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[0:00] Candice Quarrels: One thing that I do wish that, you know, the creatives would do better is to do more groundwork in letting people know that, like, while this is ridiculous and we are making fun, this is something that is really happening. Like, I wish just as, you know, clearly as, you know, they have the Latter-day Saint ad in it, like, you've seen the play, now read the book. I wish there was something in the playbills that was like, you know, you've laughed about it, now here are resources to help Ugandan women who have gone through this. You know, like... Dang. I feel like that is definitely missing.

[0:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to A Musical Theatre Podcast, where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today we are covering the musical The Book of Mormon, which is the most requested musical we've received from you, the listeners. I have no idea why that would be. I'm kidding, of course. For those who may be listening for the first time, I, like Nephi, seer of olden times, was born of goodly parents. I served a mission as a Spanish-speaking missionary in Texas, which I probably talk about way too much, but only because there's rarely a day I don't think about those two years of my life.

I'm still a practicing member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Also, I'm gay, so I have some thoughts about this show. That being said, this is not about me and my personal portrayals, which are many. It is about the work, and here to talk to me about it is the perfect guest. She can currently be seen in Hamilton in Los Angeles, and has been seen as Nabulungi all over the United States in The Book of Mormon. Everyone, please welcome to the podcast, Candice Quarrels! Hi!

[2:00] Candice Quarrels: So much for having me. Thank you for being here. I'm honored. I'm honored to have you on the show. I remember talking to you years ago now about this show, and I can't remember exactly how you put it, but basically—

[2:15] Candice Quarrels: It was three years ago.

[2:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It was three years ago. So crazy.

[2:21] Candice Quarrels: Amen. But basically, when you were on tour, you got asked a lot of hard questions, so at this point, talking about the show doesn't scare you at all.

[2:31] Candice Quarrels: Yeah, not at all. I mean, there is a feeling of remoteness from it as well, like having moved on and the world post-pandemic and post-George Floyd, and so, yeah, perspective also helps.

[2:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, I always see with The Book of Mormon, I see the quote—was it Ben Brantley who was like, the best musical of the century? And I look back on that, and I'm like, that is—in 2011, that's pretty early to be making that call. It's like in ragtime. It's like, we have 94 years to go. But I mean, the jury's still out a little bit as to how this show is going to age, especially since now it has reopened on Broadway with a couple of changes, which we'll talk about in this episode. But I don't know. I guess in a general point of view, where do you stand with the show right now?

[3:31] Candice Quarrels: I, at the core of me, believe that art in theater is meant to challenge and be a conduit for conversation. Like, none of us are all going to get things right. It's just the willingness to listen, which I have, yeah, willing. I have been very impressed with how a lot of the shows have come back, and they're just like openness to change. And I mean, it's a very old system, Broadway, right? And I think until a lot of old people pass, it will continue to get a lot wrong. But in the meantime, at least we have ways to talk about it, and I appreciate that part of it all.

[4:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Totally agree. Maybe the only thing I talk about more than my mission is Brene Brown. And one of my favorite things that she says is it's not about being right, it's about getting it right. And that's a process, right?

[4:32] Candice Quarrels: A long one.

[4:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, a long one that requires a lot of uncomfortable conversations. And I'm grateful that you're here to have a conversation with me. And by the way, it's not going to be that uncomfortable. We're still going to have a good time.

[4:44] Candice Quarrels: Yeah, it's going to be fun. It's going to be fun.

[4:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now talk to me about how the show came into your life.

[4:49] Candice Quarrels: So I went to college at Belmont University in Nashville, majored in musical theater. And a part of our whole curriculum, being in Nashville somewhere where auditions don't happen very often, we were asked to, if something is coming through town, get the experience by going in for the open calls, and trying to make your own appointments, and have your headshots ready. And what would you sing? With full expectations of never booking anything, but just having the experience because we're not in a large city, you know?

[5:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Totally.

[5:31] Candice Quarrels: So Book of Mormon was doing an open call. It came through on our group Facebook page. I sent in my headshot resume, got an appointment time in between classes, went in, and two weeks later, I was being flown out to New York for final callbacks.

[5:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's crazy.

[5:51] Candice Quarrels: Yeah, very unexpected. Yeah, I was in my first semester of my sophomore year. Even as I was in New York, didn't believe that I was going to get it at that second. It was very much so I was under the impression like, wow, this is all so cool.

[6:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You had a great experience.

[6:12] Candice Quarrels: Yeah. And about a month went by, and I didn't hear anything. And, you know, just like slip back into my normal schedule. And right before Christmas break, I got a call saying that I was off with the role. So it was very fast. I literally like, I got the call, I think December like, I don't know, 14th or something. The last day of school was December 16th. And I was in my I was in New York for rehearsals like December 18th.

[6:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, my heavens. Holy cow. And then how long were you with the show?

[6:52] Candice Quarrels: I was with the show for almost three years. I loved my cast. I still keep in touch with a lot of them. A lot of them are out here in LA, which is really cool. We get to stay connected. And, you know, the world of musical theater is very small. So I feel very fortunate that I was able to start out with such a bang and to meet so many amazing vets and like get to learn from all of them. And yeah, it was such a blessing. In doing a show like this, in which satire is the main language, right? I feel like it's going to be received differently throughout the country. And was that the experience for you?

[7:33] Candice Quarrels: Absolutely. Yeah, it's funny, because I started my first dates were my first like four months were all in Florida, and like North Carolina, South Carolina. So very Bible Belty, old and white places. So I was like, under the impression, like, we have to really work for these laughs, like a lot of people were, you know, hesitant to laugh, shocked at what they were hearing, it was towards, I mean, it wasn't very late into the run, either. I think I started maybe like three years into the New York run. Yeah. So people were seeing this for the first time, first time, not to mention the, the production team, or producers or whatever, were very secretive about what this show was going to be. Nobody knew what it even looked like until it was already open.

[8:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. Yeah. So it was a lot of people's first experience with it. And I mean, the second you meet the Ugandans, like we're saying crazy things.

[8:44] Candice Quarrels: So it was a lot of that. But as we move, you know, like further west and further north, I started to realize, oh, like, our experience in these cities is going to be so dependent on like the culture, the climate, the who, who is buying the tickets to the show? Yeah, like Chicago, for instance, like, they love that. I mean, Chicago is one of the best. I mean, it is the best city to do theater and thank you. I completely agree. Love Chicago.

[9:15] Candice Quarrels: Love Chicago. They are just I mean, they are theater goers. It's, it's an amazing city to do any show. So I think being there was sort of my first experience and being like, oh, wow, like this is huge. And people get it. And there is forgiveness. And I don't know, I guess the comedy of it settled in more, you know, the more I got out of Florida.

[9:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: To all of our listeners in Florida, we love you. We see you. We support you.

[9:50] Candice Quarrels: Yeah. That being said, comedy is I look, I'm not going to sit here today until people what is funny and what is not funny. Like, let's just get that right out there. Yeah. It is a matter of taste at times. And in the case of satire, really dependent on whether or not people are willing to lean in and either see themselves take responsibility, accountability for what is being satirized. Sometimes the South Park guys are really good at it. And sometimes they're not. And I think that both are very present in this show. And I can imagine certain audiences in the country not knowing how to lean in. And so they instead maybe think they should sit back and laugh at and that's when things get a little tricky.

[10:44] Candice Quarrels: Yeah, that's such an interesting perspective. I've not thought about it like that. You're absolutely right. Yeah. I mean, I think that is also what the show is learning as it is adjusting, right? Like, we don't want to laugh at we want to lean in. Like, I think comedians are adjusting shows are just we're all learning the difference between the two. Right.

[11:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Agreed. That's because we think something's funny. Like, is it funny?

[11:11] Candice Quarrels: Yeah. Yeah. And why? Yeah. And like that question, that curiosity, man, boy, that has been the thing that's kept coming up for me this year, is curiosity is always the right answer. If I am laughing at something, it's time to ask why. If I'm not laughing at something, it's time to ask why, you know?

[11:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. There's always a really interesting answer to be found there. Now, when I first heard that the South Park guys were creating a musical about the Book of Mormon, I honestly wasn't surprised. I was like, oh, that tracks because I had already seen the South Park episode all about the church, which is actually pretty funny. Have you seen it?

[11:53] Candice Quarrels: I think yes. Yes. I'm pretty sure it was like part of our rite of passage. You get this little package full of things to look through. You should watch the episode.

[12:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. I mean, it just shows what they do so well when spoofing religion, which is they just full straight face spout off doctrine without any spiritual principles tied to it and thereby reveal the ridiculousness of how it sounds. You know what I mean? If you just say, 16 year old got pregnant from God and had Jesus, you know, like that sounds crazy. They also did a terrible film. Sorry, guys, called Orgasmo, where Trey Parker plays a missionary who is trying to save people and ends up in porn. Have you heard of this?

[12:40] Candice Quarrels: No, I haven't. It's terrible. But then they also did Team America, which I think is hilarious.

[12:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Amazing. Yes, I've seen that. And that's basically a musical. So you put like all of these things together and then add a little Robert Lopez and Casey Nichola and boom, you've got The Book of Mormon.

[12:59] Candice Quarrels: Right. So I wasn't surprised. I saw the show. I saw the national tour, first national in L.A. And I got to say, I wasn't offended. It's pretty difficult to offend me at this point in art. Like personally, it's another story. I'm still working on that.

[13:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But there were actually things I thought were funnier because I had served a mission and I'm sure we'll discuss some of those as they come up.

[13:23] Candice Quarrels: My bit that I always say, and it still stands, is that at some point while watching the first act, I realized, oh, this is what real orphans must feel like watching Annie, you know, where it's like, oh, that's cute. I mean, not entirely realistic, but cute.

[13:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I think most of all, I was struck by how traditional it felt as a musical.

[13:46] Candice Quarrels: Absolutely. It's giving tap number. It's giving glittery vests.

[13:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely. And there's, I mean, there's just so much respect for the musical theater art form in the creating of this show. I guess what I'm trying to say is they're spoofing a lot of things in the show, but musical theater isn't necessarily one of them. They're doing it sincerely. And I'm here for it.

[14:06] Candice Quarrels: Absolutely. Yeah. Which I think is why it did so well. It is at the end of the day, like a fantastic example of a musical, like formulaically it is an A plus.

[14:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally agree. It's constructed so smartly and so well. Now, the story behind it is the same from all accounts, from what I...

[14:32] Candace Quarrels: Trey Parker and Matt Stone, creators of South Park, attend Avenue Q, the musical Avenue Q in New York, which was written by Robert Lopez.

[14:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And as they're sitting there watching this show, which is an irreverent take on Sesame Street, they're like, holy cow, we got to meet this guy.

[14:50] Candace Quarrels: He is 100% doing what we love to do, and we should work together on something.

[14:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So they contact Robert Lopez. He basically says the exact same thing, which is, oh, I've always wanted to work with those dudes.

[15:03] Candace Quarrels: And this is what comes out of it.

[15:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, I know I don't know all of the ins and outs of this, but I'm pretty sure, like, the book writer and director of Avenue Q was originally attached.

[15:15] Candace Quarrels: And then at some point he left and Casey Nicholaw was brought on. Right. Is that true?

[15:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, that is true.

[15:21] Candace Quarrels: And nobody knows, like, what happened.

[15:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Totally, totally. But also a smart decision because nobody knows Broadway showbiz like Casey Nicholaw.

[15:35] Candace Quarrels: Casey Nicholaw.

[15:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Were you able to work with him in New York when you were rehearsing?

[15:40] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, I worked with him in New York when I was rehearsing, and the creatives also came out pretty often on tour.

[15:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, wow.

[15:48] Candace Quarrels: We saw them at least every three months, like the Casey and Stephen Ramis and our associates were there.

[15:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, even more often. So, yeah, they definitely kept the machine sharp.

[16:05] Candace Quarrels: That's interesting because, once again, looking at a show this unconventional, you would think that it wouldn't operate like a machine.

[16:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is a machine.

[16:18] Candace Quarrels: How would you describe working with some of these guys? Anything come to your mind?

[16:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's interesting. They are all very professional, very traditional, very talented.

[16:35] Candace Quarrels: I mean, I was 18, so a lot of my first year was just me being, like, so nervous all the time whenever they were around.

[16:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But as I got older and as I got more comfortable, they definitely, we opened to each other together, you know.

[16:56] Candace Quarrels: The associates were always very, like, parental towards me, which was really nice.

[17:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But when it came to, like, Stephen Ramis and Casey Nicholaw, it was very, like, me feeling like, okay, I have to prove something.

[17:11] Candace Quarrels: I have to prove myself, which...

[17:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Not a good feeling.

[17:14] Candace Quarrels: Not a good feeling, but so Broadway, you know.

[17:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so it was a lot of that for me.

[17:22] Candace Quarrels: I think being in Hamilton has also provided such perspective because it is so relaxed and so personable.

[17:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like, you know, like I could text Tommy Kail right now and, you know, have a whole full joking fest.

[17:39] Candace Quarrels: Whereas, like, I would never do that with Casey Nicholaw.

[17:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fascinating.

[17:47] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[17:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's interesting how each show can have its own culture.

[17:52] Candace Quarrels: Absolutely.

[17:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think that a lot of people might not realize that, but I hear it all the time.

[17:57] Candace Quarrels: Like, oh, that's so Book of Mormon.

[18:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that's so Wicked.

[18:02] Candace Quarrels: Wicked always has its own culture.

[18:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The way that they run the show, because you've got how many companies of this performing all over the world, you know.

[18:12] Candace Quarrels: So they definitely have this unified perspective on how the show should go.

[18:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely.

[18:20] Candace Quarrels: And that's not always fun, first of all.

[18:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No.

[18:24] Candace Quarrels: But it helps them make money.

[18:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I think they sometimes think it's worth it.

[18:29] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[18:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And I mean, I think it even comes down to producers.

[18:33] Candace Quarrels: I mean, Scott Rudin is the producer of Mormon versus.

[18:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, I forgot about that.

[18:41] Candace Quarrels: He has his own controversy going on.

[18:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely.

[18:45] Candace Quarrels: So, you know, that trickles down, just like how we feel with the creatives, you know.

[18:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So definitely, you know, the more work I do, the more people I meet and directors I meet.

[19:00] Candace Quarrels: Everything shifts into a whole new perspective, you know.

[19:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, absolutely.

[19:05] Candace Quarrels: Well, the show opens in 2011 to rave reviews across the board.

[19:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: People, I think, are shocked and delighted at the same time.

[19:15] Candace Quarrels: They can't believe that they are hearing the things on the stage that they hear while also feeling somewhat uplifted.

[19:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Because truly, at the end of the show, you feel like a million bucks.

[19:25] Candace Quarrels: It's really good for Broadway cares when they're holding the buckets because you leave the show on such a high.

[19:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You're like, yes, take the money.

[19:34] Candace Quarrels: The show wins many Tony Awards, goes on tour, was running on Broadway until the pandemic.

[19:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is back open and is officially one of the longest running shows.

[19:48] Candace Quarrels: I think it has already passed 42nd Street in terms of performances on Broadway.

[19:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow, I did not know that.

[19:55] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, there's so much to talk about with the show.

[19:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And we're going to just jump right into the show itself because things will come up.

[20:03] Candace Quarrels: I am giving myself three buzzers and only three because I do not want this episode to be just about me going, that's not real.

[20:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That would never happen.

[20:15] Candace Quarrels: But I am giving myself three of them and I have marked them throughout the show.

[20:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: When it is time, you will hear the buzzer.

[20:22] Candace Quarrels: Otherwise, feel free to share your feelings, comments and or concerns.

[20:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, when the show opens, we are in what's called the Missionary Training Center.

[20:34] Candace Quarrels: Yes, this is a real place.

[20:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You go to the training center, in my case, to learn another language.

[20:42] Candace Quarrels: I was there for six weeks.

[20:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: If you're not learning another language, you're only there for a couple of weeks before going out into the field.

[20:48] Candace Quarrels: I actually know that my nephew is currently on his mission.

[20:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And some of his training was actually virtual now because of the pandemic.

[20:58] Candace Quarrels: So, once again, things are always changing.

[21:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Anyway, it's this great song, a great boom chuck song called Hello, in which all of the missionaries, all the elders are learning how to make an approach and talk to people about what we do on a mission.

[21:17] Candace Quarrels: Which is share the message of Jesus Christ.

[21:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And one thing that I want to say about my experience is that that can be done in a myriad of ways.

[21:28] Candace Quarrels: And I found that the least effective way was by knocking on people's doors.

[21:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I'm sure.

[21:36] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, don't waste your time knocking on people's doors.

[21:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And furthermore, never ring a doorbell.

[21:45] Candace Quarrels: That's the number one, that's like my first buzzer about this musical.

[21:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I would never ring someone's doorbell.

[21:51] Candace Quarrels: It is already invasive enough to walk up to their doorstep and be like, hi, can I introduce myself?

[21:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Let alone ring their doorbell.

[22:00] Candace Quarrels: But anyway, so they're in this missionary training center.

[22:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a great song.

[22:03] Candace Quarrels: And we meet a couple of main characters.

[22:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Main character number one, Elder Price.

[22:08] Candace Quarrels: How would you describe Elder Price?

[22:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Elder Price is giving quarterback of the missionaries.

[22:15] Candace Quarrels: MVP.

[22:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, MVP.

[22:19] Candace Quarrels: The most handsome, the most organized.

[22:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He has such promise.

[22:25] Candace Quarrels: He's giving the one that everyone wants to be like, at least in the musical.

[22:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: At least that's what he believes in his own head, you know?

[22:34] Candace Quarrels: Absolutely.

[22:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The perfect Don Yasmin smile.

[22:38] Candace Quarrels: Like, it's all there.

[22:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's all working for him.

[22:41] Candace Quarrels: We also have Elder Cunningham.

[22:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And how, oh, Elder Cunningham.

[22:46] Candace Quarrels: How would you describe him?

[22:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Black sheep, you know?

[22:50] Candace Quarrels: The one that, you know, people make fun of or they don't think is going to do very well.

[22:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Or, you know, he's loud.

[22:59] Candace Quarrels: He doesn't really have a filter.

[23:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He doesn't quite get the mission at all, really.

[23:06] Candace Quarrels: He's sort of just there because that's where his parents put him.

[23:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[23:13] Candace Quarrels: I'm trying to think if I ever had a companion like Elder Cunningham.

[23:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No.

[23:18] Candace Quarrels: No.

[23:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I've had some friends like Elder Cunningham.

[23:21] Candace Quarrels: Yes.

[23:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love that he has this wild imagination.

[23:28] Candace Quarrels: Like, that's what he calls it.

[23:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He calls it using his imagination.

[23:32] Candace Quarrels: His parents call it lying.

[23:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[23:35] Candace Quarrels: But he's always making up stories, which is dangerous when serving a mission, as he will soon prove.

[23:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: At the end of this opening number and meeting these missionaries, they receive their callings to go out into the world.

[23:51] Candace Quarrels: That is false.

[23:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You think this super organized church would send you to Africa without telling you beforehand?

[24:01] Candace Quarrels: You've got to pack for that sort of thing.

[24:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: If you're going to Uganda versus Moscow, you're going to need a couple different things in the suitcase.

[24:10] Candace Quarrels: Absolutely.

[24:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But I totally get it.

[24:13] Candace Quarrels: It's a musical, right?

[24:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They receive their callings.

[24:17] Candace Quarrels: Some are going to Japan.

[24:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Elder Price is dreaming of going to Orlando, which 100% tracks my partner, Always Kids, that Disney and the church are interchangeable, particularly because our temples look like Sleeping Beauty's castle.

[24:27] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[24:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He's not wrong.

[24:42] Candace Quarrels: We do love Disney.

[24:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We do love Disney World.

[24:45] Candace Quarrels: So he's dreaming of going to Orlando.

[24:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Where he actually gets sent is Uganda.

[24:50] Candace Quarrels: And not only is he getting sent to Uganda, but his companion is Elder Cunningham.

[24:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, is this one of the big changes in the show?

[25:02] Candace Quarrels: Originally, the way that Elder Price reacts is that he's not excited to go to Uganda.

[25:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He'd rather go to Orlando.

[25:08] Candace Quarrels: And I've heard that they've now tweaked it so that he's excited about it.

[25:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that is not a change that I've heard of.

[25:15] Candace Quarrels: Oh, okay.

[25:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That might just be a performance thing now.

[25:18] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[25:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I feel like it may change from actor to actor, too.

[25:24] Candace Quarrels: A directing thing.

[25:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I, like I said, got my call to Texas.

[25:30] Candace Quarrels: My brother went to Bulgaria.

[25:33] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Whoa!

[25:34] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, which was actually pretty intense.

[25:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They went from a democratic state back to communism while he was there.

[25:41] Candace Quarrels: And they had to hide out in their apartments for a bit while the hostility toward Americans calmed down.

[25:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I know that was kind of intense.

[25:51] Candace Quarrels: My sister went to Argentina to a place called Bahia Blanca.

[25:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And then I got my call, and it took longer than usual.

[26:00] Candace Quarrels: And I opened it, and it said Texas.

[26:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And Candace, I'm not going to lie, I wasn't very happy about it.

[26:12] Candace Quarrels: I would have gladly taken Uganda.

[26:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What's really kind of karmic and beautiful about that is I've said this before.

[26:21] Candace Quarrels: I was a big Rosie O'Donnell fan.

[26:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And the week before on her show, she had had Tom Selleck on, and they had gotten to this huge argument about the NRA.

[26:30] Candace Quarrels: And I, of course, had taken Rosie's side because she's Rosie.

[26:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And so I was trash talking to my mom, the NRA, and all these things that I had heard on the Rosie O'Donnell show.

[26:43] Candace Quarrels: And just because a bunch of Texans want to have their guns cut to the next week, God sends me my calling.

[26:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it's like, boo, you're going to go to Texas and learn how to love these people that you just spent a good 45 minutes trash talking last week.

[26:58] Candace Quarrels: So there you go.

[27:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But I was really excited to be learning Spanish.

[27:04] Candace Quarrels: And I spent most of my time in oil refinery towns in South Texas working in the Spanish-speaking congregations.

[27:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And it was one of the most profound experiences of my life.

[27:19] Candace Quarrels: But when Elder Price finally does get excited about Uganda, the show does this incredible thing of kind of recreating The Lion King.

[27:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And somebody comes out and starts, you know, singing, Ha, Segonia.

[27:34] Candace Quarrels: We then find out that that is, in fact, like a member of the church that Elder Price's father has brought in to, like, give him a fond farewell.

[27:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So it's this great fake out. Oh, my gosh, it makes me laugh so hard.

[27:48] Candace Quarrels: They think it's going to be something great, only to discover a few.

[27:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A few differences.

[27:54] Candace Quarrels: And a few numbers, yeah.

[27:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, let's have a conversation about this.

[28:00] Candace Quarrels: How would you describe the scene when we actually do get to Uganda?

[28:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What's going on on stage?

[28:07] Candace Quarrels: So I'm pretty sure you have to correct me on some things.

[28:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, you're good.

[28:13] Candace Quarrels: Pretty sure the curtain lifts and it's the village, which is artfully made.

[28:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A beautiful set.

[28:23] Candace Quarrels: But, you know, it's mud huts and there's a dead donkey being dragged and everyone is a bit miserable.

[28:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And yeah, then that's when you first meet Naba, the character that I played, which I know they did make some changes with her, which I thought were really cool.

[28:45] Candace Quarrels: But, yeah, it's the depiction of, you know, Uganda being this place of ruin and famine.

[28:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which, I mean, all of Africa is not that, but there are definitely sections of it, you know.

[29:03] Candace Quarrels: That's something that I always did sort of fight for with the show, you know, to go to Africa is to immediately see that Africa is an incredibly rich and flourishing and beautiful country. But this is the story that's being told, right? Like, this is the part of it that they are sent to. This is the part of it that we are focusing on, which is a real part of it. I mean, at least that's how I felt about it. It's how I mean, maybe it's just how I was able to go to work every day and not feel crazy. But I don't know, I think there is something to be said about, well, this is the story that's being told. For a specific effect. Absolutely. Now, I have no qualms in saying this is the moment in the musical where I feel like I realized that it suffers a bit from what I call Green Book Syndrome. Did you see Green Book by chance?

[30:11] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[30:12] Candace Quarrels: For those who don't know, it's a film that came out a few years ago, it famously won Best Picture at the Academy Awards. Basically, the story is an odd couple pairing of two guys. On one side, you got a black gay prodigy-like musician who happens to be like a little bit fussy. And on the other side is a white super racist bigot. And by the end of the story, they learn from each other, the white guy becomes less racist, the black guy becomes less fussy. And I can't scream this loud enough, that is a false equivalency. Like fussy black guy and racist white guy are not on the same plane in terms of character arc. Not even close. And when they are presented that way, it reveals a lot of inequity in terms of what is expected from characters, especially where people need to end up in the story.

[31:01] Jeff Parsons: Absolutely, where we have to go, what work needs to be done. Right. And I know it may seem subtle to some people, but it's there. And I think that in the Book of Mormon musical, it's a similar thing. They're spoofing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on one side, and then Africa on the other side. And the church is being presented as like an over-the-top, vanilla, ignorant, the consequences of their sincerity, like that sort of thing. Like they're too perky. And then Africa is being presented as violent, poor, ill, uneducated. So once again, those are not on the same plane. Not at all. And presenting them as like comedic equals reveals, in my opinion, a lot of prejudice.

[31:55] Candace Quarrels: Absolutely. I think 100%. I don't know if it's even like revealing so much as part of Trey and Matt's humor is leaning into the prejudice of the moment, right? Like, is it us being like, oh, you guys are prejudiced? Or them being like, yes, we are all prejudiced? You know?

[32:10] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, I don't know. I think so. I think, you know.

[32:12] Candace Quarrels: You think they're being self-aware enough to...

[32:14] Jeff Parsons: I do. I think as comedians, they... I do. Having met them, they seem like very intelligent and...

[32:22] Candace Quarrels: Totally. Non-prejudiced people. I think it's a commentary of how America thinks about Africa. I think it's a commentary of the commercials we grew up seeing of like African children with swollen bellies asking for a penny.

[33:01] Jeff Parsons: With the flies landing on their eyeballs.

[33:02] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. It's like, that's not all that Africa is. But it is how America views Africa, you know, 100%. We're still in that. I mean, I remember when Black is King came out, and a lot of the African dysphoria was upset because a lot of what Beyonce did was in more rural African areas versus like the huge cities and like the skyscrapers and the richness of it. And, you know, even in that, it's like, yes, that exists. And those stories need to be told. But like, she's also creating an album about the Lion King. And like, yes, it's gonna be in the desert. And she is...

[33:48] Jeff Parsons: And also celebrating what is unique. Celebrating what isn't in America.

[33:54] Candace Quarrels: Exactly. Yeah. So, yes, it is poking a bear to enter Uganda in that way. But I don't know, I think there's also something to be said about us in America, like seeing that and being like, oh, yeah, that's Africa.

[34:07] Jeff Parsons: Right, right. Yeah. Kind of holding up a mirror and being like, how are you reacting to this? And once again, hopefully asking yourself why?

[34:26] Candace Quarrels: I totally get that. Yeah, it's a great point. It also makes me wonder, though, because like when you go to Team America, which once again, I think is really funny, coming out of 9-11. And so the relationship between America and the Middle East is very heavily spoofed. The country that America is fighting is called Dirk-a-Dirkistan. They went so far as to create a completely different place so that they could be kind of as offensive as they want. And here they just chose Uganda. So I wonder where, like, why is it different here when they went as hard on it as they did then?

[35:08] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, I think that's an extremely valid point.

[35:10] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[35:11] Jeff Parsons: No, I don't know. I don't have an answer, but just a question.

[35:13] Candace Quarrels: Me neither. Yeah. I wonder if, you know, I'd be interested to see if, you know, Trey and Matt would ever do a talk and be able to sit and really talk through their motives when creating it. And even if, you know, they see the error of their ways now, like, I think it would be cool to just at least have some sort of an acknowledgement of what was done and why it was done and more of an insight into their humor and, you know.

[36:03] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. Well, and like you said, the machine of Broadway is so different nowadays that back in the day, a musical could win, you know, the Tony Award for Best Musical, have a great life. Everybody loves it and kind of disappear after three or four years. But, you know, looking at everything that's happened between 2011 and 2021, it's almost unfair to expect that something would play exactly as it did before and still treat it as a machine that it had always been like it. That's not really how art works naturally.

[36:25] Candace Quarrels: You're right. Maybe the system that we see now needs to die away a little bit in order for some of those changes to go into effect. Once again, I don't know.

[36:39] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. In any case, back to the story. So, Elder Price and Elder Cunningham arrive and they are met by this guy named Mafala.

[36:46] Candace Quarrels: Mafala?

[36:47] Jeff Parsons: Mafala. And he is Nabulungi's father, correct? Village chief.

[36:56] Candace Quarrels: Neither of whom are members of the church?

[36:58] Jeff Parsons: No. And Mafala takes the elders, you know, kind of introduces them to the village. He begins to teach them a phrase and they feel like they're having their like first moment. It turns out this phrase actually means F.U. God, which I know once again might offend some people. I found it hilarious because that 100 percent happened to me on my mission. I was with a companion who was new to the mission. We call him Greenies. And he didn't know Spanish very well. And so I was like the senior companion. He was the junior companion. And we were talking to this one guy. He told us that he was a Satanist and then proceeded to talk about like all of his favorite Satanic songs. And my companion, who once again is really struggling with the language, doesn't know it very well, is kind of like just picking up on the visual cues of this man who's like smiling.

He's very excited about his Satanism. So he's like smiling and laughing, talking about this song that's called like Kill the Apostles or something like that and jamming out to it. And my companion's like, yeah, like getting into it. And I'm like, no, no, that's not what you don't know what he's saying. So 100 percent relatable content.

[38:16] Jeff Parsons: That being said, this isn't a real phrase, right?

[38:20] Candace Quarrels: No, it's not. We can complain about Lion King all we want, but at least Hakuna Matata is a real phrase.

[38:27] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[38:28] Candace Quarrels: After that song, they get to kind of the mission home where some of the other missionaries are. We meet Elder McKinley. I mean, if I'm going to talk about how I was on my mission, I was a mixture of Elder McKinley and Elder Price. If they had a love child, that would have been me. Elder Pop-Tarts really makes me laugh because that's so real. Nothing like a bunch of 19-year-old boys fending for themselves to just like eat Pop-Tarts all day.

[38:53] Jeff Parsons: Let's see what happens. What happens after that?

[38:56] Candace Quarrels: Oh, so like Elder Price is completely like his faith is shook, right?

[39:04] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, because he's like, where am I? How do these people believe this? How are we going to save their souls?

[39:12] Candace Quarrels: Right. How am I getting to my planet? Can we talk about that briefly? I don't know where we got this. I don't know where that whole planet thing came from.

[39:21] Jeff Parsons: I don't know.

[39:22] Candace Quarrels: I don't know where that whole planet thing came from.

[39:24] Jeff Parsons: Is that not a real thing? Is it not the goal to ascend to your own special planet?

[39:33] Candace Quarrels: I don't know these things. Once again, it's kind of like, well, thank you for asking, by the way. Once again, it's kind of one of those things where you take away the spiritual side of things and then you're like, yeah, I guess the only word to describe it would be a planet. All of a sudden, you start defining it by astronomy and you're like, no, that doesn't make sense at all. That's not how it feels. Describing something so it is not of this world.

[39:59] Jeff Parsons: Right, right. It's like when you start studying physics and you start realizing like time is a human construct and you're like, whoa, right? And all of a sudden, everything just seems so physical and temporary and limiting. That's what some of this verbiage feels like to me. I'm like, all right, well, I guess if you're going to compare it to something very human and mortal and whatever, then sure. I guess planet. Go for it.

[40:29] Candace Quarrels: But yeah, so he's trying to figure out what on earth he's going to do. Elder McKinley, who's, bless his heart, a little bit gay, decides that he's going to share something that he's learned, which is you just turn off those doubts. Just turn them off. Think about something else.

[40:47] Jeff Parsons: I have no experience in that whatsoever.

[40:55] Candace Quarrels: That's very real.

[40:56] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, it's very real. I mean, and I think that is beyond even just Mormonism. I think that is in traditional religion, period. I think about even in the Black community when it comes to gayness, you know, a lot of the older generations, that is not something that is accepted or, you know, encouraged. It's very much so like, pray the gay away. I think that is something that is indoctrined within organized religion, period.

[41:30] Candace Quarrels: You know, what's interesting is like, McKinley has a point. If dwelling on something negative isn't helping, then don't do it. I understand the truth in what he's saying. And then you apply it to some of these things where fear is also playing a part, you know, fear of sexuality, fear of speaking your truth. And then all of a sudden, it's highly dysfunctional. So I sometimes wonder if the dysfunction comes from applying principles that feel right in other situations, thinking that they're going to solve the ones that are actually based in fear.

[42:05] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, 100%.

[42:09] Candace Quarrels: I would like to think that Elder McKinley goes home and meets a lovely boy and they live happily ever after, where hopefully maybe he can still teach Sunday school.

[42:22] Jeff Parsons: This actually works. It's a great tab number, super cute. Are there any songs that I've forgotten so far that you feel like are worth talking about?

[42:28] Candace Quarrels: No, you've been hitting them all in the head.

[42:33] Jeff Parsons: All right. I guess the song doesn't really work, though, does it? Because at the end of the night, Price is still total riddled with anxiety. And then I think that this is really beautiful. Elder Cunningham, who has always felt like the second banana, all of a sudden turns out to be the hero of this story. Starting now, we suddenly see everything that makes him who he is, is actually what's going to save everyone. He wants his companion to be successful and happy, and he is there for him. And it's this really sweet song called I Am Here For You. So with that pep talk, Elder Price is now going to the villagers to teach about the doctrine of Christ. I guess they focus a lot on Joseph Smith in this song called All-American Prophet.

[43:22] Candace Quarrels: I mean, any buzzers?

[43:23] Jeff Parsons: I know you only have one left.

[43:25] Candace Quarrels: I only have one left. I'm saving it.

[43:27] Jeff Parsons: Okay, you're saving it. It's okay. It's actually kind of a weird save, but I have to do it.

[43:33] Candace Quarrels: Okay, but you have a plan.

[43:35] Candace Quarrels: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is very much an American church, and we say that all the time. This church would not have happened in any other country. It was difficult enough for them to find a place to—by them, I mean the early saints, the early members of the church—it was hard enough for them to figure out a place where they could worship freely in a country that was built on religious freedom. So, try and do that in a country where religious freedom isn't in the Constitution, good luck, it's not going to happen. But that's how they ended up in Utah to begin with. Now, in this song, they talk about how Joseph Smith was martyred, he was killed by mobs, and right before he does die, he has this prayer to God where he says, if I die without them having seen the miracles that have been brought about, then how are they ever going to believe? And then he goes, oh, I guess that was your point. And then he dies. And I think that that is such a beautiful moment.

[44:45] Jeff Parsons: Ah, I love that. It's so sweet, because it's both hilarious—I mean, it's hilarious because you're making fun of death. But at the same time, he's having this crisis of faith. And then in his prayer, he's like, oh, nope, I understand the assignment. Got it.

[45:04] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. So great. Oh, so the fact that this all takes place in America, the song sounds like, I don't know, like an American revival type song.

[45:10] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, absolutely. Giving the whitest rap of them all.

[45:15] Candace Quarrels: Oh, my gosh, it's full Harold Hill. Very, very—oh, you got trouble, my friends.

[45:27] Jeff Parsons: Now in this village is a general. Can you say his name, please, so I don't have to—

[45:32] Candace Quarrels: General, but feckin' naked.

[45:34] Jeff Parsons: And the general—

[45:35] Candace Quarrels: Who is a real general?

[45:38] Jeff Parsons: Really? Like he's based on an actual person?

[45:41] Candace Quarrels: He's based on an actual person.

[45:42] Jeff Parsons: Wow. Good for him. And why is he called that?

[45:47] Candace Quarrels: Because when he murders, he does it butt-fucking naked.

[45:52] Jeff Parsons: Because he doesn't want to ruin his clothes.

[45:54] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, basically. Yeah, he is a real person. A real person who I think is now a Mormon missionary.

[46:05] Jeff Parsons: There was a full conversion?

[46:06] Candace Quarrels: Yes, there was a full conversion.

[46:09] Jeff Parsons: Wowzers.

[46:10] Candace Quarrels: Real person, real story.

[46:12] Jeff Parsons: I had no idea. That's crazy.

[46:17] Candace Quarrels: I'm pretty sure there are YouTube videos of him giving sermons.

[46:22] Jeff Parsons: Wow. Well, in this story, at this point, he is demanding that all of the female villagers be circumcised, like genitally mutilated.

[46:34] Candace Quarrels: Which is also real.

[46:36] Jeff Parsons: That's a real thing, but it's usually not done by the men, right?

[46:41] Candace Quarrels: Yes, it is done by the men.

[46:43] Jeff Parsons: Is it?

[46:43] Candace Quarrels: The villages are completely, it's like guerrilla warfare in a lot of parts of Uganda. This is a part of the story that is very real. These warlords come and infiltrate these villages. They kill the men. It's called ruining the women. They rape them. They cut off their clits. And yeah, these women are then made into their slaves in every form of the word.

[47:22] Candace Quarrels: When I was learning the show, Ruined was also on Broadway at the time, which is sort of like a very serious, very real version of the Ugandan part of the Book of Mormon, which I thought was very interesting when I was working on my own character development. And it gives the story of these four Ugandan girls living in a place a lot like this village in the Book of Mormon. And I think one of them has been ruined. The book is based really on one girl, and it's a story of how this happens to her and how it is an intense fear within women all throughout these areas in Uganda. And yeah, it's a very real thing that they do.

[48:20] Jeff Parsons: Goodness gracious.

[48:22] Candace Quarrels: Well, that's hilarious.

[48:25] Jeff Parsons: Hilarious.

[48:26] Candace Quarrels: Yes.

[48:27] Jeff Parsons: Trey Parker, Matt Stone.

[48:28] Candace Quarrels: I mean, yeah.

[48:29] Jeff Parsons: I mean.

[48:30] Candace Quarrels: I mean, it's pretty incredible that they can still get laughed out of this kind of stuff.

[48:33] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[48:34] Candace Quarrels: I mean, it's because people don't believe that it's real. People think that it's just something that they've made up. I mean, it's a lot of what I talked about whenever doing press in the show, like a lot of the interviewers didn't know either. And like, it was one of the things they're like, well, this is just so ridiculous. And like, how do you feel doing this every night? And I would just be like, I feel like it's an opportunity to tell a real story in a way that is digestible in a different way. You know, like a person can go see Ruined and want to do research and understand that this is real. And there is a world where a person could go see the Book of Mormon and, you know, be like, I wonder and type it in and be like, oh, wow, like this really happens.

I think it's a conversation starter. And I think while we are making fun of this, this is something that is happening. It's something that grounded me a lot in my character. I wanted to play Navalungi as someone where this was a very real fear. And this is why she wants to go to Salt Lake City, because this is something that could happen at any point.

[49:42] Jeff Parsons: Wow. That's so fantastic. Thank you for sharing.

[49:45] Candace Quarrels: Just realizing right now that I don't, I think I have always confused female circumcision with like female genital mutilation, but like both of which are known to happen in Africa. I remember reading Iman's story, like the model Iman, who was circumcised at a young age. But it was by like the village woman doctor who does that to all of the women, the girls once they come to a certain age. So like there's that. And then there's what you're talking about, which is like full on mutilation as a source of terror and power.

[50:23] Candace Quarrels: Yes. And I think I had confused those two and I'm just now realizing. So thank you for that.

[50:28] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, of course.

[50:30] Candace Quarrels: I didn't know about Iman. It's a really crazy story with some imagery that I had read in college and have never forgot about. When the general comes in and kind of announces all that, one of the villagers protests and like he full on shoots him. The blood splatters all over Elder Price. So any like confidence that he had about this going well has been pretty much destroyed. But what he has said and what he has shared has touched Naba in a way that has given her hope and something to look forward to.

[51:05] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, absolutely. Talk to me about singing Salt Lake City.

[51:11] Candace Quarrels: One of the best songs in the whole show.

[51:13] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, I loved playing Nabilungi in general. I think she fit in so well with the period of my life that I was in. So hopeful and like filled with joy and like I think there is such beauty in being naive. I think that song in a nutshell is like all of us when we're 16 years old and dreaming of something bigger and better. It's me when I first got the call that I was being sent to New York to audition for the show. I loved that song and I loved her character. I was able to tap into that very easily every night. I mean, I still felt it. I still feel it, you know, it's such a reflection in all of us. I think we all can relate to Naba in that way and feeling like we deserve this dream simply because we exist. We all deserve freedom and beauty and ease.

[52:31] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, I love that song. It's my favorite one in the show, not just because I got to sing it, but because I think it has so much heart and hope in it. And it's a great song. I really connect to it because I think that a lot of the sentiments that she talks about in it are what my ancestors felt when they came to Utah with this like hope of reaching Salt Lake City and reaching a place where you can worship how you want and it's all full of promise, right? And then the church, I remember reading a very specific talk or sermon in one of the general conferences in, I believe, the 70s, in which one of the leaders said, all right, in order to believe the hope of this message, you don't need to come here.

You can find this wherever you are. And I think that that was a real turning point for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints because now it was like, we're a worldwide church and we're brothers and sisters and we're united in faith no matter where you are, you don't have to come to Utah. And I think that the church and the leadership is learning how to do that better and better. That's encouraging to me.

[53:46] Candace Quarrels: Now, speaking as a gay member of the church, I once again realized we got a long way to go.

[53:52] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[53:53] Candace Quarrels: But what I do focus on is that I believe we're making steps in the right direction. And the more I'm there, the more steps I think will be taken, or at least the steps that I want to be taking.

[54:06] Jeff Parsons: Yeah.

[54:07] Candace Quarrels: Now, at the end of the first act, the mission president, who's like the villain of this musical, has requested a progress report, which is very true. When you're on your mission, numbers are kind of important to keep these 19-year-olds on track and doing what they set out to do. So they encourage you to talk to this many people and do this many hours of service a week and those sorts of things. And let's be honest, nothing is happening in this area. So Elder Price is terrified of the mission president finding out about this, and he decides to leave, right? And so with Price gone, Nabulungi comes after seeing Salt Lake City and is like, I'm ready. Let's do this. And Cunningham's like, oh crap, Price isn't here. I guess I need to man up.

[55:01] Jeff Parsons: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this song is such a great first act closer. I mean, once again, brilliant musical theater trajectory, like right on point.

[55:11] Candace Quarrels: No, you're absolutely right. Because Cunningham is finding his own strength, and we have seen him be such an open-hearted vessel this entire time that we're excited to see him empowered. Then musically, they're incorporating Nabulungi singing Salt Lake City, everybody's doing their little bits, and it's just fantastic musical theater. Every character is on stage. There's so many casts. It's amazing.

[55:38] Jeff Parsons: It's amazing.

[55:39] Candace Quarrels: So great. At the top of act two, now Cunningham has to like actually walk the walk. And so he's beginning to teach the villagers. Unfortunately, his imagination comes up again, and he starts making things up. It's based on all sorts of doctrines he may have taken to heart, like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. And he has created this culmination of all of these things to help the villagers with whatever problem they may come up with. One of the cutest numbers in the show, I think. He has visits from Joseph Smith himself, his father, Darth Vader, Yoda, all these people who are like, what are you doing, Arnold? He's like, I don't know, but this is just all I can do. This is the best I can do. They like it. And it's working, right? These stories are meeting them where they are and helping them process the trauma that they're going through, even though they're absolutely made up and have horribly offensive things like Joseph Smith.

[56:47] Jeff Parsons: Effing, fuck, not me effing, I've been saying the word.

[56:53] Candace Quarrels: Well, I wasn't about to say make love to a frog.

[56:59] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. It doesn't give quite the same context.

[57:04] Candace Quarrels: Jeez. But it's something that they understand. He's like relating it. I don't know. He's lying.

[57:11] Jeff Parsons: He's lying.

[57:12] Candace Quarrels: He's making up stories.

[57:13] Jeff Parsons: For sure. No matter how you spin it.

[57:17] Candace Quarrels: Speaking of spinning, Elder Price is spinning out of control because he has entered what he calls spooky Mormon hell dream. Essentially, his guilt is running amok on his subconscious. So he is officially at the same level as Genghis Khan, Jeffrey Dahmer, Adolf Hitler, Johnny Cochran, because he has broken like rule number 72 or whatever in leaving his companion, which is true, by the way, you have to be with your companion at all times unless it's to go to the bathroom.

[57:48] Jeff Parsons: Whoa. I did not know that that was that it was like that.

[57:54] Candace Quarrels: Mm hmm. When it came time for me to leave and I was on the plane by myself, whoo, that was confronting. I was like, you're used to having a buddy for two years right by your side.

[58:07] Candace Quarrels: So when Price awakens from this spooky dream, he recommits to his mission and heads back. He sees that Cunningham is having an incredible amount of success. So now he's excited to jump in and teach as well. He starts to sing "I Believe," which is like great. 11 o'clock number, early in the second act. Funny, exciting, lots of high E vowels, which God bless. And yeah, anything to say about this song? It's really funny.

[58:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's a funny song. I mean...

[58:42] Candace Quarrels: Lots of talk about planets.

[58:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Lots of talk about planets.

[58:47] Candace Quarrels: And just, you know, giving the, like you said, the straight face, separated from the spiritual list of, I am a Mormon, this is what a Mormon believes.

[59:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Totally, totally. By the way, anybody out there, I never used the word Mormon to describe myself.

[59:08] Candace Quarrels: I read that today, didn't... I mean, that's been completely changed, right?

[59:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, in fact, the church has actually made a statement about it, which I was so happy to hear because it never made sense to me. It would be like calling people of the Jewish faith Moseses. Like, it doesn't make any sense doctrinally. And it was just a nickname that people gave to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints early on. And then, I guess, because we tend to be like nice people, we were like, sure, call us that. I don't know.

[59:39] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[59:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We just kind of went along with it. But yeah, it doesn't really make much sense. Mormon is just the name of a prophet like Moses or Noah or anything else.

[59:47] Candace Quarrels: Oh, wow. Okay.

[59:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. So, in the middle of "I Believe," I guess this is kind of important, he goes to the general and is like, I'll preach to you. That ends in one of my favorite visual gags I've ever seen in the theater, which is him having to go to the doctor to have the Book of Mormon removed from his rectum. I laughed. This is so hard. It's so funny. Cunningham is still preaching. Villagers commit to baptism. It's a really beautiful scene. It gave me the chills. It's gorgeous. It's staged really well. It feels respectful. And you feel like these villagers are taking this decision seriously. You know, it's really sweet. And I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

[1:00:39] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, it's really sweet. That leads into all of the missionaries singing "I Am Africa."

[1:00:44] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Do you think people understand that this song is hilarious?

[1:00:47] Candace Quarrels: Yes. 100%. I hope so. I think so. I mean, via what I remember audience reactions being, definitely.

[1:00:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay.

[1:00:59] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. Basically, these missionaries are on such a high that they're like, I am Africa! And we're all like, no, you're not.

[1:01:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, especially with Elder McKinley leading it.

[1:01:12] Candace Quarrels: Oh, yeah. I just, the musical is freaking funny.

[1:01:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is. It has a lot of issues, yes, but it is hilarious.

[1:01:22] Candace Quarrels: No, it really, and if these characters weren't really well drawn, it wouldn't be funny.

[1:01:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It wouldn't. It would just be offensive.

[1:01:31] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:01:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We would not feel the urge to laugh or conversate about it or, you know what I mean?

[1:01:39] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. 100%. Now, even though everybody is on a high, Elder Price is at a new low, man, this guy just can't get a break.

[1:01:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:01:50] Candace Quarrels: So he's drowning his sorrows in coffee, which is, of course, hilarious. Cunningham finds him and convinces him to come back because the mission president is going to be there and they at least need to be companions, right? Even if you're not interested in doing any of this, can you please be here so that we don't get in trouble for not being together? And he agrees. They go back, the mission president arrives, and the villagers who have now become new members of the church decide to put on a pageant as a thank you for everything that Elder Cunningham has taught them. Of course, he is freaking out because he knows that he has taught them a bullshit. And so they begin to reenact these crazy scenarios, including all of the frog love. And the mission president is, of course, horrified. But anyway, the magic's broken, right? And Nabulungi realizes that these stories that had helped everyone so much weren't true. And that's devastating to her, right?

[1:03:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:03:02] Candace Quarrels: And that she's not going to Salt Lake City.

[1:03:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, hello.

[1:03:05] Candace Quarrels: Right. Yeah. And she's like, I'm all packed. I'm ready to go. Like, I hope you love the show. And the president's like, you're not going anywhere. And she's like, he said, like, didn't you say that I was going to? Elder Cunningham is like, no. And she is heartbroken.

[1:03:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, definitely one of the most heart-wrenching parts of the show, for sure. Now, with some of the changes that they've made to the show, she still has this wide-eyed innocence and hope. But they have, I think, tried to make her less ignorant. Would you agree with that?

[1:03:46] Candace Quarrels: Took away the typewriter.

[1:03:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yeah. There's this whole typewriter bit where she's like trying to text people on a typewriter. Now she has an iPad. And apparently, it's about, like, internet or something. Like her internet, I don't know. She can't send a text because of the internet. But yeah.

[1:04:11] Candace Quarrels: So, but, like, she could also just Google Salt Lake City, right?

[1:04:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And that whole thing would be over.

[1:04:17] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:04:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know, still some chinks in that, honestly.

[1:04:24] Candace Quarrels: I love the typewriter bit, honestly.

[1:04:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Really? Did you like that?

[1:04:29] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:04:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It does kind of seem like, of all the things to change, the typewriter bit was the one calling for...

[1:04:36] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. It's like, I'm not getting that she's ignorant from that, I'm getting that they don't have phones. You know?

[1:04:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But okay. Interesting.

[1:04:44] Candace Quarrels: They're trying.

[1:04:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: They're trying.

[1:04:48] Candace Quarrels: They're trying.

[1:04:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. So, when Nabulungi realizes that the stories that Cunningham has been telling are not true, it destroys her. But then the villagers say, you know, we always knew. All along. Like, what do you mean, girl? Their metaphors.

[1:05:10] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. Right.

[1:05:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And, and she's like, oh, gosh, you're right. So then that empowers, like, this next section.

[1:05:17] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:05:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. I mean, Nabulungi saves the day now. I've not seen it. I have read about it. And I, like, briefly talked to Cody, my elder Cunningham, who's the elder Cunningham on Broadway right now. And apparently, like, it's cute. It works. I don't know how it happens.

[1:05:39] Candace Quarrels: Gotcha.

[1:05:40] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So.

[1:05:41] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:05:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But it used to be, you know, elder Cunningham scares him away with more of his, like, stories.

[1:05:47] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:05:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Like, basically, the villagers are using the stories of all of these frog curses and things to create fear in the general so that he won't mutilate everybody.

[1:05:59] Candace Quarrels: Right.

[1:06:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think the nail on the coffin is that he'll, like, turn into a lesbian, right? Which is, like, the worst possible thing that could ever happen. And from what I understand, Nabulungi is the one who drives that home.

[1:06:11] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:06:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That comes from her.

[1:06:13] Candace Quarrels: Which is cool.

[1:06:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's a great change.

[1:06:15] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:06:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's a great change.

[1:06:17] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:06:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. I like it. So then this leads to the last song, which is called "Tomorrow is a Ladder Day."

[1:06:30] Candace Quarrels: It's my last buzzer, you guys. I'm so sorry. I don't understand the usage of the word ladder in this musical.

[1:06:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Tomorrow is a ladder day.

[1:06:39] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. Earlier on, doesn't Elder Price say, like, the ladder days are the afterlife, salvation?

[1:06:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's a big buzzer. That's not right. That's not real. Ladder days are now.

[1:06:52] Candace Quarrels: Oh, okay.

[1:06:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay. Like, when we say the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints, we're talking about, like, okay, Christ set up a church, had his apostles in the olden days, in the oldy oldy times, as Sarah Silverman would say. And then the organization was, like, brought back to earth and reorganized into these, the ladder days. So I'm not saying that the ending number doesn't make sense, because it's a great time. But I will say that when I first saw it, I was like, I don't quite understand.

[1:07:25] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, it's funny.

[1:07:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Because it is. It's a great, it's a great number. It's all about hope. It's like Annie "Tomorrow," you know, it really is like, look to the silver lining, look for the rainbow, all of all of those great musical theater things that leave us leaving the theater on a high. It's all right here in this last number.

[1:07:47] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, it's the coming together of the nice bow on top. And in a really funny little reprise, now we're back to "Hello!", in which all of these villagers are sharing the message that they received of hope, not just through the Book of Mormon, but through the Book of Arnold, right? What Elder Cunningham gave them. You know, it's not just the doctrine. It's about asking yourself, like, why am I here? I remember walking around in a trailer park, you know, talking to people and I'm like, why am I, Jeffrey Scott Parsons, lover of sequins and tap shoes, walking around a trailer park in South Texas? Like why am I here? What specifically am I? Why was I called here? And I think that there's a way that only you can affect the people in the world that you come in contact with. And when you own that, then you start writing your story, right? You write your own Book of Arnold or Book of Mormon or whatever, and you can change the world.

[1:08:50] Candace Quarrels: With your story.

[1:08:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Amen.

[1:08:54] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. I love that. And I think that's what we're left with.

[1:08:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think so, too. I think, I mean, it's so funny, like talking about this has brought so much, like warmth. I love that show. It's actually like, so good. And, you know, I appreciate their openness to trying to change it for the better. I hope that dialogue can continue because I do think that, you know, it is their responsibility if it's going to be the longest running show and be running as times are changing and people are awakening and da da da da da. I do think it is a responsibility of theirs to clarify and educate themselves and other people. And I see such potential for its longevity, and I hope that they handle it with continued grace, you know?

[1:09:54] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:09:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But, all in all, what a show.

[1:09:59] Candace Quarrels: What a show.

[1:10:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What a great time.

[1:10:02] Candace Quarrels: Yeah. I don't think I would ever take my mom to it, but I'd take my brother.

[1:10:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah.

[1:10:07] Candace Quarrels: My brother would like it. I hear it plays so well in Salt Lake City.

[1:10:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm sure. People love it. Look, anybody who takes themselves too seriously.

[1:10:19] Candace Quarrels: Yeah.

[1:10:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Not interested. Probably over 50. Probably would not spend money to go see the Book of Mormon.

[1:10:29] Candace Quarrels: Thank you so much for doing this, Candice. I had a really great time.

[1:10:30] Candace Quarrels: Thank you for having me. Your perspective brought so much, and I hope that what we're left with is what the show leaves us with, which is hope.

[1:10:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover on a musical theater podcast, you can always email me at amusicalpodcasts at gmail.com. Don't forget to follow us on social media on Twitter and Instagram at amusicalpodcast. We also have Patreon! Where for only $1 a month, you can receive bonus content and also support the regular show. And if you want to support the show even more, please leave us a nice review and go to our TeePublic store. So many ways to stay connected. Appreciate you guys. Hey, Ms. Candice, how do we follow you and everything you're up to?

[1:11:20] Candace Quarrels: Yeah, so you can follow me on Instagram at CandiceQuarrels. I also am a member of a band called Mermaid with my partner, Brittany. You can find us on Instagram at @mermaid.band. We have music on Spotify, underneath Mermaid, you can find our link tree there. Yeah, please support us and our magical, magical music.

[1:11:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You guys sound so amazing together. For those who may not realize, Brittany, the other half of Mermaid, was on the show. She was on our Aida episode. And you two sound glorious together on your music. So everyone, please check that out. And everybody out there, thank you for listening. Always remember, today and tomorrow are latter days.