This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So one thing I have to do on the podcast a lot is keep myself from singing because we can't afford the copyrights. We can't pay for the songs. And what's really interesting about Pirates of Penzance is that I think a lot of people think it's from the early 80s, late 70s, maybe because of all the pictures that we've seen of that big Broadway production. But it is so much older than that. It is probably no, it's without a doubt the oldest show that we have covered thus far on a musical theater podcast, which also means public domain. And Gina, you are hereby allowed to sing whatever you want from the show because it is free 99.

[0:45] Gina Morgano: Oh my goodness.

[0:47] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Isn't that exciting?

[0:48] Gina Morgano: Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, I was not prepared to say...

[0:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Just to let you know, though. So wait, I know that you're a classical singer, but like soprano, where are you living?

[0:59] Gina Morgano: I am a high mezzo soprano.

[1:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love it. So you'd be like an Edith? Or would you go full Mabel here?

[1:06] Gina Morgano: Yeah, no, it's actually funny because I was called back for Mabel around the time I was finishing grad school. And yeah, I mean, thank goodness I didn't get it because I couldn't sing it. It was so high.

[1:19] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is really freaking high.

[1:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Welcome everybody to a musical theater podcast where we discuss the cultural and emotional impact of some of our favorite musicals in theater history. My name is Jeffrey Scott Parsons, you can call me Jeff. Today we are discussing Gilbert and Sullivan's hilarious operetta, The Pirates of Penzance, which was a listener request from Sophie who wrote in and said, quote, it's such a fun and underrated show and it got sort of abandoned after the 90s, unquote, 1990s, by the way. I also have to shout out Makoto, who wrote me a long time ago requesting that we cover Gilbert and Sullivan, and I've been trying to find the right opportunity. She did an independent study on this composing duo and had this to say about them, which just totally blew my mind.

Quote, on revisiting the works in the study, I found a lot of richness that I hadn't picked up on previously. The works have very interesting things to say about power dynamics, policing of women's autonomy and sexuality, bureaucracy's indifference to human concerns, the inherent exploitive nature of capitalism, and so much more are explored within them. The cynicism of Gilbert's libretti and the deep earnestness of Sullivan's music create a harmony of opposites that works almost too well to be true, and I feel like the works kind of function within their own topsy-turvy universe, a funhouse mirror reflecting our own human absurdity. I found them a bit like Rodgers and Hammerstein, often dismissed as antiquated and fluffy, but in reality containing rich, complex characters and challenging subjects."

Unquote. What? This is maybe the best email I've ever received. Thank you, Makoto, and I hope that we can live up to your incredible view on this composing duo. Well, here we are at last covering Gilbert and Sullivan, and here to join me is someone who really represents, I think, a peaceful bridge between the classical opera and musical theater worlds. That's the place where we need to live today, folks, and I'm so grateful she's here. Everyone, please welcome Gina Morgano. Yay!

[3:44] Gina Morgano: Thank you so much, Jeff. I'm so excited to be here.

[3:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: All right, so talk to me a little bit about how you found yourself in this place where you're fluent, yeah? You speak both opera and musical theater fluently, so talk to me about how you found yourself in that place.

[3:57] Gina Morgano: Sure. Well, thank you for saying that. I grew up as a classical musician. I played piano and violin and clarinet, and I spent my whole childhood in orchestras and bands, and I always loved musical theater. I would go to see shows with my family, starting with Phantom when I was maybe five years old. Sure. And I trained classically, but I always had a love for musical theater, and I was really lucky that my childhood piano teacher, her father was a jazz musician, so she was not one of those stuffy teachers that only let us do classical. She allowed me to embrace all of my musical interests, and so from there, I went on to study classical voice in college and in grad school, but I was always doing musicals.

I was in the musical theater program at Northwestern, and then I was doing musicals in grad school at San Francisco Conservatory, and then I moved to New York, and I was singing classical symphonic concerts and then doing cabarets at 54 Below, so I've just been really grateful that my mentors and my teachers have allowed me to explore my varied interests throughout my life.

[5:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's so cool. That's so cool. So for those who may find that meeting of genres intimidating, to say the least, which I include myself in this, is the difference solely in technique, or is it also in approach and kind of culture? What do you think?

[5:31] Gina Morgano: I think it's both, for sure. Sure. From a technical perspective, the way that you are aligning your vocal mechanism is slightly different in these different genres. That said, we want to have a balanced instrument, so I do think that it's important to cross train, to train yourself in a variety of styles so that you can give your voice flexibility.

[6:01] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: More colors to color with.

[6:01] Gina Morgano: Absolutely, and then in terms of culture and approach, in opera, it very much is voice first. It's all about the vocal technique, and in musical theater, it tends to be acting first. It's more about the storytelling as the primary priority. I think there has been, as we'll see with Gilbert and Sullivan, a lot of blending, and I think we're seeing blending again now, and we've seen it throughout time, but it's very easy for people to sort of pick one and then pigeonhole themselves or others into the box.

[6:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. That's such a good way of saying it. I've often thought of us all in this huge extended family, and if we were to have this big family reunion, this big musical theater family reunion, I'm pretty sure there would have to be this conversation of, are we going to invite the opera people? You know what I mean? Because they're related to us 100%, and also I think that the same goes on the other side. I have felt ostracized many a time by an opera person as not being legit in my musical tastes, but we're all related. We really, really are.

[7:21] Gina Morgano: Yes. I love the idea of one big happy family.

[7:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Well, it's one probably big dysfunctional family with a lot of fighting at Thanksgiving, but we're family nonetheless, and there's got to be love there underneath it all. Now, if we're looking at our family tree of musical theater, I would say at least the grandparents on one side are operetta, if not Gilbert and Sullivan. So how would you describe the difference between opera and operetta?

[7:52] Gina Morgano: Well, okay. This is a loaded question.

[7:56] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is, it is, and we're trying to like, and I know that we could probably do an entire two-hour episode on that, but let's break it down real simple.

[8:02] Gina Morgano: Okay. So, well, the first thing I'll say is every person you ask is going to give you a different answer. Yay. So we can look at it from a variety of angles. The first is, again, are we coming from the operatic side or the musical theater side? Are we coming from the acting and the play side, or are we coming from the classic musical tradition? They're both there. We also have, when we talk about operetta and Gilbert and Sullivan in particular, we have this British comedic opera tradition.

[8:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Which is maybe even its own little subset from operetta?

[8:42] Gina Morgano: Absolutely. But a lot of times people will think of that when they think of operetta. So maybe something like Candide, which is Bernstein that came later, that definitely harkens back to many aspects of Gilbert and Sullivan comedic opera. But then we have things like Showboat and Carousel, which are these serious dramas, but they also come from an operetta tradition where it is classical music, but combined with some popular sensibilities.

[9:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Hmm. That was a great answer. Thank you. Now, in terms of sung through versus dialogue, right? Gilbert and Sullivan has both.

[9:25] Gina Morgano: Yes, they do.

[9:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And do all operetta have both?

[9:31] Gina Morgano: I would say most do. That said, again, it depends on how you're defining operetta. So there could be something that, let's take Les Mis, for instance, right? That's sung through. It is musical theater, for sure. But to me, it also has a lot of classical elements to it.

[9:52] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right. And so now we're getting, thanks to musical theater, into this place of pop opera.

[9:57] Gina Morgano: Yes.

[9:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And where does that fall into the line? Is it more operetta than opera? Is it more opera than operetta? It's interesting because we love classifications and we love representation, but boy, oh boy, when we're talking about these really old traditions and artistic traditions that are constantly blending and evolving and taking influences from artists from all over the world, it gets really, really tricky to draw very, very clear lines.

[10:29] Gina Morgano: Absolutely.

[10:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Do you have any favorite modern musical theater pieces that could also be considered classical pieces? Just wondering.

[10:38] Gina Morgano: The Light in the Piazza comes immediately to mind.

[10:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Of course. Gorgeous. Absolutely.

[10:43] Gina Morgano: I mean, to me, that's classic operetta.

[10:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: 100%. 100%. Well said, Gina Morgano. Okay. So now let's talk about Gilbert and Sullivan themselves.

[10:54] Gina Morgano: Yes.

[10:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: First up, Arthur Sullivan, who wrote the music. He was an English composer. He was kind of one of those kids who was always brilliant, like soloist in the boys' choir, then got into an academy at a very, very young age. His first, I think, full compositions are produced and lauded at the age of 19, right? He's always been a musical genius.

[11:23] Gina Morgano: And I loved what Makoto wrote in that email about how earnest his music is.

[11:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: He's a very empathetic melodist. What do you love about Sullivan's music?

[11:37] Gina Morgano: I love that he puts his own twist on a classic. He, of the duo, personally, I think, obviously, he's the musical side, but he's also that classical lineage side. I mean, he trained in an elite boys' choir. He has been compared to Mozart. He knew his opera.

[12:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Right.

[12:03] Gina Morgano: And yet, he doesn't take it too seriously. He's able to have fun with it, kind of in the way Mozart did as a kid, that little bit of mischievousness.

[12:14] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, exactly. That's so true. How fun. So that idea of in order to bring something new to it, you have to know it to begin with.

[12:24] Gina Morgano: Yes, absolutely. You have to know the rules in order to break them.

[12:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And he partners up with this guy by the name of W.S. Gilbert, Sir William Schwenk Gilbert. And this is the irreverent guy. There is something about his sense of humor and the way that he saw the world that Sullivan really appreciated. And the two work so beautifully together. Gilbert started out as a surgeon in the military, which is insane. And then he was like, you know what? I'm actually much better at writing. He begins writing plays. And I mean, incredibly prolific, wrote over 40 plays in life.

[13:10] Gina Morgano: And his biggest hits were with Sullivan. What's their early stuff? I'm trying to think of their...

[13:18] Jeff Parsons: Well, Thespis.

[13:20] Gina Morgano: That was like the first one, right?

[13:22] Jeff Parsons: Yes, that was 1871, and not much of that survives.

[13:25] Gina Morgano: Okay.

[13:26] Jeff Parsons: Then they collaborated with D'Oyly Carte and Trial by Jury in 1875 was their first collaboration, and that set off the chain of their successful operas.

[13:34] Gina Morgano: And D'Oyly Carte was a successful producer.

[13:40] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[13:42] Gina Morgano: Had a theater company, and they, the three of them, I mean, they kind of become the Stephen Sondheim, Harold Prince of their time, because they're just churning out hit after hit.

[13:54] Jeff Parsons: Yes. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Gilbert also worked as a lawyer for a bit, so he pulled on that for Trial by Jury, that experience.

[14:04] Gina Morgano: Oh, interesting. Oh, cool. I didn't find that. That's interesting. So he's had so many jobs.

[14:11] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[14:12] Gina Morgano: And maybe understands the world from all of these different professions, and then once again, knows the rules well enough in order to be able to break them.

[14:21] Jeff Parsons: What this duo is known for, right off the bat, is creating these Topsy-Turvy worlds. And if anybody hasn't seen the movie called Topsy-Turvy that's all about Gilbert and Sullivan, highly recommend. But what we generally mean by Topsy-Turvy is that they took ridiculous things and mashed them together, and then allowed it to play out very logically and seriously.

[14:52] Gina Morgano: Yes. I love how your listener talked about opposites and opposite harmony, and I think that's such a beautiful phrase to describe this duo.

[15:02] Jeff Parsons: Yes. So they're going to take, in the case of the Pirates of Penzance, an entity that's known as being horrible and unethical, like pirates, and they're going to place them in Penzance, which was known as being a resort town, and very highfalutin, very classy. And so they're pushing these two things together, gentlemen and duty, and then pirates, and then taking it very seriously and presenting it very straight-faced. That is their sense of comedy that kind of goes throughout all of their biggest hits, including HMS Pinafore, the Mikado, and the Pirates of Penzance.

[15:50] Gina Morgano: So the Pirates of Penzance premiered in 1879.

[15:54] Jeff Parsons: 1879!

[15:56] Gina Morgano: Yes.

[15:57] Jeff Parsons: Definitely not from the early 1980s, guys.

[15:59] Gina Morgano: No. In New York, it's their only piece that premiered in the United States, in America.

[16:05] Jeff Parsons: Which is really interesting, because we started this conversation talking about copyrights, and the reason that they started in New York for Pirates of Penzance was because of copyrights.

[16:11] Gina Morgano: Sorry to interrupt you, but keep going. I love this story. It's so great.

[16:20] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. So Pinafore became a big hit in London, and so people started doing it in America, but because, at the time, America didn't have copyright protections for foreigners, people in America would change it. They would change lyrics, and they would put their own spin on it.

[16:39] Gina Morgano: They're literally doing whatever they wanted, and not paying Gilbert and Sullivan a dime.

[16:44] Jeff Parsons: Nope. So Gilbert and Sullivan wanted to get ahead of it, and so they decided, along with D'Oyly Carte, to produce the show in the United States on their own. They brought it to New York, and they actually premiered it in England the day before, in sort of a low-budget version, just to also have the copyright over there, have it premiered over there. And then they premiered it in New York, so that they had complete control. They ran the rehearsals, and they brought over their actors. They did hire some actors from America, as well, to collaborate with them, but they ran a very tight ship, so they had complete creative freedom.

[17:28] Gina Morgano: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, coming to New York is huge at this point, in the late 1800s. It's not just boarding a jet and flying over here. So it's a huge commitment to come over here.

[17:41] Jeff Parsons: They premiere their official production of HMS Pinafore to show the Americans, by the way, this is how you do the show. And while they're doing that, they're writing and revising and editing and rehearsing The Pirates of Penzance. But once again, like you said, there was no agreement between countries to respect the copyright and protect artists. And so even though they wanted to premiere it in America, they still needed the English copyright. So they had their current company of HMS Pinafore, one night, randomly, with kind of scripts in hand, or scores in hand, if you will, go out in their HMS Pinafore costumes and perform The Pirates of Penzance. And I'm sure the audience was like, completely confused. But it was really just an ambush thing in order to make sure that their work was protected in both countries.

[18:44] Gina Morgano: Yes. Fun fact, Sir Arthur Sullivan left his Act One manuscripts for Pirates over in England when they took the boat over.

[18:54] Jeff Parsons: Stop it.

[18:55] Gina Morgano: Yes. So he was literally rewriting Act One from memory and coming up with a couple of new songs because he essentially had to start from scratch.

[19:04] Jeff Parsons: Oh my gosh, that's crazy. And isn't it true also that he incorporated parts of Thespis, like running over Rocky Mountains, which by the way, I can sing and not have to pay for because it was written in the 1800s. But there are little pieces of Thespis in The Pirates of Penzance.

[19:22] Gina Morgano: Yes. And it's really interesting because there is a question about when Pirates of Penzance takes place. At the beginning of the show, they mentioned that it is Frederick's birthday. And later it's revealed that he was born on Leap Day. So that would make it February 29th. However, in Climbing Over Rocky Mountain, it talks about the summer.

[19:50] Jeff Parsons: Oh, true.

[19:52] Gina Morgano: So does it take place in February or in the summer?

[19:57] Jeff Parsons: Okay, that is a good question. Or is it actually the summer, but they're just now realizing the whole birthday thing and it doesn't have anything to do with February? You know what I mean?

[20:08] Gina Morgano: But they did mention that it's his birthday, I believe. I'm pretty sure.

[20:12] Jeff Parsons: Okay, so I would love to say that all of their, you know, time and energy put into protecting the copyright worked. However, it was still kind of the Wild West of theater producing, and it didn't. But Pirates of Penzance was a huge hit, both critically and publicly. And I think that there is something to really be said about the power of operetta in that way. Because it is maybe a little bit more populist. Opera tends to be pretty heavy, very tragic. A lot of people die. And operetta doesn't take itself too seriously. And diehard purists may look down upon that. But boy, oh boy, I don't. And it's the same in all art forms. You know, how many times has a comedy won Best Picture at the Oscars? Not often. It's always the dramas that get taken more seriously.

[21:10] Gina Morgano: It's so true. I will never understand why Reese Witherspoon was not nominated for Legally Blonde.

[21:17] Jeff Parsons: Hello. That is a great. That's a that's a great call.

[21:21] Gina Morgano: Iconic, but talking about Gilbert and Sullivan and the popular music and theater of the time, we have to remember that this came from the Offenbach operetta tradition.

[21:29] Jeff Parsons: OK, so help me understand what that means.

[21:39] Gina Morgano: OK, so Jacques Offenbach was a German born French composer. He later wrote The Tales of Hoffman, the opera.

[21:47] Jeff Parsons: OK.

[21:47] Gina Morgano: But he was known for writing more than 100 operettas.

[21:51] Jeff Parsons: Oh, wow.

[21:52] Gina Morgano: So operetta really came from the French, but he was writing burlesque. And it's not burlesque necessarily how we would think of like Gypsy Rose Lee, but it was risque. It was more he wrote Orpheus in the Underworld, which is where the can-can comes from. So all the can-can girls.

[22:12] Jeff Parsons: So he would premiere these shows.

[22:15] Gina Morgano: Fascinating. That came from operetta?

[22:18] Jeff Parsons: Yes.

[22:18] Gina Morgano: So wow, I had no idea. That's so cool. OK, keep going.

[22:24] Jeff Parsons: He would premiere these shows in Paris and then bring them to London. And in a way, they were popular. However, they were risque. And so the upper crust British did not like them. The theater was considered kind of seedy and bawdy. It was not something that you would take your families to. But this also coincided with the advent of the railroad. And people were now coming to downtown London and able to come in for the night or for the weekend and bringing their families. And so they needed entertainment. So it really came at an opportune time for Gilbert and Sullivan. And Gilbert and Sullivan were a solution to this dilemma that people liked the burlesque-esque operetta of Offenbach in terms of its fun nature and the songs, but they wanted something that was more wholesome and more family friendly.

[23:21] Gina Morgano: Wow. And I mean, they succeeded in it, too, because here you have the bevy of maidens who are kind of making fun of the fact that, we're going to show our feet. But then at the same time, everybody's covered up. So it is still family friendly. You're making fun of it and doing it at the same time.

[23:42] Jeff Parsons: Yes. And that's the thing with Gilbert and Sullivan is that it's satire. And so often that gets lost because, I mean, it's true. It's from the 1800s, right? So there is misogyny and racism and all of these things that like today would not fly. However, at the time, it was written in a spirit of satire. So they, in the Mikado, for instance, they were not making fun of the Japanese. They were making fun of the British.

[24:15] Gina Morgano: And how they viewed the Japanese.

[24:17] Jeff Parsons: Exactly. Although, you know, of course, today there are considerations that need to be made as we put on these shows.

[24:24] Gina Morgano: 100%. 100%. That brings us to a really interesting point in the conversation, which is how do these things age? And in the case of the Pirates of Penzance, it had a huge second life. In the early 1980s, we already had the tradition of Shakespeare in the Park.

[24:44] Jeff Parsons: Yeah. In Central Park that was spearheaded by Joseph Papp, who we've talked about in the chorus line, a legendary producer. And what was it? Was it 1981?

[24:55] Gina Morgano: I believe it was 1981.

[24:58] Jeff Parsons: He decides to forego Shakespeare and instead do Gilbert and Sullivan, in particular, the Pirates of Penzance.

[25:07] Gina Morgano: And doing the Pirates of Penzance in the middle of Central Park with a couple of honestly pop stars in Linda Ronstadt, who was a famous recording artist at the time, Rex Smith, who at that point was kind of a bubblegum pop teen idol. Then you also had Kevin Kline, who was a famous actor, but not necessarily known for opera or operetta. And doing a whole new take on the orchestrations. There was not a single violin to be had. It was all synth. So really taking an interesting new look at the Pirates of Penzance, but not updating it, not modernizing it in any way. But there were just these little elements that brought it to a whole new audience.

[26:00] Jeff Parsons: And was it a success?

[26:02] Gina Morgano: Yes, it actually, they did it in the park at the Delacorte, and then it transferred to Broadway, and then they filmed it. They went to London to film it in 83. Not only did it go to Broadway, it went to Broadway at the Eurus, which is now the Gershwin Theater, one of the.

[26:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Biggest houses on Broadway and had no problem filling that huge theatre for a couple of years. It got across the board raving reviews, won many Tony Awards. I think it's one of the big reasons why best revival of a musical is even a thing now. Kevin Kline, I mean it really cements Kevin Kline's star power because he was so sexy and clownish at the same time. And then like you said they turned it into a film with most of the same cast which kind of disappears, but I remember seeing it when I was little. I think that was the first time I had seen The Pirates of Penzance was that movie version. When did you see it? Or have you done it?

[26:59] Gina Morgano: I saw it probably in college for the first time.

[27:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mm-hmm.

[27:07] Gina Morgano: And Angela Lansbury played Ruth in the movie.

[27:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I know it's not a great casting.

[27:15] Gina Morgano: That's awesome casting. It was really interesting because once again talking about copyrights, right before the movie version of The Pirates of Penzance came out, the pirate movie came out. Have you do you remember this?

[27:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, the pirate movie?

[27:30] Gina Morgano: I'm gonna hold on. I'm gonna look this up. I wasn't gonna talk about this on the episode, but it was like a 1982 Australian musical romantic comedy film. Thank you, Wikipedia. Loosely based on Gilbert and Sullivan's 1879 comic opera The Pirates of Penzance, but once again because it's like public domain they could come out with this and do their own thing even while The Pirates of Penzance was actually being filmed in the way that it was done on Broadway. So it was like it was too much saturation and both films kind of flopped. It's interesting because when Pirates was originally written, pirate stories were very popular.

[28:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Mm-hmm.

[28:14] Gina Morgano: And I don't know if this is fact, but I always thought that Captain Hook was inspired by the Pirate King.

[28:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Interesting.

[28:24] Gina Morgano: Kind of the foppish idea of what a pirate is.

[28:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't see why not. All right, where are we now before we head into talking through the show? Where are we now with pirates?

[28:39] Gina Morgano: I don't think it's in the same realm as The Mikado in terms of the trickiness of being produced nowadays, but our other listener Sophie was correct. I was seeing it produced pretty consistently in regional theaters throughout the 90s and even into the early 2000s, but it has kind of all but disappeared. Maybe because the audience who loves it and knows it has passed away?

[29:10] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Question mark. What do you think?

[29:14] Gina Morgano: That's interesting because there are a lot of organizations that are super passionate about Gilbert and Sullivan today and a lot of that's true. I know one in Southern California.

[29:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, I have a couple of friends who are going to the International Gilbert and Sullivan Festival in England this week. It's always the first week of August.

[29:33] Gina Morgano: Oh my gosh, the first week of August. And there are companies. I was living in San Francisco. There's Lamplighters Music Theater and Pittsburgh now the Savoy Yards in New York. There are the Blue Hill Troop, which does Gilbert and Sullivan and there are other Gilbert and Sullivan companies that specialize in this material and there's a lot of young people in the companies.

[30:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So, I don't know why that's really cool.

[30:07] Gina Morgano: Yeah, I don't know why some of the more mainstream places are not doing these pieces more frequently because there are a lot of young people who are very passionate about it.

[30:17] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: This is interesting. This gets me thinking because I was the other day as I was preparing for this episode, I started thinking about our current trend of producing musical revivals, which is from a place of accountability looking at what sorts of messaging comes from these stories for better or worse and taking looks at them that might make reparations, but also that might send the message that we want into the world. Is that a fair way of saying it?

[30:48] Gina Morgano: Yes, for sure.

[30:50] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: There is a lot of consideration that has to be had when doing Gilbert and Sullivan in order to do it for a modern audience.

[30:57] Gina Morgano: Yeah, yeah.

[30:58] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So it makes sense that there would be these preservation societies who actually have to narrow their mission statement a little bit because it requires so much effort and focus to celebrate the work in a way that is both palatable and respectful to the artists and the audiences and it makes me wonder if musical theater as I know it might go a little bit in that direction eventually as well.

[31:25] Gina Morgano: We may need more sorts of preservation societies instead of regional theaters.

[31:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It might not be a regional theater's responsibility to keep the classics alive.

[31:37] Gina Morgano: That's very interesting.

[31:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: You know, I wonder if eventually we'll kind of go in that same direction instead of feeling the responsibility to revamp and redo all of the classics if it may then go to another group that's a little bit more specialized.

[31:55] Gina Morgano: That is fascinating. I don't know. It's just an idea.

[31:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It is really interesting to think about and I think with a lot of these classics you can look at them through multiple lenses and the lens that you look at it through determines how palatable it is to a modern audience.

[32:15] Gina Morgano: Hmm.

[32:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: But the fact that you have to make that lens clear to your audience and that you have to do that work versus just putting the work out there and everybody automatically getting it and understanding it and not being offended sets the bar higher.

[32:29] Gina Morgano: Yeah, it's a hurdle.

[32:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it requires effort. Oh, interesting stuff. I could talk about this for a long time, but we need to keep going. So let's talk through the show. We're gonna start at the top of it and work our way through. Feel free to sing anything and everything, Gina. We begin with this merry band of pirates and right from the get-go, I mean Gilbert and Sullivan are a master class in establishing tone from the top because what is this first song called?

[32:57] Gina Morgano: Pour the sherry now.

[32:59] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I am NOT a drinker as listeners of the podcast may remember, but I do know one thing about alcohol and that is that sherry is a drink for very fancy people with very tiny little cups and maybe have their pinkies out while they're drinking it. So the fact that this big group of pirates is coming and singing a drinking song about sherry is establishing the comedy and tone of this show.

[33:30] Gina Morgano: Yes, absolutely. And you know, it's funny as you mentioned before that Penzance is a seaside resort town, right? What are pirates doing?

[33:38] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Getting a tan.

[33:41] Gina Morgano: And they are just the merriest bunch of pirates that you'll ever meet. They have an apprentice by the name of Frederick and he's graduating at this point from his apprenticeship, his internship if you will.

[33:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[33:53] Gina Morgano: And the reason that he is he was an apprentice to pirates is because of his childhood maid by the name of Ruth. And Ruth, she'll tell you she's really good at her job, but she has kind of one fatal flaw and that is her sense of hearing. She can't hear very well and her job in raising young Frederick was to get him involved in an apprenticeship as a pilot. A pilot that didn't go well because when she met the pirates she thought that they said pilots and thus chaos ensued and now for the past what, 19 years he's had to be a pirate because she couldn't hear.

[34:49] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, so I think it was his 18th birthday he's supposed to be out of his indentured servitude.

[34:54] Gina Morgano: Indentured servitude, exactly. And by the way, this operetta has like the tagline or the subtitle "Slave of Duty" and duty is the word that keeps coming up over and over again, particularly for Frederick. I was wrong. It's his 21st birthday.

[35:16] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh goodness. He is a man.

[35:19] Gina Morgano: Yes.

[35:22] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Okay, being a robust gentleman like that, he is ready to leave the pirates and find himself a lady friend. And when they leave the pirate ship, much to the disdain of the pirate king who says it is a marvelous thing to be a pirate king. Ruth says, "Frederick, I'm a woman. Why not go with the devil you know? You don't know about women but you know me and I love you and this works out really well for me." And he's like, "Oh, well, I mean, yes, you are a wonderful woman. But like are you beautiful? I've never seen another woman." And she's like, "No, I'm really hot babe. Like don't worry. I've been called very beautiful in my time. Granted, it was probably 20 or 30 years ago." But she's really kind of selling this whole thing to him. Enter a bevy of young maidens.

[36:17] Gina Morgano: Yeah, and then when he sees what a woman looks like who's his own age, he says, "Oh, false one, you have deceived me."

[36:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's kind of the opening of the whole show is Frederick getting free from these pirates. Do you have any favorite moments here?

[36:33] Gina Morgano: I love Ruth's number.

[36:39] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, and my lot and pirate.

[36:44] Gina Morgano: Yes. It's so funny. But also it is so sad.

[36:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: No, really. And I think this is where some of the misogyny comes in because it's poking fun at an older woman, sure, but also like she is aware of her mistake. She didn't hear correctly and she made this major mistake and she's owning up to it and then you know, all the dominoes fall for the rest of the story.

[37:13] Gina Morgano: No, you're so right and she's a total kook. She knows it. She's the one right from the get-go. It's like I'm good at my job, but I have a fatal flaw here and it has changed our lives immeasurably.

[37:28] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, and also I think that there's a sadness to the fact that obviously she wants to get off the boat, right? I mean, she doesn't want to be left with a pirate. So that's what she's like, "Choose me, Frederick! Like I'll go with you." But also there is something to being an older woman and either being told you're not beautiful or questioning your beauty. And so I just think there's a lot to think about with her experience.

[38:00] Gina Morgano: That's a good point and something, thank you for bringing this to our minds, not just my mind but everyone listening. The idea that Ruth has given up her entire life to look after this boy and so if she is no longer a young beauty, it's because of her own sense of duty of doing her job and taking care of this kid.

[38:19] Gina Morgano: Yeah, absolutely.

[38:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: And also, you know the hit song "I am, you know, I am a pirate king" and that's the pirate sense of duty because Frederick said, "Well, you know, come and give up this life." He said, "No, no, this is my duty. I am a pirate king." Now the pirates, in addition to being a gentleman who drink sherry, are also not great at their jobs according to Frederick. Frederick says he feels very torn because once he leaves the pirate ship, he knows that his great quest in life is going to be to destroy them because they are pirates. But he also tells them at the same time though, "Maybe you should all just stop being pirates because then I won't have to destroy you and you're also not very good at it anyway."

[39:07] Gina Morgano: You never attack anybody that's less than you, like you never punch down, which good for them. And number two, if you run into anybody and they say that they are an orphan, you refuse to kill them and that had the word has spread and so now every ship that they try and take over these...

[39:28] Gina Morgano: The entire crew just says, "We're orphans," and they're like, "Oh, okay, well, we don't want to destroy orphans because we ourselves are orphans and we don't want that hanging on our souls, our consciences," which is just so sweet, but also like so not pirate-like. They do have hearts, right? They're pirates. But I think they go hard. Yes, I think that's also why The Pirates of Penzance is so fun is because they're lovable pirates.

[39:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes.

[39:58] Gina Morgano: So now Frederick is looking at all of these beauties. He introduces himself with a gorgeous song. I mean, my gosh, oh, is there not one maiden breast? So beautiful, stunning song. And what he's saying in the song to all of these women is, is there any one of you beautiful maidens that would be willing to be with me? FYI, I've been a pirate. I just want you to know that because duty, and they all say, nope, none of us. Sorry, we're not down with that. And then he says, "Okay, well, are there any ugly ones then?" Because this is how badly I want a lady. And they say, nope, none of those either. You are not welcome here. Then appears one of their sisters by the name of Mabel. And she says, "I'm down to clown."

[40:52] Yes, and Mabel sees his goodness and believes that he can change and be redeemed, and, you know, it's just beautiful that she is willing to give him this chance. Cue one of the most popular or, I guess, well-known songs in the entire show, "Poor Wandering One."

[41:11] Yes. And, you know, here is a prime example of Sir Arthur Sullivan taking the popular opera traditions, Donizetti and Bel Canto, which was the earlier part of the 1800s and going into the Romantic period and writing this aria for Mabel. It goes up to a high E flat. It is extremely difficult to sing. And I would say, yeah, it's probably the most it is the most challenging number in the score, perhaps in all of Gilbert and Sullivan. And it's really interesting that a pop singer, Linda Ronstadt, was cast in this role. And, you know, a lot has been said about, you know, the singing and her singing. I'll just say that I am a ginormous Linda Ronstadt fan. I adore her. Amazing.

[42:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, absolutely.

[42:05] Gina Morgano: I think she did an incredible job. But she did sing it in a different tone than someone who was trained fully as an opera singer would sing it. And granted, there are also places in that in that 80s revival where she is belting her brains out on top of singing "Poor Wandering One." Like it's an incredibly versatile performance.

[42:30] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Absolutely.

[42:31] Gina Morgano: And we also have to remember Linda Ronstadt, badass hippie playing Mabel, which brings me to I think Mabel's a really interesting character and can absolutely be played as stupid and doe-eyed, you know, and I unfortunately have seen that. I think she's a fascinating human being because she above all of these women is willing to be like, "I can handle this situation." She's kind of a boss.

[42:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: She really is.

[42:58] Gina Morgano: I mean, she speaks up and I know we didn't get to act two yet, but she speaks up in act two and she goes after what she wants. And she says it out loud and in very grandiose ways.

[43:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, she is not afraid to let her voice be heard.

[43:14] Gina Morgano: No. Frederick and Mabel immediately hit it off. The sisters, which I get they're all sisters. I guess I didn't say that at the beginning. All the sisters are letting them have their space, but also kind of want to hear exactly what's going on because they want the tea. And in that moment is when the pirates sneak on and capture them all. And because they are the gentle pirates, they say, "Ha ha, we've captured these maidens and now we will marry them and have happy, beautiful families."

[43:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Very different than most pirates.

[43:50] Gina Morgano: Very different indeed. And then it is discovered that these are not any maidens.

[43:55] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, exactly.

[43:57] Gina Morgano: These sisters drop the bomb that their father is none other than the modern major general himself, a general in the British Army. And here he comes right now. Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

[44:12] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, this song, the modern major general is maybe one of the most iconic pieces of theater ever.

[44:20] Gina Morgano: For sure.

[44:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: It has been referenced in popular culture time and time again.

[44:27] Gina Morgano: It's referenced in Hamilton.

[44:29] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Hamilton literally says, "I am the very model of a modern." Wait, I got to say it again. It literally says, "I am the very model of a modern major general."

[44:39] Gina Morgano: Yeah, absolutely. Did the patter song begin before this? Like, I don't know HMS Pinafore that well. Do do these types of patter songs exist in other works? And if you don't know, that's totally fine.

[44:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't recall specifically in Pinafore, but I do believe that the actor who was playing the modern major general excelled at patter songs. So therefore, I do believe that they did exist before. Now, of course, the patter song all by itself. It's one of the core pieces of musical theater writing.

[45:15] Gina Morgano: Yes, absolutely. We covered Lady in the Dark early this year and Tchaikovsky is a patter song. You've got trouble in Music Man, which would also be considered a patter song, and I guess the inevitable question is, would rap have found its way into musical theater without the patter song?

[45:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I would like to believe, yes, but because we have this long history of it in the art form, there was already a door open for sure.

[45:46] Gina Morgano: Personally, I do not know enough about the history of rap, but it seems just such an obvious connection and lineage. I mean, just again, using Hamilton as the example, Lin-Manuel Miranda is referencing so many classic musical theater pieces in the modern style of rap.

[46:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, it's just such a perfect blend and perfect fit.

[46:12] Gina Morgano: Yeah, completely. So everybody is in awe of this modern major general and his wit and the way that he is able to find a rhyme for just about anything. These lyrics are just some of the most clever things you'll ever hear. In addition to, you know, in short and matters, vegetable, animal and mineral, I am the very model of a modern major general. Then I can hum a fugue of which I've heard the music's din afore and whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore. So they were they were referencing themselves and saying, "Aren't we all sick of that show HMS Pinafore that they wrote?"

[47:00] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I love it again.

[47:01] Gina Morgano: Yes, it's so brilliant. And just being able to poke fun at yourself and not take yourself too seriously, it's amazing. OK, so moving on, the pirates are like, "OK, well, we will overtake you general because we really want to marry your daughters." And he says, "OK, but you can't kill me because I'm an orphan." And they're like, "No, he's an orphan." And towards the end of this first act is "Hail Poetry," which the pirates sing. And as I was listening to it yesterday, reminds me a lot of Cats.

[47:34] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, tell me more.

[47:35] Gina Morgano: OK, so there's that big section in Cats, both in the very, very beginning and at the very end where they are very ceremonious about this is how you address a cat and you call us by this name. And then also, if you want to give us a dish of cream and some salmon paste, like, please do so because we are cats. And musically, the styling is very much straight out of "Hail Poetry."

[48:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: The ridiculousness of cats being very, very proper is almost identical to the pirates themselves being very, very proper and appreciating poetry on this level.

[48:16] Gina Morgano: I do not know this for certain, but I can't help but feel like listening to Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber was inspired by Gilbert and Sullivan for those sections.

[48:25] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Amazing. I'll have to listen to it again.

[48:28] Gina Morgano: Yeah. Something that's interesting about "Hail Poetry" is that it's used as an anthem often in these Gilbert and Sullivan societies; they will sing "Hail Poetry" as no way, like their alma mater.

[48:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Oh, I love that.

[48:45] Gina Morgano: That's so great. So the first act ends with the modern major general being saved because he's an orphan. By the way, he's not an orphan. And the pirates feeling good about their sense of duty and Mabel and Frederick are together. And then we come back to see what happens.

[49:02] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. And there are I would say in the show, there are three major miscommunications. The first was Ruth mistaking pilot pilot pilot for pirates. And the second is there's a play on the word orphan versus often.

[49:20] Gina Morgano: Oh my gosh, you're so right. That is such a brilliant little scene. I mean, it's like classic comedy that Gilbert wrote.

[49:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Definitely like a who's on first type classic comedy.

[49:29] Gina Morgano: And then what's number three?

[49:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Is it number three?

[49:33] Gina Morgano: Yes, number three is coming up with the reveal of the contract in that there was confusion because Frederick thought that he could he would be relieved of his indentured servitude, he would graduate that on his twenty first year. And it turns out that the contract specifically states his twenty first birthday. And being that Frederick was born on a leap day, February 29th.

[50:04] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. He still has many more birthdays to go.

[50:07] Gina Morgano: Yes. It's like sixty three more years. Yes. With this band of pirates and they're like, "Aha, see, you're still part of us." Why do they want him back in? You know, that's a great, great question. I'm going to go with a duty. I'm going to go with they are being very specific to the contract that was signed. These are honest pirates.

[50:31] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, that's true.

[50:33] Gina Morgano: This is what we have taught you, Frederick, that you are meant to fulfill your duty and this is it.

[50:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. And, you know, a little sidetrack here is going back to the fact that this is political satire. And so we're talking about the aristocracy and the noble class and the duty, the duties that they have and are these politicians honest? Right. Or even just the ridiculousness of what you see as your duty and how far will you go to, like, have that nobility trap?

[51:13] Gina Morgano: Yes, absolutely. Where you're like, "No, no, I am good because I'm doing this." And you're like, "But is the world better for it?"

[51:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: I don't think so. Maybe not.

[51:23] Gina Morgano: Right. I mean, it's so true. I can think of my own life of times where, quick side note, my boss wanted me to get her some coffee cream from Starbucks. And I was like, "But I didn't buy coffee." She was like, "Gina, just pour some cream."

[51:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that's so funny.

[51:39] Gina Morgano: They're like, "But no, I can't."

[51:42] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, that's really funny.

[51:43] Gina Morgano: Absolutely. I think definitely when I was younger, I was such a musical theater purist and felt like it was sacrilegious to bend in any way, shape or form in terms of the art form. And then I realized, do we want to die on that hill or do we want musical theater to survive? And it's like, yeah, what hill do you want to die on?

[52:15] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, the other thing that's happening right here at the top of Act Two is that the major general is really coming to terms with his dishonesty because he is not an orphan and he feels really bad about telling the pirates that he was one. Yes, he is just beating himself up about it. He's so torn and he's.

[53:07] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: We've talked a lot about on the podcast and is famous for just iconic pieces of staging and should be much more well known than she is. She did Ragtime and Once on this Island and many, many others. She choreographed this show and staged the policemen as though they were keystone cops from silent movies, which brought this whole new sense of comedy and physical wackiness to the second act. It's a big rush of energy that I think has been copied, speaking of copyright, in most productions since then. So, go Grazie on finding a really iconic way to stage these policemen in the second act. The other thing to say about these policemen is that they're not very good policemen. Is anybody good at their jobs? But they're good at duty and that's what's important. You might be able to knock them over with a sneeze. How about that? Yes, you might be able to knock them over with a sneeze.

[54:08] Gina Morgano: Because Frederick sees the logic in this whole leap year debacle, he agrees to go back with the pirates and rejoin them. And he has to break the news to Mabel. She pleads with him to stay, but he's bound by his duty. The consolation prize is that they agree to be faithful to each other until his actual 21st birthday, which is absolutely ridiculous when you think about when that's going to happen. Yes. And I will just say, this is my very favorite part of the show.

[54:41] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Tell me.

[54:41] Gina Morgano: Oh, Here is Love and Here is Truth? Yes. There's three songs in a row. Stay Frederick, Stay. I'll Leave Me Not to Pine. Oh, Here is Love and Here is Truth. And that is the section where Mabel is begging Frederick to stay and that she sings this beautiful love song and then they sing the duet together. It is just, to me, it's like a moment of stillness in a different way than Hale poetry, but it's just so romantic and beautiful.

[55:08] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So romantic. You're absolutely right.

[55:15] Gina Morgano: Okay, so now Mabel says, and this is when she really starts taking charge. She tells the police that they need to go alone to face the pirates. The police then all hide to wait for the pirates to come. The pirates do. They come onto the estate of the modern major general to take over and to revenge the lie because who told them that he wasn't an orphan? Was that a Ruth thing? I don't remember.

[55:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah. Well, in any case, the pirates found out. And so now they're back to take their revenge and also take their wives. And they are creeping up onto this estate with cat-like tread. And the joke here is that this song is the most loud and boisterous and has this pageantry of choreography. There is nothing silent or cat-like about their approach. They could not be making more noise.

[56:22] Gina Morgano: Well, we literally have a rollicking band of pirates a week.

[56:27] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, right. Yeah, totally. Exactly.

[56:31] Gina Morgano: Yeah. It's just funny. The policemen and the pirates, on one hand, you couldn't think of two groups of people, again, like more opposites. And yet they are so similar.

[56:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So now the pirates are there, the policemen are there, and thus begins this thing that happens in musical theater, which I love, which is a chase scene. Boy, oh boy, do I love a chase scene. It all culminates in this strategy that the main police officer, the sergeant, has, which is to demand that the pirates stop in the name of Queen Victoria. And of course, the pirates overcome with their sense of duty and loyalty to the queen. They do.

[57:16] Gina Morgano: And that's when Ruth appears and reveals that these pirates are not just orphans, but these are noblemen who have gone wrong.

[57:26] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Now, here's a question. Are they actually noblemen?

[57:30] Gina Morgano: Well, this is a great point. Is this Ruth lying to save everybody, or is this true? Because the general says, the modern major general says, I pray you pardon me, ex-pirate king. Peers will be peers, and youth will have its fling. Resume your ranks and legislative duties, and take my daughters, all of whom are beauties.

[57:54] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So the general believes that they are noblemen, and says, oh, well, then we actually have a lot in common. And so then the finale is the entire cast singing Poor Wandering Ones. They have all been lost in some way, and yet they have found their way because of their great sense of duty. Now, that comes to your point, which is to ask, is any of it true?

[58:20] Gina Morgano: Who knows? I don't know.

[58:21] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Who knows? But if it wasn't true, I think that the pirates would have to fess up to it. To me, it does, it tracks, it makes sense that these were noblemen who had decided that they instead wanted to become pirates, but they couldn't ever quite shed the indoctrination of what being a nobleman meant. And maybe there is something there that Gilbert and Sullivan are looking at and poking at, which is once a hick, always a hick. I'm from the country, and as much as I feel like I'm a city mouse, deep down, I'm always that little boy who constantly had hay down his shirt and hated it. We are who we are.

[59:09] Gina Morgano: Yes, and I think that would make sense why these pirates have this deep sense of duty and devotion to duty, even if they were separated at birth, right? But who we are, if that is the lineage that they came from with this nobility and presumably this noble obedience to duty, then it all would track.

[59:32] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yeah, and just going even further with that, if they are all, in fact, orphans, does that mean that there wasn't a place in society for them as noblemen to be who they are, and therefore they felt like they had to become pirates?

[59:47] Gina Morgano: It's really interesting.

[59:48] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That meant that they didn't have any money, probably any inheritance, possibly, because they didn't have any parents. And so now you have these noblemen with no money, so what are you going to do? Well, I guess we'll create a band of merry pirates and we'll steal, but in our core we're still noblemen and we still operate under these rules, so we're really bad pirates? You know what I mean? It's a really, like you said, a very satirical look at what we create within our societies.

[1:00:22] Gina Morgano: Yes, and I think that like any great piece of art, there are a lot of deep questions inherent in it, even though this is a comedy, even though it's really silly, it's a comedic satire, but you have to look at the satire. What are they really saying? What are they really talking about? What questions are they really asking?

[1:00:45] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Gina, thank you so much for doing this with me.

[1:00:47] Gina Morgano: Thank you for having me. It's been so fun chatting with you.

[1:00:51] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes, I want to do more of these types of episodes and thank you for making it less scary for me.

[1:00:59] Gina Morgano: I just want to ask you a question. Why was it scary?

[1:01:03] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Oh, yeah, so I would say for a couple of reasons. Just in terms of experience of shows that I've either seen or participated in as an actor, not a lot of operas, not a lot of operettas.

[1:01:20] Gina Morgano: And then the other thing is that this show, I want to be historically accurate as much as it can be and entertaining. And I think that when you're doing that with a genre or with a sub-genre of musical theater that can often be looked at as boring or just falsely accused of being boring and unrelatable and old, it feels a little more daunting. So that's probably what I mean in terms of being a little scared by it. Do you have students that feel that way as well? I assume so.

[1:01:57] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: For sure. I think that there's something about classical music or more classical music that just feels removed. It's just not as familiar. And when you're not as familiar, not as comfortable. And so there's a learning curve. I even felt that way a little bit about going to ballet class where I respected it and wanted to do it. But there was an intimidation that I felt like I wasn't wanted or valued or wasn't going to do it good enough.

[1:02:30] Gina Morgano: I would assume that you run into that as a teacher with vocal students. How do you approach that?

[1:02:36] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Yes. Well, as an actor, there's something that I like to do when I'm preparing a piece or a role, and that's to look at the similarities and differences. And what I found is that if my initial impressions are that the piece or the character are very similar to me, then I have to lean into the differences. And if my initial impression is that there are more differences than similarities, then I need to find those similarities and use that as a weigh-in.

[1:03:08] Gina Morgano: Beautiful.

[1:03:09] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: So I love doing that with my students as well, is to show them what they are already capable of technically, what they may already listen to or sing that has elements that are in these older works, and also just look at the story and what can they pull from their own identity and their own experience that they can relate to.

[1:03:36] Gina Morgano: That's fantastic. Sounds like you're a good teacher, Gina. Congratulations.

[1:03:43] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you. That's amazing.

[1:03:46] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: As always, if you have recommendations for shows you'd like us to cover, just like Makoto and Sophie, you can always email me at amusicalpodcastatgmail.com. Don't forget to follow us on social media on Twitter and Instagram at Amusical Podcast. We also are on TikTok. We have a TeePublic store where any of the profits that we receive from the designs, many of which are by listeners now, will be donated to Broadway Cares Equity Fights AIDS. We have Patreon! Where for only one dollar a month, you will receive bonus content and episodes. I have some really exciting ones coming up that I'm really, really proud of. We also have our account on Spotify where we always update our playlists to include songs from all of the shows that we've covered. Oh my gosh, there are just so many ways to connect in this great podcast community. I hope that you share it with others because it's something that I am super grateful for.

[1:04:43] Gina Morgano: Hey, Miss Gina, how do we follow you and everything that you're up to?

[1:04:43] Gina Morgano: You can find me at GinaMorgano.com and at Gina Morgano on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. I also have my podcast, The Practice Parlor. We might be going through a title change by the time this airs, but you can find my podcast on my website if the title does change. You can email me, Gina at GinaMorgano.com. I would love to hear from you.

[1:05:11] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: That's fantastic. Thank you so much for doing this with me.

[1:05:15] Gina Morgano: Just couldn't be lovelier. Thank you.

[1:05:18] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Thank you so much, Jeff.

[1:05:20] Jeffrey Scott Parsons: Everybody out there, thank you for listening. Remember, it is a glorious thing to be a pirate king.