This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They're all complicit. Like, every single girl in there is a mean girl. Like, it's called Mean Girls plural, not Mean Girl.

[0:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theatre history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, I'm wearing pink because we are discussing the musical Mean Girls, a listener request from Olivia, who wrote us and said, quote, Mean Girls is rich in storytelling and has lovable characters, unquote. You are correct, Olivia. Thank you for writing in. I'm excited to be covering it today with someone who is currently in the world of North Shore High. Lizzy Tucker made her Broadway debut in Boop, the musical Boop, where she covered the titular character and can now be seen as everyone's favorite high belting emo girl, Janice Arkeesian, in Mean Girls at the Cape Playhouse in Dennis, Massachusetts. Everyone, please welcome Lizzy Tucker. How are you, Lizzy? Thank you so much for being here.

[1:28] Lizzy Tucker: Of course. Thank you for having me. I'm doing great. You know, I'm in Cape Cod. Can't complain.

[1:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Never been. Describe.

[1:36] Lizzy Tucker: It's so nice here. There is so much to do. It's just like very, very relaxing. And it's really nice that the contract is here because you can go to the beach and then at 7:30 come and do a show. And then that's awesome. You really can't complain.

[1:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, you grew up pretty far from the beach, right? Did I read correctly that you're a Tyler, Texas girl?

[1:59] Lizzy Tucker: You did read correctly. I am from Tyler, Texas. I grew up there mostly in another small town on Hawkins, Texas, a little outside of Tyler.

[2:09] Lizzy Tucker: So when I lived in Los Angeles forever and on my birthdays, because I lived in Texas for a couple of years as a missionary. And yes. So whenever it was my birthday in L.A., I would go to Dr. Hogley Wogley's Tyler, Texas barbecue where you would show up and eat like a carnivore and get the meat sweats. And it was wonderful. You know what I mean?

[2:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, I know. Yeah.

[2:35] Lizzy Tucker: And like that's one of the things I love about Texas. And also one of the reasons why I shouldn't be there every day, because you don't you shouldn't do that, you know, you shouldn't do that all the time.

[2:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No.

[2:49] Lizzy Tucker: We're gonna talk more about you growing up because you can't talk about Mean Girls and not bring up high school.

[2:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I want to be I want to be here. Mm hmm.

[2:57] Lizzy Tucker: Exactly.

[2:58] Lizzy Tucker: So we're gonna we're gonna definitely talk about that. Before we get into it, though. When did you guys open? Because you're.

[3:05] Lizzy Tucker: Yes, we opened last Thursday.

[3:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, congratulations.

[3:09] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. Thank you so much. It's kind of crazy. Like this whole process happened very, very quickly. But our amazing director, Blackstone, and his assistant, Betty, helped us like get the ground moving. And our amazing dance captain, Melissa, and all of our stage managers, Kelsey, Gabby, and Emma, like they were great leaders in the space and really like helped us stay grounded and focused and also helped us have fun in the process.

[3:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So more fun than stress.

[3:39] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. So it really made the crazy rehearsal process even more fun.

[3:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. I when we were working together to get this episode going, I received like a fact sheet about the Cape Playhouse, which, by the way, anybody out there listening, send me a fact sheet, because what's the worst thing that could happen? I remember something and say it on microphone like what I'm about to say right now, which is next year, the Cape Playhouse celebrates its 100th anniversary. Like, are you kidding me? So this place has been going strong for forever. And celebrating, I guess, number 99 with you guys and Mean Girls like that's pretty amazing.

[4:18] Lizzy Tucker: No, yeah. And it's like a lot. It's really crazy. Just getting to be here because a lot of stars like made their start here. Like it literally used to be called the birthplace of the stars. Like Betty Davis started there as an usher before she even like started acting. Henry Fonda, Betty White, a lot of big, big names have made their start here. And to even be in a room in a place with that energy like, no, that's what's so cool about this theater. So cool.

[4:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, now I have to be honest, I can't imagine what Betty Davis would have thought about ushering at Mean Girls. Like that is something that I would love to imagine. But still, I'm really excited to talk about this show because there's so much intelligence and so much intention behind it. It's not just mean, it's not just catty. So let's dive in. First up, what's your relationship to Mean Girls? You're obviously pretty young. So when did you discover it?

[5:25] Lizzy Tucker: Okay, so I actually have a lot of lore with this movie. This has been one of my favorite movies since the third grade, the third grade, which I should not have been watching this in the third grade. But I did and it's been with me ever since. This has been one of my comfort movies for the longest time. To this day, I will quote Mr. Duvall's immediately, immediately. They're obviously, this is one of the most well known and quoted movies of all time.

[6:00] Lizzy Tucker: Yes, so well quoted.

[6:01] Lizzy Tucker: Even if you've never heard of Mean Girls, you've heard of On Wednesdays We Wear Pink or Get in Losers, We're Going Shopping. You've heard all the quotes and everything.

[6:09] Lizzy Tucker: You can't sit with us.

[6:11] Lizzy Tucker: You can't sit with us. You know the movie. And even in third grade, I didn't know what, oh, you can't sit with us. I didn't know what that was. I was like, oh, okay, what? And I will say that when we look back at the original Mean Girls, it does feel somewhat innocent compared to Bottoms or some of the other high school films that have come out since.

[6:32] Lizzy Tucker: For sure.

[6:33] Lizzy Tucker: Or maybe even predated it like Porky's or any of those 80s sex comedies. Mean Girls is maybe a little bit more wholehearted.

[6:41] Lizzy Tucker: I agree. There's a lot of heart and nuance that's in that movie that you wouldn't know before watching it. But I really appreciated the movie growing up because it kind of gave me a glimpse of what high school could be like. And in a way, it was accurate. I think there is something preparatory about Mean Girls, and I have to believe that that was one of Tina Fey's intentions behind it. And now we need to talk about Queen Bees and Wannabes.

[7:14] Lizzy Tucker: Tina Fey, which I guess, okay, put a pin in Queen Bees. Tina Fey.

[7:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Tina Fey.

[7:20] Lizzy Tucker: This woman.

[7:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Genius. Her mind.

[7:22] Lizzy Tucker: This woman. Saturday Night Live, obviously, is where maybe the world got to know Tina Fey. She grew up in Second City in Chicago doing improv. That's how she met Amy Poehler. That's how she met her husband, Jeff Richman, who, by the way...

[7:37] Lizzy Tucker: Wrote the music.

[7:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wrote the music for Mean Girls. But I got to know her on Saturday Night Live.

[7:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, I feel like there's kind of a common agreement that when kids who are interested in comedy first discover Saturday Night Live, the cast that they discover is always their favorite. And that is definitely me with Ms. Fey. Because when I found SNL, it was the Tina years. It was starting with Molly Shannon, Sherry O'Terry, then going into Maya Rudolph and Amy Poehler. And that whole section of time was my most favorite. And it was also what turned her into a superstar because not only did she become the first female head writer at the show and served in that position for many years, she also became the host of Weekend Update.

[8:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And as Lauren Michaels, the creator of SNL, always says, Weekend Update is the one chance that you get to look straight at the camera and say, Hi, my name is Tina Fey. And this is Weekend Update. So, you actually get to introduce yourself to the audience at home as yourself, not just as these wacky characters. So, head writer and Weekend Update anchor, she becomes very well known. So, by the time we get Mean Girls the film in 2004, I'm a fan. I know this is coming out. I'm excited to see it. I saw it in the movie theaters. Loved it. And it's definitely one of those experiences that I file away with. And I know you're gonna laugh at this, but bring it on. Where it's like a raucous teen comedy that the audience just had a great time watching.

[9:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Old school, going to the movie theater, hearing everybody laugh at those lines in Mean Girls for the first time. True inside out core memory. What's funny, though, is I don't think any of them anticipated that it was going to become iconic.

[9:44] Lizzy Tucker: No. I don't think anyone makes a movie and goes in thinking like, Oh, this is going to be a big hit. This is going to be iconic. This is peak. And I think that's why it is so popular because of how good the writing is, how amazing and nuanced the acting performances are, how all the characters genuinely feel like real people, even though they're supposed to technically be archetypes of people.

[10:06] Lizzy Tucker: I completely agree. Here's the other thing is that SNL, in terms of producing films, didn't have a spotless track record. They had huge hits like Blues Brothers and Wayne's World, those kinds of films. And then Superstar and Night at the Roxbury, those types of movies that were based on SNL characters. But here comes Mean Girls as technically an SNL film, but it is legit and might be maybe the most successful of all of the Lorne Michaels produced films, in my opinion.

[10:48] Lizzy Tucker: I would agree. I think it's really strong. Now, have you seen, I don't know if you've seen these videos that say Janice is actually the one responsible for the Burn Book? Have you seen all these?

[11:04] Lizzy Tucker: I haven't seen the ones about her being in charge of the Burn Book, but I will say—

[11:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like that she created it.

[11:08] Lizzy Tucker: I will say, I buy it low key, because her and Regina used to be best friends.

[11:14] Lizzy Tucker: Kiki, yeah, 100%.

[11:16] Lizzy Tucker: We don't know where the origin of the Burn Book started. Gretchen's like, oh yeah, we had this Burn Book. She never like, oh, us, we started this in high school. It could have been Janice and Regina conspiring, and then Janice got booted, so then Regina added her to the Burn Book.

[11:35] Lizzy Tucker: And I'm just saying, Janice was the one who came up with Too Gay to Function.

[11:40] Lizzy Tucker: Exactly.

[11:41] Lizzy Tucker: So no wonder Regina was like, ooh, that belongs in the Burn Book.

[12:03] Lizzy Tucker: Incredibly generous, in my opinion, because there's no Regina George. There are no characters or story or plot in *Queen Bees and Wannabes*. It is 100% like a psychological manual to help parents prepare their daughters for the inevitable social pressures of high school. Rosalind Weissman, active in social justice, founded this group called Cultures of Dignity, which is an organization that works with communities on combating hatred, bigotry, and fear. So this is like a legit woman not just trying to create a teen rom-com, right? Here's a quote from *Queen Bees and Wannabes* just to help us understand how clinical this book is. Quote, "Clicks are sophisticated, complex, and multi-layered, and every girl has a role within them.

However, positions in clicks aren't static. A girl can lose her position to another girl, and she can move up and down the social hierarchy. The reality is that few girls are stuck in one role, and they can often have moments of being something else or a combination." Unquote. This is the almost scientific study of, specifically for girls, social interaction, social organization during the teen high school years. That kind of study is what inspires Tina to kind of organize the film and the plot of *Mean Girls*, like you said, into these archetypes, but then fleshing out the characters in a really fun, funny, beautiful way. So, you know, this quote that I just read, does any of that connect to you in your childhood?

[13:55] Lizzy Tucker: I honestly feel like it does. Each person in the group has their own designated role. I feel like in most of the friend groups that I've been in, everyone did have a specific role, but I feel like in a different way. Like, it wasn't like the Plastics or, you know, stuff like that. But I feel like, oh, we had one friend that was like the funny one. He was the jokester, whatever. Then we had the other friend that was like the serious one that was like always doing their homework and like getting all their stuff in on time. I feel like I was, yeah, I feel like people will think differently. My friends will be like, "Lizzy, what are you talking about?" I don't know. I feel like I was like the nerdy one. Like, I would go home and play video games. I'd watch TV. Like, I'd do all the nerdy things. I also was a big musical theater nerd growing up in high school. So, I feel like—

[14:54] Lizzy Tucker: Nerd plus nerd equals nerd.

[14:56] Lizzy Tucker: Exactly. But all my other friends are musical theater nerds, too. So, it's just like, I don't know how that would like—

[15:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, then when did you discover musical theater? Were you pretty young or was it high school?

[15:08] Lizzy Tucker: So, I, okay, I'll fast forward. So, I did my first musical when I was nine years old. I technically did one when I was six, but I don't really remember it because it was like a school musical. So, I don't remember. But anyway, first real musical I ever did was, I was nine years old. I was at a summer camp at my local community theater. We did *Seussical Jr.* And I was—

[15:30] Lizzy Tucker: Amazing.

[15:32] Lizzy Tucker: Exactly. I was the sour kangaroo.

[15:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, girl.

[15:35] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. And I just remember I wanted to be Gertrude so bad. Like, I was so mad when I got the sour kangaroo. I was like, oh, like, this is so stupid. I'm not trying to be no kangaroo. Like, no. But you know what that means? That means they were like, this girl's got sass. Like that—

[15:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, yes.

[15:50] Lizzy Tucker: That's what that means. I just remember the theater director, I was just so upset. They were like, "Lizzy, why are you upset?" I was like, "I don't want to be the sour kangaroo. Like, I want to play Gertrude." They're like, "Lizzy, you're the only person here that could do this. So, like, just know, like, you got it, whatever." And I was like, okay. So, I did that. I had fun. I'd always known that I wanted to sing. I loved to sing. And I really wanted to be a pop star. That was like my big dream was to be like the next Miley, Selena, Demi. Because I love Disney Channel growing up. Those are like my three that I loved. But I knew I always wanted to sing. And my mom put me in that theater camp. And then fast forward, I do like the big main stage show at the local community theater. We did *Hairspray*.

[16:40] Lizzy Tucker: I was little Inez. Yeah, I was 12.

[16:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm seeing sass. Like, this is a through line.

[16:48] Lizzy Tucker: Suck it up, like Rochelle Rack would say.

[16:53] Lizzy Tucker: But I did *Hairspray*. And then that same summer, I was obsessed with *Dance Moms* when I was little. Like, that was my favorite show. I had 10 *Dance Moms* fan pages. Like, I was obsessed with that show. And I was like, I really want to start dancing. Like, dance is like something I really want to do. So, that same February, I was doing *Hairspray*. I also started my competitive dance journey.

[17:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which in Texas is no joke.

[17:18] Lizzy Tucker: No, like, actually no joke. And there were only like three studios in my hometown. But there was one that was like, you have to take your child here if you want like—

[17:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, if you actually wanted. Yeah, yeah.

[17:32] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah. And so my mom took me there. And I started, I was doing a musical and doing the dance at the same time. And then it got to a point where I was like, no, like, I want to be I want to be a professional dancer. Like, this is what I want to do. And, mind you, I started at 12. All the other girls that were with me started when they were like two, or like, out of the womb, they were dancing, you know. And so they've been there for like 15, 16 plus years. And I'm getting into this all new. And I'm just like, okay, so I'm working overtime at that studio trying to catch up with everybody. But then it got to a point where like, it was kind of like the Plastics like we had there were like this group of like, girls that were like there and they did not like me. And then I was kind of just like, okay, like, I kind of felt like the Janice in a way like, not really, but like—

[18:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, no, but you start to see how these structures are built everywhere.

[18:30] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah. Three girls that were like the main three. And then I'm coming into this all new. It's like Katie Janice like situation. And then I would even say, your position at the community theater, right in that whole structure would be then different than your position in the structure at the dance studios and how confusing it can be to go back and forth and be like, "Oh, I guess here I'm nothing and over there I am." So you know what I mean?

[19:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, yeah, a lot to navigate. Anyway, continue.

[19:07] Lizzy Tucker: No, you're fine. So anyway, I'm starting to feel left out. I'm just I'm just not feeling it like monster. I'm just really not feeling the dance anymore. Just because of like the environment that I was in. Dancing there wasn't making me happy anymore. And then fast forward my freshman year of high school. I'm an incoming freshman, and they have auditions for their musical. And it just so happens to be *High School Musical* that I was in. I audition I get Gabriella as a freshman as a freshman.

[19:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, X on your back, man.

[19:41] Lizzy Tucker: No, like actually. And so then I was the only freshman to get a lead. And so then I start high school and rehearsals. I'm also still in dance. And then it got to a point where I was asking if I could leave the musical rehearsal to like go to dance to get to what at least one of my classes on time. And then the dance studio would be like, "Hey, so you're late," or it just got to a point where I couldn't do both. So I had to choose. And then that's when I decided I was like, you know what, I'm gonna pursue theater because this is actually making me happy. Yeah, that's kind of where that started. And then I didn't theater all through high school. I went to Texas State for BFA musical theater, graduated, moved here. And then, yeah, and then you know, hi, Jerry Mitchell, let's do this thing. No, like, and that was crazy, too. Like, so, so grateful for all of it.

[20:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Congratulations. Well, I do find our journeys in high school to be so indicative of, I guess, our personalities, but also many of the cycles that we'll find ourselves in for the rest of our lives. And I think that that is why people like Rosalind Weissman, who wrote this book, spend and maybe even why we as artists spend so much time in high school, because my goodness, the amount of musicals that are about high school, maybe it's why we spend so much time there. Because there's always so much to unpack, to also share with future generations, so that hopefully they have it a little bit better, or at least, I wouldn't say easier, because it's never going to be easy. And in fact, the fact that it's hard makes it really important. But at the very least, keeping perspective in mind.

[21:32] Lizzy Tucker: So, and I would say that even looking at what *Mean Girls* was as a movie, versus, you know, 10 years, 10, 15 years later, when it becomes a stage musical, seeing the steps forward and the progress that had been made in school around bullying and the kind of conversations that are available. Like, I think we have made some pretty great progress. We also created social media, which made everything a gajillion times worse.

[22:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I was gonna say that, too. It's just like, you already have all of that back in the day. But then adding phones and social media to it, it just broadens that whole scheme of bullying and hate speech and everything. It's just, it's a lot.

[22:21] Lizzy Tucker: You're so right. It's so much easier to say things on a phone than it would be to say things in person. Keyboard warriors, dude. They're everywhere.

[22:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, 100%. So, the *Mean Girls* film comes out in 2004. Tina Fey in the film, Tina Fey writes the film, directed by Mark Waters. Now, are you ready for some like crazy small world stuff?

[22:40] Lizzy Tucker: Give it to me.

[22:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Directed by Mark Waters. Mark Waters has an older brother named Daniel Waters, who directed *Heathers*. Isn't that crazy? So, these two brothers are kind of responsible for two of like the most iconic, yeah, two cult classic teen films. And then both of those films get turned into musicals written partially by Nell Benjamin. Crazy small little world here with this work. By the time we hit like 2013, the musical is starting to come together. But still, musicals take forever. So, it's not until five years later that it premieres out of town, I think, Washington, DC. Like we mentioned, Jeff Richman wrote the music, aka Mr. Tina Fey. He, of course, has his own career and he wrote all of the music for *30 Rock* and for *Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt*. *Unbreakable*, such a great theme song.

He also was the music supervisor on SNL. He is a true improv guy, like a true improv music guy. I picture like when you go to an improv show and someone's going to like make up a song, he's the guy behind the piano who's like, all right, somebody call out a genre. We're about to make up a song right now.

[24:07] Lizzy Tucker: Which then leads me to kind of a question about the Mean Girls musical. How would you describe this score? If you were, if someone was to ask you like, what is the Mean Girls music like? How would you succinctly describe it? It's not easy.

[24:24] Lizzy Tucker: Oh, definitely not easy. That would be the first thing. Challenging. Okay. I think the music, it's not so much genre. I feel like genre overall is very pop, poppy. However, I think the music is catered to each character.

[24:48] Lizzy Tucker: Amen. Yes. Literally, Damien is like, this is the world as I see it. His song is very like, classic, like big Broadway musical theater number, where you get to Janice, who's very like, punk rock, like that type of vibe. Regina's like serving vocals down like singing. Katie's very like mixy, like up in like that very musical theater, like storytelling, like valid. Gretchen, I feel like is in the same place. Karen's just like, like very like pop and fun. My name is Karen.

[25:24] Lizzy Tucker: Exactly. We're totally on the same page here. You actually said it way more beautifully than I think I could have. The score is as eclectic as the characters themselves.

[25:35] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. You worded it better than I did. No, no, no, no. That's exactly what I'm saying. I think that that is directly tied to that improv background, right? That while I don't think I could say that Mean Girls has a sound in the same way that you're like, oh, that's a Sondheim show. That's a Jason Robert Brown show. It's so character based that you really take it in character by character.

[26:02] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. Which is different and cool and different. No, yeah. I think Mean Girls is so brilliant because the characters are so fleshed out in the movie already that it's even cooler to see like, this is what they're thinking in their brains when they're singing.

[26:22] Lizzy Tucker: And you even have the added benefit of having the same writer for the film be in the musical. Which one does that ever happen? Exactly. You know what I mean? So it's like, thank God for Tina Fey. Thank God Tina Fey was on this. All of that work that had been done by those characters and even I would probably guess discovered in the filming of the film because I love the...

[26:46] Lizzy Tucker: Have you ever read Bossy Pants, her book? Oh my gosh, I've read it twice. It's so great. But she talks about how she would be on the set of Mean Girls and Rachel McAdams would be in a scene doing Regina stuff and it was totally different than she had seen in her brain when she was writing it. And she would even be thinking, oh, this isn't going to read. She's too small. She's not going for it. And then she would see the dailies or she'd see the actual footage and she'd be like, oh, nope, this is perfect. And she knows exactly what she's doing. I should let the actor do the job. So I think it was also very collaborative for her to see these incredible performers bring life to them, which I cannot speak highly enough about Rachel McAdams.

[27:38] Lizzy Tucker: Oh, yes. That's queen. What she did with Regina George. One of my favorite measures for whether or not a character is iconic is if after taking them in, I can remember first and last name. Mean Girls is full of them.

[27:57] Lizzy Tucker: Full of them. All that being said, what Rachel McAdams brought to Regina George is so delicious because it's that whole acting thing of like, she doesn't know she's the villain. She just knows that she's in power and she loves it. And she should probably stay in power because why not? If it isn't her, it's going to be someone else.

[28:21] Lizzy Tucker: Exactly. And that feels incredibly relevant, if I'm going to be totally honest about people being in power, not necessarily because they should, but because they believe that they might as well be in power to make sure they're in power, you know, not to make the world better.

[28:40] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah. And that's also why I love that Katie, you know, being raised in Africa around animals and seeing kind of the primal nature of those animals is such an interesting vantage point into that power play.

[29:00] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah. In Africa, you don't judge a crocodile for being a crocodile. It just is. It's an apex predator. It is what it is. They're doing what they do. So then when you come to high school and you see, wait, are people choosing to act this way? Or is it just who they are? Or is it because within this ecosystem, that's the place that they found themselves? It's kind of complex.

[29:24] Lizzy Tucker: No, it's very complex. And it's just so cool to see every night too, Tori Mosaitis, who plays Katie in our version. Excuse me. Who plays Katie in our version of Mean Girls at the Playhouse. Her shift between like, Katie coming to school in Africa, and then her meeting the plastics, and then her eventually becoming a plastic and like adapting to this new ecosystem. Just her shift into that is just so beautiful to see and very distinct. And I feel like, I just love how that is shown.

[30:04] Lizzy Tucker: The code switching 100%. And you find different sides of your personality depending on who you're surrounding yourself with. And I feel like that's another thing that Mean Girls teaches you. There's so many different lessons. And I just, I love it. I find something new every single time.

[30:22] Lizzy Tucker: I bet. I bet. Okay, I want to go through the show just a little bit with our time left, because there are so many of these moments, and I want your opinions on them. Because this time, as I've gone through it, I really started thinking about things through Janice's POV, and I want to hear your thoughts.

[30:39] Lizzy Tucker: Okay, great. And speaking of that, the musical really is from the POV of Damian and Janice, like you two begin the show. It almost feels like morning announcements, right? Where they're like, Hey, everyone, welcome to North Shore High. What is the framework here? Do you guys know that you're putting on a show? Are you narrating this story for the audience? How does it work for you?

[31:05] Lizzy Tucker: That's a good question. I think in the version that we're doing, we are the narrators. I feel like we're kind of like leading the train a little bit in what's being told and heard by the audience.

[31:22] Lizzy Tucker: And when? Because boy, Damian can't keep that getting hit by a bus to himself. No. But I think also, it's kind of written for the fans of Mean Girls. But I feel like if you haven't seen the movie, or you're not familiar with it at all, I think you'll still have a good time and also not feel like, Oh, I'm missing some information. Oh, there's some like, I think you'll understand. I think you can still understand what's going on without having seen the movie or even reading the book.

[31:55] Lizzy Tucker: You know, I think that's a really great point and might be for me the difference between say Mean Girls and another very eclectic musical SpongeBob, where I I'm a little too old for SpongeBob. And I love SpongeBob. But when I went inside, I was like, So wait, who's this guy? And my husband was like, Oh, he's Plankton. Like he's he's supposed to be this. And I'm like, and is that a model? Because like the girl just posing like this? And he's like, No, that's a robot. And I was like, Okay, whoa, like, these are, these are things that I just didn't know going into the show. And so I was totally lost. But with Mean Girls, you're right. There's so much for the fans. And yeah, I don't think anybody would be lost. Yeah, going into a blind.

[32:42] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. And I can I can agree with you on the SpongeBob thing. I'm a huge SpongeBob fan. I actually love SpongeBob.

[32:48] Lizzy Tucker: And it's so good. And by the musical, so fun, too. It's so fun. But I would agree that that that show is definitely written for fans of SpongeBob. And if you've never seen SpongeBob, I don't think you're going to like, really understand unless you're really like, locked in on it, you know?

[33:05] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah, no, you need to read the program notes. But again, I love I love me some SpongeBob. And yeah, that Tony season was like, I can ask anyone that knew me back in high school, like I was locked in because it was literally SpongeBob, Mean Girls, Frozen and The Band's Visit. Like I was locked in.

[33:27] Lizzy Tucker: It was a great season. I was locked in like, and by the way, Mean Girls got nominated for so much like it really was, you know, I think a well-respected hit. But because of that Tony season and The Band's Visit really cleaning up everything, it walked away empty handed.

[33:46] Lizzy Tucker: I sure did. And I would be singing in my car with my two best friends and we'd be like, OK, I'm Regina, you can be Karen and you'll be Gretchen. And like we're like singing like down the road, meet the plastics like.

[33:58] Lizzy Tucker: Amazing. Crazy. That's so adorable. I love it. So Janice and her GBF, Damian kind of introduced us into this world of high school.

[34:08] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. And then the introduction of this new character, Katie, who Katie Heron, there's another first and last name who is moving from Africa with her parents who are scientists. She's coming in very math forward, but not knowing a lot about social politics in high school. And what an education, right?

[34:31] Lizzy Tucker: And of course, the only thing she has to really reference is kind of like the science and the nature that she was surrounded by in Africa. Now, we need to talk just a little bit about Katie and Erica. What's Erica's last name?

[34:46] Lizzy Tucker: Erica Henningsen. Yes. Because what a thankless role. Right. You work so hard and honestly, maybe don't get as much praise as you should when you play Katie.

[34:59] Lizzy Tucker: Oh, yeah. Right. I'm a huge fan of Erica. I think she's so talented. I didn't get to see Mean Girls whenever I was in New York before it closed. But I did. I trust I've seen every bootleg. Every, every performance they ever did, like I was locked in. But I did get to see her in Just In Time and she was amazing. Literally so good.

[35:23] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah. But I yeah, I feel like she's also just underrated period. Like, that girl is so talented. She's great in the Four Seasons.

[35:31] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. And also, Katie's, I don't think people understand how hard of a role Katie is. Like, those songs are—

[35:38] Lizzy Tucker: This is what I'm saying. If you make it look easy, then people don't appreciate it. But if you don't do it well, then you just look bad. So like, the best case scenario is people are going to take you for granted. And I genuinely think that she did everything so well.

[35:58] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah, you're right. Those songs are so difficult. Starting with It Roars and then It Never Lets Up. It Roars, Stupid With Love. Okay, I'm going to segue a little bit.

[36:11] Lizzy Tucker: We, the licensed version of Mean Girls, that like all the high schools and everyone does, is actually the UK version. So there are a lot of things that are very, very different from Broadway. So I, coming into this, I was so used to hearing the Broadway soundtrack and how everything sounded. And then they're like, OK, so we're going to start with I'm Blowing Up. I was like, what is that? I had no idea what that was because I had never heard the UK version before. I did not know. That's taking the place of Stop, right?

[36:41] Yes. And I think I heard that there was like a iteration of that in the DC version. And that's what like started it. But then Broadway, they like cut it out and they did Stop. And yeah, so like Fearless isn't in the show anymore. It just ends with Revenge Party.

[36:57] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah, which is a much better idea. All of Katie's stuff is different. So it roars a completely different song. Stupid Love is completely different. And then there's this other thing. I'm just giving my praise to Tori, our Katie, because she's just like, she's insane. Oh, Do This Thing is cut and they replaced it with like Matt Wheat's montage or something. And because everyone knows that's like iconic. They cut that and now it's like, and Tori sings that, mixes that every single night. And I'm like, girl, how are you a human? Like, are you real?

[37:39] That's so crazy. It's just so unreal. And like, so.

[37:43] That's amazing.

[37:44] Lizzy Tucker: Slay Erica, slay Tori. Like, I think both of them do Katie very, very incredibly and nuanced and perfect.

[37:52] That's beautiful. That's awesome. So I guess we should talk about all three plastics. So you have, of course, Regina, who's Queen Bee. You have Gretchen, who has the best new developments as far as story and character go in the musical.

[38:06] Yeah, she is second in command. You also hear how much pressure and anxiety is constantly running around her head in order for her to be OK with being second in command.

[38:20] Yeah.

[38:21] Lizzy Tucker: And then number three, Karen, who's just so simple and lovable. Do you think Karen's smarter than Sheila Tan?

[38:32] This is what I'm saying. Are they crocodiles or are they just like adapting to what they think will bring them the most power?

[38:41] No, yeah, I think yes and no. I think it depends on the topic that is being talked about.

[38:48] Great. That's a great point. I think Scarlett Diaz, who plays Karen in our K Playhouse, I think she does a brilliant job at playing the comedy and also finding moments where Karen can be smart, but also play up that she is dumb.

[39:06] Right, like she once put a D in the word orange.

[39:12] Yes. This is the brilliance of Tina Fey, is that she can be biting, but then put in something so kind of deflating that still makes it hilarious without being mean, like truly mean.

[39:26] Yes.

[39:27] Lizzy Tucker: There's nothing mean about putting a D in orange. That's just funny. It's just funny. And I think that Scarlett does a brilliant job at finding the moments where Karen is acknowledging that she's stupid. I think she's very self-aware and embraces it. She's not being like, oh yeah, I'm not the smartest person, I'm just living. I think she does a brilliant job at that.

[39:54] And it's going well for her.

[39:55] Oh yeah, it's great.

[39:57] Yeah.

[40:01] Lizzy Tucker: Okay, so those are our plastics. Then we have, almost in a hairspray sort of way, all of the adult characters are played by one person for all of the female adults, one person for all of the male adults, usually accompanied with some great wigs. Regina's mom is obviously a standout, always.

[40:19] Yes.

[40:20] Lizzy Tucker: I remember seeing the film and seeing Regina's mom, which was played by Amy Poehler, but it was a character that I had never seen before. A woman who's obsessed with her kids because she wants to be as young as they are, and yet that person has always existed. But for some reason, I had never seen it on film quite like that.

[40:39] Yeah.

[40:40] Lizzy Tucker: Just so smart, so funny. So good. Okay, so let's talk about the end of the first act.

[40:45] Okay.

[40:46] Lizzy Tucker: I remember when I first saw the show, I thought, oh, this show doesn't know how to end its first act. Because, and I hope that doesn't sound shady, but I kept on feeling like we'd get to the end of a number. I'm like, ooh, that's the end of the first act. And then it wasn't. And then we got to the Christmas performance, and then I thought that would be the end of the first act, and it wasn't. And then we got to Fearless, and I'm like, okay, I guess this is the end of the first act.

[41:10] Yeah.

[41:11] Lizzy Tucker: All that being said, that has all changed, which makes me think that maybe I was justified. I don't know. The amazing songs that I just breezed through, I mean, Revenge Party, what a bop.

[41:22] Mm-hmm.

[41:23] Lizzy Tucker: I love Revenge Party so much. Apex Predator, also, total bop in the first act.

[41:28] Yes.

[41:29] Lizzy Tucker: But the idea with Revenge Party is that Janice and Damien are getting Katie to pose as a plastic in order to declare revenge. And everybody has their reasons for this revenge. Katie wants revenge because Regina has stolen her crush, Aaron Samuels.

[41:47] Mm-hmm. Can you talk a little bit about why Janice wants revenge?

[41:51] Oh, well, yeah. I mean, Regina basically outed her to everybody.

[41:55] When they were very young.

[41:57] Yeah.

[41:58] Lizzy Tucker: And Janice thought Regina was her friend, and she came out to her. But then, I think, and this is why I low-key think Regina is a lesbian as well. Because-

[42:12] Oh, sure.

[42:14] Lizzy Tucker: Why would she out Janice for no reason? It's giving like, oh, Janice is able to be free. So, I have to maintain my status in the boom chain or whatever. So, Janice gotta go. You know?

[42:29] Yeah.

[42:31] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah. I mean, I think Janice's revenge is a little warranted, but it's also, I don't know.

[42:39] No, it's also that, I mean-

[42:41] It's like, why are we getting, it's like, also, why are we getting Katie involved? You know what I mean?

[42:45] That-

[42:46] Like, getting Katie and Damien, like, getting all these people involved.

[42:49] You know?

[42:50] Because that's the truth.

[42:51] Because that's the truth. I mean, they always say about, is it revenge? That it's like trying to kill someone else by drinking poison?

[42:57] Yeah.

[42:58] You know, drinking poison and then expecting the other person to die. But here, is that, like you said, she gets Katie involved to pose as like this new plastic.

[43:07] Yeah.

[43:08] Lizzy Tucker: And then Janice is completely devastated when she becomes a plastic. It's like, girl, what were you thinking was gonna happen? It's like, what were you thinking was gonna happen?

[43:16] But it's also like, I also see her side of it, though, too. Because she was like, oh, well, Katie's with me, so-

[43:22] She's strong enough, she can handle this.

[43:24] Lizzy Tucker: She's strong enough to handle it. Baby, you just met Katie, like, a month ago. Like, what are you talking about? Like, she's adapting. Like, that's what she's known to do, she's adapting to the ecosystem.

[43:35] It's bringing that feedback.

[43:36] Lizzy Tucker: It's so interesting that you say that. Because Katie learned so many things in Africa and came across so many, you know, interesting beasts and forces. But the one thing she didn't have to deal with was popularity.

[43:50] Mm-hmm.

[43:51] Lizzy Tucker: And what a beast of its own. And you think that you want it, and you think that you know what you do when you'd have it, but you don't.

[44:02] No.

[44:03] The truth is, you don't, and no matter how strong you are, you're about to get, I think, a big, hopefully, a big piece of humble pie.

[44:11] Yeah.

[44:12] Lizzy Tucker: And also adding boys into that equation, too.

[44:15] Oh, gosh.

[44:16] And hormones.

[44:17] Absolutely.

[44:18] Lizzy Tucker: I feel like Katie was more focused on trying to get Aaron, and trying to get Aaron to notice her, want her. And so she's like, I know that Aaron had a thing for Regina, so maybe if I turn into Regina, then he'll like me. And then he didn't like her.

[44:35] I think we all had a big sigh, because haven't we all done that?

[44:39] Yes.

[44:40] Lizzy Tucker: And again, going back to Tina Fey and how she's a genius, that's a real firsthand experience for a lot of girls. It's like, oh, let me turn into myself that I think that you like.

[44:54] Mm-hmm.

[44:55] And it's like, just be yourself. That's literally the whole thing. Just be yourself.

[45:01] So there's lots of fun little plot twists. How do they take away Regina's power?

[45:04] They give her these Calteen bars that cause her to gain weight, which then is such a funny change for the musical. When they perform their Christmas number at the talent show or whatever, the skirt falls off of Regina, which then goes all over Instagram.

[45:26] Lizzy Tucker: When I first saw that, the way that I howled, I LOL'd so hard. It was so freaking funny.

[45:32] Yes.

[45:33] Lizzy Tucker: But like you said, the first act now ends just with Revenge Party.

[45:36] Revenge Party, boom, intermission.

[45:38] Yeah.

[45:39] Lizzy Tucker: That's cool. But Revenge Party is now a 12-minute number.

[45:43] So we still have rocking around the pole. Everything is just all in that number.

[45:50] Got it. So then we come back to the second act. Katie is now on top.

[45:56] Is she with Aaron at this point?

[45:58] No.

[45:59] No, right? She's not with Aaron until the end.

[46:01] She's not with anybody.

[46:03] Until the very end.

[46:05] Lizzy Tucker: And even more so, not with Aaron, but also not with Janice or Damien either because there's been a big falling out due to Janice's art show, that whole sequence.

[46:17] So Katie is truly alone. There's even distance between her and her parents for the first time because there's lying and throwing parties and all sorts of things.

[46:28] So now let's talk Burn Book.

[46:30] Okay.

[46:31] Lizzy Tucker: The Burn Book is this book that Regina and the Plastics have where they write horrible things about everyone. Once Regina kind of discovers the plot that Katie had hatched in order to become Apex Predator number one, Regina very smartly writes something horrible about herself in the book and then spreads the pages all over the high school to ensure that the Plastics get in trouble for the Burn Book, but not Regina.

[47:03] Yeah.

[47:04] Lizzy Tucker: I think I said that right.

[47:06] Yes.

[47:07] Lizzy Tucker: So I think this is maybe the thing that I want to impart to any young people that might be listening. If you're playing Regina, doing anything in this show, and all you're thinking about is what you're going to do for your alternate notes in World Burn.

[47:23] Yeah.

[47:24] Lizzy Tucker: Then I think we've lost the plot. This show is full of such rich characters and rich storytelling, just like our listener requests said from Olivia. That we're not servicing those really great characters if all we're focusing on are how loud and high we're singing.

[47:45] I agree.

[47:46] Lizzy Tucker: I also think there are ways to add riffs and things and whatnot, while also motivating the storytelling. Caroline Seagrass who plays our Regina. Her voice, just like period, is unreal. She can sing anything.

[48:05] She can sing the phone book and get a standing ovation. She's just an incredible vocalist.

[48:44] Lizzy Tucker: If for no other reason than they share the same words, burn in Hamilton to world burn in Mean Girls, right? And think of the depths that these characters are going through and why they're making the decisions that they are. There's so much there to enjoy. And so, I really want to encourage our fellow musical theatre lovers and actors to not forget about that story and the character because it's in a world that becomes increasingly obsessed with slime tutorial clips of this person singing this note this way and this person singing the note this way. It's not doing us any favors in terms of the art form.

[49:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. I agree. And I think in this new age of musical theatre, I feel like we've forgotten that it's called musical theatre. Acting is still a part of it. And I feel like I'm even guilty of this. I feel like I'm so caught up in how I sound nowadays because it seems that's really all people care about. That's what people will write the comments about. That's what people are caring about. But I'm telling my friends and they're like, Lizzy, it doesn't matter how you sound because you're going to sound fine. It doesn't matter how you sound. You have good technique. You have good training. You're going to sound fine. If you're not acting, then what's the point? And I'm like, you know what? You're so right.

As long as I'm telling a story and the vocal choices that I'm making feel motivated and feel right for the character, it doesn't really matter how I sound. That's why I really love "Rather Be Me" and performing that song because I feel like Janice is like the closest to playing me on stage. The closest I wouldn't say like, it's like, oh, this is so me. But I just feel like I can be a version of myself that I wouldn't normally get to play. And also just like getting to sing the rock vocal stylings, just like all of the shows, like "Apex Predator," even "Revenge Party." I feel like that's where I feel the most comfortable singing. So I really like getting to use those different vocal textures in the show.

But "Rather Be Me," I just feel free. I feel because the whole song is about liberation and really embracing who you are and not caring what anyone else thinks about you. Getting to sing that every night.

[51:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I would say it's liberating for us, too. There is some wish fulfillment for us as an audience to see you empowered in that moment to give the finger. You know what I mean? It feels right for all of us. It feels true for all of us. And so as all of this drama happens and the whole school kind of has to go through this training about bullying, and Janice stands up and shares this truth about, you know, so your best friend screwed you over. It's cathartic. I think it's cathartic for everyone to see Janice do this.

[51:56] Lizzy Tucker: Yes. I feel like it's cathartic for me, too, because I feel like we've all been in a place where you have people who you thought were your friends. And then one day they just stop talking to you or they pretend like you don't exist. And it's kind of just like, what did I do to make you not want to be my friend anymore? But then once you get older and you get to a point in your life where so many other things are happening in the world, those things just don't matter anymore. It's like the people that I want in my life are going to be in my life. And if you don't want to be one of those people, that's fine. It doesn't feel like such a rejection. It's like a weight off your shoulders because it's like, I'd rather be me and be with myself than be with someone that doesn't want to be with me.

[52:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a smart lyric. Go Nell Benjamin. Go Nell Benjamin. And then I also think she's really been able to match a lot of Tina Fey's humor, which is not easy to do, right? Sometimes I'm like, oh, did Tina do these lyrics? Because it sounds like her sense of humor, but also defined that sentiment. I'd rather be me than be with you. Come on. I mean, it's true, though. I feel like more people should live by that. Life is too short to try to appease other people.

[53:27] Lizzy Tucker: So let's talk about the ending of this show, because it is very much like girl power, I see stars. But how do they keep it from feeling cheesy or schmaltzy or really cutesy?

[53:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think the fact that we're all at a school dance and putting it all out there about what happened, Katie owning up to her mistakes and taking accountability, I think makes it more real. I think that's the ingredient.

[53:56] Lizzy Tucker: And she talks about in "War is Always Better" about I used to see all these stars in Africa, but I see less of them now. I think obviously the stars are a metaphor for all people, but I genuinely think it works for Katie because she is kind of horny. But it is kind of a return to self, you know, like she was a little cheesy to begin with.

[54:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[54:20] Lizzy Tucker: And then that ingredient that you said, the accountability piece, I think is so important and maybe something that people often criticize "Dear Evan Hansen" for not having, right?

[54:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[54:30] Lizzy Tucker: But she's standing up in front of not only people in power, but her peers, after being chosen queen, spring fling, or whatever, and saying, this is plastic. We've called these girls the plastics, but that means it's easy to break and fragile. And you know what I mean? And let's talk about something real. I think it's nice.

[54:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. I think it's a cute little ending for the show. I also think it's important because if girls are going to love Mean Girls, I don't want them walking away thinking that they want to be mean girls.

[55:10] Lizzy Tucker: Right. And it's like, interesting watching the movie back, like, everyone's like, oh, Regina is the villain. Like, no, like, they're all the villain. Like, everyone, they're all complicit. Like every single girl in there is a mean girl. Like it's called Mean Girls, plural, not mean girl. Like they're all doing things that are inherently mean and malicious. Katie may not know what she's doing is malicious to Janice or Regina, but like, she's doing it.

[55:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But maybe that means that Regina doesn't know either.

[55:48] Lizzy Tucker: Exactly. But also I feel like Regina is very calculated and like how she like...

[55:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Look, I am from a family of sisters. I have three sisters and I love them all dearly. But you girls, calculated is the right word.

[56:04] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah.

[56:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's incredible. The kind of math that y'all are doing sometimes with your choices.

[56:09] Lizzy Tucker: No, like it's scary sometimes, but I don't know. But I will say I really appreciate this movie because it really highlights that aspect of like cattiness that can happen sometimes in a world, especially in high school. But they do it in such like a lighthearted and funny way that it's you kind of almost forget. Again, I could speak praises about this movie for the rest of my life.

[56:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, that's so cool. That's so cool. It's great. You know, I guessed it on a podcast years ago that posed the question, like "Legally Blonde," "Heathers," "Mean Girls," the three like Nell Benjamin sort of...

[56:48] Lizzy Tucker: The trifecta.

[56:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Teen. Yeah, trifecta. Which one will stand the test of time? And my answer was Mean Girls because of the movie, because I felt like the movie is going nowhere.

[57:03] Lizzy Tucker: Yeah.

[57:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think I am officially changing my answer to Legally Blonde because I think it's such a well-written show.

[57:10] Lizzy Tucker: I will say in terms of musical, I would say Legally Blonde. But out of the three movies, I would say Mean Girls.

[57:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[57:18] Lizzy Tucker: I have to be Team Jerry, I fear. But also, I would have just said that anyways, but...

[57:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, it's interesting. It's interesting that when I look back on my answer, it's because of the movie, you know, and kind of the truths and the subjects that it hits at. I think that they are forever young and are worthy to explore and to keep exploring. I mean, I feel like we've talked so long, but we could keep talking about it. It's really interesting.

[57:49] Lizzy Tucker: Lizzy, thank you so much for doing this with me today.

[57:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun. As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on A Musical Theatre Podcast, you can always email me at musicalpodcast at gmail.com. I'd love to see you at Patreon! Where for only a few dollars a month, you get to join in on future conversations about the shows that we're covering. You get to vote on the shows we're covering. You get bonus episodes. It's so much fun. And I continually see growth there, which is so great. The more people over there, the better the conversations have. So come and join us at patreon.com slash a musical podcast. We're also on social media, on Instagram, on TikTok. Please share our content because that way people can find the show and the episodes we create.

And if you're feeling generous, hop on over to our TeePublic store where you can find lots of fun designs and the money we receive from those orders goes to Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS. More than anything, thank you for being here. I love creating these episodes. Lizzy, thank you again for chatting with me.

[59:00] Lizzy Tucker: Oh, yes. Okay. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok at Lizzy Tucker with an R at the end. L-I-Z-Z-Y-T-U-C-K-E-R-R.

[59:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, I post with her frequently. Yeah, Tucker.

[59:22] Lizzy Tucker: Awesome. And then you are in Mean Girls until the end of August, right?

[59:26] Lizzy Tucker: Yes, August 29. Come see Mean Girls. Get your pink on.

[59:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love it. What a fun show to see live, by the way. Everybody comes dressed in pink. People understand the assignment and they show up.

[59:39] Lizzy Tucker: Yes, it's a lot of fun being out here on the Cape. And I'm very grateful that I get to be here. Thank you, Al Blackstone.

[59:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Everybody out there, thank you so much for listening. And remember, you're all stars. Bye.