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[0:00] Yvette Cason: Three cast albums you can't live without. Dreamgirls, for obvious reasons. Obvi. For obvious reasons, the original. Actually, Phantom of the Opera. I love that answer. Yeah, I'm a big fan of the music. The Wiz.

[0:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's awesome. Yeah, The Wiz. Have you done The Wiz? I mean, you've had to.

[0:24] Yvette Cason: I have not.

[0:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I know. Crazy. I have not done The Wiz. That seems full-on criminal.

[0:30] Yvette Cason: Yeah.

[0:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, favorite thing to eat after a performance?

[0:35] Yvette Cason: Oh, you make me choose one thing. Like, that's so crazy. I would have to say a good burger.

[0:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay. A good burger. I totally get that. Good burger. Not just a janky burger, but a good burger.

[0:50] Yvette Cason: Yeah, no McDonald's drive-thru.

[0:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, no, no, no, like a really good burger. And yeah, we would go get some good fries, good burgers, and maybe a little cocktail.

[1:05] Yvette Cason: Oh, just a little cocktail.

[1:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, last question. Live performance you'll never forget as an audience member.

[1:14] Yvette Cason: Oh, oh, there was. See, I know there's so many. I mean, just recently, I will always remember Cynthia Erivo in The Color Purple singing, what is her 11 o'clock number? Yes, you'd help me, help me. Beautiful. Yes, yes, yes. I'm here. I am here. I'm here. I am here. Yes. When I tell you, it just pierced my soul.

[1:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that voice.

[1:40] Yvette Cason: And yeah, she let him have it.

[1:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today, we are talking about the musical Play On! with someone who I believe to be a true musical theater legend, Miss Yvette Cason.

[2:12] Yvette Cason: Yay.

[2:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you, Jeffrey. I have to admit that I always thought your last name was pronounced Kason. So thank you for bringing me up today on the truth.

[2:27] Yvette Cason: Hey, people have added R's, Carson, Kason. Yeah, they just create their own thing. That is how you pronounce it. Thank you.

[2:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, you have a very deep connection to the musical Dreamgirls.

[2:41] Yvette Cason: I do. I came right after Jennifer Holliday left. And they were taking the show, not only what would be considered another national tour, but it was also an international tour, which meant we went to Japan, we went and we went to Paris. So yeah, and, and we came back to Broadway after we did the States.

[3:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yeah. So I was on Broadway with it. Absolutely.

[3:09] Yvette Cason: That's so cool. And then not only were you in New York with Dreamgirls, but then you were in the film Dreamgirls, which I see the poster behind you, in which you gave birth to Beyonce.

[3:22] Yvette Cason: I gave birth, I could say I, I was Beyonce's mom. I know. And I'm so proud of my little girl. She's such a wonderful talent.

[3:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She got it all from you.

[3:30] Yvette Cason: She got it all. No, it was such a blessing. So honored. You know, Dreamgirls was my first musical.

[3:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're kidding.

[3:37] Yvette Cason: No, I'm not. It was my first musical out of college. And oh my gosh, I auditioned four times. So for those who are listening, don't stop. It is. It's a process. It's a journey. But Michael Peters and Michael Bennett kept calling me in. And that fourth time, they said you're in. I don't know what that what it was, but it happened. And there I was rehearsing at 890 Studios, which anyone that's listening and lives in New York, they know all about 890 Studios.

[4:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The movie was sort of a 360 moment, you know, only myself and Loretta Devine. And I think there were a few chorus people who were in it, the dancers who also were in it too.

[4:24] Yvette Cason: Yes, which was really nice. So yeah, it was wonderful. I just get really emotional thinking about it. Because Michael Bennett, I know that was his dream to make it a movie. And Bill Condon, the director did an amazing job, I think.

[4:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so sweet. I've also had the privilege of seeing you on stage and you are a force of nature.

[4:50] Yvette Cason: Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that. I enjoy the stage because one I just love the process of the theater, the whole rehearsal period, getting to really get into the nuts and bolts of the scenes. And, you know, with your acting partners, and specifically, I mean, if we're talking about musicals, because I've done plays too, and then the music brings another layer to it. I mean, I love TV and film too, don't get me wrong. But we don't have the same, yes, for the monetarily.

[5:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's apples and oranges.

[5:29] Yvette Cason: But the work for me, I'm just speaking for me, I just like the work process, because we don't always have that luxury with TV or film. So yeah, I really do. And I miss it. I'll be so glad when we can get back to stage. I mean, that's where I live. I always say it's my happy place. It really, really is. It is my happy place when I get to the theater. It's just something about walking in that theater and standing on that stage. And you just stand there and you get to see all the seats before people are in them and kind of get that energy. I just like to take in that space and be on that stage and have a little small moment before I start to work. It's just kind of my thing to do.

[6:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love that. There's such a hum that comes from a live audience and all sitting together, all experiencing the show. It's a beautiful thing that I am convinced is not going away. So I can't wait for it to return.

[6:20] Yvette Cason: Yeah, I'm with you. I don't think it's going to go away. I think people just have to get to a place where they feel safe again and comfortable because there really is an energy, especially with live theater. You need to have people there.

[6:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[6:32] Yvette Cason: You know, I know I've done that. It's just like, you're just kind of on the edge of your seat. Every emotion is being felt, you know, in that song, like, that's what I was talking about with Cynthia. I'm not even kidding you. Like I went from the back of my chair. She, by the time she finished, I was almost in the back of this woman's head. That was him. That's how far I leaned.

[6:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, ma'am. I'm sorry.

[6:59] Yvette Cason: I just, I mean, because you get transported into this, if it's really powerful and that's what Jennifer Holliday did. Like I remember seeing her in my basement, in my parents' home. Entertainment Tonight was doing some highlights of the show. And I heard this woman's voice and I can't even tell you, I don't know what I was doing, but it stopped me. Like I just froze and I was like the TV. I was like, this isn't even humanly possible.

[7:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like, and then to hear, and then I had no idea that same song. I am telling you, I would be singing one day, which by the way, is a beast of a song to sing. How dare you? How dare you write such an amazing song like that and expect us to hold that note forever.

[7:48] Yvette Cason: No, it was, it was, I mean, just brilliant. She, she just blew me away. Did you hear about the Dreamgirls reunion thing that happened at the Ford Theater in LA a couple, when was that, like five years ago?

[8:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I got asked to be one of the dancers and I was also in charge of, because you know, at the Ford, it's outside and they have weird steps in the back that like lead up the mountain. So I was in charge of helping all the ladies down the stairs.

[8:18] Yvette Cason: Yeah.

[8:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That has given me so many memories.

[8:28] Yvette Cason: I'm sure. That's all I'll say.

[8:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is that one of those we'll talk later over a cocktail?

[8:34] Yvette Cason: Exactly. That's for the burger, if you know what I mean.

[8:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I'm sure everybody's thinking, why aren't you doing a Dreamgirls episode? And here's the thing. It's because February is Black History Month. And while Dreamgirls is an incredible show, it was written by a couple of white guys, directed by a white guy. And Play On! is a musical that premiered in the late nineties, directed, choreographed, written, featuring the music of, orchestrated by, starring a cast of all people of color.

[9:14] Yvette Cason: Yep.

[9:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That is so unusual and blows my mind that it's so unusual, but so incredibly unusual in the musical theater canon. Now, being a person of color, because obviously I'm about as white as you can get, can you talk to me about how that makes a difference to your process and particularly to this show that seems to be celebrating Black artists?

[9:40] Yvette Cason: Well, of course it makes a difference being, you're right, being a person of color. You know, although Henry Krieger, Tom Ion, they were white, they tapped into something I think very special, you know, for Dreamgirls, I have to say.

[10:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For sure.

[10:01] Yvette Cason: And they brought a lot of the cultural element to the show.

[10:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Sure.

[10:06] Yvette Cason: And I would like to say, or like to think that is because Michael was very smart. And I'm speaking of Michael Bennett. He was very smart to surround himself. He didn't, although he was the director and he was, he was, you know, a very, he was the kind of person like, you know, what I say is what I say, but he was smart enough to put a lot of people around him and he took their advice. That's what I want to say. You know what I mean? Like he listened, he listened. And with that listening, he was able to tap into what we know as this amazing show that will go on and on and on.

[10:35] Yvette Cason: So to that point, yes, I did that Play On!. Yes, it had, you know, like you said, the black director, the black writer, composer, cast. It was the cast was, yes. And I talked about them. It was. And I don't even know if I was impacted the same way as I am, you know, in thinking about it in retrospect. Do you know what I mean?

[11:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like, yeah, like it wasn't as present.

[11:01] Yvette Cason: I did notice it because, you know, as we were going through, we were sitting in this rehearsal hall rehearsal room and I looked around the room and there was just these beautiful black actors and singers and creators. And it just, OK, you did feel like I'm home. Do you know what I mean?

[11:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, yeah. In many ways, it seems like it was representation before there was a real conversation about what that even means in many ways, because we do talk about the importance of seeing black artists not only on stage, but backstage and behind the table and, you know, everywhere.

[11:43] Yvette Cason: And what's interesting is in researching the show, that wasn't really part of the conversation in selling the show.

[11:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, it wasn't.

[11:50] Yvette Cason: And well, first of all, this should never have taken this long. It should have never taken this long. But as I've learned, timing is everything. Everything doesn't happen in the time that we want it. That's just life. But it does happen. And it happens because people, you know, say, wait a minute. Hello. This is not right. And we have to be honest. I mean, there's been several really impactful things that have happened this year. We've had George Floyd, the Black Lives Matter, this election, you know, people just were like, I've got to say something. I've got to do something. Hopefully, this isn't just a thing. This needs to be, you know, we have voices like Ava DuVernay, who said, I want to make a change in the not just in front of the camera, but behind the camera. You know, I mean, and not just for but for women, like there's all these different areas.

[12:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Speaking of Ava, weren't you in Wrinkle in Time?

[12:51] Yvette Cason: I was. Yes.

[12:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So cool.

[12:53] Yvette Cason: Yeah, yes, I was. So I really think there's a timing where this is a moment where, and I think, was it last? No, you know, time is crazy with COVID. It was really two years, because it just seems like it's going forever.

[13:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, it's a season.

[13:09] Yvette Cason: Yes, it's a season. Two years ago, or maybe three, they were talking about the Oscars being so white.

[13:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oscars so white.

[13:17] Yvette Cason: You know, Oscars so white. And then, you know, SAG, I'm seeing, you know, they're talking about putting more people of color, not just of African Americans, but Asian, Latino, Latinx people. I mean, so I just think now we're at a place where we're going to see a lot of change. I see it on TV.

[13:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[13:36] Yvette Cason: So I don't think I was as tuned in, like now I would be like, yes.

[13:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So take me through how you entered the project, because it started out in San Diego, right?

[13:49] Yvette Cason: Yes. Sheldon Epps, who directed the show, he and I became acquainted when I did Sister Ella, which was a musical I did at Pasadena Playhouse. And Sister Ella was sort of my, I would call it my coming out or introduction to Los Angeles. Because as we know, LA is not really a theater town. It's a film and television town.

[14:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Whereas New York...

[14:14] Yvette Cason: Even though the theater community is huge and incredibly diverse, but so spread out, and we feel isolated and kind of like the redheaded stepchild.

[14:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. And, you know, there's, I mean...

[14:24] Yvette Cason: There's the Pasadena Playhouse, which I've done 10 productions there, Sister Ella being my first. I had no idea that I'd be doing all these, you know, I'm sort of like a resident, I call a resident actor there. And the Geffen, Dorothy Chandler, there's all these wonderful places to do your work, but you know, it's still TV and film. So I did this show, got so much movement, like, I mean, everybody saw this show, everybody. And Michael Jackson was one of the producers, by the way, of Sister Ella. And Robert De Niro was a producer. Yeah, it was huge. So that really was like a nice intro for me. Sheldon was a fan, thank goodness. And right when we finished the show at Pasadena Playhouse, I was somewhere and he called and he asked, he offered the job, you know, we love when we get offers.

You know, we don't have to audition, straight offers. Straight offers. Yeah, he offered me Miss Mary in Play On. And yeah, he said, I really would love you to take this character. And, you know, because now I'm creating, every actor loves when they can create a character, like I did with Dahlia, when you can take it and make it pretty much your own. So that's how I came to be a part of Play On. And we, of course, you know, we went down to the Old Globe, which is an amazing theater. San Diego. I mean, I'm still friends with quite a few of those cast. We, as a matter of fact, I think was a couple of weeks ago, one of the cast members posted a picture we took together. It was kind of our anniversary.

Yeah, it was really special. Okay, so Sheldon Epps, the show was kind of his creation. Yeah. And from what I understand, his idea was to take the music of Duke Ellington and pair it with William Shakespeare's Twelfth Night. And the reason that he thought it would be a great combination is, you know, one of the famous quotes from Twelfth Night is, if music be the food of life, by all means, play on. And one of the famous quotes from Duke Ellington is, music is my mistress. So he's like, all right, these two are, these two are our kissing cousins. He brought on as choreographer Mercedes Ellington, who just so happens to be Duke Ellington's granddaughter. Granddaughter, right? That's right. Now, they had been longtime collaborators.

They had collaborated before. So she brought with her the entire catalog of Duke Ellington music. And he, along with Mercedes and the book writer, Cheryl L. West, decided how we're going to sculpt this thing. How are we going to make it work in a different setting than the original Twelfth Night story? What they came up with is the setting of the kingdom of Harlem. Great backdrop, by the way, right? So we're talking 1940s Harlem. There is instead of Viola, there is a young woman coming to the city named Vi, who wants to be a composer. Unfortunately, in 1940s Harlem, that's not really going to work for a female. So she gets the idea, thanks to her uncle Jester, to dress up like a dude, and then maybe she can find her in.

And then, of course, we'll talk about the plot a little bit later of what continues. Now, this production premiered in San Diego. From what I understand, audiences loved it. And a few months later, it premiered on Broadway. That's correct. We didn't have a long run, unfortunately. We should have. We were right across the street from The Life, which I know you know that show, and Lilius White, who's an amazing performer. They just hit and ran. And they had a lot of things that we did not have. And you have to have really good marketing, which was crazy because we were in New York where Harlem was. But that's another story. That's another burger story. But yeah, it did get to Broadway. What's interesting is it seems that audiences loved it.

Critics did not. But everybody praised the cast and the energy that you brought to it. Now, right here, I want to stop before we start talking about some of the individuals involved in the show. And I found this quote from a musical theater history book, no less about Play On. And I'm just going to warn you, I find it incredibly offensive. Here we go. Many reviewers in what have become for them stereotypical reviews of black shows complained that the characters were stereotypes and going further back to notices from the 20s onward, saw the entertainment as stronger on pep than polish, or very conventionally high spirited and Bojangles. Now, I think I can speak for everyone when I say like, what the fuck?

That feels like the most condescending, racially insensitive thing you could say. These black people have a lot of energy, but I sure wish they had a little more polish. What are you even talking about? Right. This musical was meant to celebrate the black artists in the same way that you did in the 1940s at the Cotton Club in Harlem. Yes. So where do you think this comes from? I mean, this is just, I'm not looking for an actual answer. Well, I mean, I really do think it's just a lack of, well, first of all, I never felt like we were for the, you know, lack of better words with people, you know, we weren't shucking and jiving. This was not a shucking jive. You know, this wasn't a chitlin circuit, play musical.

This was all class. You have, let us just remember, you have Mercedes Ellington, Luther Henderson. I'm just going to, those two right there. Luther Henderson. Luther Henderson. Orchestrator, arranger. Orchestrator, arranger who worked with Dizzy Gillespie and Duke Ellington and Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah, like, do you know what I mean? Because, and I know this because I'm a huge Ella fan. So I have done a lot of research just with her and his name comes up. And I've also read on Duke Ellington and Sarah and all of these jazz, I'm just a jazz head. And his name is mentioned in every book. He was everyone's right hand guy. So when you review in that way, I already know you have, you don't know what you're talking about.

Thank you. Thank you. That's how I feel. Yeah. I feel you, you've missed what was done here. You missed the whole thing, you know, Sheldon, Sheryl West writing, which I thought was a really good book. And the performances, the performances. Yeah, no. And I, so I can't even, you know, I don't read reviews until after the show is closed. That's just me. Smart. Because you can get in your head, whether it's good or bad. Sure. Whether it's good or bad. I just do that as a protection for myself. And I also know it's just an opinion. Yeah. An opinion that may be based. May I say an opinion based on ignorance? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. You simply don't know because let's be honest, most reviewers are white.

Yeah, there you go. So the perception, it's your, it's your perception, what you're seeing. But it was, I'm proud to be a part of that show. Definitely. It was one of the highlights of my career. And I, when you get to me, and then I didn't even mention the amazing triple threat of Andre De Shields. And if I'm, if you're going to, every time I say his name, I feel like I have to go Andre De Shields, because you know, Andre talks, he's, yes, that's just how he talks, how he talks. So, and meeting him, I was a little taken aback because I, you know, I'd heard about him, I'd seen him. And, you know, I knew who he was. And he's just so warm. And, but very serious about his craft, very serious about his craft.

And I learned a lot from him by watching him, talking to him. Not only is he an amazing performer, but he's very, very educated in the union part of what we do. He's the one that hit me to all of, you know, as a union member, you need to be plugged into this, and you need to know about this. So he's not, he just, he's not out there singing and acting. He does the work behind the scenes. He's a businessman too.

[22:57] Yvette Cason: He's a businessman too. And he, he definitely is all about educate yourself on, you know, the things that you need to know about your union, the do's and don'ts. So I love, yeah, I love him. And I just feel blessed to work with him and also Tanya Pinkins. Okay. So this is what I want people to know. One of the many things I want people to know after listening to this episode, Andre De Shields was a legend before Hadestown. Yes. Yes. Everybody was like, where has, who is this person? We all knew who this person was. Yes. And one of his big roles was in Play On. He was nominated for a Tony award for it. Tanya Pinkins was a legend before Caroline or Change. That's true. Got a Tony nomination for this show.

Yeah. So that whole stage was just populated by legends, in my opinion. Right. And, and it was, for me, it was huge because here I am working with these amazing and talented, smart, giving, because some actors aren't giving, giving actors, performers. I soaked it all up. I tell young people all the time, you know, you need to, you got to soak up everything. Listen. Open those ears. Open those ears. Ask questions. Come ready. Do your homework. Yes. Yeah. I'm glad you said that. Yeah. Andre was, I mean, he was, you can't mention the Wiz without mentioning Andre De Shields. Andre De Shields is the Wiz. Yeah. He's the Wiz. He is the Wiz. Okay. So I want to share with you how I came to know Play On.

At this point, I am a teenager living in a small farm town in Northern Utah, and we had a dial up internet. And what would usually happen is I would, you know, dial up to the internet and I'd go to Playbill.com. I would go make myself a sandwich because that's how long it would take to load. And then I would come back and I would read one story. And usually the click that I would choose was upcoming cast albums because that was something that I could actively participate where I was. And I saw that the cast album for Play On was coming out. So I added it to my Christmas list and God bless my parents because they're amazing people. They got me the cast album of Play On for Christmas. So I'm listening to it.

And I mean, I know some of the songs. I know it don't mean a thing if you ain't got that swing. But honestly, I was not aware of the catalog of Duke Ellington songs. And this show is responsible for my introduction to the Duke. And Play On was something that didn't leave my stereo for many, many, many months. I loved it so, so much. So I wanted to do this show so that we could talk about Duke Ellington and introduce him to anybody who might not know him. Duke Ellington, probably one of the most formidable forces in all of American Western music. He was the king of big band and swing in the 1930s, had his own orchestra. He was not only a band leader, but he also created his own compositions that crossed over into the American songbook.

So his footprint is huge in terms of Western music. In doing a little bit of research about him, one of the things that made his musical sound so interesting was that he very specifically picked individual artists to make up his band. Some of the greatest jazz players ever were in his orchestra. And therefore, his compositions and arrangements allowed for those individuals to be spotlighted and used in a way that really elevated the sound to something that had never been heard before. Now, the really beautiful thing is that's what Play On was as well. Yes. It was an opportunity to let you all shine like the stars that you are, and I think really elevate musical theater to a place that not only introduces us to this tradition in music of the past, it's a really beautiful marriage of the past and the present.

[28:39] Yvette Cason: Well, first of all, you did your homework. I was hanging on your every word. I felt like I was in class. I was like, great. No, everything you said is absolutely correct. And I was just looking at the songs that were in the show, because I mean, I had my favorites, and of course, one that I sung on, it don't mean a thing. No, his music was, it was incredible. And you're absolutely right. His band, you could pretty much everyone in his band was a solo artist in their own right. They went out and became a solo artist, did great music as well. Yeah. I really think if we were doing this show now, this would be a good time to do this show. I mean, I've spoken to Sheldon about it a couple of times over the years, and I don't know what the, if there's something, the reason we can't do it.

But anyway, I always said this, we should do it again, because I feel like the timing. To truly celebrate Black artistry in this way, it feels incredibly relevant. And it was education, and you're not the only one. I mean, we had audience members who were like, I didn’t know. Either they did not know, like...

[28:49] Yvette Cason: And usually it was a younger person who may not be well-versed in Duke Ellington. But there were also people who were but did not know he wrote certain songs like sure like he wrote this one. Do you know this one too? Exactly? It's an education too, especially when we had, you know, they always do the student days when the... yeah, I mean, I always I love those. Yeah, I always love those shows because just to watch these young people, it's like a lightbulb moment for them because you never know and I know they're, you know how when it's in school and you just want to you're just happy to go anyplace because you're out of class, that's not, you know, yeah, it's not school. So you don't really care like I'm going to see this musical, I don't know what it is.

But when they tell you that and they go wow, I didn't really know what I was coming, I was really done and they start asking questions. Then, you know you have you've hit the mark and that's what I think this show did it was an education it was entertaining, it was funny and it actually hit on things, you know a woman not being able to really do the music the way she wanted to do because she was a woman, you know. And it's an acute story too like it is that's the other thing. It's a really cute cute story with it. And I didn't mention Larry Marshall who I did the show with Larry Marshall another, he's done more Broadway shows always almost anyone always always working and he was your man. He was he was my man.

Yes, and he was the best. I mean seriously there he and Clinton Derrick's and his brother Cleavon. I both work with them. They're twins, I don't know that. Oh my gosh, I think I maybe I just had a breakthrough moment. I think I thought they were the same person. No, and for a minute it took me a minute to really know who you know, like I would get a job and they go Oh Clinton's gonna play your your office and I'm like, they literally are identical but I said that I named the three of them because they're just so wonderful to work with. They're just so wonderful to work with Larry keeps you laughing, you know, and so does Cleavon and Clinton.

[31:06] Yvette Cason: Well, the unfair thing about all of this is that you guys came back to Pasadena and filmed Play On! for Great Performances for PBS and with the exception of two numbers on YouTube, I can't find it at all. Really no, and if you know, you mean you can't find the PBS. Yeah, I can't find the PBS. I can't it was on for a while and I wished I should have taped it and I may have it may be because that was around the VHS. It wasn't DVR then, right, right, right, right, which would have been great because you can keep up just save that save it as long as you need it. But video I mean, it's there at the library, you know, where they keep it. Yes. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, of course. I was like the LA library. No, I would I know I'd run down there. No, it's in the New York library.

[31:57] Yvette Cason: Okay, let's go briefly through it and talk some about some of the numbers if there are any that are your favorites shout them on out. So like we say Vi comes to New York looking for Harlem because that's where all of the music is and the ensemble tells her which is a very hard-working ensemble to be doing all of that incredibly athletic Mercedes Ellington choreography. They tell her that she must take the what the a-train. Yeah, that was that number. Whoo. Yeah, she whipped us in the shape for that. I was out of breath after that number. And Vi sings drop me off in Harlem, which what a great song now one thing that I didn't realize Duke Ellington wrote all of the music. He usually paired himself with different lyricists.

So all of these songs have lyrics by various people but one of the lyrics that really sticks out to me and drop me off in Harlem that feels different to me in, you know, 2021 is I don't want your Dixie. You can have your Dixie. Did you get the reference? Yeah, like the racial undertones of all of that never came up until now and this thing was written in the 1930s. How am I? How was I so blind? Well, you know a lot of there was a mass exodus from the south to the north, right for obvious reasons for obvious reasons. So, of course, he would be able to talk about that exactly and put that in there. And I don't know if someone of this generation would even understand that that's very cute of you because that's exactly what that meant. I don't want it. I love when these types of things are in songs that have become standards.

[34:01] Yvette Cason: I'm sure a lot of white people listen to that and didn't think twice. Well, you know, what's interesting? They sat in that cotton club and all those clubs and heard that song and probably maybe they understood it. But you know, it's it's it's in the song. Isn't he great, you know, right, right not right, right not feeling or not getting that light bulb now you mentioned the cotton club. That's where vi goes, you know the the famous cotton club. What do you understand the cotton club to have been in in that time? I mean, it's very segregated but it was a place for musicians to you know play to get known. I mean singers did perform there? I I know if you were of a certain hue a color you weren't allowed or they didn't have you there, you know lighter skinned women like if you were too dark.

Is that you were too? Yeah, really? I mean you'd be a musician but as far as a singer and um, it was like I said segregated. So there were black audiences white audiences mainly white audiences. Was this like a gentrified kind of version of black entertainment and art? Well, I mean this was still doing, you know, the Jim Crow time. So they weren't really doing a lot of black audiences, these were predominantly white audiences. There were clubs though that had that, you know black clubs that we could go to just for ourselves but the cotton club no not so much interesting.

[36:15] Yvette Cason: So vi goes like I said to the cotton club. She meets her uncle jester who was played by... go ahead and say Andre De Shields in the way that he deserves. Andre De Shields. Let me just say too I'm gonna sorry but all of these celebrity musicians played at the cotton club. Do you know what I mean? Like that's what I'm I'm always so I mean we're talking Billy Holiday, Fletcher Henderson, Duke Ellington, even oh Bessie Smith. Oh, wow. Yeah, there were there were quite a few but we were just not allowed to be patrons there which was kind of crazy. And Cab Calloway, we can't forget Cab Calloway his influences all over the place in this Lena Horne, Miss Lena, um, and it was in the midtown Manhattan.

Okay. Yeah, so a little bit outside of Harlem. Gotcha. Yeah, but it was a hot spot. So I'm sorry go. No, no, no, you're no you're fine. So uncle jester tells vi look doll you may be an amazing composer, but there's no way you're going to be able to do it as a woman. But if I can make you into a man or at least dress you up like one, maybe you'll get your shot. So that's what he does. He gives her a makeover. We love a makeover. We love we love a good makeover. We love a good makeover vi becomes Vi Man and Vi Man goes to see the most famous composer who who's performing at the club named Duke, yes, you see where this is going people, right? And Duke is heartbroken because he is in love with Lady Live, the famous singer at the club, right?

Why is he so sad about her or is it just kind of a unrequited? Yeah, it's an unrequited love. Got it. Yeah, they never had the as we would say the hook up but he he was in his feelings about her. Yeah got the vapors. He got the vapors.

[37:18] Yvette Cason: So the plan gets hatched that Vi Man, Vi is going to go to the club and play a song for Lady Live and she's and oh see now the pronouns start getting confusing and Vi is going to say that the song is from Duke specifically for Lady Live so that she starts loving him, right? So Vi goes to the club. She sees Lady Live sing Mood Indigo, that song that song. Yeah, and then plays Don't Get Around Much Anymore a great Duke Ellington song for Lady Live. Now the problem is that it in the true Twelfth Night fashion when she plays the song for Lady Live, Lady Live falls in love with Vi, not Duke. Right now in the meantime you have the people who work there Uncle Jester who we've already discussed, right Miss Mary, that's me, Mary who would be her dresser seamstress tail, you know all of that.

Okay for Lady Live you're working for her and then Sweets who is my boyfriend is your boyfriend and what does he do at the club? Sweets did just does he do anything? Yeah, I know Sweets Sweets actually was um I think he like kind of ran the club a little you know, okay, kind of like a house. Yeah, house manager. Yeah, that's what we'd like to think of the Sweets. Yes, Sweets and they are really annoyed by the owner of the club who's named Rev played by the wonderful Lawrence Hamilton. Yes, and Rev is a total stick in the mud. He's very strict. He's very serious. He's also in love with Lady Live but can't express it and so Miss Mary decides to have some fun with Rev and tells him, you know the problem the problem the reason that you're not getting in with Lady Live is because you're too serious. You need to learn how to sing some jazz. Yeah, and how to be cool. Yeah, how to be and how to relax because thank you he was very stuck up.

[39:29] Yvette Cason: That brings you three to seeing it Don't Mean a Thing and you teach everybody how to scat. Now this is one of your true talents so can you please tell us what the secret is to scatting in jazz music? No. You know, and I only say no because people have literally asked me. Can you teach me how to scat and it's an improvisation and I mean there are improvisational classes for people to take in playing, um, you know piano and and even singing but I likened it to like when I used to watch, um Gregory Hines tap who I just love come on. It's a rhythmic thing that that's happening and everything is within that measure that beat but it's a feeling does that make sense? Yeah, so composing in in my right I'm going but I'm but I'm making sure that I'm staying within the melody I'm making sure that I'm staying within the framework of the song although the queen of scatting Miss Ella Fitzgerald who I adore, um, she was able to combine like go outside and of the song and bring another song but it's seriously it's just and I I remember being at school.

I went to Berkeley College of Music in Boston and I remember a shout out to my alma mater. Um just being in a rehearsal with some students and we were practicing and I don't know I just started doing it and they were like you can but I I was just did it I wasn't thinking about it. Yeah, and I didn't even know that I really could do this. Do you know what I mean like so I I kind of found out something about myself I just realized at that time and then I just really started listening even now when I'm in the car and listen to music I'll just start scatting to things because that's really what it is.

[41:32] Yvette Cason: And um, can I just like be in your back seat? You can like a creepy like a creepy guy. All I want to do is listen to you. It's like who's the little white guy in the back seat, oh, he's just a guy that rides around he just with the boom mic just scatting but it really is. I feel like it's such a gift and I don't take it lightly. So when Shelton said this is something use this. This is your moment. I was like okay let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah, we came up with that in um rehearsal. He said no I want you to teach him to scat. It's so it's such a great moment in the entire show and the way that you guys recorded it on the cast album is you get such a great idea for the scene in terms of teaching and you try to start out basic, but then like you just can't help yourself.

I get into my own. Yeah, I just get into you know, it's like I'm in it now like it's like getting the feel and getting you know, it's church. Yeah. Yeah feeling the spirit to get the holy ghost and you just you just lose it and that's what happened and that's actually what Sheldon wanted, you know, he said just give him the basics but then you being Miss Mary you just lose it and you just go into your own and it was so much fun to do. That's so wonderful. I love this idea of improv, which I think is in many ways one of the things that makes jazz so special because you have to have the natural talent you have to have the ear to understand like what the melody is what key you're in but then you also have to have the freedom to let go and just play and not judge and what a beautiful principle.

[43:13] Yvette Cason: And that's the brilliance of Ella Fitzgerald, like she's the queen of it. Man, I've listened to her and I mean, I have gone over—I actually played her in a musical called Ella Fitzgerald: The Musical. One of the things I did when I was studying, really studying her, I would listen over and over and over and over and over. There were some things that just can't be duplicated, like no matter how much I slowed it down or how I listened to it, because it's just her thing. Like I have my thing and you have your thing, everybody has their own. So the scat's never gonna be the same, and that's why people just usually do a basic scooby-dooby-dooby, ba-da-ba-doo-bop, ba-di-ba-di-ba-doo-bop bit, you know? That's a basic scat, but you can get into a little more, you know? It's like a fingerprint in a way; it's your own DNA. It's like your own scat DNA.

[44:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow, that's so cool.

[44:39] Yvette Cason: Yeah, that's the way I look at it. That's beautiful. All right, so by the end of the song, Rev figures out at least how to create harmony with you three, and you send him on his merry way.

[44:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That is right. The love triangle gets even more complex, of course, because Lady Liv is in love with Vi, Vi falls in love with Duke, Duke is still in love with Lady Liv. They sing "I Got It Bad (And That Ain't Good)," another great song. They sing "Hit Me with a Hot Note and Watch Me Bounce." From here on out, and correct me if I'm wrong, that's kind of the whole plot of the show. The rest of it is just about how we get back with the people that we need to be with, but along the way we have all of these numbers: "I'm Just a Lucky So-and-So" for André De Shields, love it! "Solitude," which is this gorgeous quartet for Vi, Duke, Lady Liv, and Rev.

[45:36] Yvette Cason: Yeah, that was a really wonderful moment in the show.

[45:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the end of the first act too.

[45:40] Yvette Cason: Yep, mm-hmm. The second act has what I believe is the definition of a torch song: "I Ain't Got Nothing But the Blues." Rev comes back out. Now, in Twelfth Night, is it Malvolio who comes out dressed in the yellow stockings and suspenders, right, to try and show that he's fun? In Play On!, Rev comes out in a full bright yellow zoot suit, looking cooler than Malvolio should ever. But he sings "I'm Beginning to See the Light," another great song. That was a great number too. Vi sings "I Didn't Know About You." Now we just start getting into, I mean, showstopper after showstopper. "Rocks in My Bed," that's the showstopper for me.

[46:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I would stand in the wings to watch Larry and André. It was my husband; every time he saw the show—and he saw it a lot—he said that was his favorite number. He just loved it, and it is! It's because it's just two guys kicking it, drinking, and it would just go on and on, and they were having so much fun. So that was one of my favorite moments in the show to watch.

[47:02] Yvette Cason: And it's all born out of the fact that he's in trouble with your man, Swedes. Yep. Is he flirting with the Kochek girl, CeCe, or something like that? Is that why Miss Man gets mad?

[47:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, you're good, 'cause I had to go back and think about, like, why was I mad at him? That was it. Yes, and he's always up to something. Didn't take more; she loved him though. She didn't care, you know? So Swedes and Jester do this great song about how they ain't got nothing in their bed but rocks. Yep, great song. It even has its own encore, which you know it's a showstopper when it's got it. So I love—I called it the James Brown moment, you know how he goes off and then he comes back on?

[47:38] Yvette Cason: Yeah, that's amazing.

[47:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The Swedes and Miss Mary have an opportunity to reconnect even after that, and they sing such a sweet song, "Love You Madly."

[47:44] Yvette Cason: Yeah, that was cute. It's such a cute song. Another great little thing in the cast album for that song, of course, Miss Mary is mad at Swedes, and you say something like, "Now you know the only reason I'm going with you is because I can't get a cab," which is a really funny line. But once again, it also talks somewhat to, I think, the Black experience of being in Harlem, being a woman.

[48:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it speaks to that.

[48:18] Yvette Cason: Yeah, the whole sexism, yeah too. I love the show because it is so fun, so energetic, but has all of these little things that when you look a little closer are saying something. And that's into the brilliance of Cheryl, because she wrote the book.

[48:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, Cheryl L. West, who, like you said, wrote the book, is someone who you've collaborated with several times, right? Didn't she do Shout?

[48:41] Yvette Cason: She did Shout, Sister, Shout!

[48:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And who did you play in that?

[48:46] Yvette Cason: I played Mahalia Jackson.

[48:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mahalia, yeah, man. Yeah, that was really a lot of fun too. I actually like playing real people. It's a challenge, but it's because you'll never be that person. But if you can bring the essence of that person, then I feel like you've done your job. And it required, you know, me padding a little bit because Mahalia was a heavier set woman and kind of lowering my voice because when she sang, so my singing voice was different. And I like those challenges. We have such a rich history of incredible Black artists.

[49:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, yeah, need to be celebrated.

[49:28] Yvette Cason: That's so cool. I'm glad that you've had such...

[49:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you.

[49:33] Yvette Cason: You know, and I did Ella every night. I would just—I had her picture there, and I sort of spoke to her because I needed her to channel. I needed you, and I just wanted to make her proud. And, you know, for people when they leave, to celebrate her, to celebrate her in the way that she should be celebrated, as every character that we do in that way.

[50:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think you're gonna get to my other song that I absolutely love, which was "Something to Live For" that Duke Ellington wrote with Billy Strayhorn.

[50:04] Yvette Cason: Oh, talk to me about that one. Where does that come in the show?

[50:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's in the second act. That was sung by Lady Liv, really, because I didn't make it on the cast album, I don't think so. No, but I love that song because I actually sang it with Ella. It was one of the songs that I got to sing, and it just happens to be one of my favorite songs that I sing anyway in my repertoire.

[50:21] Yvette Cason: That one at all? I'm gonna—okay, yes, go look that one up.

[50:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, Billy Strayhorn, you know who he is?

[50:29] Yvette Cason: Yeah, yeah, of course. There's just a Duke Ellington work with him, and it's one—it's a beautiful song.

[50:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh yeah. Now, in Twelfth Night, there's like the whole thing with the twin brother, and then there's like a whole duel that doesn't really happen in Play On! So what ends up happening is, of course, there's that famous Duke Ellington song "Prelude to a Kiss," in which Vi, before she's decided she's going to leave because there's all of this drama with Lady Liv and Rev and etc., etc., so she's going to leave. But before she leaves, she is going to play this song for Duke and ask for his help to finish the lyric. So she starts playing this song, and he's the one who thinks of it. And the reason he thinks of it is because he realizes this whole song is the prelude to their kiss. Everyone's identities are revealed: who ends up with who. We got Duke ending up with Vi, we have Lady Liv ending up with Rev. Is that true? They do end up together?

[51:30] Yvette Cason: They end up together. We got Miss Marion and Swedes, of course, and then Jester ended up with his girlfriend CeCe, the Kochek girl.

[51:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, what's really fun about that character is that he's probably the most quote-unquote Shakespearean out of everyone because he's talking in this jive type prose that almost sounds like Shakespearean verse. And so he is the one who delivers, of course, the ending speech of "If music is the food of life, then let us play on."

[52:03] Yvette Cason: Yeah, the whole show ends with "In a Mellow Tone," the big number. Yes, but once again, you've got Luther Henderson who's arranging and orchestrating, so he was able to craft these songs, I think, in a specific way for the musical. So even the end of the whole show, it just keeps repeating "Play On!"

[52:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my gosh, it's so joyful.

[52:29] Yvette Cason: Yeah, I'm really glad you enjoy it because it was such a fun show. It was hard to even believe that it didn't run longer because it was so different than anything else, you know, on Broadway at that time. And being in New York, Harlem, like literally, you know, up the road, of course, we just felt like, "Oh, this can't lose. No brainer."

[52:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it was definitely disappointing, but I find it has a life. You know, my manager, who is my manager now, when he met me, he was like, "I loved Play On!" He talked about it like you talk about Play On! I had no idea. And so there are people that loved it. They love it. They still love it.

[53:07] Yvette Cason: Yeah, and you were—let me see when that happened. How old were you? Because that was 1997.

[53:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, so I was like 15.

[53:14] Yvette Cason: Oh my gosh, yeah, baby!

[53:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I had a Christmas list.

[53:23] Yvette Cason: Thank you! What are your parents' names?

[53:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Doug and Carla.

[53:28] Yvette Cason: Doug, thank you! Doug and Carla. But it's true, and I am so grateful for it because it opened my eyes to a whole area of music I didn't know. Now, the last thing I kind of want to talk about with the show is that jukebox musicals became a thing after Play On! And in the early '80s, there was a show called Sophisticated Ladies.

[53:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that's right.

[53:48] Yvette Cason: That was a review of Duke Ellington music, all told in kind of a big glorious Follies meets Cotton Club sort of review. So here's my question: would you rather see a jukebox musical, a catalog of songs strung together by a story, or would you rather see a review?

[54:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Does it depend?

[54:07] Yvette Cason: It depends, you know? It really does. I mean, Sophisticated Ladies was really special. I just thought about the—yeah, 'cause Gregory Hines was in that show.

[54:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That cast was ridiculous.

[54:26] Yvette Cason: If you have a good book, I do the jukebox musical. It also depends on, for me, on the catalog of songs, you know, and the approach that you take to it. In the case of Play On!, I feel like you've got music that is so dynamic that I want it to be connected to choices and characters, you know what I mean? Where you can see how the story would elevate the music. Do I feel that way about Mamma Mia? I don't know, but that's kind of up to—you know, there are other people who love that show. That show went on and on, ran longer than Play On! right? And I was like, "But you know, there's an audience for everything." And the audience is going to be a certain demographic, let's not kid ourselves.

[55:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, look, this show has enabled us to discuss a gorgeous tapestry of art in our country, in our history, and I'm so grateful that you were a part of it. And I'm so grateful that you took the time to be with me today. So thank you.

[55:28] Yvette Cason: I enjoyed it, Jeffrey, and thank you for choosing this song, especially during Black History Month. This show is near and dear to me, and you've certainly done your homework. You evoke some memories. I was like, "Oh yeah, that's right after that." I've had to—oh my gosh, I can't even—oh yeah, that's right, that happened.

[55:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, thank you so much. I have enjoyed it. Thank you. As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on A Musical Theatre Podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcast@gmail.com. Don't forget to follow us on social media, Twitter and Instagram at @amusicalpodcast for more great content. And while you're at it, head on over to our TeePublic store, where we have great designs based on shows past and present. Yvette, how can we keep up to date with everything you're up to?

[56:22] Yvette Cason: Well, you can keep up to date with me. I am on social media. I'm on Instagram; I am that Yvette, V-E-T-E, and Twitter at Yvette Cason. And yes, I am still—as my son says, Facebook is for old people—but I am still on Facebook under Yvette Cason. I don't know if any of your listeners are on Facebook, but I definitely IG and Twitter. And I'm on a podcast next week with Angela Robinson, who I did Play On! with.

[56:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're kidding! What's that?

[56:53] Yvette Cason: That's amazing! What podcast?

[56:56] Yvette Cason: Artist Talk.

[56:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Artist Talk, beautiful! So we'll link that in the episode.

[57:01] Yvette Cason: Yes, please! And come check me out; I'd like that. It's a worthy checkout in my estimations.

[57:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I totally agree. Thank you.

[57:14] Yvette Cason: Thank you, thank you, thank you! Thank you again, Yvette, and to everybody out there, Play On!