mean this in the best way.

[21:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Of course.

[21:14] John Clancy: Then he writes this super deep, sentimental stuff that is not cheesy and flies, you know, I mean.

[21:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, the character development in this musical is something that I haven't seen in a couple years and that makes me very, very happy. So anyway, do you know, did they start working on it after Shrek?

[21:32] John Clancy: Oh, yeah, yeah. They started working after Shrek, yeah. Years later, I would say. The first workshop, I think she didn't even tell me about. She kind of keeps me in the dark a lot until the end.

[21:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Until the end and then you're like, boom, you're here.

[21:49] John Clancy: Well, the orchestrator, like, that's kind of the point is we come in and we're like a fresh ear and then we like do our thing. You don't orchestrate usually for a workshop. I mean, sometimes you toss in a few musicians, maybe sometimes, but you don't like orchestrate because it's expensive and it's a whole production. Anyway, I think I went to the second workshop and even that was some years ago. This is all pre-pandemic. I don't know what year that was, maybe 17 or 18. They were doing workshops already. So I don't know when they started writing it per se, but it wasn't back in Shrek. We did in 08, you know, 09.

[22:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Post Fun Home.

[22:28] John Clancy: Yeah, Post Fun Home. And then, you know, somewhere in there, she started going into this with him. And again, I think I missed the first workshop. When I saw the second workshop, I was like, oh, wow, it's cool. The music was cool. And even then, I just know her. She's really never done. I mean, she really rewrites a lot and she throws stuff out.

[22:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yeah. The first workshop of Shrek, there's only one song from the entire show that made it into the show. Only one.

[22:55] John Clancy: Oh, dang.

[22:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Only one song. I know it's Today was the only song that made it.

[22:59] John Clancy: Really?

[23:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm pretty sure that's true. Yeah.

[23:01] John Clancy: Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

[23:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I played drums at the first workshop. I mean, she did like a lot of workshops at that show beforehand. This one, I think they did two workshops or something like that. And then they got the production at the Atlantic and it was at the right coming out of the pandemic. So I started writing the score in the summer before that when we're still closed down. And I just told her, I need songs up front so I can get my juices back. I want to get thrown into some short rehearsal schedule and spit it all out. So I took my time. And in the beginning, I'm sort of guessing at what something's going to sound like. I start writing the chart. And then after like three to five charts, I start seeing like, oh, this is what it wants to be.

I see what this thing is. Yeah, what this wants to be. And with her, you know, you're uncovering the layers of these songs and they're so deep. And then the next song, you're peeling back layers like, wow, this is a whole other thing and all that. And I got really excited about it after those first three to five songs I did.

[24:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So the show opens off Broadway in 2021. It's like, I mean, it cleans up like the Drama Desk Awards and all the things for Off-Broadway. But then when do you move to Broadway? 2022?

[24:23] John Clancy: Yeah, yep. In the fall. We went last fall.

[24:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. And it's playing at the Booth Theatre in New York to this day. And just got nominated for many Tony Awards. And we're hoping that it continues to run because I still got to get there to see it.

[24:43] John Clancy: Yeah, you don't want to miss it. I mean, it's really good. And the changes between Off-Broadway and Broadway were really smart.

[24:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really? Cool.

[24:51] John Clancy: Yeah. Because they're just, they don't stop chiseling away at the, you know, making every moment count. And also David writes with this comedic timing, almost like a stand up comedian does the timing thing. And so he'd sit in the audience. I mean, I'm guessing this is what he does. But I would notice his changes because he's going with what the reaction is in the room. And he just times things in such a way. It really reminds me of stand up in that way, where you're like, oh, if I wait, and then I say this, because they were already kind of giggling, now they're going to laugh. You know what I mean? I don't know. I'm guessing. This is so far out of my wheelhouse. I'm always amazed by it that people can do this because I have no idea. I'm just a musician.

[25:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, but it is like, it is rhythm. You know, I was recently talking to somebody who said that Mel Brooks started out as a drummer, right? So he like, inherently understands weight, you know, or whatever the rhythm might be for his particular sense of comedy. So totally, it makes it makes absolute sense. Well, I want to dive right into the show and talk through the story with you because there's just so much good stuff in here. Like you said that the writing is just kind of impeccable. And these characters are so interesting. The show starts now, I gotta say, I'll begin this. Right now, if I turn on a show or a film, and like anyone's wearing masks, or they're talking about the pandemic, I cannot turn it off fast enough.

Like that's just where I am. I can't handle like any sort of commentary on what was like, just let's just do it like succession and pretend it never happened. But Kimberly Akimbo feels to me like a show like the first musical that I've come across. It feels like it's about the pandemic, but it's not about the pandemic. And I don't know if that makes sense to you at all. But seeing these people deal with like the unexpected detour.

[26:50] John Clancy: There's the disease brings on into life and then ultimately deciding it's important just to live like all of that has felt so therapeutic for me. That being said, the show does not take place during the pandemic. It takes place in the late 90s. Are you a 90s teenager? I was a 90s teenager. You're an 80s teenager. I'm almost 50. Yeah. Oh, I get it. See all my white hair. That's from having my son. You see all my white hair? Nope, because I dye it. But you have this white beard. I'm starting to look like Peter Gabriel or something. It just happens when the minute I had my son. Anyway, that's, um, you know, it does take place in the 90s. But and people ask me this question a lot about the sound of the show in the 90s. And I have to say the 90s is my least favorite decade of music.

[27:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting.

[27:43] John Clancy: Okay. Favorite. And I'm not saying I hate everything in all of the 90s. But the stuff I like in the 90s isn't the popular stuff in the 90s. You know, and also, by the time you get to the 90s, a lot, at least with rock music, and especially like R&B and stuff, I mean, these things that already been done in the 70s and everything like that. And people have all these influences from before. So like, what does it even mean to sound like the 90s? What does it mean? Unless you're doing songs that are like, really stylized, like Offspring or something like that, or Incubus or one of those terrible bands. I mean, you know, like, what is what is the sound of the 90s? I don't know, you know, so I really, I really honestly wasn't trying to go for a particular sound of the 90s. I was more going for what is really the Jersey band sound.

[28:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, and that's it. That's it.

[28:35] John Clancy: But that to me is Springsteen, you know, a little bit of like Bon Jovi a little bit, you know, and like, but really like Springsteen, and really kind of the, not the early 70s, the 70s Springsteen, but kind of the early 80s Springsteen.

[28:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely. Which, to be fair, growing up in the 90s was still all over the radio.

[28:58] John Clancy: His biggest music, you know, as far as hits, is really in the 80s and the late 70s. But like, so I thought it was more important to nail that. And also there's something timeless about him. And I wanted to make this as timeless as I could. I didn't want it to sound like, oh, that's, that's 1983 Eurythmics or something, which I love. But I mean, you know, that's, that's gonna get super pinned as like a thing. I still wanted to show so we could turn on the soundtrack in three more years and go like, oh, it's just really just good music. It's just good.

[29:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[29:32] John Clancy: You know, Brian Adams, Summer of '69 is in there.

[29:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Ooh, that's great. That's a great song.

[29:39] John Clancy: But he's doing Springsteen in that song.

[29:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting.

[29:44] John Clancy: I'm learning so much from you because I'm such a musical theatre nerd. This is great. Well, he's a Canadian, man. I mean, he's a great rocker, dude. But he was definitely like pulling from Springsteen when he made that. And that's an 80s album. Also, I think that came out in '84 or '85 or something like that. But, you know, that's what I was going for. And also I love the band The Killers. Do you know that band The Killers?

[30:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely.

[30:11] John Clancy: That whole first album, Hot Fuss, is from like 2003 or 2004. The whole album is perfect. But really any of their music, even if you don't like the song as much, because I don't love every song they wrote, but if you just listen to it, the sound of it and the production of it and the part writing, yeah, is killer. And I just think it's cool how they bridged a bunch of different decades. You know, you hear the 80s, you hear some 90s, I guess. And then you hear like the 2000s, which does that even have a sound? I don't know.

[30:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, if you're going to talk about the worst decade in my opinion.

[30:47] John Clancy: But I mean, what? But I don't even know how to call it. Because it doesn't even have like...

[30:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't know what the sounds are because by then everything had been done. I mean, like electronic music has already been explored and re-explored like a million times. It's almost like, let's get back to an acoustic guitar. I mean, that would be like new.

[31:04] John Clancy: Everyone's like, wow, Colby Caillat. We've never experienced anything like...

[31:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, or like even Ed Sheeran's doing it. He's like going back to just one instrument, you know, after he made his big hit, which is all programmed, you know, The Shape of You or whatever that song is. That's very programmed sounding. But then his other song is like an old Sam Cooke 60s kind of... I don't know the name of that tune, but you know what I'm saying? The ballad that's in 12-8 or 6-8 or whatever. So, you know, I don't know, man, that's where I was going for the rock music of Kimberly. I was just trying to keep it real and also make it sound special. And I really wasn't going for something super 90s.

[31:46] John Clancy: Here's the other thing is that we're talking about some teenagers in New Jersey. I don't know New Jersey well. So, like, where is this? I don't want to say like white trash, but kind of like blue collar is a little...

[31:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Suburbs.

[31:58] John Clancy: Yeah. So, like, even Springsteen, he's from Freehold, New Jersey, and he comes from super blue collar, no money. His story is incredible. You know, that's central Jersey, you know, Freehold, New Brunswick. I don't know. I don't even actually know where they are in this one. I know they talk about Lodi and stuff, but that's also kind of upper central Jersey, I think.

[32:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, the thing that I found said that they're in Bergen County.

[32:28] John Clancy: Oh, okay. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I was born in Jersey, but I didn't really grow up there, but it's just a suburb. It's just where things are, you know, there's malls and skate rinks and, you know, regular. So, just in terms of music, like these are kids who probably are wearing their hand-me-downs. There are kids who are hanging out at the ice skating rink, and, you know, and they're not getting invited to all the popular parties. So, I love that it's kind of an amalgamation of all of these genres of music, you know.

[33:05] John Clancy: It also, this opening number, which takes place at the ice skating rink, makes me kind of emotional because I immediately go, oh, remember when teenagers would hang out, like, in person. Like, this feels like the last generation before cell phones come and, like, completely change the social structure of how teenagers hang out with each other. And so, it feels very special to me. There is nostalgia there, but it also just feels like I'm very protective of it because I'm like, oh, these special, special kids who maybe don't even realize. These kids all have crushes on each other. But, of course, it's hilarious, but they're all unrequited. Like, they all have a crush on someone who has a crush on someone else. Like, this is kind of fun.

[33:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And who has different sexual preferences.

[33:59] John Clancy: Yes, right. Of course. The girl's attracted. They're way off base. They're all way off base. And they have no, they can't even read each other well because it doesn't even occur to them.

[34:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Of course, no. The hormones are going wild. The gaydar's totally off. Everybody's just very confused.

[34:13] John Clancy: Right. Right. But it's so sweet. And they're trying to have a great time within this teenage life. The one person who nobody really has a crush on is this girl named Kimberly Lavaco, who is the main character of the piece. And Kimberly in the musical has a fictional disease. It's a disease that's kind of similar to progeria, I think is how it's called. And if you look at pictures of what progeria actually looks like, to be very like kind of grotesque and stereotypical, like children who have progeria kind of look like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Like, it's a very almost cartoonish form of the elderly. And so, this form, this fictional form of that disease that Kimberly has, has made it so that she ages four times the rate of everybody else. So, even though she's just turning 16, she looks like she's about 70.

[35:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Gray hair, postmenopausal, that sort of thing.

[35:27] John Clancy: Now, she has been told all of her life that the life expectancy of this disease is 16 years old, which to me, as an audience member, means I'm thinking she's going to die at any moment during this show, which has a lot of tension, for sure. But as we meet her, she goes home. And this disease has not only kind of upended her life, but definitely her family's as well. And boy, oh, boy, are these people interesting in the ways that they've reacted to her diagnosis, right? You got the mom who's named Patty, who is kind of in direct competition with her daughter now, just mother of the year.

[36:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Insane, yeah.

[36:10] John Clancy: She always has casts and braces, because she needs as much attention as her dying daughter. Patty is also pregnant now with her second child, and is always making video diaries for that child, because she's convinced she's going to die. And she doesn't want the child to think she's a bad person. And in my experience in life, anyone who's going out of their way to tell you that they're a good person, probably isn't a good person. Just in general, in my opinion.

[36:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well said, yeah.

[36:46] John Clancy: She does get to sing the best song in the show.

[36:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The Father Time song?

[36:53] John Clancy: What are you going to do with that song? Just when you think that you hate her completely, then she sings that song, right?

[36:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that song transcends musicals.

[37:01] John Clancy: It's this lullaby that she ends up singing for her unborn baby, that's basically saying, I mean, the psychology of it is so deep and so freakishly beautiful. It's like a prayer to Father Time to slow time down, because the baby doesn't want to sleep, almost in like a Mary Poppins reverse psychology sort of way. Oh, it's just so great. What a great song that builds and builds and builds. You've also got her dad, who has turned to drinking. He's drinking way too much to kind of deal with all of his stresses. And the family has moved from...

[37:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What was the place you just...

[37:41] John Clancy: Lodi.

[37:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Lodi.

[37:43] John Clancy: I would have said Lodi, which is apparently not correct.

[37:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's okay. I come from Utah, where a town that's spelled Hurricane is called Hurricane.

[37:55] John Clancy: Which is absolutely bonkers.

[37:58] John Clancy: So they have moved from Lodi, but there's like a secret. There's like a family secret around why they moved. Now, this play, written in 2000, comes right at this really interesting time in theater where this subgenre of plays reveals itself, which is white families are dysfunctional. That's kind of the subgenre of theater. Probably the apex of it is August: Osage County. But you've also got, obviously, Kimberly Akimbo. You've got Other Desert Cities. The Real Joneses, I think, was another one. Anyway, all of these plays that are about white families who have these secrets, and eventually they come out at the end. And that kind of is what Kimberly Akimbo the musical is, except that it's just so freaking funny and kind of goofy at the same time.

[38:49] John Clancy: So you've got all of these weird characters. You've got this secret going on, but then all of these laughs are coming up as well. Kim in school, in biology class, they have been assigned to do a class presentation on a specific disease. And there's this kind of awkward kid named Seth who wants to partner with her and do the presentation about her disease.

[39:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, how would you describe Seth?

[39:19] John Clancy: First of all, that kid is brilliant. Justin, who plays Seth, he's so brilliant. If you just watch him in the show, he's funny all the time, even when he has no lines. Just the way he stands and looks around, the guy is super deep. He's also the sweetest person and that comes through in his character. Just the true sweet with no agenda. He loves her as a friend from day one. He has no ulterior motives. He embodies those things. And he plays it beautifully. I don't know him that well personally, but that's how he comes across personally, honestly. He really is like that. He's a sweet guy.

[40:06] John Clancy: And when he asks her to do the project on her disease, he's almost asking her...

[40:16] John Clancy: To honor her and like, hey, wouldn't this be interesting that we could have people understand you? Yeah. Instead of just kind of pretending. Clearly she's misunderstood that she looks so old and whatever. And he doesn't realize until they start doing it, that it was a bad idea because it really creeps everybody out because it's so intense. It's very intense. And she realizes while they're giving the presentation and she, that's one of the lyrics, this was a terrible idea. Look how they're looking at me, she says, you know, and the music changes drastically. That song is crazy, by the way, it's called "Our Disease." And it's basically like, I mean, it's going through everywhere, like operatic to like, like anthem rock, Queen figures.

I mean, I always go to Queen because they did the best version of theatrical, orchestral. Yeah, exactly. They were making theater. They were, I mean, even so theatrical. So like I, and except they were like a legitimate rock band, right? So I channel them all the time, whenever the music gets like that. And I don't have a whole orchestra there. So I try to channel Queen and then it gets super dark and dissonant after she realizes it was a bad idea. And it goes into like, almost contemporary classical, like music that doesn't have a genre to it, you know. And we change all the color changes and the life gets sucked out of the, all of the noise we were making goes away. It goes down to two instruments, maybe or something. And then she says the most deep stuff and then it gets very, it turns into a sarcastic, because she's losing it.

[42:01] John Clancy: Yeah, no, she's kind of having an emotional breakdown in front of her entire class. Liza Minnelli with Sinatra, big band swing. Yeah. And she goes into that just to be like, hey, everybody, look at how crazy I am now because she's, that's the only way she can figure to deal with it. So that's where it goes musically. So inside that same number, that same song, you hit all of these weird places musically, you know. It also has maybe the most gorgeous and simple lyric that's ever been written about adolescence, which is she says, and it's so beautiful that it comes from her. She tells her class, getting old is my disease and getting old is your cure. Yeah, that is the end. That's- Isn't that it?

Like that- That is insane. Yeah, you're right. I can't believe like somebody even wrote that so beautifully and succinctly. But like, here she is, like staring death in the face. And she sees, you know, all of her young friends who have these problems that just don't matter. Right?

[43:08] John Clancy: Yeah. Yeah. And just the profound thing about what growing up actually means to certain people at certain stages. Anyway, it's just incredible. Yeah. Nice. Kim, kind of in the process of figuring out all of that, has also started writing letters to the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Because, you know, if you're a kid who's going to die, like, might as well give it a try, right? Yeah. So she writes the Make-A-Wish Foundation early on in the show and says that she wants, you know, maybe a tree house, maybe a horse. And then she's like, no, gotta dream big, gotta dream big. And she starts thinking about all of the adventures that she could go on. And then there's this like, once again, talking about how all of these songs go through these incredible journeys.

There's this moment where she realizes like how she would love a simple family dinner. Like this show is just filled with like, every hilarious thing is backed up with like a punch to the stomach where you're just like, oh, my gosh. It's gut-wrenching right there. And again, we drop down to...

[44:18] John Clancy: To barely anything, right? Three instruments. Yeah, literally cello, bass, clarinet and clarinet. No one else playing. Wow. That's so beautiful. And like, it takes, you know, I love those moments because it takes so much guts to do something like that. We're literally just going to let these three musicians hang out. There's no keyboard to back them up. There's not a guitar, nothing. Just the counterpoint between those three instruments. They have to play perfectly in tune. And they have to sound beautiful on their own with no support from someone else covering their play. And I just love that. And Janine loves that. And then you have somebody like Victoria Clark, who's so in control of her like freaking craft.

So good. That part of that piece is, I'm with you, man. After all that story, oh, I want this. Oh, I want that. I want to go to China. And we have all these crazy notes flying around the theater and everything. And then a simple home-cooked meal, solo cello. And then, you know, I love it too, man. Like when you're creating this stuff, you got to like be getting chills, right? You're like, okay, we found something. I'm getting the chills. This is good, right?

[45:29] John Clancy: Totally. But that spot is a spot where I didn't have to write any notes on my own. I literally could take what Janine wrote on the page and I just put the right instruments to it. And I kept it that bare and didn't add anything to it. That moment we're talking about right there. The previous stuff, I had to do all kinds of things because I needed to, you know, but then when we got there, I was like, look, with these voicings she wrote, they laid perfectly with the instrumentation that I wanted to use. So I don't even think I really had to octave displace anything. I really just was able to use her notes as they were for at least a little stretch there, which is, I love that because that's, then it's like exactly what she wrote, exactly what she wrote.

[46:12] John Clancy: Love, love, love. The Make-A-Wish Foundation chooses to build the treehouse, by the way. Now, kind of the added ingredient to all of this dysfunction that makes it even crazier is the reemergence of one Ant Deb. Now, this character played incredibly by Bonnie Milligan. I mean, it's everything that I love in theater, for sure. Just someone who's all chaos. Yeah. No filter.

[46:47] John Clancy: No filter. By the way, these poor Kimberly, like the things that adults say to her in this show are just so upsetting. But she comes into town and she's a total con. She washes checks, like that's her thing. And so she decides to get Kimberly and then all of her, you know, friends from the ice skating rink to go in on this big heist in order to make their, to quote the song, Shitty Life's Better. They're all trying to work together. Two of her songs are just the actual greatest, like "Better" and "How to Wash a Check." So great. So this is my orchestrator question for this. When you have a voice like Bonnie Milligan that can basically be heard in Nebraska, right? Can you kind of bump up the orchestration as much as you want? Because like, it's not going to drown her out.

[47:40] John Clancy: Totally. I still like study the way she does it. And I purposely don't step on, you know, moments where I know she's not belting, you know, cranking out. But yeah, I mean, by the time it's cooking, we're blasting out like Aretha Franklin. It was the only song in the show where I really wished I had like a full horn section with a trumpet and a trombone, which I didn't have. I just had two reeds. So I did it with only saxophones, but I still had fun with it. Yeah, it works. I mean, you know, it just was one of those songs like, oh, this would be awesome if I had a full R&B horn section, but whatever. You know, we made it work and the rest of the band was perfect for it. I mean, to do it and I got to pull like from a lot of the old school stuff that I love like Bill Withers and Aretha and Chaka Khan and her old band Rufus.

And then also I tried to use some modern elements of like Alicia Keys like, you know, so it wouldn't just sound like a throwback song entirely, but would have a little bit of, you know, the way that she drops her grooves in and things are a little more angular in modern R&B as opposed to like the old school R&B. Just Motown or whatever. Yeah. So I tried to just blend those things, but we don't run any tracks in this show or anything. You know, there's no fake anything. Janine doesn't like that stuff and she doesn't really like click tracks and stuff. So we never run track on Janine's stuff. So I have to do everything with just who's there. Yeah, everything you're hearing, somebody's playing it.

There's no pre-recorded anything or any kind of supplemental track. And other shows I've done, I use lots of track. It depends on the style of the show and the composer and what the expectations are of the show. But for Janine's shows, she just really loves organic music that's played by people. So that's where we stick to that. And if I'm going to try to sound produced, I got to find a way to do it with what's there, you know, like live keyboard sound or however everybody plays, fancy guitar effects, whatever. So that's where I was thinking for that. But of course, the song was a joy to orchestrate because it was so well written and we had a powerhouse singer. So like, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Show up to work, right? Yeah, it was super fun to write, you know, so.

[50:01] John Clancy: The other tunes are R&B, rock and roll, whatever you want to call it. But like, "How to Wash a Check," that's a scene. It's a scene. Okay. Weird song, yeah. What kind of music is that? So this is one of my favorite like comedy things in the whole show is that she's teaching these like misfit kids, right? How to forge checks. And they're terrible at it. And the way that she like turns it around and gets them to really try is by threatening to go and use the rival show choir at their rival high school. And they're like, oh, oh, absolutely not. You are not going to use them. So then they step up their con game, right? But I can't think of a composing team that goes for comedy in songs more than Jeanine Tesori and David Lindsay-Abaire.

Like the comedy is built into the writing of the songs, which is not easy to do. Usually, like you sing and then you have like a couple of funny line quips that are said, but they're not sung. This comedy is actually in the song structure. How do you, do you ever wonder like, I don't want to mess up the comedy?

[51:14] John Clancy: Well, yeah. So I mean, you got to stay away from, you know, stepping on any lines like we talked about before. I mean, that's my job always. But on anything where there's a lot of lines or there's jokes, I mean, you got to learn how to stay out of the way of the jokes and all that stuff. But if you listen to the track itself, it's actually pretty badass music. It's sort of like, it's like a shuffle, like a front porch kind of dirgey shuffle, swingy, bluesy. I used a Dobro resonator guitar. That's very like, you know, bluesy and old school. And I used an octave divider on the bass for the entire song. So it would sound almost electronic. Basically, I was trying to make like a hybrid sounding piece of music that was pulling from different things, but none of them were all from one thing.

And a little bit of the like, Star Wars space cantina bar band. Because it's quirky. So you'll hear like clarinets come in and stuff. But that's what I'm saying. Like, that's where you have to somehow communicate to the audience. You need to listen to this because it's funny, right? I'm just trying to make it quirky and all like off a little bit, but still like hip, you know, like musically hip.

[52:32] John Clancy: Like for me, looking at the psychology of that is it tells the audience, don't get too comfortable. You need to be leaning in on this. You can't just like sit back and let it wash over. You got to lean in because you might, you probably don't really know what's going to happen here.

[53:06] John Clancy: Yeah, no, totally. So I mean, I, you know, and again, like I wasn't trying to be quote funny in what we were doing, but just quirky and kind of weird and unexpected and all those things so that it would just kind of go with what they were doing. I mean, they did all the work in making it funny. You know what I mean?

[54:11] John Clancy: Kim learns that the reason they had to leave their hometown is because her mom, to make sure that the new baby wouldn't have the same disease as Kimberly, she went and slept with the neighbor. The husband found out from the wife, which I mean that conversation you can imagine what that was like. So he gets Aunt Deb to go and beat him up and he says make sure and wear a mask. She puts on this like terrifying pig mask, crawls through his bedroom window, gives him a heart attack because he's scared so much. And so the neighbor dies. And so then they're like, we got to leave town. Like that's the family secret. And it's all based on this deep, deep shame of not wanting to have to deal with another child like Kimberly. Like, oh my gosh. So I don't know. Maybe you can help me out. But is it the stress of it all that just causes Kimberly to collapse there at the end of that scene?

[54:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're asking me questions outside my wheelhouse.

[54:32] John Clancy: It's okay. It's okay. I don't know. I find all that part of the show to be complex because each of them have such massive issues and they're sort of all culminating together in this tornado at the table.

[54:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's such a great way to say it.

[54:40] John Clancy: And even though they're telling the story about the Aunt Deb killing the neighbor, you know, it's still really all of their crap is coming to the table.

[54:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely.

[54:48] John Clancy: And then she has her first physical, in her deterioration physically, the first thing happens to her and she ends up in the hospital. And oh my gosh, what a beautiful thing musically, how you go from the orchestra, you go from the music playing to then the beep of the hospital monitor. How cool is that?

[55:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it is cool. And that song is very strange because it came out totally different than the rest of the score. Also, it's like all this electronic stuff is in that song. We're playing it all. There's no pre-recorded stuff. But I mean, no other song in the show sounds anything like that song.

[55:19] John Clancy: Interesting.

[55:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. It's just like a weird electronic R&B song, but with these like white trash people sitting around a dinner table. It's very like it doesn't, I don't even know if it makes sense, but for some reason it's working. I don't know. I don't even know why.

[55:34] John Clancy: It's so cool. I didn't even I didn't clock that. I was just in the story. I didn't even think about it.

[55:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Listen to the record like it's all the sounds are very electronic and nothing else sounds like that. And why? Why is it electronic? I really don't know myself. It's like it's I don't know. It's just the piece just, you know, she told me that Janine was like all into that tune Waterfalls by TLC.

[55:55] John Clancy: Yes, of course.

[55:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. So I listened to that and I was like, oh, yeah, I could feel that groove. And there's like wah guitar in there, like sexy wah guitar. And so I use that in the inevitable turn. It makes it it's crazy. And I use a lot of synth bass like Stevie Wonder's sort of synth bass. And but it's like the mom singing about how no matter how hard they try to be nice, it's going to we all know this is going south. You know what I mean?

[56:18] John Clancy: Yes, absolutely.

[56:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Why that is accompanied by like electronic music, I really don't know. But something about it works in the space.

[56:24] John Clancy: And you're not going to argue if it works, right?

[56:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, it was working. And then at the end, the band's like cranking full chaos and they're yelling over it. And that's what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be chaos. And then, yeah, it gets clipped and she's in the hospital and the beep, which is also electronic kind of makes sense coming out of that song.

[56:41] John Clancy: And then the next song is my other favorite song in the show is that song Now. And nobody really talks about that song. And that's another song that's totally different than everything else in the show and has nothing to do with what you've heard before.

[56:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's the one that Seth sings to her?

[56:58] John Clancy: He starts and then she comes in. It's really a duet and goes into a whole other palette of world music like Joni Mitchell meets Peter Gabriel or Tori Amos or something like that. And it doesn't have anything to do with the other music in the show. It really doesn't. And I love it. I love the composition of it.

[57:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. Before we get too far away from what you were talking about, do you want to hear a funny story about TLC's Waterfalls?

[57:23] John Clancy: Sure.

[57:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, my fiancée grew up thinking that that song was about a guy named Jason Waterfalls. And that the song was said, Don't go Jason Waterfalls.

[57:31] John Clancy: Hey, it's hard to understand what people are saying.

[57:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then you know, what's cool about music is you take your own meaning for songs. I mean, people do it all the time where, oh, did you mean this? And their own songwriters going, I didn't even mean that. But that's what you...

[57:45] John Clancy: But sure.

[57:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: If it's for you, it becomes yours now. It's yours. That's a good one, dude. I like that.

[57:51] John Clancy: Yeah, that was pretty funny. So many great things here at the end for Kimberly. Before I Go, which is this gorgeous song that she sings to her family, that she's like, before I die, can you please let go of the daughter that you wish you'd have? Because that'll make my transition much easier.

[58:06] John Clancy: Yeah.

[58:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She also writes a letter to, a new letter to Make-A-Wish, thanking them for the treehouse, but that she doesn't need it because she is going to do what she actually wants to do and what she actually talked about in the first song, which is to live an adventure. So the teenagers all carry out the heist, the great heist that Aunt Deb wanted them to do. They get the money. And at the very end, it's this song called Great Adventure. Now, I've been living on Maui in Hawaii for almost a year and a half now. And I love musical theater. And so the moment that I hear the ukulele in this album, I immediately start crying.

[58:43] John Clancy: That's very sweet.

[58:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But it's true, because it means so much to me now. It means more to me on a different level than it had before. But why did y'all go with uke on that?

[58:54] John Clancy: Well, that's all, Janine. I mean, I love the instrument too, and we've used it before. I used it in Shrek. I used it in Mean Girls. I mean, what it does is so honest. It's so honest. It's just so simple. When you want to make something simple, like what's more simple than that? And she said, I want to use it on, I mean, she knew she wanted it on Great Adventure. And then when it came to the top of the show, that...

[59:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It kind of bookends it, right?

[59:21] John Clancy: It does bookend it, but it wasn't originally written that way. She decided later, we were working on the, you know, the beginning of shows is always the hardest thing. It's always changing. They're trying to get it right. It's a very hard thing to get it right. So of all the iterations of how the show started and what happens in the opening number, she said to me, how can we start with ukulele? And I said, oh, well, we can play the chord changes to Skater Planet on it. It'll work. So we did, you know, so she said, well, let me hear it. What is it going to sound like? So I got the guitar player and said, let's do this. And we did it with the groove. So it's so, you know, the Great Adventure, it's more of the typical groove that he does with the six chords in it and stuff like that.

But the Skater Planet thing at the beginning, really playing kind of like rock music on it, you know, but it gives you the sound of her. And then when she comes back in the opening number and she sings in the middle of the opening number, we bring it back in.

[59:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So like the ukulele is the sound of Kimberly Labacco?

[1:00:02] John Clancy: Yes, yes. Except that we didn't use it on everything she sings, because it didn't work on everything. And we weren't trying to be quite that literal, but we were trying to give it the, you know, it doesn't get played for anybody else. That's for sure.

[1:00:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, there you go.

[1:00:15] John Clancy: And we used it twice in the opening number so that it would kind of like set her up for the show. And then it does bookend the show. So, yeah, I agree with you, though. I'm glad it's touching because I agree.

[1:00:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is. And there's so much to this culture here. And I got to like shout out the islands. There's so much to this culture here that like America could learn from. And it's one of the freaking United States and like it's completely ignored. And it sometimes makes me angry. But like it's all found within the sound of that ukulele. The way that it completely can transform the way that you feel just by bringing it in. And it's a perfect example here in the show is is kind of a symbol of the power of this place. So I love that that that's what Kim has as well, because as a character, that's who she is. Right. Because of her crazy set of circumstances and the crazy people that she's been that surround her, it has allowed her to be kind of become kind of superhuman in a way and afford a lot of grace to everyone around her.

And it's such an inspiring character, I think, because of that. It's like, what are you going to do if you're going to die tomorrow? You're just going to be angry at everybody? Are you going to get on Twitter and just like chew people out all day? Like that's not how you're going to spend the last moments of your life. Right. And Kim's figured that out at the age of 16.

[1:01:32] John Clancy: Yeah, no, it is super deep. I agree. And I think that's what's cool about, you know, that this show, it can kind of like speak to everybody because everybody's a person. Everybody loses people. Everyone's related to people. You know what I mean? Even as different as anyone might be. You know, I just think it can speak to anybody really in a different way.

[1:01:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So that's cool. Thank you so much for doing this with me, John Clancy. And thank you for bringing such great art to everybody because this is a special show. And if you go in expecting this like big Broadway musical, don't go in expecting that. That's what I want to say to people.

[1:02:05] John Clancy: And it still hits hard at times and has plenty of big moments. It's just not...

[1:02:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's also hilarious once again.

[1:02:11] John Clancy: It's hilarious. It's hilarious. And also I would urge people to... I'm not often proud of cast records because they don't always come out sounding the way I wish they sounded. But this one, Janine and I produced it ourselves and we got to mix it and all that stuff. So it really sounds... I mean, it just sounds awesome, to be honest. We had a great engineer, we had great people involved, and the record label was super supportive. And it sounds awesome. So it's not one that I like cower in the corner about, but it sounds legit. It really does. So I hope people listen to it.

[1:02:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's exciting. That's really exciting.

[1:02:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast at gmail.com. If you want to support the show, the best way to do so is by giving us a great review and rating wherever you might be listening. If you want to support us even more, we have Patreon! Where for only $1 a month, you can receive exclusive content and bonus episodes. We also have our TeePublic store, the profits of which go to Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS. More than anything, you all know I'm so grateful that you're a part of this great podcasting community. Hey, John, is there anything you want to say before we sign off?

[1:03:29] John Clancy: I just would urge people to see this show. It's a little show, but it's got a lot of punch, and it's important. And also, I would urge people to check out the cast recording, because it really came out really great, and the music is gorgeous in the show. So thank you for your time. I appreciate it.

[1:03:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Agreed. Oh my gosh, thank you. Everybody out there, thank you so much for listening, and go have a great adventure.