This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's the scary thing about theater. It doesn't live on. But that's actually the most beautiful thing about it too. That's why it's more beautiful than film and certainly more beautiful than television because it's like life, real life. Any picture that you take or any video that you make of yourself is not really you. It's only an image that represents the experience you had. In theater, the process of it is the experience. Everyone goes through the process and everyone has the experience together. It doesn't last only in people's memories and in their hearts. That's the beauty and sadness of it. But that's life, the beauty and the sadness. And that's why theater is life.

[0:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff and I like to kick, stretch and kick. We're 50, 50 episodes. It's our 50th episode, everybody. And so it's me and you and a bunch of material that you haven't heard yet. I always intended this podcast to be conversations, not interviews, conversations in which we talk about, like I say, the cultural and emotional impact of musical theater, of this art form, of these stories. And in order to make that happen, I made a couple of rules for myself. Number one, they always needed to happen in person.

That didn't go as planned. But for the most part, the first I don't even know how many episodes were done in person. And I have to take a moment to thank my good friends Will and Colin from North Hollywood, California, who were so instrumental at the beginning of all of this. They allowed me to use their home and their recording studio. And boy, oh boy, did we learn some stuff right from the get-go. In our very first episode, we were just in this little room. It was me and Glenn Rosenblum talking about my favorite musical Fiddler on the Roof. Sorry, not sorry. And we had one microphone and Glenn is much louder than me. And so I spent like a painstaking amount of time bringing up the volume when I was talking and then bringing it down when he was talking so that we kind of sounded the same.

But it was still like a big fishbowl. Anyway, it's ridiculous and hilarious now that I look back on it. That being said, I want to go back to that initial conversation because as I've sat down with these wonderful guests who have been so kind to come on the show, each conversation lasts about an hour and a half, maybe two. And I try to get the episode itself under an hour and a half. So in order to do that, a lot gets left on the cutting room floor. Without further ado, here is a little bit from our very first episode. The Broadway revival of Fiddler came up in our conversation, the one with Alfred Molina. And after Alfred Molina, famous actor playing Tevye, left the show, they brought in two unlikely leads, Harvey Fierstein and Rosie O'Donnell. Glenn saw it, and this is what he had to say about it.

[3:32] Glenn Rosenblum: This is so funny because I taught my first class yesterday. Your musical theater class. About musicals. And we were talking about, oh my God, I was so ridiculous. I had the class cast the Hello Dolly at the end. We watched five women do the chorus, the monologue to Ephraim. Oh my God. Yes. And then Ginger Rogers, Pearl Bailey, Bernadette Peters, Bette Midler and Carol Channing. And I made the class. I'm getting back to Rosie O'Donnell. But I had them look for star power. I had them look for musicality. Oh my gosh. And I had them look for believability. But in the star power, I said to them, is that person walking the delicious fine line of, I know I'm seeing Pearl Bailey, but she's still actually completely playing. Invested. Playing. And then in this class, I brought up Rosie O'Donnell.

[4:34] Glenn Rosenblum: Oh. Because you would roll your eyes. I cannot believe we're going to see Harvey Fierstein and Rosie O'Donnell in Fiddler on the Roof. This is like the worst summer stock casting imaginable. But Rosie O'Donnell was so impressive in that production because she was just an actress for hire. And she was Golda. And she didn't even take a star bow. She took the bow where Golda should take the bow. In both of those cases, we're talking about people who love theater.

[5:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[5:06] Glenn Rosenblum: Who love musical theater. And so often when you're acquiring star power for a certain musical revival in particular, you're getting people who this makes sense for their career, but I don't know if they exactly have a passion for bringing to life these classic stories.

[5:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like NeNe Leakes and Cinderella.

[5:24] Glenn Rosenblum: Right. I'm like, I'm sure she had a great time and maybe she was really wonderful.

[5:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. So you say Rosie had the respect.

[5:30] Glenn Rosenblum: Yeah. I mean, from the get-go, when I was younger, that was my window into Broadway was the Rosie O'Donnell.

[5:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: See, and mine is because I'm 100 years older than you. Mine is the Ed Sullivan show.

[5:42] Glenn Rosenblum: Oh, really?

[5:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. You'd wait on a Sunday night to see what Broadway show is on Ed Sullivan. And this little boy knew to wait to see who's the new Dolly that he's going to show.

[5:55] Glenn Rosenblum: Yeah, I definitely couldn't let 50 episodes go by without giving some love to Rosie O'Donnell. She's the best. Now, it's no secret that musical theater is very personal to me. It's how I've learned so many things in my life, historical or even just interpersonal, even spiritual. I mean, how many times have I brought up my mission? I'm LDS, have I mentioned? Anyway, a lot of personal stuff comes up as I have these conversations with people. And one of my favorite little bits that never made it into the show was when I was recording the Sunset Boulevard episode with the hilarious and amazing Ryan O'Connor. And Ryan and I were talking about how the real victims in the households of young theater nerds are the parents because they just don't understand how important musicals are, and we take every opportunity to remind them of that.

But I remember sitting at the dinner table and getting really excited because the Tony Awards were, I think, either that Sunday or the following Sunday. And it was 1998, so it was Lion King versus Ragtime. And I was pro-Ragtime, for sure. And I was like, it's the best musical that's been written in the last 20 years. And my dad goes, well, I agree. All he was trying to do, all this man was trying to do was to agree with me. And you know what I said? You don't know. I was so furious. I don't know why. I was so upset that he agreed with me. I'm so sorry, dad.

[7:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I remember when my youth theater announced that they were going to do Bye Bye Birdie and another show in the same summer. I think it was Anything Goes. I think Anything Goes was the other show in the summer season. There was always two shows in the summer. And I was indignant that we were doing Bye Bye Birdie, but we weren't completing the cycle by doing Bring Back Birdie. Furious. Furious. This is a no-brainer. Like, what are you thinking? If you're going to do Bye Bye Birdie, why wouldn't you do Bring Back Birdie immediately? One, two. One, two. To which the woman who knows theater, who runs the theater was like, honestly, I didn't even know about it. She's like, I don't know this thing.

[8:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I would be lying if I said that one of the things I was most looking forward to in creating this podcast was the sense of community I'd find. And yet I'd also be lying if I said it isn't one of the things I've most enjoyed about doing this podcast. It's been incredible to get to know you all. Like, truly, a lot of the guests on the show are people that, yes, I've worked with and know from my life, but a lot of them I had never met. A lot of fellow podcasters who I wanted to salute and connect with because I know how much work it is. And then also listeners. You are so kind and our common language is musicals in a way because they have helped shape us and who we are and what we believe. And I feel like I have a bigger community than I ever have before in my life.

Anyway, that's my really long intro to say that I reached out to you guys to ask if there was a specific episode that you heard that may have changed your mind, shaped your perspective in a different way, because I know that being on this side of the microphone, I've discovered a lot about these shows, about myself, about the people I talk to in ways that I had never expected. And as it turns out, I've discovered you.

[9:34] Jacob: Hey there, Jeff. My name is Jacob and I am from Fort Worth, Texas, and I just wanted to say congratulations on your 50th episode of A Musical Theatre Podcast. I love the show. I look forward to listening and I cannot wait to hear what shows you will be covering on future episodes of the podcast. The two episodes so far that have really stuck with me and have helped influence how I view the shows now are The Little Mermaid and Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark. For The Little Mermaid, you interviewed Chelsea Morgan-Stock, who was an original cast member, and I was really able to appreciate and understand all of the developments and revisions and changes that were going on between the different incarnations of the show, which Chelsea was a part of.

So I really loved getting to hear from her how all of that came to fruition. And with Spider-Man Turn Off the Dark, I've always been interested in the show, obviously because of the reputation and everything that was happening in the news. But after you covered that show, I was able to find the Song of Spider-Man book and dig deeper into how everybody was just trying to make the show work. And that's what it's all about in the end. Whether the show worked or not doesn't even really matter. And I think that's one of the cool things I love about your podcast. It's about how everybody works so hard to make all of these shows work. And now we're at the point in history where we can talk about them and we can, you know, listen to what people have to say about them. And so I just wanted to say again, congratulations on 50 episodes, and I cannot wait for more.

[11:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So anyone who knows me knows I talk endlessly about amusements.

[11:21] Sadie Bowman: And how it is my absolute favorite. I would have to say out of the now 50 episodes, one of my favorites, one of my favorites is the episode on Spelling Bee with Jennifer Lynn. That was the first Broadway show I ever saw. So Spelling Bee holds a special place in my heart. And I just want to say thank you to Jeffrey. I love this podcast. I love you. And I love everyone who listens to it. Happy New Year.

[11:43] Sadie Bowman: Hey, Jeff, it's Sadie Bowman. Congratulations on Episode 50. Wow. I have to say the episode that has stuck with me the most so far has actually been what I think was your very first one where you talked about Fiddler on the Roof. That episode made me realize that for me, a lot of these sort of classic workhorse musicals have always been sort of a guilty pleasure for me.

[12:10] Sadie Bowman: Like I was a super nerdy teenager who collected musical soundtracks from decades before I was born. But as an adult and as a theater artist, I have sort of adopted this jaded stance that this stuff is from the past. We should really be looking forward and innovating musical theater and not spending any more time with these old chestnuts.

[12:34] Sadie Bowman: But hearing you illuminate the context of Fiddler on the Roof and your personal perspectives on it, it just made me realize that no, these classic shows are classics because they chronicle the human condition. Good shows mark where we have been and where we are going as humanity. And they deserve to be studied and examined like any great work of art or literature.

[12:59] Sadie Bowman: Thank you for bringing that and so much more to light with your show. I really love it and I look forward to the next 50 episodes. Yay!

[13:07] Rachel Bailey: One episode of a musical theater podcast that really, really stood out to me and what really made me appreciate that show so much more was Cabaret. Listening to that podcast helped me to understand first about what the show really was about.

[13:23] Rachel Bailey: One thing in particular that really stood out to me was when you all talked about the scene where the lights would come back up and then it was just like a blank white space. And I remember watching Cabaret a few different times but not really understanding what that was.

[13:39] Rachel Bailey: But when it was blank, there was no one there. So that showed that they had been executed and it was white signifying that it was a good thing. And man, it was sad but it's really beautiful how they brought that to the stage.

[13:55] Rachel Bailey: Hey Jeff, this is Rachel Bailey. I just wanted to share that I am so thankful you covered Sunset Boulevard in one of your episodes. I had never seen the show or even heard the album before. And after listening to your podcast, I had to go listen to the album and find out what it was all about.

[14:13] Rachel Bailey: And I just fell in love with it. Sunset Boulevard, the song, is one of my favorite songs to listen to and to play on the piano. And I love the rhythms and the way that Andrew Lloyd Webber just incorporated those rhythms and his lyrics together. And I just think that that show is really amazing and I hope to someday do it. So thanks for covering that.

[14:35] Modi Sitchoa: Hey, my name is Modi Sitchoa. I'm calling from St. Paul in Minnesota. Happy 50th episode. I'm originally from Honduras where musical theater isn't very widely available. I didn't see my first show until like five years ago.

[14:50] Modi Sitchoa: So just about every episode that you make helps me build my vocabulary and introduces me to shows that I wouldn't have been aware of. I think the episode that changed my perspective the most was the In the Heights episode that you did.

[15:05] Modi Sitchoa: I hadn't drawn the connection between Fiddler on the Roof and In the Heights until your conversation. And now I can't think of one show without thinking about the other one. I think especially the conversation that you had about how these two immigrant groups need each other to survive challenging times was very eye opening for me.

[15:24] Modi Sitchoa: Anyways, thanks for what you do. I very much look forward to hearing more episodes and discovering new shows through your podcast.

[15:54] Unknown speaker: I had a friend who was on the podcast in the Little Night Music episode. He texted me and was like, have you heard the new Prince of Egypt soundtrack because it's got some bops. And then I remember that Jeremy Lapp, J. Scott Lapp, was the associate director and then he reached out to the stars and the book writer and they all agreed to be on the show and it was such a fun, fantastic experience.

[16:15] Unknown speaker: Philip Lezebnik, who wrote the book for the musical The Prince of Egypt, also wrote, if you remember, a lot of our favorite animated musicals. Prince of Egypt, obviously. He also wrote Mulan and Pocahontas. What?

[16:31] Unknown speaker: So, when I talked to him, I had to ask him about his preferences when it comes to his favorite animated films. It didn't make it into the show. Oh my gosh, I have this memory of editing this particular episode. I swear, this podcast has caused me to have more all-nighters than my entire educational career. Podcasting is, in the words of Cassie Silva, no joke.

[16:57] Unknown speaker: I have one more question. You have to tell me your top three favorite animated musical films. It doesn't have to be one, two, three. It just has to be three of them.

[17:28] Unknown speaker: I've always loved musicals and it's the ultimate musical moment. So Beauty and the Beast as a musical, above all else, ranks up really high there. And then maybe the very first animated feature ever made, Snow White. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves.

[17:48] Unknown speaker: The story is not great. Snow White is a total pill. But every time the Seven Dwarves come on the screen, I just remember the first time I saw it as a kid just being mesmerized by the Seven Dwarves. And what's interesting is that when I was working on Pocahontas, there was a guy there, Joe Grant, who had worked on Snow White.

[18:12] Unknown speaker: He was an animator for Snow White. As a matter of fact, he was a guy who was an old story artist. Well, literally, he was an old story artist. But he came in every day. He was working. And he sat in the back and he would make these little sketches of a cricket. This was on Milan, excuse me, not Pocahontas on Milan.

[18:32] Unknown speaker: He would make sketches of a cricket and then put them up on the storyboards. And he was coming up with all these gags for a cricket that Milan would carry around with her. And I said to Joe, I said, well, you know, Joe, there's already been a cricket in Disney movies. Jiminy Cricket. And the cricket is so much. We already have a dragon. And it's so much smaller. I just don't think it's going to work.

[18:56] Unknown speaker: And he just kept sketching the cricket and putting it up into place. And I said, this is not going to work. It's not going to make it into the movie. But Joe Grant being Joe Grant, it did make it into the movie. Of course, everybody loves the cricket in Milan.

[19:11] Unknown speaker: I have the emoji of the cricket on my phone that I can send whenever I want. Yeah, yeah. And then I will say the entire Pixar oeuvre I love, perhaps the most emotional being the first 10 or 20 minutes of Up.

[19:30] Unknown speaker: And that illustrates that Pixar films are not children's films. They are always told from the point of view of the adult. Up is about an 80 year old guy whose wife has died and he's trying to make it up to the memory of his wife. But Toy Story is not about the kid who owns the toys. It's about the adult toys and their relationship with him. Monsters, Inc. is not about the little girl with a monster under her bed. It's about the monsters.

[19:56] Unknown speaker: Emotionally, they're told from the adult's point of view. And what I do think is true is animated features is where a lot of the best writing is happening nowadays.

[20:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She is a real human being, but only because the incredible actress Leah Sprecher has given birth to this character known as Barbara Dixon. So I thought that I had done an OK job of making that clear at the beginning without fully saying the person I'm talking to isn't real.

[20:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: However, I got so many messages from people who didn't get it and were like, who is this woman? Are these stories even real? So here I'm saying it full out. Barbara Dixon is not a real person, but she's one of my favorite characters on social media right now.

[21:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I have a little piece from the beginning of my conversation with her where she's warming up, getting into character. So enjoy this little prelude to what eventually became the Anything Goes episode.

[21:17] Barbara Dixon: Oh, that's wonderful. You love your family. Myself, I can't stand them. I live, you know, even my sons, they live in an ADU unit in the back and we never cross paths. We just zoom together. Yeah, but it's fun.

[21:35] Barbara Dixon: But family, it's family. What are you going to do? It's family. It's family. And they're good to me. They play in the pit of my shows when I have shows. My sons, my twin sons, Bud and Buddy. Oh, piano and bass. Piano and bass. That's fantastic. Which one is which?

[21:54] Barbara Dixon: Buddy plays piano and he's my favorite. Yes. I sing a song in my shows, you know, Daddy's Son. From Ragtime? Yes. They don't know this. I think it's an original song, but I take Daddy's Son and I sing, you are my favorite son, as Buddy is playing piano, you know.

[22:23] Barbara Dixon: And poor Bud behind the bass. No, he's fine. Silently crying. No, he's fine. He doesn't care. He actually has one eye. That's another story. That's entirely another story. I couldn't tell them apart to save my life.

[22:40] Glenn Rosenblum: So another one of my goals was to provide a platform for diverse voices who love and or whose lives have been affected by the storytelling of musical theater. I realize that I'm a very privileged person in many, many ways. So I wanted to hear how other people discovered the art form and have either continued to be a part of it or have felt the need to distance themselves, whatever their story might be, I wanted to hear it. Old, young, white, Black, gay, straight. I wanted everyone to feel at home here. That goal went to a whole new level when all of the social justice conversations started happening in our country early in 2020. And I know that those conversations have been happening long before, and many pioneers have made it even possible for us to be having these conversations now.

But all of a sudden, it wasn't just like part of my show. It had to become one of the most important things that I tried to do. And in some ways, I'm really proud of everything I've done. And others, I could do better, and I'm going to keep trying to do better. But I find it so special and amazing when I invite somebody on knowing full well that what I want to include is their individual voice. And yet, because of the story that we're talking about, it allows their voice to explore topics that are not only relevant to them, but to all of us. And the teaching becomes more personal, because we see these stories that we know so well through someone else's eyes and how those principles or truths are reflected in what they face.

It's pretty incredible to see. And I honestly don't force it to happen. I try not to force it to happen, but it happens. And that, if anything, is kind of a testament to me of how powerful musicals can be. I want to share this little clip from our recent episode about The Lion King with Terron Brooks. And we were talking about Simba reclaiming his rightful place as king of Pride Rock, right? Where does that power come from? And what he says is pretty exciting.

[25:27] Terron Brooks: Because I do think about a lion's roar. That's all he has to do. He don't need to talk. Did you hear the lion's roar? There's no long conversation. There's no luring you to think that you're in trouble. You hear the roar, you run, you bow, you stop. So in that kind of way, when Simba is arguing or yelling at Scar, his power, it's not much he has to say to say, I'm king. Especially to an insecure lion or person like Scar, who's pretending.

[25:55] Glenn Rosenblum: Yeah. Pretending to be king.

[25:57] Terron Brooks: Yeah. He's not granted the power. You can take the power from somebody, but if you're not blessed with the power, it doesn't really matter. Simba was the rightful king. And that's why Scar had all that discomfort. Nobody wanted to listen to him. Nobody wanted to bow to him. Nobody respected him. He took the power, but he wasn't given the power. So when the person that's given the power steps into the light and roars or says stop, he's the rightful king.

[26:46] Terron Brooks: There are so many ways to apply that to right now, to life.

[26:51] Glenn Rosenblum: Oh, power, government, everything.

[26:55] Terron Brooks: Look, 2020 sucked for a lot of people in a lot of different ways. But it was also the year that I got to talk to Michael John LaChiusa for almost two hours. So I have to be grateful. It was me and Travis Leland and Tony nominated composer and writer Michael John LaChiusa. And we were discussing his small musical with huge themes, See What I Want to See. And what that conversation turned into was Travis and I doing a lot of listening, which was totally okay, because Michael John had so much to say. And it was all really honest. And he wasn't just talking to hear himself talk like he was talking from a place of wisdom and wanting to share. One of the things that didn't make it into that episode was him talking about his experience with the pandemic.

The premiere of one of his brand new works was supposed to be in San Diego, I think in spring of 2020. And that totally got canceled. And he was feeling really down. And he speaks really openly about all of that. And while I ultimately felt that it was maybe taking our attention a little too far away from the show we were trying to talk about, I knew immediately, as soon as we have a 50th episode, I'm including this in here.

[28:17] Glenn Rosenblum: And we're all keeping our fingers crossed that sooner rather than later, we can find a way back to, you know, some form of theater, because no matter how you zoom and doom it, you know, it's still TV. So, you know, no matter, I mean, it's just TV. And not theater. I spent a lot of time, I got out of New York, I was part of the 40% exodus. I admit it, I admit it, I admit it. I got tired of the city, had an opportunity to go back to my neck of the woods, which is in western New York, Chautauqua, New York. And I had a chance to be there for about a month. And I've been biking, going to the beach, just clearing out my head and stuff to begin the process of writing a couple of new commissions that I received in the midst of COVID.

And I was out there, I remember being at the beach, and I found a beautiful stone in the water and brought it back to my blanket. And a couple of hours later, I noticed that it was like, just dried out, brown, ugly. And I went, that's kind of like theater when it's removed from its source, you know what I mean? It doesn't really have the same luster, nor the same glamour, or the same excitement that, you know, it does when it's too far from that live experience that we so love and we so give our lives to. And people were asking me too, during the whole shutdown that we were experiencing, and still are to a great degree, I bet you've written a thousand musicals by now, Michael John. And I'm going, no, you know, I'm in grief.

My show in San Diego was postponed. We were doing the New York premiere of Los Otros, which had been done, CTG had done that in Los Angeles there, Center Theater Group had done the original premiere of it. And then, of course, revivals of my stuff, not only in this country, but around the world, could not be done. And I realized I was like going, wow, I don't feel like writing. I don't feel like it. I don't feel the drive. I don't feel the love to write at this moment. I went, you know what, Michael John, you're in grief. You know, deal with it. Sort that through. And while I was in Chautauqua, New York, on the beach, biking and doing all my stuff and everything, I realized, you know, I was in some form of, you know, a shock to the psyche.

And so it's been a wonderful thing to kind of work my way through it, experience it, process it. And now I'm back to writing full time and, you know, and doing my work and enjoying it again. But I needed to have that little break and that recognition, realization, excuse me, that I was, you know, suffering from something of grief and to accept that.

[31:03] Barbara Dixon: Good for you. That was a great example for all us artists to hear.

[31:06] Glenn Rosenblum: Truly, though, we don't talk about it. We just we talk.

[31:09] Barbara Dixon: No, we don't. Let's keep our hopes up and let's do it. It's like, no, it's OK to not be creative for a while and to take this in grief for our country, take in these tragedies and experience them. And by doing so, you process them and you learn to write about them. You know, I'm not going to write the COVID musical, mind you, because nothing really rhymes with COVID. So I'm not going to do that. But, you know, and I teach my students that too, just to accept it and work your way through it and don't be ashamed of it. So now that I've reached my goal of 50 episodes of a library of 50 episodes for everybody to listen to, I've made the decision to start doing the podcast twice a month instead of every week.

It was kind of a hard decision because I think on some level I thought, oh, people are people are going to be mad at me or I'm going to disappoint somebody. And like that's always very triggering for me. But here's the thing. I want to make sure that I am creating enough time for myself to make theater in addition to talking about theater. And in order to do that, I need to go down to two episodes a month. It will also allow me to create more interactive content for you. Like I said, one of the greatest gifts has been getting to know you and have this really great musical theater community to interact with. And so I want to make sure to have lots of those opportunities on our social media. And if I'm spread too thin, I just can't get to it.

So we're going to have two episodes a month and they're going to be incredibly special. I already have many of them recorded and I'm really excited for you to listen to them. As always, if you have recommendations for shows that you would like me to consider, please, please email me at amusicalpodcast at gmail.com. Be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at amusicalpodcast for more great content. And we'll even be having more designs to enjoy on our TeePublic store. It's going to be an incredible year of conversations about musical theater. And no matter what the future of our art form is, I know that as long as I'm here, the ghost light's going to be on. And I'm so grateful that this platform has put me in contact with many people who feel the same way.

[33:36] Glenn Rosenblum: So from my heart to yours, happy 50th episode, everybody. Love you.