This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: To any out there who feel like SHREK should never have been made into a musical because it's a film or it was just like some, you know, corporate opportunistic decision, I just want to remind everyone, you're wrong, number one. And how dare you? But also a reminder that this story started out as like a storybook, as a children's book.

[0:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A children's book in 1990 by a writer and cartoonist named William Steig. I don't remember how to pronounce his name. I apologize. But it's loosely based on the story. And it's called SHREK exclamation point. Now, you cannot tell me that a source material that ends with an exclamation point should not automatically be turned into a musical. Am I right? Can I get an amen?

[0:57] Martín Acuña: Amen.

[0:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff.

[1:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Today, we are discussing SHREK the musical, which was a listener request from both Casey and Marty, both of whom, by the way, could have been great guests on the episode because I love their takes. Marty said it's unironically her favorite musical. And Casey has maybe my favorite review of this musical ever, quote, this show has absolutely no right being as good as it is, unquote.

[1:44] Martín Acuña: I agree. I agree. Totally.

[1:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fantastic. Joining me to discuss this musical is one of my favorite kinds of people. And that is someone whose love for the musical theater is pure. I'm talking pure as any fairy tale type love. He's the host of Backstage Talk, which is the first, correct me if I'm wrong, Martin, the first musical theater podcast to be bilingual. True?

[2:09] Martín Acuña: Yes.

[2:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like, there have been other podcasts that are not running anymore that were solely in Spanish. And the Broadway Podcast Network is the major one-stop shop for podcasts about theater or Broadway or musical theater in English. But Backstage Talk makes both.

[2:27] Martín Acuña: You better get that BPN commercial in there, Martin. Good job.

[2:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But yeah, Backstage Talk offers content in both languages. So we are.

[2:36] Martín Acuña: That's fantastic.

[2:37] Martín Acuña: Yeah, as of right now, we're the only one doing that. And we are like the only recurring podcast in Spanish about musical theater. So yeah, that's us.

[2:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Incredible. In any case, he's from Bogota, Colombia, where he currently is and where you're also an artist and a communications pro. Anyway, everyone, please give a big bienvenido a Martin Acuna.

[3:00] Martín Acuña: Yay! I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

[3:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Pues gracias por estar conmigo hoy. I knew I wanted you to be on a musical theater podcast at some point. And what I ended up learning about you is that like there isn't like a whole lot of musical theater in Colombia.

[3:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so your way into the art form was by coming in contact with like big mega shows, Lion King, that are meant to engage young children. So because of that, Shrek felt like a good match, right?

[3:31] Martín Acuña: Yeah, absolutely. What goes on in most countries of Latin America in regards of musical theater is not in like completely, but in its majority, it's seen as something for children.

[3:45] Martín Acuña: So we, specifically in Colombia, we do have one single company that has been working for the last 20-30 years in bringing the musical theater art into the country, but it stays with some shows that may be seen as for children, right?

[4:07] Martín Acuña: Things like Spongebob or Shrek, or maybe Disney. They've brought here a version of Aladdin. They brought, right before the pandemic, I think it was 2018-2019, they brought Beauty and the Beast.

[4:21] Martín Acuña: And there is also other small companies that have emerged since the late 2010s all the way through today in 2023 that are working and exploring musical theater from the traditional Colombian sound.

[4:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Love that.

[4:40] Martín Acuña: Yeah, it's a really good mix because Colombia is full of different sounds, musical sounds, and a lot of culture. So they are using that to leverage the musical theater art form in the country. So it's been great.

[4:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, can you call Shakira and be like, girl, get on it. We need a Colombian musical now.

[5:00] Martín Acuña: Honestly, I would love a jukebox musical with Shakira's music. Honestly.

[5:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Come on!

[5:07] Martín Acuña: It would be amazing.

[5:09] Martín Acuña: I'm obsessed with her. First, when I learned Spanish, Shakira was the first artist I found, like the first musical artist. And so you better believe like, Estoy Aqui is something that I sat down with and tried to memorize.

[5:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That whole section. I was like, if I can get this.

[5:27] Martín Acuña: You're going to nail the language if you have that.

[5:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Ridiculous.

[5:33] Martín Acuña: I love it.

[5:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's really cool. So talk to me about, I know your first show that you saw in New York was Lion King, right?

[5:40] Martín Acuña: Yeah, absolutely.

[5:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Have you seen Shrek on stage?

[5:44] Martín Acuña: No, actually, I've only seen the pro shot, which I am very grateful for because accessibility.

[5:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a great pro shot, by the way.

[5:52] Martín Acuña: And it's a great pro shot. Plus, it's a really good show, right? You're down and you're just going to play it because it's happy. Pink ponies, happy skies, right?

[6:04] Martín Acuña: So that can summarize my whole experience with Shrek.

[6:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, so from and I am so bad listeners, I've been meaning to apologize for this forever. Like, I'm so bad at trigger warnings. And we talk about like some pretty heavy shows with serious content.

[6:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I always think that like, you know, if we're talking about next to normal, you know, we're going to be talking about mental health and stuff like that.

[6:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But forgive me, I'm really bad at giving trigger warnings. However, I am going to give a trigger warning to Shrek and for me only because I have a little bit of a trigger with this show.

[6:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I did Shrek Jr.

[6:45] Martín Acuña: Okay.

[6:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: With it with a children's camp. And it was the most dramatic experience I've ever had in my professional career.

[6:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And yet I still like the show. But as I was going through it, all of these little moments kept coming up like, oh my gosh, trigger, trigger, trigger.

[7:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But wait a minute. Of that stupid freaking children's camp, where all they're going to do is perform for their parents. Like they might as well use the think system and they're going to get a standing ovation.

[7:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Why was this so traumatic for me?

[7:20] Martín Acuña: But wait a minute, which character were you? Were you ensemble?

[7:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I wasn't even in it. I was musically directing and choreographing.

[7:29] Martín Acuña: Okay.

[7:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I was just having them like march in a circle during things are looking up here in Duloc. And truly, it shivers down my spine, Martine.

[7:46] Martín Acuña: Anyway.

[7:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I truly cannot imagine that.

[7:50] Martín Acuña: But it's okay. It's okay.

[7:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The children were amazing, by the way. I love them.

[7:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They had the time of their lives. So who am I? What do my feelings matter? That being said, it is a really great show. And I tried as often as I could to remind the adults who were working on that production with me that we're talking about a musical written by two Pulitzer Prize winning writers.

[8:17] Martín Acuña: Yeah.

[8:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We're not better than this show. Never.

[8:21] Martín Acuña: Absolutely never.

[8:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Never, never. But before we get there, we need to talk about Shrek as an intellectual property in general. Did you grow up with the movie?

[8:34] Martín Acuña: Absolutely.

[8:35] Martín Acuña: Did you like it? Did you love it?

[8:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm not sure. You look gorgeous, but I can't tell how old you are.

[8:41] Martín Acuña: Well, I'm 28, turning 29 in May this year.

[8:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's awesome. Yes. But I did grow up with this movie, and Shrek 1 and 2 are good.

[8:53] Martín Acuña: The third one, it starts lacking.

[8:55] Martín Acuña: The fourth one, I'm like, wait, is this still going? What is even happening?

[8:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, what is even happening?

[9:00] Martín Acuña: And then out of the blue, we have Merlin and King Arthur, and I'm just like, what? I don't get it.

[9:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But the Puss in Boots movies, they're good.

[9:10] Martín Acuña: I saw the second one last week.

[9:12] Martín Acuña: I heard that this newest one is actually pretty decent.

[9:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I will never watch it, but I hear it's pretty good.

[9:18] Martín Acuña: But going back to your original question, I did grow up watching these movies. Fortunately for me, unfortunately to you and American listeners, the Spanish version is way better than the English version.

[9:33] Martín Acuña: Let me tell you, donkey.

[9:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Look, I am not usually a nationalistic person, but I feel a little bit like, don't come for my English version.

[9:41] Martín Acuña: Okay, Will Smith is amazing. I'm not going to say otherwise.

[9:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wait, Will Smith, you mean Eddie Murphy?

[9:51] Martín Acuña: Oh, that hurt me.

[9:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Eddie Murphy is amazing. Sorry, listeners and sorry to the fans, but Eddie Murphy is amazing.

[10:02] Martín Acuña: He is incredible.

[10:03] Martín Acuña: But the donkey in Spanish, it's iconic.

[10:08] Martín Acuña: Iconic. The jokes translated into Spanish are top-notch.

[10:15] Martín Acuña: Top-notch content. Trust me.

[10:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love that so much. You need to see it because it's so Latin and I love it.

[10:23] Martín Acuña: It's like, how is this not a Latin American thing first?

[10:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, absolutely. That's so cool. How fun.

[10:31] Martín Acuña: Okay, definitely have to check that out then.

[10:34] Martín Acuña: I saw Shrek 2 before Shrek 1.

[10:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really?

[10:37] Martín Acuña: If I'm being totally honest, yeah.

[10:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Why?

[10:40] Martín Acuña: Because that's how I am. Look, Disney purist over here, grew up on Disney, very suspicious of anything that's not Disney.

[10:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[10:52] Martín Acuña: That's just how I was raised. And so I definitely did not see, especially since Shrek seemed to be like the anti-Disney, I was like, no thanks, right? No way.

[11:03] Martín Acuña: Yeah, yeah, mahalo and goodbye. So when Shrek 2 came around, I think a lot of friends were, we were all going to go see it in the movie theaters.

[11:11] Martín Acuña: And I have to say that my experience watching Shrek 2 in a sold-out movie theater was probably the first time that I really understood the power of movies.

[11:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[11:26] Martín Acuña: Because everybody had such a slam in time and the soundtrack to Shrek 2 is off the charts. Like that version of Holding Out for a Hero that Jennifer Saunders sings totally slaps.

[11:41] Martín Acuña: We had so much fun and I left the theater feeling like a million freaking bucks.

[11:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I've since gone back and watched Shrek 2 and I don't think I will ever like it as much as I liked it that first time, but it really was a transformational experience. It was so much fun.

[11:57] Martín Acuña: I agree. Shrek 2 is good. Now, Shrek 1, however, is a fantastic movie and I've since gone back and it is quite good. I do have some thoughts about it.

[12:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay. So to get to those, let's go back in time even further and talk about Jeffrey Katzenberg. So Jeffrey Katzenberg was in charge of Walt Disney Animation during the Disney Renaissance, kind of the early 90s.

[12:24] Martín Acuña: Love him or hate him, he's a pretty important guy in culture, but during his time at Walt Disney, he's known infamously for rubbing everybody the wrong way. He tried to cut "Part of Your World" from The Little Mermaid. He was convinced Pocahontas was the project, and he couldn't have cared less about The Lion King. And what did turn out happening? Exactly, exactly. But at the same time, he was also incredibly savvy and one of the reasons for that huge string of incredible successes. The president of the Walt Disney Company, Frank Wells, dies tragically in a helicopter accident. And Jeffrey Katzenberg, from what I understand, and this is hearsay—who am I? I don't even know these people—but from what I understand, he thought he was going to be named the new president of the Walt Disney Company.

He gets passed over, he does not get chosen, and so he, for all intents and purposes, feels that he is forced to resign. So he leaves Disney, and not only does he leave, but he leaves and starts this brand new film studio with none other than freaking Steven Spielberg and David Geffen, and they call it DreamWorks. DreamWorks is this new company; it's going to be the biggest thing, but the most enduring legacy of DreamWorks has been the animation department that he oversaw. And the film Shrek really came out of this studio with the intention of Katzenberg giving Disney the middle finger. So from the get-go, whenever I see Shrek, I just feel the intention of Katzenberg being like, "I'm going to show you, Disney, you're not the only ones who can do this."

And, I mean, he was right. Shrek became a huge hit, ended up winning the first Oscar for Best Animated Feature over Pixar and Disney. But I think that before Shrek, DreamWorks had a couple of... It had Prince of Egypt, which was huge. Yeah, exactly, that was where I was going to. But it had a very early flop with Ants, which is exactly a copy of Bugs Life.

[14:38] Martín Acuña: Yeah, no, that came out right at the same time. Talk about zeitgeist, you know what I mean? And the Ants movie, it's just, like, painful to watch because the animations are so, like, sharp and squared. Meanwhile, they're not friendly animations. And then they have Prince of Egypt, in which it's still a very squared animation, but it has songs. Like, we have Helen Simmer and Stephen Schwartz working together. So you're saying, like, the DreamWorks animation felt very angular and kind of unappealing.

[15:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, until, like, Chicken Run, which is amazing.

[15:18] Martín Acuña: Chicken Run was great. Yeah, Chicken Run is great because if you see Ants, Prince of Egypt, and The Road to El Dorado, they are, like, very squared, right? They don't... They're not curvy. They're not soft. They're very angular. But then you have Chicken Run, and then you have Joseph: King of Dreams, which I do not recall at all.

[15:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And this was November 7th, 2000. That was more of a straight-to-video type situation.

[15:46] Martín Acuña: Yeah. And then you have Shrek, which is May of 2001, right? And after that...

[15:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that's the reason why I didn't see it. May 2001, I was on my mission for my church, so I didn't see anything.

[15:57] Martín Acuña: Yeah. There you go. And then, from then, like, after Shrek, you have a lot of other movies, which are more amicable to the eye. You have Spirit, you have Sinbad, you have Shrek 2, and then... Oh my gosh, just the love of every 11-year-old girl.

[16:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Until you have, all the way into the 2010s, you have Kung Fu Panda, which...

[16:28] Martín Acuña: Another great franchise.

[16:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And then you have How to Train Your Dragon, which...

[16:40] Martín Acuña: Oh my gosh, maybe one of the best franchises of all time.

[16:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. It's a really good franchise. Not my favorite, because I'm also a Disney kid.

[16:50] Martín Acuña: Mm-hmm.

[16:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And if I had to choose between, like, Shrek, Kung Fu Panda, and How to Train Your Dragon, Kung Fu Panda's my guy.

[16:59] Martín Acuña: Really?

[17:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Even Poe loving Shrek.

[17:03] Martín Acuña: Yeah. No, I get that. I get that. I'm loving this conversation. It's just, like, full of nostalgia for me. The throwbacks.

[17:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, if we're zooming in a little bit more culturally, and actually now I'm gonna talk more about the kiddos that I work with. I feel like, growing up, I knew that there was a time when, in childhood, when, like, you were all of a sudden aware of what other people thought of you, and it was time to be, like, cool.

[17:31] Martín Acuña: Yeah.

[17:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know what I mean? Like, all of a sudden... And this is when, like, people start thinking musical theater is nerdy or stupid. It's because, like, all of a sudden it requires too much of you to invest, and so then you're like, "I can't go there. Won't look cool. People will make fun of me." I used to think that that happened around the fourth, fifth grade area of elementary school, and if you were able to, like, get through fifth grade still loving musicals, like, you're good to go.

[18:03] Martín Acuña: Yeah.

[18:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, you will be a fan for life. Working with some children over the past couple years, that has now gone down to second or third grade.

[18:10] Martín Acuña: That's pretty young and pretty savage.

[18:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, it's incredibly young and very savage. If I'm working with, like, kindergartners, first graders, they're still, like, fully imagination. Yes, let's play. Fun. And then, like, the second and third graders will come in, and within that group, there will be people saying things like, "Oh, that's so cringy. Oh, like, that's so sus," which is, like, the new thing, right? And I'm like, whoa, this is already happening in second and third grade, this self-awareness. And might I say, like, judgment masked as self-awareness. And sometimes I feel like that's Shrek's fault.

[18:58] Martín Acuña: I know. I know. It might be a big ask, but I feel like around the time that Shrek came out, all of a sudden, like, fairy tales weren't fairy tales anymore. Disney wasn't Disney anymore. Like, we had to put on this lens of judgment and cynicism in order for it to be even palatable to children anymore. And that has only continued, and Disney is incredibly guilty of this as well. I've watched Disney Channel shows with my—excuse me—like, Disney Plus shows with my nieces and nephews, and the comedy that they do is very, like, fold your arms and give, like, a judgmental look. Like, that is very much the comedy. So they are not without blame. But I say it kiddingly that it's Shrek's fault, and I know it's not, but it is this match for where we are in the culture at the time that things just become getting jaded at a younger age.

And that's how I feel about that. Do you know what I mean, though? Like, we have an entire generation who grows up thinking, like, Pinocchio wears thongs, which is very different than a generation that thinks, like, Pinocchio just wants to be a real boy and is earnest about it. You know? And I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm just saying it's very different, and this feels like it's at the pivot point.

[20:26] Martín Acuña: I absolutely agree with you. I don't know if it's Shrek's fault, but I do agree that...

[20:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, it's definitely not. But Shrek's also, like, earned billions of dollars, so I'm more than happy to give it the blame.

[20:36] Martín Acuña: Yeah, but I do agree that, first, these new generations, or the new generations, are all, like, judgy, thanks to a lot of media. And it's not their fault.

[20:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's not their fault, but it's the media they grew up with. It's the media they were consuming. For example, for me, Shrek, both movie, the franchise, and the musical is about belonging. I think it is about belonging.

[21:01] Martín Acuña: I totally agree with you, and I think that that is what gives the story staying power.

[21:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And what I love about the musical, because now we can pivot into the musical, is that it only enriches those inner lives, insecurities, and vulnerabilities that are certainly in the films, but it brings it to a whole other level. And so, in many ways, I appreciate the characters even more in the musical because of what they're able to share and communicate, and it balances out some of that cynicism for me.

[21:36] Martín Acuña: Absolutely, and I do remember in the first movie, if they tell us that backstory with which the musical starts.

[21:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The once-upon-a-time sort of thing?

[21:55] Martín Acuña: Yeah, but the part of—and spoilers, sorry for this—but if you haven't seen Shrek the Musical, that beginning part of Shrek and his parents, and at the age of seven, kicking him out of their home for him to go and find his own. I don't remember if that part is in the first movie, but I do appreciate they give me that, because that sets my whole story in the musical, and that makes a whole lot of sense when we see the character development in Shrek, and we see the other character developments in the donkey, and Fiona, and the rest of the fairy tale characters, right? This song, this amazing song that the whole ensemble sing when they're moved out of Duloc into the swamp. They all just want to belong, right?

And that is the constant theme in this musical. Everyone wants to belong to something, and it certainly happened to me, I know it probably happened to you, and to every other person that loves musical theater, we found that here we belong. In musical theater, we belong.

[23:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It certainly didn't happen while I was in high school. Like, I was the black sheep in my school. I grew up in an all-males Catholic high school, and I always had a lot of questions, and their leitmotif was the best of the best. So trust me, I grew up with a lot of judgy teenagers that either they wanted to be soccer players or have a lot of money. And I didn't want to be both. I didn't want to be either of those. I wanted to be an artist, right? So I was always trying to push the boundaries growing up in high school. And that's why I love that Shrek in its entirety. It's about belonging to someone, to somewhere, to a group of people, or to a place.

[24:11] Martín Acuña: To yourself, even?

[24:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, exactly. Most importantly, to yourself.

[24:16] Martín Acuña: Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. I really want to dive into the show because this is so fun, and I'm sure that other things will come up as we talk about it. But like you said, the show begins with this prologue where we meet Shrek and his parents, where they sing an entire song to him about what to expect in the world. It's called "Big Bright Beautiful World." Every song in this show is just so hummable and wonderful. And Janine Tesori...

[24:48] Martín Acuña: Continues to be the most multifaceted, incredible queen of musical theatre. It's insane. She can do anything. When you think that she... Thoroughly Modern Millie, to Carolina Change, to Fun Home, to Shrek, to Violet, Kimberly Akimbo, to Violet. Truly, this woman is just amazing. And it's all over the place here. So, Big Bright Beautiful World, gorgeous song. And immediately what pops out to me is that I feel like the thesis about this musical are what are the stories we tell our children. Ooh, that's deep. Because, yes. Truly. Yeah. And we run into it consistently throughout the story. What are the stories we tell ourselves? Where do they come from? And when do we decide that we get to write our own story?

Yeah. When is it enough of other people writing our own story? Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And so, Shrek is told from the get-go, you're ugly, son. Yeah. Which means that life is harder, right? People cannot change the... People cannot face the things they don't understand. Anyway, something like that. David Lindsay at Bear, doing great work. But it's all about him, this indoctrination. He's told, you're going out into this world. It's beautiful, but not for you. People are going to chase you around with pitchforks. And sorry, but that's just the way it is. So, of course, when Shrek grows up and becomes Brian D.R.C. James, the first thing that he says is, this is my Big Bright Beautiful World.

It's all by myself. I don't need to worry about any of these outside forces that I've been told. All my life will bring me nothing but pain and fear. So, I'm just going to be in the swamp, making myself as disgusting as possible to make sure that that's the way it stays.

[27:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Which is a really good lesson for all of us. We cannot do things siloed, right? We always need community. So, that is, and threading this back to the belonging, that is also something that happens with Dunkey's first song, which is Don't Let Me Go. And he is like, I'm going to be here for you. And all this, tell a friendship, and song about friendship, and being there, and support.

[27:24] Martín Acuña: Absolutely.

[27:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. That then transforms Shrek's point of view on, yeah, it's a Big Bright Beautiful World that I can still co-create by being with someone else, right?

[27:39] Martín Acuña: Yeah. Well, and how often are we our own self-fulfilling prophecy? We create this world of limitations to make sure that we don't excel beyond them. I think we all do that. This is really based in some pretty profound psychology, I think.

[28:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, absolutely. Also, I'm a person that I do really enjoy my alone time.

[28:10] Martín Acuña: Oh, for sure.

[28:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, I do a lot of things by myself, right? And for myself, on my own, absolutely on my own.

[28:20] Martín Acuña: Got a little Eponine on our hands here.

[28:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. And it absolutely makes sense, too. Sometimes it's a need, but it cannot be forever. I do think.

[28:33] Martín Acuña: There it is.

[28:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I think that is one of the biggest lessons for Shrek. He thought he could live alone in his swamp for the rest of his life. But, oh, surprise? No. A bunch of fairytale characters are going to knock on your door. And because you're this ugly, scary thing, they're going to need your help. We would have to ask the writers and everyone to see if Shrek's deepest desire was to have a family or was to have company. But I do think that he learned that he couldn't do things on his own for forever.

[29:12] Martín Acuña: Yeah. And I think that it was about learning how much of his story was just given to him by his parents in those first few minutes of the show.

[29:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[29:21] Martín Acuña: And how much of his story is what he actually wanted. Because the next, like you mentioned, the next group of people that we meet are these fairytale creatures who've been kicked out of Duloc under the grounds that they are freaks, right? That they don't belong in this kingdom. And therefore, they need to go be banished in the swamp so that the kingdom can be perfect. So, they show up and their song, Story of My Life, is yet another example of, this is my story that I'm living over and over again. I'm always a freak. I'm always unwanted. I never have a place to call my own. And that's the story of my life. So, right from the get-go, Shrek is kind of meeting people who are exactly like him. And I don't think he recognizes it. He does not see how they are the same. He just sees this group of invaders into his privacy, ruining what he thought was going to be his big, bright, beautiful world.

[30:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, he agrees, okay, I'm going to go talk to the king of Duloc, get you your homes back. And once you get your homes back, then you got to get out of my swamp so I can get back to life as normal, right? They're all very grateful. And along the way to Duloc, he gets lost and then runs into Donkey, who is currently kind of experiencing the similar fate of the other fairytale creatures, which here's this donkey who can talk. So, he's obviously a freak. He's obviously not good enough to be in Duloc. And so, these guards are trying to banish him, drag him to jail, whatever. Shrek agrees to protect him as long as Donkey can get him to Duloc.

[31:06] Martín Acuña: Now, I know that you're a big Donkey fan.

[31:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love it.

[31:08] Martín Acuña: So, who is this guy and why do we love him? Who is this guy is a wonderful, queer, incredible character that I just love. It makes me laugh. And it's so funny. And if there is ever a Shrek revival, I want to be Donkey.

[31:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Just to...

[31:30] Martín Acuña: Just put it out there.

[31:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Just to play with it. Because I think it's a character that can let you... And that is something that I really like about this type of musicals, is that since it's a fairy tale, you can do whatever the hell you want. You can build your character as you want. And I really do think that Donkey embraces all this weirdish things from all of these characters. But it's like, I'm talking Donkey. What else do you want from me?

[32:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're so right. Donkey can accept his strangeness and vulnerability in a way that Shrek cannot. And also, it's kind of second nature to him. He has no reason to try to be anything else because he knows exactly who he is. That's a really good point.

[32:23] Martín Acuña: I just love it. That character, and especially in the musicals, his songs are amazing.

[32:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Fantastic.

[32:33] Martín Acuña: Yeah. And Daniel Breaker, who's the performer for the ProShot version, it just makes me laugh a lot.

[32:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He's so great. He was on a roll there for a little bit because he's also in the ProShot of Passing Strange. And he's the lead in that. And then also Donkey and this, both incredibly different projects, incredibly different characters, and he's absolutely brilliant in both of them. So more power to you, Daniel Breaker. Let's talk a little bit more about the ProShot because it's really well filmed. And it really shows off just how darn expensive this Broadway production was. I mean, when it opened, I think it was maybe one of the most expensive Broadway musicals ever. And despite it running for a really healthy run and enjoying a lot of success, it didn't make back its money because it just cost so darn much money.

I think it's been fine now because it's had a gajillion productions. And I'm sure my production of Shrek Jr. just really pushed it over the top. But I do want to give a shout out in this ProShot, the makeup is incredible. Brian D'Arcy James, who's the actor, incredible Broadway actor voice behind Shrek, has so much expression despite being completely covered with makeup and prosthetics.

[34:00] Martín Acuña: Daniel Breaker Donkey has incredible makeup. When Fiona actually does kind of go through her ogre transformation, it's all just so gorgeous and still humanizing. You have these really tight close-ups and you still see every piece and ounce of emotion behind their eyes. It's really beautiful.

[34:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I do agree with you. And the costumes, the wardrobe department of that show must have been insane. Not only for the principals, but also for the cast and the ensemble because they had so many changes. And also the scenic design and the pieces they were bringing on stage where they do Dulux Castle. There's a giant screen that does the mirror.

[34:44] Martín Acuña: Magic mirror.

[34:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, the magic mirror. It's like, wow, I like this. They created the animation for that. It's really an impressive feat, for sure. So, I'm glad that they recorded it because nobody's going to be able to afford to do that ever again.

[35:08] Martín Acuña: No, not ever. Yeah, not ever. Unless you're, again, a big producing company like Disney.

[35:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which, speaking of, did you know, and I just saw this. I saw it on my Google search. I did not research to see if it's actually true. But I read that as of last year, Disney ended up buying Shrek, like all of the Shrek films.

[35:31] Martín Acuña: Really?

[35:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: If that's actually true. And it said that they paid $10 billion for all of the Shrek films after the first movie was made just to piss them off. That is some poetry.

[35:52] Martín Acuña: Does this mean that Fiona is a Disney princess?

[35:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I mean, that is a great question.

[35:59] Martín Acuña: Because, yeah, I could see that. Fiona being a Disney princess.

[36:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like, Fiona right next to Enchanted. What's her name? Giselle.

[36:10] Martín Acuña: They could be sisters.

[36:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But you know something that I also love that happens in the musical? They give a shout out to other musicals, including The Lion King.

[36:23] Martín Acuña: Such a good point, Martin. So true.

[36:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I actually love that part.

[36:27] Martín Acuña: The movie has so many little spoofy moments about Disney films, or just film in general. So then, of course, the stage version would need to have all of these little odes to musical theater. I love in Story of My Life when the mama bear goes, Mama's in the mud, Mama's in the dust. Like, doing her gypsy, Rose's Turn thing. It's this long, and if you know it, you know it. And if you don't, it doesn't matter. But it's fantastic.

[36:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Or Farquaad doing Elphaba's High Notes.

[37:01] Martín Acuña: It's just like, I love it. I mean, I love it.

[37:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Let's talk about Farquaad, because I'm not sure that there is a villain in musical theater that we love.

[37:12] Martín Acuña: To love as much as Farquaad and I don't I didn't say love to hate like I think we just love to love Farquaad period. I mean he is so absurd that you just end up, yeah, I do hate him but because of the movie version but because of the musical version it's like, oh you're a little dwarf let me hug you. Farquaad is, and like I just, I just love how they've structured it where he's like banishing all of the freaks once again psychologically out of his own, you know, denial of him being a dwarf. It's just, it's so fantastic. So we go to Duloc and we see this perfect place, you know, where everybody, what is that line in, in things are looking up here in Duloc, no one from the gutter in Duloc, embrace the cookie cutter in Duloc, the upshot is enormous when you can shout conform us.

Come on, that's some, that's brilliant writing. So now let's shout out David Lindsay-Abaire who is the book writer and lyricist for this musical. Not always known for musicals, he's probably more well known for his Pulitzer Prize winning plays like Rabbit Hole and Good People. He does really profound, serious, often devastating works and now here he is working on Shrek. I wish I had maybe found a quote or two from him that helped us to know even why he wanted to do this other than money. I think it's because he was working with Jeanine Tesori, which he's doing again with Kimberly Akimbo, which the cast recording that was just released, it was just a joy to listen to. I haven't listened to it yet because I want to see it first.

I don't know if that's going to happen but I really wanted to. So Shrek and Donkey come to Duloc, yeah, we meet Farquaad who is, is he half dwarf or is he full dwarf? His dad, his father is one of like the seven dwarfs essentially, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do think he's a full dwarf but is he full? Who knows? They say he's a halfling and I'm like, does that mean he's like half and half? I don't know. Anyway, he's this little fella played to the hilt by freaking Chris Sieber and he's on his knees for those who may not remember. He's on his knees and then he has these like legs dangling in front of his knees so it looks like, it looks like he's just waddling everywhere. It's like when people wear a raptor costume and it's so wonderful.

I still remember the first time I saw the pro shot, like I sat down and watched it completely. How are they doing, like yeah, how are they doing this for Farquaad? And then a friend of mine, he's a really good art director, you know, like, oh, it's obvious he's on his knees and the long cape is covering his legs and it was like, wait, what? Really? It's beautiful. We paused it a lot of times and we're like, but it's pitch black and he was like, that is so smart. It's so well designed. He like, he has a lot like a full movement on his knees. Yeah, like we need to get Christopher Sieber who, by the way, has done many a Broadway musical and like Spamalot, Triumph of Love, he's a wonderful, wonderful actor. We need to see, we need to check in on his cartilage, see how it's going, you know?

[41:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely. Or to share the knee pads.

[41:12] Martín Acuña: Yeah, exactly. Let's get that knee pad out there. I don't know why, I would never mind, that sounds like a dirty joke that I'm not going to go to. So they meet Lord Farquaad and Farquaad in order to become like the true king of this kingdom, he needs to have a queen. The magic mirror shows him his three contestants in kind of like a game show sort of way. They're like Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Fiona, and he ends up picking Fiona, right? But in order to get Fiona, she's like in this tower, she's guarded by a fire-breathing dragon, there's like hot lava everywhere. He's like, well, I'm definitely not going to do that. Donkey and Shrek show up. Now this deal gets even more complicated by him saying, all right, well I'll get you your swamp back, which means the creatures will be out of there if you'll help me by getting Fiona from the tower.

So Shrek and Donkey go off to find Fiona. One of my favorite songs in the entire show, Travel Song, yeah, it's the one that will like be in my head when I wake up in the morning. I always wake, I don't know if you're like this, but whenever I wake up, I always have a song in my head every morning and sometimes it's Shania Twain and sometimes it's, you know, Travel Song from Shrek. I have no rhyme or reason. They find their way to the castle, they run into the dragon. Everybody kind of knows this story because of the movie. The dragon though, I find is really an interesting part of this musical because it's the thing that has changed the most. When the musical first premiered out of town at the Fifth Avenue Theater in Seattle, the dragon was one character, one person, and then when it moved to Broadway and now as is reflected in the pro shot, it became three actresses all voicing the dragon as kind of like this sick doo-wop trio with a huge, huge puppet.

And then that changed again for the tour and that song that's in the pro shot got thrown out and now it's this song called Forever, which actually slaps really hard. It's a really great song and I'm sad that it's not on the original cast album and it is just voiced by one person off stage and like a puppet on stage.

[43:38] Martín Acuña: You're gonna stay, you're gonna stay. Anyway, the dragon falls madly in love with Donkey and so that becomes the distraction for Shrek to then go up and save Fiona. And yeah, if anybody can listen to that song Forever, it's great. I need to look that up. Obviously a lot of songs and scenes and stuff get cut from shows from their out of town trials to the way to Broadway and then on tour, but I didn't know that. I need to look that up. This is probably the piece of the show that has changed the most. Do you know what? I'm so sorry, we completely skipped Fiona and I know it's today, my bad, my bad. Can we rewind real quick? Because going back to my original thesis about what are the stories that we tell ourselves or are told to us, yeah, our introduction to Fiona is actually mini Fiona and we see her in three different stages, the last one being fully adult Fiona.

In each iteration, there is this little princess all alone in a tower, very much kind of like reading fairy tales like Shrek alone in the swamp, right? The difference here is that she has been told that she must wait, wait, wait, wait for someone to come rescue her. It's going to be her knight in shining armor and she just has to be ready. So now it's this waiting game and so then we see her as a teenager still waiting and then her as an adult. And I think that maybe for me personally, like I really connect to that. I grew up thinking I was going to get married to a woman and have kids. That was on the checklist thing and then all of a sudden it wasn't happening and I had to like figure out why it wasn't happening and that led me down like a whole, well I guess my path, not just the path that somebody was telling me.

And so I maybe that's why I'm so like sensitive to this part of the show is I see all of these characters being told this is your story and then each one of them being awakened to, wow, this isn't going exactly how I was told it would be.

[47:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All right, so let's go back to this is how a dream comes true. You said you love this number. Why do you love this number so much?

[48:00] Martín Acuña: The comedy in this number from Fiona, again going back to Sutton Foster, she is a mastermind in this craft. Like she sings, she acts, she taps her little face off. She has just this timing thing and the faces, like she's such a goofball too. What I love the most, what I love the most about Sutton Foster in this character specifically is she is playing it and enjoying it, enjoying every single second of being Fiona. That's why I just absolutely love Sutton Foster as Fiona.

[48:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, completely agree. You were talking about that pairing of David Lindsay-Abaire and Jeanine Tesori. There's that pairing of Jeanine Tesori and Sutton Foster. Like she seems to be kind of a muse for her in many ways because of, you know, Thoroughly Modern Millie and Violet and Shrek. I mean they have such a huge working relationship together that that's like the really meaty plot stuff of the show. We can all kind of guess what happens as Shrek and Fiona get to know each other. They start to fall in love, that first because of hate and then actually because they realize they see each other in each other. But we have to stop to talk about the farting song because it's probably the only time that this will ever happen on Broadway and it's probably the only time it should ever happen on Broadway.

But it happened called I Think I Got You Beat, right? Anything you can do, I can do better and it devolves into Shrek passing gas and then Fiona's like, oh you think you can gross me out? I'm gonna gross you out. And this is part of their each of their personalities. Like Fiona grew up with a chamber pot, you know what I mean? And every morning she would boil it. Like I just love that this princess is like, let's get down to it. I'm not afraid of this stuff. Absolutely. Which also, it's amazing because she's breaking the stereotype of the princess, much a little bit like Mulan did for Disney in its time. But yeah, Fiona just being like, yo, honestly, we're gonna have the conversation of just because you're an ogre, you're more creepy, dirtier, disgusting than I am.

Bring, maybe not. Yeah, and it's just amazing. That was a whole three-minute laugh watching it. So it's one of my favorite parts of this whole musical and I'm sorry if you think that like you're above farting being funny, you're not. It's always gonna be funny. The number of conversations I've had with other performers about times when like somebody's farted on stage and like you have to keep a straight face even though your eyes are watering, you know, like those sorts of things just make me giggle beyond all measure. It's hilarious. But let's talk about one another of my favorite moments from this show is when three little funny characters appear on stage and it's the blind mice. I love them in the movie and in the show when they're singing Make a Move with Donkey. It's just like, hell yes.

[49:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome back to A Musical Theatre Podcast. Today, we're diving into the world of SHREK THE MUSICAL, a show that, as our listener Casey pointed out, "has absolutely no right being as good as it is."

[50:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: With two Pulitzer Prize-winning writers behind it, you might be surprised to discover how deep the psychology of "the first musical with a fart song" actually goes.

[50:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Joining me today is fellow podcaster Martín Acuña, who is joining us from Bogotá, Colombia.

[50:25] Martín Acuña: Thank you for having me, Jeff! I'm really excited to talk about SHREK THE MUSICAL today.

[50:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely! So, let's start with the basics. What was your first experience with SHREK, either the film or the musical?

[50:45] Martín Acuña: I grew up watching the film, and I loved it. The humor, the characters, and the way it turned fairy tales on their heads really resonated with me. When I found out there was a musical adaptation, I was curious to see how they would translate that humor and heart to the stage.

[50:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's interesting how the musical captures the essence of the film while also adding new layers.

[51:05] Martín Acuña: Exactly! The musical expands on the characters and their journeys, especially Shrek and Fiona. It dives deeper into their insecurities and desires, which makes their story even more relatable.

[51:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the music! The score by Jeanine Tesori is fantastic. Do you have a favorite song from the show?

[51:25] Martín Acuña: I really love "I’m a Believer." It's such an upbeat and fun number, and it perfectly captures the transformation of Shrek and Fiona's relationship.

[51:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That song is a crowd-pleaser for sure! It’s amazing how it brings everyone together in the story.

[51:45] Martín Acuña: Yes, and it’s also a great moment for the ensemble. The energy is infectious, and you can feel the joy radiating from the stage.

[51:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Speaking of the ensemble, the casting choices in SHREK THE MUSICAL are quite unique. What do you think about the character portrayals?

[52:05] Martín Acuña: I think they did a brilliant job. Each character has their quirks, and the actors really bring them to life. For example, the way they portray Donkey is so lively and humorous, which adds a lot to the dynamic between him and Shrek.

[52:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Donkey is such a pivotal character. His friendship with Shrek is central to the story, and the humor he brings is essential.

[52:25] Martín Acuña: Absolutely! And the way they explore themes of friendship and acceptance through their relationship is really touching.

[52:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It’s a great example of how musicals can tackle deeper themes while still being entertaining.

[52:45] Martín Acuña: Yes, and I think that balance is what makes SHREK THE MUSICAL stand out. It’s not just a silly show; it has heart.

[52:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well said! Now, let’s talk about the fairy tale aspect. How do you think SHREK redefines traditional fairy tales?

[53:05] Martín Acuña: SHREK flips the script on fairy tales by showing that beauty is not just skin deep. It challenges the stereotypes of what a hero and a princess should be, which is refreshing.

[53:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That’s a powerful message. It encourages audiences to embrace their true selves, regardless of societal expectations.

[53:25] Martín Acuña: Exactly! And it’s a message that resonates with people of all ages, which is part of its charm.

[53:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It really is a timeless story. As we wrap up, what do you hope audiences take away from SHREK THE MUSICAL?

[53:45] Martín Acuña: I hope they leave feeling uplifted and inspired to embrace their uniqueness. It’s a celebration of individuality and friendship, and that’s something we all need to remember.

[53:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Beautifully said, Martín. Thank you for sharing your insights on SHREK THE MUSICAL today!

[54:05] Martín Acuña: Thank you for having me, Jeff! It was a pleasure to discuss this amazing show.

[54:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in! Be sure to check out Martín's podcast, Backstage Talk, wherever you listen to podcasts.

[54:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Don't forget to follow us on social media for more great content, and if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a rating and review.

[54:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Until next time, keep celebrating the magic of musical theatre!