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[0:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But actually, I will say, I tried to read War and Peace. I couldn't get through it because the war sections to me are really dry and boring. But the Moscow society sections are, which is what this show is, are so good because they take these mundane, just society gossip. It's the peace part. There's the war part and the peace part. And the peace part has more war going on. And I think that's why it calls the show that because it's the war of really just all these society women especially gossiping about these other families. And, you know, I'm biased as a gay man. The female characters are more interesting to me.

[0:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, we are discussing the musical Natasha, Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812, which was a listener request from Connor and Casey. Not related. Casey wrote in, quote, this show was so good and gets completely overshadowed by why slash how it closed. I would love a deep dive into what made the show amazing instead of just hearing about how the producer screwed up. Great point. This show grew on me after seeing it until I was obsessed and ended up reading War and Peace to satiate myself.

End of quote. OK, so any musical that can get someone to read a 1300 page epic novel from the 1800s is 100 percent worth talking about on a musical theater podcast. And here with me are three people that are really excited to do so. Season one of their original series, Act of Faith, a musical mockumentary series, is available to watch for free right now on Tubi. You can also purchase it on Amazon Prime. I think it's on Roku, right? Is it on Roku too, guys?

[2:04] Dana: Yeah, it's on Roku as well. Yep.

[2:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Everybody, give it a watch. And everyone, please welcome Dana, Jeremy, and Kyle.

[2:11] Dana: Yay. Hello. Thank you so much for having us.

[2:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All right. Tell me about yourselves. Tell me about your show. How did y'all meet? Let's get into this before we get into the epic story. The other epic story that we'll be talking about.

[2:24] Jeremy: The other epic story. We met, we have all known each other for a really long time. So Dana and I met, was it 11 years ago now? And then Jeremy and I met, was it 10, 11 years ago now too?

[2:36] Kyle: So we all met the same year. But they didn't meet until a couple years later. But Dana and I grew up doing theater together. And then Jeremy and I did youth theater together.

[2:47] Jeremy: We were cast as Melchior and Moritz in Spring Awakening when we were teenagers.

[2:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know what, that is such a vibe. Just saying that really kind of, I think, explains a lot. But just for typecasting, who was Melchior and who was Moritz?

[3:01] Dana: Funny story. Yeah, you can...

[3:05] Jeremy: So I was cast as Moritz and he was cast as Melchior. And then he unfortunately did not get to play the role. He had to drop out of the show. It was heartbreaking.

[3:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No!

[3:16] Dana: But we stayed friends, you know, then dated and got married, you know.

[3:21] Jeremy: We're married, I don't know.

[3:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I did not know this. This is news to me. Congratulations, boys.

[3:25] Jeremy: Thank you very much.

[3:26] Dana: We save room for Dana, which is why she's in the middle.

[3:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The listeners can't see this, but we're all on a video call and Dana's in the middle.

[3:33] Kyle: Dana's always in the middle.

[3:34] Jeremy: Dana is kind of the Bible in between two people dancing at a junior prom at maybe the school that your show is based at.

[3:42] Dana: Room for Jesus, of course.

[3:44] Jeremy: But then the reason why the Spring Awakening thing is a funny story is because we did the show again. I was directing it and I cast Jeremy as Melchior and our Moritz dropped and I had to emergency fill in.

[3:59] Dana: So when we met, he was Moritz and I was Melchior. And then we did the show again and it was reversed.

[4:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: See? Versatile. I like it. Bravo.

[4:06] Jeremy: It was actually pretty amazing, too. I had the chance to meet Duncan Sheik years ago. And it was one of the most amazing experiences of my life because Spring Awakening means so much to me. And I told him that I was Moritz and he took one look at me and he was like, you were cast wrong. You should have been Melchior. So it was really funny.

[4:27] Kyle: So I write it all down.

[4:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You listened to Duncan Sheik and said, we got this.

[4:33] Jeremy: We got this, Duncan.

[4:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: OK, so then how did this show come about? Because as someone who's trying to create content, it ain't easy. And certainly in TV production, it ain't cheap. So what possessed you all to try to do this?

[4:52] Dana: Funny enough, we were working in the off-Broadway circuit. We had a show at Ars Nova, which is tying into Great Comet. In the same room that Great Comet got its start, we were doing a show, which was surreal because we were super fans of Great Comet. It was sacred. Literally, I was there and I was like, I'm in this dressing room with Grace McLean probably sweating. I'm probably sitting in her sweat.

[5:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's incredible and surreal and awesome. OK, continue.

[5:22] Dana: So we were working the off-Broadway circuit and then the pandemic hit and we had to leave New York. And so we came back to the Chicagoland area, which is where the three of us are originally from. And we wanted to do film for a long time, but our heart and soul was in the theater. You know, we were in New York pursuing that. I attended NYU and that was my world, our world, really. Also, we had written this pilot for this show while we still lived in New York about a youth theater company in the Midwest. And one of the admin team members being gay, but it being an evangelical Christian company was sort of the central conflict. This was an idea that's based on real life story, real life stories.

So this was an idea that was floating around between the three of us for honestly, since we were kids. What happened was it is a comedy, but the guy who sort of it's based on his real story passed away in 2020. And we were all quarantined together. And it just gave us all this new, like fire to finish telling that story and kind of honor that experience.

[6:41] Jeremy: And so we all really felt strongly about shooting the pilot. And, you know, there's the conventional way of shopping around a pilot once you've shot it. But it was Jeremy, especially, who felt very strongly that we independently produced all for a season because we had the luxury of doing so. Jeremy's dad is like a filmmaker and has a media company. He's a producer director based in Chicago. Right by where we lived. He had an office building that was not being used at the time. That became a set.

[7:10] Kyle: Yeah. And so we were very privileged and fortunate in that way to have a location. And then we built the world around that, too. So it worked out very well. It felt so real to us because it was lived experiences that we had experienced or our friends had confided in us and stuff like that. But as the show has come out and it's been streaming, it's been really amazing and heartbreaking at the same time to see people connect with it in a way that, you know, felt that pain, you know, and they're glad that they can see it in a musical and a comedy. And so they can laugh about it with, you know, their friends that were also in like a culty, like religious environment. And so it's been very inspiring in that way.

[8:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's beautiful. I got to say, I'm going to jump in right here real fast and say that, like, I'm so grateful that you went the comedy route to explore some of these things that are difficult. I mean, I definitely did conversion therapy, took myself, like, which is hilarious. But I remember when that film Boy Erased came out and my partner went and saw it. And I was like, I don't think I want to go see it because, like, I have no ill will toward anything that I went through. Like, truly, it's different. I had family that loved me and supported me and feel very blessed. Anyway, anything that is in the realm of this type of storytelling that feels a little bit like trauma porn, like I just I can't. I can't. And he and he went and saw Boy Erased and was like, yeah, you don't need to see this. Probably this isn't for you. But but this is more my style. It's more my style to, like, be able to laugh at it and help process some of the discomfort through the comedy.

[9:03] Dana: You know, thank you.

[9:04] Jeremy: Thank you. Howard Ashman. I believe he said this. It's make them laugh so you can make them cry. You know, and that's one of my favorite quotes. It's one of the things that we used when we were writing the script to have heartfelt moments that were earned, you know, but also hilarious moments that people will relate to and just have fun. And also, like, we wanted the show to also be able to reach people who maybe wouldn't necessarily know about these issues or gravitate towards them. And I have found that if it's really overwhelmingly heavy, as opposed to a comedy, it's a lot maybe it's less accessible for certain types of people. And there's some people who I want to maybe be more educated or who I want to, like, interface with this kind of a story or think about these issues who are more likely to because it's a comedy.

[10:00] Kyle: I can attest that people are I'm already hearing stories of people actually coming to me and saying, like, Shane was like, I don't know why I've heard about this struggle. I've heard people say it's hard until until because he was he was a production assistant on Active Faith. He was like, until we made Active Faith and I actually watched some of the episodes. I didn't get what you actually went through. Something about it being a comedy in it was down to earth. It invited someone who hasn't experienced that. It made them feel comfortable enough to actually open their mind. It truly has been one of the most healing processes of my entire life to work on a series.

[10:44] Dana: You know, we also love musical theater, too. And so, you know, we have anything from, you know, references to Summerstock and Carousel. Sorry, I'm blanking right now. There's so many references. There's a shot for shot recreation of when there was a musical at one point. Like, there's so many references. It's theater nerd porn, but it's also like for the gay Christian, too.

[11:14] Jeremy: Great comment.

[11:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm sorry. Great comment.

[11:17] Dana: Great comment.

[11:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, truly, though, you guys, congratulations. That's really, that's really, really wonderful.

[11:25] Jeremy: Thank you.

[11:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: When we were deciding what show to talk about, you all said that you were Dave Malloy fans.

[11:31] Dana: Yes, die hard.

[11:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, I got to be honest. I wasn't super excited to do the deep dive on Natasha Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812. And by the way, I feel like I have to say the whole title. It feels disrespectful if I don't. But I wasn't super excited because I wasn't able to see the show in person. So I've never seen it in the theater. It's not a score with a lot of standalone earworms, you know. And I also think that culturally, I'm a little prejudiced. And I'm not proud to say that, but I think I've seen Rocky one too many times over here in America. And so the thought of feeling an innate connection to Russian art and culture is like, I don't know, lack of a better word, foreign to me. And so, and even being like a theater nerd with Chekhov and Tchaikovsky and ballet, like, I was a little like Tolstoy, who cares?

Now, thanks to this episode, thanks to the prep that I've done for this episode, I can now happily say I was dead wrong. On all accounts. And I mean, it's like, the Russians probably don't care that my heart has changed. But I feel closer to Russia now.

[12:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No way am I suddenly a Putin sympathizer, but this show gave me new perspectives on what Russian culture has brought to art and humanity in a way that I did not expect. Does this make any sense to y'all whatsoever?

[13:10] Kyle: Yes. When you were saying, oh, I wasn't at first excited to do a deep dive on this one, I was like, huh. And then when you were like, I didn't see it in person, I was like, oh, okay, then that's why. Because there's a thing with musical theater where there's different kinds of shows where there's like the Andrew Lloyd Webber, Tim Rice projects were made as concept albums and they were made to be experienced in your living room on the album as much as they were to see the show. And then there's musical theater where that happens by accident, where it's really written to be experienced in the theater, but that someone produces a complete recording of the whole score and people get hooked that way.

And then there's some musicals and some musical theater writers where they're just trying to write a piece of theater to be experienced live that has music in it and that uses music to advance the experience of being live. And I would say that when Dave Malloy in general, even before when he would just produce shows that he didn't write, he's always been that way as an artist and his collaborations with Annie Tipp and or is it Tippy? I don't remember if it's Tippy or Tippy and Rachel Chavkin. They're always about the live experience. I tried to get into Great Comet from the album before I saw it. And before it was the Off-Broadway album before they made the one with Groban. And I couldn't get into the show. I saw it live once and I was a diehard Dave Malloy fan for life. So isn't that fascinating?

[14:44] Jeremy: Well, and when I my first experience, the show is he saw it live, then came back.

[14:50] Kyle: I also saw it live.

[14:51] Jeremy: Yeah, yeah. I just had the most amazing theatrical experience. And then we listened to the album and he talked me through the entire show. And he was like, and then this happens in this song. And then this happens in the staging happens here in this. And he like verbally recreated the show for me while we listened to the whole cast album. And that's how I got into it. That was while Dana and I were living in Austin and Jeremy was at NYU. We were in a long distance relationship. So Jeremy, I saw it in New York. And then I came back to Austin and was able to... It was incredibly funny kind of tangent. But he and his mom were in the like front row. And I was like, oh, I want to see the show too. And I was in like the last row.

[15:32] Dana: You're like, wow, must be nice feeling to be part of the show down there.

[15:40] Kyle: I will say two things about the show. I had a very similar experience with the cast album when it came out and I believe 2012. I tried to get into it and I struggled with it. And when I found out that it was coming to Broadway, I was skeptical really. But then when you first enter, they completely changed that.

[16:05] Jeremy: It did not look like a Broadway theater at all.

[16:07] Kyle: No, it felt like you were actually going into Russia. Like it was when you walked in there, it felt kind of like 80s communism in a way like with like the walls, you know, like it was very grayscale. And then they had all these like posters and signs. It was very jarring juxtaposition between this feeling of like cold, almost creepy when you walk through that hallway. And then it was warm. Like, like nightclub, like fun, like...

[16:37] Dana: Yeah, Russian opulence in a nightclub circa 1800s.

[16:41] Kyle: They looked at the Met Opera House in New York, actually, when they were designing the sets. I mean, they say it's an opera, you know what I mean? And like a first song. So it was like a way of easing you into New York and Russia at the same time, you know, like, let me get you adjusted into this world. And I really felt when you see it, you really feel that but it's hard when it's just auditory. The music, the songs aren't written to be, they don't follow like the formula of like a verse chorus, verse chorus, bridge chorus, trying to do it's like the polar opposite of a score like Dear Evan Hansen. And it's funny that it was the same year, because they truly couldn't be more different in their goals for what kinds of songs are being written.

And that's why it in our today in our culture, across America, across the world of musical theater lovers, it might be harder to access the public and get people excited about a show. If you're writing songs like Dave Malloy, because you can't get you like you can't get the same experience without seeing it when it's that kind of song. Yeah, it's just very different strategies.

[17:52] Dana: I saw the show six times. I'm a huge super fan of the show. What I will say about the show is that when you do actually sit down and listen to the cast album from beginning to end, let it wash over you. And you go on the journey. That's when I think you can finally maybe catch the magic of it. And what almost immediately pops out to me while listening to it is, oh my gosh, every performance on this album is phenomenal. Everyone's so great. But I think it begins fundamentally with the character work that he is able to create just from his writing. It's then no surprise why he's so interested in these literary works of yesteryear that have so much texture and so much character development. I mean, not only has Dave Malloy musicalized this portion of War and Peace, but he's also done Moby Dick.

All of these things that I think would intimidate some people he finds endlessly inspiring. I have this quote from him. He says, I'm often asked, how did you pick this section of War and Peace? You know, this huge novel. In a novel so bursting with riches with so many unforgettable characters and astonishing moments, how to pick just one section to adapt? But the truth is, for me, there was never a choice. This section chose me. The parallel stories of Natasha's Ruin and Pierre's Awakening are so perfectly and tautly crafted by Tolstoy, so wonderfully interwoven and complimentary and so full of passion and despair that to me they immediately sang out in the voice of musical theater. End quote. How inspiring is that?

[19:41] Kyle: I could cry.

[19:42] Dana: Yeah, I got really emotional.

[19:44] Jeremy: Absolutely. Me too. I'm just so impressed by him that he's able to hear that kind of music with this literature. Now, let's talk about the literature a little bit because we got to talk about Tolstoy, right? So Leo Tolstoy, born 1828, easily regarded as one of the greatest authors of all time, most famously wrote Anna Karenina, War and Peace. Any of you big Tolstoy fans?

[20:05] Dana: Have you, like, yeah?

[20:06] Kyle: I read Anna Karenina in five days and then I...

[20:12] Dana: Get out of here. I hate you so much. Like, how? How? My brain doesn't work like that. That's amazing.

[20:17] Kyle: I was obsessed, honestly. I think that reading Tolstoy, someone said, is like breathing, you know? He captures life so amazingly well. And so I was obsessed with that. And then, of course, I was obsessed with War and Peace. So that was my final book that I read last year.

[20:36] Jeremy: And did you finish the entire thing?

[20:37] Kyle: Of course.

[20:38] Jeremy: Yeah.

[20:39] Dana: That's incredible. My dad read, I mean, because of Les Mis, my dad would infamously take this paperback version of Les Mis on, like, an airplane for, like, four years. And he finally, he finally finished the entire thing. But once again, because musical theater inspired him to do so. So go dad. But so it's kind of the same thing with you, right?

[20:59] Kyle: Yeah. Would you have read it without this show?

[21:06] Dana: I'm incredibly weird, you know? I really, like, to me, I love reading classic literature. It's just one of my favorite things in the entire world. And to be honest, because it's only like 70 pages of the entire book, I was like, okay, like, I know this section, but I want to know what happened before what led to it. And then I want to know what happened after. And there is so much that happens. I mean, it's a huge novel, obviously. But it too is my favorite part of the novel, honestly.

[21:37] Kyle: Oh, that's cool. And I can't tell if it's because I saw the show. But what he said about Natasha's fall and Pierre's Awakening spoke to me a lot as a reader and a lover of the book.

[21:51] Jeremy: So just so everybody knows, we're talking like volume two, part five of this book. A couple of accomplishments for Tolstoy, courtesy of Wikipedia. Nominated for the Nobel Prize in Literature five years in a row in the early 1900s. That's when the Nobel Prize was created. Otherwise, he would have won it, right? And was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1901, 1902, and 1909.

[22:18] Kyle: Now, this is what I didn't know about him. Later on in his life, he has this conversion where he cites like the pacifist teachings of Jesus Christ. I brought this up because hello, active faith, as bringing him to an almost extreme view of nonviolent resistance. And he gets excommunicated from the Russian Orthodox Church, starts writing about philosophy and ends up inspiring, oh, Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. I didn't know this.

[22:51] Dana: No way. We just talked about in Barnes & Noble two days ago, we were talking about war and peace. And I brought up the connection between Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. But I didn't know that. This is crazy.

[23:03] Kyle: That is insane. And by the way, thank you for going Barnes & Noble. It's like one of my favorite places. But yeah, they were both inspired by Tolstoy and his writings about nonviolence. I didn't know the connection. I just brought it up because it was reminding me of them. But thank you for sharing that with us because I had no idea.

[23:27] Dana: Of course. This guy, I had no idea. Incredible dude. He obviously has this huge career that just brings about so much storytelling. And Dave Malloy, when looking at this section and being inspired by it, I love that he said this. He really enjoyed subverting the traditional musical theater form of the two-couple musical. In Oklahoma, you got Curly and Laurie and Will Parker, Edo Annie. There's so many just like that. Here, he wanted to do that but subverted a little. So you got Natasha and Andre, if you will, or Anatole, however you want to say. And then the other couple is Pierre and An Existential Crisis. And then he decided on the title, Natasha, Pierre, and the Great Comet of 1812, because it reminded him of a Bob Dylan song.

[24:27] Kyle: Like all of these different references, he's referencing Rodgers and Hammerstein. He's referencing Leo Tolstoy and then also Bob Dylan. He also cites, I mean, this score is a crazy amount.

[24:40] Jeremy: Oh no, it's like, if I'm not mistaken, the reference doesn't have anything to do with the song, but the title of the song, where it's like da-da-da, da-da-da, and da-da-da.

[24:49] Dana: Oh, I wonder if it's Rosemary Something and the Jack of Hearts.

[24:51] Jeremy: Yep, that's it. That's it. That's 100% what it is.

[24:54] Dana: Dana screams about Bob Dylan a lot.

[24:57] Jeremy: Well, you and Dave Malloy would have that in common, I think.

[25:00] Dana: I get carried away anytime Bob Dylan comes into the conversation.

[25:04] Kyle: Yeah, so he's got that Bob Dylan reference. Then within the score, you've got traditional Russian music. You've got a little bit of musical theater and opera. You got Arcade Fire. He calls this thing an electro-pop opera, as I think how he categorized it. It's original, to say the least.

[25:25] Jeremy: Now, talk a little bit about Ars Nova, because in our Dear Evan Hansen episode that just came out, we talked about Ars Nova because Steven Levinson was an artist-in-residence there. I told everybody, keep that place in mind because we'll be talking about it again. Here we are. Natasha Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812 debuts at Ars Nova. What is this organization?

[25:48] Kyle: Ars Nova's whole mission is to foster

[25:52] Dana: New art or new artists that would not normally have the opportunity to be seen. Natasha, Pierre, and the Great Comet of 1812 came out of that. Their early days, it was one of their, it was one of the things that really put them on the map, to be completely honest, because it allowed the creators to have such freedom within the space, you know. You could completely do whatever you wanted with the venue, you know, in a lot of ways. And at the time, and, I mean, still in New York, it's really hard to find spaces that allow you to do that.

[26:29] Kyle: Yeah, well, I'd say that Ars Nova, and just from our experience, I directed our show there, Contact High, and our set design, it was a, so our relationship with Ars Nova was the last show in what they called their Fling Program, which was like a co-producer thing. So we were like producing with them. And it was as they were transitioning out of offering what they called flings, which is like, it's not a rental, it's not a part of their season, it's a fling. And I think that language, it actually captures it really well, but I think that it was confusing the public, which is why they kind of stopped doing it. Right, is this one of your productions, or is it not? And you're like, it's a tryst, get over it. It's a one night stand. It's a benefit.

[27:15] Jeremy: Exactly. But for being that, I've never done something like that with a venue before where there was so much freedom. And we were actually inspired by Great Comet. We were like, because it's a really small venue, it's like teeny. And I couldn't believe how big, Great Comet was a bigger show than our show. And I was like, how are we going to fit our show into this tiny, tiny space? So we went back to Great Comet, and we were like, how did they do this? And it's absolutely amazing. I'm pretty sure Dave wrote Great Comet, I think it was for Ars Nova. And so he wrote it around that space and leave it to someone like him to be like, oh, sure, we can do this enormous show in this tiny closet. 10,000 characters.

[28:01] Kyle: Yeah, but that's the New York theater scene right now. Things are so expensive. And it's so hard to make theater happen at a place like Ars Nova. That's what can be afforded. And so you have to get creative. And so this whole trend of immersive theater, experiential, it's intimate. That's all of us just coming up with a way to brand the fact that we're like, we don't have money to go big.

[28:27] Dana: These are the economic problems. And so we're getting creative.

[28:30] Jeremy: Yeah, so we're spinning it positively. I will say, though, that the economic problems I think are creating in a lot of ways better theater, because giving audiences this immersive experience is something they can't get in front of their screens. So like, yes, you do it for financial reasons. But I also do think it makes it interesting and makes the audience feel like they can participate. Because the question you always ask is like, well, couldn't they get that on their screen? Not in the way they can with the actors all around them and interact.

[28:57] Dana: And that's bring it back to Great Comet. Throwing pierogies at them.

[29:00] Kyle: That's what Great Comet was all about. That's what Chavkin as a director is all about. And what Dave Molloy as a creator is all about is like, they do things that you cannot get going to see a movie, watching a TV show, or listening to an album. It's like when we saw Ghost Quartet, which was also written by Dave Molloy.

[29:20] Jeremy: Kind of like a chamber piece, right?

[29:21] Dana: Yeah. Well, that's Octet.

[29:24] Jeremy: Oh, Octet. Okay.

[29:25] Dana: Octet, Ghost Quartet, they both are tets. But at Ghost Quartet, the finale of the show is they hand out musical instruments. And they teach, it's a folk song that's really repetitive and easy. So they teach the percussion, the shaker, and the drum. And this like little, I think it was like a xylophone type thing. I don't remember the specifics. Two specific audience members, get them playing the song. And then they stopped playing their instruments, stopped singing. And the show ended with the audience performing.

[29:59] Jeremy: That makes me so emotional. That's so beautiful. It's like what Sondheim was trying to do with Anyone Can Whistle. But like, it actually is a beautiful experience instead of a confronting one. That's really cool. Anyway, you said you played the drums, Jeremy?

[30:15] Jeremy: Oh, I played the drum in Ghost Quartet, and I was nervous as shit. I was like, I don't want to mess this up. But it was an amazing communal experience, because it didn't matter if I messed up. It didn't matter about that, because it was such a communal environment and inclusive. And you're sharing, it's never going to be the same, you know?

[30:38] Dana: That's so cool. We got to talk about Rachel Chapkin, who's Dave Malloy's longtime collaborator. And an incredible director. She has, you know, what you said, kind of brought the theatrical experience out of the proscenium and really into the in-person. AI can't do that, you know? For all of the things that we talk about, technology ruining our society, these types of things are the things that can last and might actually make theater even more equitable in the future.

[31:11] Kyle: So, kudos to her. She obviously went on to do Hadestown, and that's what she wins her Tony Award for. Let's talk about the Tony Awards, because when Natasha Pierre and The Great Comedy of 1812 comes out, it gets nominated for the most Tony Awards in the season. I think 12 nominations it received. Incredible, it ends up winning two, lighting and scenic design, right?

[31:35] Dana: Yep. Now, this is my hot take, and it's probably a lukewarm take compared to you guys, but my hot take is that this show is the most influential musical of that Broadway season.

[31:51] Jeremy: Yes. It's obvious if you look at what comes next.

[31:56] Dana: That being said, it's not the biggest hit, right? And there are even shows I adore come from away. It is, for lack of a better word, an island. It feels like its own little piece of beautiful empathy and humanity. Dear Evan Hansen is wonderful in many ways, and I really enjoy it, but it almost affects Hollywood more than Broadway, because Pacek and Paul go to Hollywood and stay for most of their time after that. But then with this show, you've got Hadestown coming after it. Just even the look of Moulin Rouge and how it plays out is directly affected by this show. It's fascinating how much it changed Broadway and how few people know about it.

[32:42] Kyle: Yeah. Well, it's interesting when I have... I'm sorry, Jeremy, open your mouth to say something.

[32:47] Jeremy: You were already talking. You were talking. I have plenty of thoughts.

[32:53] Dana: So, I have a lot of friends who are comics who don't really know musical theater, and so some of them have asked me about what musicals are there that are good that I don't know. And I've introduced a couple of them to Great Comet or to Octet, and they lost their mind.

[33:13] Jeremy: That's cool.

[33:13] Dana: The other day, my roommate, who's a comic, I was playing the cast album, and he was like, this is kind of cool. And it was Natasha Pierre in The Great Comet of 1812. He's like, I kind of like this.

[33:23] Jeremy: Was it Hey Belaga, Ho Belaga?

[33:25] Dana: Yes, yes.

[33:25] Jeremy: I knew it.

[33:26] Dana: You best believe I was like...

[33:27] Kyle: She plays Belaga all the time.

[33:29] Dana: Because it's such a bop. It's a bop.

[33:31] Jeremy: All the damn time.

[33:31] Dana: It's a bop.

[33:32] Kyle: It is such a bop.

[33:33] Dana: It is really great.

[33:34] Jeremy: I didn't know if you're in. If you're like a little bit down, you need a little bit of hype. My roommate was hosting a weekend at CG's, and he needed to get hyped. And so I put on Belaga on the car ride there to get him hyped up, and it worked.

[33:48] Dana: See, now, even down to things like the Renaissance album by Beyonce, I'm not saying that it's affected by or it was influenced by Great Comet. But there is this new kind of trend in songwriting, contemporary songwriting, where it's not necessarily about songs like, you know, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, but they're about moments, right? Transitions. Now we're in this section of the song. Now we're in this section of the song. And that is how this entire score is.

[34:20] Kyle: I will put on a track on this album because I love this one section so much.

[34:25] Dana: Yeah.

[34:26] Kyle: Right?

[34:27] Dana: It's a five-minute sequence, but there's this one part where they go into this one place, and then in the background, this crazy electro production kicks in, and it's sick.

[34:37] Jeremy: Yeah. What you just said about songwriting, it's really exciting to watch people, even to hear it. Jeremy really loves Happier Than Ever by Billie Eilish.

[34:48] Kyle: Oh, sure.

[34:49] Jeremy: When he plays that song, it's cool to hear the top pop songs starting to do that too now. Like you mentioned, like Cuff It, you know, like Renaissance, because for a long time, popular music has been trapped in verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus, chorus. And it's really cool to hear Happier Than Ever change halfway through the song, the way that it's mixed, the way that it's produced, time signature, and everything about the form and feeling of the song.

[35:22] Dana: Because context is all, what you just said about the five-minute sequence, and there's this one section that goes to this one place. I do think that that is part of why, I think Hamilton is another great example, and Great Comet is a great example, and those two shows were back-to-back seasons. What I loved about Hamilton was how each number led to the next. Like, I loved how Skylar defeated, set up what was going on with Burr, and then you got into that whole arc, and just like the little moments that gave context to the next moment.

[36:05] Jeremy: And a moment can be really exciting, but if the whole thing is like that moment, it's gonna fall flat. It's all about the ups and downs and the journey that you take people on, and no one does that better than Dave Malloy.

[36:07] Dana: Well, I have a really hard time with musical theater cabarets, specifically because what makes the songs really enjoyable is where they fit in the context, and what it's doing for the story, and what it's doing for the characters. And then, so when I go to musical theater cabarets, and it's like, and now this song is just out of nowhere happening. I'm like, and now a collection of songs I've always wanted to sing.

[36:31] Jeremy: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[36:32] Dana: It's the context of the story and all that that makes it magic.

[36:36] Kyle: Special.

[36:36] Dana: I agree, I agree. Speaking of context, one of my dear friends went and saw this show in its original Broadway run, and said, this is the most incredible thing I've seen this season. I loved it so much. I can't tell you what happened.

[36:56] Jeremy: I have no idea what happened.

[36:59] Dana: It's a non-stop party. Like I said, it's the third point. There's this, this, and then there's a great comment. It's non-stop energy. I mean, it's kind of what we talked about a little bit with Active Faith, make them laugh so you can make them cry. It's so much energy. You're so hyped. And then all of a sudden, you have the whole entire ensemble coming out, little glasses of water and just doing the ring at the end for the comment coming down. And it's this most brilliant, powerful moment.

[37:34] Kyle: We should also talk, and I said we weren't going to mention this much, but the show closes with controversy, unfortunately. And it has kind of usurped so much of what made it special because of this casting choice. What happened was Josh Groban left. Then Dave Malloy comes in and plays Pierre while they're getting somebody else ready to go in. The person who goes in, takes over the role, is a person of color. In order to help ticket sales, they decide to do a stunt casting thing and have that guy not do the role and Mandy Patinkin come in. That creates some outrage online, specifically via Twitter, and the producers decide not to go through with the Mandy Patinkin casting and the show closes. So it kind of closes on this stupid note that, like I said, I don't really want to dwell on. But it's interesting that in addition to not winning very many awards, that's kind of one of its big legacies, at least when you Google it.

[38:40] Dana: What's ironic is that it's the same year that the show also was given this award for diversity in the theater.

[38:48] Kyle: Isn't that fascinating? It's very fascinating. All I want to say about the controversy because it was weird living in New York and having friends on the inside of some of that is that there's the story. This is just true of everything in entertainment. It's all politics. There's a story that is created by people who work in like publicists, you know, PR people. There's the information we get as the public, and then there's what goes on behind the scenes. And it's always very complicated. There's the story that gets put out, and then there's the story that people run with. And the story people run with because then story and narrative and press becomes a commodity where people are trying to make money.

Those are three very different things. The story that goes on behind the scenes, the story that gets said to the public, and then the story that people run with and profit from, honestly. So it's really unfortunate when something like this gets in the way of the brilliant artistry that we've all just spent all this time talking about that can completely change lives and affect positive change in the world. Well, and I think the most volatile story is the one that makes the most money and that would sell the most. At least with this algorithm that we're working with. With this kind of algorithm, yeah. Outrage is what sells. And so I feel like whatever the truth is of what actually went on behind the scene, what the journalists and the press would push would be what would get the most clicks and the most hits, which would be outrage or controversy or whatever.

And yeah, I guess it's just it's kind of a bummer that it gets in the way of this amazing, beautiful show that for me was very transcendent when I saw it. When I saw the finale, I was like teary-eyed and weepy and I'm like, oh my gosh, what just happened? And then there's this kind of thing that happens. The best thing I think we can do for the show and for the legacy of it is what you have suggested, which is to not dwell on this element and really talk about what it, because it meant so much to all of us as prior to that happening. And even your listener, was it Connor asked about?

[41:08] Jeremy: Casey, yeah.

[41:09] Kyle: Casey, thank you. Yeah. Casey asked about, like, I would love to hear someone not dwell on that controversy and just dig deep into the piece outside of that, which I think I would love to do and I'm glad we're doing because it's...

[41:25] Dana: Well, there's so much there. I feel like you could spend like a solid six hours just unpacking the show, which we don't have the time for, but like you could because of how just dense and rich and wonderful it is.

[41:42] Kyle: So in honor of my friend who had no idea what was going on in the show, we're now going to attempt, and I did this with Ragtime and it took much longer than Ragtime actually. No, I'm just kidding. But we are going to try and go through the characters here and a little bit of what the show is so that when you're listening to it, you have some context and you can experience the show because I don't know if you're ever going to get to see it, at least in the way that it was presented on Broadway. So from the get-go, first words of the show, there's a war going on, right? We know that these are turbulent times in the country. And then they also let us know that we're at the opera. Now, funny enough, guess who hated the opera, you guys? Tolstoy.

[42:23] Jeremy: Tolstoy hated the opera.

[42:24] Kyle: So there is a self-awareness with the way that Dave Malloy has approached this version of the Russian opera. This first song almost is like a drinking song or a, she swallowed the spider to catch the fly. I don't know why she swallowed a fly. Do you remember? Like those children's songs. Such a great commentary, number one, on how unapproachable opera can be sometimes, but also how unapproachable war and peace can feel because of how many characters there are. This device of introducing everyone is amazing. They introduce each character and give them essentially one word for the audience to remember. If you remember nothing else about this person, remember this one word and it'll help you follow the story. First person we talk about, Andre. Andre isn't here because he's fighting in the war. Next person, Natasha, one of the title characters, her word is?

[43:20] Dana: Young.

[43:21] Kyle: And the way that he's picked these words is really brilliant because it's not just that she's young in age, which she is. There's an innocence to her. There's a vibrancy to her.

[43:34] Jeremy: And the foolishness.

[43:35] Kyle: You're absolutely right. Her cousin, Sonia, her word is?

[43:42] Dana: Good.

[43:42] Kyle: Good. And I mean, that's fair. Sonia is just a good egg and a great confidant to Natasha. Natasha's godmother is named Maria and her word or words?

[43:54] Dana: She has kind.

[43:56] Kyle: No, it's old school.

[43:57] Dana: Yes, old school. She's the one who's always going to remind us of what the Russian aristocracy expects from these characters. This is how you do things. And she's going to make sure that Natasha is that way. Next up, we got this family who is giving us full cruel intentions. I don't know what went wrong with this family, but we got Anatole who is hot and we got Helene who's a slut. Anatole is only concerned in wine and women and he is married, by the way, but very few people know about that and he doesn't care. He wants to do what he does. He a hoe. Then we got Helene who is actually married to Pierre, this guy who's telling us the whole story. Somehow they're in this loveless, very antagonistic relationship, marriage, and she is sleeping with someone else who is named Dolikov. His word is?

[45:00] Jeremy: Fierce.

[45:01] Kyle: Is fierce.

[45:02] Jeremy: But not too important.

[45:02] Kyle: But not too important. That's all you need to know. Next up, we've got Old Prince Bolkonsky. Am I saying that right?

[45:11] Jeremy: Yeah.

[45:11] Kyle: Okay. That dude's crazy. Once again, these performances are so incredible in this show, but it's because these characters are so specific. Yes, he is fully crazy. His daughter is named Mary.

[45:25] Dana: Plain.

[45:25] ⚠ About 3 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.

[48:30] Kyle: From everything her father is. She's not allowed to give her some energy. She has to give it all to him, basically.

[48:35] Jeremy: Yeah. So Natasha goes to meet them. Obviously, Andre's not there. And it just doesn't go well. They don't think very highly of her upon first meeting. Mary, being super plain, sees pretty young Natasha and thinks that she's vain. Natasha finds them cold. And she kind of torpedoes the whole thing at the end as well, basically like, well, I don't like you either, to make it very blunt.

[49:00] Kyle: So that's not going her way. Then they end up, I'm certainly skipping things, but then they go to the opera. Now, I found out recently that you know how every opera house has a beautiful staircase as you walk in. And somebody pointed out the staircase was that time's Instagram. You went to the opera in your dress to be seen in this very picturesque place by the right people in your most beautiful gown. How cool is that?

[49:34] Jeremy: That's cool. He even writes a little bit about that, because later on when Anatole's talking about going to the opera, they're like, how was it? And he's like, it was fine. They don't talk about the opera, they talk about who was there. That really kind of was the point. So she goes to the opera. And while she's there, she catches the eye of hot Anatole. And Anatole comes over, and they hit it off. And she's feeling fireworks, especially after all the drama that went down with her future in-laws. It's like that feeling where it's, I feel like we all know what it is, when you're shaking, and you know it's not right, but it feels exhilarating at the same time. And that only happens really when you're young, I feel like. Do you connect to that at all?

[50:24] Dana: Yeah, I connect to that a lot. I mean, I'm 27, and I get that.

[50:31] Jeremy: Kyle is young.

[50:35] Kyle: Why does Anatole, here's a question that I'm not sure about, why does Anatole invite Pierre to the club after the opera? So actually, that was a different section of War and Peace. He brought it in to give Pierre a little bit more substance. Because there was a lot that happened to Pierre prior to this section of the book.

[50:52] Jeremy: Yeah, everything else in this is word for word, almost that volume of the book, except the whole duel sequence is copied and pasted from volume one, I believe.

[51:01] Dana: Right.

[51:02] Kyle: Cool. And so he convinces Pierre to go out and drink, and Pierre, you know...

[51:08] Jeremy: Begrudgingly agrees.

[51:09] Kyle: Yeah, and so he goes, and then Helene, his wife, the slut, is being, you know, fooling around with Belikov. And so the two of them decide that they're going to duel it out. I mean, this is a little tidbit, I guess, but originally...

[51:25] Dana: Pierre and Belikov decide to duel it out, not Helene.

[51:30] Kyle: Not Helene. Helene's going to let that go. But when the show was at ART, originally, Dustin Ashes, he fired the gun.

[51:41] Jeremy: And then it was this existential moment of...

[51:44] Kyle: Am I going to live or die? Is this how I die? The beginning of the song, Dust and Ashes, was a literal, there's a bullet heading toward me. Is this how I die? Time stops.

[51:54] Jeremy: Yes, but then they did that in Hamilton. And I think Rachel Chavkin and Dave Moy had come up with this coincidentally, but they were afraid of being compared to Hamilton when they moved to Broadway. So they changed it to have the song happen after the whole sequence.

[52:09] Kyle: It's smart. It's crazy that there are two musicals with duels anyway.

[52:14] Jeremy: This close together.

[52:15] Kyle: I think it was, I mean, this is just me pontificating, but I think it was probably in the collective unconscious at the time. I think that's just my take on the matter. I think they could have gotten, I think that I personally believe the song would have been stronger if they had left it there, because it was his whole impetus for writing it. And I think they could have gotten away with it. And I've thought about if I ever direct the show, asking for permission to move it there, because now that time is, yeah, that's just a little thing. Anyway, the story.

[52:42] Dana: Anyway, the story. So then Dulikov and Pierre duel, and Dulikov is a fierce shot. He never misses.

[52:50] Kyle: Right.

[52:51] Dana: Ever. And so then he fires at Pierre, and he misses. And Pierre has this existential moment of like, wow, why was I scared? And why am I still alive? What am I doing with my life? Oh, God.

[53:07] Jeremy: Yes, exactly.

[53:08] Dana: Exactly.

[53:09] Kyle: Because only God, it's such a freak thing that he's still alive, that he's like, what? And in the musical, this sends him toward the end of his existential crisis, whereas in the book, this almost kind of starts it. Because this happens much earlier in the book. But the point is, it's a big event that shakes up his life, and it incentivizes him to work through his shit.

[53:32] Jeremy: Got it.

[53:34] Dana: So then the next, it's Sunday morning, and they go to church with Maria, Sonia, and—

[53:42] Kyle: The three gals.

[53:43] Dana: Three gals. And then when they come back home, Helene is there.

[53:48] Jeremy: Yes, because that kind of went down during the duel as well.

[53:51] Dana: Anatole was like, hey, sis, why don't you go? And this is why I'm saying cruel intentions. She's like, hey, sis, why don't you go get Natasha to meet me?

[54:02] Kyle: Yes, and Helene literally says, the thought of throwing them together amuses me.

[54:08] Jeremy: They're terrible.

[54:10] Dana: Yeah, but they also, it's worth noting that Helene and Anatole are almost explicitly incestuous in the book.

[54:17] Jeremy: Really?

[54:18] Dana: It's wrongly implied. And most scholars, most Tolstoy fans, and most people who just read the book are like, yeah, they bone in. So they're this brother and sister who have a Circe and what's Jamie thing going on, and they just love each other. And he's like, it would be really fun if I could deflower this society girl. And she's like, it'd be really fun if I could help you make that happen, brother. And that's why—

[54:42] Kyle: So gross. So gross. Also, Amber Gray obsessed.

[54:47] Dana: She's amazing.

[54:47] Kyle: Needs a Tony.

[54:48] Dana: One time—

[54:49] Kyle: Give that woman a Tony.

[54:50] Dana: Seriously. We were walking in the street, and she rode by on a bicycle. And Kyle goes, hey, that's Amber Gray. And she's like—

[54:57] Kyle: Yeah, she literally was on her bike.

[55:00] Dana: Was she pregnant at the time? Noticeably pregnant at the time? I think she might have been. But there was another time we saw her when she was, if it wasn't this moment. But she literally looks over and she goes—

[55:10] Kyle: Just like a little wave.

[55:12] Dana: It's like Wicked Witch of the—What's her name? Mrs. Galt. She was on a bicycle. This woman's an icon.

[55:19] Jeremy: That's amazing.

[55:19] Dana: I love how Pierre has an existential crisis to almost dying, and Helene decides to make other people sluttier.

[55:27] Kyle: Because it scares her.

[55:30] Dana: By the duel. Because this is right after the duel, and she screams. And the way that Rachel directs it anyway, or Amber plays it, who knows what the room held. But she's terrified and shaking during the duel. And she doesn't want to lose Pierre, even though she just treats him like crap their entire marriage. And then for some reason, in the story of the musical, the next thing she decides to do after seeing that happen is help her brother destroy this young girl's reputation. Because I'm guessing it's because she's trying to distract herself from her fear of mortality or something.

[56:05] Jeremy: Vulnerability. I think she's just completely allergic to it. Anything that makes her feel scared, weak, nervous, questioning, is immediately going to throw her into this behavior where she does feel confidence, which is being awful.

[56:21] Kyle: I relate to that.

[56:23] Dana: Relatable content.

[56:24] Kyle: If I'm feeling sad, I'll be like, what I should do is just be the worst. And that makes me feel better. It's not a good thing. I'm saying I get it.

[56:32] Dana: Sometimes when I feel out of control, I watch Hoarders. I'm not going to lie.

[56:37] Kyle: So Helene goes and sings to Miss Natasha, getting her to attend this ball in which she'll see Anatole. This all goes down. At the ball, they connect, right? And what do you think—I mean, Natasha's young, so there's that. But is there something about Anatole that we don't see? Because these are wonderful storytellers, and I feel like there's got to be some layers there.

[57:07] Jeremy: I think that—this is just my personal opinion. It's in the lyrics. She's like, everyone's looking at me when she first goes to the opera, you know what I mean? This is her first time in society. And she's betrothed to Andre, who is not there. And she sings this whole entire aria about him not being there and what that means to her. And so I think that there is an appeal of passion to Anatole, but that doesn't necessarily equate to love or necessarily equate to them being right for each other, you know? He's also being a little predatory, if we're being honest, because he wants her, you know?

[57:53] Dana: To your question about Anatole's psychology, like you said earlier, a Polish landowner of some small means has forced Anatole to marry his daughter, we find out.

[58:02] Jeremy: Great point. So he kind of got tricked into getting married in the first place.

[58:06] Dana: Yeah, Anatole is a free spirit. He is a suave, like everyone talks about him on the battlefield, even though he's not as good as Dolokhov, but he's sexier than Dolokhov. So everyone thinks about him first as the soldier in a soldier's uniform. And he shows up to the opera in his soldier's uniform. He walks with a swagger that would have been ridiculous had he not been so good looking, is what they say. So he is this confident child. He's also very young. And he's trapped in a marriage he doesn't want to be in. And he has to go to war. And this is a moment where he's just looking for, because what he does is he doesn't just look for a woman to have sex with, he looks for an innocent young woman to completely destroy her reputation in society, Russia.

And he does this, I think, there's context throughout that it's because he feels really trapped in his situation. And he is actually a little bit less naive than her. He knows he can't long term make this all work. But he just wants to live in like a VR experience where he can start again for a little while before he has to go back to war. And he uses her and he uses his connections to create this escape for himself. Well, Pierre even says he's like, you're basically you're ruining someone's life for the purpose of amusing yourself. I think sometimes we make bad decisions.

[59:38] Jeremy: Especially when we have the power to make them. For the first time as a young adult.

[59:45] Dana: Exactly. Yeah. So they end up kissing. Yeah. So that's how the first act ends.

[59:51] Kyle: She swears her love to him. It's so great, because they both sing to each other. On I believe the devil's triad, or not, or yeah, as I do anything for you. And she's saying, I would do anything for you. I'm in love with you. And he's saying, I would do anything for you, because you're my game. And I would do anything to get you. And it's so hot. It's literally Big Bad Wolf and Little Red Riding Hood. She's in love and he wants to ruin her life. And that's how it ends. It's one of the best ingenues I can think of Miss Natasha, because it's someone who we love and then we get so mad at and we feel bad for like the journey that we go on with her usually. And I don't know, at least this is how I feel. Usually an ingenue is someone that I don't feel wholly invested with emotionally. I know that like it's the lead and that I'm going to watch them, but I don't feel necessarily emotionally tied to them. Natasha, I am the entire time.

[1:00:54] Jeremy: Same. Act two is all about the fallout of this. Sonya, who's good, obviously is trying to convince Natasha that this is not a good idea. And Natasha really lashes out at her and, you know, plays the blame game and says, if you're really my friend, then you would let me do this. Sonya knows better. Old school Maria obviously is not happy about this decision either, because she knows exactly what it means for in Russian aristocracy. And she finds out about an elopement that's going to go down. So she goes to tell Pierre about this elopement between Anatole and Natasha. And this is maybe my favorite moment in the entire show, question mark.

[1:01:41] Kyle: It's the best. It's the best part of the show. Grace McLean, just like another person who we want to see get awards. Please, please. She has so many colors to her voice where she goes from this like beautiful bird, like legato type performance to then just screaming and oh my gosh. It's perfect for the story and the character because she loves Natasha so much. And this is evident in the book. And if you watch Grace McLean talk about her characterization while she was playing it, she would cry in interviews when she'd talk about playing this character because she was like, she's so hurt by Natasha because she loves her so much. And she's like, she took her under her wing and she saw her as her little mini me and she feels stabbed in the back that Natasha is throwing away this opportunity that she thought this would be their fun summer of bonding. And Natasha turns it into this like, horrible trauma for Maria.

[1:02:44] Dana: And so you're absolutely right that those colors in Grace McLean's voice that she goes from like, you can hear the tender, when she does the, um, let her sleep, let her sleep. It's literally like, like there's this, she's going back and forth between like, fuck you, I hate you so much to like, you are so important to me and no one is allowed to hurt you within seconds during that section of the show. And one thing that I think is really important to know is that the reason why she finds out about it is because Sonia tells her and Sonia seeing Sonia alone, which is a lot, a lot of people that was their favorite song from the show. And Sonia isn't really involved in the story besides this moment, where even though Natasha is really cruel to her and shuts her down and basically says that you're my enemy forever, I hate you, literally says those words, she goes, you know, I'm going to do is risk because Sonia isn't a part of the family in the same way they've taken her under their wing.

She has a lot to risk. If it's between her word and Natasha's, by trying to save Natasha, she's risking losing her place in society, whereas Natasha, no matter what she does, can't really lose it in the same way.

[1:04:16] Kyle: Yeah, so Sonia's song and what Sonia's facing is, I love my friend so much that even though she's treating me like crap, and treating the family like crap, and being an entitled nepo baby, whereas I'm not a nepo baby, I could lose my standing in this community for doing this, I'm still going to risk it just out of how much I love my friend. And so that's how Maria finds out. And then Maria...

[1:04:30] Dana: It's important to note too, right after she says, you're my enemy, I hate you, Sonia, Natasha refuses Andre. She decides that she's not going to marry him.

[1:04:33] Kyle: That's really important. She writes...

[1:04:35] Dana: She fully writes the letter, yeah.

[1:04:41] Kyle: So when Sonia tells Maria, Maria goes to the call to Pierre, and like you said, she and Pierre have this amazing scene where she's like, squelching at Pierre to go do something about his brother-in-law, because you'll remember he's married to Helene and her sister, and go fix it. Go fix it for the family, please, Pierre. It's a desperate, she loves Pierre, he's always been good to the family, she didn't know who else to turn to. Please, just do something. Which is an important moment for Pierre, because he steps up, he steps, he's like, he has to do something instead of just reading and feeling sorry for himself.

[1:05:11] Jeremy: Exactly. And so he pays off Anatole, and he basically says, I don't really want anything to do with you, to Helene, meanwhile. But it isn't just he says these things and he pays them off, he goes into, because the bear, I believe, is the national animal of Russia, right? If it's not, it's definitely in Tolstoy's mind. Because it's throughout the book, there's allusions to the introduction of Pierre's character involves a prank that they play involving a bear, and he's constantly described as bear-like.

[1:05:46] Dana: And what happens here is when he has his awakening, he becomes basically a mama bear almost to Natasha, and he goes crazy. And it's in the music like, like when he's running through Moscow looking for Anatole at the clubs, and like, it's the blood rushes to his heart, it's difficult to breathe. And then when he finds Anatole, he gets him alone in a room, and he basically threatens to kill him just by showing him the impact of his power and how he's this big, strong man that's just been sitting and brooding alone.

[1:06:31] Kyle: And he's tearing the room apart, and he's throwing Anatole around the room. And he's like, how dare you do this to this young girl, you monster. And then he has to, there's a moment in the music where it builds and builds and builds and builds. And then there's silence in the score for a moment. And Pierre decides to be the bigger person, and he calms down. And he decides to buy off Anatole and be diplomatic so he can help Natasha get through this without the family having a vendetta against her or against Pierre.

[1:07:02] Jeremy: Yeah, even bigger drama than they need to be. Of course, this has an effect on Natasha, because I mean, she was all in, right? She was all in on Anatole. And then to hear that he chose money over her, and without really even saying goodbye.

[1:07:16] Dana: Also that he was married the whole time.

[1:07:21] Kyle: Oh, because she didn't even know that, right? That's right. She does attempt to take her own life.

[1:07:27] Jeremy: Oh my gosh, I have just, there have been so many musicals that we've talked about this year with suicide attempts. It's crazy. And by taking arsenic, it only makes her ill, but very, very ill. And then it's kind of like this ending scene. That's the next big sequences between her and Pierre, right? Natasha and Pierre.

[1:07:45] Dana: Well, Andre comes home.

[1:07:52] Kyle: Oh, Andre does come home. Thank you. He gives Pierre his letters from Natasha, which was a thing back then. It's like, when people wrote, you know, it's like saving someone's texts and rereading them over and over again.

[1:08:02] Jeremy: Except that they're actually well written and use punctuation, but continue.

[1:08:05] ⚠ About 4 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.

[1:11:38] Kyle: It feels my softened and uplifted soul and my newly melted heart now blossoming into a new life.

[1:11:44] Jeremy: Which juxtaposes what other people see it as, as the end of the world.

[1:11:48] Dana: Yeah, everyone else sees it as me. He's like, to me, the comet brings no fear. I gaze joyfully.

[1:11:54] Kyle: That's fantastic.

[1:11:56] Jeremy: Yeah. And then can you, because it was such a, not since Phantom of the Opera has there been a more famous chandelier than the comet in this show. But can you describe a little bit about how it was staged to the ending of this whole thing?

[1:12:11] Dana: It's what it's exactly going back to the first thing I said when we came on this podcast today, it's you, it was like I had to such a had to be there thing because it was so simple. But the cast just gathered around as the comet was lowered, not like not all the way. Yeah, no, but just a little and then all the lights in the space began to glow and get brighter.

[1:12:44] Kyle: And that combined with the orchestration and the cast all having you've now met all these people, you've gone on this journey with them. Everyone is staring at the comet and having their own private experience, private internal experience that you couldn't guess if you tried, but you can see it happening as they experience Tolstoy's sort of brand of transcendence with nature, with God, if you want to call it that, with spirituality and with yourself. And before the comet finally goes out and the show comes, of course, to black, and it's the end of the show.

[1:13:21] Jeremy: It's very kind of, it felt alien, like in a way, it felt like kind of 2001 space.

[1:13:25] Dana: I was just gonna say 2001 with the obelisk or whatever.

[1:13:29] Kyle: Yeah. And I felt this way when I saw Octet too, but very much just like I'd left, come out of church in the ideal setting, in the best way, yes. Where I had this beautiful transcendent soul, my soul felt larger because I'd experienced this kind of feeling.

[1:13:49] Jeremy: Hot dang, theater. Oh, that's good stuff. I wish I could have seen it. That's a regret.

[1:13:55] Dana: That's a regret. But I was hoping that it would come to LA, you know?

[1:14:01] Kyle: Yeah.

[1:14:02] Dana: Because a lot of things will, even if they don't do a national tour, they'll still do like a big West Coast production, but it never happened.

[1:14:11] Jeremy: Someday the three of us will produce a really low budget production for a few days.

[1:14:16] Kyle: Fantastic.

[1:14:17] Dana: And hopefully it'll be possible for you to see it.

[1:14:22] Jeremy: That sounds incredible. Any excuse to come to Chicago.

[1:14:27] Jeff: Thank you to all three of you so much for sitting down and doing this with me today. I feel, I know we didn't actually see the show, but I do feel a little bit like I've left church in the best way. So thank you for sharing and for all that you're creating. Go team.

[1:14:46] Kyle: Thank you.

[1:14:47] Jeff: As always, if you have recommendations for shows we cover on A Musical Theatre Podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast@gmail.com. Don't forget to follow us on social media. We're on Instagram. We're on TikTok. We're on X. We also have Patreon exclamation point, where for only $1 a month, you get bonus content. Plus you get to support the show. And don't forget to check out our new designs on our TeePublic store, the profits from which we donate to Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS. More than anything, know that I love having you here in our great podcasting community. Hey, you three, tell us how we follow you and access everything you're up to.

[1:15:24] Kyle: So you can head to, the best way is to head to actoffaithshow.com, where the, right when you get to the website will be a banner that says watch the show. And then all these little buttons that are all the different platforms. Click one of, you find the platform that you want to watch it on, you click it. There's free ways to watch it, like Tubi, for example, you don't even need an account. Then if you want to, yeah, if you want to watch it ad free, you can buy it on Amazon Prime for $5.99. And then if you're feeling experimental, there's all these little weird platforms that took our show too. So it's on there. And then if you keep scrolling, you'll see stream the album because we, the show's a musical.

There's at least one, if not more original songs in every episode of season one. So there is an album, you can stream that. Again, there's a button with an Apple for Apple music, a button with the Spotify logo. And you can stream it on wherever you stream music, you can find the Active Faith album. But the best place to go is actoffaithshow.com because when you try to search our show, the traditional way on a lot of these platforms, because it's so indie, it might not come up. So it's more convenient and easier to find if you just go directly to the website.

[1:16:34] Jeremy: The other thing is the Instagram. It really helps us when we're trying to get funding or trying to get help for our second season. It's shallow, but it really helps us when we have Instagram followers.

[1:16:41] Dana: So if you want to help us out in that way, you can, but obviously no pressure.

[1:16:50] Jeff: And what's the handle?

[1:16:51] Kyle: And oh, it's activefaithshow as well. So actoffaithshow.com.

[1:16:54] Dana: Existency, love it.

[1:16:55] Kyle: Yeah, exactly. Or the activefaithshow Instagram.

[1:16:58] Jeff: Thank you three again. And everybody out there, thank you for listening. Remember, what should our tagline be?

[1:17:06] Jeremy: Colleen is a slut.

[1:17:07] Dana: Colleen is a slut.

[1:17:10] Kyle: And we're not slut-shaming. That's her word.

[1:17:14] Dana: Oh, that's her word.

[1:17:17] Jeremy: Amazing.