This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: This episode is dedicated to Marsha Kramer, a talented actor and friend who starred as Wendy in the 1979 revival of Peter Pan, and who passed away last week at the age of 74.

[0:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We will all miss Marsha's compassionate heart, fierce loyalty, and sparkly blue eyes. Marsha, say hi to Neverland for us.

[0:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of our favorite shows in musical theater history.

[0:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Hi, Katie DeShan.

[0:49] Katie DeShan: Hi, Jeff.

[0:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Katie, you're here with me. And we're going to discuss Peter Pan today.

[0:53] Katie DeShan: Yay!

[0:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which I'm actually very excited about because last week was Frozen.

[0:58] Katie DeShan: Oh, yeah.

[0:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And yeah, with Bruce. So we're discussing a family friendly musical again.

[1:04] Katie DeShan: It's family time.

[1:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: However, during the Frozen episode, I talked about how I didn't really think it was a show crying out to be a stage adaptation.

[1:13] Katie DeShan: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And with Peter Pan, I feel like this is a great example of a show that makes for a perfect stage adaptation, more or less because it was originally a play.

[1:26] Katie DeShan: I was going to say, wasn't it originally?

[1:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, even before it was a book or a novel, it was a play.

[1:31] Katie DeShan: I feel smart that I knew that.

[1:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because you are. You're very intelligent, Katie.

[1:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We also have a very coincidental connection to this show.

[1:43] Katie DeShan: Was this your first musical?

[1:45] Katie DeShan: It was like one of my second or third musicals.

[1:48] Katie DeShan: First was Annie because, well, I was a child, a female child.

[1:54] Katie DeShan: I think it was like my second or third musical and I did it in ninety five.

[2:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And what did you who were you in the show?

[2:03] Katie DeShan: So I was the Michael understudy, but I was there all the time because my dad was in it.

[2:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, so they were like, do you want to just be a lost boy as well?

[2:13] Katie DeShan: And I was like, yeah. So all the lost boys were like local high school boys and then me.

[2:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[2:19] Katie DeShan: So I was very lucky and was one of the guys and they would all carry me around and it was really fun.

[2:25] Katie DeShan: And my dad was Captain. No, my dad was not Captain Hook. He was Mr. Darling, but didn't play Captain Hook.

[2:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, OK.

[2:31] Katie DeShan: They deviated.

[2:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure. The tradition.

[2:33] Katie DeShan: Yeah, but it was really fun.

[2:35] Katie DeShan: And my sister and my mom were always there at the Grove Theater in Upland.

[2:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, Southern California.

[2:41] Katie DeShan: Southern California.

[2:43] Katie DeShan: Community theater, bringing families together.

[2:45] Katie DeShan: We loved doing things as a family.

[2:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really? That's so cute.

[2:48] Katie DeShan: Yeah.

[2:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What else did you guys do together? Now I'm interested.

[2:50] Katie DeShan: We did Music Man. I was the Winthrop understudy.

[2:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: OK.

[2:57] Katie DeShan: So.

[2:59] Katie DeShan: You really crafted a career for yourself.

[3:01] Katie DeShan: I crafted it as the little boy understudy as a six and seven year old girl.

[3:06] Katie DeShan: All four of us were in that.

[3:08] Katie DeShan: And then my sister and my dad did Barnum together, which was amazing.

[3:13] Katie DeShan: We did Fiddler on the Roof together.

[3:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Naturally.

[3:16] Katie DeShan: Maybe the Deschamps shouldn't have done, but we were pretty.

[3:19] Katie DeShan: We were pretty hilarious.

[3:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What else? Oliver?

[3:22] Katie DeShan: Oh, my heavens.

[3:23] Katie DeShan: You guys.

[3:24] Katie DeShan: We were the Sour Berries.

[3:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The Lunts of Upland.

[3:29] Katie DeShan: Yeah, we had a lot of fun.

[3:31] Katie DeShan: I think at some point, and I'm not sure what the order of operations here is with my childhood,

[3:37] Katie DeShan: but at some point my family started doing community theater together.

[3:41] Katie DeShan: And I think it was either because my parents realized that if they wanted to spend time with me,

[3:46] Katie DeShan: they needed to participate or because the people in the community realized that if I was in the show,

[3:53] Katie DeShan: they could get my mom to play the piano and my dad to play an adult, which is very difficult to track down.

[3:57] Katie DeShan: Either way, it was family fun time.

[4:00] Katie DeShan: And I'm really grateful for those memories.

[4:02] Katie DeShan: It was fun because both my parents did theater in college, but knew they weren't going to try and pursue it as careers.

[4:09] Katie DeShan: And they were both teachers, so they would have nights off, quote, unquote, because teachers never have time off because they're amazing.

[4:15] Katie DeShan: And so that was kind of our family fun time thing that we did.

[4:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like play.

[4:19] Katie DeShan: Yeah, and we really enjoyed it.

[4:21] Katie DeShan: And my parents would allow me to have the Friday before opening night off from school.

[4:26] Katie DeShan: So I was like, all right, everyone, bye.

[4:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What a great tradition.

[4:30] Katie DeShan: I know, because I'd be tired from tech.

[4:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Your mental health day.

[4:33] Katie DeShan: Yeah, well, I mean, we would stay there until like 11 p.m.

[4:36] Katie DeShan: And for me now, as a 30 something year old, I'm like, I need to go to bed at 10.

[4:41] Katie DeShan: So, no, as an adult, I get to 10, like after 10 p.m. at rehearsals and my brain shuts down.

[4:48] Katie DeShan: I'm like, don't teach me anything new.

[4:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The Friday off before you open. Do you always take the Friday off?

[4:54] Katie DeShan: Never as an adult.

[4:55] Katie DeShan: We never get days off before opening.

[4:57] Katie DeShan: Are you kidding me?

[4:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: If only.

[4:59] Katie DeShan: I know.

[5:00] Katie DeShan: My first experience with Peter Pan was my first musical.

[5:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It was your first.

[5:05] Katie DeShan: Period.

[5:06] Katie DeShan: I was in fifth grade and I, too, played Michael.

[5:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, you played Michael.

[5:12] Katie DeShan: I understudied Michael.

[5:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Did you ever get to go on, by the way?

[5:15] Katie DeShan: I did.

[5:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: See?

[5:17] Katie DeShan: Multiple times.

[5:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You played Michael.

[5:19] Katie DeShan: That's the rule.

[5:20] Katie DeShan: I played it, I mean, probably like four or five times.

[5:22] Katie DeShan: But I remember getting a call one day after school and they were like, Katie's on for Michael tonight.

[5:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And yes, seven years old.

[5:29] Katie DeShan: Yeah.

[5:30] Katie DeShan: However old.

[5:31] Katie DeShan: That's how I felt, though.

[5:32] Katie DeShan: It was somehow my first musical and yet I was attached to the industry enough to know that by being cast in the high school production of Peter Pan.

[5:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, you were in the high school production.

[5:46] Katie DeShan: As an elementary school kid, I had made it.

[5:50] Katie DeShan: That is it.

[5:51] Katie DeShan: That's the pinnacle right there.

[5:53] Katie DeShan: It was the pinnacle.

[5:54] Katie DeShan: And I still remember how the high school auditorium smelled.

[5:57] Katie DeShan: Like not because I later went to that high school.

[6:00] Katie DeShan: But when I think of that smell, I still think back to when I was in fifth grade, not to when I was in high school.

[6:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh.

[6:07] Katie DeShan: The other fun thing is all of the elementary schools in the district came to see the production.

[6:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So were you a celebrity?

[6:16] Katie DeShan: So my elementary school got to come see me fly.

[6:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I was going to ask. Did you fly?

[6:24] Katie DeShan: Yes.

[6:25] Katie DeShan: It was the best.

[6:26] Katie DeShan: And so magical with my teddy bear.

[6:29] Katie DeShan: Yeah, I used my own teddy bear.

[6:31] Katie DeShan: And your own pajamas.

[6:32] Katie DeShan: And my own pajamas.

[6:33] Katie DeShan: I feel like my mom knew they were doing Peter Pan and was like, all right, Katie's probably going to be the understudy.

[6:39] Katie DeShan: So she bought me a pair. We're going to get you footie pajamas just in case.

[6:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She was ready.

[6:45] Katie DeShan: I think as a joke, she brought my dad's a photo of my dad as a child to the audition because I look just like my dad.

[6:52] Katie DeShan: So me as a little boy, quote unquote, I guess looks like my dad.

[6:55] Katie DeShan: And she thought that was so funny.

[6:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh.

[6:58] Katie DeShan: It kind of was.

[6:59] Katie DeShan: Good job, Peggy.

[7:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And now I'm like, is she going to listen to this?

[7:03] Katie DeShan: I hope so.

[7:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So all your friends got to see you fly. Were they jealous?

[7:06] Katie DeShan: I mean, it wasn't about that for me.

[7:10] Katie DeShan: But I do.

[7:12] Katie DeShan: It was such a thrill.

[7:14] Katie DeShan: And then, like, you know, I'm riding high, fire burning bright.

[7:19] Katie DeShan: And I remember my fifth grade teacher pulling me aside.

[7:23] Katie DeShan: And I'm not going to I'm not going to say his name.

[7:25] Katie DeShan: But he pulled me aside and said, no, I minored in theater and in college.

[7:32] Katie DeShan: Did you know that?

[7:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I said, no, I didn't.

[7:35] Katie DeShan: And he said, and I also played the Tin Man and the Wizard of Oz at that college.

[7:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I was like, oh, that's cool.

[7:42] Katie DeShan: And then he proceeded to tell me to not go into theater because it's the business is really tough.

[7:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Who is he?

[7:50] Katie DeShan: And it was my first show.

[7:52] Katie DeShan: And I'm in fifth grade.

[7:53] Katie DeShan: But even then, I remember thinking this guy is full of it.

[7:58] Katie DeShan: Bleep his name out quick.

[7:59] Katie DeShan: Say it, Mr.

[8:01] Katie DeShan: Not Mr.

[8:04] Katie DeShan: Who is, I believe, later fired for inappropriate things.

[8:09] Katie DeShan: Cut it out.

[8:12] Katie DeShan: Allegedly like and his name was Daniel Day Lewis.

[8:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And here he is today.

[8:21] Katie DeShan: But I understand that he was. I don't know. Maybe. No, I don't understand.

[8:24] Katie DeShan: I don't understand what he was trying to tell me.

[8:28] Katie DeShan: Like, what was he trying to do?

[8:29] Katie DeShan: Save me excited.

[8:31] Katie DeShan: But from then on, I learned that what I was doing in the theater tended to make adults feel uncomfortable.

[8:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: How what a weird thing.

[8:40] Katie DeShan: And so from then on, whenever I met with a counselor, I would 100 percent lie as to what my life goals were.

[8:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because you were scared of them.

[8:49] Katie DeShan: I wasn't scared.

[8:50] Katie DeShan: I was just done.

[8:51] Katie DeShan: I was just like, they don't understand it.

[8:53] Katie DeShan: And my family knew that my family was very supportive and also just knew that I found my tribe.

[9:00] Katie DeShan: You know.

[9:01] Katie DeShan: And so I sat down with my mom before the SOPs or, you know, all of the little parent teacher conferences.

[9:08] Katie DeShan: And I'm like, all right, I'm just going to say that I'm going to go into business and get an MBA.

[9:13] Katie DeShan: And you and I both know what I want to do.

[9:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[9:16] Katie DeShan: She'd be like, yeah.

[9:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[9:18] Katie DeShan: I mean, when did you know that?

[9:20] Katie DeShan: Around that time, I remember because the person I understudied, I had to be his understudy because he was on TV and film.

[9:29] Katie DeShan: And I was like, well, what's that like?

[9:31] Katie DeShan: So I told my mom, like, how can I be in TV and film?

[9:34] Katie DeShan: And she's like, well, you have to go to L.A.

[9:36] Katie DeShan: And I think you need an agent because my sweet mom was not a stage mom at all and just wanted us to be happy.

[9:42] Katie DeShan: And we had so much fun doing theater.

[9:44] Katie DeShan: So after that, the woman who ran the theater knew a lot of people in the biz in Los Angeles.

[9:50] Katie DeShan: So I went out and got headshots with my sister and my sister was kind of like just along for the ride.

[9:55] Katie DeShan: She was a little more quiet, a little more reserved and a beautiful dancer and now a beautiful mother.

[10:02] Katie DeShan: And so we did headshots and then I went to a couple of agency meetings.

[10:06] Katie DeShan: And because I was like six years old and could read pretty well and had done like three things in theater,

[10:12] Katie DeShan: it's so much easier when you're a kid because I feel like the criteria is like, OK, are you easy to work with? Can you read? Great.

[10:20] Katie DeShan: So I got an agent.

[10:21] Katie DeShan: Do you not look like a mongoloid on film?

[10:24] Katie DeShan: I mean, I feel like I do now.

[10:26] Katie DeShan: Back then, I mean, back then my teeth were terrible.

[10:29] Katie DeShan: But the minute I got braces and I was 13, my agent was like, oh, OK, see you later.

[10:35] Katie DeShan: We don't work with children.

[10:38] Katie DeShan: They tried to like Photoshop, like nicer teeth on my headshots when I was like 12.

[10:44] Katie DeShan: And it was terrifying.

[10:46] Katie DeShan: But so around that time, I was just like, oh, I like to perform.

[10:49] Katie DeShan: I really liked doing TV and film when I was little.

[10:52] Katie DeShan: But I loved doing theater, especially with my family.

[10:55] Katie DeShan: And yeah, I think around then it was this feeling of of like I had found my tribe as well.

[11:01] Katie DeShan: It was around that time that I really felt like you could be anything you wanted there and be accepted and just play make believe.

[11:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Isn't it amazing that Peter Pan offers that kind of imagination and creativity more so than almost any other show?

[11:16] Katie DeShan: And I think you can tell the story.

[11:18] Katie DeShan: And so there's been so many reincarnations of it.

[11:21] Katie DeShan: You know, we have Peter and the Starcatcher.

[11:23] Katie DeShan: We have the different musical theater versions.

[11:25] Katie DeShan: We have so many different movie versions.

[11:27] Katie DeShan: I was thinking about Hook recently because that is such a universal story that everyone can connect with.

[11:33] Katie DeShan: And you want to know more.

[11:34] Katie DeShan: You want to know Wendy's backstory, Tinkerbell's backstory, Hook's backstory.

[11:37] Katie DeShan: You get to know all of it.

[11:39] Katie DeShan: And it's magical regardless of what version it is, what incarnation.

[11:44] Katie DeShan: I think it's one of the best stories of all time, not just one of the most popular or famous stories, but just constructed.

[11:53] Katie DeShan: It's it's perfect.

[11:54] Katie DeShan: It's right up there with The Secret Garden.

[11:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yes.

[11:57] Katie DeShan: It's one of my favorites, too.

[11:59] Katie DeShan: But what's interesting is that they're all they all have child protagonists.

[12:03] Katie DeShan: And I think that that is the magic of children's literature or just storytelling, family friendly storytelling, is that when you have this point of view from a child, it works for everybody.

[12:18] Katie DeShan: And in an incredibly profound way, I'd say even Matilda's that way.

[12:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yes.

[12:23] Katie DeShan: I was going to say Little Princess is up there with me.

[12:25] Katie DeShan: Little Princess, yes.

[12:27] Katie DeShan: You know, Frances Hudson Burnett and Matilda.

[12:29] Katie DeShan: You know, the book is very dark, but I feel all these all of those stories and they were all written in very different time periods as well.

[12:37] Katie DeShan: But the the idea of being a child, but kind of being in charge of your own world, I think is so freeing.

[12:44] Katie DeShan: And I think all of those stories have that.

[12:46] Katie DeShan: But it's also a little scary to be in charge of your own world.

[12:49] Katie DeShan: Even in Peter Pan, he's he's in charge, but he still wants Wendy to be his mother.

[12:54] Katie DeShan: So he knows what the family structure is and wants to be independent, but still wants the idea of family.

[13:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I think there's something so beautiful about that.

[13:03] Katie DeShan: Absolutely.

[13:04] Katie DeShan: Barry, when he first wrote the play, which was like 1904.

[13:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my gosh.

[13:09] Katie DeShan: So he's writing this play about childhood psychology before it even existed.

[13:14] Katie DeShan: You know what I mean?

[13:15] Katie DeShan: Because of the things you're talking about, this fact that he's so independent and cocksure of himself and yet.

[13:21] Katie DeShan: Oh, which is interesting because he's always crowing.

[13:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, right.

[13:25] Katie DeShan: Like she says that he's kind of arrogant and conceited.

[13:28] Katie DeShan: And that's very connected to like Cockadoodledoo.

[13:31] Katie DeShan: You know, you have that.

[13:33] Katie DeShan: And then at the same time, really desperately wanting a mother to tell them stories.

[13:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[13:39] Katie DeShan: You know, like that dichotomy of childhood is really advanced storytelling based on where the science was at the time.

[13:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that's interesting.

[13:50] Katie DeShan: I never even thought about it like that.

[13:52] Katie DeShan: So he writes this.

[13:53] Katie DeShan: He writes the play in 1904.

[13:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 1904.

[13:56] Katie DeShan: Yeah.

[13:57] Katie DeShan: And obviously they didn't fly in the original production.

[14:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What?

[14:02] Katie DeShan: But we have come to expect a certain degree of spectacle from the show.

[14:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[14:08] Katie DeShan: Because of the flying and everything.

[14:09] Katie DeShan: But from the get go, when it was first conceived and performed, it was done so with practicality and imagination.

[14:17] Katie DeShan: So they didn't fly.

[14:20] Katie DeShan: But at the same time, they used really creative things to give the audience the sensation and allow them to connect to their inner child.

[14:29] Katie DeShan: And that really says a lot about the source material, that you could sit and watch and use your imagination and it's still just as magical as it would be now.

[14:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely.

[14:38] Jeff Parsons: I know that for Tinkerbell, they would, someone would stand off stage with a mirror.

[14:41] Katie DeShan: Oh, my goodness.

[14:44] Jeff Parsons: And you know, use the light bouncing off the mirror to create the little Tinkerbell on the stage.

[14:49] Katie DeShan: That is amazing. You know, stuff like this that I don't know, like I almost I think we almost take for granted because you can go see such amazing special effects in the theatre now.

[14:59] Jeff Parsons: That is what I loved about Peter and the Starcatcher when I saw it is everything was very practical and they had like hand puppets.

[15:04] Katie DeShan: And the black stash wasn't even a real like mustache. It was makeup or like black tar. It was very cool. And I think it now hearing more about the original production and original play it probably pays a lot of homage to that, which I think is really beautiful.

[15:22] Jeff Parsons: Absolutely. There's magic there to be found and enjoyed.

[15:25] Katie DeShan: Even in 2020.

[15:26] Jeff Parsons: Oh, for sure. So in 1954 is when the Broadway musical version is written that we're talking about today. It was directed and choreographed by Jerome Robbins.

[15:35] Katie DeShan: Now, if you've listened to the podcast, you know that my friend Jerry and I have a very interesting relationship where where I both worship him and also am terrified of the horrible human being that he was.

[15:50] Jeff Parsons: Oh, no. Is he going to get a like Fosse Verdon show some one of these days?

[15:55] Katie DeShan: Maybe.

[15:56] Jeff Parsons: Jerry?

[15:57] Katie DeShan: Jer.

[15:58] Jeff Parsons: Just Jer.

[15:59] Katie DeShan: Well, I mean, you've done West Side Story four thousand times.

[16:02] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[16:03] Katie DeShan: So, I mean, you are you know, Jerry, I love, you know, Jer. We'll just call him Jer. It just keeps getting shorter.

[16:08] Jeff Parsons: Who's that again?

[16:09] Katie DeShan: But he's also responsible for most of my favorite musicals, Gypsy, Fiddler on the Roof, West Side Story.

[16:20] Jeff Parsons: King and I for me.

[16:21] Katie DeShan: King and I.

[16:22] Jeff Parsons: And and he Peter Pan was the first musical on Broadway that he both directed and choreographed. He he had choreographed, obviously, you know, King and I and was a choreographer for a great deal of time before Peter Pan and had also co-directed a lot of productions.

[16:41] Katie DeShan: But from what I could find, this is like the first full directed and choreographed by Jerome Robbins.

[16:48] Jeff Parsons: I did not know that. And what's also fascinating is that this show has a Southern California origin story.

[16:54] Katie DeShan: Like us.

[16:55] Jeff Parsons: Right.

[16:56] Katie DeShan: Wait. No, you don't. You're not from Southern California.

[16:59] Jeff Parsons: No, I'm a Utah boy.

[17:00] Katie DeShan: I was going to say, like me.

[17:02] Jeff Parsons: It began rehearsing in Pasadena.

[17:05] Katie DeShan: Yeah.

[17:06] Jeff Parsons: Like the whole rehearsal process and everything happened in Pasadena. And then they opened in San Francisco at the Quran Theater.

[17:12] Katie DeShan: Oh, wow.

[17:13] Jeff Parsons: I did not know that. Before it ever went to New York. At this point, Mary Martin is a huge Broadway star, you know, having starred in South Pacific, among other things.

[17:23] Katie DeShan: So from the get go, this is a star vehicle for her.

[17:27] Jeff Parsons: She will be playing Peter. But it was following along in the tradition of women playing Peter.

[17:32] Katie DeShan: I love that.

[17:33] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. They also had Cyril.

[17:35] Katie DeShan: Cyril Richard.

[17:36] Jeff Parsons: Oh, man.

[17:37] Katie DeShan: He's so good.

[17:38] Jeff Parsons: Isn't he fantastic? There is when you go back and watch the old TV version of this musical, there is a lot of blue eyeshadow.

[17:45] Katie DeShan: Have you noticed?

[17:47] Jeff Parsons: Oh, blue eyeshadow. He has the mole.

[17:49] Katie DeShan: Yes, that mole. He's very handsome.

[17:51] Jeff Parsons: He's fantastic.

[17:52] Katie DeShan: He's so good. I love the scene where they do the like tango together with her as like the voice.

[17:59] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[18:00] Katie DeShan: Because I don't know that I've seen that in any other production. But I love that part.

[18:04] Jeff Parsons: That part gets cut in every other.

[18:05] Katie DeShan: But it's so fun.

[18:06] Jeff Parsons: It is fun. And it's a little strange because it's like Peter's just there under a sheet.

[18:13] Katie DeShan: Who is that?

[18:14] Jeff Parsons: Mysterious Lady.

[18:15] Katie DeShan: What?

[18:16] Jeff Parsons: Oh, that's what it is.

[18:17] Katie DeShan: Mysterious Lady. I was like, what is it called?

[18:19] Jeff Parsons: Oh, Mysterious Lady. But Cyril, which I mean, I'm just obsessed that his name is Cyril, Cyril was Australian and won a Tony Award for Best Featured Actor for this, for Captain Hook.

[18:33] Katie DeShan: Mary Martin won for Peter Pan.

[18:36] Jeff Parsons: And these roles were some of their most famous from here on out.

[18:41] Katie DeShan: OK, so they have their stars. They're rehearsing in Pasadena.

[18:46] Jeff Parsons: Go figure. The music is written by Moose Charlap is his name.

[18:52] Katie DeShan: His real name is Mark, but he goes by Moose.

[18:54] Jeff Parsons: Same.

[18:55] Katie DeShan: And the lyrics are by Carolyn Lee.

[18:58] Jeff Parsons: I love that it's a female lyricist.

[19:00] Katie DeShan: Yeah, because I feel like even nowadays, that's not super common.

[19:04] Jeff Parsons: Not super common.

[19:05] Katie DeShan: Yeah. And she had other hits as well, like Little Me. But they write most of the score. You know, they're in rehearsals. Jerome Robbins feels like the show isn't there yet, that there's stuff missing.

[19:18] Jeff Parsons: So he calls Julie Stein, who later wrote Gypsy and Funny Girl.

[19:24] Katie DeShan: They had worked together on this musical called High Button Shoes.

[19:28] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[19:29] Katie DeShan: And he asked Julie, male, to write some more songs, some supplementary material.

[19:34] Jeff Parsons: So then the score kind of becomes an amalgamation of the score that Moose wrote and the score that Julie wrote with Comden and Green, Adolph Green and Betty Comden, another female lyricist.

[19:46] Katie DeShan: They wrote On the Town, wrote the screenplay for Singin' in the Rain.

[19:50] Jeff Parsons: So they both write scores. And as we talk about the show, we'll talk about who wrote what song.

[19:56] Katie DeShan: We should play a game.

[19:57] Jeff Parsons: Who wrote this?

[19:59] Katie DeShan: Once you get the idea, you're like, oh, I see where the holes were in the show.

[20:03] Jeff Parsons: And I'm sure that Jerome, Jerry, I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure was like, I mean, we need something here.

[20:11] Katie DeShan: Although I don't know why he didn't just ask Moose to.

[20:13] Jeff Parsons: I mean, come on, Moose.

[20:15] Katie DeShan: Because Moose writes some great songs for this show.

[20:17] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. This is his big hit. I was reading about him the other night and I said, OK, this is this was kind of it for him.

[20:24] Katie DeShan: But I mean, if you have one big hit, this is the hit.

[20:28] Jeff Parsons: This is fantastic. And it's not to say that he didn't write great songs for other shows that were just less successful.

[20:35] Katie DeShan: But my favorite of his is Whoop Up!

[20:38] Jeff Parsons: Exclamation points.

[20:39] Katie DeShan: Is that a song?

[20:41] Jeff Parsons: It's a name of a musical.

[20:42] Katie DeShan: Whoop Up?

[20:43] Jeff Parsons: Whoop Up!

[20:44] Katie DeShan: I can't wait for that episode.

[20:45] Jeff Parsons: Who are you going to interview for that?

[20:48] Katie DeShan: Someone off the street.

[20:49] Jeff Parsons: An entire episode.

[20:50] Katie DeShan: Whoop Up! Excuse me, sir. Would you like to talk about this musical, Whoop Up?

[20:55] Jeff Parsons: No!

[20:56] Katie DeShan: I'm late for work.

[21:00] Jeff Parsons: So it premieres in San Francisco and then it transfers to Broadway.

[21:03] Katie DeShan: The Broadway.

[21:04] Jeff Parsons: The Broadway in New York City. It has a limited engagement of only like 150 performances.

[21:10] Katie DeShan: I didn't think they did that back then.

[21:12] Jeff Parsons: That's all the rage these days.

[21:14] Katie DeShan: It is.

[21:15] Jeff Parsons: The celebrities.

[21:16] Katie DeShan: Right.

[21:17] Jeff Parsons: Because they can only afford to give us as much of their time.

[21:19] Katie DeShan: But they do 150 shows because they were contracted to film it.

[21:26] Jeff Parsons: Oh.

[21:27] Katie DeShan: For television.

[21:28] Jeff Parsons: I feel like that is all such modern stuff.

[21:30] Katie DeShan: It is.

[21:31] Jeff Parsons: Which I love. And here's the crazy thing. This is what blew my mind. Are you ready for this?

[21:35] Katie DeShan: I'm already sitting, so.

[21:37] Jeff Parsons: The television adaptation of Cinderella, the Rodgers and Hammerstein TV Cinderella, was after Peter Pan.

[21:43] Katie DeShan: Wait, the Leslie Ann Warren one?

[21:47] Jeff Parsons: No, the Julie Andrews one.

[21:48] Katie DeShan: The Julie Andrews one. I was like, I know the Leslie Ann Warren one was.

[21:51] Jeff Parsons: The Julie Andrews Cinderella was after this?

[21:54] Katie DeShan: Yes.

[21:55] Jeff Parsons: Literally.

[21:56] Katie DeShan: I thought that one was so.

[21:57] Jeff Parsons: I thought that one was.

[21:59] Katie DeShan: I thought it was for sure the first.

[22:01] Jeff Parsons: First.

[22:02] Katie DeShan: Because the clips I've seen look older.

[22:04] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[22:05] Katie DeShan: You know.

[22:06] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. But the thing is, is that genius Jerome Robbins, somehow bringing musicals to television.

[22:14] Katie DeShan: Like that's a pioneer, you know?

[22:17] Jeff Parsons: And it was pretty cinematic for what it was, I would say.

[22:21] Katie DeShan: Right.

[22:22] Jeff Parsons: They recorded it twice.

[22:23] Katie DeShan: Both of those recordings are lost and gone.

[22:27] Jeff Parsons: So, because I thought the one with Mary Martin was filmed in the early 60s.

[22:30] Katie DeShan: It is.

[22:31] Jeff Parsons: That's oh, so they in the 50s, so around 55?

[22:34] Katie DeShan: 55, 55, 56.

[22:35] Jeff Parsons: And they didn't keep those, but then they brought the cast back.

[22:39] Katie DeShan: And it was the exact same cast for the first two times that they filmed it.

[22:43] Jeff Parsons: Then by the time they film it again for, you know, in the 60s, they had to get new kids, I believe, because they had grown up.

[22:51] Katie DeShan: But other than that, it was still pretty much the same cast.

[22:54] Jeff Parsons: And then that was the one that they kept and would, you know, play throughout the years.

[23:01] Katie DeShan: I mean, there would be big chunks of time when it wasn't seen, but then they would find it and some television exec would be like, hey, let's put this on.

[23:08] Jeff Parsons: Let's throw it on.

[23:09] Katie DeShan: And more people would see it and more people would see it.

[23:11] Jeff Parsons: And you said that you watched it a gajillion times.

[23:13] Katie DeShan: I watched it so much. We had a VHS copy of it, so I don't know where it originated from.

[23:19] Jeff Parsons: I'm sure my parents grew up watching it, but we had a VHS of it and we loved it.

[23:24] Katie DeShan: My sister and I loved it so much. We would sing to it. We would dress up. She was always Wendy. I was everyone else.

[23:31] Jeff Parsons: But yeah, we had like every nightgown I owned was my Wendy nightie because I loved Peter Pan so much.

[23:39] Katie DeShan: I loved it.

[23:40] Jeff Parsons: That's fantastic. There have been revivals of it since in terms of stage as well as the ones preserved on, you know, video.

[23:48] Katie DeShan: I mean, there were so many productions with Sandy Duncan, but I love Sandy Duncan.

[23:51] Jeff Parsons: I do, too.

[23:52] Katie DeShan: I saw her do it at the Schubert.

[23:53] Jeff Parsons: Did you?

[23:54] Katie DeShan: When I was a kid?

[23:55] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, she's kind of magical.

[23:56] Katie DeShan: Do you remember that Pinocchio musical that was on TV?

[24:00] Jeff Parsons: Wait.

[24:01] Katie DeShan: Oh, my gosh.

[24:02] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[24:03] Katie DeShan: There are these types of titles that when we talk about them, it opens this place in my brain that I forgot even existed.

[24:10] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[24:11] Katie DeShan: I'm trying to remember. We had a VHS of it because I loved Pinocchio as a child, too.

[24:16] Jeff Parsons: And she played Pinocchio.

[24:17] Katie DeShan: And I just remember her, like, walking with her elbows up.

[24:21] Jeff Parsons: She was feisty.

[24:22] Katie DeShan: A little stretch.

[24:23] Jeff Parsons: That was Sandy Duncan.

[24:24] Katie DeShan: Yeah.

[24:25] Jeff Parsons: So she took over as Roxy Hart in the revival of Chicago at some point, like the ninety seven one.

[24:30] Katie DeShan: Yeah.

[24:31] Jeff Parsons: And I've heard that her Roxy is one of the best Roxy's I believe people have ever seen.

[24:37] Katie DeShan: Phenomenal.

[24:38] Jeff Parsons: I'm like blown away by that Pinocchio now and I really like want to go YouTube it because you can find all that stuff on YouTube.

[24:43] Katie DeShan: I know.

[24:44] Jeff Parsons: I'm so grateful.

[24:46] Katie DeShan: Hey, everybody. Let me talk to you about Musical Theater Guild.

[24:49] Jeff Parsons: This is a nonprofit theater company located in Los Angeles that is basically a paradise for musical theater nerds.

[24:54] Katie DeShan: It's celebrating its 24th season at the Alex Theater in Glendale, California. And if you haven't been to one of these one night only events, you're missing out.

[25:05] Jeff Parsons: Musical Theater Guild, also known as MTG, presents rarely staged or forgotten Broadway musicals in a semi staged script in hand concert format that is always far more impressive than it deserves to be, seeing that they only have about 25 hours to put them on.

[25:19] Katie DeShan: They utilize professional union actors and a live orchestra.

[25:23] Jeff Parsons: The next show is from Broadway's 2015 season.

[25:28] Katie DeShan: It's a show called It Should Have Been You.

[25:29] Jeff Parsons: Have you ever listened to this thing?

[25:31] Katie DeShan: It's adorable.

[25:32] Jeff Parsons: Here's the story.

[25:33] Katie DeShan: The bride is Jewish. The groom is Catholic. Her mother is a force of nature. His mother is a tempest and a cocktail shaker.

[25:40] Jeff Parsons: It says it's one of the funniest musicals of the decade.

[25:42] Katie DeShan: I haven't seen it, so I don't know.

[25:44] Jeff Parsons: But I'm going to take the copy's word for it.

[25:46] Katie DeShan: And if you've ever listened to the cast album, it's freaking cute.

[25:51] Jeff Parsons: Let's all go see it, shall we?

[25:53] Katie DeShan: This musical is nominated for six Outer Critics Circle Awards, three Drama League Awards, and three Drama Desk Awards.

[26:00] Jeff Parsons: It's starred Tyne Daly.

[26:01] Katie DeShan: So come and see some fantastic actors do it on Sunday, February 16th at 7pm at the Alex Theater in Glendale, California.

[26:10] Jeff Parsons: For tickets, please visit the Alex Theater's website, www.alextheater.org.

[26:18] Katie DeShan: Or call, if you still use your phone, 818-243-2539, and you know where to find out more information about MTG, visit musicaltheaterguild.com.

[26:32] Katie DeShan: And then Kathy Rigby has kind of become the Peter Pan.

[26:37] Jeff Parsons: I feel like she's like the 80s, 90s Peter Pan.

[26:40] Katie DeShan: Well, I saw Sandy Duncan do it in the 90s as well, so I feel like they kind of crossed over.

[26:45] Jeff Parsons: But I feel like every few decades we get a new, we had Mary Martin, then we had Sandy Duncan, now we have Kathy Rigby, and she's like passing on the torch, hopefully revive it again.

[26:54] Katie DeShan: I remember seeing the Kathy Rigby version and being like, everyone is flying so fast now.

[27:01] Jeff Parsons: It's insane.

[27:02] Katie DeShan: And they've performed that version with Kathy Rigby all over the world.

[27:08] Jeff Parsons: The same version actually just got back from performing in Saudi Arabia as the first ever Western Broadway musical to go there.

[27:15] Katie DeShan: Kathy Rigby was not in it, but it was their production.

[27:18] Jeff Parsons: And I had friends do it.

[27:19] Katie DeShan: And how amazing.

[27:21] Jeff Parsons: And that just shows how universal the story is as well, that the people out there got to see it.

[27:25] Katie DeShan: And they said children were in the aisles dancing, and it was really wonderful.

[27:30] Jeff Parsons: And the technicians there learned a lot about the technology used to fly and stagecraft in general.

[27:35] Katie DeShan: I mean, what a huge musical for them to be sent like, okay, we're bringing our first, you know, Western Broadway musical and it's Peter Pan and we're gonna bring ZFX in and everyone's flying.

[27:39] Jeff Parsons: Right.

[27:45] Katie DeShan: And we have bodies flying through the air.

[27:46] Jeff Parsons: Right.

[27:47] Katie DeShan: What about Oklahoma?

[27:49] Jeff Parsons: That's so exciting.

[27:50] Katie DeShan: It's so amazing.

[27:51] Jeff Parsons: All right, let's talk about the story, shall we?

[27:55] Katie DeShan: Yeah.

[27:56] Jeff Parsons: Excuse me. The story begins in the nursery of the Darlings.

[28:05] Katie DeShan: And we meet Wendy, Moira, Angela Darling, and her little brothers, John and Michael the youngest.

[28:13] Jeff Parsons: They just get one name.

[28:15] Katie DeShan: Right.

[28:16] Jeff Parsons: Rude.

[28:17] Katie DeShan: That's true. They are siblings that are playing at being adults.

[28:24] Jeff Parsons: Right from the get go. One of our first things that we see are these kids pretending to waltz and be adults.

[28:30] Katie DeShan: And then the top hat becomes like the through line for John, which I love because I feel like his character is around 13, 14, which is right when you're deciding and figuring things out.

[28:39] Jeff Parsons: Back then when you were 14, it was like, get a job.

[28:42] Katie DeShan: Yes.

[28:43] Jeff Parsons: Step up. Time to be the man of the house.

[28:45] Katie DeShan: I love that. That that's like his through line. We also meet Nana, who is the dog and has always been played by just the biggest, poofiest costume you've ever seen.

[28:54] Jeff Parsons: Someone on their knees.

[28:56] Katie DeShan: Yeah, exactly. Somebody destroying their knees.

[29:01] Jeff Parsons: But it's so sweet. And once again, it's establishing right from the get go. We have animals in this show.

[29:07] Katie DeShan: Also, it's larger than life.

[29:08] Jeff Parsons: Exactly. So you're in already in a world of make believe, even though it's a nursery in London and very practical. But you have this dog who is.

[29:16] Katie DeShan: Enormous huge because it's a person. It looks like a Muppet. Yeah, right, right. You're totally right like Snuffleupagus or something.

[29:23] Jeff Parsons: You also have Liza who is the maid?

[29:27] Katie DeShan: She's not she seems like she's maybe not the nanny. She can't be bothered with those children.

[29:33] Jeff Parsons: And it seems like they have two different responsibilities.

[29:36] Katie DeShan: Like Liza's responsible for the household, but Nana the dog is responsible for the children.

[29:41] Jeff Parsons: At which point Mrs. Darling, the mom, comes in and she's like children. Oh, you're so lovely playing your grown-up games. I'll play with you and I'm totally willing to dive into all the symbolism because I think J.M. Barrie has all of the symbolism in there.

[30:00] Katie DeShan: So I think it's worth looking into. I wonder if she in a way is an example for the audience to be like play with these kids, right? Even though an elegant woman who is going out for the evening can still like let loose a little and, you know, play with her children.

[30:18] Jeff Parsons: And I think also the big thing there is Wendy's about to grow up.

[30:21] Katie DeShan: So right she wants to like enjoy and cherish that moment with her one daughter.

[30:27] Jeff Parsons: That is beautiful. Enter Mr. Darling. Can't be bothered who is blustery. I will not bless her heart. She has to tie a bowtie like that's impressive.

[30:45] Katie DeShan: All right, it's always mother and father, mother. They're going out on the town. The children are getting ready to go to bed. The dog helps them out and the dad says why do we have a dog as a nurse? I'm not sure that he just noticed, right?

[31:01] Jeff Parsons: And the mother goes no we have to keep Nana and the reason why is because as I was telling the kids the story I noticed somebody like a face looking in the window terrifying also.

[31:16] Katie DeShan: Okie yikes, so they go to bed. They're singing their tender shepherd in the round.

[31:22] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, how many times did I force my family to do that with me? So great that one is written by Moose. Good job, Moose. Okay, so now I understand.

[31:32] Katie DeShan: Yes.

[31:33] Jeff Parsons: Mr. and Mrs. Darling leave. Mr. Darling changes into Captain Hook unless you're Ken to Sean and then you play he played the one that died first.

[31:43] Katie DeShan: He went all out. He blacked out his teeth when he was a pirate. He loved a good teeth blackout.

[31:48] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, so then he had to take all that off and be Mr. Darling again.

[31:52] Katie DeShan: Yeah, so it works either way.

[31:52] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, the parents leave, they're asleep, the windows fly open and Peter Pan in the form of a beautiful woman comes flying through the window and talk about like star entrance. It is crouched down.

[32:11] Katie DeShan: Kathy Rigby had like glitter spewing from her hands. It's amazing.

[32:17] Jeff Parsons: It's pretty fancy. Have you seen the Peter Pan fail now?

[32:28] Katie DeShan: This is actually a great opportunity to talk about how this show is the best one for things to go wrong.

[32:34] Jeff Parsons: Really?

[32:34] Katie DeShan: Yes. It's amazing. I bet hilarious.

[32:39] Jeff Parsons: Yes, if you haven't seen Peter Pan fail on YouTube by all means go check it out because there are so many opportunities for things to go wrong in this show.

[32:46] Katie DeShan: Oh, do you know what? We're gonna actually pause right here because the beautiful thing about my experience with this show is that it was both my first show that I ever did and my first professional show I ever did. How cool is that, right?

[32:58] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, so I was I was a Peter understudy because we had a boy Peter Pan.

[33:04] Katie DeShan: Oh, when I did it, we had a boy Peter Pan. Yeah, I had a big old crush on him.

[33:09] Jeff Parsons: Oh, I'm sure.

[33:09] Katie DeShan: Yeah, and I was also a lost boy. I was one of the twins.

[33:14] Jeff Parsons: So my job for anybody who has done the show or knows about the flying, you have these, you know, wires attached to your back that lift you up into the air.

[33:24] Katie DeShan: Now when they're not attached to your back, they have to immediately be grounded by a weight or some sort or some sort of hook because if they don't they don't dangle they fly up into the system into the flight system.

[33:41] Jeff Parsons: Because it's all weight based.

[33:43] Katie DeShan: That's right. So if you for some reason let go or it's not grounded to something you have to stop the show, bring out a ladder or climb up and, you know, pull it back down again.

[33:53] Jeff Parsons: Fast forward to my very professional production where it was my job to unhook Wendy.

[33:57] Katie DeShan: Oh, did she have a one-point harness just in the arm?

[34:02] Jeff Parsons: Uh-huh, just for just for this one inch and she had a one point and so I unhook her and I'm supposed to very, you know, casually take it off stage so that nobody sees while other action is happening on stage.

[34:14] Katie DeShan: I'm walking across the stage with the wire and it gets stuck. It's like it's locked, something's happening and I'm so I'm like pulling on it and looking up seeing if something's wrong.

[34:27] Jeff Parsons: The guys who are on the rail and doing the actual flying are like, oh no, it's stuck.

[34:32] Katie DeShan: So they start jostling it up and down to see if they can do it and doing so it starts lifting me off the ground.

[34:39] Jeff Parsons: Oh my gosh, and all I'm thinking is you have no pressure, you can't let the show stop.

[34:44] Katie DeShan: So it's slowly lifting me off now. I don't have like I can barely touch the ground with my tippy tippy toes but there's no traction for me to pull it off at that point.

[35:01] Jeff Parsons: An ASM, an assistant stage manager from stage left runs on stage, grabs me around the waist and just yanks really hard.

[35:05] Katie DeShan: It finally comes loose and she drags me off like a vaudeville act.

[35:13] Jeff Parsons: Exactly.

[35:15] Katie DeShan: That's called Peter Pan rescue. I want to see that.

[35:19] Jeff Parsons: Oh my gosh, it was anyway, but this show has so many opportunities for that kind of buffoonery.

[35:24] Katie DeShan: I would love to get Kathy Rigby in a room and be like tell me about the worst.

[35:29] Jeff Parsons: Oh my gosh, I wonder if I know I don't I feel like I don't know any of those stories because they had that like locked in.

[35:34] Katie DeShan: Sure, sure, but when you are Peter Pan things better run like clockwork.

[35:39] Jeff Parsons: Okay, so Peter Pan flies in.

[35:43] Katie DeShan: Oh my gosh. Yeah, we got a long ways to go. So Peter Pan comes in and he's looking for his shadow with his friend Tinkerbell because his shadow has somehow detached itself from him.

[35:49] Jeff Parsons: They never really explain that.

[35:55] Katie DeShan: Yeah, but I mean, it's magic.

[35:55] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, so he finds his shadow which suspiciously looks like, you know, a black nylon from Walgreens and he decides he's gonna stick it on with soap because he's very sophisticated.

[36:08] Katie DeShan: He puts on the soap, it doesn't work right and starts crying which wakes up Wendy.

[36:13] Jeff Parsons: I should also mention before that when he gets the shadow out of the drawer where he finds it, he accidentally shuts Tink in the drawer. She is mad.

[36:23] Katie DeShan: Yeah, so Tinkerbell's locked in that drawer when Wendy wakes up and says boy. Why are you crying or if you're Maggie Smith?

[36:38] Jeff Parsons: Isn't it crazy that Maggie Smith has always been?

[36:43] Katie DeShan: She was well Hook was early 90s and I feel like I would have thought she was, yeah, I'm happy age.

[36:49] Jeff Parsons: I feel like they aged her but she was like, this is my age inside. So this will be fine.

[36:55] Katie DeShan: Yeah, she was young as Desdemona and then after that never again.

[37:00] Jeff Parsons: Never again.

[37:05] Katie DeShan: She did grow up prime of Miss Brody was already past her prime.

[37:08] Jeff Parsons: I...

[37:08] Katie DeShan: Wendy wakes up and asks him why he's crying and he says cuz I can't get my stupid shadow to stick on and she goes. Oh, you're so silly. I'm much more grown-up. I'll sew it on just so great.

[37:20] Jeff Parsons: Like all of this is very practical. It's so funny. So she sews on his shadow and when he stands up, da-da, there it is and he is so excited that he sings I got a crow.

[37:37] Katie DeShan: Okay, who wrote this Moose?

[37:42] Jeff Parsons: Okay. Yeah, so I mean to the first ones and right out the gate.

[37:49] Katie DeShan: Right out the gate. We got Moose.

[37:49] Jeff Parsons: After I got a crow, she's a little put off by his confidence.

[37:52] Katie DeShan: His brazen exactly, but he begins to kind of explain who he is and where he's from. He doesn't have a mom, he lives in a place called Neverland and then he sings a song about it, which is one of the most beautiful songs at any age.

[38:09] Jeff Parsons: Someone else written by Julie Stein.

[38:15] Katie DeShan: Okay.

[38:16] Jeff Parsons: Okay, there it is.

[38:18] Katie DeShan: Yeah, so I was gonna say tender shepherd and I got a crow seem like they have different writers, but no, right?

[38:25] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, cuz I was thinking tender shepherd and Neverland are along those lines of really sweet storybook songs and then I got a crow is like, well, we need a big Broadway number for Mary.

[38:37] Katie DeShan: Sure, sure, sure.

[38:37] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, the first one that we hear is Never Neverland which when Mary Martin sings Never Neverland and in the TV movie, she is like seated in crisscross applesauce time and sounds phenomenal.

[38:52] Katie DeShan: It's so simple and I have chills again. It's simple and it's beautiful and it's not even probably a half hour into the show.

[38:59] Jeff Parsons: Mm-hmm.

[39:03] Katie DeShan: You're already getting this beautiful Broadway ballad.

[39:06] Jeff Parsons: Mm-hmm.

[39:06] Katie DeShan: That's very true or just from there Wendy meets Tinkerbell because he realizes that he locked her in the drawer and like you said Tinkerbell is peeved.

[39:16] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, even more than that. She's a little jealous of Wendy.

[39:23] Katie DeShan: Yeah, cuz Tink is the girl in his life.

[39:30] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, he don't think he thinks of her like that.

[39:30] Katie DeShan: No story of all of our lives. Am I right?

[39:37] Jeff Parsons: I get a what what can I can I what?

[39:40] Katie DeShan: And so this kind of antagonism starts between those two.

[39:46] Jeff Parsons: How do the boys wake up because let's be honest Peter has been crowing and singing at the top of his lungs for about ten minutes now and they have yet to even stir.

[39:56] Katie DeShan: Wake up during the Neverland reprieve. No, but then I can't remember like knock something over. Is that it or and they're like...

[40:03] Jeff Parsons: So then they wake up and what Peter wants Wendy to do is tell him the ending of Cinderella.

[40:09] Katie DeShan: So because you know, he was the face spoiler alert. He was the face in the window listening to Mrs. Darling tell the story of Cinderella so he wants Wendy to tell him the rest of the story so he can go home and to Neverland and tell his little tribe of lost boys.

[40:16] Jeff Parsons: It's so pure, right? And she goes. Oh, well maybe I can just come with you and like be their mother or maybe that's his idea.

[40:28] Katie DeShan: I think, yeah.

[40:29] Jeff Parsons: I was trying to remember because I was thinking that rivalry between her and Tinkerbell is so funny because in his mind all the women in people's lives are mothers. That's like something he'd heard of mothers.

[40:39] Katie DeShan: Mm-hmm.

[40:39] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, and the idea comes about that Wendy can just be their mom so they can play house and she can tell them all the stories that they want.

[40:47] Katie DeShan: So in order to get to Neverland, which is second star to the right and straight on till morning, they all need to learn how to fly.

[40:56] Jeff Parsons: All you need is a little bit pixie dust, which he, you know, sprinkles on them, and I love a good glitter moment.

[41:04] Katie DeShan: And then all you have to do is what? Think lovely thoughts.

[41:11] Jeff Parsons: And Michael just keeps on thinking about candy and it's not happening and then Peter says think lovelier thoughts Michael and he thinks of Christmas and then flies into the air and it's so magical to just see a little boy like just fly into the air and live his best life and then everybody else starts, you know, flying as well in this great song called I'm flying which written by Moose.

[41:37] Katie DeShan: Okay. Yeah, Moose is doing great.

[41:41] Jeff Parsons: This is doing great. So we got three for Moose, someone for Julie.

[41:48] Katie DeShan: That's right.

[41:48] Jeff Parsons: So that this show was split into three acts, which I didn't realize and this is the end of the first act probably because the stage reset.

[41:50] Katie DeShan: Yeah, the stage magic wasn't at the point where you could change scenery that fast at the end of I'm flying.

[41:58] Jeff Parsons: That was the end of the first act and then we and then they came back into Neverland for top of act two.

[42:04] Katie DeShan: But man, is there anything quite like seeing those bodies flying back and forth on the stage with the star drop in the background?

[42:11] Jeff Parsons: I have chills again. I've I'll say that a million times.

[42:14] Katie DeShan: It's so magical and they're all holding hands and as a child like doing that part I'm sure for you the same it felt so magical.

[42:21] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, it is.

[42:27] Katie DeShan: My harness was too big and probably maybe unsafe because I just kind of like hung in it but we didn't do the across the way.

[42:32] Jeff Parsons: We just kind of did an up and down thing because we had, you know, but still so magical and then watching it when they hold hands and do the tracking which they've done I think in every version Sandy Duncan, Mary Martin, Kathy Rigby for sure.

[42:48] Katie DeShan: So magical those harnesses are uncomfortable to say the least you have to be a little bit careful, especially when you're a boy but it also just puts a lot of pressure on areas that don't usually hold weight.

[43:03] Jeff Parsons: Does that make sense?

[43:05] Katie DeShan: Doing it as a child you're not thinking about oh my thighs of this and then as an adult I had to wear a harness a few years ago a two-point which is just a thigh squeezer and a tummy squeezer and that's when I decided like...

[43:24] Jeff Parsons: Now they're in Neverland and traditionally we meet animals.

[43:26] Katie DeShan: Mm-hmm kind of like Nana.

[43:33] Jeff Parsons: Oh, the Mary Martin version does have those animals, right?

[43:37] Katie DeShan: You had I mean besides the crocodile which is like a bird that came out there's like this strange ostrich type ballet, uh-huh, and then a kangaroo with a powderpuff.

[43:43] Jeff Parsons: Remember the kangaroo and then there was one other, oh a lion that was that almost seemed kind of like a cowardly lion.

[43:50] Katie DeShan: Yes, he got scared and then we meet the tribe of lost boys, which...

[43:54] Katie DeShan: You know, Peter's family. There are twins in there. There's Tootles, who's like the youngest. There's Rufio. No. Listen, if only. Let's see who I'm trying. I'm trying to think who else there is like Tootles. Slightly is one of them. Slightly, right. And a lot of those were played by women in the Kathy Rigby version, like shorter women who would probably understudy Peter. But also Peter Pan is one of those shows where anyone can play anything, which I love. So that's great. And they have made a house underground through which the entrance is a tree. And the reason it's so incognito is because their greatest enemies on Neverland are the pirates. So they hear the pirates come in and they run away.

So the pirates come out and what a funny band of misfits they are. They're kind of like a band of middle-aged men. You know, like the kind of like dads who black out their teeth and play music in the garage because their leader, Captain Hook, and his like right mates, me, do their best thinking when music is played. And so whenever Captain Hook needs to think of a plan, he asks the pirates to play. And they say, at what tempo? At this point, they're trying to figure out how to get rid of the lost boys, which makes it less threatening, I think, if they're more of like a funny group of men playing instruments, because it is a little bit like we have to just kill these little boys. Right. No, but it's funny that they're a little foppish. They're a total mess and non-threatening. Yeah, non-threatening, like more comedic than evil.

[45:54] Katie DeShan: So the first tempo that they pick is the tango. Yes. Right. So they start playing this beat for Captain Hook. And he decides that the plan they're going to do is bake a cake and the cake is going to have poisonous icing, which will make it green and very tempting for the lost boys. And then they'll eat the cake because they don't have a mother to tell them not to eat too many sweets. Yes. And in doing so will die. Haha, this plan is perfect. And when I listen to this song, all I think is Donna Summer, MacArthur Park. Do you know that song? I like that disco song, MacArthur Park, where she talks about like someone left a cake out in the park and it rained and the green icing is running down. Oh, I mean, yeah, I guess random.

Very random. And I'm not saying that Peter Pan is random. Like, no, you should have a cake with green icing. You're in Neverland. Yeah, I'm talking. Why is Donna Summer singing about a cake in the park with green icing? Anyway, Hook's Tango, Moose. Moose. OK. Moose is really bringing it in with the genre switching. Absolutely. I'm there for it. From there, we meet Tiger Lily, because the only thing that the pirates are kind of afraid of besides the crocodile. I mean, Captain Hook is afraid of the crocodile. Oh, yeah. No, that's actually what it is. He hears the crocodile. And the reason he's afraid of the crocodile is because it ate his right hand, left hand, his right hand. Yeah. And he was holding a clock at the time.

So whenever he hears the tick tock, he knows that the crocodile is coming after him to eat more of him, which talk about symbolism that like this entity has got a taste for your mortality. And you hear the tick tock of time, like, you know, reminding you of your your mortal end. So spooky. Come on. Like a physical manifestation of the tick tock of your life. Yeah, it's pretty brilliant. And he has a piece of you already. Exactly. Because time is inevitable, right? It's always going to be taking a little piece of you. Dang, that's deep. So the pirates run off. Then we meet the Indians, who the pirates are also not fans of. Yeah. This is the moment where I'm like, gosh, dang it. How can something be so cute and racist at the same time?

Oh, the Mary Martin version is not okay. Okay, so she is blonde as the day is long. Right. And now I understand kind of what they were going for. And I'm not excusing this at all. But this is what I get from what they were doing. Kids back in the day played cowboys and Indians. Unfortunately, it stems from racism.

[49:02] Katie DeShan: Oh, for sure. I mean, the people playing cowboys and Indians weren't actual Native Americans. And I'm pretty sure the white kids playing had a very clear idea of who was the good guy and who was the bad guy. You know what I mean? As innocent as it may seem, it stems from a place that is super, super ugly. And I'm sure that Mr. Barry is playing on that childhood idea of being something that they're actually not, which is why I think that they went so completely blonde tiger lily with it. Because you mentioned King and I, Jerome Robbins is very adept at doing research within a culture and choreographing, but that isn't what's really happening here. It feels to me more like kids pretending to be something.

I think that storyline is just troubled if you think about the Disney version as well. Absolutely. Very not okay now because as a society now we are learning more about past cultures and what the history books lied to us about. So we can sit and say, okay, that was not okay. Productions never do it like that again. Right. And so I wonder even, and I know that like the Cathy Rigby version went the way of trying to then make them actual Native Americans. They do the cool Ugga Ugga dance with the sticks and they do drumming. So it's more of like a culture and people who are really in tune with the land. But then I don't know if that's good either because it's still not actual Native Americans living in Neverland.

And then are you just kind of stroking someone's ego by making them hot and cool? You know what I mean? That doesn't seem respectful either. So I'm like, what do you even do with this section? I don't know. It's become like, I can't begin to have an idea of how to like make that better.

[50:26] Katie DeShan: Yeah, me either. But I think the more conversations like this we have, the more people will step up and say, I actually am a dramaturg and I have a great idea. I have a great idea. And I'm more than willing to just go with that idea. So we meet Tiger Lily and her and her tribe, literal tribe. Then the Lost Boys come back out after the pirates and everybody have left. And because they're expecting Peter to come back. The first person that they see flying back, however, is Wendy, not Peter. And they mistake Wendy for a bird. So they shoot her down. And so Wendy crashes. But she's not actually dead. One of the Lost Boys unhooks her from her fly line. And then they get escorted off stage. They get pulled off stage by an assistant stage manager.

And then Peter and Michael and John all come back as well. And they're like, what have you done? This was your mother. You killed your mother. Don't they banish the one who who supposedly shot her? Peter's like, well, now I got to banish you. And it lasts for five seconds. And then they bring them back. Yeah. Which is very kid like. Yeah. Very quick conflict resolution. You're not my friend. Because kids are so quick to forgive. Isn't that amazing? I wish adults were as well. I know. I know some adults, they can hold a grudge. Listen, even when you're mad at your parents and you're like, I'm never speaking to you again. And then half hour later, you're like, what's for dinner? You know, that was me. Because you need them. There's no there's no way you can't need them. And I love that about parenthood. I can't wait to just laugh when my children are mad at me.

[52:09] Katie DeShan: That's going to be one of the more difficult things to me is to not laugh at their feelings. Because everything's so heightened, but then also so brief. So heightened, so brief. I think my niece does stuff like that a lot. She's four. Something was really heightened recently, and my sister and I both had to turn away because we were laughing. But to her, it was like. Yeah, but you don't want to invalidate their experience. No, not at all. By all means, I don't want to do that. But good heavens, they're entertaining. So Peter and the Lost Boys decide to build a house for Wendy as, you know, kind of a sorry for trying to kill you, I assume. That's fine. So they build a little house for Wendy and they sing a song.

OK. Written by Julie. What? Yeah. I was gonna say Moose. Yep. Because it's a little more of like a ditty. This whole idea of playing house. And they build a really cute house. They do. I'm trying to picture all the versions. It's great. It's like driftwood. Oh, they like paint in the Mary Martin version. Oh, do they? They don't. They bring out things and they like do some painting. I loved it. Oh, that's so cute. Meanwhile, the pirates have presented the cake, right? They like hit it. It's like smoking. But now it's just like nothing wrong with this thing. But because now they have a mother in Wendy and she's acting like a mother, she's like, no sweets before dinner. You're not eating that. And the pirates are foiled again. Now they have to get Wendy. Right. So now they have to think of something else.

[53:43] Katie DeShan: That means he needs another Tempo. A Tarantella. And it says a Tarantella. Now, the production that I did, which was a gorgeous production at TuaCon in Southern Utah. I was going to ask you where it was. Yeah, it was fantastic. I mean, they love their flying. Yeah, it's amazing. And Neverland has never looked more stunning than, you know, in that gorgeous outdoor theater. Yeah, incredible. But also there's lots of wildlife there. So I remember at one point during the Tarantella, there was like a tarantula. Oh, I would. I would have quit. You have. You would have never seen me. You have tarantulas and a lot of scorpions because it's in the desert. It's outside. And, you know, sometimes they waddle on stage and it's even more amazing when it's during a song whose tempo is named after the actual arachnid.

So they do the Tarantella and they decide to kidnap Wendy. Is that what they get from that song? I think I'm trying to think of the Tarantella. I think that's what they decide to do. From there, they have to go to school because like kids go to school, right? And so Peter's going to teach them because he's like the father and Wendy's the mother. And the lesson that he teaches them is I won't grow up.

[55:56] Katie DeShan: I'm going to guess. Guess. Moose. Yes. Woo! OK, so Moose, except for Neverland, kind of wrote some of the earworms. Like, I think I got a crow and I would say Neverland and I Won't Grow Up are pretty much the iconic ones. Yeah. I Won't Grow Up, which is so great. All of those lyrics, which, you know, a shout out to Carolyn, are so fun and play in that world of children not realizing how beautiful they are as children, you know? And the call and response, you know, is his way of teaching and also much like most childhood games. And every, you know, every elementary school when their choir comes up, it's the second graders are doing I Won't Grow Up. And I've directed kids doing that before. Just that song.

And adults love it because they know now what being an adult actually is. Absolutely. So it's kind of a nice wink to real adulthood. Listen, if you're a teacher and you're out there and you've got kids, do I Won't Grow Up. Yeah, because somebody will do that, the choreography first. And then all they have to do is repeat it. You get the one kid who's a star. Yeah. You bring him to the front or her. From there, does Tiger Lily get kidnapped? Yes. How do they kidnap Tiger Lily? To, like, lure Peter? So Peter has to rescue Tiger Lily, which actually is also kind of a source of contention for Wendy. They are all fighting over him and he could not be less interested in female relationships. It is kind of true, though.

Don't girls get crushes? Yes. They understand the whole idea of crushes before boys, I think, in general. Yes. And going very deep, society also places pressure on girls, I think, to be like, OK, well, your role is going to be a wife and mother. So, you know, when he's like, oh, we got the mother thing covered now. I have all these kids. So now I guess I have to be a wife as well. I got to get my man. So it's all about, well, he's the one boy I know who's my age. So I guess he's mine. Right. It's very like it's very deep on women's roles as well. Even my I have a niece who's the eldest of her other siblings and she has always been a Wendy. Yeah. Where she's like, I am a mom. That's my sister.

I mean, just the two of us, but she's older and she took her role as my big sister very seriously. And now she's a teacher and a mom and, you know, and so much more than that. But, you know, I think when you're an older sibling, you really take on the the role of like nurture. And I think for Wendy, she's going through her own stuff in this play, in this show, in the book. And it's really as a girl, it's really sweet and sad, too. Growing up is there is something moving out of the nursery when you talk about like always getting chills about this show. Part of it is the melancholy of having grown up and knowing what that transition is and not really even knowing when you're in that transition until you're out of it.

[58:10] Katie DeShan: Yeah. And then you're like, oh, I guess I'm an adult now. Right. And it happens in a way that you would never expect. Oh, for sure. Like for me, it was when my dad died. Yeah, I think that a loss like that is definitely when you feel like you need to step up. I guess I am. I guess I'm an adult now. Yeah, I think for me, it was when I went to school at Irvine, and so I was still pretty close. But when I went through kind of my first bout of being actually depressed about something, but I wasn't near my parents, I was like, oh, I have to just deal with this myself and I have to have a job and I have to be OK. I can't just run home. And it wasn't a huge loss.

[58:33] Katie DeShan: Like a loss because I was somehow having to be there for myself. I mean, there's a part where Peter gets left alone, and it's really heartbreaking. Yeah. Back to Moose. Get some cheering up. So then Mysterious Lady happens, which, like I said, it's the scene between Peter and Hook. Peter's using his voice in different ways to confuse him. He's like both the spirit of the forest, but then also this mysterious woman that's alluring and almost seductive. And Captain Hook, because he's a stupid adult, like is falling for all of it. It also kind of takes advantage of the fact that Peter is played by a woman and can do like this coloratura type thing. I wonder if they wrote that for Mary. Yeah. Thinking like, okay, we got to get her doing her crazy soprano stuff in here, too.

That Mary Martin, man. That Mary. She's so fantastic. I like her. MM. I do. I like her a lot. Tiger Lily gets saved. Captain Hook is foiled again. Then, oh, because Tiger Lily is saved, they do Ugga Ugga, which celebrates and we've talked about. After the big celebration, it's time to go to bed. So the Lost Boys and Peter and Michael and John and Wendy all go to the hut. And because it's time to go to bed, they need a lullaby. So Wendy kind of asks him to sing a song. And in newer versions, it became like this beautiful duet for Wendy and Peter. Yeah. And it really gives some insight to Peter, because the song is him remembering something that was sung to him. So he remembers his mother. Which, yeah, we so we don't know what happened to him.

Was he abandoned? No one really knows. But for whatever reason, now he's amazing. I know. And now he doesn't want to grow up. No, because he doesn't have he wasn't raised to grow up. And also it's I think it's his like defense mechanism. Absolutely. And the leader of these. We never wanted to grow up anyway. I don't want to be like these stupid adults who made this my life. Yeah. It's heartbreaking because he's not going to come out and say, you know, I actually never want to grow up because I never knew my mother, but I remember her and I'm sad about it. You know, everything's a defense mechanism. We're not that self-aware when we're kids. We just act, you know. So he sings that beautiful song written by Julie.

Okay. So that one and Neverland are the ones that really get you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Seriously. After that, now we're kind of wrapping things up. Yeah. Because they Wendy said, okay, well, actually, we got to wrap this up and I got to go home. And Peter thought, what? You don't want to stay here forever? And she said, no, I have my family. Right. And I think that is heartbreaking for him. What do you mean? Your family? I'm your family. Exactly. It's hard. And so the other lost boys are kind of like, wait, we're going to go to. Yeah. You have a family. Do you think we could fit in? And, and Peter's like, well, I'm not, I don't want that. And it's so sad. And it is so sad. So they all leave and Peter refuses to go.

And he is crying on the bed and kind of cries himself to sleep a little bit. And unbeknownst to him, as they were all exiting, the pirates were grabbing them. Yeah. Yeah. Because they have found out where this secret hiding places, their secret house. Because they kidnapped Tinkerbell? No, no, they did not. But they do, they leave some poison for him to drink. For him to drink. And, but he thinks that it's his medicine. Because Wendy, Wendy being the mother was like, make sure to take your medicine. And so he sees the poison thinking that it's his medicine and is going to take it. Tinkerbell's like, no, no, don't. And so she sacrifices herself in a bit of little stage magic and drinks the poison.

That part gets me too. And then he realized, I know we're going to cry. And then he realizes that Tink is dying. And that really would just be it for him. Because I mean, yeah, Tinkerbell is his family. So then we've been told, you know, right at the beginning of the show that a fairy, fairies were born when a baby cries. Oh my gosh. And that baby's cry turned into a fairy. And because there are, because children know so much now, there are fewer and fewer fairies. And so we already know that like fairies are on their way out. But then in like the best piece of audience participation in all theater history, there is no better than when Peter breaks the fourth wall and looks at the audience and asks everybody to clap to save Tink.

Yeah. I don't know if they do this in the Mary Martin version, but I know in the Kathy Rigby one, they have cameras on the audience. So you see kids like clapping. Oh, it's everything. It's so cute. Just completely invested. They are so invested. And that's literally what the story is. What the story needs at that moment is for everyone to believe. And then you get the parents out there like, I believe. It's incredible. It's just amazing, amazing storytelling. And so then Tink comes back to life. Everybody is so excited. And then it launches us into the climax. Like what an incredible momentum into this last part of the ship. So now we're at the ship. All of the lost boys and the children are about to walk the plank.

Peter sneaks onto the ship with Tiger Lily and the Indians, right? To help. To help. And he once again uses his trusty voice throwing skills. Oh my gosh, who's his voice teacher? Impeccable impressions. Peter Pan, if he was ever to grow up, would be a voiceover artist. Tricks everyone. They call him the doodledoo. The doodledoo. Because they keep sending pirates to, you know, take care of this voice. They think it's like in the ship. It's scary. And they and then they meet their demise. And once a pirate gets, you know, then they hear a cock-a-doodle-doo. And the kids know that it's Peter because of the, you know, crowing. But the pirates don't. So they're all real, real dumb. Right. Yeah. Once again, dumb adults.

I'm not going in there, Captain. So the pirates, you know, kind of get eliminated one by one. And then there's this big fight scene in which the Indians and the lost boys and everybody, you know, and I remember I was hitting somebody with my teddy bear. And it was my brother. My brother was a pirate. Oh, I love that. And so I made sure that I just got to smack him good and hard with my teddy bear. I think I like kicked a few people. Yeah, just was generally small and cute in the back. That's amazing. And then there's a big fight between Peter and Captain Hook. There's a bomb somehow associated with it. And I don't remember quite how that happens. But for whatever reason, Captain Hook ends up in the water.

Yes. Where there's the crocodile and the bomb. So regardless, I think he's kind of done. Yeah. But quick change back to Mr. Darling. Exactly. Oh, but they do sing that waltz song before all of that happens. Captain Hook's waltz. And it's actually really funny. Captain Hook. Oh, yeah. Captain Hook. That one is so good. It's so fun. Written by Julie. OK. And I actually get that one because comedy comes in threes. Yeah. Right. So you had the tango, the tarantella, and now they needed the third one. And so it's the waltz. And that's kind of the celebration that they've won until all of this happens. And it's so funny with those actors ad libbing and dancing. It's amazing. Unfortunately, their celebration doesn't last.

Captain Hook and everybody are out of here. And it's time to go home. Now we go back to the Darling's nursery where mom is just beside herself because her children are gone. And Nan is there, the dog, and she's singing Tender Shepherd all by herself. They join in and come through. And then they sing with her. And that's how she knows that she's been reunited with her kids. It's a glorious, beautiful reunion and kind of in like 101 Dalmatians sort of way. It's not just a reunion with them, but now they have all of these lost boys. And maybe a pirate or two pops in if you had a big cast. That's adorable. I would love that. I feel like I've seen that. They all just kind of start pouring in through the window.

It's just like, well, we have enough room. And Mr. Darling is like, well, you know what? I guess we can. But will you mind me? Will you promise to grow up? We will grow up. And there's a reprise of we will grow up. And that's really sweet because now everyone's on the same page about life, except for Peter. And Wendy knows this. And so she looks to the window and says, like, come visit us, Peter. We'll miss you. And that was originally where the play stopped. Oh, wow. And it wasn't until they started doing all of the revisions that they added this next part, which is, you're right. So Wendy grows up and now has her own daughter named Jane. Katie's crying. Sorry. And once again, the windows open.

Peter comes in thinking because he doesn't understand time and time doesn't exist really for him, thinking that no time has passed. And he's looking for John and Michael. Right. And they're not there. But he does see a girl and thinks that it's Wendy, but it's not. In fact, Wendy is this girl's mother. And Peter's kind of beside himself because he's like, you know, you grew up. She says, what is it ever so much more than 20? Which I'm like, how old is that? Like 30? Can't be that old. But old enough now that she can't fly to Neverland anymore. Even that feeling of like, I can be childlike, but I can't be childish anymore. Yeah. And it's also like maybe she doesn't want to leave her responsibilities.

She's a mother now. Who knows what her job is? Exactly. There's so much more. There's so much more that you have to think about and consider. Besides, I just want to go to Neverland. But the beautiful thing is that she can still experience it through her daughter, which for me as an uncle, as a gunkle, to experience Christmas through my nieces and nephews, all of a sudden made Christmas more enjoyable than it had even been when I was young. Yes, it is the best. Right. I had my like fifth Christmas this year with my one of my nieces is four. And then my littlest one is one and a half. They are so much fun. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's pure magic. It is Neverland without going to Neverland, you know.

So then Jane carries on the tradition and goes with Peter to spend some time in Neverland and Wendy watches. And then that's how the show ends with the little reprise of that beautiful song. And the kids are like, great, awesome. And the parents are all like, when did I grow up? The kids are like, the flying was awesome. And the grownups are like, I can't even breathe. I think, you know, and this is silly, but there's always a huge line for the Peter Pan ride at Disneyland. 45 minutes to an hour and a half. Always the longest. You are absolutely right. Everyone loves that story, ride, movie, everything, because it is just a way to escape. And Lord, if we don't need some escapism right about now, always, you know, the fact that you can escape and be reminded about what matters is just so inspired.

Yeah. Yeah. Everyone needs a refresh in Neverland and then to come back and be reminded, you know, yes, new world to live and that's so true. And we're not done telling the story. I know that La Jolla is doing fly, which is all being told from Wendy's perspective. And then there's something called Wendy and Peter or Peter and Wendy, I believe in there was in D.C., which is kind of also Wendy's side of it. And then it's a musical. And then Finding Neverland, which has been asked for us to cover. So I will do it because I'm dedicated to covering the shows that people write in and ask me to cover. Get Cameron Bond in here for that one. I know, right? Get Cameron in. But I think it was important to cover Peter Pan first before we look at some of these other offshoots.

Other offshoots. Anyway, thank you, Jerry Robbins. And, you know, Moose and Julie who juice and moolah juice and moolah, who who actually for the amount of people that worked on this, it's pretty seamless. Right. When you were telling me it didn't seem like one voice to this and one voice to that. It really seems like it was all the same. Thank you, Katie, for being here. I had such a wonderful time talking to you. I didn't talk too much. Oh, are you kidding me? That's literally a podcast. This is what you're supposed to do. So good job. And I love that we have such a personal connection to it. And that's kind of the power of musicals and about participating in the performing arts is that these become part of who you are.

These shows and stories become part of who you are. And whether you're on stage or off stage, I think kind of exploring that brings so much joy and maybe makes us better people. I think so as well. And I think this is one of those shows that brings to life not only the magic of theater, but the magic of life. Amen. Amen. As always, if you have any shows that you want us to cover on a musical theater podcast, email me at a musical podcast at gmail.com. Remember to follow us on Instagram and Twitter at a musical podcast for more great content. In the meantime, I got a crow. I was gonna say, oh, take a trip to Neverland and you're like, I got a crow. So who's the moose and who's the Julie? One of us is a moose and one of us is a Julie. That's the best thing. Are you a moose or a Julie? That's going to be the new Instagram like a scroller. Everyone's like, I don't know. Bye, everybody. Bye.