This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jason Graae: Now, you are probably one of the people that worked with Jerry Herman the most, at least that I know. Jerry Herman, of course, legendary musical theatre composer, Hello, Dolly!, Mame. You worked with him so much, in fact, that you were asked to perform at his memorial. By him, posthumously, right?

[0:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Now, that must have felt pretty incredible.

[0:28] Jason Graae: It did. It really did. Yeah, I heard he had a list. He had a list of people that he really wanted to sing at his memorial. And then he also had a list of people that he didn't want to sing. So I guess I made it on the... On the thumbs up list?

[0:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: On the thumbs up list. Yeah. That's so great.

[0:51] Jason Graae: It was really sweet. You know, the really weird thing is that I was at our friend, Marsha Seligson. She was having a Boxing Day party at her lovely condo on the beach. And, you know, it was all like musical comedy types there. Karen Morrow was there and Jerry Sternbach and Valerie Perry and Eileen Barnett. And we were all sitting around the piano singing, because Marsha loves to do that. It's not always my favorite thing to do, but I'd had two glasses of wine. I'd love to sing around the piano. So we were upstairs singing and everybody had stuff. It's like you have to kind of warm up before her parties, which I never want to do. You're in the car on the way to her house.

[1:35] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. And you have to bring music just in case.

[1:41] Jason Graae: And, you know, Valerie Perry was belting her brains out in "Don't Rain on My Parade," and she had clearly warmed up before the party. Anyway, so I sang something and then Jerry Sternbach said, "Jason, sing 'It Only Takes a Moment,'" because I used to sing that all the time with Jerry and my Jerry Herman tribute and all this when I toured with Jerry. And so I sang it and it seemed so high, but I'd had two glasses of wine, so I was slightly high. So I squeaked this thing out and then we went home and I was like, why did I do that? And then I woke up the next morning and heard that Jerry died that night. So I thought I killed him. He heard me.

[2:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She's like, that was the worst Cornelius Hackl I've ever heard. I'm out.

[2:34] Jason Graae: Welcome, everybody, to A Musical Theatre Podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theatre history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons. You can call me Jeff. Today we are talking about The Grand Tour with my friend and musical theatre legend, Jason Graae.

[2:45] Jason Graae: And I'm so excited to be here with you.

[2:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: With my friend and musical theatre legend, Jason Graae.

[2:59] Jason Graae: Oh, hello. Hello, all you listeners out there.

[3:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You are a bridge. Yeah, you're a person, but you're also a bridge to me because you have this career that includes working relationships and friendships with some of the great legends in musical theatre history. And yet you are also very much a contemporary in terms of working now and doing things and staying active. And I love that. I love that I can trust that, you know, about what's going on right now in musical theatre. But then you also can share with me the amazing history and the amazing personalities of all the people you've worked with.

[3:37] Jason Graae: That's nice, Jeffrey. Well, so I'm very grateful that you're here to talk about this show. For those who don't know Jason, he was in the original cast of Forever Plaid. He's been on Broadway in A Grand Night for Singing and Falsettos. He was most recently, I think, The Wizard in Wicked. That's probably the most recent, yeah?

[3:57] Jason Graae: Yeah, before everybody was on the lockdown.

[4:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. And of course, you have had this great relationship with Jerry Herman and his material. I met Jerry in the 80s when I first auditioned for Hello, Dolly! with Carol Channing. And I believe we went to his apartment, his gorgeous east side apartment. He had this big, beautiful waiting room. And Davis Gaines was auditioning for Cornelius. So we were working on our sides together. And I was like, I nailed Barnaby. I was like, so this is a no brainer. And Davis, I was just like, oh man, he's just, he's not even close. Well, of course, he got it. And I didn't even get a call.

[4:40] Jason Graae: But I'm not bitter. But that's where I first met Jerry. And then I never saw him again until Michael Kirker and Jerry joined forces. And they put together this ASCAP, Jerry Herman Legacy Tour. And so it's had kind of many different incarnations. But the very first one went out in 2000. And I was there in Utah.

[5:05] Jason Graae: Yep. And you saw it at St. George.

[5:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yep, it was you, Paige O'Hara, and Karen Morrow. Isn't that crazy?

[5:16] Jason Graae: With Jerry and Don Pippin, his musical director for years. I mean, he conducted Mame and Hello, Dolly!. My God, you were there.

[5:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I was there. I was a high school senior.

[5:26] Jason Graae: Oh my God, that was our first concert together. And then it went on for years.

[5:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it went on for years, you know, it went on for years. And that first one, he was very frail because he was going through a lot of stuff with HIV. At that point of his life, he was doing one of those just prehistoric things that they were doing to people. It wasn't a cure, but they would take the blood out of a person's body, boil it, and put it back into the body to kind of kill the virus and then put the blood back. Yeah, it was tough. But you know, part of it kind of made sense. But it was really tough on the patient. And ultimately, it did not work because it just kept replicating. But Jerry was going through that. And he was so frail in that first concert that we did together. And I thought, wow, at least I got to work with him once, you know, because I thought this, he's not going to be long for this world. And I'm telling you, that was 2000. And he just died almost 2020. It was, you know, it was December 2019. Yeah, it was an incredible tour. It was incredible to get to work with him.

[6:23] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, question, because I feel like Jerry was kind of a private person, in that I'm not sure many of us got to know much more about him other than his belief system that managed to find its way into his music.

[6:35] Jason Graae: Good point. Nobody more optimistic that I've ever worked with. He is the most optimistic, most positive, most generous person I've ever worked with.

[6:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. And that's just as a person. That's just him.

[6:53] Jason Graae: Yeah, professionally and personally, like when you would sing a song, he made you feel like that song was just written for you. You know, he just made you feel so special that you were bringing something special to it that he'd never heard before. He was specific. You know, he's very specific about certain things he needed in the song. When I sang "It Only Takes a Moment," you know, he said, it's very important that at the end, you know, it's always about it only takes a moment. But he was like, at the end, the hook is, it only took a moment. And he said, it's so important to have the railroad tracks right after that to make a meal out of that. It only took a moment. I'm in love.

[7:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so sweet.

[7:42] Jason Graae: But he was very specific about what he needed in his songs. But man, he would let you find your own way with it. It was.

[7:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Wow. That's so amazing.

[7:49] Jason Graae: Hey, Jason.

[7:53] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, Joe.

[7:53] Jason Graae: Do you know that if any of those listeners out there, we have some of the best listeners in all of podcasting. I love my listeners. If they are enjoying A Musical Theatre Podcast as much as you and I are enjoying creating this episode, we are.

[8:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We are.

[8:11] Jason Graae: I would love if they could go and give us five stars on any of the apps that they may be using. If you're feeling up to it, listeners, leave us a nice review, say a few nice words. I would love that. And every little bit helps. It makes a big difference for us as a show. And so I'd be incredibly grateful. And on the other side, if you don't like how we're covering an episode, send me a message and say, hey, I don't agree with this. And then we can keep the conversation going. But if you give me a bad review, that's the end of the conversation. I can't even continue it on. So look, I am dedicated to making this show the best it can be. Now, look, reviews are complex. We talk about this on the show all the time. And because they're so complicated, I was hoping that our guest, Jason, I was hoping that you could share with us some of your greatest hits, your favorite reviews that you've ever received, to really kind of inspire our listeners to do the same for us.

[9:10] Jason Graae: Oh, Jason. Jason seems to have fallen asleep.

[9:13] Jason Graae: Oh, I'm so sorry. Yes, I'd be delighted to read my review. I was just going over them earlier today.

[9:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, were you? You have like a little coffee table book that you thumbed through on a Friday afternoon?

[9:26] Jason Graae: No, actually, I've made them into wallpaper. So I would go to every room and there's a different review. And it's, you know, it's wonderful. Today, I spent the time in a dinette. I found this one, which is my favorite one. This is my most recent review to date.

[9:48] Jason Graae: Oh, and kind of it means a lot to me. With a little bit of mischievous twinkle in his eye, he grabs and holds his audience until he's ready to release. That was Theater Pizzazz. It's horrible. Just sounds like I'm just the grossest performer. I do though. I want my goal is to hold you in the audience until I'm ready to release.

[10:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I'm so proud of that review. I am gonna make a t-shirt out of that.

[10:26] Jason Graae: Oh my gosh, you better make that into wallpaper.

[10:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, I believe the big quote is that Jerry himself handpicked you to star in The Grand Tour.

[10:40] Jason Graae: He did. He did. I was actually at his, I think it was his 75th birthday party. He had a brunch at the Four Seasons Hotel. No, the Beverly Hills Hotel, one of those fancy hotels. He had this brunch, he rented out this big room. And it was like, I just love name dropping these people. But Angela Lansbury was there and Lorna Luft and Michael Feinstein and Karen Morrow. And it was like all these like just who's who of the Jerry Herman world. And I remember Angela Lansbury came up to me and said, I just want to tell you, I feel that the Hello Jerry tour that you've been doing with Jerry has given him a new lease on life. And that he just he made a miraculous recovery. He was in ill health. And she said, I've not seen him this ebullient. It reminds me of, you know, when he was back in the 60s and 70s.

[11:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Angela Lansbury said this to you.

[11:43] Jason Graae: Yeah. And you're still alive.

[11:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I know. I was like, Angela, excuse me, I have to go get some more scrambled eggs. Like I've got things to do. Okay.

[11:51] Jason Graae: First Bea Arthur, now Angie.

[11:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I know. They sang a little bit of "Buddies" together. It was ridiculous. And I sang "It Only Takes a Freaking Moment" again. I sang that.

[12:04] Jason Graae: Always.

[12:05] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Always. But it didn't seem so high 13 years ago or 15 years ago. So yes. So I was leaving that party and Jerry said, "Jason, I want to talk to you." He said, you know, they're doing The Grand Tour at the Colony Theater in Burbank. And I was like, oh, he said, "Jason, the role of Yakubovsky reads like your driver's license. This role was written for you. Would you please do it?" And luckily I had the next four months free.

[12:36] Jason Graae: I was like, of course, if Jerry Herman, like, you know, asked you to do something like that. He also financially helped me out a little bit because I said, you know, the Colony Theater, that's a huge role in the Colony Theater doesn't pay all that great.

[12:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[12:49] Jason Graae: And he said, I will, I will help things along. So I was like, I'll take it. It was amazing. It was amazing.

[12:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: What a generous man. I think that of all of his shows, The Grand Tour is the one show that I hadn't sat down and listened to from start to finish. Like I knew songs, but it was the one musical that I hadn't done that. And so in preparation for this conversation, I finally did. I like, well, I didn't sit down. I was doing dishes, but I put on my headphones.

[13:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: A wonderful score. And I'm not just saying I mean, it's Jerry Herman, of course, it's a freaking wonderful score. But like, even from the overture, I totally got those feelings, those feelings that everybody talks about when you listen to an overture where these great melodies were coming through. And I got that excitement of, Ooh, I get to hear this at some point throughout the evening, you know? Anyway, so I had just a wonderful time listening to the original cast album. It's a great score for everybody out there. Jerry Herman, you can go back and listen to our Hello Dolly episode that we did at the beginning of the podcast, really came onto the scene with the huge juggernaut Hello Dolly. Boom.

Now he's this huge Broadway composer that then had another huge colossal hit with Mame. Right after Mame, he has this trio of flops. The first being Dear World in '69. And that was starring Angela Lansbury based on the Madwoman of Shiloh from there. Shiloh. Oh, see, cause I don't speak French. I only know it because I did it in high school.

[14:35] Jason Graae: Did you really?

[14:37] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. We did the play, the Madwoman of Shiloh by Jean Genet. Dear World has my favorite Jerry Herman song of all time.

[14:48] Jason Graae: I don't want to know.

[14:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I never said I love you.

[14:50] Jason Graae: Oh, that one is good too.

[14:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I was thinking of I don't want to know.

[14:56] Jason Graae: I don't want to know. It's fantastic.

[14:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh wow. Okay. So yeah, Madwoman of Shiloh. And then in 1974 he does Mac and Mabel. I've said this before on the podcast. If there was a flop that could be a hit, can it please be Mac and Mabel?

[15:12] Jason Graae: Yeah.

[15:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: My gosh, just delightful, which is a musical about the famous silent film director, Mack Sennett and his muse, girlfriend, Mabel Norman. And then in 1979, he writes The Grand Tour. Now, The Grand Tour is based on the play Jakubowski and the Colonel, which was an Eastern European play that was then translated into English. And they did it on Broadway, right?

[15:40] Jason Graae: Yeah, it was brought to the film as well with Danny Kaye.

[15:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly. Yep. Yeah. So Jerry Herman like musicalizes it. It premieres in San Francisco at the Grand Theater, and it's having problems. They're having a hard time really nailing the tone of this show because it is infinitely more serious than any of the rest of his shows in terms of subject matter. It is taking place during the war. All of our main characters are fleeing the Nazis. It's like the last 15 minutes of The Sound of Music for an entire musical. And so they brought Tommy Tune in, I think, to be a show doctor on it. Anyway, it opens on Broadway. And of these three flops that he has in a row, this one is the shortest. It only runs for 61 performances, closes very quickly, especially in a Broadway season that also had Sweeney Todd. It had They're Playing Our Song. Was Evita that year?

[16:41] Jason Graae: Evita was later on that year.

[16:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It was in the '80 Tony Awards. It would have been in the year after in terms of the Tony Awards. Right. So it just kind of closes and goes away and is largely forgotten. Despite how it went back on tour, though, then it went to Chicago after.

[16:58] Jason Graae: Oh, they went back out after it closed.

[17:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And did that flop too?

[17:02] Jason Graae: I think so. I know it went to Chicago because I saw it in Chicago. And now I'm always confused at the time frame. But I was a senior. I believe I was a I was either a junior or a senior at Cincinnati Conservatory. And I went with a few friends and we went to see it at the Erie Crown Theater in Chicago. Huge, ginormous theater. And Joe Gray was a hero of mine. You know, growing up in Tulsa, Oklahoma, you didn't get a lot of exposure to music, Broadway music theater stars. And at that time, the two main guys that were like kind of role models for me, you know, that did stuff in movies and you would see on The Ed Sullivan Show were John Raitt and Joel Gray. Those were kind of like the two main guys.

Joel Gray, of course, was a huge Broadway star and film star from Cabaret, having won both the Tony Award and the Oscar for playing the emcee. And he'd done George M. And we had done that community theater. So I was so aware of him and especially from the Cabaret movie and all that. And so I saw this and I was just thrilled to see him on stage because he was just an idol of mine. And I went backstage afterwards with my college friends. I said, I've got to meet him and get his autograph.

[18:18] Jason Graae: Oh, so I waited around and he came out and I was like exploding. And I said, like, such a dick. I said, you know, someday you're going to be asking for my autograph. And he looked at me like, what a dick. And so but he was very sweet and he like chuckled and signed. And of course, I was just on cloud nine. I was so thrilled. OK, so cut to like I don't know how long ago. It was like 10 years ago at a reprise opening night here in L.A. at UCLA. It was after the show at the reception and Joel Gray was there and he calls me over, Jason. And like I looked around to make sure as many people as possible saw that. And so I was like, oh, hey, Joel. And I've done some benefits with them. You know, like we've seen each other.

We know each other, but we've never worked together. And so he said to me, wow, I heard you did a really good job in The Grand Tour out here a couple of years ago. And I said, well, thanks, Joel. And he goes, yeah, I heard you didn't do all your Jason Grosz shtick.

[19:25] Jason Graae: Oh, oh my God.

[19:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I was like my mouth dropped as far open as yours is right now. And I went, I'm so excited that you even know about my Jason Grosz. So people know about me. So they know about me. I'm on your radar. Thanks, Joel. That's shady.

[19:45] Jason Graae: That is some shady library is open business.

[19:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It was a little. Yes, it was full of shade. But then I told him about where we had first met and about me asking for his autograph and me saying like a jerk, you know, someday you're going to be asking for my autograph. And he said, do you have a pen? Because I'd love your autograph. And I didn't. Oh, wasn't that sweet?

[20:11] Jason Graae: That's sweet. All right.

[20:13] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You pulled me back in, Joel. Pulled me back. So I said, OK, you can remain my hero. Wow. But it was a little dicey there for a couple of it got prickly. Oh my God. It made my day. That story has had more mayonnaise than South Pacific.

[20:35] Jason Graae: But I guarantee that not as many people have fallen asleep during it.

[20:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So there you go. That is great. Now, the New York production did go on to receive a couple of Tony Award nominations, one for the score. Thank goodness, because like I said, it's full of great treasures. One for Joel Gray, who was kind of touted as the star. Like you said, he was a legend at this point. But it's actually kind of a shared starring role.

[21:04] Jason Graae: Yeah, I would say that it's a trio of lead characters.

[21:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is a trio. And because it was a big, magnificent Broadway show, you know, I mean, they made it there was a car on stage and the cast was enormous. And but the story is really not about that. It's about these three people. It's about Jakubowski, this immigrant, this Polish Jewish immigrant that's found himself in France, fleeing the Nazis with songs and dances. And then you've got the colonel who he meets up with, who's like this rigid, uber conservative sort. And Jakubowski is this funny, canny, delightful, sly survivor. And it's, by the way, why Jerry Herman loved this character so much, because it's so it's got so much of Jerry's spirit in it. He was a survivor.

[21:54] Jason Graae: Absolutely. I was going to say, this isn't an autobiographical musical. And yet I feel like it's the musical that has the character who is most like Jerry.

[22:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh my God. The characters just got Jerry all over it. The main song, Jakubowski's big anthem, I'll be here tomorrow, became Jerry Herman's anthem. It became like, you know, I don't know that everybody knew that it was his AIDS anthem, but it was him singing, I'm going to get through this war and we will be here tomorrow going on. You know, and it was he would come out and sing it sometimes as an encore for our concerts. And oh my God, we would all be in the wings just weeping because it was just and he meant it. You know, he really meant it. And yes, Jerry was thrilled with our Burbank production and Evan Weinstein directed it. And Evan pared down the show because you had to because it was the Colony Theater, which seats under 300 seats. And he really made it about the relationship. And I did it with John Gannon and Tammy Tappan, who's fabulous.

[23:00] Jason Graae: I know she's the best.

[23:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And they just simplified everything and made it about the three of us. And Jerry loved that. And he said, I love the storytelling of this production so much more than on Broadway. And he said kind of what happened on Broadway. And I don't mean in any way to say anything derogatory about my hero, Joel Grey, but he had a lot of clout at that point. And the show's got kind of a multiple personality syndrome, you know. And so everybody's trying to figure out, as you said, the tone, because the tone was very challenging. You know, it's a very dark subject matter filled with these upbeat, spectacularly optimistic Jerry Herman songs. And it's a comedy. And I believe the original play was a comedy. It was Danny freaking K did it.

You know, I think there's a light touch to the tone of it and the original source material. But yet you're dealing with Nazis and Jews and Germany. And, you know, it was a very dark time. And so Joel Grey, I've heard he's kind of took the reins a little bit because he felt the director wasn't finding that tone. And so he started to kind of take the reins. And it became more of a starring vehicle for him. And it became a little more about all about Yakubovsky. And it is Yakubovsky's story mainly. But it's all about the three of them. So we got to that. That was, I think, the most successful part of our production was that we made it about the three of us. Jerry Herman is so famous for big shows.

You you don't do a pared down version of Hello, Dolly. There better be a staircase. There better be a woman in a dress with feathers coming out. Right. And and that's what we love about him. It's it's quintessential Broadway. And he was able to bring that style to really interesting topics, even in terms of gay relationships in La Cage aux Folles. So as traditional musical theater as he is, he was able to bring his style and his optimism into other topics, other areas as time has gone on.

[25:07] Jason Graae: Yeah. Do you think there is a version of the show where tonally it works or is it just too back and forth?

[25:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I am also an optimist. And so I feel in the right hands that it could work, because I think with a score like that, with a hero like that, with these three characters who are so interesting, I do think there's a way our hands were tied. The director's hands were tied a little bit because the book by Mark Bramble and Michael Stewart, Mark was there every step of the way during rehearsals, which was, you know, for all of us out here was just such a kick to have Jerry Herman and Mark Bramble in the rehearsals and there with us and, you know, in the casting process and all that. So that was really great. I was so hopeful and the director had some very interesting ideas to darken it up and to do stuff with it. But his hands were tied a little bit because Michael Stewart's estate, they won't allow his lines to be switched and changed. And I think the book was very rooted in old fashioned musical comedy.

[26:10] Jason Graae: Yeah. The estate is also responsible for Mac and Mabel. That's why a lot of times these productions can't take it and go a different direction or put a different book writer with it to adapt it and things like that, because they got to go back to the estate. What was the original?

[26:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, I think eventually someday that grasp will be released. And I think people might be able to, you know, have some freedom with those shows because Mac and Mabel is another one. That's just it's a score like no other score. And and The Grand Tour is that went, I do think The Grand Tour could work beautifully if it just needs some tweaking and.

[26:53] Jason Graae: I sometimes wonder when we're out of these time periods of great sorrow and trouble, like World War II, when we're in our safe bubble and then we see a show like The Grand Tour that has such extremes of joy and fear, we're like, well, that's too extreme. Those things don't totally go together. And it's like, yeah, that's easy for us to say. It's easy for us who haven't had to live those extremes. But I wonder if one of the things that we really explore in The Grand Tour is that that's life. And that can be life. And at the end of the day, tomorrow is still going to come. And if you lose sight of that, then it doesn't work. Then life just doesn't work. You're so right, Jeffrey. And I think that's what the show's trying to convey.

It's like you make the best out of whatever your situation is. And that's what we do as humans. I mean, we're doing that now. You know, everybody's doing the best they can. And we're putting a positive spin on it. And we've got Zoom so that we can all communicate. And we're performing on these freaking video things, which I love doing. But it's like, if I don't hear an audience laugh soon, I'm going to throw myself out a window. You know, and you do these videos and there's no response. I know, just silence. It's just like your worst nightmare as an actor, just having no response at all. No applause, no laughter. But I mean, we're making the best of it. And you're so right. And that's the theme of The Grand Tour is he just keeps picking himself up and getting onto the next situation.

And there's always this Nazi that shows up and it's like, ah, and he's a survivor. And it shows you how he's doing it. And I just think, I do think it's possible. I wonder if there is a younger generation who's going to come out of this, the pandemic and everything that goes along with it, that is willing to kind of throw the conventions of genre and what is acceptable tonally out the window. And we might have a future of more shows that are kind of a little of everything. You know, I think you see that more and more in movies, like Get Out is both a drama and a comedy and a horror film, you know?

[29:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. I'm with you. I think so, too. I just hope that we go in the direction of, I'm a little tired of the Broadway send-ups for everything.

[29:25] Jason Graae: Oh, absolutely.

[29:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I think we've done that. It's been done to death, you know, and they were great. Something Rotten was, you know, fantastic and Spamalot was hilarious and all that. But it's like now it seems to be just the easy go-to of let's send up the producers now. Let's do Hello, Dolly! It's like, all right.

[29:47] Jason Graae: It's hard to trust the art form sometimes. And for someone like me who loves the art form so much and believe, and that's what kind of this whole podcast is about, is how much I've received from studying these stories and living in the world that they have created. We can do it. We don't need to be constantly winking at the audience and saying, see, we're doing it, we're doing it.

[30:07] Jason Graae: No, and that has its place. And it's got its place. And I want to do it forever. I love camp. And I love winking at the audience as much as possible. But it's like, as an older person, I want to be enlightened. I want to be shocked. Hamilton thrilled me. Natasha, Pierre and the Great Comet.

[30:24] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's what I was gonna say.

[30:26] Jason Graae: It set me over the moon. And I wasn't even sure who was who half the time. I don't even know what the show is about. But I love it. I loved it. I could not get enough of it. I got that CD and I was like, I still listen to it. And it's thrills me. And I want to be out of my comfort zone. And I want to be thrilled by new things. And I want to be confused by the story. Then you've got great things like Dear Evan Hansen, which thrilled me as well, you know, and that was very linear, easy storytelling to grab onto, but, you know, but different and emotional and earnest, you know, I all those things, but let's go forward.

[31:06] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Let's talk through the show really quickly, just to give people some of the flow of it. By the way, I'm eating a Jerry Herman fruit of the month club cherry, because I've been on his fruit of the month club for like the last 13 years. How about that? Jerry Herman has kept me regular for 13 years. You're welcome. You're so welcome. Take that Joe Gray. I don't think Joe Gray's been regular in a long time. You heard it here, folks.

[31:39] Jason Graae: You heard it here, folks. Cherries are delicious. Cherries are my favorite fruit of all time. They look wonderful. Do you know that where I'm from, it's like a small, you know, a small Utah farm town that's known for fruit stands, like we have fruit stands all along the highway. And so it's kind of a rite of passage that at some point in your adolescence, you work at the fruit stands and you work cherry season or you work peaches, you know, and boy oh boy, do you learn quickly that you don't just eat fruit throughout the day. You know, like I remember my first day on cherry picking season. I was like, I get to have as many cherries as I want throughout this entire shift. And the next day I didn't have any cherries. That is such a beautiful story.

[32:29] Jason Graae: So the Grand Tour starts with this character that we keep talking about. Yeah, his full name S.L. right? S.L. Yakubovsky, but I don't know what the S and L stand for. Yeah, who knows? He starts out the show with this great song, which is one of the big anthems, like we talked about, I'll Be Here Tomorrow. And throughout the song, he's painting the story of what has led him to this point. And wow, what an introduction to a character. Yeah, it's a lot like right off the bat. Yeah, it's the 11 o'clock number. And yet it's, you know, happening at 8:10, if we're lucky. And on matinee days was a little later. But it's all the backstory to tell you to get to you to where he is, which is in France. It started in no started in Poland.

He was like born in Poland, right? Born in Poland, and then he escapes to Vienna. And then he gets to Paris. Right. And every single time he thinks, Oh, I'll go here and then I'll be safe. And then as soon as he gets there, he realizes not safe. And the flames have only been fanned because of World War Two, the Nazis keep invading everywhere. And as a Polish Jew, he realizes how unsafe he is. So now he's looking to get to like the French coast. And he has rented this car. He's like bought it and rented. Yeah, because he went to Enterprise and like rented a car. He bought this car, but he doesn't know how to drive it. There is a colonel at the hotel, who also is trying to get to the coast, because he has some names that he needs to deliver to this, to this like secret agent person who's going to be wearing a flower and a cafe.

He needs a car and he can drive. So it's like this perfect odd couple moment. Now the one thing is the kind of thorn in this whole equation is that the colonel is horribly anti-Semitic. And so now it is up to Jakubowski to convince the colonel to do this.

[34:34] Jason Graae: Yeah, despite all of his, like, it's kind of impressive that even after expressing such disgust and hatred that he's like, no, you're my guy. Like, I'm not, I'm not going to go looking for anybody else. We're going to, we're going to work on this. And that's where the comedy ensues. An anti-Semitic colonel and a Jewish immigrant. It's an unlikely couple.

[34:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It's an unlikely couple who, you know, of course can't stand each other. And we know that by the end, they're going to develop a Driving Miss Daisy type affection for each other, I guess.

[35:09] Jason Graae: And he has a fantastic song, Do It For Poland.

[35:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Exactly.

[35:13] Jason Graae: But the colonel needs Jakubowski. Jakubowski needs the colonel. They both have something they can get out of the other person. And so they're, you know, forced fed into this relationship. But, but it's a great song. At least do it for Poland.

[35:29] Jason Graae: Every song is great. I had such a great time. The dishes have never been cleaned so quickly. That's a quote.

[35:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That is Clive Barnes.

[35:40] Jason Graae: Um, now they're on the road, right? The colonel still doesn't like him. However, they are going to stop and pick up his girlfriend known as Marianne. And unfortunately, probably the least interesting character in the piece. She's just kind of a perfect woman that everyone falls in love with. Originally, it was played by Florence Lacy. Now I want to just take a moment and shout out Flo Lacy, who is one of the most incredible voices that you probably have never heard. Right? Like, I don't think people know Florence Lacy as much as they should.

[36:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I agree. She's amazing. I don't think I've ever even met her. And I saw her in The Grand Tour. I think that's the only time I've ever seen her. Her other, well, I mean, I know she did Evita.

[36:29] Jason Graae: Yeah, she was a replacement Evita.

[36:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yep. And she did Irene Molloy.

[36:35] Jason Graae: At one point, she played Irene and was technically way too old for Irene, but she was a fantastic Carol cover. So she was playing both Irene Molloy and a Dolly cover. I don't know when that was.

[36:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That doesn't happen too often.

[36:48] Jason Graae: Right? Yeah, what a voice. It was weird because she has that beautiful song that I used to sing on tour with Jerry when Jerry was there and he played it for me. I belong here.

[36:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So it's a gorgeous song.

[36:59] Jason Graae: It's like her anthem, you know, just she just loves her where she lives and her country houses before she's whisked away. But she was like Evita. You know, when she sang it, it was like, I belong here.

[37:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, you listen to that cast album. She is belting everything. But it is just like full Chez voice. It's really impressive.

[37:21] Jason Graae: It's very impressive. It's like the star to be from Annie came over and took over in The Grand Tour.

[37:26] Jason Graae: I'm Marianne! Let me get in that car, Colonel!

[37:34] Jason Graae: You know, when Tammy Tappan did it, who's just, you know, one of the most stunning vocalists and actresses I've ever met, you know, she just had such, you know, I mean, she could sing it that way if she wanted to. But she, you know, hers was very intimate and beautiful. And then she had like the notes when she needed it. But it was it was so heartfelt and just so beautiful.

[37:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know, that's fantastic.

[37:54] Jason Graae: I preferred her version. But watching in the Eric Crown Theater, Flo Lacy belting the song out, it was fabulous. It was thrilling.

[38:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so exciting. So they get Marianne, and now they're off. Now, the rest of the show kind of plays out in episodes, they get on a train, and then Nazis get on a train. And so then they have to figure out something else. And then the Nazis come there and then they need to figure out something else. It might honestly work really well as like a television. I know that like no one is going to make a TV musical version of The Grand Tour. But boy, would it work really well with commercial breaks?

[38:35] Jason Graae: I would have loved some commercial breaks because I never left the stage. You know, it's very dense at first, with the plot, and then it becomes these different, as you said, episodes, you're right. And it's almost review-like it's like now they're at a circus. And now they've all got to become circus performers, because the Nazis are there very similar to The Sound of Music when they're all performing So Long, Farewell, and the Nazis are the audience, you know, so there's that. And then they go to a wedding. And, you know, the Jewish wedding was very popular in the 70s. There's a whole wedding dance that has nothing to do with anything, they just find themselves, they're escaping, and they end up at a country wedding, and there's a big wedding dance.

And you're like, going, wow, you know, this was after Fiddler, right, it was very popular. And then you think of early modern Millie, where all of a sudden, Millie is like singing, you know, in the movie, she's at a wedding singing this Jewish wedding thing, which has nothing to do with anything. And then The Grand Tour, like falls into that category. It's like, like Jewish weddings, man couldn't get any bigger. He was choreographing us, you know, there were a couple dancers in the group, and then the rest of us, and you know, we're like doing this. What is the show? And I will one of the things I always remember is that, you know, we were doing the scene work with Evan. And since we had a parentown cast, we only had like one main Nazi.

So Gordon Goodman was like, the Nazi, the Nazi. So everywhere we go, there's Gordon Goodman. Oh, he found us again at the circus. So the beginning happened when we're on the train. And Gordon Goodman, like, we're all on the train. And it's very dark and very, very real. And Evan and direct.

[40:50] Jason Graae: Don't look at me. He slays them. Slays them. He lays them in the aisle. But I mean it was so challenging for everybody to like... Okay so how do we do that? The other really thing that I'll always remember Peggy Higgie. She is one of my dearest friends and she... I mean I'll Be Here Tomorrow is the opening anthem and it is kind of like the 11 o'clock number. But the real eleven o'clock number that happens at 11 o'clock is You I Like. Which is just a fabulous... It's finally when the Colonel and Yakovovsky are about to go their separate ways. And you know they realize like they have become great friends against all odds. And they sing You I Like which is a fabulous song. It's probably the greatest song on the show.

And but there's somebody had just gotten shot. Somebody just got shot right before the song. So their dead body was lying there. And we have got this big great... And Peggy started to choreograph and said, "Peggy what are we going to do with the corpse? What do we do with that thing? Oh my god how do we get rid of the dead body so we can have our number? Our dance number." This is so crazy. Oh it's so funny. I mean there were so many hurdles for the entire company of just like, oh man how do we make this work? You know the show's all over the map and you just have to give yourself to it. And that's what these characters had to do. And so ultimately we could justify it all perfectly. And I love that.

Embrace the discomfort. That's great. You've got to embrace the discomfort. You've got to go with it and do it loud and proud. You can't ever do it you know halfway. And they added which was very peculiar for Marianne because of the way Marianne's written. As you said you know she's not a terribly interestingly written role. They added a song that was cut. It's something about give me one more night. It seems like it's cut from Cabaret but they end up in their travels. They find themselves in a brothel. All of a sudden the beautiful country girl Marianne who everybody's just in love with she's just you know piety personified and she's all of a sudden comes out in like you know fishnets and garter belts and like you know a bustier and she's singing it.

And Tammy was fabulous. I'm sure. She was so fabulous and she just became Sally Bowles. Marianne all of a sudden just becomes Sally Bowles in Cabaret and it was just so surreal. The thing is Jerry Herman is incapable of writing a bad song. Right. People love the song you know. It always brought down the house. Wow. Some of the other songs I want to mention that happened through the deaths and production numbers. As Jakubowski starts falling in love with Marianne he connects with her and she starts liking him not from a romantic place but like genuinely enjoys him and his company and the amazing human that he happens to be. And he's everything the Colonel isn't. Exactly. Exactly. And the Colonel is seeing this which makes him like Jakubowski less and less.

So there's this great song called More and More slash Less and Less which is one of those terrific like musical theater I see where each person has like the verse and they go together. Oh it's like such a great song. It made me so happy to hear that. Isn't he witty? Don't you like his style? Because they're singing about him. Right. So Marianne is how delightful he is and how witty and Colonel's just watching it going what a creep. I hate him. And I'm sitting there with you know doing bell kicks. Aren't I silly? And also a song that's very underrated that is one of Jerry's most stunning songs. Marianne. His love song to Marianne which is just gorgeous. It's so simple and it's so different than any other Jerry Herman song you know.

He's so deceptively simple but this just has such a different sound for him. That's so cool. Great. So we've talked about the train. We've talked about the little circus. And to continue the Sound of Music similarities our trio ends up in a convent with like Sister Mary Magdalene. What's her name? Mother Madeline. No I feel that we switched. Did you switch that? The convent to the brothel. Oh that's where the brothel came in. Yes. Got it. That makes sense. I'm gonna say 99% sure we skipped the convent and that's they replaced it with the brothel. That means that somebody gets killed in the brothel instead of the convent. So I guess that's better. Yeah. I think it's much better to be murdered in a brothel than a convent.

Yeah right. It's less disruptive. Not good word of mouth for Catholics. They need all the help they can get right now. You know. In any case there's this like last set piece this last big set piece where the Nazis come and the colonel is forced to kill someone. That leads to You I Like which is the song that you then performed at the memorial. It's a glorious number. Great song. We see that these two people have learned to really not only coexist but appreciate each other which man yet another theme that I think is very timely right now. It's one thing to like stand each other for a couple of hours. It's another thing to come away from an experience and say I actually appreciate that person and love them.

You know there's a gray area with everybody and we're in such a black and white time of our life. It's either it's them or us these days you know and no one's black or white. We're all gray. We're multifaceted and if we don't get onto the same gray page we're going to be screwed. Agreed. Or the same graw page. Thank you. I'll be here all year. I will be here all year. I'll be here all year. No but it's true. I wasn't even expecting to or I wasn't even planning on talking about that theme but how important for us to take that away from this lovely relationship. You know this makes me just want to like get a hold of this show and just figure something out and do it again. Yeah. You know talking to you I feel optimistic about it because I had certain memories about it.

It was it was disappointing that that it didn't go better that I just felt like maybe maybe with the new direction and and doing it smaller and all that they're going to figure out all the challenges that this show has and it's got challenges. It just it's in the scores and the script. The score is perfect but I mean putting those Jerry Herman songs juxtaposed against this subject matter was a challenging thing but I do think it's possible to make this thing work. I would love to see it. I would too and I do think it you know and maybe if we got some wiggle room with the script. Come on Stuarts. Come on Stuarts. Ease up. So the trio finally get to the coast and it's time now to board the boat for England which is kind of the next stop in this tour.

Is it England? Is that where he's going? Okay I forgot. And so they're all ready to to board the boat. He of course has developed this huge romantic love for Marianne and then they are told that only two of them two of the three will be able to go on the ship. Jakubowski asks the colonel and Marianne to go that they should be the ones to be together and that like he said at the beginning of the show he'll go on he'll be here tomorrow. Even with this kind of setback he'll still face life with the optimism that he always has and that's how the show ends. And you believe it. Yeah. You believe that he's gonna survive. You know when we were talking about some of the shows that have come out recently that are earnest and genuine nobody did that better than Jerry Herman.

Because he meant it because that's who he is. That's so beautiful. That's who he is. I don't know anybody that's as optimistic had it such an optimistic outlook. It's so meta in a way that this was his biggest flop and yet within that story lies this optimism that we're kind of having a conversation about which is there is good there. There's something to be seen. There's something to look at and enjoy. And that is the theme of the show to begin with. Like it's very meta. You're absolutely right. And it paved the way for him then to write La Cage Aux Folles which was next. Yeah. And that was his you know return to being hit maker. Yeah. Well thank you so much Jason for going through this with me.

What a... Loved it. What a gift. There's so little material about this show out there and I hope that everyone has enjoyed hearing about this unique piece of musical theater and actively maybe seeks it out to listen to some of these great songs that we've talked about. As always if you have recommendations for shows that we cover on a musical theater podcast you can always email me at amusicalpodcast at gmail.com. Also be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at amusicalpodcast for more great content. How do we follow you and everything you're up to? Oh I have a website jasonrod.com. I started this YouTube channel because all the kids are doing it. So I was like all right I guess I gotta like put it out there.

Hawk my wares like Allie Hackam. So I... Out of my dreams. Out of my dreams. So please go to my YouTube channel. It's the one with my picture on it. There's a couple I think but mine's the official YouTube thing. Follow me there because I'm going to try to get the swing of that. That's Jason Graa. G-R-A-A-E. In the meantime we'll be here tomorrow y'all. Enjoy your day. Bye. This is another one. Remember when we used to do shows in theaters? Oh I heard about that. It was such a great time. We would like all be together and perform and the audience would sit together. And there were like musicians in an orchestra pit. So every year I do Ebeneezer Scrooge in Scrooge in Love. This new musical. It's the... Larry Grossman who was on the podcast.

Was Larry on the podcast? Yeah he was so sweet. You've talked to Larry more recently than I have. I love him so much. I think this was our third or fourth year doing it at San Francisco. It's such a big hit. So finally the San Francisco Chronicle came in to review it and she wrote, I'm sure lovingly, In Jason Graw's twinkle toes rendering of Ebeneezer Scrooge, he bounces and bubbles his way through Dickensian London. Well that sounds nice. All those workers and tenants and urchins and relatives he disdained before, they totally love him now, soaking in and reflecting back his contagious avuncular glee. Graw makes his surroundings into fuel for his reactions as alive to the possibility of a spark in the world around him as a heat-seeking missile.

It's a lot of words. A heat-seeking missile. A heat-seeking missile which sounds close to, I hold my audience until I'm ready to release. Sometimes reviewers just don't know... When to stop. When to stop. It's like a column and I was like, it started badly with twinkle toes. I'm not sure I was going for twinkle toes as Ebeneezer Scrooge. He sings a song called happier where I do a whole tap dance, you know. Adorable. Yeah, you know, he's transformed. So it works beautifully for the show. Yeah, but this is one of those paragraphs I read about 80 times in every different angle I could find. I'm trying to find something good about it. Am I a weapon of mass destruction? Oh my god. Give us a good review, listeners. We love you.