This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Gwen Hollander: I also have to just say because this is my one Maureen story. So I there's a honking noise that I do. It's one of my stupid human skills. I will try to do it here so that you can hopefully it will happen. Yeah. So that's my stupid human skill. And I used to do it. And now what inevitably happens if I ever do that around people is there, they start to try to do it. And you're like, Oh, yeah, I can't do it. Maureen tried for a year to do it. And I would hear her because we would hear her you know, warming up in her dressing room, which is so glorious and beautiful. And sometimes I would just hear her going like, and I was like, I can do something with my voice that Maureen McGovern can't do. It's like, I think Maureen McGovern's trying to honk. She's trying to honk. She's in her dressing room trying to honk.

[1:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons, you can call me Jeff. Now earlier this month, we covered the musical Little Me and today we are discussing the musical Little Women, which has been a request by several of you wonderful listeners and most recently by Jacob who wrote, quote, One of my all time favorite shows I've ever been a part of is Little Women. While it has some adaptation issues, it is a lovely take on a literary classic. It has a great score, holds some beloved powerhouse female characters, and the story shares relatable messages of life, loss, and love.

Well, Jacob, I agree with pretty much everything you said, and I'm so happy you wrote to us. Here to talk with me about this lovely take on a literary classic is one of the stars of the OG national tour of Little Women, where she played the sister everyone loves to hate. That's right, we're talking about Miss Amy March. Everyone, please welcome to the podcast Gwen Hollander. Hi, hi podcast. Hey, hey podcast. Hey podcast people. Isn't it funny how all of us podcasters refer to our podcast as though it's the only podcast that exists? No one's ever heard of a podcast until just now. Until just now, and you are on the podcast. The only podcast. Ridiculous. How are you? Thank you so much for doing this.

[2:29] Gwen Hollander: Oh, thank you so much for having me. This is such a treat because this feels like such a huge formative part of my life, Little Women, that I kind of forget happened sometimes because it was so long ago, but it was so hugely monumental for me at the time and in the course of my life. Okay, can we just dive in and may I ask why?

[2:53] Gwen Hollander: Well, I think it's the age that I was at the time. I mean, it was my first big job of that magnitude. I had toured a little bit before, but it was my first time doing a full year of a tour. And it is a really special story. And I think the bond that was formed with the girls I was on the road with who will be lifelong friends of mine. I'm so grateful for that time, which was also highly dramatic. It's a lot, touring is a lot and the show is not easy. And it was not easy for me. And I definitely, you know, I learned so much as an actor doing a show for a long run. And I learned so much about playing a character that I sometimes battled with liking. That was also really hard for me.

[3:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For sure. As a people pleaser to be like, I don't like her. And I wanted the audience to like her. So the integrity of like, well, she does some unlikable things and you have to be and it's not you.

[3:50] Gwen Hollander: Yes. But I did also learn so much about I would have friends in the audience who would have people around them who I guess also were the youngest and who were would say like during the show, they're like, Oh, I so I relate to that. I relate to that feeling. You know, I have that line during my meltdown where I'm like, I want something that's mine. And people would be like, Oh, yeah, I remember that feeling. That's that youngest feeling for sure.

[4:15] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, I have. Okay, so I have like 13 nieces and nephews. Yeah, there's just so many children. And my youngest sister has her youngest who is much younger than her than his brothers. And currently, he doesn't even though he's like two or three, he doesn't have his own toys. Everything that he plays with is like a pretend version of something he's seen an adult have.

[4:41] Gwen Hollander: Yes. And like, that's just being the youngest, right? He has his done, which is his phone, but it's not a phone, but it's like he can sniff out if it's a play phone. He doesn't want one of those because that's the adults have. Right. So like 100% relatable content, right?

[4:57] Gwen Hollander: Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's still today. I can't I mean, I'm sure you're like, I'm wearing all these hand me down clothes. I'm watching my older siblings do these things that I don't get to do. And I think that's kind of what helped me find her at a certain point is to be like, No, I kept, you know, being afraid of her being the villain. Yeah. But when you can really see where her actions stem from, and why she behaves the way she does, you can find some like compassion for her. And as somebody who is an older sibling to the youngest, we are the most protective of them.

[5:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yes, for sure. All right, question about touring with this show. I'm so curious to hear what your experience was like with audiences. Because number one, this is a quiet show, right? It's a little it's more simple than say, a wicked or, you know, something that we think of as a big touring type experience. What were the audiences like? What was the energy in the show, which I also can imagine was very feminine, in a much more complex way than we usually would use that word. You had a female director. So yeah, what did that all feel like?

[6:12] Gwen Hollander: Um, and again, because this was my first, it's so hard to have context. Yeah, nothing to compare to. I mean, I do in retrospect, but um, the audiences I found to be if they decide if you bought tickets to see little women, you knew what you were in for. So you were going to have a great time. You know, I think if anything, maybe we struggled. But I don't remember us not selling. I think we always sold pretty well in certain areas of the country, probably better than others. But if you went to little women, I think you knew what you were going to watch. What's so funny is in the very beginning of the tour, which by the way, we got delayed because our there was a fire. They had loaded fire within you start there was a fire within the theater and all of us.

Um, we found out, uh, this is a quick side note, we found out on our last day of rehearsal in New York, they like gathered us for a company meeting and we're like, Oh, no. And they're like, so all of our stuff was loaded into the globe in San Diego, and there was a fire. And they were still kind of figuring out that, you know, assessing the damage. So there was a lot of damage. It was less because of the fire and more because of the sprinkler system. So a lot of our scenery, like ours, they call they kept saying our soft goods. So like our drops and stuff like that were damaged. Fortunately, the costumes hadn't been loaded in because I think that might have been a deal breaker because those costumes are super expensive and gorgeous and special.

But a lot of our drops and stuff were damaged. So this amazing thing happened where all of these shops, every shop in the country kind of just started coming to the rescue of little women, and like either rebuilding our stuff or sending us drops that could work. So for our like first week of previews, we had like a drop from Oklahoma in the back. So like the show was like in a like our outdoor scene was like in a cornfield, which is so not appropriate, but it was like, Concord, Massachusetts, sure, pretty. So we didn't get like a real drops back for a while.

[8:13] Gwen Hollander: Wow. Yeah. And we were just rehearsing in a ballroom in San Diego for a week, everything got delayed. So we started with a real bang. But in our next city, we had this thing like we had like three days, where during the day, they had us sit in a hotel like boardroom with a press person, like a publicity person to kind of train us media training. We love media training, media training, but it was they were trying very specifically to lean into the, they almost wanted us to find ways to convince people that it wasn't just for women.

[8:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, interesting.

[8:50] Gwen Hollander: Yes, it was an interesting take. I think they wanted us to be like, No, boys will like it too. There's a sword fight. You know, they were telling us like, how can we lean into and I and I remember thinking at the time, this show is for everybody. It's about family and relationship.

[9:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Jacob was the one who requested it.

[9:08] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, I mean, I think that and at the time, we didn't know that I think this was a time where they very much leaned heavily into like, you know, Mother's Day, Mother's Day is a great time to go see little women. And and they were but they were like, how can we appeal to boys? And so it was funny to be like, Oh, there's a sword fight. And I'm like, there's not really a sword fight. There's like two people with swords and they go like, ha ha ha. But it's not that's not going to get like, five, you know, seven year old boys to be like, I want to go see little women.

[9:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[9:38] Gwen Hollander: So I think the key to all of it is just knowing that it's a human story. And you know, sure, a lot of men got dragged by their wives or their girlfriends or whatever. And once you're there, you're going to enjoy it. Because there's something for everyone to relate to. I don't know if I answered your question. I certainly ran circles around.

[9:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, it actually took me to a really interesting thing that I've been thinking about, which is that this show comes about, well, look, like selling tickets to theater has always been like the great thorn in the equation of how to keep this art form going. How do we get people to show up to the theater? And for the longest time, and this kind of goes back to our last show that we talked about Little Me, it was always about like, what can we do to get straight men to bring their wives to the theater? Because they're the ones who are buying tickets. So the elusive white straight male was the ticket buyer that everybody-

[10:28] Gwen Hollander: The white whale.

[10:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, exactly. 100% Moby Dick. And then, like Wicked comes around. And all of a sudden, the audience is really made up of moms and daughters. And producers were like, what?

[10:42] Gwen Hollander: I know.

[10:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right? They had no idea that this was even possible. So then come this little tidal wave of musicals that are also trying to cash in on that wicked audience. And Little Women is definitely one of them. Because the fact that it was on Broadway is quite an achievement in my estimations. It feels more like an off-Broadway show. But I'm glad that it had a Broadway run, because it's so much more well known because of it. So I think that the producers, once again, were trying to get those theater goers. And then they didn't, right? Then it didn't run as long as they hoped it would. It didn't become a Wicked. So now, cut to you in that ballroom. And they're like, we need boys. We need lots and lots of boys. It's a really interesting thing that we're always trying to walk that tightrope.

[11:34] Gwen Hollander: Find the in, for sure. And that's the thing, is I totally got what we were doing. And I'm so glad we had that media training. Because I think inevitably, a question will be like, who's the audience for this? And is this only a show for girls? It says Little Women in the title. It's already an uphill battle.

[11:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. But I don't know. I think in the end, at least on tour, you have built-in audiences on tour. It's different from Broadway. So I think in the end, it was just less of a concern. When a show comes to town, people go see the show. In Broadway, you go to New York, and you're like, oh, I have a choice of these shows.

[12:06] Gwen Hollander: Yeah.

[12:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so true. Talk to me about the dynamic of your cast. Did you find that people fell into their roles a little bit?

[12:14] Gwen Hollander: You know what? Kind of. In some ways, we did. Like I would say, Renee, who played Meg, I do definitely feel like Renee had kind of a, she's definitely a caretaker. Very mature. I think the youngest of all of us, actually, which is funny. Meg was the youngest.

[12:35] Gwen Hollander: But definitely I felt was the most mature sometimes, or more than me. She just felt like she really had her act together. And I used to room with her a lot. And I was always like, I feel like Renee's taking care of me. She's making sure I eat. She was the one that traveled with a hot plate and made all her own meals in the hotel. And I was like, look at you, she's got it together. Autumn also was very, Autumn had a maternal thing going on too. And then we had like such a parade of Joes because really, so yeah, there were a lot of knee problems in this show. Yeah, yes, because we learned so it's a lot of stairs, a lot of running up and down the stairs. And the shoes that we wore were actual like Amish work boots.

Like they were built for us, but they were like boots, they were serious boots. And I don't they I don't know that they were made for like dancing or repetitive motion like that. So Autumn had already had knee problems. Autumn ended up having to have knee surgery halfway through the tour. And then our Joe, Katie Fisher, also started having knee problems. So she had to like take a leave of absence. They brought out Julie Foldesai, who's also very, who was a very good friend of mine. It was so good to have her out there for a while. And so she was alternating with our understudy, Susan Spencer. And it was like a parade of Joes. We had so many Joes. I actually and I'm sure I'll get into this at some point.

One of the things I did, I write song parodies. And towards the end of the run, I wrote parodies of every single song in the show to play. I mean, little short snippets, but to sing at the closing party. And for Astonishing, it was like, I don't know who's playing Joe tonight. Like because it was just like, you don't ever know who's going to be out there. And sometimes one of our swings was, well, now it's Carrie McAllister. So I'm like, her maiden name was Carrie. I can't even remember Carrie Miller. And she's tiny. So she's littler than me. So when I would play Amy with Carrie, I felt like big sister. You're like, I felt insane because I would come out in the beginning and I was like, draw the girls at school were horrible to me.

You're so small. So we really did like have such a fun, alternating dynamic with that, too. Because whoever's playing, I mean, that changes everything. And all the Joes were so different in every way, vocally, physically, their approach to the role. And so that changes everything. And that kept things very exciting. How cool.

[15:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that's very cool. Well, speaking of a parade of Joes, this show, I mean, on the podcast, I say every episode, we're discussing the cultural and emotional impact of these stories. Right. And the novel Little Women has been adapted so many times. So many people have played Joe. I think there were two silent films then. And then in terms of talkies, we've had four, I think.

[15:33] Gwen Hollander: I think so, because Elizabeth was Elizabeth Taylor Joe or no, no version. She was I think she was Meg, right? Meg. She was Meg. And that was the second one because the Catherine Hepburn was before that. Right. Then we got the Winona Ryder, which I know, like the back of my hand. And then this, this last one, which I just thought was stunning, beautiful, perfect film. And then on top of that, then you've got all of the stray play versions, which, you know, started coming up pretty early and then the musical. So the cultural footprint of this story itself is enormous.

[16:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Let's talk a little bit about the woman behind that all. Her name is Louisa May Alcott. You may have heard of her. She was born in 1832. Did you all know that this book was that old? I hope so. She was born into this kind of transcendental household, right? Like the hippies of their day. And so much of her life is what becomes little women. She, she has these hippie dippy parents who, who believe in educating their daughters, but then at the same time, they don't really have a lot of income, a lot of solid income coming into their family. And so the education that she does get is very stop and go. She can sometimes go to school. She can, she sometimes doesn't. She starts working as a domestic and then ultimately like tries to get her, her writing career going.

When she moves to New York, she tries to get her stories published. And all of these stories are about revenge and passion, very quote unquote, unladylike things. She does end up getting a publisher because her stories are being featured in a magazines and such, but the publisher asks her to write a story for young women, which she boxed at and doesn't really want to do, but she ends up pulling from her story with her sisters growing up in her home just to please the publisher. She writes little women. He likes it. It gets published. She really doesn't expect anything from it. And then it literally becomes a phenomenon. Everybody loves it, which is pretty interesting given how forward thinking it was, how progressive it was for the time, but everybody loves it. And it becomes the book that she's most well known for.

[18:00] Gwen Hollander: Yeah. Pretty incredible. Did you read the book when you were younger?

[18:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I did not.

[18:07] Gwen Hollander: I did actually. I read it when I was very young. I was first introduced to it. I used to compete in Odyssey of the Mind, which I don't even know if people know. So I know it sounds so crazy. It's a creative problem solving competition I did it all the way up until like 10th grade. But I think my second year doing it, it's so hard to explain, but there's a performance component to it where you write and perform a thing and we did ours based on little women. And I played Beth in that one because I used to think I connected most to Beth because I played the piano and I think I fancied my... I was like, oh, I'm very delicate and I'm so sweet. I'm so nice. Yeah. I'm not that, but I mean, no, nothing. I'm not sweet. I just, I'm not by any, like there's nothing shy. Fair enough.

[19:03] Gwen Hollander: So I read it when I was very young and then I actually tried to read it again while we were doing the show. And it was hard for me to read while we were doing the show. And I don't know why I think it was, it felt like it was interfering. I was like, I think I need to not read this right now. But yes, I was familiar with it as a kid. I loved it. I loved that Winona Ryder movie so much. I think it's devastating. And I actually haven't seen the newest one because I know I'm still shocked because I think I wanted to see it. You know, I'm in LA and at the time, Renee, who played Meg on our tour, was also in LA. And I think we were going to see it together because we were like, how special would it be to see it together?

And then that didn't happen. And then I almost got too nervous to see it. It's so special to there. And I'm like that with a couple of things. Like the story is so special to me that I got scared of like, not that I thought they were going to mess it up because I heard it's beautiful. But I think I got scared of like, I felt I was feeling very raw at that time. And I was like, I don't think I can handle it. And then I just never saw it. And now at this point, I need to just see it.

[20:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You need to hunker down and watch that thing. And just watch it.

[20:08] Gwen Hollander: Yeah. While liberties were taken, it is all nuance.

[20:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And I'm OK with liberties being taken. I've seen clips and I saw the clip of like Amy's monologue about, you know, why shouldn't I want a job and why shouldn't I want to provide for myself? And I was like, that's amazing. And that's a great take. As someone who struggled with Amy's motivations, I was like, that's a great way of looking at that. She is actually very forward thinking in terms of like, I want to be able to care for myself and I want to have the means to be independent and, you know.

[20:40] Gwen Hollander: Absolutely. Live my best life. And they all came from the same house. No matter who Amy was when she was really little. Yeah. She's going to grow up to be a woman who was raised in that house.

[20:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. She's Marmee's daughter.

[20:50] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, exactly. Thank you. Much better put than that. OK. And so now the musical comes out. Did you know about it? Had you heard it before you auditioned for it?

[21:03] Gwen Hollander: So that's the other thing. I was incredibly close with Jason Howland and Danny Davis. She was a producer and they were the driving force, you know, behind moving it forward. So I was taking a class that they taught and I was like babysitting for their kids. So I was around. I auditioned for it for the first time before it even had a workshop like that. They did like a workshop thing at Duke and I auditioned for it way back then. And I mean, I was very new to the city and I was still new to auditioning. And I remember being like, this is a big deal. And I, you know, I did my best, but there was no way I was going to get that. And so I was I was very much around during the entire development of it.

[22:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: OK, so anything you can give me there? Let's talk about Jason Howland first, who was the composer, who is the composer. Excuse me. He's a well-known music director.

[22:06] Gwen Hollander: Yeah. Won a Grammy Award for Beautiful, Beautiful. Yeah. So very successful guy. This is one of the only big musicals that he's composed from scratch.

[22:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Although I think there's a new yeah, there's a new one opening Paradise Square. I think it's a new musical opening on Broadway that I believe he composed.

[22:20] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, this was a very big deal for him to like make his debut on Broadway like that with this music. And because I guess I know him because he was my teacher more almost as a music director. And I think he has such a wonderful understanding of all of that and how, you know, interpretation of a song and what.

[22:36] Gwen Hollander: Oh my God. But I will say, I mean, the that opening chord of Little Women that gets me like I have a visceral response to that. He's pretty amazing at motif.

[22:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. He knows when to introduce that. He knows where to put it, where it's going to hit you in your body. I mean, there are moments in that show that just take your breath away musically. And then because that moment in Fire Within Me when she yanks the drop cloth off the window and the stage floods with light and it's on that sting, she pulls it off and it's like, and I'm like, oh, you can't. I mean, it's full body chills. It's so beautiful. He knows what he's doing. That guy.

[23:00] Gwen Hollander: That's cool.

[23:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And I remember the evolution also of the end of Astonishing. I feel like there was a time when it ended up on that Astonishing, where that was actually the end of the song. It's like that E flat on an ing vowel. And I think they were like, we can't do that. That's not how you end Act One.

[23:37] Gwen Hollander: That poor, poor woman.

[23:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And, you know, how many ways can you modify the vowel in Astonishing? You know, I've heard Astonishah, Astonishing. Yeah, there's so, you know, and they were like, no, we got to add, it's got to end at last, a happier, happier note and a happier vowel. I mean, speaking of cultural footprint, who knew that one of the greatest things to come from the show would be the YouTube of a bunch of girls yelling Christopher Columbus.

[24:10] Gwen Hollander: It's so funny. It is so funny. It's pretty incredible. If you haven't watched it, listeners, please go and watch Christopher Columbus, Little Women. It's so funny.

[24:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: When I first took in this show, it was via CD. Got my little CD booklet right here.

[24:30] Gwen Hollander: Oh, yeah.

[24:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And when I first listened to it, I was surprised at how poppy it sounded to me. Now, I feel that I have now redacted, is that the right word?

[24:39] Gwen Hollander: You've retracted.

[24:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Retracted. Sure. Thank you. I have retracted that thought. I don't think that it is as poppy as I thought it would be, maybe because musical theater has become even more poppy since then.

[24:54] Gwen Hollander: Yes, yes. But I will say that I think the thing that I was picking up on is that this is a very straightforward adaptation in terms of the thoughts that are coming out. Sound time just passed and you'll look at his song and there will be like 16,000 different things going.

[25:09] Gwen Hollander: Welcome to the discussion about "Little Women." I'm so excited to dive into this musical adaptation of Louisa May Alcott's beloved novel.

[25:39] Gwen Hollander: The story really captures the essence of sisterhood and the struggles women face, especially during that time period.

[26:09] Gwen Hollander: Each of the March sisters represents different aspects of womanhood, and I think that's what makes it so relatable even today.

[26:14] Gwen Hollander: Jo, for instance, is such a strong character. She defies societal norms and pursues her passion for writing, which is incredibly inspiring.

[26:19] Gwen Hollander: And then there's Meg, who embodies the traditional role of women, yet she also has her own dreams and aspirations.

[26:24] Gwen Hollander: The musical does a fantastic job of highlighting these different perspectives and the choices women have to make.

[26:29] Gwen Hollander: I love how the score complements the emotional depth of the story. The music really brings the characters to life.

[26:34] Gwen Hollander: Plus, the themes of love, loss, and resilience resonate with audiences of all ages.

[26:39] Gwen Hollander: It's a reminder that while times change, the core struggles and triumphs of women remain timeless.

[26:44] Gwen Hollander: And I think that's why "Little Women" continues to be celebrated in various adaptations, including this musical.

[26:49] Gwen Hollander: The way it captures the spirit of the holidays is also special. It’s a perfect show to watch during this time of year.

[26:54] Gwen Hollander: The warmth and love of the March family really shine through, making it a heartwarming experience.

[26:59] Gwen Hollander: I also appreciate how the musical addresses the importance of female friendships and support.

[27:04] Gwen Hollander: It's not just about romantic relationships; it's about the bonds that women share with each other.

[27:09] Gwen Hollander: And that’s something that is incredibly powerful and necessary to highlight in today’s world.

[27:14] Gwen Hollander: I think audiences leave the show feeling uplifted and inspired to pursue their own dreams.

[27:19] Gwen Hollander: It’s a celebration of women’s strength and resilience, which is something we can all relate to.

[27:25] Gwen Hollander: I’m really looking forward to discussing more about the characters and the music with you.

[27:31] Gwen Hollander: There’s so much to unpack in this beautiful story.

[27:37] Gwen Hollander: And I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it as well!

[27:43] Gwen Hollander: So, let’s dive deeper into the themes and the music that make "Little Women" so special.

[27:49] Gwen Hollander: I think we should start with Jo’s character and her journey throughout the musical.

[27:54] Gwen Hollander: Her ambition and determination really set the tone for the entire story.

[28:00] Gwen Hollander: It’s fascinating to see how her character evolves and the challenges she faces along the way.

[28:06] Gwen Hollander: And the way the musical portrays her struggles with identity and societal expectations is so poignant.

[28:12] Gwen Hollander: It really resonates with anyone who has ever felt torn between their dreams and societal pressures.

[28:18] Gwen Hollander: I think that’s one of the reasons why audiences connect so deeply with her character.

[28:24] Gwen Hollander: She’s relatable, and her journey is one of self-discovery and empowerment.

[28:30] Gwen Hollander: Plus, the music that accompanies her journey is just stunning.

[28:36] Gwen Hollander: The songs really capture her emotions and the highs and lows of her experiences.

[28:42] Gwen Hollander: It’s a beautiful blend of storytelling and music that makes the character’s journey unforgettable.

[28:48] Gwen Hollander: I’d love to hear your favorite moments from the musical as we continue our discussion.

[28:54] Gwen Hollander: There are so many memorable scenes and songs that really stand out.

[29:00] Gwen Hollander: Each moment adds to the overall impact of the story and its themes.

[29:06] Gwen Hollander: So, what are some of your favorite aspects of "Little Women"?

[29:12] Gwen Hollander: I think it’s important to highlight how the musical portrays the different paths that women can take.

[29:18] Gwen Hollander: Each sister has her own unique journey, and that diversity is what makes the story so rich.

[29:24] Gwen Hollander: It’s a celebration of individuality and the choices we make in life.

[29:30] Gwen Hollander: And I think that’s a message that resonates with everyone, regardless of gender.

[29:36] Gwen Hollander: The musical really encourages us to embrace our true selves and pursue our passions.

[29:42] Gwen Hollander: That’s something we can all take away from this beautiful adaptation.

[29:48] Gwen Hollander: I’m excited to explore more about the other characters and their journeys as well.

[29:54] Gwen Hollander: Each sister brings something unique to the table, and their dynamics are so well portrayed.

[30:00] Gwen Hollander: It’s a testament to the strength of female relationships and the importance of support.

[30:06] Gwen Hollander: So, let’s dive into the character of Meg next and discuss her journey.

[30:12] Gwen Hollander: I think her story is particularly interesting because it highlights the tension between ambition and tradition.

[30:17] Gwen Hollander: She represents the societal expectations placed on women, yet she also has her own dreams.

[30:47] Gwen Hollander: It’s a delicate balance, and the musical does a great job of exploring that.

[31:17] Gwen Hollander: I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts on Meg and how her character evolves throughout the story.

[31:47] Gwen Hollander: There’s so much depth to her character, and I think it’s important to discuss her choices.

[32:17] Gwen Hollander: It really adds to the overall message of the musical and the themes of empowerment.

[32:47] Gwen Hollander: So, let’s continue our conversation about the March sisters and their journeys.

[33:17] Gwen Hollander: Each character has their own struggles, and it’s fascinating to see how they navigate their paths.

[33:47] Gwen Hollander: I think that’s what makes "Little Women" such a timeless story.

[34:17] Gwen Hollander: It speaks to the universal experiences of women and the challenges we face.

[34:47] Gwen Hollander: And the way the musical captures those experiences is truly remarkable.

[35:17] Gwen Hollander: I’m excited to keep exploring these themes and the impact of the characters.

[35:47] Gwen Hollander: There’s so much to discuss, and I can’t wait to hear more of your insights.

[36:17] Gwen Hollander: Let’s keep the conversation going and dive deeper into the music and storytelling.

[36:47] Gwen Hollander: I think we’re just scratching the surface of what makes "Little Women" so special.

[37:17] Gwen Hollander: So, let’s continue to celebrate this incredible musical and its powerful messages.

[37:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome back to A Musical Theatre Podcast. Today, we're celebrating "Women Power" with the 2005 musical adaptation of Louisa May Alcott's groundbreaking novel, Little Women.

[38:14] Gwen Hollander: I'm so excited to be here and talk about this beautiful musical!

[39:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's such a heartfelt story, and I can't wait to dive into it with you.

[39:44] Gwen Hollander: Absolutely! The themes of sisterhood and empowerment resonate so much, especially during the holidays.

[40:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes! And the characters are so relatable, each representing different aspects of womanhood.

[40:44] Gwen Hollander: Exactly! I think that's what makes it timeless.

[41:15] ♪ Musical number: "Astonishing" — performed by the cast of Little Women ♪

[41:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That song really captures the essence of the characters' journeys, doesn't it?

[42:02] Gwen Hollander: It truly does! It's all about striving for your dreams and finding your voice.

[42:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the music is just so uplifting.

[42:48] Gwen Hollander: I love how it blends the emotional depth with such beautiful melodies.

[43:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Speaking of emotional depth, let's talk about the character arcs in the show.

[43:40] Gwen Hollander: Each sister has her own unique path, and they all grow in such meaningful ways.

[44:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right! Jo's ambition, Meg's desire for family, Beth's kindness, and Amy's artistic journey all intertwine beautifully.

[44:36] Gwen Hollander: And their relationships with each other are so well-developed.

[45:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a true testament to Alcott's writing and the adaptation's ability to bring that to life.

[45:32] Gwen Hollander: Absolutely! The musical really honors the spirit of the original novel.

[46:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it’s so relevant today, especially with the conversations around women's empowerment.

[46:28] Gwen Hollander: Yes! It inspires us to be bold and pursue our passions.

[46:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love that message.

[47:24] Gwen Hollander: It's a reminder that we can all be "astonishing" in our own ways.

[47:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well said!

[48:20] Gwen Hollander: Thank you! I'm just so passionate about this show.

[48:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it shows! Your enthusiasm is infectious.

[49:12] Gwen Hollander: I hope everyone feels inspired to explore their own creativity.

[49:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's the goal!

[50:04] Gwen Hollander: Let's keep celebrating these incredible stories.

[50:20] Jen Kahn: They're all the same nonprofit so they can get like tickets for $10, so not only does it introduce a whole group of students to see Cedar that may not have access to theater on their own, but it continues to allow them to be patrons of the arts forever, so they're really big on just accessibility in general for the arts. Oh, my God, this is to support them my favorite thing that I've learned today. Thank you so much for bringing that to my attention. I don't know how I didn't know about this. Clearly, we don't talk about it enough. I think that that's good for me to know because it's a huge part of like literally I just kind of took everything I care about and like squished it into a company. It was like there. This is my whole life makes sense. This is everything I care about. We're saving art from a landfill, we're giving people theater memories, and we're introducing a new generation to theater. Like there we go. I just like my whole life makes sense now.

[51:20] Gwen Hollander: You're basically Joe March at this point.

[51:26] Jen Kahn: Exactly. That's really, really beautiful though. Did so this idea of turning scenery into accessories come from maybe your stage management background?

[51:36] Jen Kahn: It came from all of who I am. It's very funny. I don't know if you know, so while we worked together, I was also running a blog.

[51:44] Gwen Hollander: Okay, I did not know this but I did know that you're super chic always.

[51:50] Jen Kahn: Always, always. You like taste level super high. So I do know this, but you were blogging.

[51:57] Jen Kahn: Thank you! It was my super duper secret from the theater world because I was a stage manager and this was back in the day where like stage managers weren't allowed to be like fashionable and cool and have like a social media. Like now it's trendy, like now it's like sure. Okay, but then it was like the kiss of death. You're like, oh, you're one of those. Like you clearly aren't a serious stage manager if you have a fashion blog.

[52:19] Jen Kahn: I had a fashion blog and so I had a blog that I ran for four years that was give back an ethical style. And it was just kind of like the balance of like wearing black in the dark backstage in theater and like this way to express creativity through style and largely focused on fair trade, ethically made, eco-friendly style and companies that had some kind of a give-back component. And there's like these two halves of myself that I really didn't let intermingle at all. And then when I had this idea for scenery bags, it was like, oh well now my whole life makes sense. I've just married these two pieces of my heart that I've been fostering for the last decade and here we go.

[53:06] Gwen Hollander: And what was the first product that you guys made? Like when did you know? Okay, this is a thing. It's people are loving it.

[53:10] Jen Kahn: I had this idea in 2015 and my first call was to one Mr. Brian Wells.

[53:23] Gwen Hollander: Yes, for those of you who don't know who didn't work at Starlight Musical Theater, Brian Diego. Shout out San Diego theater. Brian was a director turned now he rents the sets and so he has a ton of inventory of old tour sets that they rent regionally. Shout out to Music and Theater Company if you need a set or costume rental, check them out.

[53:46] Jen Kahn: But I called Brian and like literally the night I had this idea and I was like, hey, do you have any trash from your sets that you don't want that I can have? And he's like, I love this idea and you know, I don't throw anything away. Yeah, come to the warehouse when you get back from your trip. So I did and he gave me 600 pounds of drops from national tours and Broadway and it sat in my parents' storage unit in San Diego, which I'm sure they thought they would never get rid of because I am a serial entrepreneur. My friends make fun of me that if I have any time off between shows while I was a stage manager, I would start at least one company. Like this is just what I do. It's a problem, but I was just like if I had free time, my brain just didn't stop. I'm like, okay, well then now what do we do?

[54:35] Jen Kahn: Then I finally had some pockets of time that I was like kick the can down the road just far enough to like keep the ball moving forward. I found a manufacturer. They made a sample group of 25 bags and I put them up on our Instagram account and that was it. We didn't have a website. I just put up on like scenery bags Instagram that was followed largely by just like friends of mine and we sold out in 48 hours. And I was like, oh my gosh, people like this idea because I loved it, but I didn't know that everyone else would love it necessarily. Like you never know proof of concept until concept is proven.

[55:17] Jen Kahn: So, and one of the people who was a huge champion of scenery bags from the beginning was Krista Rodriguez who I love and adore, Broadway's own and television's own. Directly after the summer of 2015 is when I was able to work on the Broadway revival of the Deaf West production of Spring Awakening and Krista was in it and I told her about this idea and she loved it and she's like, as soon as you have a bag, like I need one. I can so do you need help? Like she's an amazing human on every level. And so she got one of the first bags. She posted it on her Instagram. We got like a thousand new followers in a day, one of which was Rachel Bloom, who's the creator and star of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and she emailed me personally, like directly emailed me, was like, how do I get one of these bags? This is such a cool idea. I sent her a bag clearly and knowing that she was gonna get one, I started, I put up a website like in an afternoon.

[56:22] Jen Kahn: Oh, it also I had a three-month-old at this point. Like the thing that I wanted to be time to work on the company was because I had a baby and I was home. But like, I'm you had a baby. I had a baby. Well, but like as a stage manager, I was never home ever and like you're like, oh my gosh, I have so much time. Well, it's something like being a mother is the hardest job I've ever had, like bar none. But at the same time, I was home and so I could like rock or nurse my baby while I like type with one hand and that's how I started my company. I built a website in an afternoon. I had set up like a waitlist on this landing page and like 200 people on the waitlist and then our manufacturer in LA said we're not gonna be able to keep up. We're out.

[57:05] Jen Kahn: Wow, which actually like in hindsight that was such a gift for them to be honest with me and not pretend that they were gonna be able to keep up and we'd all be in trouble. So then I found a new manufacturer in Florida and sent them the sample. They're like, they said what they could make it. I'm like great because we need to make like 200 tomorrow and I sent them like the 600 pounds of drops from my parents' storage unit. And then Upworthy, the publication, they messaged me on our Facebook page of all places and were like, this is really cool. We saw what you were doing through Rachel Bloom's post. Can we interview you for a feature? And I was like, yeah, you totally can. And so they did and they said it'll come out sometime in August. We'll let you know.

[58:10] Jen Kahn: The morning of August 1st, the story drops on Upworthy and I had no idea and all of a sudden like everything starts blowing up like my phone, my computer and I was like what is happening? And I so I went and found out the article had dropped, ran to my computer and in the time it took me to realize the article had dropped and get to my computer and change it over to a pre-order, we had 800 new people on the waitlist and we sold 4,000 bags in 24 hours pre-orders. Holy. So that was the moment I feel realized that this was a thing. Concept was proven, but it was also one of those like the most amazing and terrifying days of my life like watching. I don't remember that commercial where they're like there's like the small business and they like start up and they see like the ticker move and like people are buying their products and it goes like I was living that in real time.

[58:52] Jen Kahn: And then my shop in Florida got hit by Hurricane Irene.

[58:57] Gwen Hollander: Shut down.

[58:58] Jen Kahn: Oh my gosh. So it's one of the like I always tell like whenever I tell our story like August 1st the article hit and then mid-August the hurricane hit. Like it's important to tell the breadth of August as an entrepreneur that like this amazing thing will happen and then the universe will test you and make you fight to keep the amazing thing like moving forward.

[59:19] Jen Kahn: Keep doing it. They got back up and running. I emailed everybody. By that time we had 5,000 orders and it took us till December of that year to fulfill all of them. And I think we had maybe five people cancel their order because I didn't want to wait and everyone else stuck it out and wanted to be a part of what we were doing and that was kind of like then we've kind of been chased by that boulder ever since trying to like create new things and now we work with stage decks and we make them into jewelry. We work with like marketing banners and billboards. So basically if anyone's like hey, I have this trash that was from a Broadway set or a theater set, do you want it? My answer is yes, and then we figure out how to use it on the back end.

[1:00:01] Jen Kahn: So things will arrive and we're like, what do we make out of you? Maybe a bracelet? Like we just like and that's the fun of it. Like you've constantly created new things, which is cool.

[1:00:12] Gwen Hollander: Now do you have any advice to women out there who may be listening and feeling their own, you know, Joe March drum within to create a business to pave their way?

[1:00:23] Jen Kahn: Mm-hmm. Do it. I really, it's like you got to just start and start and then also find the people who are going to help you like get to your finish line, get to your next goal and tell them like tell your cheerleaders first and like hopefully you have them. If you don't have them, like DM me and I will be part of your cheer squad happily, like for real. But like tell those people and don't tell anybody else your idea because when you tell everybody your good idea, it releases serotonin levels in you that gives you like the pat on the back like oh because everyone's like oh my God, the idea is so awesome and then you feel like you've accomplished something and then you don't do the thing.

[1:01:10] Jen Kahn: Oh, like it's scientifically proven that like telling a lot of people your really good idea leads to you never doing your really good idea. So tell the people who will champion you like find your Krista Rodriguez who will ask you about it in the wings of the show you're doing and like, you know, keep encouraging you to move forward and then stop at that circle, use that energy to do and create.

[1:01:34] Jen Kahn: I will say being a female entrepreneur right now, there's such energy behind it that it's like not even about elevator down. It's like get in my car, which is very cool, which is very cool. And also if there are any moms out there listening, it's never been easier for us because we can take our business with us in our phone. We can do our business from anywhere and that opens a lot of doors for us who are like, you know, I can manage my company while I'm waiting in car line to pick up my child or drop off my child. You know, like rather than having to in the olden times be at an office somewhere. It really gives you flexibility.

[1:02:13] Jen Kahn: So it seems daunting and it is at times realistically daunting, but it's worth it and it's fun and it's doable. You just have to start.

[1:02:23] Gwen Hollander: Wow, I am inspired.

[1:02:27] Jen Kahn: Another thing that I always tell new entrepreneurs is when you start, you will feel unqualified. You will imposter syndrome, whatever it is. I have a degree of BFA in stage management and I'm running a fashion retail company. So, yeah, I did not go to school for this. I can't, so I'm not a jeweler, but I care about it more than anyone else and your passion qualifies you. Your passion.

[1:02:54] Gwen Hollander: So Act Two begins, and now we've kind of caught up. Now we're going through time chronologically.

[1:03:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And this is the longest musical sequence in the show.

[1:03:30] Gwen Hollander: Yeah.

[1:03:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Talk to me about why you think that is. Why is this moment at the beginning of the second act, in which all of the actors act out the story that Jo has finally been able to sell, why is that so important?

[1:03:44] Gwen Hollander: I wonder if it's just like, here's where she went. She went so hardcore, because I think we want to see how far she had to come to come back to herself. So it's like, she went, there's a troll. There's a hat. Guess who's playing the troll, by the way?

[1:04:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, so fun.

[1:04:06] Gwen Hollander: What a great idea. It was so much fun to be the troll. But I think it's just to show how far she went with it. It's like she put everything into the story and she put everything fantastical and everything that has nothing to do with anything real. It makes it that much more crushing when you do this whole long thing, and then the professor's like, I don't like that. And it's like, we've just done a full epic, like Lord of the Rings style musical number with the whole cast on stage.

[1:04:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. And then from a visual storytelling place, you see what the answer to the problem is, which is, underneath it all is her family. Underneath all of this storytelling is hidden the fact that the real story has been by her side and in her house.

[1:05:02] Gwen Hollander: Yes. By the way, Orchard House, which is the-

[1:05:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We went.

[1:05:06] Gwen Hollander: Did you go?

[1:05:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, when we played Boston. I had no idea that it existed. And then I saw it online. When we played Boston, we went in there. We did some kind of like event there.

[1:05:15] Gwen Hollander: Oh, how cool.

[1:05:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that was very special. He basically challenges Jo to try again, right? To try harder. She learns that Beth is sick.

[1:05:26] Gwen Hollander: And so she leaves New York, goes back home. And Beth has contracted scarlet fever. And as is the case, I think for most things in this time period, they think that like by taking them to the beach that they'll get some fresh air.

[1:05:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, the sea air.

[1:05:42] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, it's always good for you. And so Jo takes her there. And I so relate to this question that Jo is always asking, which is, give me a task to do.

[1:05:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I love it.

[1:05:53] Gwen Hollander: Tell me to do something, please, because I just want to make this better. And Beth just basically says, well, the only thing you can do is let me go, because that's what I've had to do.

[1:06:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:06:07] Gwen Hollander: It's so real and so sweet. And that song is just like perfect, once again. It's so perfect. And all she wants, she's like, I'm you, you're me. All I want is for you to go be amazing. She's like, that's what you can do for me, is you can keep living and you can go be amazing because like, I know you can be.

[1:06:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And a little bit later, when Marmee backs that up with the amazing Days of Plenty, it's doing that same thing, which is if you want to honor the people who have passed on before you, then live life to its freaking fullest.

[1:06:41] Gwen Hollander: Yeah.

[1:06:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because...

[1:06:43] Gwen Hollander: That's all that Beth, yeah, that's how you honor Beth. That's what she wanted.

[1:06:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's what she would want. You can't fall apart.

[1:06:48] Gwen Hollander: Yeah.

[1:06:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's why I always think it's funny when, like, if you're going through a hard time, and someone's like, well, if it makes you feel any better, my car broke down. And I'm like, why would that make me feel better?

[1:07:01] Gwen Hollander: Right.

[1:07:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That something bad happened to you.

[1:07:04] Gwen Hollander: Exactly.

[1:07:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That makes me feel worse. You know?

[1:07:07] Gwen Hollander: So the world just sucks in general. Awesome.

[1:07:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And I have that. I mean, grief is like the name of the game. I'm constantly dealing with grief. I'm currently like in trauma therapy, like confronting grief. It's, you know, and it changes and grows. And I know when people talk about, I do have friends who will be like, oh, I'm so mad at my mom right now. And then they're like, oh, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, don't be sorry. You're a human being, like, you're allowed to be mad at your mom. You know, we all it's, it's its own thing.

[1:07:45] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, you know?

[1:07:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And it doesn't mean that we don't have empathy, right?

[1:07:49] Gwen Hollander: No.

[1:07:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But it means like, the truer definition of empathy is that we go through it together.

[1:07:54] Gwen Hollander: What and just do it authentically. There's space for everybody.

[1:07:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[1:07:59] Gwen Hollander: And everyone's experience and and by living them more fully, I think we support everyone in the process in their own, their own stages of whatever they're going through.

[1:08:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Agreed. And the show really demonstrates that beautifully.

[1:08:09] Gwen Hollander: Yeah.

[1:08:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Plot twist, Amy comes back from Europe. And while she was there, saw Laurie, and now they're getting married.

[1:08:18] Gwen Hollander: Yeah. And that's another thing, I guess, that happens off stage that we get the luxury of seeing in the movies that we get to see him kind of courting her and, and this yeah, it does kind of like, oh, they're together now.

[1:08:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I do love the song, though, because they don't explicitly say like, we are really nervous about telling you this, but the way that it's written.

[1:08:39] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, yeah.

[1:08:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They're stumbling there.

[1:08:42] Gwen Hollander: And they're adorable together. So I think that makes that gives you peace that like, because I think initially, you'd be like, they're together. That makes no sense.

[1:08:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[1:08:51] Gwen Hollander: But then you see how precious they are together. And they're finishing each other's sentences. And that's why I love that there we were in Venice in a gondola in Venice when she suddenly and then he falls out of the boat. And it's adorable. And you're okay with it.

[1:09:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[1:09:06] Gwen Hollander: Does it mean that we don't wish Joe and Laurie ended up together? No, but like that's life people.

[1:09:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And but that is I think that is like we said, that's what's revolutionary about a marriage. She kind of had sworn she'd never get married. And then she finds a marriage that makes sense for her, which is a really great juxtaposition to Laurie. If if Joe is Laurie, then what Joe needs is someone who's just giving her space to be Joe.

[1:09:34] Gwen Hollander: Exactly. Exactly.

[1:09:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And what Professor Bearer ultimately says in this really sweet metaphor, I don't know if it comes from the book or not. But if it's raining outside, and all we have in common is the umbrella, then let the umbrella be the fact that we love each other.

[1:09:49] Gwen Hollander: Yeah. Oh, ah, right?

[1:09:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, so cute. Yeah. And profound. Um, the only thing that we skipped over was fire within me, which feels like the ending of the show. Honestly, right?

[1:10:02] Gwen Hollander: Yes, everything that we've just discussed about her, you know, finally realizing that Professor bears a great match is more of an epilogue. For sure. It's the moment she realizes that the story she needs to write is her family's it's it's her story. And it's it's a trope. I mean, this is something we see even having just watched Tick Tick Boom, which I don't know if you've seen yet.

[1:10:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Um, but the whole like, write what you know, yeah, you know, that's what people want.

[1:10:32] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, people want to see your heart, and not see your fantastical, you know, stories about the future, or, you know, witches and hags, people want to see something they can relate to.

[1:10:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The fire within me, though, is is I like it even more than astonishing, to be honest.

[1:10:51] Gwen Hollander: Me too. It's my favorite song. I've wanted to sing it like in concerts before, but it's just so hard because it has the whole section of like, there's like a scene inside of it.

[1:11:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, you're pointing out the different set pieces and things.

[1:11:04] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, but man, it's a great song. And her when she pulls the drop cloth off. And then when she pulls that shell out, and that's when the best motif comes back. You hear the little and you're something.

[1:11:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, just it's just so good. It's so satisfying. So I mean, it's got to be really great as Jo to have an arc.

[1:11:24] Gwen Hollander: So yes, so beautifully crafted. I mean, I still I'm getting too old for any of this, but I still dream of playing Jo. I mean, that's the that's the one you get to live the whole thing. You have a whole life. And then even like the way she's dressed by the end. She's in mourning clothes, you know, she's in like the all gray, she's gone from being this tomboy and pants to being, you know, this woman with her hair up, wearing, you know, dark, somber clothing. And she's this totally she's a woman.

[1:11:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, she swore she'd never be, you know, yeah, as we swear, we'd never be.

[1:12:01] Gwen Hollander: Yeah, right. Well, look, I gotta say, I loved this episode. Thank you so much for talking through this with me. It's there. There's so much here. And I kind of expected that we would be able to talk about some profound things. But I don't think I had I was not prepared. So thank you.

[1:12:21] Gwen Hollander: Thank you. This was so much fun for me to talk about this. I mean, it just feels like another chapter of my life. You know, absolutely, absolutely. As I'm sure there will be many more and I can't wait to see them. Thanks.

[1:12:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have shows you'd like to recommend we cover here on a musical theater podcast, like our friend Jacob, please email me at a musical podcast at gmail.com. Also, be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at a musical podcast. We're also on TikTok. We have a tea public store that where you can buy great shirts like the one I'm wearing now. You also can subscribe to Patreon for only $1 a month in which you'll receive exclusive episodes and bonus materials. I'm really excited about some of the ones that we have coming up in the new year.

[1:13:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Hey, Miss Gwen, how do we follow you and everything you're up to?

[1:13:17] Gwen Hollander: Um, so I'm on Instagram and my handle is Gwenstagram 811.

[1:13:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Smart, smart.

[1:13:23] Gwen Hollander: I'm a thank you. I'm on TikTok, but I don't ever post except for when I sing songs with Cassie Silva. So honestly, anything I do is probably going to end up on Cassie's.

[1:13:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 100% love Cassie Silva.

[1:13:33] Gwen Hollander: And yeah, and then Facebook, but who does that anymore?

[1:13:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Gwen, you are a delight. Thank you so, so much. Have a wonderful, wonderful holiday season. Are you did you do Hanukkah this year?

[1:13:46] Gwen Hollander: Um, we kind of know.

[1:13:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It sneaks up on you early this year, it was like Thanksgiving, and then it was Hanukkah.

[1:13:52] Gwen Hollander: Well, that is that is really difficult. The calendar, it does not help with Hanukkah.

[1:13:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It doesn't help. And I mean, I never super celebrated it. Anyway, I enjoy it. We you know, we put a Christmas tree up and we're kind of just I kind of just celebrate the season.

[1:14:06] Gwen Hollander: Love it. Enjoy that season, please.

[1:14:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's festive.

[1:14:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Hey, everybody out there. Thank you so much for listening. And remember, you know what? Be astonishing.

[1:14:15] Gwen Hollander: Yeah.

[1:14:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Or Astonishing.

[1:14:17] Gwen Hollander: Be Astonishing. Christopher Columbus.