This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, I just wanted you ladies to know that I have my equivalent of a mimosa, which is my two percent reduced fat chocolate milk box that I will be drinking. I don't know if you guys have any libations or beverages this evening.

[0:13] Cindy: A little bit of wine for me.

[0:18] Christine: I made a gin and tonic, but I did get into chocolate milk recently. Did you know it's amazing with coffee, by the way? Look, chocolate milk is about as strong as I go.

[0:29] Cindy: Wow. I like how you said you were getting into chocolate milk as if it was like a new discovery.

[0:35] Christine: That is true. Totally missed it when I was nine. However, in my twenties, boy, it's coming on strong. Well, I haven't had it in like 15 years.

[0:46] Cindy: You can get other flavors of milk thanks to Nesquik. You've got the banana milk. You've got strawberry milk. You've got some root beer milk, which, believe it or not, is actually quite delish.

[0:58] Christine: What? I have not heard of root beer milk.

[1:03] Cindy: Yeah, I've heard of strawberry milk. It's basically like drinking, you know, a root beer float.

[1:06] Christine: Wow. I'm going to have to look into this.

[1:10] Cindy: Oh, my God. Minds blown, right?

[1:13] Christine: Yes, it's very exciting.

[1:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're welcome. Learn something already. Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today we are talking about My Fair Lady with Christine and Cindy from the podcast Bottomless Broadway. Welcome, ladies.

[1:47] Cindy: Thank you!

[1:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, how would you describe your podcast for those who may not have heard?

[1:53] Christine: OK, basically, Christine does a lot of research in her childhood, knows everything about Broadway, and then we do this podcast where she's very informative and I make snarky remarks about costumes. That's it.

[2:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Christine, how are you such an expert?

[2:18] Christine: In college, I had this roommate who he was super into like physics and stuff to the point where he would read Wikipedia articles on it, like on a specific topic until he understood it and then like follow one of the links to another topic and then like rinse and repeat. And I was like, wow, what a nerd until I realized I started doing the same thing with musical theater. Like, I don't know. We all have our filter. Whenever I watch something like I always like reading recaps or reviews of it. And then normally with something like a revival, then you have the whole production history that you kind of have to like pay homage to. And so then I end up on the Wikipedia page for it to see like, oh, what were the critics like when it first came out? And like, how did it get to Broadway? How did it get to like where it is now? All of that. So then just, you know, it's kind of a rabbit hole that you go down if you're me.

[3:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Cindy, when did you learn this about your friend that she had such a close obsession with musical theater?

[3:18] Cindy: Honestly, probably when we both moved to New York. I was like, not a big childhood theater goer. I only got into it when I spent seven months in London and had zero friends. And I was like, what's a cool thing to do alone? So I basically watched like four movies a week and went to three Broadway shows or West End shows. And then I literally racked up like twenty-five shows in like two and a half months or something like that.

[3:48] Christine: Hot dang. West End is really cheap, though, so it's easy to do.

[3:53] Cindy: Because that government subsidizes those theater tickets.

[3:57] Christine: Yeah, I love it. I bought day of not like Rush, but just like normal day of Wicked tickets in the front row for thirty pounds. And that was like that's that was typical. Like I did that for so many shows.

[4:10] Cindy: So that's so great.

[4:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It was. What would you say as, you know, an American who spent a lot of time going to the West End, what would you say the biggest difference you've noticed between West End shows and New York or I guess even just American shows in general?

[4:27] Cindy: Oh, my gosh. Well, it's not really about like the show itself, but like the overall atmosphere. I think like because tickets are less expensive in London, people treat it as more of like an average Friday night instead of like kind of an event, which I don't treat it like an event because we see every single show that creates is Broadway. It's actually embarrassing because sometimes we'll go to like Popeye's and then hit up a theater.

[4:48] Christine: I saw your classy.

[4:57] Cindy: Exactly. And I saw a show with a co-worker and he was like, let's do that pre-theater dinner. Let's show up half an hour before the show starts, read our playbill. And I was like, we don't do that. We just fried chicken and go to a theater. Thank you. And then there's a lot of like open mics and piano bars in their massive theater district area. So it's really easy to just like go out of a show, like get out of a show and then hit a piano bar and start belting immediately because like everything in the area is very themed. And I know we have piano bars in Hell's Kitchen and stuff, but like in London, it's very easy to get like everyone singing.

[5:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm so grateful that you're doing this episode with me because number one, you offered to cover My Fair Lady. I didn't even have to convince you to do so. And number two, I would never want to cover this musical without the presence of females, cis or otherwise. So to have two makes it doubly exciting. So thank you.

[6:00] Cindy: Thank you.

[6:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And why on earth do you want to cover My Fair Lady?

[6:06] Christine: Well, we started our podcast just in time to miss that season. Because you guys cover the shows that you've seen like during the season. You're like a real-time source of Broadway theater.

[6:12] Cindy: Yeah, we try to be like season-long Tony predictors, basically.

[6:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, that's good. I like that brand.

[6:25] Cindy: Got a little bit thrown off our game this year, but I mean, so did the rest of Broadway. So I think we're holding out.

[6:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, you're in good company. Okay, so you guys started the podcast after you had seen the revival of My Fair Lady. Did you know the musical before you saw the revival?

[6:42] Christine: I'm gonna guess yes for Christine because she's a total Broadway nerd. Cindy, I'm gonna say yes, because you probably sang a couple songs at a pub in London.

[6:48] Cindy: Oh my god, that's exactly right.

[6:56] Christine: Wow, you know so well already.

[6:57] Cindy: It totally goes before that. But I definitely got drunk and sang I could have danced all night to a lot of applause at a piano bar in London.

[7:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But so the reason why I did that is because when I was a kid and I took some vocal lessons, this is one of the songs that my vocal teacher wanted me to sing.

[7:14] Cindy: That's an adventurous teacher.

[7:21] Christine: She's like, beginner. All right, here we go. Let's start with I could have danced all night.

[7:26] Cindy: No, she was intense. She had me sing. Oh my god, what's that? What's that Gershwin musical? That's super hot.

[7:32] Christine: Summertime. That's not the musical. That's a song, right?

[7:37] Cindy: Sure.

[7:38] Christine: Yeah, yeah. She also had me sing Summertime. She was intense. But wow. So I didn't know what My Fair Lady was about at all. And the only like Audrey Hepburn movie that I knew was Roman Holiday. So I assumed it was very similar. It's not similar at all. However, like I could have danced all night could totally be in Roman Holiday instead. And it's probably 100%. It's the only song in My Fair Lady that I think would ever fit in there. It was years later before I actually saw the movie. And I didn't really pay a lot of attention to it. So I was like, okay, cool, whatever. I think it's just one of those old movies I'm supposed to like, like Casablanca or All About Eve.

[8:18] Cindy: Whoa, hold on. Wait, I don't think I can let that go.

[8:24] Christine: Do you not like All About Eve?

[8:30] Cindy: No, I do. I do.

[8:31] Christine: Okay. Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry. Casablanca, though, because I saw it in black and white on a rooftop also in London, and I was cold. So yeah, so it honestly wasn't until the revival that I actually digested the plot and how crazy it is.

[8:47] Christine: And I saw the movie earlier on. My mom loves musicals and movie musicals. And I have this memory of like, I think we were on vacation because it was definitely in a hotel when we watched this musical.

[9:00] Cindy: That's a long movie to watch in a hotel room.

[9:05] Christine: I think we actually took like a day's intermission. Because you know, they have that like helpful intermission card.

[9:09] Cindy: They sure do.

[9:10] Christine: So I mean, we did the same with Gone with the Wind. We watched that across like three or four days.

[9:15] Cindy: Yeah, got a smart mom.

[9:19] Christine: And yeah, I liked it. I don't think it made a huge impression on me. And then, you know, later on, when I was thinking about it, when this revival rolled around, and I was like, you know, that's kind of a weird dynamic to have, because it's played as a romance to so many people. And like, so many people consider it a romance. But if you actually think about it, it's not a great one.

[9:44] Cindy: That's what's so interesting about this show. And I can't wait to talk about it is the identity crisis that it's gone through from its inception, like from the very first time it was performed, even as a play before it got turned into a musical. It's had this identity crisis that it's been fighting. For me, My Fair Lady was important for one and one reason only the scene at the Ascot races, because you got all of those black and white costumes. And then it ends with Audrey Hepburn yelling, Come on, Dove and move your blooming arse. Like that was like the reason for the movie to exist in my eyes.

[10:26] Christine: I mean, out of everything that seems like a pretty good scene to have as your favorite.

[10:29] Cindy: Thank you. It's a great scene in the movie.

[10:31] Christine: Isn't it? It's also like so still and stilted. Did you see the Lincoln Center one?

[10:37] Cindy: I did not.

[10:38] Christine: Okay, well, just sidebar. I'm pretty sure Ascot Gavotte is like, the main reason they want costume.

[10:43] Cindy: Was it just fantastic?

[10:44] Christine: Yeah, it was like, like a periwinkle lavender across the board.

[10:53] Cindy: By I'm remembering it as sunset colors, but I don't know if that's actually true.

[10:58] Christine: But sure, they were definitely silhouetted when they like first entered the scene, I think. And then they like moved forward and you could see their actual costumes.

[11:07] Cindy: I'm gonna have to look up pictures now. That sounds gorgeous. When was that? 2018?

[11:12] Christine: Yeah. Yep.

[11:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So 2018 was certainly not the beginning of the Me Too movement. But it was when the hashtag really started exploding when all of the Weinstein problem started surfacing. And it really seemed to be this turning point in both, well, I guess in all of media. And then right at that moment, Broadway announced that it was going to be presenting revivals of Carousel and My Fair Lady and I went what? Because it just seemed a little tone deaf. There are many people who feel like the My Fair Lady revival was worthy of the Me Too movement of this new outlook in terms of how women are portrayed in media. Did you feel like Carousel was?

[11:58] Cindy: Carousel was a little it was my first experience with Carousel. I had no clue what the story was at intermission. Me and my friend were like basically placing bets on who was gonna die and I got it wrong.

[12:10] Christine: Somebody's gotta go. Dying.

[12:17] Cindy: But I got it wrong. I thought about it a lot because I love the music for Carousel. It's stunning. Absolutely. And I don't know if Carousel can be fixed, like quote unquote fixed, because unless you just actually massively change the lines and change who the characters are, because the famous line is like, oh, he slapped me, but it felt like a kiss. Right. So it seems like they're forgiving domestic abuse. At the end of the day, your ingenue is a battered woman. And we're given a sympathetic view.

[12:51] Cindy: Yeah, and they cut some songs which, like, listening to them later I don't even know if those cut songs actually helped in the whole feminist retelling, supposedly, of this story. And I didn't see it, even though I had every opportunity to and I kind of regret it because Christine likes it. But after Carole King and Waitress I didn't feel like seeing another Jessie Mueller musical where she's in an abusive relationship.

[13:23] Christine: Fair enough. So I skipped it. I'm a big Rodgers and Hammerstein fan so I do see the importance of Carousel but I also see the importance of knowing when and when not to produce it and I just wasn't sure that then was the right time.

[13:42] Cindy: Yeah, and also with producing it with a Black man playing your lead who is abusive, I felt like that was a little tone-deaf, maybe?

[13:48] Christine: Sure. The optics of it just also seemed a little weird to me. I agree with you. So then in terms of My Fair Lady, if I had to tell you what My Fair Lady was about, I would have said it's the story of a poor Cockney girl who becomes the basis of a bet of an upper-class linguist to try and fix her, to make her appear more upper-class by changing the way she speaks.

[14:16] Cindy: They're polar opposites and then by the end they fall in love. Like truly, that's how I would have explained the show. When the original play which My Fair Lady is based on, which is called Pygmalion, it was written by George Bernard Shaw, when it was first written he actually had to go back and fix the play after it had opened because he found the actors who were playing Henry Higgins and Eliza Doolittle kept inching their way toward some sort of romance at the end and that isn't what he wanted.

[14:49] Christine: So he purposely went back and wrote things and fixed the actors and had to keep telling them, no you're not falling in love, this is not what this story is. And Shaw's sequel slash epilogue, whatever, is actually pretty interesting to read. He kind of explains the thinking behind each of them and how men who are very accomplished want women who are below their stature so they can continue feeling accomplished and Eliza would have been too much a threat to Higgins and he explains the whole psychology behind it.

[15:22] Cindy: Wow. So from the get-go, from the ground up, this story has been battling the chemistry of these two characters, trying to figure out are they a nemesis? Is it a spark that's supposed to lead to a romance? Do you guys know what Pygmalion means? I looked this up, I find it so fascinating.

[15:45] Christine: Yes, so did I.

[15:49] Cindy: Fantastic. Do you want to share with the listeners?

[15:53] Christine: Oh man, are we going back to like Greek mythology?

[15:56] Cindy: Yes, exactly.

[15:57] Christine: Okay, so there's this like poet who doesn't think the perfect woman exists.

[16:03] Cindy: Right, he kind of sees no purpose in women, really.

[16:07] Christine: He makes a sculpture that he thinks is like the perfect girl and then he like prays to Athena or someone to bring her to life. And then she does.

[16:18] Cindy: Right, and that sculptor, that poet, his name was Pygmalion. And so George Bernard Shaw, the show is not about that Greek myth, and yet the name Pygmalion is certainly reflective of what's going on in this story. And it actually helped me to kind of figure out what his intention was. You've got a lead character who doesn't really understand the importance of women or what makes them beautiful, unless he is in charge of every single detail.

[16:51] Christine: Shaw was a big feminist at the time. So I think that's why he felt so strongly about the two of them not being together, which I have so many thoughts about. But then I think, was it like, I don't know if either of you know this probably somewhere, like the producer or the director or someone of the Pygmalion film that like Shaw greenlighted was like, I also want to make this into a musical.

[17:18] Cindy: Yeah, yeah. So the producer of the film decided that he wanted to make a musical out of it. He first approaches Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein. They give it a go, and it doesn't go well. They're like, this show can't be musicalized. We're not doing it. And then after they pass, Lerner and Lowe pick it up.

[17:34] Christine: Now, this is our first Lerner and Lowe show that we're talking about here on the podcast. So let's go through these composers really fast. Alan J. Lerner, who wrote the book and the lyrics based on this play by George Bernard Shaw, is a famous writer. He's kind of a collegiate guy like Cole Porter and even Richard Rodgers, very Ivy League American. And then he has a writing partner by the name of Frederick Lowe, who was born in Germany. He's much more of a lowly immigrant to America.

[18:13] Cindy: And these two, as lyricist and composer respectively, create a really solid partnership in musical theater, having their first big hit with Brigadoon. Then they write Paint Your Wagon. I think probably their biggest hit easily came in the 1950s with My Fair Lady. So they only were able to do this because Rodgers and Hammerstein passed on it first. But once they did gobble it up and turn it into something, it becomes the biggest hit of the 1950s. I believe it ran 2,700 performances. Crazy, crazy long.

[18:46] Christine: Yeah, it was almost seven years, which even today is like a fairly respectable run. So back then, it was insane.

[18:59] Cindy: To say the least, right? Now, also in that year, here were the other shows that got nominated for Best Musical that year. Are you ready?

[19:06] Christine: Yep.

[19:11] Cindy: We got Bells Are Ringing, Adorable. I think that's so cute. Do you know Bells Are Ringing?

[19:16] Christine: I know one song.

[19:16] Cindy: Okay, which one do you know?

[19:16] Christine: Party's Over?

[19:18] Cindy: Perfect Relationship. Oh, cute. It's a great score. It's Julie Stein, Gypsy, Funny Girl. Can't write a bad score. It's great. Then you got Candide, Leonard Bernstein, of course, My Fair Lady, and then The Most Happy Fella. So that is a pretty amazing season of musicals in 1957. You got Julie Stein, Leonard Bernstein, Lerner and Lowe, and Frank Lesser all in one season. That's pretty fantastic.

[19:42] Christine: My Fair Lady wins pretty much everything except for Best Actress.

[19:51] Cindy: Now, the leads in My Fair Lady on Broadway originally were Rex Harrison and Kwan Julie Andrews. We on the podcast referred to her as a Kwan because she's not actually a queen. She's a Kwan. Anyway, that being said, Julie Andrews did not win a Tony Award for My Fair Lady, which is crazy. I think we think of Eliza Doolittle as being this iconic role in musical theater, and for sure it is. And yet, it has never won an actress a Tony Award.

[20:25] Christine: You know that the Tony is the only thing that Julie Andrews is missing from an EGOT? Like, of all things.

[20:30] Cindy: Of all things.

[20:32] Christine: Not expect that. It probably was going to be Victor Victoria.

[20:36] Cindy: Turned it down. Now, I know on your podcast, you do this thing called the Five Word Review, which is you sum up your review of the show in five words. And so I was trying to think about what my five word review would be for My Fair Lady. And I think it is, Eliza never won a Tony. Like, that is kind of how I feel about the show. It is both iconic. And yet, somehow at the end of the day, Eliza gets overlooked. Who she is in the beginning and who she is at the end is kind of the same. She just talks better by the end of the show.

[21:15] Christine: She doesn't have that classic ingenue arc. She doesn't fall in love. I mean, I guess Higgins saves her from the streets, but then kind of makes her life worse. So it is not your typical leading female role, especially of the time.

[21:34] Cindy: I have read enough musical theater textbooks to know that there are many scholars out there who believe that My Fair Lady is a perfect musical, simply in terms of its construction and its character development, etc. And yet, I am not sure that you can call this show a perfect musical if you have to work so hard to completely redefine it in 2020, you know?

[21:57] Christine: I guess like minor spoiler alert for the revival version, if you are willing to hear that.

[22:02] Cindy: No worries. Yeah, please.

[22:04] Christine: So at the end, it's really interesting how they do the ending. And also, I think part of it helped that, I mean, Eliza is supposed to be 20 and Higgins is supposed to be like 40 or something, but they did cast kind of equal ages for both actors. So it did let you see them more on equal standing. But at the end, when Eliza comes back, he says his line, where are my slippers?

[22:26] Cindy: Yeah, go get my slippers.

[22:29] Christine: And she looks at him, and I think she might pat him on the cheek a bit or something, and then she exits through the front of the stage. So she goes downstage, like breaking the fourth wall, and then walks out through the aisle in the audience. And that's the end of the show.

[22:44] Cindy: Interesting.

[22:45] Christine: And he like kind of smiles at her, I think, as she's doing this. And so I saw that as either it all happened in his mind, like he's imagining her coming back and then realizing that she doesn't need him and that, you know, she's become independent. Or if it does, like, kind of actually happen. It's also him just sort of being proud of what he's created.

[23:13] Cindy: I mean, yeah. So I guess like, when we were talking, Christine felt like his happy ending is that he succeeded in, like, quote unquote, creating Eliza Doolittle.

[23:23] Christine: Yeah, I totally buy that.

[23:24] Cindy: And honestly, like, My Fair Lady slash chameleon is so common in rom-coms, like a ton of crappy teenage movies, like, She's All That, John Tucker Must Die are about-

[23:37] Christine: Oh my gosh, you're speaking, you're speaking my language, Cindy.

[23:42] Cindy: It's about like the guy or at least people shaping this perfect girl for him. And like the happy ending is supposed to be them getting together. And like, if she doesn't, then it breaks his heart. So I feel like he was upset that she left.

[24:02] Christine: Yeah, it's so ambiguous. Like, if you're gonna go ambiguous with this ending, then you have to be okay with what's currently happening in this episode, which is three different perspectives and kind of feelings about what it could be. And I'm just not entirely sure that a musical written in 1957 that has been interpreted one way for so long can all of a sudden make an about face and become this really ambiguous musical. I don't know.

[24:31] Cindy: I don't know. I'm kind of lost for words here.

[24:34] Christine: I mean, that's what I personally like about revivals is like, if you get the right director, they can show a completely different side to things. It's actually why I liked the most recent West Side Story as well, which I know had very mixed reviews. And this was so subtle, like, Oklahoma, the recent Oklahoma revival, like brags about how it doesn't change a word, like, you know, everything's there. But all of a sudden, you're exposing the dark grittiness.

[25:01] Cindy: But I feel like this My Fair Lady, it doesn't quite get as much credit for doing essentially the same thing that Oklahoma does, where it reveals like maybe different layers without necessarily changing a word of the actual show. Though also to like, bring it back to your comment about how, you know, a lot of people have called this a perfect musical, which I've heard also many times. And like, my first point about that is I've actually also heard a lot of people who feel like it's inferior to the play, which I can definitely see because it does, you know, romanticize it. And so it's almost peculiar how, how many people find it like a perfect.

[25:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Welcome back to A Musical Theatre Podcast! Today, we’re diving into the classic musical, My Fair Lady, and exploring its cultural and emotional impact.

[26:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: We’re thrilled to have Cindy and Christine from the Bottomless Broadway podcast with us today.

[26:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: So, let’s start with the iconic characters. What do you think makes Eliza Doolittle such a memorable character in musical theatre history?

[27:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: And how do you feel about the transformation she undergoes throughout the show?

[27:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: It’s interesting to think about how her journey reflects societal expectations of women during the time the musical was written.

[28:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Cindy, Christine, do you think the themes of My Fair Lady still resonate today?

[28:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Or do you feel that some aspects of the story might be outdated?

[28:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Let’s talk about the music! The score is legendary. What are some of your favorite songs from the show?

[29:03] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: And how do you think the music enhances the storytelling?

[29:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: I know there’s a lot of discussion around the romantic comedy elements in My Fair Lady. How do you think they play into the overall narrative?

[29:23] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Do you think the romance between Eliza and Higgins is portrayed in a way that feels authentic?

[29:33] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Or does it come off as problematic in today’s context?

[29:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: It’s fascinating to see how perspectives on gender politics have evolved since the show first premiered.

[29:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: What do you think about the character of Professor Higgins? Is he a hero or a villain in this story?

[30:03] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: And how does his relationship with Eliza challenge traditional gender roles?

[30:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: I’d love to hear your thoughts on the ending of the musical. Do you think it provides a satisfying conclusion to Eliza’s journey?

[30:23] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Or does it leave us with more questions than answers?

[30:33] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: There’s so much to unpack with My Fair Lady, and I’m excited to continue this conversation.

[30:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Let’s take a moment to reflect on the impact this musical has had on audiences over the years.

[30:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: It’s truly a testament to the power of storytelling in musical theatre.

[31:03] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Thank you, Cindy and Christine, for sharing your insights with us today.

[31:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: And for our listeners, be sure to check out the Bottomless Broadway podcast for more great discussions on musicals.

[31:23] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Don’t forget to follow us on social media for more content and updates!

[31:33] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: We appreciate you being part of our podcasting community.

[31:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Until next time, keep celebrating the magic of musical theatre!

[31:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Thank you for listening!

[32:03] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: We’ll see you next week for another exciting episode.

[32:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Bye for now!

[32:23] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: And remember, there’s always more to explore in the world of musicals.

[32:33] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Take care!

[32:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Until next time!

[32:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Bye!

[33:03] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Thank you for joining us!

[33:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: We can’t wait to share more with you soon.

[33:23] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Stay tuned!

[33:33] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: And keep the love for musical theatre alive!

[33:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: See you next week!

[33:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Bye!

[34:03] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Thank you for being part of our community!

[34:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: We appreciate your support!

[34:23] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Until next time!

[34:33] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Bye for now!

[34:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Thank you for listening!

[34:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: We’ll see you next week!

[35:03] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Bye!

[35:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Thank you for joining us!

[35:23] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: We can’t wait to share more with you soon.

[35:33] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Stay tuned!

[35:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: And keep the love for musical theatre alive!

[35:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: See you next week!

[36:03] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Bye!

[36:13] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Thank you for being part of our community!

[36:23] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: We appreciate your support!

[36:33] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Until next time!

[36:43] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Bye for now!

[36:53] My Fair Lady with Bottomless Broadway Podcast: Thank you for listening!

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[45:05] Cindy: How is it socially acceptable that three full-grown human beings are dancing and imitating bullfighting at 3 AM because one person pronounced a word correctly?

[45:18] Christine: And finally, have either of you guys heard the rock cover of this in Glee?

[45:23] Cindy: Stop. Now. Get out of here. Are you serious?

[45:31] Christine: Yes! So the boys, they're studying for geography, and then one guy is like, think about it, where does the rain mainly fall in Spain?

[45:40] Cindy: And one guy's like, the mountains? And he's like, no, no, no, listen to me. Where does the rain mainly fall in Spain?

[45:45] Christine: And then Punk is like, the plains! And then they freak out and all get on their guitars and start jamming.

[45:52] Cindy: Oh my gosh, that's hilarious and horrifying. And hold on, I need to finish my chocolate milk.

[46:01] Christine: But yeah, about this song, about I Could Have Danced All Night, I was thinking that it could be in the book, The Secret Life of American Musical kind of talks about this where it's like, she gets it right after the first time he's nice to her.

[46:16] Cindy: And up until then, he's been like very abusive to the point of like discomfort almost.

[46:23] Christine: And he's finally nice to her, he gives this like really pretty little speech about how great the English language is. So I see that as like, he's finally maybe proud of her.

[46:34] Cindy: And he has been, you know, belittled, she's been yelled at, she's been like, shoving marbles in her mouth and all this stuff.

[46:42] Christine: And finally, like, he's actually treating her nicely and dancing with her, which is like an extra step. And she's like, I just want this to be my life.

[46:52] Cindy: And like, I want to continue dancing and having this. And it kind of like gets called back to in the end when she's like, we were pleasant together.

[47:00] Christine: It's like, well, up to this point, they obviously weren't, but now they kind of are.

[47:05] Cindy: But like that validation from someone you respect, because obviously, she respects him. Otherwise, she wouldn't have showed up to his place.

[47:13] Christine: Yeah.

[47:14] Cindy: For the lessons to begin with. It's also really interesting, because I always think that My White Night is the end of Act One in Music Man.

[47:22] Christine: And I always think I Could Have Danced All Night is the end of Act One of My Fair Lady. And neither of them are.

[47:27] Cindy: I mean, it's like Yorktown also in Hamilton. You just assume that's the end of Act One, and then you get to nonstop. You're like, oh, this is Act One.

[47:37] Christine: So now because she's said a couple words correctly, she's ready to go out on the town.

[47:42] Cindy: And they dress her up and like we said, they go to the amazing Ascot race course and have this wonderful scene in which they're trying to see if she can pull off what this whole thing is, which is can she exist among the upper class?

[48:01] Christine: I just want to say also that I love how the way that Ascot gavotte is written. It's like this very sort of staccato.

[48:10] Cindy: Everyone do that.

[48:12] Christine: I love it.

[48:13] Cindy: They pronounce it like here. That's also great, but it's kind of the same exact style that's used in Evita to represent the upper class.

[48:22] Christine: Oh, you're so right.

[48:24] Cindy: There's this one conception of the upper class in musical theatre writers.

[48:28] Christine: And it is staccato. Oh, that's my kind of humor. Maybe six other people will think it's funny and I'm so happy about it.

[48:36] Cindy: What's really cool about Eliza, though, is that while her accent is okay at this point, she's still her. Like we said, she still has this beautiful heart and is so loving that everyone is immediately smitten by her.

[48:51] Christine: No one more so than Freddie Einsford Hill, also known as the boring boy toy.

[48:59] Cindy: I was wondering where you were going to go with that.

[49:02] Christine: She accidentally at the end of it says, come on, Dover movie, bloom and arse.

[49:07] Cindy: But at that point, it just makes him love her more.

[49:11] Christine: And so that evening he shows up to declare his love and he sings on the street where you live.

[49:17] Cindy: Now, this is the first of a couple of times that he sings on the street where you live, which is one of the great Broadway standards of all time.

[49:26] Christine: But I kind of want to see the production of My Fair Lady where every time he sings it, he's like a little bit more drunk because he's like so upset about her not being with him.

[49:40] Cindy: So the last time is just like, I have often.

[49:46] Christine: And also because he's seeing and hearing things.

[49:49] Cindy: So make a lot of sense.

[49:50] Christine: If you've never moved under my feet before, but maybe it does now because I can't stay upright.

[49:57] Cindy: Because I am sloshed.

[49:59] Christine: Like, are those trees purple?

[50:00] Cindy: Are there birds everywhere?

[50:01] Christine: It's because you're drunk.

[50:04] Cindy: I buy into this now.

[50:08] Christine: That's fantastic.

[50:10] Cindy: And I can't remember. Does someone send him away?

[50:14] Christine: Mrs. Pierce enters the door and she's basically like, what do you want?

[50:17] Cindy: And he's like, oh, is Miss Doolittle here?

[50:20] Christine: And she's like, I'll go see.

[50:21] Cindy: And he's like, don't worry. Take your time. I just want to drink in the street, which is ridiculous.

[50:28] Christine: And then she comes back and she's like, she doesn't want to see anyone.

[50:32] Cindy: And he's like, that's OK. I'll just stay here like a creeper.

[50:36] Christine: And it's really funny in the second act when Eliza comes out and he's just still there singing.

[50:43] Cindy: Has he been there for two days?

[50:47] Christine: He's just never left.

[50:49] Cindy: Still drinking.

[50:50] Christine: Has he showered?

[50:53] Cindy: Great way to meet your crush.

[50:56] Christine: It's a perfect musical, ladies.

[50:58] Cindy: I don't know what you're talking about.

[51:00] Christine: OK, so then we leave Freddy and Eliza is she's a skyrocketed man.

[51:06] Cindy: She's just, you know, racing toward that finish line of really becoming a true lady.

[51:13] Christine: My fair lady, in fact.

[51:15] Cindy: And so now she's getting ready for the embassy ball.

[51:18] Christine: Please tell me what did you see? Lauren Ambrose or did you see Lara Benanti?

[51:22] Cindy: I actually saw both because I went twice at a girl.

[51:27] Christine: I saw Benanti. Okay and what did her dress look like? Oh my god. I could not care because her necklace was way better. Oh fascinating. It was like a pretty woman moment necklace that the pretty woman that the it was a pretty woman moment musical. Oh my god. It was a pretty woman moment necklace that the pretty woman musical didn't have. There we go. I'm there. They didn't do the necklace moment in the pretty woman musical? I'm not sure but did but it was like not as grand of a necklace. Yeah I don't think her embassy waltz dress was as pretty as her ascot dress but her necklace was first of all giant. It's very much like the one in the movie where it like covers her whole neck but I think it goes like even further down onto her chest and it was extremely shiny.

Like blinding the people in the Lincoln Center. Yeah it was wonderful. I was so impressed by that. Now speaking of Audrey Hepburn in the film and that iconic look this would probably be a good moment to talk about how Julie Andrews you know originated the role of Eliza Doolittle on Broadway and then Jack Warner financed the film version himself passed on Julie Andrews because he felt that she wasn't a big enough star and instead went to Audrey Hepburn. Now of course the great poetic justice in all of that is that at the Academy Awards that year Julie Andrews ended up winning best actress because she starred in Mary Poppins. So after all is said and done she gets up to accept her Oscar for Mary Poppins and thanks Jack Warner for passing on her for My Fair Lady and that's why she is a boss. It must hurt even more that it came from Disney Warner Brothers.

[53:31] Cindy: Right and like so true. Disney waited like she was pregnant when they first gave her the offer and she's like oh sorry I can't do this and Disney like put it on hold to wait for Julie Andrews because they were like she's it. She is gonna be a film star like who are you Jack Warner? Seriously practically perfect in every way. I heard that Audrey Hepburn threw a fit when she found out she was gonna be dubbed.

[53:54] Christine: Oh that's true that's the other thing is that Audrey Hepburn was cast I guess with the knowledge that she was going to be singing the role and then wasn't told until later that she would be dubbed. Yeah and I think she sings five lines in the movie and if you listen very closely you can tell. She's not that bad I think she's just not a soprano.

[54:15] Cindy: No no I mean she sings Moon River and Breakfast at Tiffany's like she she can carry a tune but she's dubbed you know for all the soprano stuff by Marnie Nixon who was the great Hollywood dubber. Did she have a weird face or something?

[54:33] Christine: She's not unfortunate looking at all she's not. That's what I thought but she's just kind of got pigeonholed as this Kathy Seldon in in Hollywood and was the voice of everybody. Okay so they go to the embassy ball and we think that like the gig is up because there's this Hungarian phonetician who I guess that's a job and his name's Zoltan Karpathy. These names am I saying this correctly? I don't even remember. So he seems like very suspicious of her because he doesn't know who she is and he wants to figure out where she's from and Higgins is like yeah go on go dance with her and so that's how the first act ends and we leave intermission thinking the gig's up this guy has found out that she's a fake. Well in the movie intermissions before the ball like you see her in her ball gown in Higgins's house.

[55:25] Christine: Oh right right right that's true. That's also how they do it in the revival because oh really and I heard like people online were like wow she has to sit in that ball gown all through intermission. That necklace. But they do this thing where they because the orchestra has their orchestra pit the whole time has been there you know no one really pays much attention to them unfortunately because they're the orchestra but then the curtain opens now the orchestra is on stage so you have like a quote-unquote live orchestra for the ball so you can.

[56:01] Cindy: That's sweet that's a great choice. Yeah and it's also funny because if you're close enough if you're sitting close enough to be able to look into the pit they replace the like director with a tv. For a cut off or two.

[56:17] Christine: Yeah but I feel like the intermission placement is interesting as well because like in the movie for example you see Karpathy dancing with Eliza and then you see all these people whispering down the line as Eliza's dancing with the prince and then the whispering gets to Henry Higgins and he laughs and so it's very obvious that they're not in trouble she's still dancing with the prince and so like I guess it depends how you want to play that in the show and what tone you want to end on but I think it's also interesting because up until now the problem of the the show has been like can we teach Eliza to speak correctly so that she can pass for a duchess or a princess or you know but then now it's like well it's act two and we've solved a problem like the problem's done like what are we gonna do now and and you did it if you just listen to you did it which we haven't actually covered yet like you haven't mentioned it yet if you just listen to it it sounds very celebratory very triumphant but Eliza doesn't have a part in it and it's also interesting just watching what the director does with Eliza during this scene because now it's like okay the story has shifted and it's no longer about how she speaks or learning how to speak anymore I love the idea of starting act two and it's almost like a new show where like you said she has completed this task you know they've all quote-unquote gotten what they've wanted from act one in almost an into the woods type of way and now what.

[57:46] Cindy: Right and the fact is is that Eliza isn't really given any credit for what happened at the ball that it's all about Higgins it's about what a genius they were enabled to fool everyone and that really takes its toll on on our leading lady she's still her so she doesn't want to feel like she's fooled anyone is what I'm getting at.

[58:14] Christine: I didn't really think of it that way I thought she just wanted acknowledgement for the work that she had put in um for sure I didn't really think about it in a way of that they're fooling people and that that would be something she objected to hmm I mean but I I just putting myself in that place I feel like there would be this sense of boy I really I really showed them that I'm uh I'm better than I actually am and then there would be a sadness to that.

[58:50] Cindy: Hmm that's interesting because um George Bernard Shaw said that as part of his play he wanted to prove that like class could be taught and no one is inherently better better than anyone else yeah so coming from that perspective I feel like I'd be so proud of myself I would be like someone thought I was a princess hell yeah that's cute and I I get that too I told I I see that I've been to like plenty of events in LA where I've come away feeling down on myself maybe because I how do I want to say this I don't even know if I want to say this um where I felt gross for like feeling the need to play the game mm-hmm um and it felt disingenuous or I came away feeling like I'll never fit in because I'm only just pretending like it's either way it's a complex feeling but it's still her identity that they're playing with and act two is when we get into the nitty-gritty about what does that mean she packs up and leaves the house and like we said she finds good old Freddie who's still out on the street and he says that he loves her she says shut up and show me and this is actually in my opinion the best song in the show.

[1:00:24] Christine: Why is that because it's so active she has learned everything and it all just comes pouring out of her where it's like enough talk enough of all of this pretense if this is what you want then do something about it and in many ways she's the perfect one to be saying that because she went out and did something about what she wanted.

[1:00:41] Cindy: I can also see that with um your view of how she feels after the ball where she feels like she doesn't really want to be putting on this face and like saying these pretty words she's like I'm tired of words like let's just yeah show our emotions and show our feelings like do you actually feel the things you feel or are you just putting on a front like everyone else at the ball.

[1:01:03] Christine: Yeah is this just this like stupid facade where you say the right words and in the right way with the right tone and the right vowels and then everything's beautiful.

[1:01:14] Cindy: Yeah I also think it's such an unexpected number coming from her and just like from any female lead really in at this time really it was just such a like outpouring of emotion I guess and it's not like she has um just you wait earlier which is like everything builds up to that Higgins has always treated her terribly so of course she would be like I imagine you dying but like she's just had this super emotional scene um it's like a very aggressive number almost.

[1:01:47] Christine: Yeah and I think this comes through more in Shaw's play where how the farther up you go in terms of class standing the more limited you are and when she's asking Henry Higgins in the scene before like oh what's to become of me what can I do now you've like left me with no options and he's like oh you can do whatever you want you can like marry a guy and that's like essentially the only option left to her and she's like well I might have sold flowers but I never sold myself and it's like she isn't allowed to do all the things she's done before and it is kind of interesting how that happens where she theoretically has a better life now she like has nicer clothes she has access to housing and like a bathroom and all that stuff but she doesn't really have any options anymore whereas like before when she was on the street she could kind of do whatever she wanted because no one cared about her.

[1:02:41] Cindy: That's fascinating I didn't even think about that but you're so right now you have these like golden handcuffs yeah and so I guess like also with this song it's like let's just do it like screw society let's just do what we want to do.

[1:02:52] Christine: That's right she she just keeps saying over and over again in that scene what's to become of me I forgot about that now let's talk about Higgins how would you describe where he is at this point having you know he did it he did everything that he wanted he really really really did it and now what.

[1:03:09] Cindy: Well it appears that he just doesn't know left it's completely beyond his comprehension um I love a hymn to him I think it might be my favorite number I especially like the verse where he asks Pickering every line where he's like he's like would you be mad if I didn't send you flowers and Pickering was like excuse me just like completely like unrelated things that he's asking Pickering and I absolutely love it.

[1:03:48] Christine: Misogynistic of course but like viewing that like satirically now when you saw this revival the last time I saw this show was a kind of an intimate version where there were only eight people in the whole cast wow and so a lot of people were playing a lot of roles and it was lovely it was lovely it was like on a smaller stage in San Diego but this was also pre 2018 and I can't remember if people were still laughing at.

[1:04:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome back to A Musical Theatre Podcast. Today, we're diving into the classic musical, My Fair Lady, with our guests from the Bottomless Broadway podcast.

[1:08:00] Christine: Big step forward. Do you think this is a romantic song?

[1:08:05] Cindy: I think it's supposed to be in the musical. I think how the revival tried to spin it, which I don't necessarily know if this came across because there's not too much you can do with this song, but it's that like as much as he's changed Eliza, Eliza has also changed him. It's not necessarily in a romantic way, it's just like his way of life is different now and he has possibly grown as a person.

[1:08:33] Christine: And yet the language is so romantic, you guys. Her face, her smile, the way she says hello. I guess that's the question with like, does this strengthen or weaken the characters of the story compared to the play? Because the play basically ends after they visit his mother. If this were to follow the play's ending, it would end right after "Without You." But it adds on this extra two scenes. I feel like I would like the show better if it ended on "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face."

[1:09:05] Cindy: Me too. Because, you know, like how at the end of La La Land, they aren't together, but they're both sort of like happy with where they are. And they realize that there's the gratitude.

[1:09:17] Christine: Yeah. And I feel like it's kind of like that feeling at the end if they had ended with this song.

[1:09:23] Cindy: Yeah, I agree. He realizes he's fond of her while also recognizing that there's no way she's coming back. And for better or worse, that's how he's left. I mean, if this show were written today, I would definitely feel like, you know, like the last scene serves no purpose but to hint at romance and it's absolutely stupid. But I guess like, since it's set like a century ago, it's also kind of realist, just like she has nowhere to go. I mean, she could be with Freddie.

[1:09:59] Christine: Right. But Freddie is also broke. So like, she's not a dumb girl in love is the idea.

[1:10:07] Cindy: Yeah, that's the funny line. As soon as I can support Freddie, it's not as soon as Freddie can support her. Right. So she's like, I'm gonna be a go-getter. Well, we've talked about the ending ad nauseam. How do you feel about this show? Like, where do you end with this show?

[1:10:25] Christine: It's still an enjoyable show despite its failings. And I think, you know, if you get the right director, or just, you know, gender swap it or something, then it's definitely promising. I think it's an interesting trajectory for the show. Because 10 years ago, we would have said that it's one of the all-time greats that it will be done forever. You would say, it's an Oklahoma, it's a My Fair Lady, it will keep on going and going and going. And I honestly don't know that anymore. In five to 10 years, people might not be doing My Fair Lady at all.

[1:11:01] Cindy: I have the opportunity to go talk to a lot of students. And to be perfectly honest, most of them aren't interested in this type of story. I can totally see why that would be the case. Because, well, also, I have no history or personal connection to Oklahoma. And when I saw the 2019 revival, I thought it was the worst crap I had ever seen in my entire life. I told Christine that if they didn't serve cornbread and chili during intermission, I would have probably left.

[1:11:30] Christine: Oh my god. Tell the truth. You heard it here, folks.

[1:11:36] Cindy: And people love it. But I think if you've never seen the original before, it's just very hard to swallow today.

[1:11:45] Christine: The context is incredibly important. But also, back to My Fair Lady. Even with this revival being pretty interesting, I tend to still categorize it with chick flick musicals. We have this one friend who is a big fan of Waitress and Anastasia and those musicals. And she loves My Fair Lady. And I was kind of like, that makes sense. That track.

[1:12:12] Cindy: Yeah. So I still kind of consider it like that, even though I so believe that it's not a romance. I appreciate that this show can bring new conversation and new ambiguity to maybe the rom-com musical theater genre. But at the same time, it's still so full of men and their vantage points that I don't find myself running to the theater to see it.

[1:12:38] Christine: I agree with that. It can be a feminist show. Is it the most feminist show, though? Is it like the show that you would pick to be the feminist show?

[1:12:49] Cindy: It's not that show. And it wasn't written to be that either. But whether or not My Fair Lady holds up, I think just probably depends on how much people still want to hear the music.

[1:13:00] Christine: Yeah, you're absolutely right. My guess, this is just me guessing, but I think My Fair Lady at some point will exist only in concert form or staged reading events. I don't really foresee it being as grandly produced as it was on Broadway a couple years ago.

[1:13:18] Cindy: I guess it also depends how popular the movie continues to be.

[1:13:23] Christine: True.

[1:13:23] Cindy: And the movie obviously is definitely played more for romance. So it maybe will sort of stray from that because it...

[1:13:33] Christine: It has to.

[1:13:34] Cindy: Yeah. One last thing I kind of wanted to talk about was, have you looked at the album artwork on the original Broadway cast album?

[1:13:44] Christine: You mean like the caricature?

[1:13:45] Cindy: Yeah, the puppets. So that was an Al Hirschfeld cartoon. But it's supposed to be Shaw at the top, that's like kind of playing God, who is puppeting Higgins, who is puppeting Eliza. And I thought that was an interesting thing to put on the cover of a musical in the 50s, where it's expected that every musical is a romance. Because it already speaks to a very controlling power dynamic. And also it's kind of interesting because it's like, well, Higgins thinks he's the puppet master, but Todd jokes on him. He's actually just a character in a story or something.

[1:14:28] Christine: Yeah, totally.

[1:14:30] Cindy: But yeah, I thought that was just like an interesting move on their part to be like, yeah, we're not going to have these two people standing across from each other, like on equal standing or, you know, something like that. It seems almost commentary than I think the show feels.

[1:14:46] Christine: Yeah, it's probably like an homage to Shaw, who had died like fairly recently, because he, like, you know, hated classism and was kind of like, people who are rich and think they are better than other people are stupid, because they're also just caught in the game.

[1:15:07] Cindy: So that's probably why it's Shaw controlling Higgins. And also Higgins looks very mean on that cover.

[1:15:15] Christine: I'm staring at it right now.

[1:15:17] Cindy: I mean, first of all, like, he looks like squinty and mean, but he also reminds me of the laughing emoji face where your eyes are too trying to our little pizzas.

[1:15:29] Christine: That one.

[1:15:30] Cindy: I do think that the most interesting thing about this show is that it is a relationship based on power dynamics and the exploration of where that power comes from. Does it come from within? Does it come from external structures that we've put in place in society? I think it's all really fascinating and something that isn't often explored in musical theatre. And I think when we really own it as that, the show is pretty unique and pretty special. And thank you ladies for being willing to explore it with me. As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on A Musical Theatre Podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast@gmail.com. Be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at amusicalpodcast for more great content. And while you're at it, go and check out our Tee Public store where we have great designs based on favorite episodes, past and present. Ladies, how can we follow you and what you're up to?

[1:16:29] Christine: Yeah, so our podcast is Bottomless Broadway, which you can find on any podcast platform, including probably the one that you're listening to this on. And you can also follow us on Instagram or Twitter at Bottomless Bway.

[1:16:43] Cindy: Thank you again, ladies. I'm so appreciative. And everybody out there, you know what? I've grown accustomed to your face.